Valentine's Day Expectations

[Tattered Heart]

I guess my goal for this weekend is to let him know that this VD means a lot to me and why.

I think that is a good goal. I would take it a step further and let him know that you do want something for VDay. I encourge you to go look at DEARMAN technique to help you plan your conversation. If you'd like, you can practice what to say here.

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tattered Heart]

For vday my BPDbf expects something but i cant get anything for him.
1. because he set a rule in place to not buy each other gift ever ( but he still asks me all the time to buy him things. then ill have to remind him of the rule he set in place) *the rule was set in place because he was caught cheating multiple times and entertaining his guess with my gifts.

Sometimes our pwBPD makes hard and fast rules on a whim, for whatever reason it is, but then they back away from those rules as situations change. Could this be a rule that you guys re-look at and maybe make some changes to the "policy"?

It sounds he likes to get gifts from you and re-evaluating this might be a way to open up the discussion about what he wants for VDay.

[Tattered Heart]

He says, but those flowers were the prettiest ones in the grocery store to me. Yeah. Right. For Christmas, one year, he got me a pack of pencils and a sticky pad of to do notes, so I could try to get more of my chores done around the house in a timely manner... .yuck... .

So, yes, I just can't wait to see what put down he has disguised as a gift this year... .not really. OH! And this is important to him... .that he sees me be disappointed and have his desired reaction to his obviously less than choice.

I"m going to push just a little here to try to give a possible different perspective.  Could it be possible that he really did think the orange flowers were the prettiest but when he saw that you didn't like them, he had to push his shame away at not living up to what you wanted, and instead attacked you instead?

Just curious, what is the difference between red and orange flowers and their meaning?

I guess I'm seeing some of these gifts in a different light because I don't have the same history. It could be that he is being mean in his gift giving. He also could have a limited ability to think romantically about gift giving.

For instance the sticky notes sounds like something my H would do. Perhaps he heard you say that you need to get more organized with household stuff, or he saw an idea about household organization with sticky notes and thought, "Wow! That's what she wants!".

Many years ago, my H saw that I was starting to take an interest in jewelry. I would come home every few weeks with new jewelry so for my birthday he bought me a jewelry making kit. The necklaces and earring patterns in the kit were hideous and I had never once expressed any interest in making my own jewelry. But in his childlike mind, he thought "She likes jewelry. I'll save her some money on jewelry and she can make her own."

Another year for Christmas  I went to a store and took a pic of a purse I wanted, wrote down the brand name, and gave him the information on which store it was in. On Christmas I expected to open my present to the purse I had shown him, but he bought a different, similar but uglier purse (OK, it was an old lady purse). I masked my disappointment because he was so proud of himself for getting it for me. He said he chose a different one because he thought I'd be happier with him saving money instead. I used that ugly thing for 3 months before it was "time to get a new purse". A part of me felt like he was doing this on purpose, but looking back I realize that maybe it wasn't so on purpose as I thought but instead that he had different agendas in picking out his gift.

[Dignity&Strength]

Hi Tattered Heart,
Thank you for providing a different angle. I agree with you, sometimes it could be a well meaning thing, other times, a mean put down. So much of this has happened over the years, its easy to mix up the details of each of them, they seem to be the same theme. The orange ones actually were pretty, and I think his mean comment came after I said something like, I usually like the traditional red ones, but these really are unique and pretty. So, maybe he perceived my affirmation negatively and resorted to meanness. I don't think I cried over the flowers, but maybe over his mean statement about my less than deserving-ness afterwards.

Some of the gifts are thoughtful, or a part of them are, and if there's a hidden meaning, it is often delivered with a different tone of voice, with devaluing and contempt. Like, the stationary was from a Disney movie I had been watching over and over with our S 18months (Frozen), so he thought I would like that. But, he severely disapproved of my sitting in the recliner holding him while he slept, after nursing him to sleep. He thought I should be doing housework, instead of resting or sleeping myself. (S was a high maintenance infant, I was severely sleep deprived until he turned about 3). So, after his "I knew you liked Frozen" came the ugly "do more housework" comment. A mixed gift.

But overall, yes, I see your point, and think it's always good to check what I think of his efforts, and especially my reaction to them. Give him the benefit of the doubt if it's there. Affirm what I can. It's odd, sometimes I can redirect a mean spirited gift that way, by finding something to affirm instead of the emotional disappointed reaction. The trick there is responding instead of reacting.
Dig. New name, changed over from MJ.

[Radcliff]

I'm smiling/grimacing, because I've been on the other side of this, the guy coming home to a BPD wife.  I have come home with some gifts that I was pretty excited about, but in retrospect, were genuinely lame!  The fact that my wife was totally insensitive about it doesn't change the fact that they were lame   I have learned to work hard to find the truth wrapped in nasty word packages.  So... .I'm betting some of what you have seen is simply "guy excited about lame gift" territory.  TH, how nice of you to make it so simple and specify the purse!  I, too, have ad-libbed off a request, thinking I could make it just a little better by adding my own twist.  I learned my lesson on that one!  (OK, I'm a slow learner, I made that mistake several times, then finally learned

WW

[ScaredEmotional]

I think that is a good goal. I would take it a step further and let him know that you do want something for VDay. I encourge you to go look at DEARMAN technique to help you plan your conversation. If you'd like, you can practice what to say here.

Thanks for you response TH.

Just an update, I did tell him that this VD is important to me because it's our first together and my first with someone. He didn't seem to care too much stating that it's a rubbish day. I will reiterate my care for VD again tonight.

I've just had a look at the DEARMAN link you suggested and I will read over it some more because it sounds like something that I could use quite often, so thank you for that.

I still hold out hope that he will do something romantic for me, after all, he pulled of a surprise engagement that involved my whole family.

[Radcliff]

ScaredEmotional, I went back and read about your plans to pamper your guy on Valentine's Day.  He's a lucky guy!  Let us know how it goes for you!

If things don't seem to be working out as you'd hoped, as you said, you'll want to keep it positive and not activate his shame response.  Chalk it up as an investment -- you are teaching him by example that Valentine's Day can be a nice day.  That's Job 1.  You'll have a whole year to work on things before the next one

WW

[Dignity&Strength]

Thank you, scaredemotional, for pointing out the dear man list!
Ooh, that IS good. It may break down for me around the E, b/c my BPDh isnof the opinion that none of my feelings or opinions are valid, ever. But I am completely excited to try it sometime anyway!
Dig

[Enabler]

I've decided to come up with a covert way of buying W a gift, without buying W a gift... .I have 3 under 10yr Daughters so I've decided to use them as a partial smoke screen... .

Buy some very expensive but very yummy cakes from a french patisserie, coupled with a card to "All my Valentines".

Last year I bought a card and some chocolates and it was jammed angrily into a cupboard in disgust.

She can take or leave any sentiment she likes from this years attempts, I have zero expectations.

[Tattered Heart]

Thank you, scaredemotional, for pointing out the dear man list!
Ooh, that IS good. It may break down for me around the E, b/c my BPDh isnof the opinion that none of my feelings or opinions are valid, ever. But I am completely excited to try it sometime anyway!
Dig

D&S can you share an example of a situatuion where the "E" may not work for you? DEARMAN is good when you are talking about something you want or are trying to negotiate. SET is better for situations where you are trying to tell you pwBPD information they may not like or you want to share something with them. SET works by getting past their defense systems with support and empathy towards them first, then adding in truth.

[Tattered Heart]

I've decided to come up with a covert way of buying W a gift, without buying W a gift... .I have 3 under 10yr Daughters so I've decided to use them as a partial smoke screen... .

Buy some very expensive but very yummy cakes from a french patisserie, coupled with a card to "All my Valentines".

She can take or leave any sentiment she likes from this years attempts, I have zero expectations.

That sounds very sweet. I hope she appreciates yours efforts towards all of your girls.

[RandomName]

I was considering starting my own update thread but I'm going to chime in here with I DON'T KNOW. UexBPDgf and I were NC from 12/25 (uh-huh) until yesterday, after a previous break for months with somewhat low contact, then more intimate recycles (her always initiating and ending), until our last blow-out when I said I thought she might have BPD. She wrote me yesterday in response, disputed it, said I was more likely to have it, but was kind and appreciative overall, and we started texting and talking on the phone again and we didn't mention the elephant in the room. I honestly don't know if I should do something for tomorrow or not, and if so what that should be. We've known each other for a long while but this is the first 2/14 when some sort of gift or whatever has been perhaps expected. She last said weeks ago that she wanted to be friends and yesterday that she was not seeing anyone, but she also reconnected partly because of romantic reasons, mentioning Valentine's, and we flirted quite a bit. I have been in damned-if-I-do, damned-if-I-don't positions before with gestures with her, where instincts have served me and backfired. Part of me thinks "hell, I already thought it was over, so go for it" (flowers most likely), while part of me has that familiar anxiousness.

Any advice would be most appreciated, thanks! 

[Tired_Dad]

Valentine's Day Irrational anger day is just around the corner.

I expect no kindness and the best gift to me from her would to have it be just another Wednesday.

I loath any holiday, event, scheduled activity for all the irrational weight it carries with her.

[Chirimoya]

Well, he just moved out today. To move in with another woman. I cried floods of tears for about an hour, but right now honestly I am feeling great.  Like a baby who has been burped. I plan to make myself some belated Pancake Day breakfast pancakes.  Hell, I might even cut them into heart shapes  

[Enabler]

Well, he just moved out today. To move in with another woman. I cried floods of tears for about an hour, but right now honestly I am feeling great.  Like a baby who has been burped. I plan to make myself some belated Pancake Day breakfast pancakes.  Hell, I might even cut them into heart shapes  

If only the other woman knew what was going to hit her.

You’re very brave and I hope you went large with the Nutella!

[Enabler]

That sounds very sweet. I hope she appreciates yours efforts towards all of your girls.

There’s no doubt she will find external appreciation near impossible, however I hope there’s a little ember in there which glows a few degrees hotter for a few seconds.

[Lady Itone]

After much waffling, she's informed me she IS coming on vday, has bought her bus ticket, and "please don't ruin this trip." (Projection. She's the one that ruins things.)

Then she informed me she wants her valentine present as soon as she gets here. I was like, um, I hadn't planned on presents. I asked her if she got me something she said "No but I want something."

Un-friggin-believable

[Radcliff]

Well, he just moved out today. To move in with another woman. I cried floods of tears for about an hour, but right now honestly I am feeling great.  Like a baby who has been burped. I plan to make myself some belated Pancake Day breakfast pancakes.  Hell, I might even cut them into heart shapes  

What timing... .

Great idea with the pancakes!

I'm going to buy flowers for my daughters and take my mom to dinner.

Good luck everyone!

WW

[Tattered Heart]

I have been in damned-if-I-do, damned-if-I-don't positions before with gestures with her, where instincts have served me and backfired. Part of me thinks "hell, I already thought it was over, so go for it" (flowers most likely), while part of me has that familiar anxiousness.
 

I guess my first question would be: Do you WANT to get her something or do you feel obligated to do so? If your answer to wanting to get her something is yes, then get it. If the answer is that you feel obligated, then I would look at why you feel obligated and reconsider whether you buy something or not.

[dumpsterdog]

So i sent her a brief note monday , stating that i would not be sending her a v day card because she has made it clear that i'm no longer her v tine... .she responded... ." love doesnt exist between humans for me "... .in her typical dramatic victim lingo when shes hermitting... .

So I assured her that love would exist if she chose to let it... .

fast forward... .because i understand her abandonment trigger... .i did sent her a not today stating that i am here for her and that i do love her, and just wanted her to know that even if there was no reciprocation...

she actually did respond very quickly... Thank you ... .I did love you... .and that will maybe always be there, but i just cant hold on to it due to all that has happened,, it is very sad,  but happy valentines day to you as well "


I replied " I understand your point, and yes , it is very sad "


take care of yourself and your dogs'


and i left it at that... .but at least she has come up for air a little and has communicated a little lately ... .even if it sounds morbid, at least its communication.

[Chippy]

I somewhat lucked out and my pwBPD notified me two days ago that she was expecting valentines activities (Despite being very vocal to everyone that "she was going to be her own valentines this year" and wasn't doing anything with anybody). Yes, that's short notice, but I am happy for any notice... .it gave me enough time to get some gifts and plan and shop for dinner for us to make... .so fingers crossed on limited drama :-)

[dumpsterdog]

I think what maked our contact work was that the message was " we are not together  anymore "... i think that took the pressure off... .and just letting her know i still cared without expecting anything on her part i thik was a key... .we shall see... .she at least admitted she loved me and was sad about where things stand now... .so i will be silent for a while and take it as is... .with no expectations.
\

[isilme]

Ok, after the terrible weekend, I guess he managed to get it out of his system - he snuck off during work to pick out his own flowers for me from the store, picked up some chocolates, and even has dinner ready to go when we get home tonight .  He seemed to like his gift (man jewelry box for watches and such, I've gotten him a LOT of watches in 22 Valentines/Birthdays/Christmases) - we will see if his expectations are reasonable for later in the evening or if he has another meltdown like this weekend.  So far, it's been a nice day, hate for it to go downhill. 

Hope everyone else is doing as okay as they can be. 

[ScaredEmotional]

Despite our morning not going how I would have liked, he once again told me he didn't believe in Valentine's Day, the day turned out quite wonderful.
Weeks ago I organised for a giant teddy to be delivered to his work, somehting he had been pointing out he wanted in recent weeks. Needless to say, he loved it and was very appreciative. He told me he also had something for me. I was surprised as I wasn't expecting anything so expectations were low.

We had spoken numerous times on the phone that day as usual and come lunch time, right after we hung up, he appeared at my workplace , flowers and balloons in hand. It was so romantic and I was so thankful! It's all I wanted, acknowledgment of a day that I valued (remebering this is our first VD together). He also brought tickets to a water park for the two of us because he knew how much I loved it last time I went.

Turns out I had a pretty great day. I hope others were pleasantly surprised too

[xyz-Girl]

My exBPDbf and I are on a break rn. it's being a week since it all happened, I am currently with the flu. been in bed all day, and i have not texted him neither he has texted me yet wishing a happy valentine's day. Should i initiate contact? not sure what to do since he was the one that needed the time.

[Dignity&Strength]

Xyz girl,
I truly value making my own choices, based on my own values. Sometimes it takes me a while to define those. I feel better about my choices though, after I've put in the time.

A lesson I have learned, being married to a BPDh, is that I am the caretaker of me. He is not the caretaker of me. That said, I have learned to have no expectations of him, to meet my needs, especially on holidays. Self care, is key to living in this.

Some questions that help me arrive at my values: What are my needs? What can I do to meet those myself, not counting on him for anything? What would I do if he were well? Would I have to? What does this look like since he's not? How can I be the best version of me, with dignity, strength, honor, and integrity, no matter what anybody else does? Above all else, I remind myself, I have value, and dignity as a person and a woman, no matter what he does.

Happy Valentine's Day.
Dig.

[xyz-Girl]

Xyz girl,
I truly value making my own choices, based on my own values. Sometimes it takes me a while to define those. I feel better about my choices though, after I've put in the time.

A lesson I have learned, being married to a BPDh, is that I am the caretaker of me. He is not the caretaker of me. That said, I have learned to have no expectations of him, to meet my needs, especially on holidays. Self care, is key to living in this.

Some questions that help me arrive at my values: What are my needs? What can I do to meet those myself, not counting on him for anything? What would I do if he were well? Would I have to? What does this look like since he's not? How can I be the best version of me, with dignity, strength, honor, and integrity, no matter what anybody else does? Above all else, I remind myself, I have value, and dignity as a person and a woman, no matter what he does.

Happy Valentine's Day.
Dig.

Dig,

Thank you for your response, I understand your advice. I think i never thought i would have no expectations because I never felt any splitting on his side before, this is brand new to me, yes he have broken up before for small stupid reason, we fix it tho. This time seems like he is a different person, and I ended up sending him a text. Not expecting any text in returned tho. I think my heart and mind wants to believe his behavior is because of this condition and not because he is really not interested in me anymore but i am not sure what to think now. It kinda feels he just doesn't want to be with me anymore, and if that is the case then yes, i need to move on with dignity and integrity. maybe i am giving him a free pass because of his condition and the love i have for him? Have you ever had a similar situation happened to you before?

[Dignity&Strength]

Hi xyzgirl,

"maybe i am giving him a free pass because of his condition and the love i have for him? "

Well, I wouldn't call it a free pass. I'd call it making your decisions considering the BPD issue first. Imagine if that didn't exist. What choice would you make? The same or different? I often make family decisions based on the idea, "what would this look like if he didn't have this?"

The "because of your love for him"... .does that unconditionally include everything about him? Just curious, have you read anything on narcissism on this site? Is there a chance you may be missing something he may have done called "love bombing"?

Dig.

[xyz-Girl]

Hi xyzgirl,

"maybe i am giving him a free pass because of his condition and the love i have for him? "

Well, I wouldn't call it a free pass. I'd call it making your decisions considering the BPD issue first. Imagine if that didn't exist. What choice would you make? The same or different? I often make family decisions based on the idea, "what would this look like if he didn't have this?"

The "because of your love for him"... .does that unconditionally include everything about him? Just curious, have you read anything on narcissism on this site? Is there a chance you may be missing something he may have done called "love bombing"?

Dig.

No, I don't think he is a narcissist, neither he did the love bombing technique. And yes, the fact that I am confused with this whole situation is because I am considering his BPD behavior above it all. If he would not have being diagnosed, i would have said bye bye after this. I actually was 3 days in on NC, already had cried a bunch, was accepting the fact that was over when he texted me, I had such pain that it made everything worse, we got into a fight, and now he is taking "his break" dating other girls. I am sure he will text me in a couple of days again and prob deny all his dates. So how am I supposed to trust him? Even if this is all out of his BPD, he might do it again right? I don't think i can handle another situation out of the blue like again  I am scared!

[Dignity&Strength]

Xyz,

I can only share my experiences, truly, because the choices you make belong to you. In my experience, with my BPDh, experiences seem circular. That is, a cycle of good, crisis, semi make up, then back to good. Mine particularly enjoys his power to make me cry. Round and around. Doesn't really matter what the topic is, it's just a somewhat predictable cycle of relational on and off, but in a steady, downward decline of healthy. There are small gains and major losses. I have lost a lot of myself. And blurred my values and severely altered the route to my personal life goals. But nearly all and the worst of that happened in the context of marriage, which changed everything logistically, financially, legally, etc. for me, limiting my options, because he succeeded in isolating me and making me financially dependent on him, since I wanted to be a stay home mom.  I only saw a little bit before the wedding. So truly, I'm not sure what to do with a BPD boyfriend. Maybe others here have better experience there. Warmly, and best wishes, Dig.