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Author Topic: It's so hard to be intimate with him when he makes me feel like  (Read 395 times)
Happy outside

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« on: May 04, 2017, 05:31:30 PM »

I'm just gonna put it out there and ask to see if I'm alone in this issue. One of the biggest issues in our marriage is our sexlife or according to him; lack of.
1. Frequency is never enough. I'm good with once or twice a week, but not him. His dream is everyday...
2. I never initiate enough
3. He is demanding that I see a sex therapist to fix my lack of sex drive.
4.  Because I don't want sex everyday, I'm frigid and have hang ups regarding no desire.
5. Can you believe that in 20 years of marriage, we NEVER had sex on his bday?  I told him that I didn't believe that and asked if he kept a calendar with this info; BIG MISTAKE!  

It's so hard to be intimate with him when he makes me feel like crap most if the time.
I have tried telling him this, but it just leads to another fight.
Anyone else living this?  
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Tattered Heart
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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2017, 08:34:27 AM »

Hi happy,

I'm sorry you are going through this. I used to have this issue with my H. If I told him no he would see this as a huge rejection. He thought that I hated having sex with him, that he wasn't good enough, that I wanted my ex boyfriends instead, etc. We finally were able to have a conversation about sex that didn't lead to a fight and I learned quite a bit about how a man views sex.

For men, sex is the equivalent of affection to a woman. Their self worth and connection in a relationship is tied up in sex. If they are not having sex with their partner, it's hard to feel connected to them, just like for us women, if our husband's aren't giving us the emotional support we crave it's hard for us to connect. In a relationship with someone with BPD it can become a horrible cycle. As the wife we don't feel a connection because we are hurt by their BPD behavior, so we do not desire sex with him. We turn them down for sex and he doesn't feel a connection or loved so the BPD behavior gets worse because his feelings of rejection get worse which causes us to feel even less connected emotionally.

Here's what I've come up with in my relationship and it seems to working VERY well. I rarely tell my husband no, even when I'm not completely in the mood. I do this, not because I'm worried about him being angry, but because I love him and I know it's important to him (isn't that the same reason he goes to CHristmas at my mom's house even though he hates it?). If I do tell him no, I don't give him a lot of excuses because that makes him think I"m justifying. I just simply say, "I'm pretty tired tonight can we do it tomorrow?"

The key is that I give him a later date (usually the next day)so that he sees that I'm not completely rejecting him. He also has something to look forward to. I don't use this often, but sometimes, I really just don't feel like putting in the effort. If I promise for the next day I have to be sure no matter what I make time to follow through on my promise AND I use my pre-planned day as a time for me to initiate. (And honestly, the initiation he wants from me is so minor that I usually just have to send him a text asking him to take a shower before I get home with a heart face)

When I began doing this, he would steadily want sex every other day. But now that he doesn't feel like he has to fight for sex, we frequently go 2 or 3 days without. Even crazier is that sometimes he even turns me down!

 
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Happy outside

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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2017, 10:19:00 AM »

Thanks for the advice. At least I'm not the only person out there dealing with this. It just seems like such childlike behavior on his part, but it is what it is...

How do I get him to stop "rehashing" over everything I may or may not have done?  I'm sore tired of him pulling out his mental scorecard!  I can't remember what I did 2 weeks ago, but he sure can remember every little grievance against me. 
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Hmcbart
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« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2017, 04:04:33 PM »

I'm on the flip side of this one.  I'm the husband who wants it with a wife who seems to always have a reason not to. 

TH- you're partially correct on how sex is the equivalent of affection for a man.  At least for me, the affection is important but the sex is what validates that the affection was genuine and real, At least from my perspective. It's the part that completes the connection (no pun intended).

As you can imagine sex is a very important part of the relationship to me.  When I started therapy my therapist asked how many times per week I would like it to be.  I started laughing and she looked at me puzzled. I told her I've never thought of it in terms of weeks. I told her we are sexual on average 2-3 times per year.  I told her I'm better off trying to buy a flying car than asking for sex on a weekly basis. 

We are in MC currently and this is still the biggest topic for me. So far this year we are up to 3 times, which I'm being told us a giant improvement. 

The problem comes in the form of no follow through on her part.  She is always saying it's important to her and she want to do it more often.  She says everything I need to hear to be ok.  Then there is no follow through.  If she says I can't tonight but we can tomorrow, tomorrow doesn't come. I got told just a few weeks ago when I was explaining this that "even if it doesn't happen when I said it still happens eventually!"   And because this is the number one issue I have complained about, now she says that "the only reason I want to be with her is for the sex!"  How can,  a man who wants to have sexual with his wife several times a week,  is turned down all but 2-3 times a year, stay married for 20 years and never once cheat or even think about it, how can you say I'm only with you for the sex.   

Yes I'm venting a little.  Tell your husbands they have it very good because there are people like me out there begging for a drop of water in an endless desert. 
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foggydew
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« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2017, 04:19:24 PM »

Happy outside, that sounds like the theme of my long marriage. I got so tired of the topic that I also got tired of sex, unfortunately. To be able to sleep without long arguments, I usually put up with it. Gradually, as my late husband began to feel less threatened and more convinced of my caring for him, he could accept a 'no', even though the topic of frigidity and not initiating came up frequently. It took years for us to have some kind of equilibrium, and I think my life long I have suffered from this. In both my marriages. I always thought sex should be fun and relaxed - it hardly ever was. Secretly, even at my advanced age, I'd still really like to have a partner with whom sex could be fun and great. Up to now it has always been a trade-off.
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foggydew
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« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2017, 04:23:37 PM »

oh, and I forgot, sex could never be planned, like 'having a nice evening together'. It had to be spontaneous. That is, when I was falling asleep from tiredness and he'd finished his beer. In the end, I planned and said nothing. But it was not a very good system, only about surviving. In other ways, when he got over his insecurity, he was a loving husband.
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Happy outside

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« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2017, 09:48:55 PM »

Hmcbart, I get what you are saying about "empty promises". I too have been guilty of not following through. How do you forget all of the horrible things she has said to you?  How are you capable to open yourself up to intimacy?  I know that sex is one of our biggest fights, but it's getting more difficult to forget how he treats me.

Throw in the fact that he works on average 50 to 60 hours a week... .
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babyoctopus
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« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2017, 11:11:04 PM »

I've been separated from my BPDh 8 mos now, so no sex, obvi. For me, its one of the most positive things!
Sex was always a huge issue. He always wanted it more than I did. The constant struggles with his behavior and how I was treated was hard to forget at night. But I would give in because the pouting, grouchiness and fighting just wasn't worth it. Then he started in on the type of sex, it wasn't good enough, long enough, or he wanted other things. I gave in to that too. He was like a black hole of neediness and it was just a huge turnoff. He started getting meaner, making lewd comments and putting my appearance and age down, and that's when I said: Enough. I realized we weren't having intimate sex at all, I was being forced to. I hated myself for it and him too. it was one of the many downfalls that eventually led to me filing for divorce after 23 years of marriage.

I feel bad for the men on the board who just want to feel close to their wives and experience  intimacy- let's not confuse the two. Women that have to deal with BPD behaviors from their man usually feel sex is used to control and for emotional abuse. That's how I felt. Mine would keep count - purely a quantity issue and I was "frigid". Nightly, he would demand sex, then he'd wake up 2-3-4 times, sometimes want it again. If he knew I was awake too, or if I would roll over or move, it would awaken him and often he'd want more sex. I would literally lie there praying and pretending to be asleep, and could not move all night once he was asleep. The worst was, when he couldn't perform, it would be an all night argument about how it was my fault, rehashing, raging, etc. And I wake at 4:30 am for work. Sheer hell.

Its so liberating to want to go to bed at night knowing I'll get a full night of deep sleep, free from the constant tension of that marital bed.I'm sure I missed out on something wonderful all those years married to BPD, but I guess it wasn't meant to be for me.

Namaste.
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Hmcbart
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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2017, 09:17:54 AM »

Hmcbart, I get what you are saying about "empty promises". I too have been guilty of not following through. How do you forget all of the horrible things she has said to you?  How are you capable to open yourself up to intimacy?  I know that sex is one of our biggest fights, but it's getting more difficult to forget how he treats me.

Throw in the fact that he works on average 50 to 60 hours a week... .

Forgetting the things she said is turning out to be the biggest battle I've ever fought.  My therapist says that's the part I have to deal with if I can ever move forward.  I agree for the most part but haven't figured out how to do it yet.

I think the fact that I struggle to open myself up intimately and trust her is one of the reasons I have difficulty completing the task when we do have sex. I can almost always get her there but it doesn't always happen for me (like 1 out of 4 times). This turns out to be an issue for her.  After speaking about it a few weeks ago, I was explaining that I get that emotional closeness even if I don't get the physical release.  She told me that she doesn't get that emotional closeness if one of us does not get to finish.  She said she will beat herself up mentally thinking she didn't do something right.  When that happens she isn't in the mood for a long time, weeks or months.  So it's a catch 22 for me, I need it to happen more often which will help me with the emotional connect I've craved from her for so many years but she only gets further away when I can't finish.  I'm not sure what I should do at this point other than just give up on the idea that I will ever have that with my wife. 

Babyocto-  my wife has always used sex as a control and for emotional abuse also.  She has even admitted to using it as control and withholding in front of our MC. Sadly it really hasn't changed anything.  I also have always kept count but in my defense it's not hard to count to 3 and even easier to remember that number for the year. 
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Happy outside

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« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2017, 05:39:09 PM »

Sounds like most of us are dealing with this in some sort or fashion.

I'm so tired of my spouse telling me:
" you don't like sex"

"Stop lying to yourself".   if I try to tell him how I feel about things, because he is apparently in my head and knows my true feelings.

"I want to be with someone who is in love with me"

The list goes on and on...
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babyoctopus
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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2017, 11:03:02 PM »

Happy Outside
Yes me too my stbexh would tell me terrible things constantly:
"I'm going to get a girlfriend is that OK with you?"
When I wouldn't reply:
"I guess that means yes, then, right?"

"You must be cheating if you never want sex"

"You're no fun"

"You're getting old and menopausal"

Ugh... so glad no more!
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JoeBPD81
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« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2017, 06:34:35 AM »

It's complicated and we all have our issues.

I get so many mixed signals, and love and hate messages, she pushes and pulls me... .So when we have sex, I am sure she wants me, it's the moment I have no doubt. Maybe she is not in love with me, but I'm the person closest to her, and that gives me peace.

I am insecure. I think all the time that she should be sure I love her, because I don't give her any reason to doubt, and I give her plenty of reasons to be sure about it. But they are pathologicaly insecure. It makes me sad that she talks as if she had no clue how much I love her.

I see again and again that DBP + male EGO are a really bad combination. Maybe he's saying "I feel alone" "I fear that you don't love me" "please, don't leave me" "I can't be loved" "I don't feel atractive"... .And being disregulated what he utters is... .all of those completely wrong and hurtful sentences you mention. Naturaly, that hurts us and disregulates us, we react to the words, and not to the feeling (because we don't really know the feeling behind). We also have acumulated feelings for a long time, and we feel awful it we just give up to demands when they are not treating us right. And we feel bad when we say no.

To me it worked to talk, and ask for a step back. I told my ex-wife that we have gone into a dynamic that made me really incomfortable, and I often felt sad, and used, and trapped during or after sex. I knew sex was very important to her, but we were more than that, and if she cared about me, I really needed to step back and have no sex for a while, and then take it up again from scratch, with a new perspective. She took it well at first and I felt much better for gettting my concerns across.

You can't have sex with someone because you don't want to upset him, it's not a valid reason. And anyone can understand that. If you love someone, you don't want her to have sex for that reason. If you can get that message across sourounded by other loving and validating ones, it might work. This is not about not finding him atractive, or not loving him... .It's just that it has come to a point that the whole topic makes you very anxious, and that takes you out of "the zone". You are both in pain, and you both want to be in a place where you can enjoy intimacy, so you must work together, because you have the same goals. You both need to stop pushing and pulling while hurt, pointing fingers, and really talk about it.

I've been moths without any intimacy with my GFwBPD. And well, I had to stop thinking with my pants and admit that ending her suicide thoughts and keeping her out of misery was more important than sex. Eventually, things have gone back to a almost one a week average (I don't count), and that is great, even if I like her everyday and I would love to have more intimacy, and to show her how much I like her all the time. Even kissing or hugging her is a no no 80% of the time, or more. 

I hope we all get lucky, pun intended. And it would be awesome if someone had a few guidelines to face this issue with success.
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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2017, 03:25:22 PM »

Hi Happy,

Your situation is mine exactly.  It's very difficult.  It messes with your head.  Thank you for your post, and thanks everyone for the various perspectives.  There was a similar thread by Hmcbart.  I have not as yet found useful tools to change my circumstances... .  I'm married 25 years, together 30.  Have considered separating but not financially possible.  (feels like he has made sure of that... .)  I'll keep searching for insight too.  Stay strong 
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PeaceHarmony

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« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2017, 05:12:37 PM »

Happy Outside, I relate!
My H does not understand that after a rage with verbal abuse I want to go as far as possible from him, and the last thing on earth I want is to be intimate with him! Yet he will use guilt trips and try to seduce me endlessly, and why I say 'no', and I even explain that I am too hurt and feeling unsafe, he says things like "maybe I will just go to get it somewhere else". In calm times I explained to him that for me intimacy does not simply equal sex, it is about love, respect, connection and emotional bond. When he rages and calls me names, accuses me of things that are not true and blame me for everything that is wrong in his life - it destroys intimacy. He can fix it by being nice and respectful and act like an adult... .I don't think he gets it because the cycle repeats itself continuously. If he wants sex, he says he wants to be intimate - clearly it's not sinking in... .
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BeagleGirl
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« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2017, 09:36:06 AM »

Count me in as another who experiences this and has no real recommendations on how to change it.

I separated, and am remaining separated, from my BPDh primarily for this issue.  The recurring nightmares of my BPDh raping me were part of what drove me to leave, and I have gotten to a point where I think I could return to our home and marriage EXCEPT that I can't even imagine kissing him, much less having sex.

I went for many (many, many, many) years holding the responsibility for having sex at least 2x per week.  Background - my BPDh and I are both Christians.  According to scripture, my body belongs to him and his to me.  There are scriptures clearly stating that we are not to withhold sex.  Add to that a view of the wife as the husband's helper and mix in years of hidden pornography use, and I spent the majority of our marriage with the idea that if I didn't have sex with him regularly I was putting him in a position of temptation to sin by turning to pornography.  I spent a number of those years in peace, feeling like those times when I would have sex even when "not in the mood" were a gift I could give to my husband.  Kind of like him giving me a back rub when he didn't really feel like it.  There are many days when I wish that I could go back to that attitude.

The problem was that the pornography with masturbation didn't stop.  Even though he felt it was wrong.  Even though I was doing all I could to be sexually available to him.  Even at times when I was laying in bed next to him, asleep, but willing to meet his "needs".  Even when he was physically with me, but wasn't climaxing "fast enough" and would recall his favorite porn. (I found out about those times directly from him).  So this all translated in my mind to there being something wrong with me.  I wasn't "enough", but since I was the biblically acceptable recipient of his "needs"... .  So I started to feel used.  Throw in there all the "normal" BPD volatility, irresponsibility, and verbal abuse, and I started to feel worse than used.  I felt violated.  Then the nightmares started.  During this time, I started to recognize his behavior as abusive.  I could practically set my watch by the cycle - 7-9 days.  Forgiveness for his behavior, in his eyes, was me having sex with him.  That would start the "honeymoon" phase.  He would be nice to me for a day, maybe two.  Then he would start to withdraw.  Then he would do something hurtful or pick a fight.  We'd spend a couple days trying to resolve the issue, with him eventually pretending to understand "what he did wrong" and promise to never hurt me that way again and begging for my forgiveness.  Forgiveness = sex... .start the next cycle.

I should also state that BPDh went through a Christian sex addiction program that had the stated goal of stopping sexual sin and teaching the participants what true intimacy is and how to obtain and sustain it.  To the best of my knowledge, it was the key to stopping the pornography with masturbation, but I have that internal sad, ironic laugh when I think about how little it did towards teaching him about true intimacy.

Our T (also a Christian) has been working for years now on helping me to see the pornography use as an indication of something broken in BPDh, and not proof that there is something wrong with me.  She was the one to point it out as an "intimacy free" and "lazy" way of getting his "needs" met (reasons why he would do it even when I was sexually available to him).  It was also an impulse control (or lack thereof) thing.  I have gotten to the point where I can mentally agree with that assessment, but the wounds are still there, and I still struggle with feeling like I'm not "enough". 

With all the BPD behaviors, our T has also helped me come to a place of recognizing my experiences with BPDh as abuse.  Even if we take the nasty label of abuser off of him, he is untrustworth.  How do you open yourself up  in the most vulnerable and intimate way to someone you can't trust?  She's also pointed out that it isn't all that surprising that sex with someone who behaves as a child is not all that attractive.  It's kind of hard wired that you don't want to have sex with a "child" who treats you as his "mother" and caretaker. 

So here I am.  Venting.  Still trying to make sense of this aspect of our relationship.  Still trying to figure out if I can ever put the toothpaste back in the tube and see sex with him as a gift I can give. 

Nope.  Still not there.

My sympathy is with you.  Let me know if you find anything that helps.

BeagleGirl
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« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2017, 09:36:43 AM »

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MrRight
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« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2017, 04:39:02 PM »

I'm just gonna put it out there and ask to see if I'm alone in this issue. One of the biggest issues in our marriage is our sexlife or according to him; lack of.
1. Frequency is never enough. I'm good with once or twice a week, but not him. His dream is everyday...
2. I never initiate enough
3. He is demanding that I see a sex therapist to fix my lack of sex drive.
4.  Because I don't want sex everyday, I'm frigid and have hang ups regarding no desire.
5. Can you believe that in 20 years of marriage, we NEVER had sex on his bday?  I told him that I didn't believe that and asked if he kept a calendar with this info; BIG MISTAKE!  

It's so hard to be intimate with him when he makes me feel like crap most if the time.
I have tried telling him this, but it just leads to another fight.
Anyone else living this?  

Yes agreed. My wife is always ready for it and complains.
But she wears me down etc - life is exhausting with her. And yes the abuse, verbal and physical.
the sex inside me is normally dormant. Odd that she doesnt connect my 0 sex drive with her behaviour.
Watching porn now and then fires me up and get me interested again. Then I may come to her - but the experience kills my interest
in sex once again.
Yes I understand you.
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Ti789
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« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2017, 06:11:46 PM »

I'm sorry you're experiencing this. You have had a much longer relationship than mine, but I can relate to the pressure for frequent sex. My girlfriend of one year is quite critical of me; on the one hand she says I'm very good in bed, and better than any of her exes, but on the other a huge issue for her in our relationship is that I don't make her feel 'desired' enough, although we have sex quite frequently. Two or three times a week when we are both very busy with work is not an acceptable amount for her. I feel for you, it's very stressful and a lot of pressure and conflict over something that should be comfortable.
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