My ex and I are talking again

[whiteknight4152]

It’s ok if you’re not strong enough at the moment, we’re not perfect and we all have our limits of what we can take.

In a sense you are right: it’s a form of rejection but it’s only because she needs it. She rejects you to accomplish the distance you won’t give her. I say this based on all your previous posts that showed that you have a hard time giving her space. My BPD once told me that she rejected me because she was hurting and the only way to deal with the hurt was hurting someone else (me). It’s not logical, it’s the disorder.

So you say you give her space but at the same time you keep sending her texts. Do you see that discrepancy?

My advice for now if you want it: leave her, let her come to you. Trust me I know how hard this is but it is the only solution. If you can’t deal with that, speak about it with your therapist. Practice on alleviating that anxiety within you which stems from your own childhood trauma as your therapist will also tell you.

She just texted me she got the plants I had sent her. “Just got the plants. Watering them now. Thank you.”
I said “hope you like it. You’re welcome.”

I know where it stems from. I lost my dad when I was 13. My fear of losing people is so great. I love my dad more than anything in this world. People tell me, you’ve been through much worse things than this you can get through it. But if I’m being honest, this situation hurts more than losing my father. And I loved him more than anything.

I will give her space. I’ll let my actions prove it. If you believe this is the right course of action, I’ll do whatever is necessary in my power to respect her, and love her when she needs/wants to be. This is not puppy love or anything like that, this woman means everything to me. I’ll do anything to have her in my arms again.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tomacini]

That was a good answer.

I wish you all the best and know that you are not alone. Take care

[once removed]

it was a good answer.

its backing way off. that lets the ice start to thaw. youre on better footing.

its not out of the woods so to speak... .this is something you will have to demonstrate consistently, and long term, but it can be done, and this is a good start.

i suspect the next big challenge will be the next time she reaches out, or when she returns your things. if you can be cool, not pursue/chase, and not react/be needy, i think it will really catch her off guard, and it will look strong and confident.

[whiteknight4152]

She responded “I do. Thank you” twice. I won’t respond
I’ll stay strong and listen to you all. I’ll do whatever I need to. Your help means everything to me.

[Tomacini]

That didn’t ask for a reply so you did good just leaving it at that.
It’s good that you post here on these boards, I noticed myself how helpful it is. By helping others, I also help myself.

Are you still seeing a therapist? If so, you can also discuss it with him/her. I’ve noticed I’m a changed man although sometimes I still display old behaviour but that’s ok.

[whiteknight4152]

That didn’t ask for a reply so you did good just leaving it at that.
It’s good that you post here on these boards, I noticed myself how helpful it is. By helping others, I also help myself.

Are you still seeing a therapist? If so, you can also discuss it with him/her. I’ve noticed I’m a changed man although sometimes I still display old behaviour but that’s ok.

I am, Ive seen her once, before me and her started taking again, then she took two months vacation so I won’t get to see her till the 6th.
Yes you are all more mature in these relationships than I. So I shouldn’t be going against your word even if I think it’s right. What’s crazy is, it I took my approach in confronting her about taking me off everything, dropping me when I left for work, ignoring me, then she’d probably just cut me off even more, maybe even paint me black. Since I listened to you all, and have her what she wants, she’s being cordial with me at the moment.

[Tomacini]

Cordial is a good starting point, let her initiate. Keep up the good work!

[once removed]

By helping others, I also help myself.

i want to second this too!

a lot of us have these habits. i have been the king of over pursuing. i learned a lot about myself here, and about healthier, more successful ways of coping. passing it on to others really helps keep me balanced and avoiding those old habits.

id definitely encourage you to get involved in the threads of others. there are many here in similar situations, and by helping them, things can really start to click for us, and change becomes more ingrained.

[whiteknight4152]

Found out my grandmother had a stroke. Texted her back and said “leaving in the moRning. Memaw had a stroke.” I only did this because she’d want to know and knows how close I am to her. She responded “I am sorry to hear that  (sad emoji)

I shouldn’t have, but she would’ve wanted to to know.

[whiteknight4152]

This morning from her-

I’ve thought a lot since you’ve been gone. And I’m not saying you were negative but it’s just never going to happen. I can’t ever look at you the same. Once you were disrespectful in the manner of just showing up- my feelings were forever altered. I can’t make myself feel anything. I destroyed everything I had with you. No it may not be fair. But it’s life. I wish you the best and I am glad you were apart of my life for those few months. But all I got is anxiety and anger around you.

(The “one time” she’s talking about when I showed up at the house to talk to her when we initially broke up and she completely ghosted me blocked me on everything and it was the only form of fashion to talk to her) I did not barge in, I did not use my key to the door, I knocked on the door just like any other person visiting would. And she’s using that and looking past EVERYTHING I have done for her, to justify her reasoning.

I responded, “I can’t take back what I did. I’m not the same person that disrespected your privacy. I’m not the same person I was yesterday. Boundaries will always be necessary. I adore you inside & out. Bare and raw. Flaws and all. I’d just like the pleasure of getting to know the K**** of today, and the K**** of the days that follow. Hopefully one day I can gain your respect back. I ask only for one more chance at this; starting at the ground floor just as the day I walked up to the woman of my dreams in nutr. class. I’ve done a lot of thinking as well. Before I left, I was conflicted with wanting you romantically in the present while I should’ve been concerned at building my friendship with you again first. I see that error. I most definitely see how that caused anxiety.
On my fathers grave, I will not rush/push any sort of relationship on you ever again unless you reach a point where you want me in that sense again.”


She responded, “I’m sorry. I just can’t anymore. I can’t force myself to see someone a certain way.“

I responded, “I respect all of your wishes. I will never force anything on you ever again. I understand.“


Is this really it? I don’t know what to do. Please help me out here. The connection we had, it doesn’t seem like it’d be this easy for either of us to throw away

[Tomacini]

Ok, I know exactly where you are at this moment. I’ve heard this countless times from my exBPDgf. It’s what they feel in that moment and since feelings are facts for them, it’s is the absolute truth for her forever and ever and ever until... .her feelings change again. It took me a lot of time to figure that out and just like you i would start to JADE (in your case: the very very long text you sent her back with more pleading and justifying, explaining,... .) Very understandable but useless with a BPD in a crisis. The best response would be: ok, I’m sorry to hear that. Get back to me when your feelings change.

You gotta admit, over the past few weeks you pushed her buttons quite a few times so that’s where it leads to.

What to do next? Nothing at all. If you decide to wait for her: wait until you hear from her.
What not do next? More pleading, justifying, explaining, defending, texting, going to her house... .to cut it short: don’t contact her

[whiteknight4152]

Were my responses to her bad? I thought I did pretty good in agreeing with her, respecting her wishes, and not JADE-ing or begging. So you don’t think it’s over? I mean she didn’t have any context whether she wanted to stop talking romantically, as best friends, or all together. I just want to do anything that is possible to win her back

[Tomacini]

Ok, maybe reread your texts in your previous posts and try to figure out where you used JADE.

I don’t know if it’s over, every individual is different but their emotions can shift rapidly or it can be totally over.

You ask us for advice but many of us have told you the same countless times: leave her be, let her come to you.

Look, I found this very helpful, it’s not specifically about BPD but women in general. Just look up on Google: coach Corey Wayne, the illusion of action.
Also: coach Corey Wayne, let women come to you
It’s a youtube video and quite enjoyable and insightful.

Mod note: Corey Wayne: Online Reputation, Independent Review https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=282814.0

[whiteknight4152]

Ok, maybe reread your texts in your previous posts and try to figure out where you used JADE.

I don’t know if it’s over, every individual is different but their emotions can shift rapidly or it can be totally over.

You ask us for advice but many of us have told you the same countless times: leave her be, let her come to you.

Look, I found this very helpful, it’s not specifically about BPD but women in general. Just look up on Google: coach Corey Wayne, the illusion of action.
Also: coach Corey Wayne, let women come to you
It’s a youtube video and quite enjoyable and insightful.

You’re right. I’m sorry guys I’m trying my best... I’ll look it up thank you

[once removed]

hi whiteknight,

i dont think your response was "bad". you didnt chase, or beg or plead, and thats good. you made a case for the relationship and asked for another chance, and when she said no, you said "okay".

in other words, you didnt make things worse, and your closing was strong and respectful.

going back to what i said previously, change is something that youre going to have to demonstrate consistently, and long term. backing off in the recent exchanges was good, but was not going to fix this over night. like Tomacini said, her buttons have been pushed for a while, and shes been at her wits end.

so i think things have been building up to this point for a while.

is it recoverable? it may be, it may not be. shes definitely blowing off steam. she feels really disrespected. i think you validated that, which was a good move.

often times, a person in her position feels bad after they blow off steam like that. they will tend to want a more gentle do over. it may be that she reaches out to you soon to have that conversation. it may not be. but you played a decent hand in order to facilitate that.

i strongly agree that the best move is to do absolutely nothing, directly or indirectly. dont reach out to her friends about this, dont post anything directed at her on social media, and dont contact her. give her space big time. this will communicate that you get the message, and truly respect her wishes and her space.

and looking ahead, if she does reach out, id bet money it will be in order to have a more gentle do over of that conversation. she will likely say something along the lines of "i feel bad about how i went about it, but thats how i feel". how you respond will be critical. the best card to play is to listen and validate her feelings, not argue them, not make promises to change, just listen, and reflect back what shes telling you. that will show her that you get it.

id really encourage you to read and reread our article on Listening With Empathy here: https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy

these are some of the key points:

Set Aside Personal Beliefs, Concerns and Agenda - Just for now, at least. Go into the conversation empty handed—with no personal expectations or goal of fixing anyone. Be willing to have your mind and perspective changed. Your only agenda is listening and trying to understand the other’s point of view.

Remove Ourselves / Gain Perspective - When you take things personally, you cannot separate yourself enough to feel the other person’s pain. Detach enough so that you are not in a emotionally heightened state— do not allowing the other person’s behavior to upset you or trigger you.

Be Present/ Be an Active Listener - Listen to the person in the moment, truly utilizing the skills of actively listening. Don't jump ahead, re-frame what they are saying and compare it to a personal experience you had, don't rush to project ahead, or to frame a response. When we do this we completely lose sight of the reason of our conversation in the first place, sharing information as a means to build, maintain and sustain the relationship.

[CryWolf]

 Hey man. I’m going to be blunt with you here.

Youre situation is very similar to mine. I was in the same boat as you. i pushed, because of my anxieties. I thought her wanting space Meant doom. Space is healthy. You need to love someone and let them feel free. Let them come and go in regards the feel safe. It’s hard to do that when you have anxiety and abandonment issues.

You need to give her space and let her come to you. I get it, you’re anxious and nervous and feel the “need” to do something. That’s how guys are. We are goal oriented and think with logic. If I do this then that occurs. If I don’t do this then this will occur, etc.

Watch Corey Wayne and Craig Kenneth videos. Educate yourself on attachment styles, learn yourself better and when you become anxious or fearful ask yourself why you’re feeling that way.

I dated a few girls after my BPD ex. I didn’t exhibit needy behaviors. They chased. One girl even left and came back after a few weeks. I tried so hrd not to reach out like I would with my ex.

I dated a girl recently.we had so much in common, my anxieties came back. I felt the need to do something. I didn’t exhibit a lot but I know to give her space and time to come back to me. I miss her and put a lot of pressure on the situation. Idk if she is ghosting me or actually busy or playing games.

But yes without hijacking,

The anxiety and fear is going to be immense. You might have cold sweats and nightmares about it. All you think about is her and create different scenarios. You might even obsess. But the best thing moving forward is being okay with what she’s wants although it isn’t what you want. This shows true respect and maturity. Life isnt like romance movies and chasing a girl and expressing love. This pushes someone away.

[whiteknight4152]

I’ll do whatever I need to do to win her back. Even if I don’t think it’s the best move, I will do whatever you all tell me to do because you have more experience than me in this department. I checked my Instagram and she even blocked me from her business Instagram... .I’ll im trying to do is respect her & her wishes

[once removed]

I’ll do whatever I need to do to win her back. Even if I don’t think it’s the best move, I will do whatever you all tell me to do

i hear and appreciate this sentiment. i recall when my ex dumped me, crying, and desperately pleading with, begging God to bring her back to me, that i would do anything, just please dont let this be the end. i dont think i have ever cried harder in my life.

im going to push you on this a bit, because i think its at the heart of the matter.

this "win her back" at any cost attitude. this idea that you will do whatever we tell you to do even if you dont think its the best move.

desperation is controlling you, and hindering you. its driven you to over pursue her despite her expressed wishes. its driving you now to take our advice without really seeing the big picture behind that advice. its not healthy. its no way to live. and if she came back tomorrow, it would still be holding you hostage.

i know that you love this woman with all of your heart. i also know she is not the be all end all source of your happiness. shes not a prize to be won. believing that she is is an attitude that doesnt respect her autonomy, or yours. its just a fantasy that ends in heartache.

not only are inner strength and confidence attractive, but they are ultimately what will help you navigate these turbulent waters, and to heal from the wounds youve detailed to us, which came long before her.

yes, strong men do reach out for support and advice when theyre emotionally flooded, because they have the self awareness that their emotions are ruling them and that feedback would be helpful. but they dont leap frog from event to event not knowing what to do, not knowing what they want to do, and just acting anxiously on impulse. theyre in touch with their values and boundaries, respectful of others values and boundaries, and they are guided by that. they can say "shes the object of my hearts desire and i love her, but i can live without her, and know that ill be okay without her. i can be cool with her needing space and i can give it, and as an independent human being i can ask for and take it if i need it myself.". they can self soothe their anxieties, and know that at the end of the day, whatever happens, theyre going to be okay, and take it to the bank.

this is at the heart of all of the advice youve been given. if you can master that attitude, tap into that inner strength and confidence, whatever happens with this girl, you will be the master of your world, more attractive to healthy others, more certain about what to do when crises happen, and weather this storm with confidence, in a healthy and centered manner.

I know where it stems from. I lost my dad when I was 13. My fear of losing people is so great. I love my dad more than anything in this world.

this is a huge emotional blow, whiteknight. i lost my dad about eight months ago at the age of 31 and it shook my entire world and identity, ive had to work very hard to grieve and to heal. at the age of 13, its all that and then much more... .our fathers are our earliest buddies, our mentors, so much of who we become comes from them. to lose that at such an age can shake all of it profoundly, and be so paralyzing.

if you want advice, the best advice i can give you is this:

1. join in on the threads of others. when we help others, its easier to identify how they are contributing to the problem(s), yet the advice we find ourselves giving, that we didnt even know we had, starts to become ingrained.

2. start a thread about your loss on the Parent/Sibling/Inlaw board, and shift your focus to that, start the healing work (you dont require a family member with BPD to post there... .the board is there to explore our childhoods and how they impact us). i can assure you that many members on that board can relate, and can help. dont stop there, start the grief work in therapy in your next session. make healing your number one priority.

[whiteknight4152]

You are both so right. In the last day, I’ve taken my phone and it on do not disturb and haven’t talked to anyone. I know this may hurt some people, but i had to step away from all of it, people, social media, etc. at the moment I’m only talking to you all. I feel better than I have in the last 10 months by doing for this. I’ve been thinking very hard on my drive home in solitude. Knowing that if we are meant to be , we WILL be. That is comforting and exilirating in my book. If fate has it she comes back to me, she WILL. I believe that. I have been watching Corey Wayne’s videos and they scream truth, and the mistakes I’ve made before taking your advice. I just arrived home, I’m going to continue to stay solitude away from everybody and social media for a while longer. I need to emotionally recharge. I’m going to see two of my close friends tonight since I’ve been gone for a month to catch up with them, since I don’t want to be on my phone.Hopefully my actions speak loudly enough to her.

[pearlsw]

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