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Author Topic: You can't rescue everybody. Maybe you can't rescue anybody  (Read 2480 times)
Turkish
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« on: December 04, 2017, 10:48:37 PM »

D5 told me the other night that mommy's husband (the guy she left me for) knocked on their door the recently.  They moved into a new place last month.  She had previously moved due to mutual DV (at the top level). Last Christmas eve,  the cops threatened to arrest one or both of them.  She pulled the "you'd send a single mother of two young children into the cold?" card  

I talked to both of them separately about DV. They both thanked me and proceeded to ignore what I said for the most part.  I had on my Turkish hat  

I don't know what she was thinking,  but she asked her H to help her move into the new place. Queen? Waif?

D5 said,  "mommy told him to go away because he wasn't in their lives anymore." I think that's brutal and not a bit cruel.  A buddy said,  "she wants to keep the drama going." This is the guy she wrote, in am email I caught on our computer, "every day that goes by is one day closer that we can be together forever." Four years ago while she was still living with us.  

I recommend against this unless you can handle it,  but I checked his FB page.  He changed his name from a childish nickname and posted a profile pic of them kissing... .kind like from over two years ago.  :)esperation.

While I still think he might be dangerous,  especially when she files,  I feel badly for him.  He got it both better than me with both the fantasy idealization and the devaluation (he was arrested for resisting arrest 1.5 years ago). D5 also told me,  "he isn't living with us because he took mommy's stuff." That,  and "ate the kids' food," as she told me once and by incredulity I was silent.  (Aren't you married?)

If I were me in that situation, I wouldn't.  If I were him,  I'd nail her for alimony.  

I think about reaching out to him, but that would be foolish.  Besides,  an at risk youth I used to mentor chose to continue a r/s with a probable pwBPD despite my advice... .which he came to me for.  

You can't rescue everybody.  Maybe you can't rescue anybody other than widows and orphans.
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« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2017, 11:57:22 PM »

Turkish, I know you're a good and kind person, so don't mind me saying this, but reading this was so satisfactory.  You're one one the few lucky ones that got to witness the discard of the replacement. I know I'm petty, but I envy you.
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« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2017, 12:13:13 AM »

I waited for this,  but it's a Phyrric Victory if anything.  My kids still like him. I know how
I would handle it in her shoes with regards to the kids. 

As for me? I hear you,  but I can't help but think I was too attached to their failure. 
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« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2017, 12:25:52 AM »

Don't be so hard on yourself. We're all humans after all, not robots nor saints.
If anything, this is the Closure with the capital C!
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« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2017, 12:53:40 AM »

The failure is somewhat inevitable. So don't feel bad, iv'e done just about everthing i could to keep my ex together sane and in her new relationships , bar the first one with a bi-polar ex addict ex bike debt collector, and frankly her last foray is hilarious in a pathos sort of way, just about everyone cracks up when they hear the story, the last couple of dudes must know because she has linked up with them straigh out of hospital, so my consience is clear.

I am still badly stuffed though over six years now sigh.
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2017, 05:10:22 PM »

Wow, hits home for me in an odd way. Not to make this about me, but the way my ex dropped the relationship was just like that—no emotion, no strain, it was over and she was a different person all of a sudden.

In a big way, I can empathize with your analysis of being too attached to the failure of their relationship. I haven't seen my ex in about a year and a half, and I'm still kind of holding my breath on hearing about her newest relationship implode through the grape vine. It's tough, and there are a lot of emotions that I still need to deal with, just with the way everything turned out in the end between her and I.

What I say is... .feel those feelings. I trust that you already have some sense of what they mean. I know I do in my own life. At this point it's more about cleaning up the remaining puzzle pieces. And maybe, just maybe, it's about accepting our own failures a bit more, instead of half-pretending that we have learned all we can learn about life.

I feel for your kids. That has to be hard on them. Luckily, they have a dad like you to watch their backs and make sure they feel safe in some aspect of their lives. As always, rooting for you and your family.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2018, 04:11:22 PM »

Turkish, I know you're a good and kind person, so don't mind me saying this, but reading this was so satisfactory.  You're one one the few lucky ones that got to witness the discard of the replacement. I know I'm petty, but I envy you.
As someone who was replaced, this made me laugh out loud because I totally feel the same way.
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Turkish
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« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2018, 09:41:42 PM »

As someone who was replaced, this made me laugh out loud because I totally feel the same way.

I get it.  I wouldn't have known how bad it got if not for sharing kids and she was afraid I would report her for the DV. Even so,  the night she called I went into Turkish mode and talked to her as I would anyone here in that situation.  

So where would I be if we had just moved on and I was strict NC as I was envisioning when she first broke up with me,  no kids? She wanted to remain friends. We even went to the local dinner to have a late dinner and she let me sleep next to her and said I could stay until I found a place. In the back of my mind,  I was running options to leave the next day and going to a strip motel, one of those local with hourly rates (on a street known for prostitution   It wouldn't have been optimal,  but I had the means.

Personally, I was relieved when she ended it the first time in 2008,  though she called me less of a man for not ending it myself.  I could have moved out within an hour and not looked back... .but I may have ended up in a similar situation later.  I'm not sure what I would have learned at that point.  I had concluded BPD, but probably wouldn't have landed here.  I wasn't hurt enough yet.  

valet, thanks for rooting for our pack  

I'll share something my T said: "Personalities typically don't change." Take that as you will.  

Personalities are one thing,  conscious behaviors are another.
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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2018, 12:52:47 PM »

Turkish, what’s keeping you from letting go of that situation and maintaining your own life? You are a stand up guy for staying in the mix like you have. The thing is, don’t you want your own piece of the pie outside of BPD? You don’t have to include yourself in her life anymore, unless you truly want to. You know that. She’s still in your bubble it seems. If this does truly make you happy, then stick with it. I’m new here. I’ve read some of your stuff and there is no way to really gauge emotion through text. I hope you’re putting yourself first out there.
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« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2018, 09:42:33 PM »

She asked if I was taking the kids to family movie night at the school tomorrow.  It's my night.  She missed the last three years  (busy, I guess). She's more engaged since she's been separated. This is good.  I won't comment about the inability to walk and chew gum at the same time  

D8 turned 8 yesterday. Had a small celebration last night at the ex-laws. It was fine.  No way I wouldn't show up since my son asked me to twice.  It was fine.

As for me? Any time I'm not with the kids,  I'm working.  I don't see much time for myself apart from that (and taking care of a house... .I do find solace on doing yard work like last weekend).

If I were honest,  I don't really trust anybody given where I am in life (logistically and financially). I'll be ok of I'm ok where I am at.  If I'm not,  then I'm not.  
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2018, 01:14:44 AM »

I think there are great odds that either she is already dating someone new or she is about to start dating. She is at choosing stage. You, her recent ex or someone new. Thats just theory and my prediction. Do you think you have spent more time with kids lately?
How would you feel if suddenly theres another man in her and in your kids life?
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Turkish
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2018, 10:48:16 AM »

 Even if she has, she's more focused on the kids now.  I don't think she'll make the same mistake again.  I think her H still thinks they will get back together. 

If or when a new guy comes in, that's none of my business.
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« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2018, 01:31:29 AM »

What do you want, Turkish?
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« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2018, 12:15:24 AM »

What do you want, Turkish?

I recently bought some Fat Albert DVDs. I felt nostalgic, leaving aside Bill Cosby. My kids love the show.  Russell Cosby in the show likes to throw out "NC" (no class).

"Man, you're school at midnight."

"What's that?"

"No. Class." Cue laugh track.

For me it is ND: No. Drama.

We were at the park today.  My ex texted me that it was a beautiful afternoon and asked how we were.  I told her what park we were at.  She was at another park only a mile away and said she wanted to pick the kids up for dinner but didn't want to see D5 cry. Strange. It is my night... .I didn't respond.  I knew she was missing the kids,  fishing for me to say,  "sure, let's meet for dinner!" Darn me but it didn't cross my mind... .I knew she was out walking to soothe herself. Not up to me or the kids to rescue her. 

I just want ND. I also don't want to end up like my mom,  a paranoid hermit.



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« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2018, 11:24:53 AM »

Excerpt
Not up to me or the kids to rescue her. 

Hey Turkish, Right, it's not your task.  She's responsible for her own emotional life.  I think you handled it well.  It's tempting to play the White Knight, but I've learned that often its an unhealthy dynamic for rescuer and rescuee.

LJ
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« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2018, 05:14:19 PM »

From what I gather, it's going to be impossible to keep all of the drama away in your co-parenting situation, and as much as I can't empathize with that (I went NC a while ago, don't have kids, etc.), I find your idea of resistance to your mom as secondary to the central issue.

It sounds like your ex is on her best behavior for now, and that's a good sign. You're right to have the 'no rescuing' policy in my book, but to employ that logic so judiciously might be holding you back from avoiding the drama that you want to get away from, on a deeper internal level.

We were at the park today.  My ex texted me that it was a beautiful afternoon and asked how we were.  I told her what park we were at.  She was at another park only a mile away and said she wanted to pick the kids up for dinner but didn't want to see D5 cry. Strange. It is my night... .I didn't respond.  I knew she was missing the kids,  fishing for me to say,  "sure, let's meet for dinner!" Darn me but it didn't cross my mind... .I knew she was out walking to soothe herself. Not up to me or the kids to rescue her.

This is the part that has me thinking. There's really no way to know what her intentions were in asking (she did ask, don't forget), unless you were to ask her directly. She could have been missing the kids, but there's no guarantee of it.

So why put yourself through this rationalization process to justify not responding? You don't need to. It might be better to be direct and hold your position, rather than leaving her to guess, which feeds the cycle. A polite 'no, thank you' would do the trick. And if she's not aware of the legal boundaries about custody, maybe they should be re-insisted, for the sake of clarity.



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Turkish
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« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2018, 09:47:15 PM »

We are on a 3-2-2-5 schedule.  3s are Friday evening through Monday morning.  Last night she asked me to watch them since she had to be a little or of town for morning training,  so I had the kids this past weekend,  then last night (hers). She gets them tonight,  then me two days.  Since she is alone (her worst fear), only one weeknight triggers her.  She did ask to take the kids to dinner last night.  I said ok.  It was her night.  She returned them about 7pm.

I had to give up the kids two weeknights a month ago for work reasons similarly.  I saw the kids Sunday,  then not until Friday evening.  I don't suffer from Anxiety and Depression as she does tough.  My thoughts and emotions were different from hers.

I know this triggers her.  She feared being deported in 2011 when her lawyer messed up and her green card might have expired before she took the citizenship test.  She said that if that happened,  she would take then S1 to Mexico "because a son belongs with his mother."  That was only only one of two times she scared the crap out of me. 

Quote from: valet
So why put yourself through this rationalization process to justify not responding? You don't need to. It might be better to be direct and hold your position, rather than leaving her to guess, which feeds the cycle. A polite 'no, thank you' would do the trick. And if she's not aware of the legal boundaries about custody, maybe they should be re-insisted, for the sake of clarity.

Because my mind works that way?  Smiling (click to insert in post) I know... .no excuse.

The custody stipulation removes me from the triangulation equation; the court is the Prosecutor and also Rescuer. 

If I could give any advice,  never accept a handshake custody agreement.  I can't imagine how I would be dealing with this if I hadn't filed like she wanted not to do. 

Quote from: valet
You're right to have the 'no rescuing' policy in my book, but to employ that logic so judiciously might be holding you back from avoiding the drama that you want to get away from, on a deeper internal level.

What do you mean exactly?
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« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2018, 09:10:04 PM »

What do you mean exactly?

Good question. My point is that eventually you don't even get the point of saying 'oh, this is her asking to be rescued from her emotions', and just go with your gut answer, which was, in this case, that you just didn't want to meet up on your day with the kids.

More complicated than it sounds, I know. But it's better to stop at your answer than find ways to justify it by psychoanalyzing her on some level. My guess it that it keeps you more involved than you want to be in looking for a 'no drama' type of deal.

I kind of went through this too when I was still friendly with my ex. I'd find reasons to bottle up how I felt in the name of seeing things clearly. But seeing things clearly and validating our own emotions can get confusing when we have an overabundance of knowledge about a particular thing, especially a personality disorder that we believe someone that was once close to us has.
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« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2018, 12:40:31 AM »

valet,

You're invalidating my two post-docs in Armchair Psychology  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I'm guilty of overthinking things, when boundaries and BIFF could be better suited by moving the ball out of my court... .which I may desired to be served to me in the first place,  unnecessarily. 

I texted her about D5's lunch habits tonight. This wasn't a crisis. I guess I should admit to myself that I still desire some interaction... .
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« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2018, 03:43:30 PM »

Heh, that sounds about right to me. I have no qualms with being friendly or just wanting to hang beyond the principle reason that you have kids together. That seems like a pretty normal 'marriage didn't work out, but we're cool' type of deal.

Are you questioning her motives? Or maybe that she's looking to rekindle?
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« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2018, 12:38:38 AM »

She asked to come back last May (while still married! And she's still married). I shut that down,  gracefully. I think that she doesn't know how to detach from him.  He's like a lost puppy, still hoping for the dream marriage,  despite cops, DV and her verbal and emotional abuse. I don't ask... .she'd tell me if I asked,  but I don't want to know.
 
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« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2018, 05:48:30 PM »

I see. I wasn't aware of that.

Here's a curveball: are you opposed to the idea of meeting someone new? Dating? All that jazz?
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« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2018, 09:19:20 PM »

Well, no.  I kind of crushed on one of S8's ABA in-home therapy techs a little, a slightly nerdy, pretty, very smart woman with a calm demeanor until I found out she was 24 (I just turned 46). Even my ex made a comment about her checking me out.  The age is a little much. 

I might be making excuses,  but I don't feel I have the time.  In the morning,  I'm going to observe the kids try out a martial arts class (ex's idea,  I think it's a waste of money to have D5 in MA), then I'm going to work to finish a job, even though I'm lucky if I got a 1% raise this year.  My boss has the paper,  didn't show it to me yet. 

Sunday, lunch with her and the kids after church, then yard work. There is D5's room, formerly an office,  which needs clearing to get her to stop sleeping with either me,  S8 or both. It sure would be nice to have a "help meet," but then I'd have to take on the reciprocal. I also live up under the radar financially,  so I'm thinking "pre-nup" even to date. 

Yes, I realize I'm making excuses... .I met my ex volunteering,  which is full of codependents and BPD-like people,  IMO. Bay Area dating may also be tougher than normal.  A lot of bling with nothing under the surface to show for it.  Maybe I should trade my 9 year old Mazda in for a BMW? 

I'm still making excuses.

After the parents of children with BPD, I think that the step parents are the next heroes of the board.  I'd be lucky to find such. 

"If ye do not seek,  ye shall not find." (That's not exactly on The Bible,  no one look that up)

I know if I don't seek,  that I won't find.  It's my trepidation of trying to bring someone into my life that I'm worried about. 
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« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2018, 10:52:48 AM »

Excerpt
It's my trepidation of trying to bring someone into my life that I'm worried about.

Hey Turkish, What are you worried about?  Fill us in, when you can.  LJ
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« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2018, 05:23:37 PM »

You sound a bit black/white on the dating thing, Turk.  

I didn't mean to put you on the spot back there in my other post. I think the main thing that I was getting at was that it sounds like you need some more support. You take on a lot. You have the kids, work, navigating a potentially unstable co-parenting thing. It takes a toll whether we admit it or not.

How's your social life? You got friends or family that you feel comfortable spilling things out to, or just hanging out with and living life for a bit? Do you feel like you can just be selfish every once in a while and have some fun?
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« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2018, 09:34:59 PM »

I worked last Saturday.  I'm seriously thinking of jumping ship. Had an offer on December but it would require a lot of travel. Can't do it with the kids this young... .not considering their mom. 

It's sustaining to take care of the home.  Sport bike sits in the garage,  unstarted for a year (gas tank off, Li Ion battery on tender). Firearms sit locked up and unused... .I did defensive training classes the last year my ex was with me and I got quite good.  BFF'S are at least 100 miles away.  I do have friends at work but we are all old with families.  I only kind of connect with people at church.  I kind of do feel isolated. 

Mommy's taking the kids on what looks to be at least a $3k vacation in two months. They expect Legoland every year now.  This time it will be Disney world.

I maxed out my flex spending this year to pay for probable orthodontia for S8 the dentist warned me about.  I'm also increasing my contributions to their 529 college savings plans.

I guess I could go out and buy a new motorcycle, though there's nothing wrong with my old one.  Seems kind of mid-life-crisis-ish. A temporary fix.  To top it off,  I was told today that my BPD mother was put into a skilled care facility, permanently. I have a few days of art the end of the month.  I should go see her after over a year of NC though the social worker, who called me today on the way home from work, told me that her dementia was pretty bad.  I don't think I need to tell them about her multiple mental illnesses.  If they do their jobs and "dementia" helps them sleep better at night,  then who am I to say otherwise.   

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« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2018, 06:48:04 PM »

The boundary violations add up when we don't defend our feelings from the chaos of our own lives. Getting split between many different things and not being able to give one of them most of our attention is stressful. And I'm sure you're already aware of the cumulative effects that sustained levels of this can have (BPDex and all).

I used to get caught up in the idea that I was kind of like a machine. I could work forever, handle a million projects, have a great social life, and fully engage with things on my own time. I did it in grad school and it continued into my work life up until very recently. Fact of the matter is I started to get depressed, irritable, unmotivated, etc. And when I finally sat back for a second and looked at the big picture, I realized that there was no way a human being could do what I was trying to do sustainably, and without losing their mind.

So with work, it seems like you've already had that cut and run instinct. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you to quit your job, but maybe there are other solutions, like shaving some hours away so you can have time to go blast away at the gun range, or take your bike for a spin, or just sit around guilt free in your backyard/living room. You'd prolly even meet some new people doing this kind of stuff semi-regularly (minus the backyard, unless you invite some acquaintances over!).

You're gonna have to do a bit of self-analysis here by taking an honest look at how your time is spent, but I think it would be a great idea to get a barometer of things. After that, what would you think about making a plan to keep that responsibility/fun balance a bit more even?
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« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2018, 08:13:42 PM »

Hey Turkish. Just wanted to let you know. I f*****g hate pikeys.
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« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2018, 11:17:00 PM »

JNChell 

valet, but I am a machine! *sigh*


She asked to take the kids to martial arts on her day tomorrow,  but wanted me to take her nephew also.  I said no.  She gave me some static. I haven't even talked to her sister yet she was assuming I'd do it.  No way I want to be responsible for a 4 year old especially without his mom's permission! A friend at work, kind of like an older sister, told me I need to learn to say no more quickly (she agreed that it was weird). I spent almost ten minutes on the phone justifying why I wasn't going to pick up my ex SIL's kid.  9 minutes too long. 

In any case, I attend school functions on Saturday. My ex bowed out (again). Overall,  I feel that if I don't do certain things,  they won't get done. I need to learn that it's ok to let certain things drop. The world isn't going to end.  Maybe this is the curse of the latchkey kid?
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« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2018, 09:37:11 AM »

Excerpt
A friend at work, kind of like an older sister, told me I need to learn to say no more quickly (she agreed that it was weird).

Hey Turkish, There's a book out there entitled Why Do I Feel Guilty When I Say No, or some similar title.  Might be worth taking a look at it.  I had the same problem years ago.  Now I have no qualms about saying No.  It's about putting your needs first, rather than those of others.  It takes practice, though, so cut yourself some slack.

LuckyJim
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