Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
September 26, 2021, 01:54:26 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Harri, Once Removed
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, I Am Redeemed, Mutt, Turkish
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Experts share their discoveries [video]
100
Caretaking - What is it all about?
Margalis Fjelstad, PhD
Blame - why we do it?
Brené Brown, PhD
Family dynamics matter.
Alan Fruzzetti, PhD
A perspective on BPD
Ivan Spielberg, PhD
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: He feels better, so he wants to move back...  (Read 4011 times)
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« on: July 02, 2018, 10:08:38 PM »

The backstory clif's notes version: married 28 years to uBPDh - mostly had a difficult relationship, but I didn't put all the "difficulties" together until 5 years ago. H had a serious dysregulation episode back at the end of February. He quit his part time job at his church, saying that he was going to work on our marriage. When I asked him about it, he said at the time that he wanted a divorce and was moving out. He also felt like he was going to hurt himself, me, or our daughter. I realized that I was triggering his guilt and shame. He moved out, went to a therapist for a couple of months, until he felt better.

Currently, his roommate is going to be moving out in a couple of months. H and I met for coffee this weekend, and I asked him what his plans are after his roommate moves out. He said he would like to move back home, but he wasn't going to go somewhere that he wasn't wanted. (he felt like he wasn't wanted when he moved out) He also said that he would like us to live somewhere else because of the mold problem in our house - and thinks that we could probably afford a place without mold since he has managed to pay the bills for both the apartments.

Since he moved out, I was able to get medical insurance and have been trying to get caught up on all the things that were not available to my daughter and me before. He wasn't paying for our health insurance - he only had it. My working was a huge trigger for him, so I didn't have any way to access medical care for years. Our daughter is in counseling (or I and her counselor are trying to get her to engage). She still needs dental work and glasses.

I have also been providing our food and clothing, gas, household items, and paying bills, including childcare. Clothing has been rather high because we didn't usually 'have money' to buy clothing for the kids or me.

Now, he wants nothing to do with the church or Christians. I continue to be involved in my church.

I feel anxious about him moving back; I can't be in a position where I am responsible for his feelings. My daughter and I are trying to get healthy. I don't trust him to be there when I need him to be because he has betrayed my trust many times.

I will need to tell him that I don't want him to move back, and I'm not sure what the best way to do that is. I can't go full no contact (due to having d14 at home) and have been fairly low contact since he moved out.
Logged
Turkish
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned in Feb 2013.
Posts: 11128


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2018, 10:28:37 PM »

The backstory clif's notes version: married 28 years to uBPDh - mostly had a difficult relationship, but I didn't put all the "difficulties" together until 5 years ago. H had a serious dysregulation episode back at the end of February. He quit his part time job at his church, saying that he was going to work on our marriage. When I asked him about it, he said at the time that he wanted a divorce and was moving out. He also felt like he was going to hurt himself, me, or our daughter. I realized that I was triggering his guilt and shame. He moved out, went to a therapist for a couple of months, until he felt better.

You and your daughter being safe are paramount. In glad that you took him at his word. Short of any major therapy or change,  this is a major concern. 

Currently, his roommate is going to be moving out in a couple of months. H and I met for coffee this weekend, and I asked him what his plans are after his roommate moves out. He said he would like to move back home, but he wasn't going to go somewhere that he wasn't wanted. (he felt like he wasn't wanted when he moved out) He also said that he would like us to live somewhere else because of the mold problem in our house - and thinks that we could probably afford a place without mold since he has managed to pay the bills for both the apartments.

He's telegraphing that you need to be responsible for his feelings.  Even emphasizing with his feelings,  I would take them as sincere, how I would take this is,  "I'll return as long as I feel wanted,  but when I don't feel wanted,  I'll repeat my dysfunctional coping mechanisms that resulted in I moving out in the first place, little consideration of yours or our daughter's feelings or safety."

You and your daughter are safe. You've been able to do not only that,  but provide for your daughter medically where you weren't able to do previously. He also seems to have walked away from your faith.

The mission here is to preserve families, first and foremost,  yet everyone needs to be safe.  Would you feel so if you let him move back?

My ex asked to move back three years after she left.  It was tempting on a few levels to say yes.  Yet ultimately I decided no.  Our family, even split between two households, is still preserved, even if the kids would love nothing else than for us to all be in the same home again.  That isn't their choice,  and it wasn't hers.  It was mine.  Similarly,  it is yours. 

What do you think?
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2018, 01:40:43 AM »

I will need to tell him that I don't want him to move back, and I'm not sure what the best way to do that is. I can't go full no contact (due to having d14 at home) and have been fairly low contact since he moved out.

I'm impressed with how you've adapted to him leaving, found work, and supported yourself and your daughter.  I'm also impressed with your sense of boundaries in not wanting him to just walk back in when nothing has changed. 

How did you respond when he said he wanted to move back in?  How did you leave it with him?

WW
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2018, 08:26:16 PM »

Excerpt
You and your daughter being safe are paramount. In glad that you took him at his word. Short of any major therapy or change,  this is a major concern.

Safety for all of us has been a big factor behind many of my choices for quite a while. I decided that he was making the safest choice he could at the moment. I agree, major therapy is needed as well as change.

Excerpt
He's telegraphing that you need to be responsible for his feelings.

That was the impression that I had afterward. Fundamentally, he doesn't feel wanted; nothing I can do to make him feel otherwise. He has even said that he has attachment issues... .  Now, he has turned his anger and rejection toward the church. Same song, different verse. He has abandoned friends, the church, and our family at critical times.

Excerpt
The mission here is to preserve families, first and foremost,  yet everyone needs to be safe.  Would you feel so if you let him move back?

We wouldn't feel safe with him back.
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2018, 08:49:43 PM »

Excerpt
How did you respond when he said he wanted to move back in?  How did you leave it with him?

I gave kind of a bland response. He understood that I wasn't committing to anything and said 'pray about it'.

Excerpt
I'm impressed with how you've adapted to him leaving, found work, and supported yourself and your daughter.  I'm also impressed with your sense of boundaries in not wanting him to just walk back in when nothing has changed.


Truth be told, I had been getting training in a new field and was about to start an internship when he needed to leave. I was considering my options for living situations at the time because he has a history of being really unsupportive when I work outside the home. I've been getting myself healthy for a few years; I've had a lot of help in that process.
Logged
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2018, 09:05:00 PM »

You said you need to tell him you don't want him to move back in, and need to figure out how to do it.  I can imagine that task being difficult for a variety of reasons.  What makes it difficult for you?

WW
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2018, 09:24:36 PM »

I suppose a big part of the difficulty is that the real reason that I don't want him to move back is he hasn't changed even though he thinks he has (he feels better after all). He hasn't worked on rebuilding trust by keeping his word. That seems invalidating. I also don't want to make it seem as if he needs to do a specific set of actions to get back; he could manipulate that. Triggering more guilt and shame is not something that I want either.
Logged
Turkish
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned in Feb 2013.
Posts: 11128


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2018, 09:54:54 PM »

My T told me,  "personalities typically don't change." His issues seem to be deeply held beliefs at his core rather than a few behaviors which could be worked upon.  My ex told me before she left that she thought she had an attachment disorder (Yay Google  )

I knew better than to respond by that point. 
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
crushedagain
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 274


« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2018, 10:18:16 PM »

The fact that he said he felt he might hurt himself, you or your daughter is extremely frightening. That statement alone shows a desperate need for professional help. I can't imagine feeling like I wanted to hurt other people, especially my closest loved ones. That's really scary.
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2018, 10:38:31 PM »

He told me that his therapist said he was emotionally unstable on a personality level. More minimal response. He didn't seem to have a clue as to what that really meant, probably the reason that she used that kind of terminology.

At least, I'm not taken by surprise by his reactions any more. And, he has either called or texted for the past 5 days in a row. I haven't answered for the most part.

Logged
Turkish
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned in Feb 2013.
Posts: 11128


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2018, 10:46:44 PM »

BIFF and neutral responses are good.  

2.03 | B.I.F.F. Technique for Communications

and

2.11 | Responding to Hostile Email After the Divorce

You may have seen these being here a while.  

Together or apart, hopefully he'll get help in order to be safe with you and your daughter.  
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2018, 11:46:36 PM »

I'm sorry if you've said this on other threads, but where are you thinking of going with the relationship?  Are you thinking of divorce?  Reconciliation?  Buying some time to build your strength before deciding what to do?  No pressure meant with th question; having the background on your intent if you can share helps us understand your situation.

WW
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2018, 12:43:01 PM »

Turkish, I have read the BIFF articles and have the book by Bill Eddy. It's been very helpful when responding to people who create high conflict. For the past 3.5 years, I have encouraged h to get help because I knew that it would continue to get worse unless he did. He was doing a minimal amount of things for a while and has mostly rejected the offers of help that he has received.

WW, I think that there are too many costs to reconciliation. So, I'm building strength and thinking of divorce.
Logged
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2018, 05:58:43 PM »

WW, I think that there are too many costs to reconciliation. So, I'm building strength and thinking of divorce.

Have you read Bill Eddy's book, Splitting, yet?

What kind of relationship does your husband have with your daughter?  Does he get time with her?  Is there potential for improvement there?

WW
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2018, 08:13:12 PM »

WW, yes, I've read Splitting, too.

There is lots of room for improvement in his relationship with our daughter. He doesn't have scheduled time with her right now, by his choice. He has a history of physical and emotional abuse as well as neglect with her. He has not been an involved parent in general. They both seem okay with their relationship as it stands.

He also has chosen work that doesn't give him normal work hours; his schedule changes every 4 weeks.
Logged
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2018, 09:48:39 PM »

What do you think about the opportunities for improvement in his relationship with her?  Do you see any opportunities to encourage more contact, consistent with safety?  Has there been any counseling help to assess their relationship?  How often do they see each other?

I suppose a big part of the difficulty is that the real reason that I don't want him to move back is he hasn't changed even though he thinks he has (he feels better after all). He hasn't worked on rebuilding trust by keeping his word. That seems invalidating. I also don't want to make it seem as if he needs to do a specific set of actions to get back; he could manipulate that. Triggering more guilt and shame is not something that I want either.

Thanks for taking the time to answer all the questions.  I didn't forget your original question!  You're correct to realize that any focus on him may be invalidating or trigger guilt and shame.  It's admirable that you are able to set boundaries for yourself, yet want to be compassionate and low conflict about it.  The best way to handle it might be to focus on yourself.  Say you're not ready, or whatever feels most appropriate. 

One potential issue with just talking about yourself is that the other person may not fully believe you, or may then have an expectation that you'll sort yourself out and all will be good later.  One way to add more authenticity and more of the truth about the full situation is to use "I statements."   You can look up and read about "I statements."  You can start with a statement about him that has "you" in it, and work on it on your own beforehand to turn it around to an "I statement" that places the focus on you but says what you need to say.  Have you heard about "I statements" before?

WW
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2018, 12:03:36 AM »

As far as his relationship with her, he has been taking her to her conditioning practice once a week. It's about an hour commitment on his part, and he says that's about all he can do because of his schedule. I asked him if he could do it and he agreed.

She is in counseling but so far has been uncooperative with her counselor. (she says she is fine and really doesn't want to cry... .) There hasn't been any assessment of their relationship, yet.


I'm well versed in "I statements"; they are my normal way of communicating. Using them doesn't necessarily mean that they are understood in the same way that I say them, even if in the moment, understanding seems good.
Logged
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2018, 12:39:56 AM »

I imagine that may be hard to see him with just a small relationship with your daughter, but know that there's a limit to what he's capable of.  It also sounds tough as a parent to know that she must have feelings inside that are hard to talk about, but hasn't been able to open up to the counselor.  How long has she been seeing the counselor?

Yes, I hear what you're saying on the "I statements."  It sounds like you know how to handle the conversation with him, but are really not looking forward to it, and understandably so.  Would you like more help thinking about what to say to him?  Perhaps some other members will join us.  Do you have an idea of how soon you want/need to have the conversation?

WW
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2018, 07:09:43 PM »

It is hard to see such a small relationship with our kids, especially because I had a pretty good relationship with my dad. At the same time, I'm okay with it because it also limits the negative effects. She has only seen the counselor a couple of times by herself.

His roommate is here until at least mid/late August; he is in a training program this summer. So I had asked h what his plans were for after roommate moves out. H also rented an apartment on a 3 month lease toward the beginning of March, so I'm thinking that he may have signed another one in June and his lease might be up at the end of August. (I haven't checked on that, though)

I would appreciate more help thinking through what to say to him.
Logged
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2018, 07:51:34 PM »

I would appreciate more help thinking through what to say to him.

OK, we can help with that.  First a couple of questions will help with context.  You said you were thinking of building your strength towards a divorce.  What is the timeline for that?  What sets the timeline -- emotional journey, financial independence goals, other factors?

WW
Logged
Mustbeabetterway
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 633


« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2018, 08:05:53 PM »

Hi empath,

So sorry you are struggling with this not knowing what to say problem.  I can totally relate.  I also understand what you mean when you don't want to outline a set of actions that he should take to move back in.  I have tried to avoid that, too.  In the past, I had set up conditions, he said he would do these things, but didn't follow through. 

In thinking about why I have accepted unacceptable behavior during my marriage, I have been learning a lot about codependency.  I read that part of the problem with codependent relationships is ineffective, dishonest or problem communication.  It never occurred to me that this was a problem, but when I thought hard about it, I realized it was.  My throat even constricts just thinking about telling him my true thing thoughts and feelings.  Is communicating your wants and needs a problem for you?

I am able to communicate pretty well in my job, with friends and in life in general.  The trouble is that with my husband, I weigh everything I say.  I don't want my words to upset him, be misunderstood or twisted and used against me.  I had gotten to the point where I basically said yes, no, uh huh because I was just exhausted.  Do you have trouble telling him things he doesn't want to hear ?

I am working on knowing what I need expressing it.  It's difficult.  Often, my husband would be demanding for me to answer his questions or explain myself.  That would cause me a lot of anxiety.  My mind would race.

Recently, my husband was demanding, and i mean demanding, by text and phone calls to know why I hadn't engaged an attorney.  I felt extremely anxious, I just didn't want to actually say what I felt. I wasn't even sure what I felt.  But, I did search myself and later wrote an email.  I sat on the email for 24 hours, reread it, edited it and then sent it. 

I made sure it was truly how I felt without focusing on if I say this, he will think that, etc.  I expressed how important the relationship had always been to me.  How This was such a difficult decision and this was the biggest reason I had not engaged an attorney.   Then I outlined the ways that he had treated me that I would never accept or even potentially expose myself to (a boundary).   

I accepted responsibility for making things worse at times and not being everything he needed me to be.  In the end I wished him the best and I truly mean it.

It felt good to be authentic.  To finally express how I felt.

I don't know if this is the problem for you, but it may help to think about what you truly want for yourself and for your family and this will help you ultimately communicate your needs, wants, boundaries. 

Take care,

Mustbeabetterway
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2018, 08:54:36 PM »

WW, it is mainly financial independence goals; that is the one that is more difficult to determine the timeline for divorce. I'm actively engaged in that process, and it is taking much longer than I had hoped. It may be that I am not able to be where I desire to be before a divorce needs to happen, and I'm coming to acceptance of that possibility.

Mustbe, I've been communicating fairly effectively with him - part of the 'issue' that led to him leaving was that he was very aware of his actions and how they have impacted our relationship. He also 'twisted' my words (correctly understood in the moment) into something opposite. I had to pull back to email communication to find out what the problem was.

These days, I limit the needs that I express to concrete things. Just yesterday, he was going to get me a drink at a coffee house. I communicated what I wanted verbally on the phone and in text. He came with a couple of drinks that were not what I said. He went back and called me while he was there, I coached him through. It makes him anxious.
Logged
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2018, 10:03:29 PM »

Mustbe, wow, how well said!  I have absolutely fallen into that trap many times -- not saying what I really thought or felt for fear of how my wife would react.

empath, OK, so it sounds like the date is far enough out that it could be a while.  Here's a thought -- how about if you write a few sentences here of what you'd say to him, and we'll give you feedback?  A totally clean delivery will likely focus on you, and less on him, and also not provide any carrots about moving back in in the future.  For example, if we're sticklers, "I'm not ready for you to move in" could be taken to imply that you may someday be ready.  It's not a bad answer though.

Let me back up, though, and consider Mustbe's perspective.  What would be horrible about being totally honest with him?  You don't have to be brutal, just pick a couple of the most important reasons you don't want him to move in.  Perhaps you could put it in S.E.T. (Support, Empathy, Truth) format.  While the truth might be uncomfortable or upsetting for him, why should you be burdened with hiding the truth, and doesn't he deserve to hear the truth?  I'm not intending to lean on you here, just to open a discussion.  Let us know what you think.

WW
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2018, 12:10:15 AM »

WW, sometimes, it's easier to not say anything than it is to say what is necessary and try to walk through the minefield of emotions.

I think, fundamentally, I don't trust him. There are examples of abandonment, betrayal, and lies. I've told him that before, too, and I've talked with others about my lack of trust with him. The interesting thing is that he managed to betray everyone who he turned to for help with our marriage, so now, I'm not the only one saying it.
Logged
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2018, 12:29:14 AM »

I certainly agree that it's easier not to say anything than to say what's necessary!  In fact I lost track of how many times I did that.  I'm not sure it was always the best call.  But it's not a tool I would have given up cold turkey   Only you can decide what's best for this situation.

How do you feel about his emotions?  When you see that minefield of emotions, what's your reaction?

WW
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2018, 09:40:53 PM »

When I see the minefield, I take a deep breath and let it out slowly, usually knowing that I have to go through it but it's going to take a long time to get through it. Sometimes, I don't actually have time to help with the minefield - then, I have reminded him that he has other people that he can talk to about his feelings and spoken my truth. One of the crazy things about BPD is that a supportive statement can be twisted into invalidation... . 

I'm applying for employment during this time, too, so I've received a number of rejection responses. Sometimes, they will say that they are going in a different direction... .  Smiling (click to insert in post)
Logged
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2018, 09:48:44 PM »

It sounds like you're doing a great job of being mindful when you feel his emotions coming on, making a deliberate choice about whether to move ahead or deflect, rather than reflexively doing one or the other.

I'm applying for employment during this time, too, so I've received a number of rejection responses. Sometimes, they will say that they are going in a different direction... .  Smiling (click to insert in post)

My sense of board decorum prevents me from riffing on all the employment-inspired things you could say, or referring to a Paul Simon song 

I'm sorry to hear about the rejections.  Are you returning to the workforce after an absence?  Or upgrading or switching fields?

WW
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2018, 01:30:10 PM »

Thanks for the comments. Between detached contact, mindfulness, and good education about BPD tendencies, I've been okay with our contact.

I have a good friend who loves Paul Simon's music.

I suppose I'm both returning to the work field after a long absence and switching fields. I realized a few years back that I needed to switch fields at least for the near term so that I might be able to support myself and d14.
Logged
Harley Quinn
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2838


I am exactly where I need to be, right now.


« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2018, 07:23:46 PM »

Empath, I just want to say how impressed I am with what you've managed to achieve!  I think this speaks to your ability to get things done when the chips are down.  How are you currently feeling about telling him your decision?  I can imagine it will be a relief to have it said. 

Love and light x 
Logged

We are stars wrapped in skin.  The light you are looking for has always been within.
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2018, 05:43:16 PM »

Thanks for the encouragement; it's good to hear what others are seeing.

I'm feeling apprehensive about telling him my decision; at the same time, I know that I need to do what is best for all of us. One of the recurring themes and passions in my life is health and wholeness. I have a sense that this is the path toward that for all of us and that it is not going to feel like health to h when I tell him or afterward.
Logged
Harley Quinn
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2838


I am exactly where I need to be, right now.


« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2018, 06:19:14 PM »

I read somewhere today the following, which is something I have preached far and wide amongst friends and loved ones for a long time now:  If your goals do not scare you, they are not big enough

Doing what is right and best for the long term often brings with it discomfort in the present.  How worth it is it to you?  From what I've read of your journey, it sounds like very.  You can handle this empath.  Temporary pain for long term gain.  How lasting and damaging a reaction do you expect?  What support can you gather around yourself to ease that?

Is it possible that the feelings of 'finality' are also somewhere deep down holding you back a little?  That's natural and I can relate.  Others will too.

Love and light x
Logged

We are stars wrapped in skin.  The light you are looking for has always been within.
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2018, 07:21:08 PM »

HQ, it is very much worth it to me. I have been developing my support system for a while now, so I have a group of people around me who know what is going on. Honestly, I don't know what to expect since h has distanced himself from the people who were pushing him to be vindictive and entitled. He doesn't have as much of an image to maintain now, though. His typical reaction is to withdraw.

There are definitely feelings of 'finality' that make it harder. I'm sad that he still can't quite turn toward a relationship with me or the kids. He called today and was wondering how much longer he would have to take our daughter to her workout.
Logged
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2018, 02:11:09 AM »

That's good news that he's distanced himself from people encouraging him to be vindictive and entitled.

You've got D14 I know, but you said "kids."  Do you have older kids?

Hmmm... .so he asked how much longer he'd have to give her a ride, as if it's a chore?  That struck a chord with me, as my two older teenagers don't understand my wife's DV and are living with her, so giving them rides is almost the only time I see them.  I would gladly give them rides all over town, every day.

WW
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2018, 11:51:47 AM »

We have 2 older kids: s26 and d22. Our son is married, and they have a baby who was born very prematurely. Our daughter is finishing up her undergrad at a local university and working full time; she moved out a little over a year ago.

Excerpt
Hmmm... .so he asked how much longer he'd have to give her a ride, as if it's a chore?

A chore is a good way to describe it. I was going to let him continue as long as he wanted because I thought it was a good opportunity for him to at least have some regular contact with her. I know a lot of men would love to have the chance to spend more time with their kids.
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2018, 10:07:37 PM »

So, I'm thinking more about how to go about telling h that I don't want him to move back in. There doesn't seem any way to really 'support' or empathize in this situation, so maybe a BIFF format would be better for it.
Logged
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2018, 10:44:35 PM »

Congrats on launching two!  We also have three, with the first two closely spaced and recently launched and #3 several more years behind.

So, I'm thinking more about how to go about telling h that I don't want him to move back in. There doesn't seem any way to really 'support' or empathize in this situation, so maybe a BIFF format would be better for it.

BIFF sounds like a good plan.  Feel free to run it through with us if you like.

WW
Logged
Mustbeabetterway
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 633


« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2018, 08:23:57 AM »

empath, it does sound like BIFF sounds like an effective format for what you are trying to accomplish. 

I'm sorry for all the hurt you have been through.  You seem to be keeping a clear head even through very difficult times.  How are you feeling? 

I can certainly empathize with the sadness you are feeling with the finality of telling your husband that he cannot return.  I am dealing with the same type of sadness at the end of my relationship.  But you seem resolute in your decision, so that must give you confidence to move forward.

We are rooting for you!

Mustbeabetterway
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2018, 07:32:54 PM »

I do feel some sadness about the situation, grief of the losses and the change in the nature of our relationship. I have a good friend who I met with - she experienced the mental health issues and abuse in her first marriage. It helps to have someone IRL who knows the situation and is realistic about it and about the risks.

Between the public nature of his leaving and my support system after I told them the reality of what he was planning, it might be easier for me. I don't want to cover over his actions. It's also been much better for my daughter and me since he has been gone.

The other thing is that we would lose our ability to have health insurance if he were to come back. He doesn't pay for that for us.
Logged
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2018, 09:42:34 PM »

I am sorry for the sadness and grief.  I'm only just beginning to understand it in my situation.  Do you have a timeline for when you are going to tell him?

WW
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2018, 10:34:10 PM »

On the h front, he keeps asking us to have dinner with him. I got a call this evening where he suggested that he could come with us to a free movie night... . I said I wasn't sure whether we were going to the movie - we might not be able to make it. I didn't tell him that d has a required sporting event earlier that evening and we aren't sure how long it will take.  

Sometimes, I just want to say go.away.

I think I might need to tell him sooner than I originally thought.
Logged
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2018, 11:09:48 AM »

What are your thoughts on his interest in dinner and the movie night?  Might these be seen as a healthy interest in spending time with his daughter?  It sounds like you are not comfortable, though.  Can you elaborate?

Is the sporting event something a dad might enjoy being at?  Would your daughter welcome him being there?

WW
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2018, 12:42:47 PM »

My thoughts on his interest in dinner - his roommate is gone a lot these days or is just unavailable. H has said that he is really lonely lately, and his requests have a needy quality to them. He wants the outward appearance of a relationship without the obligations, and to him, working on the relationship means inviting me to go out. Going to dinner is one of the criteria by which he judges our relationship - the other is going for walks. (and probably if I pushed, going to church together - but he isn't doing that right now)

His primary interest is in seeing me; our daughter is an add on. I don't want to give him the impression that 'things are going well' and then tell him that he can't move back. I try to be as consistent as I can with him.

As far as the sporting event, they are setting up for their practices. Our daughter wouldn't really welcome him being there; it would be awkward for her.
Logged
Harley Quinn
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2838


I am exactly where I need to be, right now.


« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2018, 01:37:03 PM »

His primary interest is in seeing me; our daughter is an add on. I don't want to give him the impression that 'things are going well' and then tell him that he can't move back. I try to be as consistent as I can with him.

It must be difficult for you to think of him considering your daughter as secondary.  Right now I'm sure that it would help you to feel better about things to know that he values seeing her and wants to build a better relationship with her as a priority. 

It sounds like a wise decision to keep things consistent if you are planning to say he cannot come back home.  This makes sense to me that he could view it as mixed signals and have a worse reaction to the news.  Have you decided how you're going to approach broaching this and when?  Do you have anything to plan around or finalise before this happens?  We're all behind you in doing what is best for you and your daughter.   

Love and light x 
Logged

We are stars wrapped in skin.  The light you are looking for has always been within.
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #43 on: July 29, 2018, 08:48:37 PM »

I understand your reluctance to do dinner if it feels like he is just trying to get to you, and you are concerned about sending mixed signals.  Notwithstanding your doubts about his motivations, he'd still be missing a chance to see his daughter.  It's important to her well being to have the strongest possible bond with him, even if he is far from perfect, and even if she seems disinterested now.  Years later, it will matter.  Could you set expectations with him about a dinner?  Say that you want him to have time with her?  Something like, "Honestly, with the way things are between us I'm not feeling much like dinner, but it's important to me that you be able to spend time with our daughter."  What about suggesting instead that he dine just with her?  Would they be able to have a good dinner?

WW
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2018, 02:50:30 PM »

They wouldn't be able to have a good dinner. She is processing his past abusiveness and neglect toward her; that makes it difficult for her. It is easier when I am with them, kind of mediating their relationship.

So, I'm concerned that they do have some contact. This weekend, I was willing to go to dinner with him and our daughter - but he wasn't able to. Her availability is limited starting this week due to her practice schedule.

I was talking with him yesterday about his roommate's situation. I found out that their lease is up in September, and his roommate may have a different place to live by then. Afterward, I thought maybe I could say something like we need to think of this separation as a long term situation.
Logged
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2018, 12:13:24 AM »

That's great that you are trying to facilitate their relationship -- it's good for her.  Yes, teenagers are pretty hard to coordinate schedules with, especially if they are into sports!

Being up front with him that you are looking at the separation as long term seems like a good idea.  Do you think he'll dig and ask if you want a divorce, or will he skip past the uncomfortable part and try not to think about what you've said?

WW
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2018, 01:51:53 PM »

I think he would rather just skip the uncomfortable part - I think that's why he wants to move back. I don't think he will ask whether I want a divorce. The more uncomfortable part for him right now is the prospect of living by himself (and planning for the future and following through is not really something that he does much).

Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2018, 07:44:53 PM »

Yesterday, h came over to let me know that he had paid the rent. He seemed like he wanted to talk for a longer time and asked if d and I wanted to have dinner with him, but I was in the middle of something at the time. He sent an email asking about moving back. In the meantime, I texted him saying that we could have dinner with him that evening, and we did.

This afternoon, I replied to his email saying that I thought of our separation as long term and that I knew that there were practical considerations for all of us right now.

He just responded that he knew in his "heart of hearts" that it was too soon.

So far, so good. Who know what will happen when the reality of the situation hits him, though.

Honestly, it was soo tempting to give more information than was really necessary.
Logged
Mustbeabetterway
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 633


« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2018, 09:09:41 PM »

Hi empath,

Good for you.  Sounds like you are holding your boundaries but keeping communication open which seems to be a good choice.  I’m glad that things are going smoothly.

Peace and blessings,

Mustbe
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2018, 05:46:32 PM »

Thanks, Mustbe. It feels like threading a needle sometimes with holding the boundaries and open communication.

I haven't heard from him again since the email Sat afternoon; he has been calling Sunday after church. On one hand, it would be completely understandable for him to not want to talk to me. On the other hand, the silence is a bit concerning. When he moved out, he had a dramatic post on fb and told people not to ask. Of course, they contacted me.
Logged
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #50 on: August 07, 2018, 12:54:42 AM »

I totally get how reflexive it is to worry about your pwBPD's state and what they might do next.  Try to just breath and focus on what you've got going on.

How was dinner?  Was he able to have good interaction with your daughter?

WW
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #51 on: August 07, 2018, 01:07:53 PM »

Thanks WW. I've been trying to breathe, be mindful of my actions and wait it out.

Dinner was good. He was able to talk with our daughter about school and her activities.
Logged
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #52 on: August 07, 2018, 06:30:09 PM »

Dinner was good. He was able to talk with our daughter about school and her activities.

Glad to hear it!

A while back, you said you were about to start an internship when your husband left.  Did you start it?  You also mentioned that your plan was to build your strength and you were thinking about divorce.  It sounds like you've been doing a lot of personal healing in the last few years, and have gotten help with that.  What are your plans and what milestones are ahead of you on your path to financial and emotional recovery?

WW
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #53 on: August 08, 2018, 04:04:56 PM »

My internship began about 3 weeks after my h left, and it ended a couple weeks ago. I've been working with our local workforce center to get training and experience to enter a new field. Unfortunately, the work that I have been training to do requires experience, so I have a team of folks trying to help with that. It's not looking promising at the moment though. I'm applying for positions and trying to find something that would bring in some income and be satisfying on a personal level.

My emotional recovery is farther along. I'm doing a lot of reading in subjects that I'm passionate about and doing things that I want to do. I have some creative thoughts about future possibilities.
Logged
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2018, 12:58:08 AM »

Congratulations on finishing the internship!  I'm glad to hear that you have support with the next steps, and am glad to hear of the progress with your emotional healing.

What are the things that would need to happen for you to be ready to move ahead with a divorce?

WW
Logged
empath
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 848


« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2018, 03:39:35 PM »

I really want to have a job and a place to live (that h isn't paying for and isn't on the lease) before starting the divorce process. I don't feel safe moving ahead right now because h still has access to the house and has come over unannounced while I was out. He took some things from the house including some belonging to d14 without asking.

Last night, he posted something on fb about the pursuer/avoider dynamic in marriages. It was based on attachment styles, so I was reading up on the different styles: secure, pursuer, avoider, and disorganized (both pursue and avoid; the push - pull dynamic). Some of the articles that I read said that people with a disorganized style tend to be abusive and dangerous.

I thought that might be an alternative way to describe what has happened in our relationship, at least to people who are more knowledgeable about such things.
Logged
Radcliff
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3377


Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #56 on: August 21, 2018, 06:12:17 PM »

I can definitely relate to wanting a safe space.  If you could click your heels three times and magically be in an apartment tomorrow with only your name on the lease, would you be ready to file?  Where would you say you are on the five stages of Detachment (see right-hand sidebar)?

WW
Logged
once removed
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 12017



« Reply #57 on: August 25, 2018, 01:54:38 PM »

Staff only

This thread has reached its post limit and has been locked. The discussion has been continued here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=328603.0
Logged

     and I think it's gonna be all right; yeah; the worst is over now; the mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball…
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2021?

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2021 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
Andi1956
Anondad
Cnvi
doghouse
drained1996
EyesUp
Harri
JD2028
lovenature
Mac5
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
old97
P.F.Change
Skip
snowglobe
Swimmy55
Teno
Turkish
wendydarling

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!