I lost myself, and things went downhill, but now I am hopeful

[WileyCoyote]

 

I've been with my SO - udwBPD for 10 years.  We have been married for 3 of those years.  We have a 2 year old son together.  He is a wonderful child. I am amazed daily.

When I met my SO she was very successful in her career.  Was seemingly very confident, passionate, caring of others.  I also had a good career, but I was in the midst of alcoholism.  She didn't seem to see that red flag... .which in of itself was a red flag.  LOL.  We dated shortly, and I realized if I wanted a real relationship with someone then I needed to get myself right.  I shared this with her and broke of the relationship.  Told her i was going to rehab.  I did go, and I got well.  She was very supportive, and thought I was amazing for making such a big change.  She went all on on her feelings for me and we rekindled our relationship a few months later.

I was of course vulnerable at this stage.  Anyone who has recovered from addiction can tell you, all the older folks will encourage you to spend time by yourself for a year before forming a relationship after getting sober.  I thought this was good advice, but I also thought (in my infinite wisdom ) that since this women had supported me, not abandoned me, etc... .she must truly love me.  I ignored the advice and took my own.

Early on she lost her job in a large swath of layoffs (100s of people).  This was a year into my sobriety and our relationship.  She was looking to move to try and find work.  I asked her to move in with me.  I mean it had been a year right?

We discussed how we should try and keep this love going if she was willing to stay in the area.  It was good.  Move in with me I said.  You can try here, and if not, I will support you while you go to school and find a new career.  She moved in.

 It took her around 6 months, but she decided what she would do at school, and she did it.  Things happened during the school years that gave me pause, but I chalked it up to the pressure of returning to school, changing her life with me.  But I saw her determination and willingness to work for a future together and asked her to marry me a year before she graduated.  And the good times were so good.

She graduated, got a great job and we were married not soon after she graduated.  

She had an episode of dis-regulation and acting out on our honeymoon.  

We decided to try for a child a few months later.   During that same time, she quit her new job.   Not just quit, but something happened at work and she wouldn't tell me what. (she still hasn't) She was asked to meet with HR and her manager.  She didn't go.  Even after I made it clear that she needed to try to keep the job, or our lives would financially change drastically.    Lost the job.

Wouldn't you know it.  Right when I was thinking I needed to talk to her about pausing the attempt at children until we figured things out... .she was pregnant.

I was happy.  Wanted to be happier, but the looming financial situation with a child on the way was stressful.  She remembers her pregnancy as awful, me being awful.  I just wanted to have discussions about our future.  This i when I realized that conversations about things that were "real" and hard were not possible.  I wasn't awful.  But somewhere along the way I lost myself and believed her.  It went down hill from there.   She got worse and worse.  Meaner and meaner, and sometimes violent.  As I struggled to "make her happy".  I took on all the responsibility.  As we all know, this is unsustainable.  

As our child got older I started to worry about how this was going to affect him.  So many threats of leaving... divorce... .taking my child.  None of this was from me.

I finally got to the point where I just had a revelation, and knew I couldn't believe her anymore.  In all other parts of my life, I was liked, respected, and known as a kind and caring person.   To her, I was the opposite of that.

I googled... .why is my wife mad at me all the time?  one day in desperation. That led me here.

I signed up and I guess she had been looking through my email and saw my sign up email.  Looked at this site and freaked the hell out on me.
Saying when I got home one day... ."so you diagnosed me and are telling people bad things about me, that I am crazy"    I was confused.  "who, what?"  finally got out of her what she was talking about.  Told her I was at the end of my tether,  I was just trying to understand her.  I had reached no conclusions, I just wanted to understand some of the things she did.  A google search about angry spouses had led me here and I was just reading.



I told her we needed to go to therapy. Individual therapy. Both of us.  If she didn't want to go I was going to go anyway.  Then down the road a little we could talk about MC together.

I found a great T with extensive experience with BPD.  We have been seeing him for about 4 months.  There has been progress, steps backward, and extinction bursts.  I am also discovering and "remembering" things about myself that I really needed to.  I'm hoping she is too.  He told me he can't determine quite yet if she has BPD or CPTSD.  She has multiple traumas in her life.

The signing up was a year ago under a different name.  I wanted to give it some time and sign up with another email to make sure I could talk safely here. I have been here reading,  and reading books suggested here, and applying tools found here.  It has all been extremely helpful.   So here I am.  

I'm skipping over red flags all along the way that I only see now in retrospect,  But I'll be posting more on here.

I feel hopeful.  
 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[juju2]

Welcome
You found us, you are part of a caring, hopeful, knowledgeable, experienced community.

 am separated for one year from the love of my life, BPD, dx and not treated.  We lived together for ten years.  He told me when we met, that he had BPD, that it got worse w stress.  At the time, I figured, he knows he has it, he is working on it, is all good.

For those ten years, we experienced almost all of the signs and behaviour.  I was and am codependent.

I wish I had found this site ten years ago.  He has 19 years in a 12 step, has a leadership role.

I only last year became a student of what it takes to be in a relationship w a pwBPD.

So, I believe all of the info here, the tools, reading, posting, etc is helping me.  We are seeing eachother once a week for coffee, at a neutral place.  The last two weeks, he came over to our house to have dinner, and also came over 3 days ago... .I am one year in a 12 step, alanon.

There is a ton to learn, and i am gradually doing that.  One thing is, BPD is a serious mental illness.
My pwBPD is disabled because of BPD.

He gets disability income. 

He is high functioning.  With that being said, all of the signs/symptoms came out during our ten yrs... . 

It's strange to me that i didnt look into BPD sooner .  That is on me.  I feel like we wouldn't be separated now, if I knew more about what I could do and be as a partner... .

I can't go back in time.

He and i are seeing if there is something that could be created, a new and different relationship.

With hope, help, and healing,  j

[pearlsw]

Hi WileyCoyote,



Sounds like you've had quite a journey! How fortunate that you remain so positive and hopeful!

May I ask more about what parts of yourself you felt you lost and how you've been recovering them?

with compassion, pearl.

[WileyCoyote]

Pearl, 
The reference to losing myself is about my own well being.  It all became about her.  How she would react.  I gave up my dignity, self worth and boundaries to try and manage her emotions for her.
 Enmeshed codependency galore.   

[Radcliff]

I'm sorry for the difficult place you are in, but am glad you have found us.  This is a good community to learn tools and get support to help make things better.  Congrats on your recovery!  May I ask if you are in a 12 step program?  There are some commonalities with the tools we teach here.  Letting go of things we can't control is a big one.  You mentioned that your wife has been violent.  How long ago was the last incident?  What was the worst incident, and how long ago was it?

WW

[WileyCoyote]

Hi Wentworth,
  Yes I am in AA.  As I work on not trying to manage my wife's emotions it is always good to remind ones self with the serenity prayer.   I am just trying to lead by the best example I can be.

She has thrown things and broken them in temper tantrums.  if she is mad and I try to hold her hand she'll do the classic, don't you dare touch me.
  A couple years ago she threw multiple full water bottles at me because I dropped her off at the wrong spot (extra 50 feet) for her job. and said she hated me.
Most recently she threw a full plastic cup of water at me.  It weighed a couple pounds and sprayed everywhere.  She sees it as "throwing water on me" .  This happened because I took too long running errands that day.  Groceries, went to AA, cleaned out my car.

Not a constant, but enough to be worrying.  

I have discussed this with our T.  We see the same T separately. 

[pearlsw]

Hi WileyCoyote,

I noticed what you said about the water bottle. That sounds pretty awful.

How much of this kind of violence is your young child being exposed to directly or indirectly because of what your partner is doing?

Sorry to hear you are being treated this way!

warmly, pearl.

[WileyCoyote]

Yeah, in the past she had thrown small things and I didn't think much of it if an engagement ring went whizzing past me.  perspective huh.

My son has not witnessed anything except that last incident with the cup.  He was in the other room, but he hears her.

That is my main concern.  He hears how she talks to me.  Sometimes I just have to say "stop it!" to her.  She is just going on and on and it gets meaner and meaner.   I have talked to her about how he is listening to her.  I explain that he will talk to her like that one day if she can't get it under control. 

I've talked to my T about what i would do if it got bad.

I am trying, but realistically if another year passes and things don't get better, I will have to reconsider things for both myself and my son.   

Currently she is not talking to me.  I can guarantee that she thinks I am not talking to her.  But I usually say hello and good morning type things on the first day.  Then if I am ignored I eventually stop trying to interact.  To her this is ME being an ass.  I used to believe that.  But now I know i am not ass, I just have some self respect.     

She has not talked to me for 4 days except to ask for help with our son sparingly.  She usually uses her anger at me as an excuse to go to another room or to bed early and not spend time with me and our son.  I put him to bed every night, play,etc.  Right now I am just enjoying our awesome kid and going on with my day.  I can't let her bring me down.  Our life is good.  She just doesn't see it, and I can't convince her.

[Radcliff]

That's great that you're able to focus your energies on your son and enjoy being a dad.  What did the T say about the water bottle throwing?  That is good that you told the T.

WW

[WileyCoyote]

Hi WW!
  I told him about the throwing of the full glass.  He said, Does stuff like this happen often?

In my STILL denial (we talked about it again in another session and I was more truthful with myself)  I said not often and brought up the water bottle thing.  But the reality is the tantrums happen every couple months and things get broken.  They just don't necessarily come flying at me.

I told him when she threw the glass at me most recently I said to her "That is violence!  why?"
She said "yes it is, why don't you call the police" as she went upstairs. Of course the next day she had twisted it to just throwing some water NEAR me and getting me wet.
He asked about what my plans were and we talked more about my plans in regard to -  The reality of being a man who calls the police.  What that means in our state, etc.  My state is a SOMEONE has to go to jail state if they are called.


He did say at the end of that session that he had not reached a diagnosis with my wife yet (he is both of our therapist), and was not comfortable differentiating between PTSD and BPD yet. I know my wife and I doubt she has told him everything about her past and that is holding him back. But I don't really care about that as long as the treatment model is appropriate for her.

My T is great.  Smart and kind and honest.   I was lucky to find him.  In a few months I am contemplating finding someone else for myself just to prevent any potential conflict of interest.  But for the moment, my wife does not feel uncomfortable with the arrangement and him getting both of our perspectives is giving him good insight into BOTH of us not just my wife.

[RolandOfEld]

Hi WileyCoyote, I'm sorry I didn't find your thread sooner. You've been doing great on the boards. Let me join everyone in congratulating you on your own first thread. It takes a lot of courage and is a huge step in the process of taking back your life.

Your story resonates with me deeply on many levels, but mostly in terms of children (I have a five year old son and a two year old daughter) and the violence. For this first part, I wanted to point you to a recent thread of mine since there is a lot of overlapping experience in terms of pregnancy and the later impact it had on our relationships with our wives.

For the second part, I'll bring up that I have called the police to my house once and reported my wife's actions at the station twice (I find reporting is much better and less scary). The second time was for violence. The other times were for destroying or stealing my personal belongings.

Let me elaborate on why I did this. Like you I had identified to my wife in the past that these behaviors are violent and abusive. She just turned around and accused me of the same. But the police scared her because it was a real life consequence. No hitting or stealing / destroying since and she has made overtures towards treatment. I think the police involvement had a big impact on that.

One way or another, the violence in your home has to stop. Your wife might not present a huge threat to your physical safety, but it is incredibly harmful to your son's development to witness this kind of behavior. There is also the risk it will be directed at him some day.  

But I want to hear you views on this since everyone (and state) is different. What do you think would happen if you involved the police following the next violent outburst?

~ROE

[WileyCoyote]

Hi ROE!

I have been reading your thread (even before you linked it) and thinking a lot about all those things. Can't type a lot now, but I will later.

[WileyCoyote]

Hi ROE,
  I'll need to investigate the differing consequences of what different types of reporting do in my state.   I know a call to my home means at least one person MUST be taken into custody.  I need to look into reporting in person, etc, to set up a pattern before an event where I need to call the police.

Talked with my therapist about the realities of calling the cops.  How I needed to keep my calm demeanor if the police did come.  The sad truth that unless I am visibly injured the call might not go well for me (especially if I don't stay calm).  How I might need to prepare mentally for being taken into custody, remain calm, deal with it like an adult.  I have also informed family members and widened my support group so that if things happen, people won;t be so shocked.

Other than that, at this point I am much more aware and proactive about removing myself from the situation before it gets to this point.  As soon as a discussion turns into insults, I just say, "I know your upset, but your being mean.  If you want to talk later calmly, I will talk then"  Then I go do something else.  

This is usually met with " of course you don't want to talk, you don't care about me... or our marriage, if that is what you can call it... .ass!"  

I don't usually respond to this.  sometimes a "OK, talk later then"

And I enjoy my day, refuse to change plans, go play with my kid at the park, visit friends with my kid.  


After the most recent bout of Silent Treatment/Dissociation that lasted about 4 days she has been kind and talking to me.   She was going to see the T on this Sat and then we were going to go to the movies afterword (a rare time out together).   I had planned to talk with her while we were out to tell her how much I appreciated how hard she had been trying that week.  That I had noticed and it meant a lot to me.

BUT, that was derailed when she came back from the T.  Announced that she was not going to see him anymore.  And that she didn't want to go to the movies with me.   I will continue that as another thread here:

Wife Stopped Therapy

But yeas RoE.  I am coming to the realization that I am in an abusive relationship.  I am forming plans that I hope I will never have to use and steeling my resolve.

[pearlsw]

Hi WileyCoyote,

Oh, interesting, the doctor says it could be PTSD or BPD? I have wondered at times if my SO has one or both of these. Hard to tell for us regular folks!

Also, thank you for writing out about how you handled this situation. Sometimes my SO gets so insistent that we MUST talk when I really don't want to, because he is so extreme, but if I don't attend to his emotions a bit it just gets worse and worse. I have one technique of not letting him talk to me in room where it is hard to get away. If I see he wants to "talk" i get up, walk us to a more neutral room and do the "talking" there until/if I can't take it anymore.

Ugh!

Again, thanks for posting this! Gives me a lot to think about!

wishing you peace, pearl.

[WileyCoyote]

Hi Pearl,
  He told me it could be one or the other, or both. Their diagnostic trait lists are similar.  There was definitely something going on, but he couldn't label it diagnostically yet.

[RolandOfEld]

The sad truth that unless I am visibly injured the call might not go well for me (especially if I don't stay calm).  How I might need to prepare mentally for being taken into custody, remain calm, deal with it like an adult.  I have also informed family members and widened my support group so that if things happen, people won;t be so shocked.

I am coming to the realization that I am in an abusive relationship.  I am forming plans that I hope I will never have to use and steeling my resolve.

WC, apologies, I feel like I was slightly irresponsible in advising you here. I forgot to mention the risk that if you bring the cops to your house, it's possible she might turn it around on you and accuse you of violence, and police might be more likely to believe a woman than a man. And without physical evidence of harm, there is not much you can accomplish. Second, I am an American living in a foreign country that does things differently. Let me revise my suggestions regarding the police. You can call or stop by the station in charge of your neighborhood and ask if it is OK to file a report on violence without any followup actions on their part or immediate consequences for your wife. If they are willing to hear your story and understand the mental illness component, you can get the card of the officer in charge on your case to have ready in case anything serious happens. If the police say you can't make a report without taking someone in, thank them and leave without giving you or your wife's info.  

The report could serve as leverage if (in the absolutely worst case scenario) you enter a legal battle. Or, to protect yourself, you can notify her you filed the report and that as long as her violent behaviors stop, it needn't go any farther.

One other suggestion: if her violence towards you does leave some kind of mark, quickly get a photo of it. If it's more serious, get to a hospital and file a doctors report. Again, this is purely for legal purposes.

Also, I STRONGLY suggest keeping a written record of all of her dysregulated behavior, along with screenshots of any dysregulated text conversations. I have almost a novella's worth of records. Originally I did it for legal purposes, since it presents a clear narrative to the court of what's happened, but I also found that pulling it open and reading everything I've been through hardens up my resolve to do what is needed.  

Good move on notifying your family in advance. I did the same so if things come to a head it won't be a shock for them and they are prepared to help me.

WC please remember one thing. You are not hurting her by doing these things. You are protecting yourself and your son. And by introducing real life consequences to her behavior, you are actually helping her. Hang in there!

~ROE

[WileyCoyote]

RoE,
Hey man, no worries! I knew what you were saying.  Just sharing my thought process and convo with my T about all those same things you mentioned.   We covered all of that.  But seriously, thanks for looking out!

Was just saying, I had not thought of just reporting stuff afterword for their reference in case of an actual physIcal injury situation where emergency numbers are called. Need to investigate what the consequences of that are.

What was your experience with that?  :)o they come investigate and ask the "perpetrator" questions?  I'll find out for my location.  Just wondering your experience.

I have been writing journal entries and saving texts and emails. 

[RolandOfEld]

Hey WC, glad to hear you are ahead of the game on the journaling, it's really vital. 

Here's how my experience with the police went. For context, my wife has been physical towards me almost from the start. I just never made a thing of it because she's a woman. She has also been taking / destroying my things for several years. I never did anything about it.

This year my wife made a demand I could not fulfill and when I came home 70% of my work clothes along with some casual clothes had been cut to shreds. Hundreds of dollars worth of clothes. I brought the problem to the board and everyone here suggested I call the police. I held off. Took a little personal time and bought new clothes. New clothes disappeared. I told her next day over text that if one more thing went missing I would call the police. Next morning saw my last remaining work shirt was gone. I called the police over.

The cops came. The neighbors saw. It was deeply humiliating. The kids saw police come into the home. Didn't like that. The cops didn't really know what to do since to them this was just a fight. They seemed to think the whole thing was a little ridiculous. But they got my wife to admit it and I managed to get them to tell her that it was illegal to destroy my stuff even if we were married.  After they left my wife angrily promised she wouldn't take my stuff anymore. She also hit me. Things settled down eventually.

Few weeks later after an argument about the noisy neighbors upstairs on my way out to work my wife grabbed me and slapped me across the face. I photoed the mark and went down to the police station to ask if I could just a file a report. They didn't really get the problem and suggested I apply for a restraining order. That night I told my wife I reported her anyway and explained it didn't need to go any further if she stopped the violence. More bad stuff followed by eventual settling down.

Few weeks later after an argument one morning I found my bank card had gone missing. Didn't hesitate and went straight to police station. This time they said they weren't the right station for my neighborhood and drove me to the right one. MUCH better experience. The officer listened to my story and the stuff about BPD in detail. He was happy to take a full record of this and all the past episodes without any legal consequence for my wife. Even gave me his card and said I could call him directly for any future problems. I felt like I had found a new ally. Told my wife about the police. Lots of ugliness that ended with an agreement to see a doctor (as long as I went, too since I had my part in the problems).   

My wife has since seen the doctor twice and seems on the verge of getting a diagnosis. We are also arranged to have a social worker talk to her and then me. No hitting or stealing for (checking my record... .) almost two months. But I have to stick to the boundary. It happens again, it goes right to the police. But overall, lots of progress and some hope for the future.

What it comes down to is telling our wives this behavior is wrong will do nothing. They are not mentally stable and cannot take the responsibility. It's sad that the only way we can set a boundary is to involve the legal system. But it is the only kind of consequence they can understand since we are bad people who only want to hurt them and our words mean nothing. Make sense?

~ROE     

[WileyCoyote]

RoE,
  Thanks for taking the time to make the summary of your struggle.  I had gotten pieces of it in your other thread but this is very concise.  The destruction of so much at once must have been very hard. 

I want to avoid all the negative things if I can, but I might not have a choice. And your right.  I am not helping anyone by not doing anything.  It is good to hear the details of how it went for you.

[Radcliff]

WC, I was also nervous about calling the police to my home and put up with periodic assaults for years.  What I ended up doing once I decided to take a stand was drive to the police station and tell them about the situation I was living in, in generic terms, without reporting a specific incident.  I asked for them to explain to me what their policies were when responding to a DV call, and how they determined whether to arrest anyone and who to arrest.  I hoped to not just get information, but to establish a rapport with the local police.  Just a few days later, I did end up calling the police to my home.  The first officers who came up my walkway were the same two I'd spoken to a few nights previously at the station!  I was very glad I'd taken the time to go to the station.  The other benefit of my station visit is that the officers gave me the business card of a local DV advocate who has been a tremendous help to me.

Others have mentioned the importance of keeping documentation.  For over a year I kept detailed notes on nearly every abusive thing that happened.  This boosted my confidence, cut through my denial, and gave me a crucial tool to get outsiders to believe me.  Specific incidents, with dates, are very compelling.  You might consider having a 1-2 page summary that you could hand to responding officers.  If you appear calm, and hand them a summary like that, your chances of things going well for you might improve substantially.

WW

[WileyCoyote]

Thanks Wentworth.   This is very helpful and somewhat comforting (ha) information.