BPD thwarts understanding of their own issues?

[mssalty]

My PWBPD is going to counseling for other issues and has seen many different people.  They don’t understand why their issues aren’t improving. 

What I’ve noticed is that when the issues are talked about, they tend to want to justify their feelings and issues rather than tackle them.  Rather than understand what’s going on, they take the therapy itself as worthless because ultimately the problem can’t be internal to them or their thinking.  It has to have an external cause.   

When they ask me for opinions and help, they are rejected if I broach the idea that there may be flawed thinking involved. 

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[Under The Bridge]

Rather than understand what’s going on, they take the therapy itself as worthless because ultimately the problem can’t be internal to them or their thinking.  It has to have an external cause.

That's 100% the whole problem isn't it? If they think they're never at fault or the main contributors to the chaos it's impossible to get them to change their thoughts. My exBPD would never have gone to any kind of therapy because, in her own often-used words, she was doing nothing wrong while the whole world shi**ed on her all the time.

Trying to explain that the entire world can't be against her and she is the common denominator in all the life-long chaos with her family, workplace, friends, previous partners and me was just impossible.

Yet having said all that, some posters here say that their partner has actually acknowledged they have a problem and taken some responsibility. All well and good but of course once the BPD kicks in full flow they're back to their 'never at fault' thinking.

I hope things do improve for you, it's such a powerless feeling when we can't get through to them and make them see.

[Pook075]

I agree competely with Under.  There's no "honest" answer here to give to that type of question. 

It makes me think of when my wife asks me, "Do this dress make me look fat?"  I have a clear, instant answer that I can give and if she looks great, I tell her.  But what if she doesn't?  What's the "real" answer she's looking for?  That's too much thinking for me and I always say that it looks just fine, regardless.

A BPD will improve once they're ready to look within.  From our group expeirences, I think that only happens when life gets so utterly terrible, getting help actually feels like the best option.  Until then, therapy is used as a sounding board to talk endlessly about the lousy people in their live and how nobody supports them emotionally.

So in a way, your BPD person is right- the therapy is basically worthless until they actually want to contribute.  But even then, they get to talk out their problems and it makes them feel somewhat better.  That's some value at least.

[mssalty]

The worst part is that they constantly want my help and when I try to honestly help, even in ways sensitive to their own fragile thought process, I immediately get stopped, talked over, or hear a “yeah, but”.   

They want my help, but the reality is they want validation of the very things they claim to want to try to get over. 

[Pook075]

The worst part is that they constantly want my help and when I try to honestly help, even in ways sensitive to their own fragile thought process, I immediately get stopped, talked over, or hear a “yeah, but”.   

They want my help, but the reality is they want validation of the very things they claim to want to try to get over. 

Think about it this way.  If I say to you, "Help me lose weight," there's many ways you can respond.  And I think the only way you give an appropriate answer is to think about, "Why's he asking the question to begin with?"

When you're asked for help, your BPD is looking for understanding first and foremost.  And you should be able to give that since you know what it's like to feel frustrated or stressed.

And I get it, focusing on "feelings" doesn't actually solve the problem.  It makes them feel better in the moment.  But what if the actual problem, why they're ranting on and on about their terrible life, is the perspective they have from their feelings? 

Then you can give a great bit of help just listening and showing compassion.

It's very easy to want to fix someone else's problems by telling them everything they're doing wrong.  Even without the mental illness aspect, what we say can do more harm than good if we're not careful with our words and intentions.  And I'm not saying that you're doing that, but try to keep that in perspective anyway.  Dealing with BPD is a marathon, not a sprint.

[ForeverDad]

It's very easy to want to fix someone else's problems by telling them everything they're doing wrong.  Even without the mental illness aspect, what we say can do more harm than good if we're not careful with our words and intentions...  Dealing with BPD is a marathon, not a sprint.

This is a reminder for us all that Borderline traits, just like the other PD traits, are simply extremes of traits that everyone has - every single one of us. They're simply unbalanced traits, whether by too much or by too little, from the norms of productive lives and perceptions.

[Me88]

The worst part is that they constantly want my help and when I try to honestly help, even in ways sensitive to their own fragile thought process, I immediately get stopped, talked over, or hear a “yeah, but”.   

They want my help, but the reality is they want validation of the very things they claim to want to try to get over. 

They need our help. But we inevitably help them 'incorrectly' and they lash out. I always asked mine what she was looking for, how and what I could do to help. She literally would say she didn't know. And that meant she didn't feel heard and I was invalidating her emotions and reality.

She just wanted validation. For even the craziest of things. I would tell her, 'your version of being heard or validated is you being able to treat me like human garbage and just accept whatever accusations you make about me'. And I couldn't do that.

[CC43]

The worst part is that they constantly want my help and when I try to honestly help, even in ways sensitive to their own fragile thought process, I immediately get stopped, talked over, or hear a “yeah, but”.   

They want my help, but the reality is they want validation of the very things they claim to want to try to get over. 

That's insightful of you.  I agree 100%.  The pwBPD in my life often asks for help and validation.  But the help she want's isn't help in solving the root cause of a problem; the help she wants is money, allowing her to AVOID solving the problem.

She doesn't really want validation, either.  She requests validation of her convoluted victim narrative:  that she's traumatized by life, that it's too hard for her, that all her problems are caused by other people.  That she can't work, she can't study, she can't get anything she wants.  I might ask her, Well, what do you really want?  She'll reply that she wants more plastic surgery and to move abroad, for example to Paris, because she can't stand where she's living right now.  I might say, Well, I can certainly see the appeal of moving abroad, and it's certainly possible.  In fact, I lived in two different foreign countries when I was around your age.  It's doable if you work for it.  Now, what sort of steps do you think you might take to work on making your dream come true?  (She doesn't offer any ideas.)  May I suggest that you sign up for a language class and try to work here at company with offices in Paris--later on you could apply for a secondment, how does that sound?

Unsurprisingly, she doesn't like any of my suggestions, because it's the wrong type of validation and help.  Why?  Because my proposed real-life solutions don't involve me forking over cash, but rather involve her working on herself and towards her supposed goals.  It becomes increasingly clear that her goals are mostly based on fantasy.  The moment she starts thinking about practical realities (learning a foreign language, working a job), she feels overwhelmed and wants to give up.  That's when she'll double down on her victim narrative:  My family is the reason I can't do anything I want, my life is miserable, it's hopeless, it's your fault, you're horrible, you OWE me, I never want to see you again but send me money because I have to get out of here ASAP.

Besides, when trying to validate someone's feelings, there's an underlying assumption that the validator has some empathy and understanding.  Yet the pwBPD in my life doesn't want to admit that other people might "get" her and understand her issues.  No, she wants to be the gold medalist of the grievance Olympics, unique in her traumas, untouchable.  In her mind, it's impossible for me to empathize with what she's going through.  Basically, my pwBPD's suffering has become a core part of her identity, and if I claim that I "get" her, it probably feels like trespassing or stealing the one thing that belongs to her.

Underneath it all, I think she knows she's being unrealistic and unreasonable.  But her negative emotions take over and interfere with her life, hampering her ability to maintain stable adult relationships and tackle the mundane tasks of daily living, while  working gradually towards future goals.  She's convinced she doesn't have what she wants, and yet she's also utterly confused about what she really wants, while she doesn't have the patience to work towards what she wants, either.