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Author Topic: “I want to always keep the door open... What does this mean?”  (Read 906 times)
Struggler123
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« on: June 01, 2018, 10:48:19 PM »

I told my ex that I could no longer be friends with her because its pretty clear that I’m not over you, and I don’t know how you feel about me and I’d rather not know, so that it could help both of us move on. She told me that she’s only concerned about my happiness and if that’s what I want then she will accept it and live with it. But, she wants to keep the door open always and if and when I need her she will be there for me.

I thought it was a very sweet thing to say, because it showed that maybe I did make a difference in her life, but thats where I feel like I was wrong, maybe this was just mirroring my actions because thats the kind of person I am.

I’m not trying to look deep within it too much, but I actually do hope that she finds her peace and she hasn’t contacted me in a week so it seems like I did clean up nicely. Thoughts?
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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2018, 01:30:27 AM »

My ex wanted to be friends with me while conducting a relationship with another guy while living with me and the kids.  It made her feel better. 

What makes you feel better and what do you want?
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2018, 02:03:06 AM »

My ex wanted to be friends with me while conducting a relationship with another guy while living with me and the kids.  It made her feel better. 

What makes you feel better and what do you want?


I became speechless after that statement.  I didn’t think that was even remotely possible. If you don’t mind me asking, what did you do? When presented with that kind of “ultimatium.” I wouldn’t call it a choice, because as sad as it is with BPD, its always about them. Honestly, I’m doing better on my own, i’m an introvert so i kind of do energize myself being in isolation if that makes sense. As for, what do I want, I do everything in balance and the idea of being “friends” isn’t for me. In oue last conversation thats what I told her because I don’t want to be reminded everytime a “crisis” comes up that it’s my fault things didn’t work out. I hope she stays happy, but its time for me to let go and that’s what im doing. I don’t really see a future anymore, and i’d rather respect the new guy because I wouldn’t my finance talking to her ex. Do good and good comes to you.
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2018, 02:14:20 AM »

I couldn't stand to be in the same room with her for about a year.  She knew it.  Since we have kids this was hard.  I got over it.  Hard was when she asked to come back a year ago.  No. I still struggle with boundaries and sometimes anger,  but the latter I've felt better about letting go. 
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2018, 03:11:22 AM »

It translates into, wants to keep you as someone to turn to when the chips are down, an insurance policy.

Reverse the "there for you if and when you need me", she wasnt available for you before when you needed her, whats the chance she will be in the future.

Your right it is mirroring, and the biggest difficulty in life when it comes to empathy is to take an egocentric viewpoint and assume because you feel a certain way, others feel the same.

Harley Quinn said yesterday "ignore the words, look at the actions" or words to that effect. Look at her track record, you ended up pretty disappointed by her.

What has changed beyond words to think anything would be different in future.

Im regarded as "friends" again with my ex. Yet I wonder how long it would last if I would phone her at 5 in the morning to talk through my emotional issues and lack of sleep she caused. I dont bother, I come here instead to tried and trusted friends,

A friend in need is a friend indeed
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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2018, 07:14:19 AM »

I couldn't stand to be in the same room with her for about a year.  She knew it.  Since we have kids this was hard.  I got over it.  Hard was when she asked to come back a year ago.  No. I still struggle with boundaries and sometimes anger,  but the latter I've felt better about letting go. 

I would feel the same way. That’s so unfortunate and im really sorry you had to go through that. When you add kids into the picture its a different story at that moment. I’m sure you made a lot sacrifices to give those kids stability as well. From where i’m standing, you’ve crossed oceans already. Sometimes the anger eats us inside and thats why its best to just let that go. You deserve a lot better, thank you for sharing your story. I really hope she gets help, because without it she will hurt numerous people at this rate.


It translates into, wants to keep you as someone to turn to when the chips are down, an insurance policy.

Reverse the "there for you if and when you need me", she wasnt available for you before when you needed her, whats the chance she will be in the future.

Your right it is mirroring, and the biggest difficulty in life when it comes to empathy is to take an egocentric viewpoint and assume because you feel a certain way, others feel the same.

Harley Quinn said yesterday "ignore the words, look at the actions" or words to that effect. Look at her track record, you ended up pretty disappointed by her.

What has changed beyond words to think anything would be different in future.

Im regarded as "friends" again with my ex. Yet I wonder how long it would last if I would phone her at 5 in the morning to talk through my emotional issues and lack of sleep she caused. I dont bother, I come here instead to tried and trusted friends,

A friend in need is a friend indeed

Cromwell, sometimes we know what the truth is and we just need someone to say the words for us. I think in my case, you did just that. As hard as it is to accept it, I do think that its a form of insurance policy. When I was going through the first month, she was too busy making preparations and making sure that I saw that her engagement was in the works. She wanted to prove like look at this, and wanted a reaction out of it. That’s the thing, I was wrong to expect empathy from someone that never learned it. I remember her saying Why don’t I have empathy once and from that point on, I really began to understand she really didn’t feel it. At times I feel like I need to understand that I couldn’t have changed the outcome and this was as good as it gets, but sometimes when your having those late night thoughts it kinda just gets to you.  To be honest, the situation is gonna remain the same only the characters are going to change. I hope things improve for her, but I can’t be the one to lose myself anymore.  You are right. I’m sure that at 5 am she would not be coming to the rescue, your ex or mine, and that’s okay because this platform is more than enough. Thank you Cromwell, indeed a friend in need is a friend indeed. I really appreciate your input.
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« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2018, 07:27:56 AM »

Harley Quinn said yesterday "ignore the words, look at the actions" or words to that effect. Look at her track record, you ended up pretty disappointed by her.

Are  YOU  really letting go of something special? That's what you need to ask yourself.

Most borderlines are convinced that their ex-partners have indeed lost something special and minimize or deny the negative aspects that their partners went through. They  believe that treating you like cr*p is justified and that you should love them unconditionally.

Is that someone you want to be friends with after you split up?
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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2018, 08:41:59 AM »

Are  YOU  really letting go of something special? That's what you need to ask yourself.

Most borderlines are convinced that their ex-partners have indeed lost something special and minimize or deny the negative aspects that their partners went through. They  believe that treating you like cr*p is justified and that you should love them unconditionally.

Is that someone you want to be friends with after you split up?


In my mind, I know that I wasn’t letting go of something special to say. It was my mins that kept telling me that I wasn’t ready to take the next step with her. But, in my heart I wanted to believe that there was something special, that this fantasy did exist in the depths of the rage, threats and negative aspects. I thought about what you said and it made realize something else as well, I’ve been pretty strict on my no contact basis, I never texted her and everytime she would be the one trying to maintain contact. She would only contact me when she felt like she needed reassurance and validation, and thats the reality of it. Every single time I’d be honest about it, she would say okay and then revert back to the same behavoirs. I don’t want to be friends because there’s literally nothing leff, its like doing the same experiment over and over again trying to get different results. Something I never understood was, the day after saying yes to someone she was getting upset about me not holding her hand. It’s like all logic goes out the window. I know what I should do, its just hard to fully reach it.
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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2018, 09:16:10 AM »

Are  YOU  really letting go of something special? That's what you need to ask yourself.

Most borderlines are convinced that their ex-partners have indeed lost something special and minimize or deny the negative aspects that their partners went through. They  believe that treating you like cr*p is justified and that you should love them unconditionally.

Is that someone you want to be friends with after you split up?

Not at all and I thank you for that crystal clearness post, it makes a great deal of sense to me.

I dont regard this as a friendship, although she does, I guess im conflicted because I did enjoy the happy times spent together, her company, it would be a good thing to continue, the problem is I dont think its possible to achieve without the volatility that goes with it. It actually hurts a bit when she is now reminding me of selected happy moments we omshared together, yes they were awesome but I cant help but want to point out to her - "actually, the whole day was perfect for me, until the last 20minutes before we parted and you said the most obnoxious thing that ruined it all". That pattern became so predicable that I could apply it to every moment of nostalgia she brings up, its annoying because in her mind, she didnt do anything wrong almost to the point of making me feel that she manufactured those moments of happiness for me much like i should get an invoice for "acting services rendered". She claims to have enjoyed being together, yet part of me doesnt fully believe that.

Your post gave me a lot to think about, thanks a lot.
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« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2018, 11:54:17 AM »

what does "i want to always keep the door open" mean in this context?

i think its obvious, Struggler123. she wants some level of connection. she doesnt want to be shut out from your life, and she doesnt want to completely let go. i dont think this is nefarious at all, i do think its inappropriate, given the circumstances, and i think its hurtful for you given she has a terrible sense of whats appropriate.

i also think youre struggling with similar difficulties. i dont say that to scold you, i point it out because its not difficult to understand where shes coming from here; youve both been conflicted at some level. if you think about it, it hasnt been a much different dynamic than when you were in a relationship. youd feel overwhelmed, distance yourself and avoid her but still be available for her to push, and shed respond by clinging and holding on and even ramping up the pressure.

shes been fighting to maintain some connection. likely, as her new relationship progresses, that connection will naturally fade and she wont cling as hard to maintain it.
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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2018, 01:36:17 PM »

what does "i want to always keep the door open" mean in this context?

i think its obvious, Struggler123. she wants some level of connection. she doesnt want to be shut out from your life, and she doesnt want to completely let go. i dont think this is nefarious at all, i do think its inappropriate, given the circumstances, and i think its hurtful for you given she has a terrible sense of whats appropriate.

i also think youre struggling with similar difficulties. i dont say that to scold you, i point it out because its not difficult to understand where shes coming from here; youve both been conflicted at some level. if you think about it, it hasnt been a much different dynamic than when you were in a relationship. youd feel overwhelmed, distance yourself and avoid her but still be available for her to push, and shed respond by clinging and holding on and even ramping up the pressure.

shes been fighting to maintain some connection. likely, as her new relationship progresses, that connection will naturally fade and she wont cling as hard to maintain it.


I agree, I don’t think its some sort of manipulation on her part but does seem inappropriate simply because I feel like just like She was suddenly engaged to his guy in 2 days, she could easily just throw me out whenever she feels like its suddenly appropriate. I think that a friendship is a two way road, not something that can be thrown away whenever felt like it. I do agree that to an extend those difficulties are there. I try hard to not respond but ultimately she somehow gets through to me.  But, its been been a week since she tried contacted me after I told her that its best we shouldnt be in contact and she said that she will accept it but shes there if I needed her.  So im sure that it will fade with time, just bothers me at times how someone can say theyre trying to be happy in a relationship, I suppose I need to work on my Superman Syndrome.
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« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2018, 10:52:24 AM »

I suppose I need to work on my Superman Syndrome.

I find that staying far away from sources of kryptonite has been a good start.

What would your instinctive reaction be if she were to come to your door late one night, tears down her face saying she, its over please can she come in she just needs to talk she doesnt have anyone else she trusts. Shes so sorry for hurting you she knows you have always been a real friend.

thats what "keeping the door open" really means. So please prepare yourself for the possibility.

The contact I have with her is nothing different, she has my number and it doesnt cost her anything to work on me, slowly if needs be. Its a case of "worth a try, nothing to lose but told no".

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Struggler123
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« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2018, 12:28:14 PM »

I find that staying far away from sources of kryptonite has been a good start.

What would your instinctive reaction be if she were to come to your door late one night, tears down her face saying she, its over please can she come in she just needs to talk she doesnt have anyone else she trusts. Shes so sorry for hurting you she knows you have always been a real friend.

thats what "keeping the door open" really means. So please prepare yourself for the possibility.

The contact I have with her is nothing different, she has my number and it doesnt cost her anything to work on me, slowly if needs be. Its a case of "worth a try, nothing to lose but told no".




I just wish it was easier to stay away. Considering I still fall weak when she calls. Its almost as if I hope that things changed with her and I still treat her in a gentle man. My superman syndrome would try to help her although that would be the wrong instinctive reaction. I’ve let go of the idea of having a relatiobship again simply because I don’t see it happening ever again. I feel like keeping the door open really does mean that she can try for a second round with “us” but I don’t think that would be a good idea considering the way things worked out. Could you explain what you mean by nothing to lose but told no? Do you mean that thats her way of trying to lure you in and even if you say no it wouldn’t matter to her? It’s just sad how no matter what someone does you can’t really a clean break up with a BPD. I feel like I am too concerned with trying to end things nicely and not “hurt” her.
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« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2018, 01:25:52 PM »

The feelings of abandonment would hurt, thats the whole point of the eventual triangulation.

My ex wont trust me after I went ghosted form of No Contact, yet I did it because she was hanging around elsewhere (part of the reason, a factor, but not the decisive reason). I could tell when my ex was with others, her behaviour changed to being more controlling, more arrogant and more nasty - in other words, she never relied on me as much for providing the emotional needs, but I was still kept available - that is the key thing to consider. At the height of everything going great in the relationship, she find someone else. This didnt happen overnight, and is part of the hurt - she did this in the background whilst at the same time maintaining a very good yet superficial relationship with me. She came back to me within a few days and made extra efforts to ensure I wouldnt leave her at that point, the way I see it now is she couldnt yet depend on the other guy, in the end it didnt, partly because of my reaction to it, but as the r/s continued im more than certain she did the same MO again. To summarise, there was no love-transference that goes on beyond an adoration/idolisation short period of time until I was heavily emotionally invested/commited. When she realises that I naturally expect the same, beyond "acting", that is when the abandoment/engulfment/commitment phobia set in. Again, not about her lack of love or wish of giving it,  as much as not being able to ever get to that level with anyone.

I should have paid more attention to her history, she had a new bf every week, but she never spoke of her past r/s except to blame them all and it suited me to feel as if I had found the one that nothing could go wrong, because I wasnt like them. I believed her, naively so, and all the other hooks of infactuation and constant adoration made me not want to think otherwise it accepted everything prima facie, I thought for her to be deceiving me at that level she went to would be so outrageous and so lacking in character or self esteem to be next to impossible.

to tie this together with the behaviour exhibited in your situation, no-one can say how she might feel if she never hears from you again. I saw my ex a few times cry when triggered about people that had permanently detached from her, but these always came from the form of her not being responsible, to quote her "bad things always happening to me". Maybe yours might feel this way too, at a certain weak moment in time. I get messages telling me that she crys when she hears certain songs, the thing is Struggler, I dont believe a word she says, with good reason to. I wont allow myself to be seduced back in, ive had that approach and ive had the "im feeling really bad today" invitation to come rescue her. Both could have elements of truth to them, yet I am always forced to remember the mistakes I made in the past by believing prima facie.

if you open the door and role play this rescuer, youll get transient hero status, which fizzles away quick to "zero hero" and hated for rescuing them.

By making it clear to her now that you wont play this role, it gives her the chance to triangulate elsewhere. I made a mistake by getting her hopes high by giving her my number on the bus, it was having the door creaked open again. Maybe in their minds we are "numero uno" at that specific moment in time how they feel emotionally, but it is fickle because they have to go elsewhere and re-enact the same. If my ex could have a lattice network of guys that were available on call and she could ensure they never knew better that she was "the one", that would be her closest to a form of fulfillment. I could reciprocate what she is doing now and sit on the sidelines for when it goes wrong with her elsewhere, destined to, and if im the best available she wouldnt hesitate to come to my door - despite all that has happened. Its that desperation moment of need fulfillment to deal with the heightened emotional state; emptiness, abandonment triggers. I work and study in medical, I have the personality of fulfillment helping those in distress, it was my downfall in this r/s and it is hard work on my part to consciously avoid it happening again. I dont believe therapy will even cure my ex, although there are many claims that it is the one thing that does. Helping people makes me feel better, helping people that hurt me deeply as a consequence is something that ive had to learn is an exception to the rule. Reason being, in the state I got to, I was in no position to barely help myself let alone anyone else, and thats not a place I ever go back to.

It depends what you want in a r/s Struggler, one based on feeling sorry for someone and letting them continually hurt you as you try to help them or an acceptance that you owe a duty to your wellbeing first and foremost. Acknowledging also that trying to help can inadvertently make things worse for her rather than better. On the one hand my ex proclaims to me how much ive done for her, in another conversation she tells me that her mental health has got worse since meeting me. Then later telling me she was just "kidding". The truth may well be a blend of all of these things and by detaching there will be the lack of guilt that in the process of being kind, I get blamed for doing harm. "no good deed goes unpunished" springs to mind.


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« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2018, 01:31:39 PM »

Thank you for this thread. It helps me realise how a lot of the behaviour of the pwBPD is actually egocentric and juvenile at its core.

To answer your thread title: I could say something similar as well. But it would mean that one could always reach me when in need. However, in this case I feel the statement is far more egocentric. Just like the others said, she wants to maintain a certain connection, because she feels it is not beneficial to cut off all contact entirely. Call it an insurance policy, a way to avoid abandonment, whatever. But it is for her. Not for you.

This thread helps me as well. I thought she was great and I cared (and care) a lot about her. But I've come to realise that eventually she will always chose for herself.
It is indeed all about her. About her image. About her pain. She cannot deal with mine.
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« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2018, 01:38:36 PM »

(... .)
Helping people makes me feel better, helping people that hurt me deeply as a consequence is something that ive had to learn is an exception to the rule. Reason being, in the state I got to, I was in no position to barely help myself let alone anyone else, and thats not a place I ever go back to.

It depends what you want in a r/s Struggler, one based on feeling sorry for someone and letting them continually hurt you as you try to help them or an acceptance that you owe a duty to your wellbeing first and foremost. Acknowledging also that trying to help can inadvertently make things worse for her rather than better. On the one hand my ex proclaims to me how much ive done for her, in another conversation she tells me that her mental health has got worse since meeting me. Then later telling me she was just "kidding". The truth may well be a blend of all of these things and by detaching there will be the lack of guilt that in the process of being kind, I get blamed for doing harm. "no good deed goes unpunished" springs to mind.




I identify with so much in your post Cromwell. Just like in my own thread, it is like we've experienced the same thing... .
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« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2018, 04:42:07 PM »

Excerpt
It helps me realise how a lot of the behaviour of the pwBPD is actually egocentric and juvenile at its core.

@EDR
It is my understanding though reading, as well as personal observation, people suffering from BPD are the antithesis of egocentric. 

It seems to be a lack of self, a sense of crushing insecurity, which leads to their fear and blinding pain.  Emotionally their development seems to be arrested -so in a way --yes I can agree with 'juvenile'. 

Mine had no control over her emotions and was instead at their mercy.  Fear seems to be her primary drive.  Fear which often presented as rage.  Fear which often presented as lies to protect a fragile self image -not a sense of self.  Fear which drove her to promiscuity.  Everything she did seemed to be motivated by fear -not self betterment or ego.  Her self image seemed to shift from moment to moment and day to day. 

These people accept me they are good -thus I am good.  This could flip quickly to these people are bad -thus I am bad.

When she was hurt she surgically cut people out of her life.  This was not out of a position of ego driven strength, it was instead an inability to recognize sometimes friends need help.  Friendship is not all skittles and beer.  She was not willing to put the work into helping them -instead she would ghost them.

It seemed to be a flight to safety, which sadly reinforced her fear of abandonment -the self fulfilling prophecy of BPD.

Excerpt
she will always chose for herself.


Once again my experience differs here.  I saw time and time again self destructive behavior, the antithesis of choosing self.  In an extreme and literal example during periods of dysphoria she would cut herself -this does not show ego or making choices which benefited her. 

@Struggler I cannot have my undiagnosed BPD ex in my life precisely because I care so much for her.  I can not bear to see the choices she will make, to see her pain and continued self destructive behavior.  The beautiful part of her is literally magical, but she is hell bent for destruction and it it no longer my duty to try to protect her. --My watch is done.

Do I miss her?  Hell yes.  Can I help her?  I am afraid not.  Leaving her was the hardest thing I have ever done, but I had to choose what was best for me. 

Now is a time for me to heal, learn and grow. 


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« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2018, 05:01:46 PM »

The feelings of abandonment would hurt, thats the whole point of the eventual triangulation.

My ex wont trust me after I went ghosted form of No Contact, yet I did it because she was hanging around elsewhere (part of the reason, a factor, but not the decisive reason). I could tell when my ex was with others, her behaviour changed to being more controlling, more arrogant and more nasty - in other words, she never relied on me as much for providing the emotional needs, but I was still kept available - that is the key thing to consider. At the height of everything going great in the relationship, she find someone else. This didnt happen overnight, and is part of the hurt - she did this in the background whilst at the same time maintaining a very good yet superficial relationship with me. She came back to me within a few days and made extra efforts to ensure I wouldnt leave her at that point, the way I see it now is she couldnt yet depend on the other guy, in the end it didnt, partly because of my reaction to it, but as the r/s continued im more than certain she did the same MO again. To summarise, there was no love-transference that goes on beyond an adoration/idolisation short period of time until I was heavily emotionally invested/commited. When she realises that I naturally expect the same, beyond "acting", that is when the abandoment/engulfment/commitment phobia set in. Again, not about her lack of love or wish of giving it,  as much as not being able to ever get to that level with anyone.

I should have paid more attention to her history, she had a new bf every week, but she never spoke of her past r/s except to blame them all and it suited me to feel as if I had found the one that nothing could go wrong, because I wasnt like them. I believed her, naively so, and all the other hooks of infactuation and constant adoration made me not want to think otherwise it accepted everything prima facie, I thought for her to be deceiving me at that level she went to would be so outrageous and so lacking in character or self esteem to be next to impossible.

to tie this together with the behaviour exhibited in your situation, no-one can say how she might feel if she never hears from you again. I saw my ex a few times cry when triggered about people that had permanently detached from her, but these always came from the form of her not being responsible, to quote her "bad things always happening to me". Maybe yours might feel this way too, at a certain weak moment in time. I get messages telling me that she crys when she hears certain songs, the thing is Struggler, I dont believe a word she says, with good reason to. I wont allow myself to be seduced back in, ive had that approach and ive had the "im feeling really bad today" invitation to come rescue her. Both could have elements of truth to them, yet I am always forced to remember the mistakes I made in the past by believing prima facie.

if you open the door and role play this rescuer, youll get transient hero status, which fizzles away quick to "zero hero" and hated for rescuing them.

By making it clear to her now that you wont play this role, it gives her the chance to triangulate elsewhere. I made a mistake by getting her hopes high by giving her my number on the bus, it was having the door creaked open again. Maybe in their minds we are "numero uno" at that specific moment in time how they feel emotionally, but it is fickle because they have to go elsewhere and re-enact the same. If my ex could have a lattice network of guys that were available on call and she could ensure they never knew better that she was "the one", that would be her closest to a form of fulfillment. I could reciprocate what she is doing now and sit on the sidelines for when it goes wrong with her elsewhere, destined to, and if im the best available she wouldnt hesitate to come to my door - despite all that has happened. Its that desperation moment of need fulfillment to deal with the heightened emotional state; emptiness, abandonment triggers. I work and study in medical, I have the personality of fulfillment helping those in distress, it was my downfall in this r/s and it is hard work on my part to consciously avoid it happening again. I dont believe therapy will even cure my ex, although there are many claims that it is the one thing that does. Helping people makes me feel better, helping people that hurt me deeply as a consequence is something that ive had to learn is an exception to the rule. Reason being, in the state I got to, I was in no position to barely help myself let alone anyone else, and thats not a place I ever go back to.

It depends what you want in a r/s Struggler, one based on feeling sorry for someone and letting them continually hurt you as you try to help them or an acceptance that you owe a duty to your wellbeing first and foremost. Acknowledging also that trying to help can inadvertently make things worse for her rather than better. On the one hand my ex proclaims to me how much ive done for her, in another conversation she tells me that her mental health has got worse since meeting me. Then later telling me she was just "kidding". The truth may well be a blend of all of these things and by detaching there will be the lack of guilt that in the process of being kind, I get blamed for doing harm. "no good deed goes unpunished" springs to mind.




Crom correct me if I’m wrong but your exGF found someone at the Height of your relationship ? If that’s the case I’d have to say that’s brutal .I can’t say ML did that to me ,I’d say I’m a lucky one that during the height of our relationship she seemed to stay away from her harem.Only before the abortion she cheated on me and then naturally after the second time I left her she was shopping and found suitors... .understanding BPD I kinda get that now it’s natural.I think mine tried really hard at first to make it work but it was exhausting for her and really she was putting too much effort to be honest.I remember often she would say I don’t know how much more I can love you so you understand ? I always told her “ Marie-xxxx you don’t have to try to love me or make me know ,I’m good with how you are naturally no worries “,she never understood. Often more than not I got a lot of really weird comments that frankly to this day I still don’t understand.The top one that I’ve exhausted myself trying to figure out was her favorite “you are forbidden you know that” you are too good . Kinda always scratched my head to that one”.

All in all both you and struggles at least have them running after younstill mine has moved on ,dead silence .I guess in one way it’s positive that I can heal faster and not play tug of war with my emotions.The negative is I feel kinda empty that she’s totally done even though she didn’t paint me black she must have while we’ve been away or simply found a new target .Thats life gentleman and another page turned in my book of what the heck just happened section .
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« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2018, 06:09:07 PM »

I suppose I need to work on my Superman Syndrome.
Some of us here are indeed "fixers," thinking that we could have somehow changed something that is very complex and difficult to change. It's not like making a simple suggestion to someone who just needs a little nudge to get on track again. With BPD and other "cluster B" disorders, it takes significant work to go from someone who creates chaos with those around them to someone who relates reasonably and respectfully to those closest to them.

There truly was a time that I thought that love would turn it around. Nope. When someone has a bottomless hole within them that nothing will satisfy, no individual but themselves can turn it around in the end.
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« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2018, 12:28:23 AM »

@EDR
It is my understanding though reading, as well as personal observation, people suffering from BPD are the antithesis of egocentric. 

It seems to be a lack of self, a sense of crushing insecurity, which leads to their fear and blinding pain.  Emotionally their development seems to be arrested -so in a way --yes I can agree with 'juvenile'. 

Mine had no control over her emotions and was instead at their mercy.  Fear seems to be her primary drive.  Fear which often presented as rage.  Fear which often presented as lies to protect a fragile self image -not a sense of self.  Fear which drove her to promiscuity.  Everything she did seemed to be motivated by fear -not self betterment or ego.  Her self image seemed to shift from moment to moment and day to day. 

These people accept me they are good -thus I am good.  This could flip quickly to these people are bad -thus I am bad.

When she was hurt she surgically cut people out of her life.  This was not out of a position of ego driven strength, it was instead an inability to recognize sometimes friends need help.  Friendship is not all skittles and beer.  She was not willing to put the work into helping them -instead she would ghost them.

It seemed to be a flight to safety, which sadly reinforced her fear of abandonment -the self fulfilling prophecy of BPD.
 

Once again my experience differs here.  I saw time and time again self destructive behavior, the antithesis of choosing self.  In an extreme and literal example during periods of dysphoria she would cut herself -this does not show ego or making choices which benefited her. 

@Struggler I cannot have my undiagnosed BPD ex in my life precisely because I care so much for her.  I can not bear to see the choices she will make, to see her pain and continued self destructive behavior.  The beautiful part of her is literally magical, but she is hell bent for destruction and it it no longer my duty to try to protect her. --My watch is done.

Do I miss her?  Hell yes.  Can I help her?  I am afraid not.  Leaving her was the hardest thing I have ever done, but I had to choose what was best for me. 

Now is a time for me to heal, learn and grow. 


Wicker Man

Hi Wicker Man,

I do not think we disagree on this. I am just leaving motivation out of the equation for a second here.
They are making choices or just doing stuff based on their own feelings and their broken sense of self.

Although their motivation is not to inflate their ego, in a way it isn't less egocentric imho. In the classic Greek sense of: it is eventually about themselves. About their fears, feelings etc...
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« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2018, 11:15:54 AM »

so whats the plan, Struggler123?
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« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2018, 11:33:14 AM »

so whats the plan, Struggler123?

Thank you to everyone for their input, and making me see through the words. As hard as it is to accept it, thats all the words are just words. Its like they say don’t make permanent decisions based on temporary feelings. At this point in time, I am weak and as Cromwell, WickerMan and Shawn said its at this point that we feel most vunerable. She contacted me again, yesterday, and just wanted to thank me for keeping the door open, I kept it mature as possible. But today, I do feel a bit stronger and hopefully little by little I can eventually go no contact. It’s either that or I can allow her to do it and then feel even worse. So its not really a plan, more of a pick the better option and go with that. It’s just hard at times accepting that none of it is true or real and that its always about her. Makes me kind of sad as well, to realize that I actually failed in helping her, I know its a bad kind of thinking but, I’ve always been driven by motivation and positive reinforcement and it was only when I felt some of the negative aspects that it drew back and made me realize that maybe this isn’t for me. Its like I know what I have to do but I just can’t come to terms with it. I know that no one can advise the perfect plan, but for those that responded if you were in my situation, what would you guys do? 
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« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2018, 11:52:15 AM »

Both of these might be to extreme... .

I thought it was a very sweet thing to say, because it showed that maybe I did make a difference in her life, but thats where I feel like I was wrong, maybe this was just mirroring my actions because thats the kind of person I am.

It translates into, wants to keep you as someone to turn to when the chips are down, an insurance policy.

Reverse the "there for you if and when you need me", she wasnt available for you before when you needed her, whats the chance she will be in the future.

This gal wanted to get married. You said no. She asked if it was OK with you if she takes another engagement offer. You said yes. She asked you several times if you might change your mind. You said no.

... .now she is saying, if I have to lose all contact with you, I will respect that. My door is open if you change your mind.

This is a cordial ending of a relationship. Period.

Did she see suddenly see the light and change in some way? Probably not. She is just being respectful. Most likely she has some guilt about hurting you and she has some nervousness about the days ahead for her.

If this selfish, mentally ill behavior? Probably not. This is a textbook amicable end.

You two have very different values and priorities... .she wanted marriage over you, you wanted "no marriage" over her. There was a lot right in this relationship. There were some issues for sure, which may be a deal breaker in and of them-self. And then there is this value conflict.

She was too bad to keep, too good to lose... .and that is a hard thing to deal with in your mind.

You said to her, "look, you hurt me too much... ." and she said, "well, I'd like to still lean on you when I need a friend (a boost, someone to talk too, etc.), but OK, I get that you are hurt".

Post relationship friends are not friends at all... .they are amicable ex's. She asked for more, but settled with the "doors open if you change your mind".

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« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2018, 12:17:23 PM »

Excerpt
She was too bad to keep, too good to lose... .

It sure sums up my situation perfectly and I am sure it will resonate with a lot of people here.

Well said and thank you. 


Wicker Man
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« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2018, 12:46:22 PM »

Both of these might be to extreme... .

This gal wanted to get married. You said no. She asked if it was OK with you if she takes another engagement offer. You said yes. She asked you several times if you might change your mind. You said no.

... .now she is saying, if I have to lose all contact with you, I will respect that. My door is open if you change your mind.

This is a cordial ending of a relationship. Period.

Did she see suddenly see the light and change in some way? Probably not. She is just being respectful. Most likely she has some guilt about hurting you and she has some nervousness about the days ahead for her.

If this selfish, mentally ill behavior? Probably not. This is a textbook amicable end.

You two have very different values and priorities... .she wanted marriage over you, you wanted "no marriage" over her. There was a lot right in this relationship. There were some issues for sure, which may be a deal breaker in and of them-self. And then there is this value conflict.

She was too bad to keep, too good to lose... .and that is a hard thing to deal with in your mind.

You said to her, "look, you hurt me too much... ." and she said, "well, I'd like to still lean on you when I need a friend (a boost, someone to talk too, etc.), but OK, I get that you are hurt".

Post relationship friends are not friends at all... .they are amicable ex's. She asked for more, but settled with the "doors open if you change your mind".




After reading your response, it made me realize that I too was wrong and it does take two people in a relationship. As hard as it is to accept it, I did make mistakes too. I’m not trying to justify anything, but I don’t think you can really stop someone from getting married, the idea that someone tells you that they are gonna accept an offer indicates you have already made up your mind and that too in a matter of 48 hours. In no way, do I blame her, we had different things that we wanted, I was just trying to somehow join the cross roads. Honestly, it was the most respectable way that things could have ended. I’d be lying if I said that wasn’t true, when it was good it was great and when it was bad, it was a mess. I just can’t seem to wrap my head around the idea that if you change your mind, simply because you can’t just jump into and out of engagements. I suppose this is where change of values comes in. To me, it wasn’t about BPD or not, If it were up to me, I’d make sure she never felt the way she did, but if we’re talking rationally that can never happen until she wants to get better not for me not for the new guy but for herself. I am not trying to paint her as someone shes not because she was great to me, but at the current moment, it makes things all so much harder because the reality is that the emptyness she feels can not be fulfilled by me or anyone, and I think thats the problem. My problem is im trying to ask for the same space and understanding that I give to her problem is that will never be possible and im trying to wrap my head around it.
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« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2018, 02:36:32 PM »

Makes me kind of sad as well, to realize that I actually failed in helping her, I know its a bad kind of thinking but, I’ve always been driven by motivation and positive reinforcement and it was only when I felt some of the negative aspects that it drew back and made me realize that maybe this isn’t for me.

This really is the problem, your beating yourself up for something you shouldnt, I feel that keeping this contact is trying to cling on to some hope that you will find a "perfect" more palatable conclusion, one that over-rides the damage already caused.

You havent failed, you have touched on her life and showed her kindness and cared for her. I am slightly taken back by a few things my ex has told me in this past month, that she remembers so vividly. I hope in some way our encounter will help her in her future as much as it has mine. I dont see that as failure. Implanting a personality into her so she has no emptiness is also not success. Compassion for her serious illness, trying to do something about it or alleviate the symptoms, all noble things, trying to change the unchangable (only she can begin to do something about her condition not you) is just fantasy land whimsical dreaming.

If a fortune teller would have warned me in advance that all this would happen, having met that sex, fun loving, girl at the start, if i would have believed it, I would have ran a mile and not got emotionally involved at all. In short, I didnt sign up trying to help someone, it turned into it and buyers remoarse just took a long time to set in. I loved her and "turning my back on her" was when I realised that I do actually have a life of my own to lead beyond her needs, feelings unmet, and happiness to pursue.

Your life is in a limbo until you draw a line under this. We all heal at different rates but I think im ready to accept im better, want to get back out there, deserve better and not become institutionalised (those patients that eventually get so used to being treated they dont even want to leave when they are better).

I think sometimes there is just that trepidation after an injury of the fear of getting back up again, lest it happen again. We encountered borderline not just an awkward girlfriend. if that were the case idve been cured in up to a week max of some on and off sobbing in front of the tv with a kebab and a carton of hagen daz instead of a 9month adventure into amateur psychoanalysis and introspection more out of desperation than of any interest. There is alot of value I got during the relationship as well as unexpectedly, after it.

there comes a point of diminishing returns, a time to consolidate gains and move on. in short, I came to this board for support and answers, ive got them. The goal being wanting to move on, not a search for "perfect" closure. It doesnt exist. But what is so difficult to leave her at this moment in time that you couldnt live with or feel guilty about? especially she has a partner and there isnt any grave distress she is showing. If you had married her, that would have been different to an extent, but you havent, you are not obliged and I say this morally from a cultural expectation. Not many people would criticise you for choosing to go no contact, regardless of anything else; even when considering the hurt you have experienced above that gets factored in.

to counteract the saying of "keeping a door open", theres another one that says "one door closes, a thousand open". but "closed" means just that. Thats my advice ditch and switch you owe yourself, you did what was reasonable, she has chosen someone else you owe her nothing, he does let him do the work he signed up for the package deal just like we did.
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« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2018, 04:20:15 PM »

This really is the problem, your beating yourself up for something you shouldnt, I feel that keeping this contact is trying to cling on to some hope that you will find a "perfect" more palatable conclusion, one that over-rides the damage already caused.

You havent failed, you have touched on her life and showed her kindness and cared for her. I am slightly taken back by a few things my ex has told me in this past month, that she remembers so vividly. I hope in some way our encounter will help her in her future as much as it has mine. I dont see that as failure. Implanting a personality into her so she has no emptiness is also not success. Compassion for her serious illness, trying to do something about it or alleviate the symptoms, all noble things, trying to change the unchangable (only she can begin to do something about her condition not you) is just fantasy land whimsical dreaming.

If a fortune teller would have warned me in advance that all this would happen, having met that sex, fun loving, girl at the start, if i would have believed it, I would have ran a mile and not got emotionally involved at all. In short, I didnt sign up trying to help someone, it turned into it and buyers remoarse just took a long time to set in. I loved her and "turning my back on her" was when I realised that I do actually have a life of my own to lead beyond her needs, feelings unmet, and happiness to pursue.

Your life is in a limbo until you draw a line under this. We all heal at different rates but I think im ready to accept im better, want to get back out there, deserve better and not become institutionalised (those patients that eventually get so used to being treated they dont even want to leave when they are better).

I think sometimes there is just that trepidation after an injury of the fear of getting back up again, lest it happen again. We encountered borderline not just an awkward girlfriend. if that were the case idve been cured in up to a week max of some on and off sobbing in front of the tv with a kebab and a carton of hagen daz instead of a 9month adventure into amateur psychoanalysis and introspection more out of desperation than of any interest. There is alot of value I got during the relationship as well as unexpectedly, after it.

there comes a point of diminishing returns, a time to consolidate gains and move on. in short, I came to this board for support and answers, ive got them. The goal being wanting to move on, not a search for "perfect" closure. It doesnt exist. But what is so difficult to leave her at this moment in time that you couldnt live with or feel guilty about? especially she has a partner and there isnt any grave distress she is showing. If you had married her, that would have been different to an extent, but you havent, you are not obliged and I say this morally from a cultural expectation. Not many people would criticise you for choosing to go no contact, regardless of anything else; even when considering the hurt you have experienced above that gets factored in.

to counteract the saying of "keeping a door open", theres another one that says "one door closes, a thousand open". but "closed" means just that. Thats my advice ditch and switch you owe yourself, you did what was reasonable, she has chosen someone else you owe her nothing, he does let him do the work he signed up for the package deal just like we did.

Thank you Cromwell, if theres one thing I know, you really know how to get the main point across.  I think that is the biggest problem, the more I try to tell myself that i’m over it, I come to square one because it really wasnt my fault. Sometimes things work and sometimes they don’t.  The perfect closure will never happen and thats my fantasy speaking. In my perfect closure, it would be like the movies but the truth is that boat has sailed. At this rate, it will be one of those dramatic movies where both people are fighting and no one wins.  I was so concentrated on making her happy I forgot about my own happiness. It’s like a part of me is still in the hopes that I could have been superman and thats wrong. Im slowly starting to believe it, its just that at times I have to question whether im doing the right thing. Its at times I even want to believe that she doesn’t have BPD and that things really have changed and shes a different person. I know it sounds stupid, but my thoughts have been spiraling because I can’t seem to understand the fact that I really am causing more harm by staying in her life. It’s almost as if im allowing her the upper hand telling her to finish the story. I agree, I think that its time for me, to close the door if she won’t do so. It’s only going to create more drama and that’s not the right thing to do. Her new potential partner should be the one handling things, superman’s got to go and rescue himself. Thank you Cromwell, for your straight forward advice. You’ve taught me a lot as well and thank you to everyone else.
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« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2018, 04:36:05 PM »

The perfect closure will never happen and thats my fantasy speaking. In my perfect closure, it would be like the movies but the truth is that boat has sailed.

What is the perfect closure?

Break-ups, divorces, getting fired, getting an F in geometry - these things are not generally honored by graceful endings. And if we are looking for grace, it might be best to just measure our own accomplishment.  In your case, Struggler123, you were very graceful. Wounded, yes, but you respected her right to the end.

That is perfect closure. 

How do you score her? What waa good? What was bad/

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« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2018, 04:36:25 PM »

Thank you to everyone for their input, and making me see through the words. As hard as it is to accept it, thats all the words are just words. Its like they say don’t make permanent decisions based on temporary feelings. At this point in time, I am weak and as Cromwell, WickerMan and Shawn said its at this point that we feel most vunerable. She contacted me again, yesterday, and just wanted to thank me for keeping the door open, I kept it mature as possible. But today, I do feel a bit stronger and hopefully little by little I can eventually go no contact. It’s either that or I can allow her to do it and then feel even worse. So its not really a plan, more of a pick the better option and go with that. It’s just hard at times accepting that none of it is true or real and that its always about her. Makes me kind of sad as well, to realize that I actually failed in helping her, I know its a bad kind of thinking but, I’ve always been driven by motivation and positive reinforcement and it was only when I felt some of the negative aspects that it drew back and made me realize that maybe this isn’t for me. Its like I know what I have to do but I just can’t come to terms with it. I know that no one can advise the perfect plan, but for those that responded if you were in my situation, what would you guys do? 


Failed helping her? Struggles you were her boyfriend not her doctor or therapist ! That feeling you get or have when you say that ,which I’m sure I and Crom and wickerman and others isn’t you failing her.That feeling unfortunately is us failing to have changed her into what we thought they should be.Honestly we were in the wrong not them ,they didn’t want to change ,we just hoped they did. I’ve come to realize the more time I’m away from her that frankly it’s just as simple as two people making mistakes .They wanted what they thought were saviors to help fix their emotional voids and we thought we could /should try fixing,changing them to our image of what we wanted .Two trains on the same track going towards each other  never ended well ,neither were our relationships.
My main mistakes that may indeed be what many of us did were :
1:trying to change her
2:changing myself for her
3: not actually seeing what she wanted instead I did exactly what every other guy did to her ,left her
4: I let my emotions lead me instead of just being the normal way I used to be before her and not let drama run me.
5: I almost encouraged her drama by participating

I’ll take full responsibility of my actions BUT I think the love bombing mirroring stage pulled me right out of my normal zone .A better more experienced man would have seen right through her s... .t tests and games and let it roll right off his shoulders .Honestly the better more experienced man would have and still be with her.I think these woman match this quote : she will continue to test you to break you ,because she wants an unbreakable man. Only regret isn’t that I didn’t save her because that’s not want she wanted ,the regret I have was I couldn’t be that better man she seeks .

I hope Struggles what I said helps you, but stop being upset you didn’t save her,better yourself brother and you will be an unstoppable force , maybe one day she will see this and wait for you not give you ultimatums.
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« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2018, 04:50:17 PM »

What is the perfect closure?

Break-ups, divorces, getting fired, getting an F in geometry - these things are not generally honored by graceful endings. And if we are looking for grace, it might be best to just measure our own accomplishment.  In your case, Struggler123, you were very graceful. Wounded, yes, but you respected her right to the end.

That is perfect closure. 

How do you score her? What waa good? What was bad/




Sometimes we just need someone to tell us that it’s gonna get better and we did the best we could. I’m glad that you cleared up a lot of misconceptions that I had. I think I was asking the wrong questions looking for the right answers. I think its time for me to realize that I did the best that I could, and it just didn’t work. Sometimes I feel like I’m performing the same experiment over and over again to get different results. Maybe in my head, I have this fantasy that if we tried again we could have came to a conclusion and it would have happily ever after. Is this the wrong kind of thinking surely, but sometimes we have to accept that we are wounded. But time heals all wounds right?



Failed helping her? Struggles you were her boyfriend not her doctor or therapist ! That feeling you get or have when you say that ,which I’m sure I and Crom and wickerman and others isn’t you failing her.That feeling unfortunately is us failing to have changed her into what we thought they should be.Honestly we were in the wrong not them ,they didn’t want to change ,we just hoped they did. I’ve come to realize the more time I’m away from her that frankly it’s just as simple as two people making mistakes .They wanted what they thought were saviors to help fix their emotional voids and we thought we could /should try fixing,changing them to our image of what we wanted .Two trains on the same track going towards each other  never ended well ,neither were our relationships.
My main mistakes that may indeed be what many of us did were :
1:trying to change her
2:changing myself for her
3: not actually seeing what she wanted instead I did exactly what every other guy did to her ,left her
4: I let my emotions lead me instead of just being the normal way I used to be before her and not let drama run me.
5: I almost encouraged her drama by participating

I’ll take full responsibility of my actions BUT I think the love bombing mirroring stage pulled me right out of my normal zone .A better more experienced man would have seen right through her s... .t tests and games and let it roll right off his shoulders .Honestly the better more experienced man would have and still be with her.I think these woman match this quote : she will continue to test you to break you ,because she wants an unbreakable man. Only regret isn’t that I didn’t save her because that’s not want she wanted ,the regret I have was I couldn’t be that better man she seeks .

I hope Struggles what I said helps you, but stop being upset you didn’t save her,better yourself brother and you will be an unstoppable force , maybe one day she will see this and wait for you not give you ultimatums.


Shawn, Thank you for all your kind words. There’s days I feel like i’m against this wall and the more I push the more I become squeezed between these two walls. The first wall is my heart and the other is my mind. It sounds weird I know, but thats what i’m trying to process. You are absoutely right, I couldnt be her therapist, doctor, I was just her boyfriend. My heroic tendecies really were the wrong thing to be put into kind of situation.  The analogy of the trains speaks my mind and heart. I can’t thank you enough for saying that, because thats what I needed to hear. It’s days like these, when I see missed calls from her and I question myself, and I return here and realize that it is for the best. You’re a good person Shawn, and I think you will agree when I say this, we do deserve better, but we can only get that when we correct our own flaws. I really need to work on my confidence as well, because I need to get out of this zone of weakness. It’s like my memory only remembers the good times and not the bad and ive blocked all of it out. The ultimatiums were what drove me away, and thank you for explaining that. I know change wont happen overnight but I really do want to stop blaming myself because the only person I can make better is myself, and I can only hope that in my next relationship, we’re both emotionally healthy.

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