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Author Topic: One moment I resent her, the next moment I miss her intensely - 2  (Read 2311 times)
FallenOne
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« on: April 05, 2017, 02:04:05 PM »

I'm looking for some opinions here. Still examining some of the things that happened to me. Do you think that living together brings out their behaviors more since you're both alone with each other? I feel like my ex's behaviors came out more when other people weren't around... Does living together possibly speed up the devaluation process?
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« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2017, 02:17:18 PM »

My observation has been any activity or behavior that illicit feelings of intimacy and familiarity in people with BPD (pwBPD) seem to also trigger in them their disordered fear of (imagined) abandonment/betrayal/denigration.

So when you start living together, you start to become more familiar or familial (like family) and IMO that would definitely be a trigger for a pwBPD's fear of abandonment, which could cause them to devalue you.
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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2017, 01:38:28 PM »

My experience with living together is that you are with them 24/7 for the most part so you see more clearly the rollercoaster of their emotions. We also work together so it really was a 24/7 relationship. All I can say is that it was more enjoyable working with her than co-habitating with her. She does wear her mask at work and at least appears more emotionally regulated... .but I know the ping pong balls in her head are incessantly bouncing no matter where she is.

Living together one sees much more of her disastrous coping mechanisms: heavy drinking (she loved doing shots of Fireball), cutting, vaping, going out with "friends". I don't know if it speeds up the devaluation cycle, but you are available to their full force BPD emotions and manipulations when you are alone with them.
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« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2017, 01:59:43 PM »

living together is a big step in a relationship. it can bring out the worst in any couple, and both as individuals. each person is exposed to the others weird and annoying quirks. privacy and space and freedom become limited and shared.

living together doesnt speed up a devaluation process - it brings two people with issues closer together and amplifies those issues.

how many of us made this decision impulsively?
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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2017, 02:36:42 PM »

I moved in with my exBPD fairly quickly but other factors contributed to that in a way.  When we started dating we lived in separate towns that were 25 miles apart.  After about a month of dating I took a better job that was in her town and my lease on my house was expiring so "why don't you move in with me" sounded pretty reasonable (I was staying at her place every night anyway). All the stars were lining up (so I thought).

I can't say us living together caused a change in her behavior... .as OR mentioned, I was just exposed to them more often.  However, living together could have contributed to my early devaluation because within weeks after I moved in she wanted me to buy an engagement ring, put each other on our checking accounts and start looking for houses.  I was not going to do that (so soon anyway) so that was the first step in my devaluation.  Perhaps if I hadn't moved in with her she wouldn't have been so rushed to get engaged, share finances and buy a house.

In my opinion, being devalued can't be avoided.  Perhaps delayed by circumstances, but not avoided.  So if you're wondering if you could have avoided the inevitable by not living together, my answer is no.
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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2017, 04:59:03 PM »

This one is interesting

My ex wife and I actually improved our relationship when we moved in and I think that may be more down to me feeling more comfortable. We're going back years here but I remember I was always very unsure of her feelings for me and she was often out of contact for days and behaving strangely with intermittent love and reinforcement - it was me that calmed down and our relationship improved when she moved in.

Our relationship didn't really get worse the closer we got - it got better - in the end we drifted apart - I lost interest in her to be honest - I wasn't interested in anyone else and wasn't planning on leaving but things got very bad very quick with a strong on unfortunate incidences.  I found her irritating for the last years and was bored of always doing what she wanted every weekend. Her family were around a lot and it irritated me to spend so much time with the in laws. I'm not really sure our marriage ended because of her issues alone - at the time I really believed that, and would have hung in if it weren't for them, but 'hanging in' is not what anyone deserves for a young marriage!
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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2017, 05:31:07 PM »

My ex more had "traits" and was more avoidant than clingy with conflict.
Moving in meant that he didn't have space between visits to decompress and regroup and put on his best face.  He seemed to think moving in would be as fun as dating but more fun.  Ummmm, NOT!  Seems he didn't really grasp, even though he seemed to communicate he did grasp the amount of responsibility that comes with moving in together.  We were merging households, kids, and well, there were naturally more expectations added with cohabiting, also division of roles, coparenting, etc.  Ex was no good at compromise, however, from a dating and more distant perspective, he appeared to be.  Yet, living with him, i soon learned that he wasn't compromising as I believed... .one day he threw it in my face that he was "always giving me my way" but biting his tongue.  I had no idea cause he pretended he was happy and content with what we arrived at after an argument.  I had no idea he had limited capacity for real conflict resolution.  So that space we always took between dates well... .was necessary to keep the dysfunctional dynamics at bay... .yet, neither of us knew.
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« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2017, 09:29:41 PM »

My xBPD asked me to move in, we talked about how our cats would get along how he would cook for me etc... .I thought wow this is great and felt releaved as I was in the process of looking for a new place to live.

A week later after spending time with his sister is when he decided living together wouldn't work as he needs his space.  My x seemed to have a very odd relationship with his sister as if she controlled all he did .

It seemed like after he asked me to move in is when things rapidly declined ... it's when he came  to me and said he has depression and a personality disorder and was getting therapy ... he broke up with me for the 2nd time soon after that .   I didn't know about BPD then but he has many traits.
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« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2017, 10:15:02 PM »

I made the decision impulsively  

I fell for the,  "why don't you want to move in,  don't you love me?" With crying and anger. Another  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) I chose to ignore.

After 1.5 years of bliss,  it took only 3 months before my ex lapsed into a severe depression after she married and co-habitated with the guy she left me for. He got both far more of a high and low than I did.  

Excerpt
living together doesnt speed up a devaluation process - it brings two people with issues closer together and amplifies those issues.

PD or not,  this is true.  There is no break.  You each see who the other really is.  

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« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2017, 10:57:13 PM »

I've heard it makes them worse from virtually every person who has ever done it.

I never lived with mine, (she asked me to but i would not do it until i trusted her and i never did)  however the replacement after me was devalued within a few weeks of living with her and supposedly the new guy who she moved in with about a month ago is now having serious second thoughts.
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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2017, 03:40:03 AM »

My ex who I suspect has BPD, text that in time she hoped we could be friends but would understand if we couldnt. What does this mean? I text saying that for my own peace of mind I needed to draw a line undereverything and try and move on. Incidentally she had gone to Australia having walked away for the 3rd time! But only 3 weeks prior she wanted the whole shebang with me, children etc. she had hinted at BPD before going. I had found out that in a matter of weeks of being there she had replaced me. I questioned her over text and she got very defensive texts b ack 'what did you expect me to do, never move on?' I then stupidly sent the nice text cos I couldn't stand the texts I sent previously which were angry etc ( I've since read more and more about BPD and have realized she has many of the traits and wished I'd perhaps never sent the text?). That's when she replied with the I hope we can be friends.  NC for nearly 4 months now. I had been recycled 3 times before. I guess my question is what does she mean if anything? I know she is with someone else now and in the first 2 weeks of being there was with someone immediately. She text me after the first 2 weeks when that came to an end as that person returned to the U.K. Bam a text asking how I was  having had nothing for 3 weeks. I believe she will not contact me ... .but what if this new r/s ends, then could she?
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Sadly
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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2017, 03:45:50 AM »

Yes, she could and she probably will. In my opinion it will be in your interest to not respond, nicely or otherwise. Remember, they love you until they don't, they need you until they don't. All subject to constant change. I know this at the cost of my own sanity and almost my life.
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« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2017, 03:56:09 AM »

these were the exact words of one if not the final texts I got from her:

I feel I don't need you.

Once you know about BPD, there's our evidence, and your closure eh? Now she's back on POf looking for the next victim.
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« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2017, 04:08:13 AM »

Thank you ... .I did not reply to the 'I hope we can be friends but would understand if you couldn't as I know you think I've done some hurtful things to you' ... .not much! That was the last exchange of texts between us and I did not say either way. She has since changed her number (Australia sim) and I'm assuming she still has my number ? I have no idea how long she will be in oz for - a year visa but spoke of staying out there longer? I guess it's the best place for her to be - the other side of the world. I have been in turmoil and pain for a long time over this r/s and still find it hard day to day. As I say I suspect BPD nothing confirmed but the more I read ... .plus she hinted at it herself.
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« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2017, 05:10:38 AM »

I declined my ex's offer to move in with him. I had some self-preservation instincts left somewhere. My decision initially felt counterintuitive, because one of my ex's worst difficulties was paranoia, and the paranoia got worse if I wasn't around him. I thought that living together could have alleviated that.

His relationship with the woman he cheated on me with (his flatmate) lasted for exactly a year and two weeks, his longest yet, and she agrees that the paranoia was worse when they were away from each other for whatever reason. But it got to the point where if she sat in the living room to sew instead of being with him in his room, he would get angry and suspicious. She had to try and come home for a few minutes each day in between work (she had two part-time jobs) to alleviate the paranoia. If she wanted to walk home instead of taking the bus, he would get paranoid and angry that she was "deliberately avoiding him" instead of getting to him as quickly as she could. So the proximity was a double-edged sword and I'm glad I had the sense to refuse his invitation, even though it might have saved me from the pain of being cheated on... .for a while.
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« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2017, 06:03:17 AM »

In one of the final few emails I received from my exBPD, yes we were down to emails in the final few days she wasn't returning calls then I blocked her number, she stated she would "always love me  and always be my best friend, but that I wanted more than friends".   This was while she was at the same time on Facebook with the next guy posing as'engaged', of course she had somehow gotten him to block me before he was posting it so I couldn't see and had some friend let me know.
I blocked her phone, email, fb, there is nothing else she has to hurt me with so I haven't heard anything since it ended over 4 years ago.  I do believe that once you ve really seen behind the curtain at Oz they get pretty gun shy about messing with you again, because they know the jig is up with you.   Just MHO.    
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« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2017, 06:33:56 AM »

I had all that friend sh*t too. Rubbish, they just want to keep you hanging on in case their life goes t*ts up again. I have friends but they sure wouldn't be if they spoke to and treated me the way he did. Their concept of friendship is as off balance as their concept of love.
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« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2017, 07:12:27 AM »

I was told before she headed off to oz 'I love you i just can't be with you ... .I need to be free and find out who I am ... I don't know who I am. You want to settle down and I cant' she also said that 'there would always be a massive place in her heart for me' . It just hurts so much and I agree the whole wanting to have you still in their lives. She's done this throughout her leaving me - happy to still have me there somewhere ... .before I found about the new/1st one in oz I had 'message me whenever!' I've been recycled now (as I now understand it) about 3 times.
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« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2017, 07:21:14 AM »

I haven't heard a peep in three months, and I don't expect to. She tried the "friends route" about ten seconds after telling me that I was too mentally ill to date anyone good in our last face-to-face conversation. I held back a laugh and said I didn't think it was appropriate to be friends after everything that happened.

She didn't like that. The next day there was the typical series of raging texts and phone calls. I blocked all forms of contact with her as I decided full NC for life was the only responsible form of action for the both of us. She tried to turn a mutual friend against me and when he told her she was being immature she raged and split him black too.

I don't think I'll hear from her again for the same reasons others on this post have said. As soon as I called her on her behaviour and told her I was not okay with continuing because of the things she did (and at that point I had no idea how many lies there were) there was no way for her to recycle me. When a BPDs shame and guilt kick in there is usually no way for them to ever come back in an adult manner. I consider myself lucky it went this way.
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« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2017, 07:43:26 AM »

I made the decision impulsively  

i "didnt have a choice". my ex moved her way in immediately, for the first three months of our relationship.

i pushed her to go back to her place, to get a job, etc. always met with major resistance. the fighting was daily, probably more than once a day. the whole experience was exhausting, it was the first of many times i "broke up" with her. its hard to affect a boundary in that situation, to this day im not positive what id have done but i like to think id never have gotten in that situation in the first place.

for what its worth, she did pitch us getting our own place together. i said no, and she got upset for hours, then got over it and thankfully never brought it up again.
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« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2017, 01:11:11 PM »

I haven't heard from her directly in months but she has started a new job very close to my workplace and is regularly engaging with my female coworkers so I feel like I have her eyes and ears all around me.

Although painful initially I think it is much better in the long-run if they disappear off the face of the earth. If they stick around and get into your business (directly or otherwise) it really slows down progress I have found.
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FallenOne
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« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2017, 01:41:13 PM »

Did anyone else find it difficult to return to ground level after one of your ex's episodes?

I found myself in this situation a lot. We would be sitting there, or doing something (at home or somewhere else) and suddenly when one of her triggers were triggered, she would go off the wall and go into one of her rages, or start crying, being moody, yelling or whatever else, and then when it was over, I was still in shock but she was "back to normal" again and I had trouble returning to the comfortable state I was in before it happened...

This usually caused more problems for us... Because she was able to go from 0 to 1000 and then back to 0 again within minutes, but I was still in my "what the heck just happened... ." state of mind and was unable to just let it go and return to normal because of the shock of what just happened out of nowhere.

This would cause me to distance myself from her a bit until the event completely wore off in my mind, then I was able to warm up to her again... But, she would be "hurt" by my distancing, because I wouldn't cuddle up to her, or speak that much, or face the other direction in bed, until I was able to forget what just happened... She would, of course, be paranoid and ask me "what's wrong?" and I would usually say "oh it's nothing, I'm okay" or would honestly tell her that "I'm still a little freaked out by what just happened... ." and she would be confused about this, as if the event didn't even happen or she didn't even seem to realize how much she actually flipped out. But, like I said, once some time passed without any more blowups, I was fine again, until the next blowup...

Did anyone else experience this?
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« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2017, 01:50:30 PM »

At what point in your relationship did you know she suffered from BPD? I knew pretty early on that she had been diagnosed with BPD... .and with my rescuer personality, I was able to go with her flow and re-engage pretty quickly... .but the first time she cut was very alarming, and I wondered what I had gotten myself into... .

I could definitely see your position, especially if you were unaware of BPD.
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« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2017, 01:58:12 PM »

I'm not a very religious person but after the last episode, I sent a text about her meant for my mother to her beause I was texting her at the same time, my mom broke out the bible one me and said I need to repeat this over and over.

The serenity prayer.

Give me the serenity to accept the things I can't change, the courage to change the things that I can, and the wisdom to tell the difference.

I've been in a mindfulness class for the past 6 weeks and this jelled so easily with the concepts I have been working on. We need balance. We need to know when to fight and when to accept. This was a big discussion last night in my mindfulness class. Its not just about accepting or changing its about the wisdom to know when to do both. Accepting all the time is just as much of a manipulative coping mechanism as fighting back all the time is. The growth lies in balance and wisdom. If you just accept then the high conflict person will walk all over your boundaries at will. If you fight back all the time you feed their desire for conflict. The key is wisdom to know how and when to defend your boundaries in such a way as not to feed their desire.

When I figure out the perfect way to do this given our own nature I'll let you know. Wisdom is surely wasted on the old.
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FallenOne
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« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2017, 02:00:11 PM »

At what point in your relationship did you know she suffered from BPD?

I knew of her personal issues before even getting involved with her but knew nothing about mental illnesses... I never knew it would be as bad as it was. She did not tell me anything about having BPD when we began dating. I knew she had depression, anxiety, went to a therapist/psychiatrist, was on meds and stuff, but that's all I knew.

After about a year together, and after a few weeks of not speaking after a huge blowup, she told me about her BPD diagnosis. She had spent about 9 months in a psychiatric hospital and was diagnosed with borderline there... She was 19 when diagnosed. She's 24 now. I know for a fact that she's diagnosed, because I have been to many of her appointments with her, visited her in the hospital, and I have seen her release papers myself.
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« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2017, 02:12:52 PM »

I found it very difficult. My ex would also pretend like absolutely nothing had happened (pretending her phone was broken during silent treatment episodes) or passing off nasty remarks and comments as "a joke".

So whilst I was still reeling she was acting like nothing had happened (usually within minutes or hours) and was confused when I explained why any of it was an issue. My response to all of this was to start agreeing with her that it was all a big nothing which my most serious mistake as all that happened was the severity and hurtfulness of the attacks increased.
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« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2017, 02:21:32 PM »

Hey FallenOne, Sure, this happened to me plenty of times, so much so that I began a practice of disengagement as a way to pre-empt her nuclear strikes.  I refused to share my feelings with her, because too often they were thrown back in my face during her tantrums.  After a while, it was like two strangers living under the same roof, which wasn't much of a marriage, sad to say.

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« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2017, 02:25:14 PM »

My ex would ask for us to move in together and then find ways of delaying/avoiding it happening when the time to get serious came. I think she saw it as a way of testing compliance and control rather than actually being something she wanted.

During her rages she would often say "I am relieved we don't live together because you treat me so badly" or words to that effect. We never got to the point where we actually lived together though.

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« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2017, 02:29:34 PM »

Ours would go on for hours and then when she was done I need to decompress and I get accused of stonewalling just when I'm about back to normal she would go of that if I loved her I couldn't be distant from her I would just love her through it. Then I'm back to What the heck. We never stopped long Enough for me to get back to neutral.
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« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2017, 04:53:33 AM »

my exBPD gf has her ex partner living across the street; he bought a house directly opposite! Although I was 99% certain they remained friends and non sexual, it was clear that although she wasn't happy he bought the place, she was still happy to string him along and openly admitted she was using him for non relationship/non sexual favours. She found it amusing that the guys new gf was suspicious... no surprise there, he would appear to be still hooked, and a woman might possibly pick up the signs quicker than a man.

For my exBPD, it gave her a sense of power, bolstered her fragile ego and her ability to still be an attractive woman.
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« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2017, 05:18:00 AM »

I did not hear a peep. I am more than 60 days NC and I pray I will never see him again or hear from him, even from friends etc. I do not want to know anything about him.
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« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2017, 06:30:35 AM »

Allow me to add just one other thing... .even though a lot of us have never heard a "peep" from our BPDex's after NC - I believe a good majority of them keep tabs on us through different sources. Social media, mutual friends, etc...

So while we may not have direct contact with them - keeping tabs on us IS contact (albeit covert).

For my situation - BPDex knows how much damage he did. And he has neither the courage nor the emotional maturity to make direct contact with me and offer a sincere apology for his actions.

Thank heavens it no longer matters to me one way or the other.   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2017, 09:36:16 AM »

Excerpt
So while we may not have direct contact with them - keeping tabs on us IS contact (albeit covert).

For my situation - BPDex knows how much damage he did. And he has neither the courage nor the emotional maturity to make direct contact with me and offer a sincere apology for his actions.

This is exactly my experience. Mine went off the radar except to have my ex best friend keep tabs on me until I realized it was happening and ended the friendship. He now uses that person's young adult son to keep tabs. He didn't reach out for YEARS until my father died. There was no public notification of the death. Nothing online, no funeral home announcement nothing. (there was a screw up and nothing was posted.) Then on the night of the funeral at 10PM I get a text "are you alright?" There was nothing on FB, nothing anywhere. So yes they keep tabs. In my case he is indeed to ashamed to make apologies and appropriate amends. That is where mine falls apart. He thinks saying "i'm sorry" just erases all the harm done. So sad.
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« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2017, 06:43:23 PM »

Hope2727,
" He thinks saying "i'm sorry" just erases all the harm done. So sad. "

Ain't that just the truth?  Smiling (click to insert in post)   What is up with that? My ex was the same way. He was so used to everybody just "forgiving and forgetting" his behaviors that he must have believed I would react the same way when he actually did attempt contact (four years ago). He found out differently.

I wish him all the best - unfortunately I've heard some tidbits here and there that life isn't so great for him these days. I'm not surprised.
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« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2017, 07:00:48 PM »

Hope2727,

I wish him all the best - unfortunately I've heard some tidbits here and there that life isn't so great for him these days. I'm not surprised.
Because of the type of people we are on here, that can make us feel a bit sad, but also relief that we don't have to deal with it eh? Just think if we'd have stayed, what we'd be dealing with. How can they not see it for themselves? We can't comprehend their way of thinking can we? In my case, the girl I met was actually quite proud of her life history, she saw herself as a survivorHell! And in a position to work as a support worker to help others! Since going back to internet dating, many of the profiles are support or care workers! They feel drawn to it, and/or it's the only work they can get without need of qualifications, and theres a shortage because no one wants to do the work!
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« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2017, 07:22:04 PM »

Hi cubicinch,
I read somewhere that pwBPD often have careers where they provide service to others. BPDex is a chef and has worked in the hospitality industry since he graduated from college. No, he didn't go to school to become a chef, either. It is just the direction his life went when he met his also-disordered spouse.

He also views himself as a "victim" in most situations. And most of the time it is his own fault that things fell apart. I think he's slowly shutting down and becoming more hermit-like. I am NC - but I hear stuff occasionally. Things that tell me he is finding less and less joy in life (recent abandonment of a favorite hobby). And I do not feel sorry for him. Yet he will continue to present a false front to the world that everything is perfect and he is soo blessed and lucky. Meanwhile, his health is failing and the rum keeps flowing. Nice, huh? 
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« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2017, 07:27:35 PM »

Allow me to add just one other thing... .even though a lot of us have never heard a "peep" from our BPDex's after NC - I believe a good majority of them keep tabs on us through different sources. Social media, mutual friends, etc...

So while we may not have direct contact with them - keeping tabs on us IS contact (albeit covert).

This is spot on I think. My BPD ex-girlfriend is engaging a number of my female coworkers (we used to work together) and mining them for information about in exchange, I suspect, for details about our relationship.

I haven't managed to become completely indifferent to the situation yet so it's stressing me out but hopefully soon I'll come to the point where I don't care.
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« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2017, 08:13:30 PM »

Hi getfree,
You will eventually reach a point of indifference. it took me a VERY long time to get there. But I finally arrived.

Something that helped me was when I eventually realized that BPDex was living a sort of "Groundhog Day" (like the Bill Murray movie).  Nothing ever really changes in his world (other than losing jobs!). I honestly don't think he can cope with change. He thrives on chaos in his chosen profession - but his personal life? Routine, routine, routine... .boring, boring, boring... .same restaurant every.single.Monday.   Same places, same events, same, same, same... .no new experiences, no spending time with friends or grandchildren - just work and home.   I came to understand that this removed the fear of abandonment to him. And I also came to understand how shallow and childlike BPDex truly is. This was a turning point for me in letting go. I don't feel sorry for him - he is aware that something is wrong with him, yet he does nothing about it. Just lather, rinse, repeat.
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« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2017, 09:09:28 PM »

Hi Lipstick

Thanks for your insight - I really hope that I get there sooner rather than later. It has been 6 months since the final break and I am honestly bored of thinking about it now but still have a compulsion to ruminate.

My BPD ex had similar traits in terms of "groundhog day" I discovered about 6 months into our 18 month relationship that a lot of the things she suggested we do together (dates, vacations etc) were identical or very similar to events she had done with exes. In addition anything "new" she suggested was copied directly from a female friend/acquaintance who she put on a pedestal.

I think you are right this removes the fear of abandonment for them - I can't be rejected for doing something I've already done (and I know the other party enjoyed) and I am less likely to be rejected if I do something that has been vetted by someone "better" than I am.

I feel sorry for my BPD ex despite what I went through, her life although high-functioning must be agony in reality and despite having awareness of her condition she seems completely unable to do anything about it.
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« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2017, 11:17:52 PM »

Yes, she could and she probably will. In my opinion it will be in your interest to not respond, nicely or otherwise. Remember, they love you until they don't, they need you until they don't. All subject to constant change. I know this at the cost of my own sanity and almost my life.
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So many great contributions on this thread ^^^.
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« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2017, 12:59:49 AM »

Just my opinion and experience, sometimes you may never hear from them unless you reach out - if you want to. I never initiated NC with my ex on both occassions she left but I was always the one to reach out for closure or whenever I wanted to express how much I still love her etc etc. Even if they reacted badly towards the contact you had given them for example, in their mind they at least know that you want them - whether they want you or not and can change their minds later in the future.
As if they need prompting that it is ok and that you want them back in your life makes it less risk for them to choose you again if they feel like it. Mine left me 2x. It's depends on the individual however I do think they do return if they have no more options left, you are within reach, and if they can make it up in their mind that you'd be good to reattach to, even if temporarily so. It feels very one sided still. I know it's possible for my ex and I to get back together in the future if I wanted to and whether or not the replacement lasts or not however the pattern has been that I am recycled the more I reach out.
Also just because they don't want you as a romantic partner right now doesn't mean they aren't secretly interested in your life too . They don't necessarily need to contact you directly to know that. They may still care to a degree to see what's going on your side of the fence especially when things are down on theirs obvious or not.
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« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2017, 10:03:16 AM »

My BPD friend has such strong engulfment issues that she often doesn't even make it to the point where she's living with the other person.  Two years ago, the night before she started moving in with a guy, she started a huge downward spiral that ultimately culminated in a suicide attempt about six weeks later.  Prior to that, she was living with a former co-worker and was doing okay, other than the daily drama (debt, etc.) that she always seems to have.  And even when she is living with someone, she always has one foot out the door.  With that guy, she kept most of her stuff at her old place, until her former roommate threatened to throw it all away.  Last summer, she started living with another guy but kept her old apartment.  She also asked me to get an apartment with her once and actually said we could just sign a 6-month lease.  I had no desire to live in an apartment, and I barely knew her at the time, so I declined. 

But yeah, as others have said, I'm not  sure if it's really that they actually get worse when you start living with them, but rather that their behaviors become much more obvious.  For example, my BPD friend is incredibly disorganized and messy.  It's easy to clean up before someone comes over, to give off the appearance of being tidy, but to keep up that appearance is impossible for her.
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« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2017, 02:31:52 PM »

Wow, I have to go pretty far back into my memory banks to when ex and I moved in together. We did it the old fashioned way. Dated. Got engaged. Got married. Moved in together after the "I do's".

Once we were married and living together, things did change. He didn't show nearly as much interest in some things and it almost felt like once I said "I do" he said "I don't." That is over simplifying things a bit. I do agree that moving in together simply amplifies both parties dysfunction. I was aware of my issues and tried to adjust for that. From his perspective, he didn't have any issues. He was just having a hard time adjusting to married life.
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« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2017, 11:49:57 PM »

I've been asking myself this today... Shortly after her blowups, raging and outbursts, she would sometimes regret them and get teary eyed... .She would say "she's sorry and always feels like such a burden"... I think some of my fighting back with her made her feel that way. Then again, if I hadn't fought back, put my foot down, or stood up for myself, I would have been a doormat... However, my reactions to her behavior weren't always the best, I had my own outbursts in response to her outbursts, and I think I made her feel like she was a burden to me sometimes... .

How do you all feel about this with your own situations?

Is it better to sometimes try to have complete control over yourself and just try not get angry/emotional yourself when someone is literally flipping out and screaming at you? Is that even possible for a normal person?
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« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2017, 12:09:18 AM »

What's a core,  often debilitating emotion of pwBPD? Shame. 

We could have a good Friday night,  yet some Saturdays awake to one of her kitchen cleaning inquisitions. This was after I thought we had done a good job the night previously.  I retreated to take care of the kids.  She often put on her workout attire and leave for an hour afterwards.  Sometimes she'd later apologize,  saying she hated for me and the kids (them 1 and 3) to see her like that.  Occasionally she'd include me.  This went back to her FOO. Of course I never knew what to say.

I did trigger her shame sometimes by encouraging her to follow up on what sounded like job offers. She would fall back on,  "but I don't have a 4 year degree." I think these people knew that but they were impressed by her work.  I made her feel badly about herself.  I don't either,  but I made twice her salary.  I never let better opportunities pass.  I never said this to her.  One mistake was thinking that she'd just get this by my example.

Last year,  she told me that she told some of her friends that the reason she left me was because she felt badly about his she treated me.  So she left me and married someone whom she ended up treating worse,  though that took almost two years to come to fruition.

I think one of the major things we struggle with here is trying to understand the behaviors of the partner but not understanding how wrapped up in their own pain they really are.   

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« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2017, 02:19:57 AM »

Is it better to sometimes try to have complete control over yourself and just try not get angry/emotional yourself when someone is literally flipping out and screaming at you? Is that even possible for a normal person?

This is something I really struggled with, and still come back to occasionally. Could I have been more patient? Was I too needy? If I hadn't been triggered when I was, could I have reacted in a way that would have calmed things down? I guess I've come to the conclusion that, the more I put up with that behavior, the worse it got. Anyone who would have been fine with it would have not been emotionally invested in the first place, making her behaviors irrelevant to them. Or, they would have had some sort of disorder themselves that would make them able to tune this sort of thing out (which again would lead to a more limited level of connection).

I think it eventually became more a matter of, not if I could put up with it, but for how long if things never got better. I can put up with bad behavior for awhile, but not for an entire lifetime. I shouldn't have to either. I deserve better. If we feel they deserve this level of patience and understanding, why don't we expect that same treatment for ourselves?

The burden issue is very difficult. Like Turkish said, they are crippled by shame. There is a good article on this site that I am too tired to find, but it talks about how we become their mirror for their behavior. It's not us, it's them having to face how they already view themselves. This is something that can only be dealt with by them, in therapy. I really wish it wasn't. If love could have changed her, I would have been able to change her. I have never been as patient and loving with anyone in my life as I was with her. She deserved that level of patience and love, and I enjoyed giving it. But I also deserved it in return, and she was unable to provide that.
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« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2017, 04:05:51 AM »

If love could have changed her, I would have been able to change her. I have never been as patient and loving with anyone in my life as I was with her. She deserved that level of patience and love, and I enjoyed giving it. But I also deserved it in return, and she was unable to provide that.

This is very well said. I was not perfect in the relationship and I did trigger her at times, but I did truly care and tried to help, and it only led to engulfment and discard. The truth is there is very little we can do but understand the BPD pattern and hope that they become self-aware and seek changes in themselves. This is of course very rare and it is not our battle to fight. We have our own weak boundaries and self-esteem issues to deal with.

The best solution is to move on and find someone who can reciprocate our feelings of love. If anything these type of relationships with BPDs prove that many of us know what unconditional love really is. We put up with so much abuse and for what? Many people, disordered or non-disordered do not know what this type of love is. The trick is finding a partner who does and sharing this special bond with them.
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« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2017, 07:31:15 AM »

Is it better to sometimes try to have complete control over yourself and just try not get angry/emotional yourself when someone is literally flipping out and screaming at you? Is that even possible for a normal person?

1. If someone is flipping out and emotionally dysregulated, it doesn't help to "lose it" yourself - it mostly makes matters worse.

The opposite of not "losing it" yourself, is not to be a doormat. In fact, you can very much be a doormat by adopting someone else's bad behavior.

Strength is what helps relationships. So does compassion. You can be strong and you can be compassionate and not be a doormat. Finding the balance is what it is all about.

2. I think generalizing things like this to your relationship and broadening this to all relationships on the board is not a good idea. It really helps to look at your specific situations and your and her specific reactions to learn from it. For example, when she broke up with you, was it a good idea to contact her new partner and speak badly of her? Absolutely. That was not sticking up for yourself - that just started a war with people coming to your house, you then escalating by calling the cops, her then getting a protective order (PO) on you, and now you struggling with the PO and the fact that you can't even be amicable exes.

3. Her feeling like a "burden" was most likely her recognizing that she acted badly or unfairly and that it was not an isolated icident. You may have contributed to her seeing that, but the most important part is that she could see it.
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« Reply #48 on: April 13, 2017, 03:17:53 PM »

Anyone who would have been fine with it would have not been emotionally invested in the first place, making her behaviors irrelevant to them. Or, they would have had some sort of disorder themselves that would make them able to tune this sort of thing out (which again would lead to a more limited level of connection).

This got me thinking about what my ex used to say to me a lot of the times after a big argument that would cause her to run away and cry in the bedroom for hours. She would express to me, apologetically and in tears, or in a romantic note, that she is maybe not meant to be in an intimate relationship, she is too messed up. Of course, this would trigger my own fear of abandonment and I would go out of my way to try assuage and give her whatever she wanted so that she wouldn't leave me. I realize now how unhealthy this was for me (and for her), and upon reflection, has been pervasive in my previous relationships to lesser extents. It took someone like her to really overtly bring this to the surface for me to address and I am working on this now with a much better understanding of my own past wounds/traumas.

Perhaps, whitebackatcha, this is the exact type of person someone with a borderline structure (especially one who does not want to address their issues) needs for a relationship partner. If someone is able to tune out that crazy making behavior, and still be there so they don't feel abandoned, it might give them the space for more self reflection as this other person is less likely to enable their behavior? I know, for myself if I had better boundaries, I would likely seen the red flags a lot sooner have left long ago... .so the only other type of person who would stick around might be someone like this? I don't know, it is only a thought that came to mind... .
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« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2017, 06:11:47 PM »

My relationship was short - 5 months and we lived 3K miles apart.

I didn't lose my temper, nor lash out and "hurt" her with things we all know we can hurt someone with... .

Once I did raise my voice which I apologized for and her response was "I deserved it"... .but I wasn't apologizing for her but for myself...

In short there was nothing I could do that would have changed what happened... .

She at times was looking for things to be upset with... or just make them up...

And you can't fix or resolve issues in a relationship without the two people being willing to communicate honestly and with trust and respect.  An untreated person with BPD isn't capable...

In short - although we can always improve and learn about ourselves etc... .There is no "win" in these relationships... There was nothing you could do to save it or them.

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« Reply #50 on: April 14, 2017, 04:26:12 PM »

She at times was looking for things to be upset with... or just make them up...

This. I too felt that mine would be looking for something to blow up over. Some of the things she fought with me about and escalated were so trivial... It's like she was waiting for me to make a slight mistake just so she could create some chaos.

And you can't fix or resolve issues in a relationship without the two people being willing to communicate honestly and with trust and respect.  An untreated person with BPD isn't capable...

Also, this... I walked on eggshells during communication attempts and trying to come to a conclusion on an issue, typically because she was not able to handle blunt honesty or truth about herself... What she would do, is if I tried talking to her about something that needed to be talked about honestly and openly, she would get angry and get up and leave, or ignore me, or rage... .
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« Reply #51 on: April 14, 2017, 04:37:54 PM »

What she would do, is if I tried talking to her about something that needed to be talked about honestly and openly, she would get angry and get up and leave, or ignore me, or rage... .

Yep they immediately know where the conversation is going because what they have of a conscience is constantly telling them the same thing.
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« Reply #52 on: April 14, 2017, 04:51:39 PM »


And you can't fix or resolve issues in a relationship without the two people being willing to communicate honestly and with trust and respect.  An untreated person with BPD isn't capable...


This quote gets me thinking brahmin. How honest was everyone communicating in these relationships? What was I capable of?

For my part I knew something was wrong with my BPD-ex about 2 months in. She lashed out at me badly for no reason, and came up with a strange delusional explanation that I knew didn't really make sense. But it was early on and I was still idealizing her so I chalked it up to a "bad day", although I had never had a "bad day" like that so I knew deep down that something was wrong.

After the second, third, fourth, fifth arguments like this I knew that she was delusional and clearly exhibiting paranoid behaviour. I stopped having real excuses for her behaviour.

I didn't know about BPD yet but I kept trying to get through to her. I stayed even though I knew something was wrong. Was that respectful, staying with someone I knew was clearly not in their right mind? I knew that I couldn't get through to her and yet I still stayed. I wasn't honest and that is not respectful. If I had been the relationship would have ended much sooner. I think she sensed that I knew, and this clearly created more resentment.

When a partner realizes you think they're not well this does not lead to  a more positive relationship, unless there is clear and open communication about it. I did not do this, therefore I was not respectful. I was too busy idealizing the image of the relationship and how it would look once we got past this "rough patch". Clearly delusional on my part not hers.

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« Reply #53 on: April 14, 2017, 05:59:15 PM »

An untreated person with BPD isn't capable...

Apparently neither is a treated one...

I see this a lot on these boards. "An untreated BPD" this and that... "Without treatment" this and that...

Mine was heavily treated for nearly 7 years and on meds and after several trips to the psych ward there is barely a difference... .
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« Reply #54 on: April 15, 2017, 11:26:17 AM »

Apparently neither is a treated one...

I see this a lot on these boards. "An untreated BPD" this and that... "Without treatment" this and that...

Mine was heavily treated for nearly 7 years and on meds and after several trips to the psych ward there is barely a difference... .

Fair point.  I should not that the assumption in those remarks is successful treatment.  Obviously with several trips to the psych ward, it's not a stretch to say that the treatments didn't work.  Why is a subject for another post.
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« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2017, 02:15:29 PM »

The last time my BPD ex and I spoke was at the final divorce hearing (that I initiated).  We walked out of court and I handed her a wrapped package, the book 'Stop Walking on Eggshells'.  Gave her a friendly hug and said "I'll never see you again".  Turned, and walked away.  3 months later I moved 500 miles. 

In the meantime, the judge ordered us to split about $2000 in debts.  I paid $1700 immediately but when I tried renting a new apartment, I was declined due to her not paying for apartment damages the judge had ordered her to pay.  I sent her an email, with paid receipts, for $1700 of the $2000 debts.  And kindly asked if she would just pay the final $300.  Nothing personal.  No nostalgia.  No questions about anything except financial.

Her response the following day by email was typical BPD claptrap. 
-I hope you're happy.
-You're a wonderful man.
-You deserve someone better than me. 
-I don' have BPD.
-I've been diagnosed with Severe Adult ADHD (and a list of other incurable ailments and diseases) 
-Doctors say I COULD live another 20 years if I'm lucky (at the time she was 39)
And then said she would email me the paid receipt for the $300 debt the following day.

Of course, I never heard another peep out of her.  No calls, texts, emails or letters.  It's been 3.5 years.  And she's never paid a dime of the debts.  I wish her no pain or heartache.  But unfortunately karma will catch up with her... .if it hasn't already done so.  My point is this, once THEY know that the non has completely detached, and there is nothing more they can say or do to get the non back in the web of pathological lies and deceit, they MUST disappear to save their own necks... .and proceed to the next poor sap. 

Best of Luck and Good Fortune
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« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2017, 01:19:33 PM »

This thread has reached its posting limit. Feel free to continue the conversation here. Have a great day.

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