Help with next steps

[Tdj]

I have been dating a woman for the past year and a half that has been very up and down. Although she is not officially diagnosed with BPD I have had 2 mfts convey to me that she most likely suffers from it.

For the last 6 months our relationship has been incredibly up and down and she has broken up with me at least 5-6 times due to her lack of trust in me and my relationship with my ex wife.

Every time I think we are making headway, she suddenly loses it and rages uncontrollably at me, saying just about the nastiest stuff you could possibly imagine. I know that I am not perfect and did make mistakes earlier in our relationship, for which I have been constantly apologizing to her and doing everything in my power to change our narratice, all to no avail. This past week I thought we were back in track, had an amazing Valentine's together and then she again suddenly flipped on me due to(I think) me meeting up with my ex wife to settle a car loan. She told me she hated me etc etc and never wanted to see or hear from me again(this is probably the 10th time she's done this).

I reached my breaking point and emailed her saying that I loved her but it was not okay for her to be emotionally and verbally abusive towards me anymore and that she shouldn't contact me unless she planned on apologizing to me, taking accountability for her part in the relationship, and speaking to me sweetly.

She replied back later that evening in another full on rage and left me.pages and pages of things listing why everything in the relationship is my fault. Stating she would not be apologizing for anything because it was all my fault that she was doing and saying things only in response to me.

It has now been 4 days of no contact and it's been brutal for me. I love her dearly and have been giving my all to show her I love her, she just refuses to accept it. I want to do right by her(and me and us) and mend the relationship if possible. With that said I've been advised to hold strong in my no contact and patience in waiting for an apology from her if I ever want anything to work between us in the future.

Any advice on the best way to deal with the situation would be highly appreciated.

Thanks

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tdj]

I should add that I am mostly confused about if my current course is optimal or not. I have been reading a lot on the site about being empathetic and am starting to feel like I am making a mistake with what I've said, although I need to establish boundaries. I think this may be the wrong way to go? Thanks for any input

[Meili]

 

Much of what you wrote is very familiar to a lot of us here. My own relationship went through a lot of what you described.

What I learned is that it wasn't that I was talking to my ex-wife (we have an adult daughter and occasionally discussed what she was doing), or that I was doing anything wrong in that regard; it was my uBPDexgf's own insecurities. My talking to another woman was a signal to her that I might leave her at some point. This triggered her abandonment issues and she would rage. I've never had anyone treat me the way that she treated me when she would get like that.

It took my learning about BPD and how someone with disordered traits thinks and views the world before I could begin to understand. There are some links to great articles that may help you begin to change the dynamic of your relationship and how you deal with her in the sidebar to the right. Listening with empathy was one that particularly helpful to me. It helped me see that when she started to rage, I needed to stop paying attention to the words used and start listening to the feelings that were being conveyed.

My personal opinion is that by going no contact, you are not doing yourself any favors. If she does suffer from BPD, the chances of her apologizing to you right now aren't very good. It could happen, but holding out for it may be doing you more harm than good.

I look forward to reading more of your story and hear how things are progressing for you. Keep us updated!

[Mutt]

Hi Tdj,



I'd like to join Meili and welcome you to bpdfamily. I'd like to add to what Meili said about empathy / communication, it helps to read as much as you can about the disorder, a pwBPD will rarely take ownership of their own actions, they tend to blame the world for their ailments. I can understand the hurt feelings, I was in your shoes once too and I demanded an apology. A pwBPD are highly sensitive and need a lot of validation, we can deliver our truth, we just need to package that truth differently then what we would with a non, validate the feelings first, that way it makes someone feel like they're being heard, then deliver your message.

Let's take a look at this from another angle? We can't control our pwBPD or expect them to change, BPD is a lifelong mental illness, in order to have the dynamics of the r/s change and move in a healthier direction for us, change has to come from the non disordered partner.

There are only two things that we have control over and that is our thoughts and feelings. My advice is change your boundary when she rages like that, advise her but don't discuss it because you'll find yourself in conflict, say something like I'm not going to be around if you're like this, I'm going to step out for awhile, I'll be back later. Set the boundary on you and not her, if she does X then I respond with Y. My guess is when she's raging like this she's feeling anxiety and she's feeling engulfed in the r/s, a pwBPD have an under developed sense of self and feel like their losing identity in r/s, and start pushing away. You're also right, a pwBPD don't trust themselves and don't trust others, they're hyper-viligant with abandonment real or perceived.

[livednlearned]

Hi Tdj,

How are things going with your GF? Any signs of reconciliation?

It's possible that the drama is because things are going ok. Sort of like creating emotional intensity outside to match how she is feeling inside. Often, it's not personal, though it certainly feels that way.

Setting boundaries is an important part of being in a BPD relationship (pwBPD tend to have no boundaries, so you have to provide ones that are strong enough for two).

The other relationship skills, like validation, are easy to learn and take time to make them feel like second nature.

LnL

[Tdj]

hello everyone,

wanted to update. After my last post we actually got back together and I took use of the communication tools like validation etc

The relationship went well for a solid 3 weeks and then blew up because she saw an instagram post my ex wife posted. The post was basically of a dog bed that was identical to the one I have for my dog. When she saw that she assumed I had been in contact with her or someone in my family had been in contact with her and lost it. A few days of turmoil went by and then she left again. I couldnt handle it. I asked her if she wanted to work on things and she just said "it wasn't working" I said OK im done trying (I thought i was). I blocked her and emotionally refollowed my ex wifes instagram page because I was being a dick. She saw it and showed up at my house later that night in a rage, threatened to ruin my career and stormed off. Two days later the couples counselor we were seeing called me and asked me to come in to talk. She told me that basically she was concerned I was going to stalk her and was reaching out to the therapist for help. I lost it, i emailed her and told her that was ridiculous, I called her out on her BPD(first time, although the counselor agrees she suffers from it) and we then went NC for one month.

I reached out last week and since then she has done nothing but punish me. She will tell me how awful I am, that she hates me and wants nothing to do with me. I mentally give up and then the next night I will recieve an email from her at 2am of her basically telling me how awful I am again.

She has now begun to distort the truth of our situation drastically, accusing me of lying about her and making up stories and then also spreading these stories in order to make people dislike her and instead side with my ex wife. Everyone I talk to about it thinkgs its ridiculous but its driving me crazy. Today she told me she wants nothing to do with me and hates me, that I am a liar and all ive ever wanted was my ex wife and that if my ex wasnt in the picture we'd still be happy and together. I even asked my ex wife to reach out to her and tell her we have no relationship anymore and have nothing to do with each other. She did that for me but since then there has been no response.

i'm so lost, i feel like im losing my mind. I dont understand why she wont give up on the things shes saying. I assume I have no been painted completely black because yesterday when I validated her feelings. She just kind of faded out and left me out to dry. (today I reinitiated contact because I wanted to talk with her more)

I could use any support in this right now. I'm so lost

[stayingsteady]

Hi Tdj,

I'm so sorry to hear that you're going through this.  I had a similar situation occur with my wife: 

I had also blown up on my wife.  I had also told my wife I believed she had BPD.  My wife also ran away.  My wife also convinced many people that I was stalking her.   My wife also distorted facts of our relationship to others.  My wife also attempted to punish me. 

From what I've learned, one reason these things can happen is because the other person is trying desperately to prevent a feeling of inadequacy from taking hold within them.  By convincing themselves that you are stalking them they also increase a belief that they are liked enough to be stalked.  By running away first they can prevent being abandoned (and therefore also prevent a feeling that the abandonment was due to their inadequacy). 

I wanted to ask, is she negative towards you during every conversation?  Was she negative towards you when you reinitiated contact?  You may be unconsciously reinforcing these negative behaviors if there is no boundary present to prevent them.  This could decrease her feelings of inadequacy because she unconsciously identified a way to get you to chase after her.

Just a thought... .

- Staying Steady

[Tdj]

Hi Tdj,

I'm so sorry to hear that you're going through this.  I had a similar situation occur with my wife: 

I had also blown up on my wife.  I had also told my wife I believed she had BPD.  My wife also ran away.  My wife also convinced many people that I was stalking her.   My wife also distorted facts of our relationship to others.  My wife also attempted to punish me. 

From what I've learned, one reason these things can happen is because the other person is trying desperately to prevent a feeling of inadequacy from taking hold within them.  By convincing themselves that you are stalking them they also increase a belief that they are liked enough to be stalked.  By running away first they can prevent being abandoned (and therefore also prevent a feeling that the abandonment was due to their inadequacy). 

I wanted to ask, is she negative towards you during every conversation?  Was she negative towards you when you reinitiated contact?  You may be unconsciously reinforcing these negative behaviors if there is no boundary present to prevent them.  This could decrease her feelings of inadequacy because she unconsciously identified a way to get you to chase after her.

Just a thought... .

- Staying Steady

Thank you steady,

Yes she has been negative towards me in every interaction. Her negativity also escalated each time as well. The things that she has said to me are just brutal. Ifs like the person I loved isn't even there anymore. She treats me as though I've done something terrible to her that needs to be punished. I am now blocked by her on every platform and am just left out in the cold. It was as if the more I told her I loved her the more she gashed me in return.

[livednlearned]

I reached my breaking point and emailed her saying that I loved her but it was not okay for her to be emotionally and verbally abusive towards me anymore and that she shouldn't contact me unless she planned on apologizing to me, taking accountability for her part in the relationship, and speaking to me sweetly.

In these push/pull cycles, asking her to do these things will likely make no sense to her.

First, you have to accept that she probably cannot consistently speak to you sweetly. If she is BPD, stronger forces are at work. Same for apologies and taking responsibility.

You will have to be the emotional leader, and in BPD relationships, that means protecting yourself from her bad behavior. That can mean putting distance between you two when she rages and accepting that she is in no condition to engage you in that moment and probably for a while after.

When she returns to baseline, she may not have the capacity to fully take in what happened and why, and who is to blame. She may not have a strong enough sense of self to poke around her shame.

If you want her to come back, she may need assurance (through your actions) that you are strong enough to weather her storms. Be your original attractive self  that drew her to you in the first place. Don't be needy or love bomb her.

She is probably needing you to be a confident guy.

[stayingsteady]

Thanks livednlearned,

I completely agree!

Tdj,

I definitely understand,

I wouldn't take this as an absolute, but I think there's a chance your girlfriend may also be acting through fear based responses.  Fear based responses can happen to anyone.  It's just the way human beings are built and it helps us survive when we're placed in dangerous situations.  Unfortunately, when this happens we lose our ability to make choices.  The rational parts of our brain pretty much turn off to allow the more primal areas of our brain to work more efficiently.  This helps us to get us away from whatever we "perceive" to be dangerous.

Fear based responses can complicate things pretty heavily because they are completely ingrained into every one of us (different responses for different people due to different life experiences).  We also don't get to choose when fear takes over (I'm pretty confident she doesn't want to be afraid right now).

Because she may be significantly limited in controlling her actions (because they are fear based responses) it may be best to choose an appropriate boundary to minimize the effect of the negative behaviors.  What do you think?

[Tdj]

Thanks livednlearned,

I completely agree!

Tdj,

I definitely understand,

I wouldn't take this as an absolute, but I think there's a chance your girlfriend may also be acting through fear based responses.  Fear based responses can happen to anyone.  It's just the way human beings are built and it helps us survive when we're placed in dangerous situations.  Unfortunately, when this happens we lose our ability to make choices.  The rational parts of our brain pretty much turn off to allow the more primal areas of our brain to work more efficiently.  This helps us to get us away from whatever we "perceive" to be dangerous.

Fear based responses can complicate things pretty heavily because they are completely ingrained into every one of us (different responses for different people due to different life experiences).  We also don't get to choose when fear takes over (I'm pretty confident she doesn't want to be afraid right now).

Because she may be significantly limited in controlling her actions (because they are fear based responses) it may be best to choose an appropriate boundary to minimize the effect of the negative behaviors.  What do you think?

Steady,

I definitely think there is a strong chance her actions are based in fear and control. I mean, the thing that initially split us up a month and a half ago was a picture of a god bed from my ex wife on her instagram. This dog bed is identical to the same one I have for my pup so she just concluded that I MUST be talking to my ex or someone in my family is, otherwise theres no way it my ex wife would have gotten it. Prior to this incidence she had been telling me how happy and great things were "best they've been". With that context it does indeed sound like a fear based decision.

Additionally, I am fairly confident that she is now engaging with a new guy and group of friends(friends that were NEVER around during our time together) which leads me to believe that she is using that to be even crueler to me because she has them as a distraction and audience to bash me with. These new friends know nothing about me so whatever she tells them they will of course believe.

As far as a boundary, I literally cant even enforce one at this point. She has blocked all forms of contact with me. My good friend who is a MFT has told me that this is just the way people with BPD operate, he thinks that since I began enforcing personal boundaries recently, that is what lead her to begin treating me so nasty. "She wants someone who will do anything for her anytime, regardless of the context and what shes done".  I won't understand it, so there's no use trying to. He also believes she will re-engage at some point and if I want to be healthy I need to not take the bait, that I should preemptively block her myself to eliminate the chance of receiving contact from her.

All I know is that in this moment I am in the thick of it. I have never given so much of myself to someone; so to be talked to and treated like I have never done anything positive for her just does not compute in my brain.

The more I write about this, the more "textbook" it is beginning to sound. I find myself asking questions that simply can not be answered. I find myself so confused as to how she can view past events in the way she does now.

[livednlearned]

I find myself asking questions that simply can not be answered. I find myself so confused as to how she can view past events in the way she does now.

BPD is equivalent to having no true authentic sense of self. It is likely that she slipped into a "self" when she was with you, and had a merger fantasy in which you two were almost seamless.

This is pretty heady stuff for the non-BPD person! You get reflected back to you someone who mirrors everything you could ever want.

And then inevitably this is disrupted (because merging is not sustainable) and the BPD person splits you black as though white never existed. A person with a stable sense of self can hold himself constant even when the other person is not living up to their ideal. This is not the same for a BPD sufferer.

In other words, if she feels bad, then you are bad. If she felt good, then you were good. There may be a kernel of something that triggered the flip but it's also safe to say that the flip would happen inevitably.

And like your T says, your GF will likely switch back at some point when the current situation begins to lose its luster.

And when she does, it may be as tho the cruelty never happened on her part, because she will want to resume the merger fantasy where things are perfect. The bad stuff will be compartmentalized and left unexamined.

The cruelty she tosses your way is unresolved pain and grief on her part. I'm sorry you have to be on the receiving end and go through this. It's hard to de-personalize these behaviors, I know.

[Tdj]

BPD is equivalent to having no true authentic sense of self. It is likely that she slipped into a "self" when she was with you, and had a merger fantasy in which you two were almost seamless.

This is pretty heady stuff for the non-BPD person! You get reflected back to you someone who mirrors everything you could ever want.

And then inevitably this is disrupted (because merging is not sustainable) and the BPD person splits you black as though white never existed. A person with a stable sense of self can hold himself constant even when the other person is not living up to their ideal. This is not the same for a BPD sufferer.

In other words, if she feels bad, then you are bad. If she felt good, then you were good. There may be a kernel of something that triggered the flip but it's also safe to say that the flip would happen inevitably.

And like your T says, your GF will likely switch back at some point when the current situation begins to lose its luster.

And when she does, it may be as tho the cruelty never happened on her part, because she will want to resume the merger fantasy where things are perfect. The bad stuff will be compartmentalized and left unexamined.

The cruelty she tosses your way is unresolved pain and grief on her part. I'm sorry you have to be on the receiving end and go through this. It's hard to de-personalize these behaviors, I know.

Lived, you have said a couple of things that stick out to me.

First is this idea of the cruelty never happening when things are switched back from black. You mentioning that makes me remember when her and k first started dating. She would present me with some seemingly random problem that would quite literally  Screw me up because it seemed so contrary to my perception of myself and then the next day would talk to me as if it never happened at all! That used to screw me up so bad and after that happened a couple of times I told my friend who is the MFT about it and he immediately told me to run. Saying that is not normal behavior and that she is likely borderline. He literally pegged it from the onset.

Secondly I have been beating myself university my situation but everyone close to it all says the same thing, "if it wasn't this, it would have been something else eventually". Looking at it through this lens definitely is helping me come to terms with things, however it is still very painful.

I also wanted to point out the point you mentioned about constancy. I never understood why through everything she would be so fickle about me(also something she told me about herself when we first started dating, that she was a out of sight out of mind person, and the one that really messed me up "if i tell you not to call me, you better Call". It never made sense to me how I could love her throigh her flaws but she couldn't do the same towards me. I would tell her that loving someone is choosing to love them despite feeling up or down, but she never understood that and instead used my words as a weapon against me down the line. She would often say instead "well my perfect boyfriend would be like this... ." I had no idea how much that statement hurt me until way later down the line.