I have had a lot of severe ups and downs

[Thor2018]

Hi I have had a lot of severe ups and downs. Tonight is somewhere in the middle. I came here to learn from all of you

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

hi Thor2018 and

tell us more about whats going on and how we can help

whats going on tonight?

[Thor2018]

Hi, I have been with a BPD woman for 3 years. I didn't know what it was for a while but her daughter hinted about it and I did some research. We have been living common law. She has packed up and left several times.
Most of the time, things are amazing. She is wonderful, kind, loving fun etc. Then her mood changes and it's hell. She yells, criticizes me and brings up every little thing that happened over the past 3 years.
She has been gone for 3 weeks now. We talk but a lot of the things she says are bad. She is on dating sites.
My counsellor asked why I put up with this and where is my self esteem. I replied that its the good 90% and her amazing positive side that keep me hooked. She is also very attractive. That is part of the hold she has on me.
I am semi retired and right now I don't have enough do. I try to exercise.
I just feel really bad, stressed and hopeless without her.
There is some chance she will want to come back and I know I will let her and I want that.

[once removed]

what led to her leaving this time? what usually spawns it?

also, how do you respond to her bad moods when shes yelling and criticizing you?

My counsellor asked why I put up with this and where is my self esteem. I replied that its the good 90% and her amazing positive side that keep me hooked. She is also very attractive. That is part of the hold she has on me.

i, and others here, can certainly understand why you stay. your counselor does have a point in that if we arent respecting and taking care of ourselves, if we lack firm boundaries, we can really lose ourselves, and that wont help any relationship. the trick is learning to get to a healthier and more confident place can make both you and your relationship stronger in the long run.

[Thor2018]

Thank you for asking and for being here for me. Trying to type this through tears.One of her reoccurring issues is trust. When I met her I still had a bit of contact with some ex girlfriends. That started it but in hindsight I think it would have just been something else that triggered her. She is extremely jealous and insecure. I am getting back in the work world and half the population of the planet (being female) are a threat to her. I was interviewed by a man and a blonde woman. I have endured hell because there was a woman at the interview.
I have the perfect storm. I retired just when I met her and moved out of the house I loved shortly after. I am having trouble adjusting to condo life.
I believe that this is fixable, but not easy.
What I struggle with is how to respond when she leaves. She has expressed a deep love for me. I have heard that ignoring her is risky.

[Thor2018]

When we have disagreements or when she is packing up to leave I usually try to reason with her. I tell her that I love her and ask her not to leave. I have heard that there is something about BPD people that gets inside you to your very core and that's what makes it so hard when they leave. I am feeling it big time right now. She just called and asked about my dog (had an operation) and was mostly angry. She mentioned the woman at the interview again (probably the 25th time) and hung up on me.

[Thor2018]

New here, still learning how to do this.
"if we arent respecting and taking care of ourselves, if we lack firm boundaries, we can really lose ourselves, and that wont help any relationship. the trick is learning to get to a healthier and more confident place can make both you and your relationship stronger in the long run."

Does anyone on this planet know how to safely establish boundaries with a BPD woman? I really need to know.

[once removed]

One of her reoccurring issues is trust. When I met her I still had a bit of contact with some ex girlfriends. That started it but in hindsight I think it would have just been something else that triggered her. She is extremely jealous and insecure.

this is a big one, for most people with BPD. there is an inherent distrust for people in general, and particularly loved ones. thats not to say trust cant be built, its that in trying times, it can be very shaky.

we have a workshop here on how to deal with a jealous partner, id love to hear your thoughts and if you take away any pointers as they apply to your relationship: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=78324.0

I have heard that ignoring her is risky.

ignoring anyone is risky. so is chasing... .i dont hear anything from what you say that suggests youre doing the latter, but its something you want to avoid.

but its very important that you detail for us, if you can, what is leading up to her leaving, what her reasoning is, what you think her reasoning might be. it may be, more or less, a means of getting her way so to speak.

Does anyone on this planet know how to safely establish boundaries with a BPD woman? I really need to know.

whats important to know is that boundaries arent a solution to conflict or daily squabbles. theyre a lifestyle built upon our values that we live. theyre about what and who we have control over.

have a read of this... .let us know your thoughts: https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

[Thor2018]

Hi, I need to collect the issues here:
Background: she has had several traumatic events in her life. Pregnant at a young age, death of a son, mother died in her lap. She says that her issues started when we met but I know that's not the case. I am not afraid of counselling or owning up to mistakes I have made. She lies. Can a relationship even survive that? She has had 4 previous relationships.(Ignoring the little fun and games in between) One lasted over 20 years. So... I think she had BPD then but she says it was good. I am baffled how this other guy could live with a BPD person for over 20 years. BTW he has had 2 heart attacks and is trying to drink himself to death. He still calls and says "I love you" to her. I put up with it because she expects a large inheritance from him.
Trust/Jealousy: After a few dates she stormed out because of contact from another woman. I didn't handle things perfectly then but I think its solvable.
She doesn't want me to have any friends around. According to her, my entire family except for my mother are messed up and I shouldn't be in touch with them.
What I find really amazing is that she is so insecure but she flirts and sometimes dresses inappropriately. I recognize that some of that is intended to keep my eyes on her.
When She Leaves: I have gone through all of the emotions and experienced a lot of what other guys on here have shared. My doctor believes that BPD people just do things or say things to validate how they are feeling. ie they are angry so therefore she finds a reason to show how I am a cheating SOB and she is leaving! Once I went for a walk. she took the opportunity to scour my computer until she found something to be pissed off about. She did it covertly. She could have just said "let's look at your computer" A major meltdown happened when one day I said that I will probably connect with my son on fathers day.
We have been apart for over 3 weeks. I try to stay in touch without chasing. I really don't know what chasing is in our relationship. She was rude to me earlier today. I have the willpower to not call her and try to suck up. I will wait for her to initiate contact. She is using dating sites and things like that to make me jealous. She is borderline in terms of risky behaviour.

[Thor2018]

Regarding Boundaries, I have had some trouble with this. I have let women take advantage of me. However I am not stupid. I have stood up other and said "listen to me. Hear what is bothering me" Actually I take that back. I have tried to say that but she talks non stop. I rarely get a chance to speak. I know. A lot of you are thinking... What the heck is this guy sticking around for? 

[Thor2018]

Update: earlier today she said she was going out. She deliberately gave me the impression that she had a coffee date with an online acquaintance. I turned my phone off. ( a big step for me! Boundaries and all that!) Later on when I turned my phone back on she texted and said ":)o You still love me?" She has not said that for at least one month. Once I started with the yes I do she resumed her her random ambiguous demands about trust. Then she went to bed! I am learning. I know she will try to save face in the morning and make new demands but I am starting to understand what to do. The girl loves me. She just has an issue that we need to deal with together. It won't be easy. For me? Stronger boundaries! I can do this!

[once removed]

A lot of you are thinking... What the heck is this guy sticking around for? 

we understand why youre sticking around. you love her. we are only here to support you and try to help you as you go, and we will be here whatever the outcome.

She lies. Can a relationship even survive that?

this is a determination that must be made by you personally.

what does she lie about? how often? are they big lies, little lies, both? how do you handle it?

She doesn't want me to have any friends around. According to her, my entire family except for my mother are messed up and I shouldn't be in touch with them.

this is not uncommon. what i can tell you is that its very important not to let your friends or family go by the wayside. you need a strong support system. if a relationship crashes and burns, we need those people around to lean on.

how do these conversations around your friends and family play out? does she mostly just voice her opinion, or does she make threats around you having contact with them?

My doctor believes that BPD people just do things or say things to validate how they are feeling. ie they are angry so therefore she finds a reason to show how I am a cheating SOB and she is leaving!

yeah, your doctor is right. people with BPD and BPD traits are largely driven by their emotions, even more so when emotions are flared up high. its very important not to get caught up in. its also important to listen with empathy (https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy) and to try to get at what is driving the underlying emotion. it can get easier to problem solve from there.

I try to stay in touch without chasing. I really don't know what chasing is in our relationship.

it sounds like you pretty well have it down. a lot of us, when we are in this situation, really double down on trying to show or prove our love, wear our heart on our sleeves, chase, even beg or plead, JADE... .this can push our partners (anyone really) away.

Regarding Boundaries, I have had some trouble with this.

did you read the link/article? remember, the term "setting boundaries" can be misleading.

The need for better “boundaries” is advice often given when someone complains about how another person has been treating them.

“Help, my girlfriend isn’t treating me well. Now she is giving me the silent treatment.”

“Well, friend, you need to set some boundaries”.

“You’re right, I have bad boundaries.”

From this discussion one might believe that if we are angry and say "no more" or even walk out that our girlfriend (or other loved one) will change their ways and all will be well. That's not what this is about.

[Thor2018]

Lying: she lies to me. She lies to other people right in front of me. It's often to avoid emotions that would be uncomfortable to her or related to a grudge she has with someone. eg if we are invited to go see someone. We are now in a pattern where if I ask her a question that she knows I might be able to check the answer, she is silent. She won't answer. I kick myself because she was without a doubt lying from the very start of our relationship but I just trusted her. Big lies and little lies. I sense that in her mind she often thinks lying is okay, BUT as a lot of you know I get accused of lying a lot. I don't. "The truth shall set you free"
Friends & Family: she talks, yells and threatens about this. She has told me to choose between her and them on several occasions. i was too soft at those times, but hey... I am hopelessly in love with the woman.
Boundaries: I read the article and have looked into this topic before. I am becoming aware that some of my soft boundaries can relate to my self esteem. I always thought... .love hard and you will get it back. I guess I am still learning!

[Thor2018]

So... .I am new here like you. You read my posts but you don't share what is going on with you... .help me by stepping up and sharing what is going on. This is just me, seeing you and asking you to tell us what is going on. I need to know... .

[once removed]

Lying: she lies to me.

have the two of you talked about it? is it possible that the two of you could work toward a system of transparency and accountability?

it can certainly be very frustrating, my ex told some lies, big and small, most of them pointless. its hard to trust a partner that does this.

Friends & Family: she talks, yells and threatens about this. She has told me to choose between her and them on several occasions. i was too soft at those times, but hey... I am hopelessly in love with the woman.

the danger can be that she learns that yelling and threats work. people with disorders do usually have lines that they wont cross, if they sense that they cant get away with it.

i went the opposite way. i always told my ex that if she ever put me in that position (and she tried to) that id choose my friends or family. what i did was send the message that she didnt matter, and that everyone else was more important, which wasnt the case. a good long term goal would be to avoid even having those conversations, because theyre a lose/lose.

So... .I am new here like you. You read my posts but you don't share what is going on with you... .help me by stepping up and sharing what is going on. This is just me, seeing you and asking you to tell us what is going on. I need to know... .

was this addressed to me or the board in general? my ex and i broke up seven years ago, and it taught me a lifetimes worth of lessons that im still learning today. im more than willing to talk about it if it will help.

[Mutt]

She doesn't want me to have any friends around.

Hi Thor 2018. You need friends and family around you for example you said that she blaming all of her problems on you. That’s hard to listen when the feedback is negative yuh need to balance that out and connect with people that can give you some positivity, realistic feedback and advice. Once Removed mentioned boundaries maybe that’s something to consider boundaries with spending time with others.

What do you for hobbies?

[Thor2018]

Hi Thor 2018. You need friends and family around you for example you said that she blaming all of her problems on you. That’s hard to listen when the feedback is negative yuh need to balance that out and connect with people that can give you some positivity, realistic feedback and advice. Once Removed mentioned boundaries maybe that’s something to consider boundaries with spending time with others.

What do you for hobbies?

Hi, Thank you for your comments. I need to share that I am in severe crisis. I will get the help I need. If you saw her you would be in crisis too. Or maybe you wouldn't.
I am going tomorrow for help with addictions. That is more than I wanted to share. I will post the rest on public forum

[RolandOfEld]

Hi Thor2018, I'm sorry the situation has taken a serious turn for you. Can you share more about what's happening? Please do reach out to us for whatever help or support you need to get you through this crisis.   

I agree with Mutt  that you need a stable group of family and friends around you to counter the chaos. Who do you have that you can tell what's happening to or got to for support? 

Receiving this kind of treatment, it would seem obvious to anyone on the outside that we should leave. But let's emphasize that those people are on the outside. Love is a deeply complex world, full of corners and countries only we can know. It's not black and white in other words (though it may be to a person with BPD), and we have our reasons for staying, whether they make sense or not they are reasons.

I'll just say from experience that crisis situations, scary as they are, can also be opportunities to set boundaries with your partner, for example if they are making unreasonable demands of you that you cannot fulfill. My wife went into a crisis (or extinction burst as its often called) when I refused to solve her job issues. But I held my ground even as she made threatened me over the phone, made suicide and self harm threats, and finally went into a semi-catatonic state. The result was she eventually returned to baseline and never made that demand of me again and took her own action.

Wishing you strength.

ROE

[RolandOfEld]

It can also be very helpful to engage with other threads on the board to get context from other people's experience.

[Thor2018]

Hi, ROE you are awesome. Your comments are great. I have identified from this site (self diagnosis , just realized how funny that is but whatever) that I probably am severely codependent with her. Some of you are maybe saying DUH? So... there are more reasons that I should leave than I have shared. They are significant. I am just checking in. May write more later. Thanks!

[Thor2018]

As others have shared I also need to re-establish who I am. I have always been a busy happy guy with lots of interests. The short answer is I know I need to be busier and around people more and I am trying but to be honest I don't feel it yet.

[RolandOfEld]

Thor2018 don't rush it. I am also trying to pull myself out of the depths of codependence. It's a day by day, moment by moment process. I'm trying to rebuilt broken relationships with my family (not successful yet), bring old friends back into my life, and try to get back into doing the things I used to love to do. You sound like you're doing a lot better than last week. Moment by moment, my friend. Try to create at least one moment of joy for yourself every day.     

ROE

[Thor2018]

Hey ROE, awesome message. I fully feel what you are saying. It's weird that you are in exactly the same place as me. It would be interesting to sit down and talk. I am stronger than I was a week or two ago. I am still obsessed with her but as you say we need to just go slow. I applaud the strength you have found within you and I know that someday we will both be okay. Keep it going man!

[RolandOfEld]

Hey Thor, great to hear from you. Very glad to hear your feeling some progress about the situation. Yes it is a day at a time thing. We can realize something intellectually but it might take the heart six months to catch up. We will make it! 

~ROE

[Thor2018]

Hey ROE, I hope you are making progress. I was feeling okay for a bit but had a relapse. I went NC and she e mailed me after a few days. I am severely codependant with her so naturally I responded. She says it's over and I keep trying. Actually as most people on here know, she always leaves the door open a bit. So I need to go NC again. I am currently learning as much as I can about my codependancy. One point I would like to make. I had a few relationships before her. I don't think that I had many codependency tendencies back then. I feel I was manipulated in this relationship and she found a weakness in me that was there.

[RolandOfEld]

Hey Thor, thanks for much for checking in. You might have brought this up in earlier posts but what led to the NC situation? Did you tell her that you would not be in contact or was it assumed? I can understand it's not at all easy and might take time to sustain.

I'm totally with you on the codependency issue. I'm restarting therapy in the next few weeks and plan to make it a focus, especially setting boundaries. I actually called the police on my wife a few weeks ago after she destroyed most of my clothing. The fallout was nasty but I think I've finally made my personal belongings safe. It was an example of boundary setting in the most extreme form.

On that note, I'm currently reading a book that a member recommended called Boundaries (link below). It's a Christian-focused but psychology based look at boundary setting and why so many of us fail at it. Even though I'm not Christian myself I find the principles very helpful.  
https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454

Yrs,
~ROE

[once removed]

Hey ROE, I hope you are making progress. I was feeling okay for a bit but had a relapse. I went NC and she e mailed me after a few days. I am severely codependant with her so naturally I responded. She says it's over and I keep trying. Actually as most people on here know, she always leaves the door open a bit.

hey Thor 2018,

what happened? why not post to get feedback when these interactions are occurring?

do you still want to reconcile the relationship?

[Thor2018]

Yes I should post more. We are still in contact by phone and e mail. Of course I still want her back and I understand that part of that is because I am obsessed with her and codependent.  I was never like that before I meet her. Some reading I have done suggests that BPD people can manipulate you in that direction but it was still myself who allowed it to happen.

I need to rebuild my support network, have 2 adult children who have treated me like crap ever since my divorce 8 years ago. I don't like where I live. So it's tough but I still have hope.

I just talked to her and it didn't make me feel any better. I am going to try to keep busy. One day at a time.

[once removed]

I just talked to her and it didn't make me feel any better.

what happened?

[Thor2018]

She has said several times that she is done and then she comes back. This time she has been gone a long time. On the phone she was intentionally hurting me with info about involvement with a new  guy. She lies so its hard to say how involved she is with anyone else. After 3 years she still has deep feelings like I do.
We have had so many happy times in 3 years. I understand BPD people so I know she can't help what she does. I am just sad because I wish I could fix it.