I seem to be attracted to borderlines

[Blimblam]

Hi,

I seem to be attracted to borderline waifs.  They are very different in many ways than how most people describe their pwBPD.  Many never rage they dislike dramA etc.  if you have experience with waifs chime in part of me thinks that I could make things work with. Waif in the future if I approach it the right way

[woodsposse]

 

I'm interested in hearing more of what brings you to a conclusion that you may be attracted to boardline waifs.  Are your currently in a r/s and are going through some issues which bring you to that thought - or are you basing this off past relationships and are saying that if you get involved with an individual as such you woould like to prepare yourself with management tools so you could try and make the r/s work?

[Blimblam]

I realize 70% of the females I have had fling and rs with are borderline waifs. My last rs failed but I think it may have possibly worked if I was better prepared with propper management tools.  It is just that the waifs seem to defy the level of chaotic behaviors I read people talk about here.  My last one wanted to become more interdependent and the such. I think the waif type may be possible to create a lasting ltr with.

I have experience with a dBPD mom that I can see as the type of person ppl describe here and I do think any sort of ltr is not possible without being poisoned.  

The waif is different though ime. And a couple special ones in my mind are the one the got away.  I feel the fantasy could have been maintained.  As soon as I expected more than a BPD was capable of the devaluing began but had I known how to better manage I think the fantasy could have been maintained for years at least.  

I'm sorry but for me that fantasy was the best experience of my life

[woodsposse]

 

I think I understand a little better now.  Thank you for sharing.

I wouldn't presume to offer any advice on how you should go about living your life or picking the relationships you want to be part of - but since we are here on the "Staying Board", I'm sure other members can share some practical advice for you.  And, if you hadn't done so already, check out some of the links on the right about "working on a BPD relationship".

I hope you find what you are looking for.   

[JackBlacknBlue]

I have experience with two waifs.  One is my mother and one is my friend.  I have never seen my mother rage, but she is perpetual victim, depressed who blames the world for all her troubles.  She is perpetually helpless and ignores/does not choose paths that would resolve some of the issues she sees.  I now recognize that she plays starring roles as the perpetual martyr.  I have never seen her rage.  

However, with my friend she starts relationships as a waif and then moves back and forth between queen and waif.  I think there are people in her life who have never seen her rage but those of us closest to her pay dearly.  It took 8 months of knowing her before I saw the first rage at me with soulless eyes.  I still cannot figure out what triggered that incident as it was just the two of us at Christmas eve dinner talking about work stuff.  But she raged and then didn't speak to me for rest of evening.  Then woke up Christmas morning as though nothing had happened.  

To your question about making things work.  In my experience, I don't know what success looks like in making things work in either case.  Either way, I find myself either drained from hearing all the negativity about my mom's situation or on high alert with my friend in case of a triggered belligerent attack.  

I think you're in for pain and hurt thinking you can make things "work".  

[Blimblam]

I see.  I have experience with 7 waifs. Only 2 long term.  The waif siren would rage after a while. But the last one I see as the diamond in the rough. She did me badly and destroyed me. But that was after I put grown up expectations in her.  I really do think the fantasy could be maintained with her if and only if one does everything to uphold the fantasy and you only get one chance. What upsets me is I think the one who will be able to capture her will be a narcisist sociopath type.  Or someone highly educated on the topic. I'm almost afraid to reveal too much becUse I am pretty sure the other people on her back burner are reading up on all this stuff and may even read this because they want to be that one.

[Blimblam]

I was doing some online reading about schemas and they mention the  abandoned child and the lonely child. The abandoned child being the BPD person and the lonely child the codependent narcissist.  I think I may be the codependent lonely child.

Maybe with the right waif I could maintain the two kids playing make believe that I love so much. But maybe that could work with another lonely child schema type!   That would be Awsome.  Maybe it's not considered healthy but I love that feeling like being 2 little kids playing make pretend together.

[Turkish]

I was doing some online reading about schemas and they mention the  abandoned child and the lonely child. The abandoned child being the BPD person and the lonely child the codependent narcissist.  I think I may be the codependent lonely child.

Maybe with the right waif I could maintain the two kids playing make believe that I love so much. But maybe that could work with another lonely child schema type!   That would be Awsome.  Maybe it's not considered healthy but I love that feeling like being 2 little kids playing make pretend together.

Blimblam,

What I get from your posts is that you think you can "make it work" with what are basically disordered partners. Have you given thought about getting to the root of that, rather than accepting an unhealthy pattern? I get this... . even my two previous GFs, while probably not BPDs, were definitely waifs. I have also been in quasi-platonic relationships (meaning they crossed unhealthy boundaries) with others who exhibited strong BPD traits, in retrospect.

You mentioned before that your mother is a BPD Queen. Is it possible you are looking for the opposite version of her, but with the same underlying pathologies because it is familiar and comfortable?

This might be a better topic to take to the Personal Inventory Board to get input from senior members processing similar issues.

[Blimblam]

Hi Turkish,

Feel free to move the thread. Yes I understand it's "unhealthy". And tell me more about your other waifs. I just love waifs and I think I am a nonBPD waif male perhaps idk.  I jus love that 2 kids playing make believe dynamic

And my mom is like bipolar manic witch queen waif BPD that rages to an insane degree and is extremely toxic.

I'm just trying to figure out who and what I am. And am curious about BPD traits vs BPD?  And the waif type in general.  I wonder if she is BPD traits waif type and not full blown idk what the difference is.

[Blimblam]

I remember back when I was about 7 or 8 and when a kid younger than me lets say maybe 5 or 6 wanted to play.  They would want to play make believe or pretend and their was a rich fantasy world they still had access to.

When I am with a waif I feel like I have access to this part of myself again.  I feel inspired and like they are my muse bringing the best out of me.

I love that feeling. maybe its not something to be sustained?

From a long term relationship I seem to want equity and to be understood, which seems to have caused my relationships with waifs to fail.

[Red Sky]

I think I kind of get it... . I had a long term relationship in which it sometimes felt like it was 'us against the world'. Which is frightfully romantic until you realise that you actually NEED that world and those other people.

It's the codependent 'I want to be your everything - the centre of your life' thing, and wanting to know you both feel that way. I don't think what you describe is healthy. But I do think plenty of people have a partner who IS massively important to them, and still manage to have a healthy relationship. I've thought my parents exemplify this: they don't have much of a social circle and are pretty much each other's everything - and they are really sweet and happy. Maybe the difference is whether you *need* that support, versus *choosing* to let your partner into your life as much as possible.

[Blimblam]

well every hour my perception on what is real changes more and more pieces of the puzzl

e come together

[Blimblam]

all she provided is that smile and demure that look in her eyes to seduce. and her body. and material goods at first.  all a cover for her lack of a dream.  she has no dream of her own.

she was my muse and soulmate.  she inspired my highest highs and my lowest lows, and she destroyed my ego for something new to rise up in its place.

[Red Sky]

She was a human, like the rest of us. Maybe one with many many many lovable traits. But all the lovable traits in the world can't automatically negate the traits you can't live with. My ex is a LOVELY girl. One of the nicest, funniest people I've met. Doesn't make me feel great about cutting her out of my life... . I think that we both probably need to get to the point where you can accept that you had good times whilst moving on from the bad.

[DontPanic]

So, how would you avoid the other side of the coin? you know the side where the child in her tantrums at you for no reason at all? how would one propose to make that work... because as you know once that happens and the splitting takes place the game is over and you are going to be painted blacker than black... so how would you propose controlling how someone else feels 24X7? thats the mental ilness part on both sides. hers is that she wants someone to take care of her and and you that you would take care of her. then you fail (only in her mind usually as her perception of reality is skewed) and bam your black... sounds like pain on a stick... but my view is that if thats what you want tear it on up and let us know how it feels...

[DreamFlyer99]

RedSky, brilliantly said:

I think I kind of get it... . I had a long term relationship in which it sometimes felt like it was 'us against the world'. Which is frightfully romantic until you realise that you actually NEED that world and those other people.

i think the code word in the early part of your question, Blimblam, is "fantasy." You aren't actually looking for an adult relationship, you're looking for the plot of a movie, right? That romantic fluff that plays so well on the big screen and makes us say 'ohhh i want that!" What's difficult is when we try to translate that sort of relationship into the Real World of bills to pay and tables to dust and meals to make... . it just doesn't translate. Within an adult relationship there can be some room for fantasy and romance like on the big screen, but the r/s has to withstand the truth of things like running out of toilet paper when you're on the can with diarrhea and you need somebody to get some for you--that stuff doesn't fit most fantasies.

df99

[Red Sky]

i think the code word in the early part of your question, Blimblam, is "fantasy." You aren't actually looking for an adult relationship, you're looking for the plot of a movie, right? That romantic fluff that plays so well on the big screen and makes us say 'ohhh i want that!" What's difficult is when we try to translate that sort of relationship into the Real World of bills to pay and tables to dust and meals to make... . it just doesn't translate. Within an adult relationship there can be some room for fantasy and romance like on the big screen, but the r/s has to withstand the truth of things like running out of toilet paper when you're on the can with diarrhea and you need somebody to get some for you--that stuff doesn't fit most fantasies.

df99

Haha. Amazingly this kind of thing is EXACTLY why my relationship broke up. I could rationalize his behavior towards me by telling myself that he had issues *which he would and could work through* (he couldn't), that we were 'passionate', that nobody understood.

He once mentioned marriage, jokingly. And it made me think about the future and ask myself terribly unromantic questions. The three below actually crystallized in my mind why I had to get out of there, more than anything that actually happened.

1. Do they leave dishes in the sink? (This is a big no-no for me.) How would they react if you asked them not to leave dishes in the sink?

2. What would happen if I got an amazing job opportunity in another country? Would they stop you? And if they got an amazing job in another country, how would they expect you to react?

3. (very morbid) Say we have a couple of young children and I find I have cancer. How will you deal with it?

Once I realized that 1. I couldn't happily live with him, 2. He would probably stop me from seizing life's opportunities but demand to get his own chances, and 3. in a crisis he would probably be thoroughly narcissistic... . Well that was the end of that 

[woodsposse]

1. Do they leave dishes in the sink? (This is a big no-no for me.) How would they react if you asked them not to leave dishes in the sink?

2. What would happen if I got an amazing job opportunity in another country? Would they stop you? And if they got an amazing job in another country, how would they expect you to react?

3. (very morbid) Say we have a couple of young children and I find I have cancer. How will you deal with it?

Once I realized that 1. I couldn't happily live with him, 2. He would probably stop me from seizing life's opportunities but demand to get his own chances, and 3. in a crisis he would probably be thoroughly narcissistic... . Well that was the end of that 

I'm a little lost on the points, hope you don't mind me asking a few clarifying questions.

1.  I think we all have our own pet peeves (yours is dishes in the sink).  So what happens when you allow your partner to know and understand what your pet peeves are and they are mature enough to understand that and can go with that with you?  I mean, I don't like a messy kitchen either, I figure if we can do the dishes, lets do the dishes - but sometimes things happen and can't we just go with the flow - it's not like walking in finding your mate in bed with someone (which is sorta a very big pet peeve of mine).

2.  About the job thing - so... . saying "he would probably stop you" from seizing life;s opportunities - isn't that another way of saying you are allowing someone else to set your life happiness (or take it away)?  In that case, would it be him stopping you, or you?

3.  How a person reacts when a loved one is sick is not a great indicator on whether they are good to be around or not.  All of us react differently.  I know I tend to get very stoic... . almost emotionless when that happens.  I hate hate hate being in the hospital visiting a sick loved one. Oh, I'll be there - but I hate it.  It's like all the power is taken away and I can't do anything - and I hate not being able to do anyting.  So my natural defense mechanism is to try and be funny, crack jokes, or try and find something logistical to do.  Mean while, I'm dying inside.

If in that last instance it comes across as being narcissistic versus the fact that I am a human trying to process and deal with overwhelming circumstances - I think that is a little unfair and one sided.

Thoughts?

[Red Sky]

Okay. I guess it's kind of hard to grasp all of them without having all of the context and knowledge of his personality. Some of what I say will probably sound way overblown, so... . Trust me? To me they would mean very different things in a normal relationship and in a relationship with a pwNPD.

Disclaimer: this is going to come off as VERY catty.

1. In a normal relationship, I would say it means are you mature enough to cohabit. For me, it meant that he took it for granted that I cleaned his flat when we didn't even live together. I started cleaning for my own satisfaction, because I loathed the mess in his flat. But he took it for granted that I did his dishes, vacuumed, bought and cooked meals, and drove him places. It might seem like a very small thing but he never said thank you, not once, and I realized that he didn't respect me when I mainly did these things out of kindness. (Occasionally out of 'eww this place is a mess'.  )

2. He feared me being 'more important' than him. We were at uni together and when I won prizes for coming top in the year, and he got Ds, he went on a long rant about self-important academic institutions giving worthless prizes to their own members. He never congratulated me on my first job but spoke continually about his own. And so on.

Would it have been my own fault if I had stayed with him at the sacrifice of my own potential? yup. That's why I left.

3. The idea of having small kids and a serious illness was inspired by someone I know, but the reason why this was a 'red flag' moment has a strange basis in events which occurred. He started to get ill. He asked I drive him home and he demanded that I stay with him in case 'his condition deteriorated'. He had flu, admittedly pretty unpleasant flu, and he knew that in the next week I had a transatlantic flight and a job interview. I got his flu which was inevitable given he made me stay 'in case he had a problem overnight'. When I told him I didn't feel well, he ignored me and continued to demand stuff. I was so ill I could barely stand up for a week. My parents and my grandparents got ill from me, even though I tried to stay away from them. He ignored me, he refused to believe that me or my family were sick. I don't know how that works.

I know I say 'made'... . I know I could have walked out the door at any point... . Call it Stockholm syndrome.

*

So no, what you say doesn't count as narcissistic in my book, loved ones being ill is an incredibly hard thing to deal with. I am a lot like you in how I deal with it. But for him - I could see that if I was ill, he would have been in histrionics over being the sole parent for two kids, milking the sympathy of having a sick wife etc whilst not supporting me. (On this note: once he asked for 'special circumstances' on an exam paper - ie, what you do if you were ill on the day, recently bereaved etc - because of my family crisis.)

So if it sounds uncharitable, my painting him this way... . The reason that this exercise threw up so many red flags for me was because these feelings about how he would act came from my gut. They threw into perspective all of the smaller things which I talk about above, and how they could translate into the big things which would seriously change the course of my life. The small things you can *kind of* ignore, for the fantasy of the great relationship you want to think you have. But seeing what logical conclusions I came to from the small things made me realize I had an issue.

Long story short: you could have different answers than your partner to all three questions and it for sure wouldn't mean that they were a bad person. But for me realizing the way that I painted myself in these scenarios - as someone taken advantage of - was fascinating, because the fantasy for me was that I was an equal partner in a stormy relationship.

[woodsposse]

 

Ah.  Yes, with the correct context I understand your points better.  Thank you for taking the time to clarify.  It really makes a lot more sense now.   

[Red Sky]

Sorry for the waffle! And I hope I didn't come across as too bitter either! I was trying to avoid that in the first post.

I think what I feel is that the tiny 'red flags' are worth not ignoring. That the highs of a relationship like that only feel so good because you know - even if you don't admit to yourself - that the high is temporary. It feels so good because it's a relief from what you've been experiencing. Maybe you have the soaring hope that they have finally worked through their troubles, because isn't that what we all want? But what does life look like if you keep following it down that path and they DON'T change?

[Blimblam]

How a SO treats me when I am injured or ill is really important to me.  That was one of the deal breakers with my ex.  

I guess I can understand how my fantasy sort of thinking could attract borderlines.  Each one I met while the same subtype each had their own unique persona.  

I realize though that the falling in love part is my own responsibility.

Contrary to people thinking they all rage and throw tantrums some don't.  

I seem to attract the as far as borderlines go the diamond in the rough types.  Since I guess they are my type I seem to go for the ones that are waifs with no histrionic tendencies.  Its strange I almost have a radar for them.  After a break up from a long relationship with a non.  I rebounded with a tourist who I met in a grocery store.  When we locked eyes it was like the deal was sealed already.  I was surprised when I got to know more about her she seemed to be my "type."  The fantasy never really took off for me with her though.  Mainly I think because she was lacking in some characteristics of that "special" borderline.  Of whom I met 2.  While they lie or omit truths. They do not rage or instigate tantrums. The problem is they do not tell you when they have already broken up with you in their mind they wait until you are broken and then leave.  Well except one of the special two, she was an American nomad. She hitchhikes around the country with a dog and a backpack. She just leaves she spends her life in transition its up to you to chase her fantasy and I was too busy at the time.

the common trait with the "special" ones is they unwittingly cause just about any guy they work with or spend enough time around to fall in love with them.  they are shy and demure, very quite.  Not the most intelligent to actually have a deep conversation with. They do make you chase them.  Both had tiny waists and wide hips and amazing backside and thighs. I wish I could have documented it better with photography and film.  I think the vast majority of guys that meet them will never get close enough to even really know them. They posses this special aura of feminine beauty like when the girl is playing in the fountain in the Italian movie la dolce vita. Most of all its this look they give you... . its the most beautiful thing Ive seen in life. They have their own unique freestyle of dance that is one of the most beautiful things ive seen in life.  I just guess I know the next time I meet one not to fall in love with them...

[Red Sky]

Oh goodness yes. The diamond in the rough. The messed-up person you feel is fundamentally good. And it's much easier to feel that they are fundamentally good if they don't rage at you or do any of the things that people directly recognize as abusive/unacceptable behavior! Do you think you have a desire to be the 'savior', or is it more about the relationship? Because for me, I've never wanted to fix anyone to bolster my own ego. But when I want a relationship to be successful I will work at it. Including trying to 'fix' my partner.

[Blimblam]

I never wanted to be their savior. Like you though when they needed help I was there for them.  In my mind I treat my partner how I would want to be treated.  Nothing really seemed to be so messed up about them.  Sure they smoke weed and trip out now and then but that's not so out of place.  For one of them the weed was very excessive.  One of them had no complaints she literally would eat out of the trash.  She was just a free spirit probably bag lady for life.  She was literally a waif I knew her when she would pass through town from ages 16-17.  The other one would complain about her problems and if I just nodded my head yes gave no advice and waited for the anxiety to pass we were all good.  Really easy.  Its just they sabotage in other ways.

[Red Sky]

I never wanted to be their savior. Like you though when they needed help I was there for them.  In my mind I treat my partner how I would want to be treated.

This. Exactly this. When it comes to relationships I do my utmost to be respectful, like I would want to be treated. I would say that compared to anyone I've dated I've always been more... . Polite, almost. And it means it's quite easy for what could be a 'high-conflict' relationship to progress without, well, major conflicts.

I've come to the conclusion that I do need to take a firmer hand in relationships, and that if this causes them not to work out then I know I've made a lucky escape... . But yeah, what I would really like to find is someone who treats me with the courtesy I have always tried to provide... .

[Blimblam]

I've come to the conclusion that I do need to take a firmer hand in relationships, and that if this causes them not to work out then I know I've made a lucky escape... . But yeah, what I would really like to find is someone who treats me with the courtesy I have always tried to provide... . [/quote]
Yes, over time they take it for granted. Then when you are in a time of need they are not very reciprocal. In fact if  they are BPD that's when they cheat on you and devalue right when you need them most.  Also this is why communication is so key.

[DreamFlyer99]

I've always been the sort of person to treat others like i want to be treated, but i didn't find that worked well at all with my uBPD/NPD mother or uBPDh.

My mother fit the Witch persona of the 4 types, very bitter, controlling, digging at your self-worth, but could be gloriously glowingly happy when life was going her way. For years i tried to keep up the relationship that neither my sister or brother (both older) would keep--they had walked away years before. But me, i had this magical thinking that "if i keep showing her what a kind and loving and accepting person i am, then surely she will realize who i really am and be kind back!" When she died i was still doing that unsuccessfully.

My h is high-functioning and can be very charming, but when he gets in that rage mode he tears me down and tears me down. i had gone the same route with him, trying to make him happy, trying to be supportive and kind etc etc, but that never made him think "oh! she put together a lovely birthday party for me, i should at least buy a cake for hers" or anything similar. Again i was unsuccessful.

i guess we all have things that are easier to put up with, but the non-reciprocal aspect of these relationships can be so hard! i think that finding someone else in bed with your mate may ALWAYS be a trigger though.

[seeking balance]

BlimBlam,

The original topic on the PI thread is your attraction to and it seems like it has taken a journey towards the BPD behavior.

Overall, I think we all have attractions based on a combination of FOO, our own self worth and our own reinforcements that make us feel good.  The thing that I have learned, the attraction does not have to define us - we can change.

So, the first step would be to look within - what is the common theme you are attracted to?  Is it that someone totally idealizes you - heck, that feels amazing to all of us... . what is your initial hook?

Peace,

SB

[woodsposse]

 

Here is where my head is at - well, at least, today.

I don't think any of us actually go out of our way to want to be in a relationship with anyone who has a PD (be it 'just' depression, bi-polar, uni-polar, BPD, etc).  Whatever the attraction is, whatever the sex is, whtever the honeymoon connection is - I don't think any of us wake up and say "Hey... . I think I want to get into a relationship with someone who will turn my world upside down, and make me feel like crap."

But... . once we are in it (for whatever the reason) it is difficult to get out of it.  Then once we are out of it - and had we not realized what got us there in the first place (either ignoring red flags, or once we start to see things 'change' we rationalize it and/or we got caught up in it and can't leave... . like getting married, having kids, money issues, etc).

Like the good Dr. Phil said (in one of his shows) - and I'm paraphrasing - you can either seek what you want before you get into a relationship, or fix the one that you are in.

Either is possible - especially if both parties really want to work on whatever issues they have collectively and individually.  Long term relationships do require work, compromise, change, growth and all of that.

I think... . to be attracted to and want that wild rush which accompanies any start of a r/s during that goo-goo happy honeymoon idealization phase isn't a bad thing - but if that is all we are looking for, then when that starts to fail (for whatever reason) then the r/s is doomed.  And if either party aren't mature enough to handle an exit - then all sorts of hurts happen.

BPD or not - this sounds like an immature relationship (on both parts).  Immature and unrealistic expectations.

I prefer to go into a r/s knowing what I'm bringing, knowing myself well enough to know what makes me happy (and, not looking toward someone else to "make me happy".  And I certainly don't want the other person to bring the drama to mess up my happiness - or cause me to have to compromise my own values or wants to the point that I'm unrecognizable (I don't care how great the sex is).

That's just me though.

[DreamFlyer99]

So, the first step would be to look within - what is the common theme you are attracted to?  Is it that someone totally idealizes you - heck, that feels amazing to all of us... . what is your initial hook?

Peace,

SB

Such an important question, or we are doomed to repeat the history that failed us once already.

df99