Battle of Wills

[Mariez]

I've currently getting the silent treatment from my uBPD mother.  After an argument 6 months ago, I called and text her several times with no answer or response.  As a last resort,  I sent her a Facebook message asking her to get together in person to discuss our argument and explain ourselves to work the problem out.  I received a short nasty reply and then of course, she blocked me on FB and I couldn't respond.  I suspect my phone number may have been blocked too.

Fast forward to now: a friend of hers likes to email me and tell me that I need to call my poor mom.  She makes me feel really guilty, but I have repeatedly told her that I reached out to my mother and she refused to speak.  So, as far as I'm concerned, the ball is in her court.

Well, her friend emailed me today and told me that my mom's dog died and that I really need to call her, because she is so upset.

I feel terrible that my mom's dog died.  I know that has to be hard on her right now.  But, this is really triggering a lot of anxiety inside of me.  I already attempted contact with her and she didn't accept.  I always have to be the one to reach out after her explosive episodes and I think it's really unfair.  I have felt better interpreting this situation as the ball being in her court.  But, her friend is interpreting it as us being "stubborn".  I am not trying to be petty and have a battle of wills.  But, I just don't want to be the "bigger person" anymore.

I'm very confused about my feelings right now and feel very conflicted about what I should do.

[Harri]

Hi Mariez. 

I'm very confused about my feelings right now and feel very conflicted about what I should do.

It sounds to me like you have a pretty good handle on your feelings  it is just when someone comes along and throws some FOG you way that you begin to question your choice.  Check out this article:  Emotional Blackmail: Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG).

At this point, staying away from you mother is self-care for you.  It is also respecting her wishes.  She is the one who has chosen to stop talking, block you and has not reached out to you so for you to break that?  It could and maybe will be seen as an act of disrespect.  Next time this friend of your mom's contacts you tell her thank you for the update but to stop contacting you as your mother will when she is ready.    Okay, I have tried to find a kinder way to say that and unfortunately I can not right now.     Can you think of wording you would be comfortable with?  Something like I appreciate your concern however, ____ .  No explanation. No defending or justifying yourself.  There is nothing to defend here.  You are within your rights to make healthy choices about your self-care.

Thoughts?

[Mutt]

Hi Mariez,

The FOG link that Hari gave you is good, read it several times and when you feel anxiety turn to us and read the article, depersonalize the behaviours ( FOG ) you neither like it or hate it. Her friend is trying to fix, I agree with Hari take really good care of yourself first and don't get in the middle of your mom and her friend.

[Fie]

Hello  


You must feel very anxious about this all, I know I would.  

I'm very confused about my feelings right now and feel very conflicted about what I should do.

I don't think you should do anything ! First, this NC was chosen by your mum. So even *if* you wanted to do something, maybe you shouldn't ? Your mum may have BPD, but still is an adult and responsible for her actions. If she wants NC ... .I also agree with Harri that staying away from your mum may actually be the healthy thing for you to do right now. Maybe taking a break from everything and just enjoying the NC might be a better idea than letting yourself get nervous by your mom's friend instead.   Although I totally understand it, I guess I could have the same.

Second, have you heard about the concept of 'flying monkeys' ? Your mum's friend is acting like  one now. Telling her politely to mind her own business is the only thing that will keep you off the so called drama triangle.         (there you go Harri, I was less polite than you  ;-)       )

There is a good chance that your mum is instigating her friend to contact you and tell you that your mother is in such a deplorable state, blabla.  Her dog dead is not the greatest thing in the world, I agree. But your mother has a daughter she can turn to (you), and this daughter is alive and even still willing to keep contact. So let's keep everything in perspective here.

If I were you, my only answer to this friend would be : 'my mother can contact me if she wants, no worries'. And repeat if necessary. She insists you contact her instead ? Just repeat what you said : 'my mother can contact me if she wants'. You'd be surprised about the power of repetition  

[Harri]

This from Fie!---> 'my mother can contact me if she wants, no worries'. And repeat if necessary... .You'd be surprised about the power of repetition  Polite way to say mind your own business , gets right to the point, is easy to remember and works in many many situations!  Start practicing!   

What do you think Mariez?

[Mariez]

Yes, her friend is a well meaning person. I did tell her that I think she is getting conflicting information.  I reiterated that I have reached out to my mom and she is the one refusing contact.  It was just really upsetting to get this email because I do worry about my mom a lot, but I was starting to feel less pain about it.  I know her dog dying is probably really hard on her. 

I wish I would have read these replies yesterday.  Last night before bed I was thinking about her and I sent her a text that simply said "I'm sorry about 'dogs name'".  Of course she did not reply.  I initially felt good that I sent the text at the time.  Until she didn't answer and now I feel discarded once again.  I don't think I will try reaching out to her anymore.  Which probably means we will never talk.  I just want a normal mother.

[Harri]

Hi Mariez.   

Sending the text was not wrong, it just hurt a lot and I am so sorry for that. 

It is hard to understand why our mom's (or family members) do things like this but it is what they do.  It just is.  I get wanting a normal mother.  It seems so inadequate to say we can learn to give to ourself what our moms should give.  I don't care if it is true, all I know is that it makes me a bit angry right now.   

Remember, what she chooses to do and how she chooses to responds has everything to do with her and this disorder and nothing to do with you. 

[Fie]

I am really sorry for how that turned out.
You didn't do anything wrong by sending the message. You were showing kindness, and indeed were discarded again.

Maybe I'm not in the right place to tell you, because I also get a bit angry when I hear this - my grandmother treated me like this. But maybe sending this message and hearing nothing back will make you decide if this is what you really want ... the constant discard. I decided I didn't want it. My grandmother knows she can contact me. I love her, and sometimes I really miss her. But I don't want to contact her again, because I then feel like I'm running after someone who doesn't really want me.

For what it's worth, I also know how being discarded by your mum feels like. Sometimes I have the feeling that I forgive my mother for the things she did/didn't do. But *how* on earth is it possible that you do not want contact with your own child. I am a mother myself, and even if I try really really hard, I cannot wrap my mind around it. And I probably never will.

[cedarview]

Hi Mariez,

I agree with just staying no contact. As the child of a parent with BPD you are in a no-win situation and unfortunately that is where your Mom wants you to be. If you remain no contact, she can complain that she is neglected. If you initiate contact her silent treatment of you is validated as a method to get you to "come to heel" as it were. That is why some of the really insightful people on this board point out that the non contact is not about punishing your Mom it is about taking care of yourself. It is too bad that your Mom's illness makes her incapable of putting your needs above her own. We expect that our Moms will take care of us and want what is best for us, but those of us with BPD Moms know that there is a big empty drafty space where all that caring is supposed to come from and it will never be filled the way we want it to be.

I forget the acronym for it (similar to Fear Obligation Guilt), but when you find yourself defending yourself and trying to explain why you are choosing path you have chosen, you are again in a no-win situation. Your Mom's friend means well but she has no idea what it is like being your Mom's daughter. My wife and I also have been described as "being stubborn" because we drew boundaries for my parents that has resulted in the silent treatment for 3 months and counting. Guess what? We are stubborn! Stubbornly protecting our family and our own mental health. Your Mom is an adult making her own decisions and the ball CLEARLY is in her court. Stay strong and leave it there! And late at night when you are wavering in your commitment to yourself, just remember that SHE was the one to swat your hand away. The BPD in your Mom sees you as the problem that needs solving but from what I have read you are not a problem at all, just a daughter who has been abused (the silent treatment is indeed abuse). Please stay strong and know that there are a lot of us out here going through the same struggles every day. Speaking for myself, extended NC has been good for me and my family.

[cedarview]

For what it's worth, I also know how being discarded by your mum feels like. Sometimes I have the feeling that I forgive my mother for the things she did/didn't do. But *how* on earth is it possible that you do not want contact with your own child. I am a mother myself, and even if I try really really hard, I cannot wrap my mind around it. And I probably never will.

Fie is on point with this. As a Dad myself I can't think of many circumstances under which I would ever abandon my kids, and yet that is exactly what my parents are doing to me and, by extension, their grandchildren.

[Mariez]

Thank you everyone.  I am so thankful for this board. 

I'm sure any of you with BPD mothers know that these things are hard for other people to appreciate when you try to discuss it.  As you guys pointed out, most mother's would never cut off their own children.  Especially for something so trivial.  I think a lot of people just assume that this isn't the full or actual situation. Her friend kept saying, "My boys tell me they love me every day.  The visit me regularly. etc etc"  It hurts, because I want that stuff with my mom.  I have had it sometimes, but it never lasts.

The weird thing is - growing up, she made a big deal about never cutting people off or having your last words be angry, because you never know if something could happen to that person.  She stressed this so much in my childhood to the point that it is a huge worry of mine in adulthood.  And ironically, she does it to everyone.

This just felt like a bit of a set back.  With NC, I have been thinking this is all her choice and decision.  It is beyond my control I tell myself.  Which alleviates the guilt of feeling a responsibility to fix this. But it also doesn't feel good that her choice is not to mend it.  It feels like a lose-lose. 

 

[LeneLu]

But, now you know.  You reached out, she didn't respond.  The next time the friend pleas with you, tell her you tried.  You were true to yourself when you texted.  Don't forget that.

[Fie]

You were probably groomed to take on too much responsibility for other people's emotions and actions ... .how about trying to get the most outof your time in this NC period ?
Your codependency was learned, and can be unlearned.

[Panda39]

Hi Mariez,

I also wanted to add to what has already been said and point out the Drama Triangle going on, because your mother has invited her friend into what is really an issue between herself and you.

More on the Karpman Triangle... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0

So you are on the triangle with your mom and her friend.  Here are a couple of ways you all are on the triangle depending on your perspective.

Your mom's perspective, distorted... .but her perspective (she has convinced her friend to see this view too)... .

Your mom is the "victim" (tells her friend what a horrible daughter you are and that you won't speak to her), you are the "persecutor" (because you won't talk to her) and her friend is the "rescuer" she is going to come in there and fix your relationship with your mom 

Your perspective... .

Your mom is the "persecutor" (silent treatment), you are the "victim" (because of the silent treatment), and her friend although she sees herself as "rescuer" is really also a "persecutor" (blaming you for the situation).

So what everyone said about asking the friend to butt out (in less blunt more polite terms  ) is you dismantling the triangle.

I also agree with everyone in terms of the silent treatment.  Your mom initiated it and it is up to her to end it, not you.  The ball is in her court.  If I were you I would just live my life in the mean time.

Panda39

[Mariez]

You were probably groomed to take on too much responsibility for other people's emotions and actions ... .how about trying to get the most outof your time in this NC period ?
Your codependency was learned, and can be unlearned.

I am absolutely prone to codependency.  It has gotten better with age and self confidence.  But, I still catch myself doing it! 

[Harri]

Hi Mariez

This caught my eye:

The weird thing is - growing up, she made a big deal about never cutting people off or having your last words be angry, because you never know if something could happen to that person.  She stressed this so much in my childhood to the point that it is a huge worry of mine in adulthood.  And ironically, she does it to everyone.

From this it sounds like your mom greatest fear is to be cut off, so when she is hurt, she wants to lash out and will think of the worst thing that could happen and goes with that.  Now, I know that on the surface knowing this about her does not make this hurt less, but (!) think about it.  She is lashing out by doing what *she* thinks is the most hurtful. So that, to me anyway, really proves this has nothing at all to do with you.  She is hurt (for whatever reason that only peripherally involves you), she lashes out with what would hurt her the most. 

Does that help to depersonalize this behavior?  This has very little if anything to do with you.

I am not saying this is why everyone who uses silent treatment has the same reason for it, but with your words that I quoted above it seems likely.

It is a very child like way to express anger and hurt. 

[Mariez]

Thank you, Harri.  Yes, that does make sense.  Childlike is a very good way to put it.  I do logically know that it's not personal... .it's just hard to not feel like it is.  Interesting take... .I always thought it was weird that she went against everything she always said by employing the silent treatment.  She definitely is trying to be hurtful and the silent treatment makes more sense to me now.

And everyone is right about this Karpan triangle.  I should have never sent my mom's friend anything more than a one line response about it.  Apparently, I caused a huge fight between the two of them, because I sent her friend a screenshot of all of the texts that I have sent my mom that have gone unanswered when she was following up with me after my text about the dog.  I don't know why I felt the need to prove to her that my mom is ignoring me. I am just so sick of constantly being portrayed as a terrible/ungrateful daughter.

Well, her friend was very upset about this, because she said that my mom has been lying to her for so long about my efforts to reach out.  Apparently they got into a big fight about it. I am now mad at myself for allowing to be sucked into another one of her dramas. Lessons learned.

[Fie]

Apparently, I caused a huge fight between the two of them

Hmm. Did you do that ?

Or was it your mother, maybe ?