How to find a therapist for BPD for a therapist who want BPD diagnosis herself?

[darkchyld]

My SO has 2 Master's degrees in psychology and clinical counseling and now a TLMHC herself. We both are certain she has BPD or BPD and NPD together. She appears as high functioning, protects herself with a mask of being together, professional, and in fear masks an intrical part of herself when with a new therapist... .the impairment of personal areas of her own life i.e. she is her own worst enemy.

In that respect, she seems to be like many other pwBPD in that she is very guarded, distrustful, carries a huge amount of shame, and cannot let down the walls that obscures the view into the Hell we have walked together. Our life together has been wrought with every classic story which befalls couples who struggle through this together. Every characteristic, textbook actions, reactions, and a persona she drops only to myself and I as a 'recovering" codependent in the past not only acted romantically and ignorantly in every way to enable and even cause her to be her worst version of herself... .but behind closed doors.

As my own education, and literally after 1 year of no contact, we reunited and as you would expect, ended up back in the paradox we were in before but this time with my own boundaries in place, without denial, and without my overt attempts to fix, rescue, or enable. Honestly, all of the traits I now possess, are adequate at best, but I myself have a lifetime of bad habits and ingrained behaviors which make it quite a learning experience and not always successful. I know I myself, still am a work in progress, but my SO states I am also much different person this time around. Though I am sure I could do better, I am happy to say it has afforded us not allowing her to get any worse than she is now, which is a lot like a holding pattern.

She is accountable when not triggered, and her FOG, gaslighting, projection, and even her anger has been rendered less effective. But being at the crossroads, she would need to open herself up to more trust, intimacy, empathy, and vulnerability, in order to bring us any closer together.

The new me, has fast tracked us to this place 3 years faster and without being nearly as toxic for us both as well as her teen and my tween children. As for herself, as well as our family, there isn't an aspect of it that isn't being affected. Her 17 yr old shows all the signs of also carrying the same genetic predisposition, enmeshed with Mother, isolated by choice, and likely has gender dysphoria as SHE is now identifying as HE, and would prefer to be neither. My own daughter has mild ADHD from her own Mother's family genetics which are the poster children for that disorder. She is fairly happy, doing well in school, and so far only struggles with the lack of intimacy that she identifies with feeling like family with this Mother/Son(?) combination. My daughter like myself, accepts them, loves them, but this time a bit guarded in getting closer unless they initiated it, which they don't know how to do.

I myself, have my own business of 29 years, have no apparent mental illness except codependency which in its own extreme forms should be one. My oldest and I have a rare genetic pancreatic condition only diagnosed 1000 times in the U.S., he is now 18, 5 years post-transplant, is intelligent, built like the Man of Steel, healthy as an ox, studying to be a M.D. and dating an 18 year old who is was hospitalized for her own BPD or as far as they will at her age. His own Mother has an undiagnosed BPD, she admits to having but refuse any treatment for. Both her and I "blessed" him with the codependent traits and affinity for a BPD of his own, but due to much of my insight and his own experiences... .handing his relationship light years more aware and works everyday to hold his boundaries which has in turn done wonders for his girlfriend and today they are doing quite well and for the most part balanced.

Now with that said, and being myself writing on the bpdfamily's board, it may appear that I am still fixing or rescuing, but I assure you that you would be correct but I would add only in the most modest form. I am doing my best to put my needs on hold but not ignoring them even for a day. My lines drawn, though soft, are still in place and my expectation has been altered, but they are also visible and definitive. My SO is the one pursuing the diagnosis, for herself, our offspring, and our relationship. Yes, I encourage, but learned the hard way we all need to own our own issues.

    The issue is my SO, due to her expertise, education, personality, persona, and high functioning intellectual, NEEDS a diagnosis in order to relax her deathgrip on the resistance and doubt she has when she gets triggered. With it, she and I both feel she would be able to exhale and accept it with relief... .which in turn would be some comfort and allow her to focus on more specific treatment instead of around the real disorder. It sounds like a trivial detail, and only a label, but without another counselor being able to see it or diagnosis, part of her will continue to fight it and when she is triggered, less likely to project it onto me or use the lack of diagnosis as reason for procrastination, avoidance, and self-doubt in regard to it. She has been to 3 previous counselors, and one currently, since we have been together. But as is likely the case for most, the first two she was in denial and/or not recognizing it at all.

The 3rd was a PhD who claims like many to be truly experienced in the BPD paradigm. My SO even stated to this psychologist, to beware that she will likely attempt to avoid real treatment, subtly steer her or misdirect, and otherwise slowly enmesh them in a convoluted "friendship". One in which they will end up talking shop or she will gloss over her real issues (without mentioning initially of her lack of connection with abandonment before the age of 2, or her being molested at 3-4 years old which caused her to distrust everyone especially men), and instead appear to be well-adjusted when she isn't, happy when she mostly feels empty, with anger issues by deflecting the focus onto how I am the real problem in her life.

In 6 months she had once again, done just that, and not until my SO divulged more about her sessions to me, hadn't even realized herself that she had done so, but when she caught herself, it was too late... .the PhD was thoroughly "brainwashed" into thinking she had BPD tendencies, the same old depression or anxiety, obviously was not overtly acting out anything, stressed with her internship, etc., and hinted about the real issue being myself influencing her to be armchair diagnosing her was some abusive tactic/manipulation.

Meanwhile as she finished her degree and got her pre-licensing, a lifelong pursuit, she felt no joy. She was disconnected from the kids, alienated or lashed out myself, wasn't looking for work, literally drinking a bottle of wine every other day to cope, forgetting to take meds, doing nothing around home, became reclusive one day, and horribly abusive (as I am sure you know what I speak) most other days, as she spent money we didn't have on the most inane things, all of which caused us to sink deeper into debt. She stopped seeing that therapist about the same time she kicked my daughter and I out in the middle of winter during the week of Christmas in below 0 weather. We moved into a new place at the time December 22nd... .6 inches of snow hit 24 hours later. We survived.

   My SO due to having a 3200 sq ft home now empty as the contents I had bought after she signed on the home without allowing me to cosign, slipped into near poverty. It made her get to work at the social work job she still had, slow the drinking to a trickle, do the bare minimum of self-care, slowly stand on her own two feet, and clean up her act as best she could.

Now as I stated, I had went NO contact, none... .from calls, to e-mails, social media, etc., I didn't even open messages or respond to the hatefulness. As I found out later, the 7 or 8 attempts over the course of 2016 began changing in tune. It was only due a series of chance, that my daughter saw and opened a message, which yes, opened a dialogue, blah, blah, blah, and here we are again. This time with my name on the house, and my emotional head on tight as it were. with support, but as little enabling as possible, I encouraged for her to continue to her pursuit ofthe diagnosis as well as begin her counseling career, and her desire as well as mine to wrong some rights.

But as the PD would intervene, and as you reading would be able to recant, we hit the same rodblocks when it came time to work on adding any vulnerability and more intimacy, but without any alcohol... .to our relationship or closeness to a reunited family. She had found a wonderful new job, started seeing clients, etc., it all came tumbling down once she saw herself unable to execute promises, or even get closer to my daughter again. She couldn't bring herself to work on dividing the enmeshment with her own teen, or drop her facade to her new therapist whom the visit before last commented on how difficult it was to see her as having issues when she seemed so together and more confident in conversation than even herself. She quit smoking the week she had thrown us out, her drug use from early adulthood behind her, she no longer drinks (until yesterday in despair), she has been taking her anti-depressants, anti-psychotic, sleeping pills at night, hasn't the money to spend, waffles from uber submissive hypersexual to sleeping in another room, so she has been over-eating quite a bit. Even though she still hasn't shared these details, or the worst experiences with her counselor, my SO came home today despondent, as that same counselor stated that she just doesn't see her as having a disorder due to not having the tendencies doing much harm to the different areas of her life.

As we get closer every day to losing the house she adores, if she could adore anything in her emptiness inside, she feels hopeless. She is self-aware enough to see how bad her issue are, but waiting for the diagnosis to be able to let go and open up... .but ironically without opening up she puts her mask on by unconscious primal instinct to protect her fragile self... .or what she knows of it. She doesn't know who she is, how to do anything about her teen who she had never really parented, but terrified to lose... .and doesn't know how to give her/him(?) guidance, we  don't have the family we spoke of, feels like a failure, and I can only say so much without knowingly stepping on a trigger. Not that I am handling them like eggshells, but aware that it would do us no good to blatantly stomp on them without her getting more help.

We have talked then she gets triggered and then she turns back into the classic BPD raging, and then back again. I am holding it together pretty well, running my business, doing stuff with my daughter, accepting that her teen stays in their room 90%of the time out of school, I do about 40% of the housework, the kids do about 30%, and she if left with the rest for example i.e. not enabling by doing more and more to placate her. And there you have it everyone. The lovely story as it is, so here I am.

   So with her illness being rooted in the deepest form of BPD due to the earliest unmet needs, with a lifelong mask/persona winning the battle, a counselor herself with 2 Master's degrees in the very field she needs to counsel her, and faux charismatic, confidence she puts forth as a high-functioning invisible BPD, Millon petulant type, Gunderson High Borderline to the definition, my question is: How does she find a counselor to recognize the aforementioned and still able to diagnose she has it? Yes, she realizes she is her own worst enemy... .

  Yes, she realizes she is her own worst enemy. Just as I realize, even in the realm of Cluster B's, I have accepted and am very much in love with the rarest and most elusive pwBPD of them all! But what are ya gonna do?

 *My hope is one of you have some expert insight. I realize this is only my first post but my SO and I am out of places to turn. Thank you everyone!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[Gemsforeyes]

Dear darkchyld

I read every word.  I hope I understood every word and the timeline correctly, but it's very late.

This is only how I feel.  My feelings are based on what I've lived through... .my own early traumas and where they landed.  And my 4.5 year relationship with my BPD BF.  He does not admit to being diagnosed, but I have reason to believe he has been.  He takes minimal, if any steps to help himself.  He will be 60 next month, and he has alienated nearly everyone he has ever met, including his three sons.  This has been his choice.  I know he can regulate when he wants to, because he has maintained a very responsible job for 14 years.  I learned about BPD less than a year ago when I googled "unprovoked rage in men".  He fit EVERY trait except for cheating.  I would imagine that had we met 10 years earlier, he would have fit that, too.  I FINALLY realized what on earth was happening here.

If I could sit with your beloved for a few moments face to face, I would simply say to her "you don't have to feel like this".  And you don't have to be labeled by someone with certain credentials as "BPD" in order to help yourself heal.  Acknowledging that one deeply important thing is so vital.

Your beloved knows her emptiness, she knows her rage, she knows what she can and cannot control.  She knows she can sit before a therapist and move the discussion in a direction that "avoids" the hard work.  And with her level of education, she may know about DBT (therapy), which reportedly has really wonderful results for people with BPD.  And CBT (therapy) which is reportedly very effective for people with complex PTSD.  I am looking into CBT  for myself.

If she feels uncontrolled in certain of her behaviors, and emptiness inside (many people do at times), and unresolved rage and anger that is sometimes out of her control, she MAY have BPD.  But she may not.  There are several traits that lead to that diagnosis.  And not everyone who has experienced severe childhood trauma, or trauma in their teens has BPD.

Here's my amateur opinion.  I would like your beloved to say and acknowledge that she doesn't want to feel like this anymore.  That she doesn't HAVE to feel like this... . I recommend that she finds a BPD THERAPIST who does DBT therapy.  And before going, write a detailed description of her behaviors, from her rages to her blaming, projecting, any lying, manipulation, any self-harming, feelings of emptiness (be descriptive) and hand it to the therapist.  Tell the therapist she HAS to do it in writing in order to be honest because she's afraid to say it and she WANTS help!

I turned 60 a few months ago.  I shoved my early childhood torture way down; and what happened later was just piled onto that.  Turns out that pain wasn't done with me.

The best time to get better is now.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Mutt]

 Hi darkchyld,



I’d like to join gemforeyes and welcome you to the family. Wow getting kicked out at Christmas in freezing temperature is tough. I can tell that you care for her very much, you signed up and you’re looking for answers I noticed most of your focus is on her and you didn’t share too much about yourself. You have your own business, are you working long hours? How’s your r/s with your kids, Do you find time for yourself for self care? What do you do for self care? What’s your support network like?

A diagnosis helps to understand what you’re dealing with and how to treat it, BOD shares so many traits with other mental illnesses, they overlap and it can be misdiagnosed, usually there’s a clinical depression, anxiety, PTSD, ADHD and comorbid personality disorders. Maybe she has some traits and not all the traits, were not professionals and can’t diagnose what we can look at are traits of BPD.

A pwBPD m have low self worth, low self esteem, self loath and self hate and need a lot of validation, yuh can learn the communication tools to help in your r/s, maybe someone can speak to your request?

We’re glad to have you it helps to talk to others that are in a similar situation and can offer you guidance and support.

Anosognosia and Getting a "Borderline" into Therapy

Communication Skills - Don't Be Invalidating

PS You’ll find the lessons on the right side of the board.  

[Radcliff]

darkchyld,

Let me join Gemsforeyes and Mutt in welcoming you!  It sounds like you are trying to move mountains to try to get your wife to a better place.  With her skill set and behaviors, it does sound pretty difficult to get an accurate diagnosis.  You've heard the saying about insanity being doing the same things over and over again and trying to get different results? 

Instead of trying to go straight through the obstacle, can you adapt your approach and go around it?  You and she probably know that DBT is the best treatment for BPD.  It is skills training, and the DBT therapist that is working with my wife never mentions BPD.  You could even spin DBT as part of your wife's professional development.  Marsha Linehan, the inventor of DBT, had BPD.  Your wife could eventually become a DBT therapist!  So, why not forget the diagnosis and just jump straight to skills development through DBT?

You can learn more at the Behavioral Tech Web site.  That Web page also has a link to help you find a DBT therapist.  As you may know,  ":)ialectical" in Dialectical Behavioral Therapy means that it combines acceptance of the person as they are now with the opposite concept of the need for change.  This acceptance is crucial for making the pwBPD feel safe.  DBT has four main focus areas:  Mindfulness, emotional regulation, distress tolerance, and interpersonal effectiveness.  They target the problems that are making the pwBPD miserable and that are hard on us "nons."

WW