What was the deal breaker for your ex?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Yes, I said that.

What was the deal breaker for your ex?



pwBPD are logical, sane individuals and in our struggles with them they told us or signaled what the problem they had with the relationship was.

1. What was it? What fundamentally was wrong? (what they would be saying to us if speaking now)

2. What part of that was real? What part was delusion? (your assessment)

3. Did you try to fix it? Why couldn't it be resolved?  (your experience)

4. What can be learned from this for future relationships? (please don't say avoid mental illness - reach!)

Dig deep.

[Skip]

Yes, I said that.

What was the deal breaker for your ex?



pwBPD are logical, sane individuals and in our struggles with them they told us or signaled what the problem they had with the relationship was.

1. What was it? What fundamentally was wrong? (what they would be saying to us if speaking now)

2. What part of that was real? What part was delusion? (your assessment)

3. Did you try to fix it? Why couldn't it be resolved?  (your experience)

4. What can be learned from this for future relationships? (please don't say avoid mental illness - reach!)

Dig deep.

[Sunfl0wer]

1. What was it? What fundamentally was wrong? (what they would be saying to us if speaking now)

He would tell you I was crazy and hated his daughter and was being mean to her.
(He would not speak in terms of fundamentally or “the relationship” and how we had competing needs.  He was too self centered to think in those terms.  He thought I was a villain by the end.  He would blame shift completely.)

2. What part of that was real? What part was delusion? (your assessment)

I was almost “crazy.” Lol! To clarify, as defined by my current trauma therapist, I was actually never out of touch with reality.  However, I did discover since then that I have severe dissociation. (OSDD) I am sure that my variable emotional affect, switching, spacing out, made him think he was going crazy maybe.  To be a part of my emotional experiences must have been bizarre for him.

To be fair, my disorder was also an asset to him as I have aspects of me that are very very helpful and helped me to endure a greater level of distress and remain calm.  (Yes, while unintentionally also reinforcing an emotional abuse cycle) I genuinely was able to put aside and forget resentments and such and focus on behaving pragmatically... .often.  My own disorder actually gave him an edge on purpose.  Most of my self was actually accommodating him to an extreme to make things work... .and that overcompensation behavior... .is my own mental illness/codependence or whatever you want to call it. (It was hard to not see our conflict as a competition and not get sucked into it at times.)

I loved his daughter like my own.  This belief he had was most painful and damaged my relationship with her.  I expected to have her in my life forever, not for a handful of years.  I am still very sad over this.

I was genuinely making excellent decisions with everyones best interests at heart, including his daughter.  His paranoia about my feelings towards her was very out of touch with my own.

3. Did you try to fix it? Why couldn't it be resolved?  (your experience)

Did I try to take his feedback and fix being “crazy?”  And fix not liking his daughter?

Well, I loved his daughter.  Our way of doing that was opposite.  I didn't try to change his perception too much other than continuing to be mindful of behaving fairly in my attitudes and behaviors towards her.  I did watch myself more in dealing with the kids.  It didn't matter at all as his paranoia escalated without my help.

Fixing my emotional issues? Well, I thought they were all a result of him, , and that is partly true as my issues began getting triggered and I declined and decompensated.   Yet, they are still MY issues... .yea.

I did do MC but thought we were there to fix him and get him to quit being avoidant and have accountability for me to remain calm always even in face of his rages.

I was very invested in the MC attempts we made.

He used it to form an alliance with T and paint me black.

4. What can be learned from this for future relationships? (please don't say avoid mental illness - reach!)

The relationship decompensated me to the point where I have been forced to unearth and face my own demons.  I learned I need to spend more time learning about myself and loving myself before I can be in a committed relationship again.

In the future, instead of looking at him and flags and making sense of him... . I feel it more useful to keep my eye on me, my values, ensuring they are not shifting or flexing beyond my consciousness.  Also I will pay greater attention to how “we work” together or how we resolve conflicts if it is done loving direct, or avoidant, or in provocative ways that cause a chasm.  :)o we actually resolve things lovingly after conflict and does my partner appear to have a secure attachment style?

[Seenowayout]

I lied to her. After thousands of arguments about me supposedly lying to her and hiding from her when I wasn’t actually — I finally did.  I actually became her worse nightmare

She ran away from me so many times for ridiculous things. She made me feel so bad about myself for things I never did. My brain said I had to leave her but my heart couldn’t. So I started a correspondence with a female friend.

It was only friendship and the friend knew I loved my xBPD gf and actually defended her.  But I lied about where I was with my X BPD gf because I wasn’t allowed to have female friends. I WAS WRONG. No doubt

And one night she was raging at me over something she had no idea what she was talking about. And she was texting an ex to come take her away. And I gave her my phone so she could see the conversations with my friend

And that was it. After spit in the fac and blow to the head and breakage of energy light bulb and dish in my house — she disappeared forever she

It’s been a year and I have my head and heart back. But I’m still like what the heck was that?

[JNChell]

I gave up on life during our relationship. She was angry over it. Very angry. I understand. The thing is, she kept coming back. The thing is, I allowed her to. It kept getting worse. Perhaps I was finally weak in her eyes and she decided to leave me be. I’ll never know. She can’t tell the truth. If she does, the only frame of reference is against a stack of lies.

What is described above, but more so, I called her out. Calling her out made sure she’d never try a recycle. That wasn’t the intention, it was heat of the moment babble.

She’s not diagnosable, but the traits are there.

Part of me wishes I had this site a while ago to try to learn tools. But, like I said in another post, I’d just end up exhausted.

Anyway, she was p*ssed about my meltdowns. Never showed any other emotion.

[Mutt]

1. What was it? What fundamentally was wrong? (what they would be saying to us if speaking now)

She said that I was a good provider and a good dad I think that she would say that I had dependency / control issues and that I was invalidating. Control in the sense that trying to care take for your sense of self or for validation is selfish and I can see how that would be controlling. Invalidating in the sense that's the environment that I grew up and I'm a logical thinker that can feel very invalidating to someone that is an emotional thinker.
 

2. What part of that was real? What part was delusion? (your assessment)

I think that I said in the first one was real what exaggerated was control issues because she lacks boundaries and doesn't respect boundaries so when implemented boundaries ( floating ones ) she'd say that I was control, that's on her side of the court not mine.
 

3. Did you try to fix it? Why couldn't it be resolved?  (your experience)

I didn't realize that I had these issues until I became a member here they weren't think that I tried to fix in the r/s because I was functioning on a more emotional level, fighting with her all of the time trying to win every argument I was too busy with self destructive r/s behaviours.
 

4. What can be learned from this for future relationships? (please don't say avoid mental illness - reach!)

Taking care of myself comes first instead trying to be caretaker to others and then I'm left feeling emotionally and spiritually depleted I don't miss feeling that way  Spend time with family and friends and not be dependent solely on one person, boundaries is another big one which I still work on today.

[I_Am_The_Fire]

pwBPD are logical, sane individuals

Are you sure about this? My uBPD\NPD ex seems pretty illogical and insane a lot of the time.

What fundamentally was wrong? (what they would be saying to us if speaking now)

If you asked him, even now he would probably say that I'm the one who is broken and damaged. That I'm the one to blame for the marriage failing, not him because I didn't communicate with him.

What part of that was real? What part was delusion? (your assessment)

That last part is true. What I think was fundamentally wrong was that I didn't know I had PTSD from prior abusive relationships. I was emotionally shutdown. I was just trying to survive life. I didn't know how to communicate what I was thinking and feeling out of fear of being ridiculed for it. The times I had tried, it didn't go well and I would get frustrated and shutdown again.

It wasn't completely my fault, though. I felt he was very condescending to me which made it difficult for me to open up to him. I felt he lacked compassion when I was sick ("oh great! you're sick again?" but I wasn't sick all that often. I was usually fairly healthy. I felt he was very passive-aggressive, manipulative, and controlling. I felt very much isolated from my friends and family. I felt he used guilt trips a lot. I felt humiliated by his "jokes" about me in public and he wouldn't stop when I asked him to stop because I felt humiliated. My list goes on.

Did you try to fix it? Why couldn't it be resolved?  (your experience)

I tried going to different marriage counselors with him. It didn't help. His abusive behavior only got worse. I think he has unresolved abandonment issues (no surprise there) and refused to even try to look at his part in the failure of the marriage. He placed the blame solely on me. By this time, I was completely done. I had zero feelings for him and just wanted out. I was exhausted and done.

What can be learned from this for future relationships? (please don't say avoid mental illness - reach!)

I learned to trust my gut instincts about people. I learned to try to communicate better, speak up when I feel angry/sad/etc and be receptive to constructive criticism (for lack of a better phrase). I also learned that I matter too. That my feelings and needs and wants matter. I learned to take care of myself so that I can be a better partner. I learned to listen to my partner's feelings and validate their feelings. It doesn't take away from me even if we disagree. That it's okay to disagree and move on.

[Struggler123]

1. What was it? What fundamentally was wrong? (what they would be saying to us if speaking now)

When it was good it was going great and when it was bad, it just didn’t make any sense. We broke up a lot of times because she felt that I deserved better or as she would say. I never let it get to me, and was always coolheaded. I gave her the benefit of the doubt, I never really made her feel that I wanted to control her, because I would always try to put her first. She was very persistent on the marriage thing, and she would look for anyway to have that. She would threaten to be with someone else and how if I lose her I will regret it. She said it so many times, I kind of became immune to it and I suppose that was my problem too. But I told her that I needed time and I don’t think this should be rushed, and I want her to get to know me as well. I think that long distance is great, but when you see someone for longer than a month, thats when you learn more about them.

2. What part of that was real? What part was delusion? (your assessment)
The part that was real was that she would be honest without realizing it. She would tell me the feelings of abandoment, and being alone and how no one understands it. I always told her that these feelings can’t be removed by a person but only by herself only when she identifies the things that make her feel this way. The part that was delusion was that, she thought that I could make all of this go away, for a temporary time sure. But, when things wouldn’t go her way, for example everytime the marriage persistence conversation would come up, she would be very upset and I don’t blame her, but I feel like one should get married for the right reasons not to fill a gap of emptyness. She would get mad over little things, but I always thought it was just a few triggers. The thing was I was able to identify her triggers, and thats why I was able to make a difference hypothetically speaking.

3. Did you try to fix it? Why couldn't it be resolved?  (your experience)
I think that when we say fix, its more identifiable with things and not people. Did I try to help her get better, sure. I would stay up until she fell asleep. I would pick up her phone at any time of the day, despite how I was feeling. I supported her in all her decisions. I mean how many people do you know that would tell the person that they care about like if you find someone better than me and you really want to get married. I won’t stop you. I would say that everytime, because I wanted her happiness, I just didn’t realize that caring so much was actually wrong because she interpreted as, “I didn’t care.” The reason I speak these things is not that I am bitter because I’m not, but because when you look at things from a clearer angle you understand that, you can’t fix thinking. You can help someone get better if they are willing to work on it, and she would just say that she tried getting help and it never worked out for her. I remember something about her psychiatrist and I don’t know what happened but she stopped seeing him and when she tried to contact him again, he said he would refer her to someone else.

4. What can be learned from this for future relationships? (please don't say avoid mental illness - reach!)

In the future, I think that when someone tells you theres things that they can’t control, work on them but not the cost of losing yourself. Don’t expect that you can magically make someone better. If they are willing to work to be a better person, take their hand and take baby steps. If they don’t want to change these things, accept it and see how you are in terms of your emotional intelligence. I believe in the idea that everyone in our life serves a purpose. This served a purpose too, It showed me that I can’t save everyone. I can try to make their life better, but not at the expense of my boundaries. If you have a different set of boundaries, theres no reason to feel bad for it. It also taught me that, when she reaches out to me, and I don’t pick up. It shows me that, I did the best I could and this is whats best for the both of us. I think that in the future relationships, I would definitely look for someone to go at the same pace as me, because balance is essential and I can talk about it over and over again, but at the end of the day, it could have been worse. Sometimes we have to be grateful, for all the memories and thats a lesson itself.


Thank you for this brilliant idea.

[Skip]

In the end, wouldn't she simply say that the deal-breaker was your lack of commitment?

Then there came the turmoil, the breaking up and then getting back together. I promised myself that if she broke up with me again that it was it. So she did it, one more time, and considering it was long distance at the time, I got tired and frustrated so I let it go.

What did you fight about that lead to the two months of NC? Is that when she connected with the other guy?

[Struggler123]

In the end, wouldn't she simply say that the deal-breaker was your lack of commitment?

What did you fight about that lead to the two months of NC? Is that when she connected with the other guy?

She would say that the deal breaker was the lack of commitment as commitment to her meant, putting a ring on it, something symbolic. I’m not saying, that I was right or she was right, but if you give someone your 100% and they break up with you everytime in some cases block you on more than one occassion. We didn’t really fight at least on my end, but she was going on a trip for 3 days. This was a time when, I was going to introduce her to my family. I told her that, we should take it one step at a time and then we can see where it goes from there. She was very impatient, and wanted everything to happen virtually and I was like whenever we are in the same place we can set up a meeting. Anyways, after this conversation the next day, she texts me saying I deserve better and that we shouldnt be together anymore and that she needs to let go and I should take care of myself. When she came back from the trip, I went no contact for a month, and then we contacted again when she came to visit me. As for the new guy, I’m not sure to be honest, she says she met him twice and that she only said yes after I told her that if he makes you happy then go for it because I dont want to hold you back, as at the end of the day you will blame me for letting you miss an opportunity to your happiness. I felt like it was the right thing to do. After which, she said yes and now she still continues to be contact like 1-2 calls per week. Sometimes I pick up, sometimes I don’t. I havent spoken to her in the last week or so though. I guess you could say that I started holding expectations from her and maybe that was part of the problem.

[gilac]

The deal breaker for my ex was that I was too tired to have sex on the New Years eve. Even I didn't noticed that I fell asleep and I did want some cuddle.
Now I know that this came like a final straw for her because over time, I didn't bother anymore about her complains how this or that hurts every single day. At the beginning I was searching for the spot that hurts, trying to figure out, pursuing her to go to a doctor... .As time went by, how could I be intimidated by another "it hurts me over here! hey?" or "I feel depressed again" as soon as we meet.

Than the devaluation phase started and she started to repeat "you aren't happy because I finally found my happiness", "you don't like my change", "I will change and you won't like what you will see", "you think I'm perfect but I'm not", "you are dependent and obsessed about me"... .
Later I learned that all of this was her projection of her dissapointed feelings towards her saviour.

At the end when I asked her, ok, what is the reason? She never actually answered or pointed out the actual problem, she would go into this endless talk and projecting. Then I told her "Ok, the only way I can understand this break up is that you found someone else and became bored with me". That was the level of my confusion at that time.

[Skip]

  gilac

What happened on News Years was just an incident. If you talked to her today, she would know why she left... .you know her well... .what would it be?

I didn't bother anymore about her complains how this or that hurts every single day.

What was the reoccurring fight in the relationship?

[Jeffree]

1. What was it? What fundamentally was wrong? (what they would be saying to us if speaking now)


It depends on the day, but more than likely she would point to our differing parenting styles as the problem. She was always accusing me of undermining her parenting among many, many other unsavory things.


2. What part of that was real? What part was delusion? (your assessment)


I really don't know. We did seem to be on the same page as far as the basics were concerned, but since I wasn't a big yeller, hitter and punisher of the kids, she felt as though I was letting them get away with murder when they did something we didn't approve of. Also, I wouldn't stand for any form of physical abuse toward the kids, and I wasn't thrilled with the constant yelling and berating of them either. It was a mess.

She came from the belief that kids are to be seen not heard. I couldn't disagree more with that approach. Thus, I believe she thought my gentle communicative approach would cause them to be raised weak and spoiled.

3. Did you try to fix it? Why couldn't it be resolved?  (your experience)


I tried to get closer to the same page as she with parenting, but when I would play bad cop she'd then go good cop and suspend a punishment I handed down, thereby undermining my parenting (but I could care less about that).

Ultimately, this couldn't be resolved because I wasn't willing to abuse the kids, nor was I willing to stand idly by and let her abuse them. I held their well being in higher regard than my own well being and the well being of my marriage, so I never agreed to be on the same page with her with the parenting.

Her approach to parenting was so irresponsible and ineffective that I couldn't go there with her.

4. What can be learned from this for future relationships? (please don't say avoid mental illness - reach!)


Values are an extremely important component of a person's makeup and how they impact the relationship. Opposites might attract, but depending on how opposite the two people are, the gap might be too wide to bridge long term.

Going forward I will be looking for someone who shares many more of my values than did my ex.

*Not surprisingly the kids live with me after she abandoned all of us.
 
J

[Starfire]

1. What was it? What fundamentally was wrong? (what they would be saying to us if speaking now)

If I’m understanding the original post correctly, in this exercise, we are to bestow upon the pwBPD the ability to be rational.  If that’s the case, and my ex could rationally consider root cause, he would say that I am too private, cold, and dispassionate.  The closest he could come to articulating that during our relationship was to say, “Your love is funny.”

2. What part of that was real? What part was delusion? (your assessment)

All of that is real, to an extent.  I am a private person, and I can be perceived as cold and dispassionate, especially to a person who jumps from one extreme emotion to another easily and quickly.

The delusions were all the assumptions my ex made about me based on his lack of understanding of boundaries and rational behaviors.  For instance, if I didn’t tell him that my desk in an open space environment is between two men, then in his mind I was hiding that I was sleeping with both those men.  Or, if I didn’t yell and stomp when I found out that two people I didn’t even know were having an extra-marital affair, then in his mind I condone extra-marital affairs.  Or, if I got excited about an opportunity at work, then in his mind I was willing to sleep my way up the corporate ladder.

3. Did you try to fix it? Why couldn't it be resolved?  (your experience)

My first attempt was to teach him about the five love languages.  We took the quiz together to learn our love languages, and based on those results, I tried to express my love using behaviors that fit his primary and secondary love languages.  Later, we tried couples therapy plus individual therapy.  There was, of course, a lot of little things that I tried in between.

What I couldn’t do was change the nature I was born with nor change the values that I hold as part of my own personal identity.  A detail like where my desk is situated in my office is never going to occur to me to communicate unless it is in the context of some specific conversation.  I’m just never going to randomly think, “Oh, I need to make sure my boyfriend knows that two men sit next to me at the office.”  Nor am I ever going to be comfortable telling someone I’ve only known for a few weeks about traumatic events in my childhood.  Nor am I going to sacrifice my career for someone just because he is intimidated by it.

4. What can be learned from this for future relationships? (please don't say avoid mental illness - reach!)

I definitely have room to grow when it comes to being open about myself.  I have to work towards being less guarded.  I also have a tendency to appear self-absorbed, another area for growth.  I can also communicate my feelings more.  There have been times when people (not just my ex) have thought I was being cold about a situation when in reality it was something I felt quite strongly about.  I just didn’t share those feelings.

[Insom]

As someone who experienced abuse in relationship with my BPD-ex, I'm not sure about this thread.

FWIW, while I left the relationship before things got really bad it's my belief, if I'd stuck around, I'd have eventually ended up fully degraded in my ex's eyes, and that would have been the deal breaker for him.

While he seemed to want to control me, I don't think that's what he really wanted.  And I was unable to navigate that space between defending my boundaries and maintaining my independence/attractiveness while having him also feel accepted which is probably what he craved in a partner.  A desirable person who also made him feel secure.  I did not make him feel secure.  And if I'd been able to make him feel secure, he'd have no longer found me desirable.

[zachira]

The deal breakers on many of my past relationships was that I was just too selfish and immature. I certainly was lucky to have some really nice boyfriends that I was incapable of appreciating. My BPD mother was an extremely selfish spouse. She expected to be treated like a Queen even though she acted very badly with constant meltdowns with no apparent triggers. Now I try to take more responsibility in relationships: I pick the person in the first place, so I cannot claim that I am a victim, if I allow them to continue to treat me badly. Healthy people are not going to want me, if I don't treat them right.

[Skip]

I'm not sure about this thread.

It's an exercise in empathy (not compassion, approval, or agreement).

[Starfire]

While he seemed to want to control me, I don't think that's what he really wanted.  And I was unable to navigate that space between defending my boundaries and maintaining my independence/attractiveness while having him also feel accepted which is probably what he craved in a partner.  A desirable person who also made him feel secure.  I did not make him feel secure.  And if I'd been able to make him feel secure, he'd have no longer found me desirable.

This resonates with me.  It's something I have often tried to reconcile about my ex, unsuccessfully.  All the traits that he claimed were desirable to him are all the same traits that he claimed were the source of his insecurity. 

[Husband321]

1. What was it? What fundamentally was wrong? (what they would be saying to us if speaking now)

She would say since she "messed up" at the beginning of our relationship with infidelity with her ex husband, I would never trust her. She would also say she cant "work on herself" because she was giving 100 percent to the marriage.

2. What part of that was real? What part was delusion? (your assessment)

I would say she was partially correct. I did forgive that as we were "just dating" at the time. But, it was all of the behavior once in a committed relationship that lead me to not trust her.  Also, as for "working on herself", this never occurs. She inherited a large sum of money, and as of now she is partying, not working, alcohol, weed,  and now switched to dating women, in which she has chaotic and violent episodes with all of them.

3. Did you try to fix it? Why couldn't it be resolved?  (your experience)

It couldn't be resolved because no matter how much she said she wants a stable, monogamous life, she is driven to cheat. I feel she needs that high.

4. What can be learned from this for future relationships? (please don't say avoid mental illness - reach!)
Before fully committing to someone, watch how they treat you for an entire year. Behavior can be faked for a few months, but within a year you will get a good idea of who someone is.

[Skip]

1. What was it? What fundamentally was wrong? (what they would be saying to us if speaking now)

She would say since she "messed up" at the beginning of our relationship with infidelity with her ex husband, I would never trust her. She would also say she cant "work on herself" because she was giving 100 percent to the marriage.

This is what she would say is why she was unhappy with the relationship? This sounds like what bothered you.   

[Husband321]

This is what she would say is why she was unhappy with the relationship? This sounds like what bothered you.   

She did say that to me... But I feel she did not like to feel "constricted" in a marriage.

She didn't like if I would ask when she would be home. She did not like it if I would look at her phone or ask why she has a secret passcode. She did not like it that she could not just take off anytime and travel with a friend, or plan her holidays how she liked. I would say this became worse once she inherited a lot of money.

So at times she loved to be married and didn't want to be alone, but she also wanted to do her own thing.

So I was held to one standard, and I feel she did not want to be held to the same standard.

[Turkish]

1. What was it? What fundamentally was wrong? (what they would be saying to us if speaking now)

That I abandoned her.  Emotionally, this was true.  Over a year before the implosion,  I felt "I can't imagine retiring into old age with her... ." I can't remember if this was before or after D6's birth which was planned against my better judgement.  Kids fix nothing,  quite the opposite.  

2. What part of that was real? What part was delusion? (your assessment)

While in her affair we were on the floor in the living room and talking. She cried,  "you abandoned me! It felt just like my father!"  

I'll be honest and say that I totally got everything in that moment.  I believed her.  I'm almost 11 years older than she is.  One of my friends who only saw us every few months told me later that he observed the father-daughter dynamic between us  

We never really fought much.  Sometimes I'd say,  "I'm not your father!" To which she'd reply,  "I know you're not my father!" Sure felt like it at times when she'd go after me for not doing x y or z.

I usually retreated into my childhood coping mechanisms growing up with a mother with BPD: flee, shut down to avoid conflict. It worked for me then: hours hiking through the forest sometimes with my .22 rifle to go plinking, on my dirt bike,  or to the neighbor's house (actually two neighbors whose kids i was friends with) which were safe for me.  That worked as a kid,  not in an adult relationship!

So I can't judge how much of our dynamic was delusional.  It was certainly unhealthy.  We still have a little of that,  like me leading what's best for the kids regarding education,  to deal with her anxiety,  but it's working,  not jerking the kids around to different schools or trying to have them skip grades.  

Like Muttley said about his ex wife,  mine never faulted me about being a good provider, something my ex never faulted her father for.  Her next husband utterly failed not only being a provider,  but even doing half.  My ex became his provider when they married.  That she couldn't see this,  so focused on his attention and hot sex in the beginning was her delusion. I told her his it would turn out; she didn't believe me.  :)V between them.  Him getting arrested after she called the cops on him and his brother. Then later she did and asked to come back... .maybe another delusion? Part of me wanted to explore that,  "solving the mystery" but I said "no" kindly.  That ended that.  

3. Did you try to fix it? Why couldn't it be resolved?  (your experience)

I was willing to forgive her dalliance with her boy toy,  but it wasn't to be.  She was sure of her new path.  She told my once,  when her future husband called her when we and the kids were sitting down to dinner, "I'm sick!" A Waifish apology, but self-aware. There was no going back, and I also knew she felt shame cheating as her father was a serial cheater on her mom.  One brief hopeful weekend from my view was when she said,  "I know I became just like my father (cheater) and I'm sorry." It was a single blade of green grass on a dead planet  

4. What can be learned from this for future relationships? (please don't say avoid mental illness - reach!)

Dig deep.

Don't be dumb enough to try and start a family with someone who tells you from the beginning,  "I hate marriage!" (Comittment)

My buddy at work was married to a BPD-like person 20 years ago. He married and had a kid at 50 with a fine person now.  I can't see starting over.  I won't say,  "I see pwBPD everywhere!" But I can't help but think that I don't trust anyone.  It sucks. All I can say is that I like to think I won't fall for the easy idealization again,  and easy is a   healthy relationships take work and should progress slowly and organically: in steps.

[babyducks]

1. What was it? What fundamentally was wrong? (what they would be saying to us if speaking now)

It's pretty hard to say what "The Problem" was because it was fluid.   It changed a lot.  sometimes it felt like it changed daily.   what I think all the smaller individual problems had in common was she felt as if I wasn't giving her enough attention.    that I didn't pay enough attention to her needs.    I often call the relationship a needs entitlement war now.

2. What part of that was real? What part was delusion? (your assessment)

Oddly enough there was/is a part of that which was real.   She was always incredibly sensitive to the smallest change in mood or attitude of the people around her.  Most times there was a grain of truth in what she said or thought but often that grain got magnified by such a degree as to be unrecognizable.   partially that's what made the relationship difficult.   It always started out as somewhat true and accurate and quickly morphed into distorted and unreal.

3. Did you try to fix it? Why couldn't it be resolved?  (your experience)

boy did I try to fix it.   at first I tried to fix it in ways that were not probably the healthiest.  I poured attention on her like mad but that wasn't sustainable.   she however thought that was great.   I struggled with depression and the exhaustion that comes with that.   She struggled with mania and the need/desire be on the go all the time.   I think it couldn't be resolved because she couldn't deal with my lower and flatter energy levels and I couldn't deal with the higher and tumultuous energy that she had.

4. What can be learned from this for future relationships? (please don't say avoid mental illness - reach!)

   Lots.   Lots can be learned.   I think for me the first thing is to not be something I am not.  to not give myself away.  Yeah I can work to be more attentive, more communicative, more forthcoming but within reason.   To not twist myself into a pretzel trying to be something I am not.  As one example;  I am probably always going to require a little more than the average amount of sleep.   It's perfectly okay to take a nap as long as there is balance between napping and social activities.   

I can also say I walked away from this relationship with a much better stronger ability to recognize and communicate emotions.   both mine and some one elses.

[Skip]

Really good stuff here. It's a good exercise to see the other persons side. It helps us see ourselves better.

[Jeffree]

I tried to use the most reality-based deal breaker that I could think of.

However, there's a list of probably at least another 20 my ex could rattle off the top of her head. They eventually became something of a mantra for her.

When pressed by me to take responsibility for something heinous she did, she'd deflect it and then throw any number of her grievances at me as for the justification of her actions.

I'm not sure I am really seeing her side.

J

[Skip]

However, there's a list of probably at least another 20 my ex could rattle off the top of her head. They eventually became something of a mantra for her.

There always is... .but a good therapist will usually find the root... .we actually have better data than the therapist because we have more face-time. If you think about it, you will likely find it... .it may take time.

Parenting styles is a big one... .the question is was it a big one for her?

[Jeffree]

As best as I could tell it was a biggie.

J

[MeandThee29]

Mine had a long list of my faults and failings that were used against me. Prior to separation, he would pull them out and say that we were headed for divorce if I didn't shape up. After separation, continued to put them out and cite them as what I had to work on for reconciliation. Note how one-sided that is.

I was so beaten down that I believed it. It was months into separation before I understood that stuffing it and being a top-notch spouse and parent in the face of what we were dealing with was impossible and wasn't going to achieve anything. There had to be boundaries and mutual change.

At this point I really don't know what was real and what wasn't. I probably never will. There is nothing I could have done in the long-run.

I'm at the stage of life where starting over in a relationship isn't something I want at all. Several of my friends have lost their husbands in the last 2-3 years, and only one has remarried. Most are fine remaining single. I do have a lot of friends and am making a point of getting out more. It makes a difference.

[Jeffree]

It was months into separation before I understood that stuffing it and being a top-notch spouse and parent in the face of what we were dealing with was impossible and wasn't going to achieve anything.

That's an important moment, devastating yet freeing all at the same time, eh?

When I got to that point everything she said sounded hollow to me and I could just shrug it off.

Maybe instead of seeing it as starting over (because who in their right mind would want to do the pwBPD dance again?) see it as starting for the first time. That was practice and the next time will be for keeps?

J

[once removed]

1. What was it? What fundamentally was wrong? (what they would be saying to us if speaking now)

i think there were three that all revolved around perhaps overall relationship security, or maybe just sexual personal and interpersonal boundaries. the three were pornography, mismatched sex drive, and friends of the opposite sex.

each is a long story and might do better in separate posts, so im gonna keep it to the first one in this exercise: pornography. not pornography in the classical or obvious sense, in that there was no sex or nudity, but in a relationship sense where i have since come to believe all of that is really an aside; a gal once told me she gave up romance novels because she determined it was her form of pornography. i think in the context of a relationship, "pornography" can take many forms that can be destructive to a relationship.

i had my form. looking back, i dont think she had hers.

she would say that my viewing it meant that she wasnt enough. she would say she went to great lengths to be "enough". when she saw it, she felt she was in a competition. ultimately, she would say that i was choosing it over her.

2. What part of that was real? What part was delusion? (your assessment)

there was nothing "unreal" or delusional about her objections to her partner viewing pornography or her perspective. i had my disagreements with her perspective. frankly, youve heard them all before, the typical male arguments.

on her end, there were some inconsistencies and hypocrisies, and so as with many things, i tended to dismiss her feelings and perspective whichever way they went.

3. Did you try to fix it? Why couldn't it be resolved?  (your experience)

we did try to fix it. i was open and honest with her from the beginning, and she insisted she was "totally cool with it". im not naive. i understand that minds (especially on a subject like this, and in the beginning stages of a relationship) change. i tried to be careful and conscientious but when she eventually and inevitably saw it it really hurt her. she wanted me to agree never to look again. i wouldnt, but i told her i wouldnt look "for now" and for a while, i kept to it. that wasnt satisfying, and she would continuously, fearfully bring it up several times, and snoop.

now, my timeline gets really hazy here. i know things blew up when she snooped and caught me, on valentines day morning. she lost it. screaming at the top of her lungs. screaming that i was a _____ing cheater. the neighbors even came outside. it was really ugly. happy valentines day.

some time after that (i think), i proposed that she be present, that we try it together. she really liked that idea at the time. lets just say that very quickly, this turned into a completely one sided arrangement on her end. i was keeping my end of the bargain, she was not, and yet she was still snooping and interrogating me. i stopped keeping my end of the bargain, she caught me again (snooped), and i stone faced lied and she knew it. after further future interrogations, i told her i was done with the arrangement, and going to do what i was going to do. she was very upset to say the least, and told me i was choosing it over her. i told her i understood if this was a deal breaker. she threatened a few times to end it, but couldnt follow through.

later, closer to the end, she would tell me she never got over resenting me for this.

why could it not be resolved? we had competing views, we both had, i think, conflicted views individually, and we both had double standards.

my position was never that i thought pornography in any form was a good thing for relationships. while i did rationalize and justify, as i would tell her, it was less about pornography, and more about maintaining my independence. we were 21-24 years old. i had different standards around disclosure, transparency, and commitment, when it came to a girlfriend vs a wife. i would tell her i was open to discussing it and dropping it in marriage (part of the obvious problem is that we actively spoke of marriage). as far as i was concerned (at the time), it was really none of her business, what she didnt know wouldnt hurt her (but she did know), and that she should stop invading my privacy and snooping. my attitude was also that even if i were to completely stop, she would continue to snoop and interrogate me and not only was i opposed to transparency to satiate her, i didnt (and dont) think it would have helped.

i had had other girlfriends come into my life and push me to change or remove something (she did this with more than pornography) and the lesson i had taken was "the hell with that". i didnt care what the "that" was, big or small. i went into things very determined to not compromise my independence. my attitude was "if this is a significant problem, theres the door, and ill understand". i wonder how much that would have been my attitude if i thought she had the strength to leave.

4. What can be learned from this for future relationships? (please don't say avoid mental illness - reach!)

i think there was some validity to my perspective above. im not 21 or 24 anymore, the rules of the dating world have changed, and my views are evolving. most women i have spoken to have the same view as my ex. i have some cognitive dissonance that i need to solve. i think that my attitude about maintaining my independence was problematic in that in some ways it could be viewed as too rigid, and in other ways, if i have a partner pressing me too hard beyond my comfort zone, we are a bad fit.

i still believe you dont enter into a relationship with someone and start trying to change things about them or things they do that you dont like (though we all, in our various ways, inevitably do), or let someone do that to us, and i dont think its healthy if someone does that for me. i prefer, where/if possible, to get on the same page, and compromise. if there are strong, fundamental differences in values (or if each party isnt clear on their own and living them), it is going to place an anchor on a relationship that breeds resentment, conflict, and may eventually kill it.

lies and secrecy are bad for relationships, whatever your level of commitment. agreeing to things we know we arent comfortable with can get messy. its not bad to give things a try and realize we arent comfortable, though we should be upfront about "ill give this a try, no promises". avoid sort of halfway attempts at appeasement.

there are more. im still learning lessons from this, and my views are still evolving.

[purekalm]

1. What was it? What fundamentally was wrong? (what they would be saying to us if speaking now)

(Ex) "It's your family. I know we got issues but I think we could've have dealt with them if it wasn't for your d*** family."

2. What part of that was real? What part was delusion? (your assessment)

My family is VERY dysfunctional and he went through a lot because of them and they because of him. The delusion is he used it as an excuse to mask the issues we had. There were a lot of things between us regardless of anything family related.

3. Did you try to fix it? Why couldn't it be resolved?  (your experience)

Yes, a million times yes. No matter how bad he treated me I wanted to work it out. Divorce wasn't something I wanted. I loved him with everything I had. I talked, forgave, listened, was there for him in every way I can think of, went to individual counseling, tried one session of marriage counseling but he didn't want to anymore and the one we went to was ill equipped to begin with, spent a whole lot of time in prayer and reached out here though I was terrified to do so.

Because of his horrible money management we had to live with my parents. I wanted to move out and told him specifically how I would do that. He had to at least respect me and our son as people and not burdens/annoyances, he treated me and our son awful. Be trustworthy since he lied so often to my face I stopped trusting anything he said which caused more problems the rare times he told the truth. It was always suspect. Manage his money better or at least let me help since I was good with it. I didn't even ask for him to have these things nailed down, just to start working on them to show me he actually cared.

He refused to do any of it and just got worse until eventually he abandoned us and betrayed me by cheating on me. We were married for seven years and it's been almost two years now since he left.

4. What can be learned from this for future relationships? (please don't say avoid mental illness - reach!)

Dig deep.

I learned a lot, about myself mostly. I originally came to this site while trying to figure out why he acted the way he did and how I could better respond to him, possibly help him since he was doing nothing of the sort himself. Growing up as the fixer of a dysfunctional family meant I was already used to doing everything and receiving next to nothing to nothing in return. What I found instead were a ton of issues I hadn't been able to look at since I was so focused on trying to keep everything going and failing miserably I might add.

The better I got the less he could handle it and so he blamed my family instead of the real issue and left. He didn't want someone to forgive him and willing to work on things, he wanted arguments and discord, which he admitted to. He often said he didn't deserve forgiveness and I would tell him that no one does. Mercy and compassion isn't something anyone is owed, it's given out totally underserved.

In specific regards to a future relationship I know now that I need to check my tendency to want to take care of those that are hurting. Being there for someone is completely different than trying to have a relationship with them. To keep in mind a reasonable list of traits I want and need in a man regarding my own wants and needs so there will be nothng like "I like this but... ." To seriously take into account what others opinions I value think of him so I don't let myself get blinded. I won't tolerate someone who can't respect me and my boundaries whereas before I didn't even really have any because of the enmeshment of my family. I won't get too close too quick and let time show me who he really is in a bunch of different situations. I won't accept another really fast relationship because of this one and make sure there is enough distance between us to still be myself with or without him and be ok with that. I've learned so much it would take a bit to write it all. Most importantly, I have learned that I don't have to save anyone, including a future man. He doesn't have to be perfect by a long shot, but I know more of what to keep my distance on now. It's not all the other person and never was, everyone has problems. Our willingness to look at and deal with our own can alleviate a lot of the pain we experience in the future.