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Author Topic: Can't get past the guilt, but I really don't want this anymore  (Read 1190 times)
ozmatoz
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« on: October 09, 2017, 11:41:11 AM »

I've been bouncing around boards for awhile because I haven't really been sure what my status is/was.

I can say firmly now after last week's garbage I should be here, but I am REALLY stuck and struggling and need some help.  I can barely function right now and feel like I'm shutting down. Guilt part is down below if you want to skip the recent recap.

Quick re-cap we've been fighting through her request for divorce from 3 years ago, her year long affair (2 years ago), my 3 month emotional affair (early this year).  We've had a DV incident a couple of months back where she was arrested (case dismissed) that she still blames me for.
I have the typical blame shifting, emotional dysregulation, rage incidents and SEVERE FOG.  I recognize that I own many issues in the relationship that were mistakes but not all of them.

Two fridays ago when things were getting terribly heated along with the threats to get me fired and take the kids she started seeing an attorney and told me she was filing.  She told me specifically that she was offering me a chance to pickup papers rather than be served.  I told her I would prefer to pick them up.  Following Monday and Tuesday she hinted that she hadn't done anything yet and was still considering a joint petition.  I saw email comm between her and her lawyer so I know she had in fact been to see her.  Tuesday morning she told me she sold her rings but needed more cash to finish the retaining fee.  I met her at the bank, gave her the cash (it was a demand rather than a request).  I called the attorney I had spoke to previously and let her know I needed to finally retain her.  I signed the papers and my mother who was in the area offered to run the check to the office.  Fast forward a few hours and my attorney called my wife's only to find out that my wife NEVER actually retained her.  Well that set of a nuke in the relationship... .how dare I actually retain an attorney, how dare I not give her the heads up that I was actually retaining one, how dare I do something that she couldn't bring herself to actually do.  How dare I include my parents into this?

My wife with D10 in the car called me over the bluetooth so D10 could hear and started asking why Nonny and Daddy were ganging up to hurt mommy.  D10 fought back saying that she didnt believe her and that Nonny and Daddy would never do anything like that.  My mom was so angry she drove to our house.  My wife wouldnt let her in the house and was threatening to call the police if she didnt leave.  D10 saw nonny and ignored wife's instructions to stay in the house and ran out through the garage to see her grandmother.  I arrived at home in the middle of this and asked my mother to leave until things could calm down.  Now wife has removed my mother from the school pickup list and I have lost my after school care.  She tells me that there will never be any more relationship with my parents ever.  They've helped us a ton when D10 was in the hospital and even helped us financially to allow us to buy our home.  To cut them out is ridiculous.

This is the guilt part

Then all week has been the 6-8 hours of text per day of picture of my girls with statements like "Look at them!"  "How could you do this to them?" "How come they weren't enough for you?" "you're not a man"  "Anyone who could do this to his family doesn't deserve them" "Are you proud of yourself yet?  Going to rip their lives apart?" ":)16 is finally in a happy place and you are going to ruin her!"

Talk about heart wrenching.  Top this off with the fact that we have a beautiful new home, nice cars, great neighborhood and amazing friends.  It really feels like I would be doing the wrong thing by leaving.  I feel like I would be literally throwing away everything that many people never have a chance to have.  It feels incredibly selfish.
Yet here I am and I'm scared to death.  Earlier this year when I started making new friends and getting out more, I got a taste of what "normal" life could be.  My T has helped me uncover what I'm up against.

I just can't do it.  I can't stay with her, but I can't leave her and the kids.
I just don't think I'm strong enough.  I'm young enough (39) that I can rebuild and find something, its not like haven't had/have options but again it feels like I'm being selfish and I really can't cope.  I've pretty much stopped communications with my wife.  She keeps telling me that I need to step the f up and love her and the kids fully or get out of the way so someone else can.

-conflicted & exhausted
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2017, 12:18:10 PM »

Excerpt
I can't stay with her, but I can't leave her and the kids.

Hey Oz, That's the quandary, isn't it?  I was once in your shoes.  I was married to a pwBPD, with two kids, and couldn't find my way out of the woods.  Instead, I continued to exhaust all my resources -- emotional, physical and financial -- until there was nothing left in the tank, so-to-speak.  I crash landed, which is not fun, believe me.  Suggest you be careful about taking care of yourself and recharging your batteries while you figure it out.  What about your needs?  What is the right path for you?  What would you like to see happen?

LuckyJim
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2017, 12:46:11 PM »

Thought about trying a legal separation?

This isn't all on you. You are being abused.

A separation might be a good step. It still leaves the door open and it is up to her to close it if you want.

Keep documenting everything that you can. When your kids are old enough they will understand.
I was not a good parent with my ex.
If you can detach some and heal, set some new boundaries. You will be a better parent.

The kids will see the truth. Mine did.
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ozmatoz
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2017, 01:55:29 PM »

LuckyJim: How old were your kids when you finally split?  I'm definitely empty tank right now.  I almost wish she would just up and go rather than take more abuse about how much of a loser I am.  But I don't think she'll take that step.  I'm already in a financial hole because I couldn't dare tell her we "couldn't do something".

As far as take care of myself?  That's not really allowed to her.  Right now she expects every moment to be dedicated to showing her and the girls that I am "Stepping up to be the man, husband and father I should be."  What confuses the situation is that I've been stepping up and being there for my kids, but basically leaving her out of it.  She's clearly noticed and the abandonment and self esteem issues are rampant.

Truth be told, I've let other opportunities to meet other (normal) people or to "jump ship" pass me by and I'm just not happy anymore but I am so afraid of making a mistake and upsetting my kids lives.  I know she'll turn all of our friends against me leaving me no support network.

What would I like to have happen?  I'd like to wake up from this nightmare and have a real loving relationship and know my kids are ok.

Hisaccount: We've talked about separation and she feels that she doesn't want to give the kids any false hopes.  Typical thinking, all in, or all out.  During the heat of our fighting I spent the night at my parents house for two nights (not consecutive) and she tells me that was it.  I walked out and abandon my duties to the family and she's sorry she let me back in the house... .  My girls are 10 and 16,  the 10 year old is a little behind due to some medical issues but knows and wants us to stop fighting.  D16 is pretty sharp and loves us both and is really just trying to stay out of it, although I have seen her favor doing things with me over her mother.  Same question for you, how old were your kids when you went through this? 

The only thing I could probably use to help me is that we both agree that the fighting in front of the kids has to stop.  Of course she'll probably turn that on me saying what she always does... "man the f- up and take care of your family"... .

I wish I had a fast forward button and this could be over.  I feel so selfish wanting to be happy knowing the cost it would incur to my children.  I just don't know how to get past that.
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2017, 02:23:09 PM »

Excerpt
I almost wish she would just up and go rather than take more abuse about how much of a loser I am.  But I don't think she'll take that step.

Hey Oz, No, I doubt she'll take that step.  It's up to you, my friend, to figure out the way forward that makes the most sense for you and your kids (I'm excluding her from this calculation at the moment).  I suggest you disregard her taunts about stepping up, being a man, etc., which I view as efforts to manipulate you through F-O-G (fear, obligation and guilt).  Don't buy into these attempts at humiliation, is my suggestion.  Call her bluff, as necessary.

Taking care of yourself is not up to her.  It's your task to do what you need to do to stay in the game, so-to-speak.  You don't need her permission to recharge your batteries.  You just have to do it.  Sounds like you need to do it for yourself.

LJ

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« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2017, 02:36:03 PM »

ozmatoz... .I am so sorry to hear what you're going through. I've been there. My ex did very similar things when I filed for divorce. He repeatedly tried to turn our oldest D10 (at the time) against me. It is parental alienation and it's a horrible thing to do to kids. She's trying to use the kids as pawns to guilt you and manipulate you. Not only does it hurt the kids (and you, it's a nightmarish hell) but the courts do NOT look favorably upon that. Document all of it as much as you can.

This may be a good time to find a good therapist for your kids. It helped mine quite a bit. Getting through the divorce was tough for everyone but especially the kids. My kids are doing much better now. Leaving him was the right thing for me to do, not only for my sanity but for the kids as well. He was emotionally abusive and our relationship was toxic. I didn't want the kids to think that was what a marriage was. I want them to know what a healthy relationship is instead. I got to a point to where I just couldn't take it any more. I could not stand being around him. The marriage counseling wasn't helping. His behavior became more aggressive and abusive. He refused to stop yelling at me in front of the kids. He also treated our oldest (D10, now 12) like an adult and confided in her many times with things no child should hear from their parent.  He refused to stop despite even his lawyer telling him to stop it. I had enough and knew I had to get out.

What helped me during that time was documenting it all (for my lawyer) and sharing it with my therapist. She helped me to see that his behavior was not healthy for me or the kids. His behavior was only hurting them. He blamed me for it. I heard it all from him... .that I was being selfish, breaking up the family, etc. The amount of guilt he was trying to lay on me was staggering to me. I just couldn't take it anymore. What he was doing was worse on the kids but he refused to see it. I did not want that for my kids. If I had stayed, I would have resented him even more for trapping me in a marriage I no longer wanted to be in. That's not good for the kids either.

It's hard to get past their guilt trips. It took time for me to realize what I was doing was best for me and the kids. How can I be there for my children when I couldn't even stand up for myself? I was an emotional wreck. My anxiety was through the roof being around him. I didn't sleep very well.  It wasn't healthy by any means. He re-traumatized me (per both my therapist and our marriage counselor) and he actually justified it. Somehow it was my fault. My youngest (D3 at the time) witnessed the incident and remembers it to this day (D5 now). I feel really sad she saw it but glad to know there won't be any more times like that. If I had stayed, who knows what other horrible things they would have seen or heard from him.  With a good therapist, time, and enforcing good boundaries, I realized it wasn't all my fault. This isn't all your fault either. It takes two to make a marriage. I believe the cost to children by staying in a bad abusive marriage is far worse. My children were starting to act out by physically hurting the cats. They stopped acting out like that once we physically separated (he moved out) and things calmed down a bit. I was able to take care of myself which helped me take care of the kids much better.

You also have to do what is good for you. You need to be healthy so you can be there for your kids. Leaving her does not mean you're leaving the kids. That is where a good lawyer can help you. You'll know what your rights are as well as what rights your family has.

What also helped me was to read up on how to help your kids with a high conflict parent. When my ex still tries to alienate her, I'll ask my oldest (D12) what she thinks about it. She's actually really perceptive and seems to realize her dad has issues.  I've worked really hard to not say anything bad about him to her no matter what he says and does. It's not easy but it's better for the kids. It took time but she now sees through his lies and manipulation.

It also helped me to not engage with him when he became aggressive and raged at me. There were times when it took every ounce of self control I had to not react emotionally to his crap. He then escalated trying to get me to "snap" so he could "prove" I was the unstable one. I saw what he was trying to do and refused to engage. I did everything I could do to de-escalate situations in front of the kids. My oldest remembers that and I believe it showed them how to handle high conflict people.

Trying to get a good support network in place can be tough too. It's tough not knowing who will stick by you and who won't. At least now I know who my true friends are. You have your family, right? You may be pleasantly surprised that you have more supportive friends than you think.
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ozmatoz
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2017, 03:19:53 PM »

You also have to do what is good for you. You need to be healthy so you can be there for your kids. Leaving her does not mean you're leaving the kids. That is where a good lawyer can help you. You'll know what your rights are as well as what rights your family has.

I am the fire, thank you so much for your response, I'm trying so hard to not hate myself through this process.

When it comes to the kids I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.  I am the breadwinner and work full time (and then some) with an hour commute each way.  She's been only working part time and generally does most of the daily care for the kids (drs appointments, hair cuts, school pickup).
I am very involved in their lives, I go to all the plays, recitals, coach their teams, read stories, go running, play games, movies, dinners... .  My attorney said that as an involved parent I should be able to get 50/50 or close to it, but in reality I probably cannot physically make that work.  Throw in the fact that D10 has some medical issues and my wife will very likely end up with a very favorable custody arraignment for her.  If I fight too hard, my wife will engage in horrible tactics such as trying to get me fired, and threats to move the kids out of state... .  She is definitely better to use honey rather than vinegar with her.  She is a true powder keg ready to explode. 
How do I leave knowing that I'll end up getting the short end of the stick here? I don't want the kids to be poisoned by her, but if I fight too hard she'll make it her duty to "F- my life up".

No joke, in her eyes what's best for the kids is I disappear and continue to pay all the bills and let them live in the house while she finds new happiness to model for her children... .

I feel so stuck, thank you again for your response.
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I_Am_The_Fire
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2017, 04:16:20 PM »

I really feel for you. I was the breadwinner as well even though we both worked full-time. I also did the majority of the kids' daily care on top of it. I think it's wonderful you're as involved as you are. My ex was not and we still ended up with 50/50 even though I had proof of his parental alienation attempts. It wasn't enough in my case. He also tried to prove I was an unfit mother (I'm not). It didn't work but it was hell.

It does sound like you are in a really tough spot. My ex tried to make things as difficult as possible during the whole process and I wasn't mentally or emotionally prepared for any of it. Even after twenty years with him, I had to prepare myself for the unknown which was extremely difficult. My therapist helped me with this part a lot. She helped me find ways to cope with the stress as well as enforcing my boundaries. It wasn't easy by any means but it wasn't impossible.

I was scared he would take off with the kids. So I made a list of "what ifs" and talked it over with both my therapist and lawyer. If he left the state with the kids, how do we handle it? It helped me with my anxiety about the whole thing. Have you tried something like this?  Also, you can get things like this addressed in the parenting plan and settlement agreement, even temporary orders.

I also realized my ex bluffed a LOT. Most of the time he never followed through with his threats. At work, I gave my manager a heads up about what was going on. I was also afraid he would try something at work. Thankfully he didn't. He was just bluffing. My manager was VERY understanding about it and put my mind at ease about work. Basically, I had to think through "what if he followed through on his threats" and come up with possible solutions. The problem is not getting sucked into a game of  crazy "what ifs" that spiral you into depression. How likely is it she would follow through on her threats?

At the end of the divorce, it ended up being a balancing act. He finally had a decent attorney who strongly supported settling out of court. Probably because my ex did not portray himself favorably in court during the first go around. He got a lecture from the judge regarding his alienation attempts (I had them documented). I even kept a journal of every single incident involving the kids that I testified on. I believe it helped.

I also had to figure out what I could live with in terms of parenting time, finances, the house, etc. My attorney and I drew up an agreement that I could live with and that was extremely generous to him. My ex kept rejecting it for whatever reason. When he got a second attorney (I'm pretty sure the first one quit), my attorney worked with his attorney directly. His attorney agreed with the settlement and parenting plan we had come up with. Looking back it feels kind of silly and sad, but the three of us had to present it to my ex as if he "won" and I "lost" even though it was pretty fair overall. So we had to present it to him in a way to make it look like he was screwing me over when in reality he wasn't. I wish I had learned that earlier on in the process. It may have helped de-escalate things.

Have you thought about what would work for you in terms of the kids and a parenting plan? My attorney had several options for me to consider and it helped my anxiety about it. What type of arrangement could you live with? During the whole thing, I realized I didn't really care about the house or the material things. I just wanted to be free of him and to be with my kids. So I learned to let go of a LOT of things. Material possessions can be replaced. Kids cannot. Material possessions and money were very important to my ex which worked in my favor.

I also highly recommend the book "Will I Ever Be Free Of You?" by Karyl McBride. My ex is not only BPD but NPD. This book helped me get through the process as well. It also helped a lot that my lawyer spotted his NPD\BPD without my having to say anything about it.

Looking back, I think I felt overwhelmed by the whole process at first. I learned to take it one step at a time. I made many lists. It helped me to write down my fears and work through them with someone like my therapist, my lawyer, and/or a good friend I could trust. It's rough. Hang in there.
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I_Am_The_Fire
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2017, 04:21:40 PM »

I also agree with the above posts. Like what LuckyJim mentioned... .have you read up on FOG (fear, obligation, guilt)?

www.BPDcentral.com/blog/?Fear-Obligation-and-Guilt-FOG-in-High-Conflict-Relationships-36

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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2017, 04:45:29 PM »



Hisaccount: We've talked about separation and she feels that she doesn't want to give the kids any false hopes.  Typical thinking, all in, or all out.  During the heat of our fighting I spent the night at my parents house for two nights (not consecutive) and she tells me that was it.  I walked out and abandon my duties to the family and she's sorry she let me back in the house... .  My girls are 10 and 16,  the 10 year old is a little behind due to some medical issues but knows and wants us to stop fighting.  D16 is pretty sharp and loves us both and is really just trying to stay out of it, although I have seen her favor doing things with me over her mother.  Same question for you, how old were your kids when you went through this? 


My kids were 6 and 13

Kids are smart, they might be playing on your sympathy as much as mom is.

If I were you, I would get a pocket recorder. Record the crap she says. Then you have something to back you up.
One thing lawyers do is muddy the water. Make it look like both parties are bad.
Then you go to children raising classes or something. You change and she doesn't.
It is really messed up.
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« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2017, 09:31:52 AM »

Thank you everyone.  Last night into this morning have been rough, I tried to be honest and open with some of my feelings and answer some of her questions but all she heard was that I am choosing not to love her which was followed by how dare you not love me.  When pressed as to why I couldn't step up to love her I'm left reeling without a way to answer.  I've tried to tell her in the past that all of her negative comments and making fun of me for confiding in my parents really takes a toll.  I've tried to explain to her that when I hear comments about how instead of a married couple lifting each other up when one falls she would laugh at me as I fell and kick me while I'm down don't do anything to help me WANT to love her.  My T said it best, in order to be loved she needs to be a lovable person.  When I talk about these things she calls me a p--sy and that no wonder I can't do anything right, I'm still a boy and you'd think my 39 you'd figure out how to be a man... .

I am the fire, again thank you for your kind words.  I will look into that book right away I do believe my wife has really shown to be NPD as well. 
I made list about feelings, I made lists about pros and cons of divorce, lists of what I wanted in life when I was young vs now... .She ripped through my car and found these and now uses them as a hammer over my head... .  "See, right here on this list... .it shows that you don't want your kids... .you only want to be a part time parent... .thats all you're good at"
I've tried to keep a journal, but the only safe place I can do it is at work and it has not been consistent.  Sometimes I just don't have the energy to keep it up.

Hisaccount, I've tried recording some things before, both with her knowing and sometimes not knowing and it has blown up in my face.  The day she knew ended up with the cops at our house and she was arrested for DV.  She is all over me in every regard and there is no possible way for me to hide these things.

Clearly I am being verbally abused but I somehow can't escape the pain (and FOG) I'm trying but when the consequences of trying to create boundaries or just start the divorce process are huge and hurtful I just can't summon the strength.  I'm truly afraid I'm making a mistake because now that I (kind of) understand how and why she thinks I'm being selfish for not sticking it out even though I know it will always be at the detriment to myself.

It is however through these boards and your comments and help that I am at least awake and functioning, thank you everyone.
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« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2017, 10:28:18 AM »

Excerpt
When I talk about these things she calls me a p--sy and that no wonder I can't do anything right, I'm still a boy and you'd think my 39 you'd figure out how to be a man... .

Hey Oz, My BPDxW said roughly the same things to me, which I suggest you disregard.  It's just taunting and goading, in an effort to manipulate you.  I suspect that, behind all their bluster and bullying, those w/BPD are actually operating from the perspective of a hurt child, but are too scared to address their deeper issues.

LuckyJim
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« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2017, 10:45:03 AM »

One thing that I see looking back about my relationship is I never spent time looking for a solution for me. I was so focused on her. On making it work. On finding a way to get through each day.
Never stepped back to look at the bigger picture. Never saw what she did to me, what I had turned into.
My guilt was to her, knowing to me she was a retarded child or a teenager inside. How could I walk away from that without guilt?

If I had been able to get away and see me, what I had become during the relationship I would have approached things differently much sooner.
It probably would have led to divorce sooner but I just never took the time that I needed for me. It left me more devastated that it should have.
I was also isolated, I had no friends to lean on. I had to chase them off or give them up because my ex demanded it.
All sculpted to keep me trapped.

It is good there is a DV on her record. That helps your side.

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« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2017, 12:31:29 PM »

One thing that I see looking back about my relationship is I never spent time looking for a solution for me. I was so focused on her. On making it work. On finding a way to get through each day.
Never stepped back to look at the bigger picture. Never saw what she did to me, what I had turned into.
My guilt was to her, knowing to me she was a retarded child or a teenager inside. How could I walk away from that without guilt?

Guilt indeed, also I feel guilty that the way the courts are and despite the DV (charges dismissed) she'll end up with primary custody due to my circumstances and I won't be around to protect the girls from her BS.  I know when I'm at the house they lean on me.

Great point though about seeing yourself.  I can see and KNOW that I am not myself, I've been beaten down into a corner and just surviving.  Earlier this year on a 5 day business trip across country (and time zones) I had very LC with her and could really just be me at the convention and around my co-workers.  When we got back even my boss said to me "Gee it was nice to see you out there, it was like we had the old you back!"  That was one of the first times it hit me how much I had changed, how much she throttles me being me.  Of course I can't tell her this because she takes it as rejection and me continuing to try and abandon her.

Its sick that like I am the Fire said I have to make these things out like I'm the one losing, or these are her ideas.  That is why I feel stuck, if I make any definitive move outward the whole world collapses and we are back to the raging and threats.

LuckyJim she did have an abusive father as a child and eventually her parents split.  From what I know (never met him) he was a real jerk.  I believe some of that hatred has been transferred to me.
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« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2017, 02:13:53 PM »

This was a text I received this afternoon:

“I am smart, funny, witty, beautiful, compassionate, passionate, thoughtful, sensual, tenacious and kind. If you don't see that or want me enough to fight like hell to show me love and appreciation and CHOOSE me EVERY single day someone else will.”

I’m not sure how to even reply to this?  Is she many of those traits? Yes, she is. But she is also very mean, and abusive behind closed doors to me, and she cannot admit to owning that a relationship takes two. Most folks would see her and think I was crazy for wanting to pack it in but they don’t see all that we on these boards know exists.

I feel like this is her trying to make me feel like ending the relationship will be my loss not hers... .
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« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2017, 03:25:46 PM »

Hey Oz, Looks like another attempt to manipulate you through fear (someone else will want her).  The F-O-G continues to roll in.  My suggestion: don't fall for it.  Call her bluff, if necessary.

You're right, only those who have been in a BPD r/s can appreciate the issues.  My BPDxW is a gregarious person who was known as the unofficial "Mayor" of our small town.  Little did people know what the Mayor was really like behind closed doors!  At times it was frightening, like something out of a Stephen King book.

Get back to the "old you," as your boss suggests.  I lost myself, too, and had to start from what seemed like scratch.  Suggest you strive for authenticity.

LuckyJim

LJ

 
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« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2017, 03:51:35 PM »

Thanks LuckyJim.  Authenticity.  I like that word.  It conjures up images of me being my old self (albeit with some positive changes).

That is a word of strength I will try to keep it with me in my discussions with her tonight.  She very well may not like the authentic me anyways.

Again thank you,
-Oz
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« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2017, 05:05:48 PM »

Look at it this way. She is chasing you now. You are in control of what happens.

For the first time in a long time you are in control again.

I recently dated one gal that was just a knock out. But then you get to know them and it is a different story.
Turns out she was an ex stripper and knew how to play her game very well. Manipulating people was her whole life.
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2017, 05:26:34 PM »

Oz, I just got my head above water enough to find your thread, and will have to work on a good reply for you.  But three things now:

You are a damn good father.  Your daughters love you.  That will never change. 

You have more power than you think.

You control the timeline.  Find some strength and buy time if it makes sense.

Wentworth

p.s. I continue to be surprised that each and every quote you mention from your wife, mine has said as well.  We're into the dozens by now.
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« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2017, 05:38:16 PM »

I agree with the others' posts as well. It does sound like she is trying to manipulate you through fear. My ex bluffed a lot and once in a while I called him on it. He usually didn't do it again when I did. I just had to pick my "battles" carefully on this. I recommend considering doing this as well.

Adding in NPD I think makes it a lot tougher, IMO. I'm glad you have a therapist to help you through this. Mine was a life saver. My ex really f'd with my mind and did quite a number on me but I'm doing MUCH better now. It was hell getting through it but I made it. I really feel for you and where you're at right now. Having been through something very similar, I wouldn't wish this on anybody. There's so much I want to say but I also don't want to write a book here.

I recommend being careful when telling your wife what she did or didn't do that is contributing to all of this. While I understand being authentic to who you are (and I highly recommend that - its awesome) and trying to honestly explain your thoughts and feelings, I think that she may feel she's being attacked by you and it may be bringing up deep feelings of shame in her due to her past. Her coping mechanism seems to be attacking/fighting. My ex did this a lot when I tried to explain to him about his behaviors that hurt me. I wasn't able to get through to him, though. I even tried the approach of something like "I feel sad when you tell me I'm a bad person" emphasizing on how I felt and trying to not use "you" statements like "You make me feel sad." I think the "you" makes them more defensive and more prone to attacking. In my case it still didn't work because then he would tell me why I'm a bad person and drive it even deeper. I even tried to mirror his behavior back to him. That didn't work either. He was confused why I was attacking him even when I used the exact same words he JUST said to me. It was mind-boggling. We tried the imago technique as well but that didn't work either. My point here is that I tried to de-escalate some of the situations as much as I could for my own sanity and the kids'. Have you found anything like this that may help when she attacks you? Or when she's calm? I'm hoping something like this would help you, though.

Excerpt
Clearly I am being verbally abused but I somehow can't escape the pain (and FOG) I'm trying but when the consequences of trying to create boundaries or just start the divorce process are huge and hurtful I just can't summon the strength


The pain of dealing with verbal and emotional abuse is awful. It really does a number. Creating and enforcing boundaries are crucial but tough, especially at first because the other person may freak out and escalate. For me I had to do it in baby steps. Maybe practice with a small boundary. Something that isn't a HUGE deal to her but makes you feel better. The more you do it and stay consistent, the easier it gets. At least that's how I feel about it.

I found this article very helpful in regards to boundaries: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/constructive-wallowing/201604/3-essential-ways-protect-your-personal-boundaries

I think the feelings of guilt and shame may be coming from her. So I think it would help to learn to recognize when she's projecting her feelings onto you. For me there was a lot of guilt and shame my ex projected onto me. Some of it was from me and my past. It took time and working with my therapist to recognize it. Recognizing it helped me realize what was and wasn't my fault. It gave me the strength I needed to take care of myself and my kids. Are you working with your therapist on something like this?

As for recording your wife when she's abusive, I think it's a great idea when you're able to do it. Are you sure it's not possible? Can you practice turning on voice recording on your phone from a different room so that she can't see you do it?  I was afraid he would destroy my phone if he saw me recording him. Part of me would hope that if he knew I was recording him that he would back down but a larger part of me thought he'd destroy my phone and I didn't want to chance it which is why I didn't let him see me if I could help it. I didn't end up using the recordings in court but it made me feel better and to remind me that I wasn't crazy. If you can't do it, you can't do it and that's okay too.

I also locked myself in the bathroom at home from time to time to type short notes on my phone to remind me of what had just happened.  Can you do something like this?

I also had to keep my journal at work. I caught him making copies of it once. I lost a lot of trust in him when he did that. He used it against me too. Unfortunately, I learned fairly quick that he used anything he could think of against me including my past therapy sessions, past mistakes, stuff from when I was a teenager, college, etc. He used everything it seemed as ammo to attack me and "beat me down" as to why I'm a horrible person and he's a "saint" for putting up with me. He repeatedly attacked my character, my morals, my beliefs, everything about me. It's emotional abuse and it's wrong. Learning how to recognize it and deal with it appropriately so it doesn't destroy you is really tough and takes practice and a good therapist. It sounds to me like she's doing something very similar to you. I suggest being careful what you tell her from now on. She may try to use it against you somehow. I hesitated to write that because I hope that she wouldn't do that to you. I never thought my ex would do it to me but he did and he did it in court documents. I was shocked and appalled he'd do something like that. I just don't want you to get surprised with something like that especially when you confide in them in good faith and trust.

I completely understand about not writing in your journal consistently and not having the energy to keep it up. That was me too. It's okay. You can only do what you can do, even if it's just short notes to remind yourself.

I understand your concern about not being able to be there for your kids to protect them. In my situation, I could see a huge positive difference in my kids after the divorce. I went from surviving to thriving and it made me a better mom. To do that, I had to get away from him. I just didn't have the energy to deal with him, my kids, my job, and everything else. I was barely functioning. It is a tough call to make.

I was also scared of not being there for them when they're with him. It took me awhile to work through that. Almost every day I would hear from him AND my oldest that I was only thinking of myself and how selfish I was and so on. It was horrible and it did hurt a lot. I had to work through that with my therapist. I now know that you have to also look out for yourself. You can't help your kids if you're barely surviving and functioning. You can't pour from an empty cup. Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do and it's not always easy.

I'm sorry this was so long. If anything, please remember you are not alone and please try to find ways to take care of yourself, even small ones can make a huge difference. I hope at least some of this helps you somehow.
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« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2017, 10:15:34 AM »

I'm hoping I can get some opinions on another matter that is swirling in all of this.  Because of the confusion about her retaining/not retaining an attorney and the fact that she told me I should pick one (so I did) has her really messed up.  As mentioned in the original post she was saying stuff in front of D10 about nonny and daddy ganging up on her.  My mother really shouldnt have shown up at the house and according to my wife she said some pretty mean things to her in front of D10.  Wife has been trying to block my parents phone numbers on our phones and the kids ipads so they cant text.  She is saying that she'll never allow them unsupervised visitation ever again because she cant trust their judgment.  Says that because I involved them I have forever ruined the relationship.  Says that they can only see my parents as often as they see her mom (who lives 6 hours away).  My parents are clearly upset and pissed but also understanding that this is a delicate situation and I know that they would forgive and move on, I do believe they still love my wife.  When I press her on this issue about blocking my parents and the fact that she said something in front of D10 her response is, well she should know the truth.  She should know what kind of people you are.  You need to leave and I'll make sure they know what kind of terrible person their father was... .  I know this is parental alienation and she's threatened and followed through with it when dysregulated.  This one really has me confused, I'm not sure how or what to validate here.  The rage comes so quick on this she jumps right to 90/10 custody garbage.  It usually backs down to ever other weekend custody and one weeknight "visit" per week as her bottom line non-negotiable.  It may be a fools errand to try and bring this to some reasonable ending.  I'm terrified of the nuclear option which is to record, build case, and basically bury her.  I can't imagine that would be any better for the kids than to slink away with my tail between my legs.  Live to fight another day... .  Thoughts?

I am the fire don't worry about writing a book, I've read and re-read your statements and just knowing that someone else has been able to survive this is helpful.  I know you are "past" this stage but I hope writing and trying to help others continues to help you heal.

I can't use anything on my phone as this is one battle I have chosen not to fight.  She believes I owe her transparency (one way street) and for some reason the phone is a huge trigger for her.  I believe she is really paranoid that people (me) are plotting against her.  I've fought privacy on the phone and its just a no-win situation.  I did find a pocket recorder that looks like a pen, I may order that and give that a try.

Hisaccount I'm not sure if I feel much in control, but I am trying.  I'm worried about staying "too strong"... .I may end up pushing her to file first and as contested rather than a joint petition.  Glad to hear you escaped another manipulative person!

BB, yes I think were well into the dozens at this point.  Hope you are staying strong.

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« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2017, 02:25:24 PM »

Excerpt
When I press her on this issue about blocking my parents and the fact that she said something in front of D10 her response is, well she should know the truth

Wow. My ex said things like this almost verbatim to what you wrote. I couldn't stop him from doing it (no one could) but I did manage to work on the after effects with my oldest. This may be a good place for some advice from your T on how to talk to your kids about it. For me, I asked my oldest what she thought about what her dad says. She seems to understand that just because her dad says one thing it doesn't necessarily mean it's true. That there are more than one side to every story. She's learned to take it with a grain of salt and find out my point of view. It's sad but it's the reality of it.

Having said that, I do everything I can to avoid making it into an adult conversation even when her dad confides in her like an adult. I can now tell her that I believe what he told her is inappropriate. That it's between her dad and me. It has nothing to do with her. She seems to understand and accepts it. When she was 10, I had to explain to her what "immoral" and "unethical" meant thanks to her dad and the things he told her about me. He even told her to not believe anything I said. Thankfully she didn't believe him. In fact, his attempts at alienation backfired on him and she now doesn't believe anything he tells her about me. She sees how I behave and act with her own eyes. Actions really do speak louder than words and kids see it.

At this point, feelings seem raw and there is a lot of hurt going around in your situation. I would try to not worry about custody at this point. That is something to work through with your lawyer and hers when the time comes. Don't make any promises and try not to worry too much about it yet. I know that's easier said than done. I'm not sure what the laws are like where you are but where I'm at the courts felt it best that the children have equal time with BOTH of their parents as much as possible unless you could absolutely without a doubt prove abuse and/or neglect. The abuse and neglect had to be fairly extreme and backed up with police reports and/or investigations. I believe she is threatening you and trying to manipulate you based on her feelings at those particular moments. Please try to not fall for it. I don't think she has as much power as she and you think in this. You actually have more power and a say in this than you think you do.

It took me a long time to realize that my ex talks and reacts very emotionally in the moment. Most of what he writes and says is all emotionally based. There seems to be no real logic and reason that I'd expect from most adults. It's odd but it fits. So please try to not take her threats to heart. She has only so much say in the custody arrangement and such. If you and she cannot agree, that's where a judge will have to decide. Again that comes later. Nothing like that needs to be decided at this moment.

Personally I would build your nuclear case regardless. It does not mean you need to use it. I hate to say it, but it can actually become a bartering tool of some sort. I had to do that with my ex and I hated it despite the hell he put me through but it worked. He rejected every single proposal my lawyer came up with, probably out of spite or something. They were extremely generous to him because I just wanted it to be over. Since he rejected them, we went to court (part 1 of our final hearing) taking 50/50 custody off the table and I was going for full custody. I had a police report (he broke my door in a rage) and evidence of his parental alienation attempts (awful texts to our oldest about me). Yes it was meant to show him just how generous our offers had been. The hearing ran over so we had to reconvene in a few months. During that time he got a new lawyer who seemed to talk some sense into him. Minutes before part 2 of our final hearing, he agreed to try to come to an agreement with our lawyers present. We got through it and I think it was very fair to both of us. I did end up taking on a lot of debt as a result and having to pay him spousal support (that really sucked). I chalked it up to the cost of my freedom. We did end up with 50/50 custody with stipulations built in because he had shown he wasn't reliable. We sold the house and split the profit. He had 6 months to get his own place. If he did not do his parenting time in that time frame, he would have to pay me a lot of money in child support. I think that motivated him.

I hope this helps you.

Side note... .since you mentioned it... .writing about my experiences does seem to help me as well. It feels good to be able to help someone else who is going through what I went through. It also helps me to look back at what I went through and see just how far I've come. That I'm stronger than I thought I was. There were many times when I wanted to give up. When I thought I wasn't strong enough. There were times I wanted to die and almost did take my life. But I held on and I'm so very grateful I did. My kids need me and I didn't realize just how much they needed me until I went through this hell and came out the other side much stronger. I now truly belive I can help my kids better now than ever before. I can use my experiences in general to give them the tools for dealing with life and people that I never had as a kid. That and I am now with my soulmate. I've never been happier. No matter how dark the times, I now believe there is always hope. We just have to find it.
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« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2017, 09:36:34 AM »

Thank you, I think the Fear is often paralyzing for me.  I know that the courts will help, but I think I'm afraid of having to go through that when it really doesn't need to happen that way.  I think I fear the "urgency" that she places on everything.  Its always an ultimatum.  Today's version was if I move out she'll consider filing a joint petition.  If not, she'll file a contested complaint and seek temporary support so she can move out.  I've told her all along that I would  move out if she actually filed a joint petition, not me move out and have her consider it.  I really believe she wants me to move out, then file a complaint and freeze our assets with her and the kids in the house which would prevent us from selling it... .

I know I have more power in this than I do, but as everyone knows especially with some NPD in the mix I have to at least give her the illusion of control.  Its a delicate balance.

I am the Fire, please keep writing and helping others.  I know I plan too once I get on the other side.  I'm glad you are there.
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« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2017, 11:22:45 AM »

I completely understand your fear of her urgency as well. My ex did that too. Personally, I wouldn't trust her with this, though. I wouldn't strike any deals with her without attorneys being involved and having everything in writing. Based on my experience, I think she's bluffing and trying to manipulate you. Please be careful.

With mine, I told him I'd consider his "requests" (they were more like demands) which seemed to help. I also used a lot of "I hear what you're saying" or "that seems reasonable" and so on without anything in writing. I wasn't going to commit to anything without my attorney but also tried to "hear him out" to see if that appeased him at least somewhat. There were times when I did what I felt I had to do for my own sanity. It is a tough balance.

When I filed for divorce, it automatically put all assets on hold. Neither of us could sell anything major like the house prior to the end of the divorce. It's meant to protect everyone while it's all sorted out. Maybe ask your attorney what your options are and what he/she thinks is best and what is more likely to happen. In my case, I knew he would contest and fight the divorce no matter what. He even told me that directly when I first told him I wasn't sure I wanted to be married to him anymore (to test the waters). He said he didn't care if it took twenty years! He would never agree to a divorce.  So I filed separately from him. In my state, it only takes one person to file. They can't trap you into a marriage you don't want to be in.

Also, in my state if one person moves out PRIOR to filing for divorce and even prior to the temporary orders hearing, it may be considered abandonment and it really screws you over especially with child custody. That's why I urge you to be careful about what she's trying to do and learn what your rights are.
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2017, 12:53:50 PM »

Hi Oz, I'm sorry I haven't been able to post much on your thread.  And I'll apologize if this message is long, repetitive, and poorly structured -- I am having trouble getting private computer time; this is kind of like a message from one prison camp to another, I suppose

Oz, there are two complementary truths here that you need to realize.  My wife is bluffing nearly all the time, with terrible threats.  DO NOT BE AFRAID.  And while most of it is bluffs, YOU MUST PREPARE FOR THE WORST.  I know my threads are really long, but take a look at the stuff Skip has been saying to me about projecting confidence.

She has you off balance.  Have you been able to find a place where you recognize that you can't count on any of these crazy threats to be true?  Where you give them so little credence that you can avoid feeling threatened by them?  Can you act in a way that projects calm confidence, without challenging her directly?  She knows when you are stressed.  She needs you to be less powerful than her so she does not feel threatened, so you'll be trying to stay with her to be with the kids, etc.  These are all desperate measures to meet her needs.  She continues the behavior because she is getting a payoff.  If you can build your strength and skills so her weapons are no longer effective, you will put her off balance and be better able to drive change.

Have you talked to your lawyer to get an opinion on what percentage of custody you could get of D10?  Could you use your parent's help to make a 50% custody arrangement work with your job situation?  Even if you have to later complement their help with professional care, having them step up and say they'd be helping you care for the kids so they'd be surrounded by family would be super powerful.  A buddy of mine has a 50% arrangement, and he pours on the steam at work during the non-kid weeks, and eases off a bit when he has the kids.  With good documentation of her behavior and your involvement in the kids' lives, don't feel you should be shortchanged because you're a guy.  You are too involved of a father for that, and have too much to offer your kids.  If you end up splitting, go for the brass ring.  You have been weakened by battle and your vision of the future is still shaped by what she wants you to believe.  It will not surprise you to hear that I have been held by the same threats.  But they are beginning to lose their power on me as I build strength and get outside help/frames of reference to develop a more valid assessment.

I feel so selfish wanting to be happy knowing the cost it would incur to my children.  I just don't know how to get past that.
Oz, I feel this same struggle.  I have put up with buckets of s**t for years and years to avoid upsetting their lives.  I'm proud of my ability to do that, and the payoff has been being able to be with them 100% of the time.  But I believe that I underestimated the cost of staying to both me and them, and how good of a custody arrangement I could get if I left.  I'm definitely not trying to tilt you in that direction, but you want accurate info, and I suspect since our situations are so similar there is a good chance you're biased in the same way.

Are you documenting what's going on?  And I don't mean just if she hits you.  Any time she says something crazy.  Any time she draws the kids into conflict or manipulates/obstructs your activities with them or communication with them.  Religiously.  Whenever my wife does something like this, within minutes if possible without being socially awkward, I find a private moment and type it into my phone notes before I forget.  It now feels like I could be really convincing on the parental alienation thing, thanks to this documentation.  It's about specifics, and patterns over time.  If it comes to that, her own words and actions will do her in.  Another benefit is that writing it down, for me at least, eased some of the pain of hearing that garbage and having nobody else understand or hear what I was experiencing.  Doing this will help you build confidence, make you feel less shell shocked, allow you to project a more confident persona, and paradoxically make it easier for you to function and stay in the relationship if that is the path you take.

Oz, documentation was my key to both realizing the extend of the abuse and developing the confidence that I would be believed by others in a custody situation or if she filed false charges against me.  Yes, video is helpful, I have video of my wife acting totally nuts, but if all you have is journals, that is HUGE.  Nobody could make up all the stuff our wives do.  You will come across as credible.

And another thing  Stop engaging in silly conversations with your wife where she takes you down the rabbit hole.  Dude, we could talk for hours, our situations are so similar.  Read how pearlsw just kicked my butt on my thread for sitting with my wife for hours and listening to all of her points.  It's not a problem to be calm and talk to your wife, but if you are entertaining and partially validating total BS, and being sucked into that reality, you have a problem.

I think the Fear is often paralyzing for me.  I know that the courts will help, but I think I'm afraid of having to go through that when it really doesn't need to happen that way.  I think I fear the "urgency" that she places on everything.  Its always an ultimatum.  Today's version was if I move out she'll consider filing a joint petition.  If not, she'll file a contested complaint and seek temporary support so she can move out.  I've told her all along that I would  move out if she actually filed a joint petition, not me move out and have her consider it.  I really believe she wants me to move out, then file a complaint and freeze our assets with her and the kids in the house which would prevent us from selling it... .
For the love of Pete, this is what I am talking about.  And I'm giving you such a hard time because you know I live in a glass house, so it's not just you that does this.  I have as well.  But I'm finally realizing what a mind f**k this all is.  Build the strength to call her bluff.  Say that you are committed to trying to work things out, and if she wants to get a lawyer to call your lawyer, she can, but you want to spend your energy on healing the family.  Or whatever, you don't have to say that particular thing if it's not right for you, but don't talk about all of this stuff for hours when you are weakened and she may be bluffing.  It is just a means to control you.

I know I have more power in this than I do, but as everyone knows especially with some NPD in the mix I have to at least give her the illusion of control.  Its a delicate balance.
This is a dangerous game.  I have done the same thing.  Perhaps fine to do this for a little while longer while you build your strength, but you must not allow this to persist for very long at all, and if it is persisting, you certainly are in no position to either negotiate a truce or exit successfully.

You need to work hard to develop external frames of reference.  Please go visit www.thehotline.org right now.  Start with this link:
www.thehotline.org/is-this-abuse/abuse-defined/
Look at the definition of types of abuse.  I bet you are going to see maybe 10% that doesn't apply to you, and 90% that does.  Then look at this link:
www.thehotline.org/healthy-relationships/relationship-spectrum/
Is your relationship unhealthy or abusive?  I found this graphic very helpful because I had that exact question.

You have been in this relationship for a long, long time.  You are an empathetic, caring, determined guy.  You are playing fair and she is not.  You are in an abusive relationship.  Your "weakness" is your love for your kids and your commitment to behaving humanely and honorably.  There is no shame in being victimized because of that.  You should be proud of your strength and integrity.  If you go to those links and start to recognize the techniques of abusive control, you will see them happening in your relationship.  Recently I've been in the middle of a barrage but felt a lightness in my soul because I recognized the abusive techniques for what they were.  Yes, I was still in a pickle, and I had to work to get an appropriate look of seriousness and engagement on my face, but it felt so good to have developed my own reality reference outside of the warped abusive one I'd been living in for years.

Good luck this weekend.  Read those links.  Build your strength.

Wentworth

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« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2017, 01:49:27 PM »

Wentworth, you and I are certainly traveling very similar paths and I appreciate your comments.


And this one is a bit of wake the f up buddy and it was really needed (thank you). I read Skips comments frequently and will have to look for pearlsw's comments. I will write more when I have a chance, I tried to send you a PM but your box was full Smiling (click to insert in post)


I will say right now I feel more stuck than ever. My heart does want to do what I think is right and honorable and be a good dad and provider for the family, my head on the other hand is waking up and saying exactly what you are thinking...   At what cost to myself am I willing to endure here... .?
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I_Am_The_Fire
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« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2017, 04:04:46 PM »

Hey Oz... .your situation isn't an easy one to be in. So I think it's completely understandable for you to feel stuck. I suggest taking some time to take care of yourself and maybe do some work with your therapist. Mine helped me to come to a decision on what I wanted to do with my situation. She didn't try to decide for me or tell me what to do either. She helped me a lot by letting me just talk about my feelings and such. In time I came to my own decision.

Having kids didn't make it easy either. I went back and forth a bit because of the kids. On one hand, I was afraid of what it'd be like for them without me around all the time. On the other hand, I didn't want them to think this type of relationship was healthy, good, etc. I wanted them to see what a healthy r/s was and this wasn't it. For me, I finally got to the point where I saw the writing on the wall. He wasn't going to change or even try to look at his part in the failure of the marriage. I felt trapped and I hated it. I felt a lot of resentment. So I bailed. That was me, though. I felt it was far too late to salvage anything. I didn't have any good feelings left for him. I still don't. I don't think we ever had a good foundation, though. There was a lot of mistrust from both of us from the beginning. It didn't make for a good healthy r/s.

I think that no matter what you decide to do, you'll find support here.

BTW, Wentworth... .I second what Oz wrote... .I tried to reply to your PM... your message box is full.  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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"My mission in life is not merely to survive, but to thrive; and to do so with some passion, some compassion, some humor, and some style" ~ Maya Angelou
PeteWitsend
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« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2017, 09:21:15 PM »

Hi OZ,

I haven't posted here as much lately, but from your story you and I are in pretty similar situations.

I'm a bit younger, as are my kids. 

I agree with everything wentworth said above, esp. the part on not allowing them to take you down the rabbit hole.

it can be exhausting though, and takes a toll on your health, both mentally and physically.  I try to maintain boundaries, but even when I do, the resentment, anguish, and despair is there the next day.  it affects my performance at work.

Like LuckyJim said, you need to find ways to cope as you move toward a permanent solution.

the only thing really keeping me in this is that my kids are so young... .4 & 2.  Unable to really fend for themselves or even call me up if something happened to them.  I feel like I need to tough it out a little longer.  I'm reassured though by a number of people who tell me as bad as divorce is, two unhappy, fighting parents are worse.  and in the end, kids figure stuff out.

a friend of mine who is a psychiatrist told me divorce is often easier on younger kids since they don't quite grasp what's going on, and just go with the flow.  but I weigh this against concerns about my wife being able to care for them though, especially if she falls apart emotionally during/after the divorce.

It's just never a clean cut decision, and in the end, the burden of making the decision rests with you alone.  But life goes on. 
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ozmatoz
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« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2017, 01:22:09 PM »

PeteWitsend Being stuck is the absolute worst feeling.  My performance at work suffered so much that... lets just say I know I'm in trouble... .  I can't even get away from the phone for a few minutes or even be myself anymore.  But then here we go round and round with the arguments and her telling me how "done" she is, followed up by a plea for me to "just be better".  Along with a list of non-negotiables which on the surface may seem ok, but there is a lot more than the eye can see.  Oh, and they all need to be met five minutes ago...  

I too will feel good and strong and think I can push through this... .only to be just beaten down in a corner again.  Its a double edge sword, every time I think I can stay strong and I don't, just ends up making me feel worse, which then ends up making me lose focus on everything else around me.

IAmTheFire I have worked with my T, she keeps telling me and trying to push into my head that all of her threats are just that, and while it will suck she really recommends me getting away from my wife.  My T tried to help me find all sorts of ways to connect and possible save things, but she has seen a real downturn in my health and is now advocating to me that I really need to think about saving myself now.  So hard to do when my wife continually pounds into my head that I should have been the patriarch of the family, but I have failed her and our girls and that I owe them to "be better"... .except I don't know if there ever is a better?

Wentworth I'm trying to document best I can, she is all over me so it is incredibly difficult to keep things or get away for enough time.  I hope you are doing well.  By all means the links you shared clearly indicate that I am in an abusive relationship (my T agrees), yet I still feel like I should be tough enough and "man enough" to deal with this... .or so I'm told.  Is it FOGgy in here?

be well everyone, she wants me to go away for the weekend. I'm sure if I do she'll throw it in my face that she had to take care of everything, but if I stay I'll hear about it all weekend that she wanted me to go...    I'll let you all know how it goes.

-Oz
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I_Am_The_Fire
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« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2017, 01:39:33 PM »

Please don't be hard on yourself. You can only do what you can do some days. I get it. It's almost like a cha-cha sometimes. One step forward, a few steps back. The main thing is to keep going in the direction you want to go in. It gets easier with time and practice.

It sounds to me that her "digs" get to you which is emotionally draining. When I went through that, my T suggested something that really helped me a lot whenever my ex said those types of things to me. This may sound a little silly. As soon as he would start on something or was even in the room, I imagined a big invisible shield around me, like a force field. None of what he said could get through to me to hurt me. It took a lot of practice but I kept at it and it worked for me.

Sometimes I would even imagine a big cartoon bubble coming out of his mouth. None of the horrible things he said got to me anymore. This also took practice. Before I knew it, there was little he could say that would hurt me anymore. This helped me to gain emotional strength which then helped me take better care of myself. I had to make sure I wasn't dissociating but just detaching emotionally from the situation when I needed to for my own sanity.

Has your T mentioned something like this? Do you think something like this could help you?
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