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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: My update - a cautionary tale...  (Read 1107 times)
Harley Quinn
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« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2017, 08:29:58 AM »

Lala,

I was lost for words when I read your post as the tears took over.  Now I have found these for you.

It took such courage and strength to write your heartbreaking story and I can only begin to imagine how you must feel.  Thank you for sharing with all of us your terrifying experience and taking the opportunity to send a message of care to others.  It can't have been easy to write about, much less to go through.  As you heal, I hope that you can have pride in yourself for enduring this and coming out stronger for it.  You are inspiring.  May any remaining scars in the future remind you of your bravery at this time, amazing lady.  Look after yourself well, now and always.

Love and light   
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« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2017, 09:25:48 AM »

Lala      I'm so sorry this happened to you. Our virtual arms are around you.

What is the latest? How are you doing?

heartandwhole

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« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2017, 10:17:26 AM »

Thank you everyone, it helps so much to read your responses and feel supported. This has, without a doubt, been the hardest time in my life.

The latest - The prosecutor wasn't willing to plead down or ask for minimal sentencing. He offered to take the aggravators off the table if ex would plead guilty to felony 2 assault with a sentence of 9 months. And now I wait... .the offer was put out there almost 2 weeks ago, but I've been warned that this process can take some time. I was asked if I would be willing to testify if he refuses to plead, I agreed.

I took my children to the OR coast for the eclipse this past week and I'm so grateful that we had that time together. The weather could not have been more perfect and it was such a blessing to lay down my troubles for a few days. I returned to my classroom as soon as we got home and the past few days have been extremely difficult. Nothing specific to note, everything just feels hard. Taking my restraining order to my director was hard. Explaining my scars to my colleagues has been hard. Trying to wrap my head around everything there is to accomplish before children arrive in the classroom in a week is mind blowing. But I am grateful to have something to focus on that has nothing to do with my ex or the case. There is also an old friend in town and I am so happy that I will be spending time with her over the next few days. (although it is feeding into the general sense of being completely overwhelmed!) I have much to be grateful for.

I heard from my ex's son's (I'll just call him "N" to simplify) grandmother yesterday. She sent an email thanking me for having been the rock in her Grandson's life this past year. She told me that as he talks about his life, it becomes more obvious that I had been the most stable adult he had in recent times. She wanted me to know how grateful she is that I had loved her grandson, took care of him, and have continued to help him transition. I am so glad that he is in such a good place and that this amazing woman has allowed me to continue to know him. (I have visited him a total of 3 times over the past 6 weeks since this happened.) I also am well aware that the time is coming when I will need to let go of N for good so that *I* can move forward and heal. I have been struggling with that so much. I adore him, and I know it was important initially for us to have some contact so that he could know I was ok, and so that I could be assured that HE was in a good place. But as long as I have contact with him, I can't let go of his Dad completely (and I fear it will make it harder for him to built attachments to his Mom and Grandmother as they become his primary caregivers). The plan has always been (as the stable and currently available adult from his most recent life) to help built a bridge between his old life and new one, walk him across it, and kiss him Goodbye. As damaged as I have been by my ex and his actions, the truest victim in all of this is N. I am so glad to know he is in such a good home, I have nothing but positive feelings about his current environment. But damn is letting go hard. It's a process and I'm getting there.

I saw a plastic surgeon right before my trip. There is a lot that can be fixed and that is good. He injected my scars with steroids to help them flatten, he can laser them later. The bridge of my nose is still crooked and that can be fixed. My septum is crushed, that can be fixed. There is a ridge of scar tissue blocking  one of my nostrils almost 50%, that can be removed. All of this needs to wait about 6 months so that the bones completely set and heal. I feel very good about all of that, though admittedly I would love to be able to have it fixed NOW. Patience has never been my strong suit. And I was disappointed that he agreed with the other doctors that I likely will never get full mobility back. That is improving slightly, I hope that eventually it will be barely noticable. In general, I am feeling better about my appearance now that I know the most obvious things can be helped.

One foot in front of the other and day by day. I am still prone to random bouts of tears, but yesterday I also laughed so hard at coffee with a friend that my sides hurt and couldn't catch my breath. It had been a long time since I'd done that and it felt good. I'm hopeful that those moments will become my "normal" soon.

Thank you everyone. Your support is everything... .

Lala
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« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2017, 02:32:44 PM »

That's good news about the surgery etc.
As for the plea bargaining - a vile system. In the UK we dont have this. They either walk or do major time.

Judging by your injuries it sounds to me like attempted murder would have been a more appropriate charge. thank goodness he didn't have a knife when he attacked you.

anyway all the best.
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« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2017, 04:12:30 PM »


Lala,

Would you rather him plead and never face him again.

or

Would you rather go to trial and testify?

No right or wrong answer.  If you are unsure, I would tend to nudge you towards testifying.  I think that standing up for yourself like that would be good.

Did you say you have been in T?

Any idea if "N" is in T?

I had a thought.  If N is in T... .perhaps there is a contact to make there and let the T know that you are willing to play a role... if T believes it to be productive.

I do agree that longer term you will likely need to fade away.  Perhaps to "once a year aunt" status... .who knows.

Here is the thing... .This is about relationships that are important to you.  This is about relationships that are important to N.

If N's Dad has done things that place him outside those relationships (which he has)... .I would be reluctant to change stuff important to me, because of someone else's misdeeds.

Above all... .I would trust the judgment of a good T as to level of involvement with child

Last:  So glad to hear there is a way forward on your scars and surgery. 

   

FF
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« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2017, 04:46:09 PM »

FF - I've thought about that a lot and my answer changes frequently depending on how strong I am feeling. Sometimes I think about walking into a courtroom to face him and can trigger a full blown panic attack. Other times I feel like I NEED to tell my story and confront him, and worry I will have regrets if I don't. At the end of the day I think I'm leaning slightly towards hoping that he pleads because it guarantees that a felony conviction will stand on his record. He can be extremely charismatic and charming when it suits him, and while it seems like there is ample evidence, it would gut me if he charmed his way out of a conviction somehow.

I saw N yesterday and could not have been happier with the progress he's making. The first few visits he wanted to talk extensively about his Dad and had a lot of questions about what happened. (Do you hate my Dad? They say you aren't friends anymore, but why can't you make up like the other times? If he's sorry, why can't it go back to the way it was? If you aren't my Dad's friend can you still be my friend? He had scratches on his arms and face when he came back, did you do that? If my Dad is mad at you is it ok if I still love you?) I answered as honestly and age appropriately as possible and always made sure that Grandma was aware of these interactions. Generally we agreed he needed to have these conversations as part of his process, and he was not willing to talk much about his Dad with Grandma. (I think that was because he had learned to compartmentalize "Mom's house" and family and ":)ad's house" because my ex was so threatened when N spoke positively about what happened at Moms house.) Yesterday he didn't talk about his Dad a single time. He talked with tremendous enthusiasm about his new bike, reading the Hardy Boys at bedtime, his upcoming camping trip, his trip to Gameworks with his Mom, and some funny stories about the dogs. It was wonderful to see him so happy. He starts therapy next week and I will mention to Grandma that I'm happy to talk with the T to give any relevant information as well as how best to proceed with having any contact with N moving forward. I know that I will always have contact with Grandma and in that way will know how he is doing. And if seeing him at an occasional function is something the therapist thinks would be ok than I would love to do it. But I do not want to hold him back from fully bonding and embracing his new life, and do not want to make him feel conflicted about seeing me once his Dad is out of jail. I can't imagine ex will regain full custody, but I'm sure he will have visitation of some kind.

I've been putting a lot of thought into my relationship with N and why we became so close. I love kids, I have kids, I'm a teacher, and it's very "natural" for me to "Mom" little ones. But it was more than that. And I realized that he and I had our own bonds formed through trauma. Ex would do his BPD thing, and frequently N and I would be standing together on the other side trying to mitigate and figure things out. It sounds corny, but it's like we were on the same "team" in that way. I am just so grateful he's in a place now where he never has to walk on eggshells, anticipate possible emotional responses, or form attachments to other adults "for protection".

It's a complicated situation to say the least and I'm bumbling about just trying my hardest to do the right thing. Thanks for your input!

Lala
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« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2017, 06:06:03 PM »


Few things.

Are you in T?  

So... .N hasn't been in T, but starts next week... .right?

My reaction is that it would be good for you guys to maintain some kind of relationship.  Again... .I wouldn't  give any thought to impact that your r/s would have on the Dad or Ns r/s with his Dad.

Boundaries! Remember.  

I think this could be powerful lesson/example for N that he can have relationships with people that don't like each other, or for whatever reason have chosen not to have a relationship with each other.

 N and you.  N and Dad.  N is ok with r/s with each... . you and Dad don't have r/s.  You are ok with his r/s with Dad.  :)ad will do whatever he does.

Final thought.  The impact of your r/s with N (both ways... .you to him and him to you) is obvious and deep in your posts.  Please don't let someone outside that r/s destroy that.

Boundaries.

Now... .if T has concerns... .very important.  And I also think it proper you "step back" some.  Let T guide you how much.

I wouldn't worry about his charm in court.  There seem to be facts here... .he did it.  

A T could help guide you on this.


FF
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« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2017, 02:59:31 PM »

I disagree with Formflier on this. I think your current role, helping to bridge N's relationship to his new guardian, is more than generous. Unless your abuser has his parental rights terminated, continuing a relationship with N means being entangled with your abuser. And you need to protect yourself by avoiding that.
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« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2017, 08:06:49 AM »

I also agree with Lala that pleading as charged is the most secure way to ensure a conviction. All kinds of things happen in the court system that have nothing to do with what happened factually. I say that as someone who participated in making that be true (as a defense lawyer).

Lala, I experienced serious physical abuse in my marriage (not with the man I mostly post here about). I testified in our divorce trial because my exH wouldn't agree to the terms I needed to keep my kid safe. It was empowering in the way you imagine, and also awful in the way you also imagine. He was representing himself so cross-examined me himself. We are cordial these days and I see him because we have a kid together whom he sees occasionally, but she mostly wants to do that with me present. Bottom line: you don't have control of the court process and anything might happen; all you have control of is how you handle yourself.

You've done a marvelous job with N. Lucky kid (relatively speaking), and this will undoubtedly help him have a frame for manipulative behaviors his dad also directed and would have directed and likely will still direct at him. Seems to me you need make no black and white decisions about how that goes forward. You may remain part of his "found" family for years to come, if grandma passes and he needs someone trustworthy to ask for advice. Letting it be what it is and should be over time without forcing it makes sense to me.

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« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2017, 08:16:05 PM »



Hey... .no intent here to "argue" my point.  Perhaps it was misunderstood.

1.  It seems obvious that Lala has a great fondness for N and enjoys her relationship with him.
2.  I got a sense that she was thinking she "would have to" limit or drop contact with N because of changing circumstances and because the disordered Dad is likely to be part of N's life in the future.


I try to resist any thinking that says because a disordered person is going to do x then I must do Y.  Especially if it is a "may do" kinda thing.

Said another way... .

If Lala thinks it best to distance from N... then I'm all for it.
If N's T thinks it best... .then I'm all for it
I can think of a number of other reasons I would be "for" putting distance in Lala's r/s with N.

Because N's Dad may be back around in the future is not one of those reasons.  Cross that bridge when you get there and/or use appropriate boundaries.

Hope this clarifies my "stance".

FF
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« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2017, 10:08:30 AM »

Because N's Dad may be back around in the future is not one of those reasons.

See, this is the point I disagree with. He's not just a "disordered person." He's a person who violently assaulted her and could have killed her.
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« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2017, 10:36:23 AM »

See, this is the point I disagree with. He's not just a "disordered person." He's a person who violently assaulted her and could have killed her.

Oh... .I see... .I think I see our disconnect.

There may be a point if the future where this presents itself and may not be solvable... .and Lala may need to step back further... .or totally. 

That is not the case today and as I make assumptions about the future... .I don't see it becoming an issue "for the near future". 

Said another way... .I certainly wouldn't ever suggest Lala and this guy ever have contact. 

Now that I think about it more... .I would suggest that Lala consider possible civil remedies (post conviction) to further emphasize him staying away from her.

I would hope that the majority of the impact of "them staying apart" is felt by the assaulter and not the "victim".  So... .let's say in the future it is a known thing they will be at same event.  I would hope that he is the person that "has to" bow out of the event because of orders not to be around her... .vice her having to alter her life (too much) "not being around him".

I would extend this same thinking to her relationships.

I hope this is a bit more understandable... .I'm a bit worried that I'm over explaining and muddling my point.

Wouldn't be first time I've done that...

FF
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« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2017, 10:43:41 AM »

Yeah... .I didn't quite follow all that. But, we don't need to go round and round on this in Lala's thread. My recommendation that the best way to keep away from someone dangerous and violent is to just keep away from him, not to hope that legal structures/incentives/processes will serve as effective barriers.
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« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2017, 12:06:40 PM »


Yep... .I agree we shouldn't "hijack" her thread much longer... ... ..but I think there is value how you apparently look at this and how I look at it.

We certainly teach here to not making decisions based on "fear, obligation and guilt".  Just like any "rule" it can be taken too far.  Certainly there are times when you should make a decision... .for no other reason that you "fear" something. 

The issue seems to be when you have a "pattern" in your life of deciding "because of" fear, vice using fear to inform your decisions.

So... .I would be entirely supportive of anyone deciding to skip some particular event because of a fear of bumping into a persecutor.  That's called thinking things through for that event.

That's very different that saying I will "never again" do xyz because of a "fear" of someone else.

A healthy life is lived somewhere in the middle... .

OK... I'm ready to surrender to the swat team to end the hijack.  Good discussion.


FF
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2017, 05:39:45 PM »

Yes, a good discussion, and I think it happened because Lala's selfless example stoked a little passion in us to think through ways to continue to help N.  Backing up from the details to look at the whole, perhaps this discussion could be taken as a gentle offering to Lala that she may have more choices in the future that just the one.  There are even more possibilities -- she could stay in touch with the grandmother and reconnect with N when he is 18.  But Lala doesn't need to make any final decisions now.  Healing takes a tremendous amount of energy.  The grace with which Lala has dealt with the situation with N has been truly epic and makes me certain she will choose a good path when the time comes.  Even if it is no more than she has already done, I am sure it will make a lasting difference for him.

Lala, please keep us posted on how you are doing!
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« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2017, 05:16:36 PM »

Hi everyone! I had an out of town friend visiting for a week and then dove head on into playing catch up with my classroom prep - I am just reading many of these replies.

Wentworth - thank you for your kind words, I teared up reading them. I have made many mistakes over the course of this relationship and since, but I have had only the purest of intentions where N is concerned. I could not abandon him when his whole world had been thrown into total chaos, and it has meant so much that his grandmother recognized our connection and allowed me to be in his life. In a situation that has been truly wretched and painful, seeing N's progress has been a ray of light.

And Flourdust and FF - hijack away! Both of you have helped me solidify things that I've already been thinking about. I think that letting go of N to a certain extent is one of those things that is appropriate now that the immediate crisis has passed. Grandma and I have agreed to stay in touch. I know that I will see him again. But he has returned to school, I've returned to work. He is in a wonderful home where he is loved and well cared for. I've told Grandma he can call me anytime for any reason. This isn't "goodbye".

But he represents in a very tangible way the future that I had, at one time, hoped to have. I needed to know he was going to be ok. I NEEDED that. But now it's time to move on from being "so" close. Because it hurts. And it means, no matter how well intentioned, I hear about my ex. Last time I dropped off, grandma and I got to talking about how completely ex spins reality to avoid responsibility. As an example, she mentioned that he has been telling people that he hit me because he had to protect N. (The implication being that I was going to hurt N somehow I guess?) While I still have no memory of the actual assault, I KNOW this is absolutely not true, and hearing that gutted me all over again. I spent most of that evening anxiously wondering if he could actually convince people that it had happened that way and emotionally spiraling. I know Grandma wasn't telling me to cause anguish, but these are the kinds of inevitable interactions that I am feeling the need to guard myself from to some extent.

So the reality is, in addition to knowing that ex might have a bad reaction to continued contact, THAT is only one of a myriad of factors.

I had to chuckle talking to a friend last night - for 20 years I led the most "vanilla" life anyone could ask for. Now I can't find simplicity to save my life and even figuring out what to make for dinner seems like a huge task some evenings. But things are improving and I have faith they will continue to do so. Thank you as always for your kindness, wisdom, and support!

Lala
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« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2017, 05:32:42 PM »

 
Well thought out... .focused on what you need to take care of you and move forward with your life.  Solid work!   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

When you do have continued contact with Grandma, I would be upfront with her about your desire to not talk about the Dad.  I can completely see how that would be hurtful.

FF
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2017, 11:53:39 PM »

Lala,

Thank you so much for letting us hear your update, for your eloquence, and for your kind words Smiling (click to insert in post)  May you have a wonderful fall in your classroom, and here's to some "vanilla" days ahead!
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« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2017, 02:58:27 PM »

I'm glad to hear you're taking control back and feeling some improvement. As I'm sure you know, it's not a linear path to recovery. Take each day as it comes, and don't beat yourself up if you fall down on some of those days.

Anything special or pleasant you are looking forward to this fall?
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« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2017, 03:21:58 PM »

Hello Lala,

I am so sorry what happened to you. I am also amazed about how you are handling all of this. This shows me that you will make it through, and you will thrive.

About you seeing the son of your ex, my opinion is that it could be beneficial for him if you keep contact. We never have enough people in our lives who love us. I don't think it would prevent him to bound with his grandmother - on the contrary. On the other hand you are giving some very good reasons to take a step backwards in all of that. Please always remember, you are the most important person in your life. Trust your own judgement. Your feelings are important.

xx
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« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2017, 11:36:48 AM »

I had to chuckle talking to a friend last night - for 20 years I led the most "vanilla" life anyone could ask for. Now I can't find simplicity to save my life and even figuring out what to make for dinner seems like a huge task some evenings.

You had a concussion and brain injuries take a long time to heal. I know. I had my concussion in January. I got over most of the obvious symptoms a number of months ago, but I still struggle with some things from time to time, such as making decisions, feeling motivated, getting organized, having my energy back.

I had cranial-sacral treatment done after my concussion and it would be good for me to do some more of that. It really helped. Also a veterinarian friend told me about doing neurofeedback--it's really helped her a lot.

For me, it's like there are little particles remaining, sort of bits of dust left over from the concussion--and I'd like to sweep these away. I'm seeing a physical therapist for my shoulder rehab and she, and my doc have both said that sometimes it takes at least a year to fully recover from a concussion. I'd like to speed this up.

Not only were you injured physically, but being brutalized so physically, you have other invisible injuries. I hope that you've found a therapist to work with you to deal with those. Having been physically harmed by my ex, I know how valuable therapy is in recovery.

     Cat
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2017, 04:35:02 PM »

I hope you haven't had any lingering effects from your concussion. Some people don't. But in case you have, I want you to know about treatment options and that they can really help.

Most days I feel really good and back to normal, however today I find myself feeling more emotional, less grounded and lacking energy and motivation.

Having been reassured by health care professionals that TBIs take a lot of time and energy, I can relax and not worry. It's frustrating to not be able to summon my will and energy, but I know it's a passing thing and I just need to rest a bit. Tomorrow I'll probably feel energetic and enthusiastic again. It's just a process of healing.

I wish you the best in your recovery of mind, body and spirit. Your strength is an inspiration and will serve you well. Be especially kind to yourself and as much as possible, take the time to rest and recharge.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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