spirituality and faith

[Educated_Guess]

I'm curious about how your faith has helped you through life.  Does anyone have any stories to share about how your faith helped to sustain you or to see things more clearly?

I identify as Christian but am interested in all religions and find truth and solace in them.  This is not to debate the merits of different religions/traditions but just to share the truth that we find there.

I'll share something that helped me.  During the breakup and aftermath, I kept coming back to lines in 1 Corinthians 13.

4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never ends.

The first thing that these verses helped me to realize was that my BPD ex did not love me because her actions were not the actions of love.  She still told me that she loved me and I wanted to believe that. But she was not patient or kind; she wanted to punish me.  She wanted me to carry all the blame even though the burden was not all mine to bear.  She resented me.  She went on at length about all of the wrong that I had done.  When the truth was spoken, she responded with rage.  She did not believe in me, she had no hope and she did not endure.

These verses helped me to see the gap between the love she still claimed that she had for me and her actual behavior.  It made me realize that she didn't have love for me, only need.  When I didn't meet her needs any more, what she claimed to be love ended.  But it was probably never love to begin with.

Another thing that these verses helped me with is how I responded to her.  She really wanted me to go on a list of all that she did wrong. She tried to goad me into it.  I don't know why.  I would just reply that my purpose was not to make an account of wrongdoing.  This made her angry. 

One of the things I love about these verses is that it describes love not as what you feel but what you do.  By focusing on her actions, I was finally able to see underneath the surface of the illusion of love she created.  It also kept me honest in my reactions to her.

So, how has your faith helped you?  I really want to know!

[once removed]

4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never ends.

as a believer, this is what my faith commands of me. it is what i aspire to. i fall short, we all do, but god does not.

These verses helped me to see the gap between the love she still claimed that she had for me and her actual behavior.  It made me realize that she didn't have love for me, only need.  When I didn't meet her needs any more, what she claimed to be love ended.  But it was probably never love to begin with.

and often times, i think a version of this is where a lot of us fall short... .in our love for god, in our love for others.

I would just reply that my purpose was not to make an account of wrongdoing. 

... .

By focusing on her actions, I was finally able to see underneath the surface of the illusion of love she created.

is there a difference? im not saying that its wrong to acknowledge the ways someone treats us and act accordingly. the bible doesnt command us to remain in all romantic relationships. it does encourage us to aspire to greater love.

human love can get pretty selfish. psychologically, we tend to show others how we want to be loved by loving them in that way, the way we want to be loved, not necessarily the way that they show or tell us they want to be loved. when we encounter behavior we dont like, we use all kinds of means to diminish it, ranging from withdrawing our affections, being cold, communicating (either healthily or unhealthily) we dont like it, or even doing it back(!).

i suppose thats the role my faith played in the years after my relationship (it certainly sustained me during the breakup). it taught me to aspire to greater love... .receiving it, yes, but also being the man that can give it. i wasnt that man in my relationship. i was far from patient. i was often not kind. lord knows, i did try. the freeing thing is that now i can see where my love for myself, my love for others, the love i give, was limited.

its been a long time. i rarely think of my ex, even when im on here every day. ive no desire to speak with her. yet, i think in terms of how i see her as a human being, i probably love her in a greater way than i ever did in my relationship.

more recently, i lost my dad in december. life was in a bad way before that happened, it was a complete disaster afterward. ill never lose my belief in god, but i did become entirely apathetic. i saw no point in praying. i remember when people would talk about my dad being in heaven, id think "yeah, thats nice, and i believe it, and maybe its also just something we tell ourselves to make ourselves feel better about our loss". that kind of encapsulated my attitude.

during that time, god responded to my apathy by revealing more of himself, and the ways he loves me. some of this, he did in more overt and obvious ways, like the generous outpouring of support i received from others. some of it he did with exposure... .through scripture, through a movie (even kind of a silly movie, but it did make me rethink what a relationship with god is). i knew that god wasnt a great merlin in the sky who was there to erase all of my problems, although now i knew it a little bit better... .but i was informed, reminded, that god is my friend, my great comforter, who wants me to pour my heart out to him, walk with him, and confide in him.

so to summarize i guess i would say in the last decade or so, my faith has helped me to see my deficits in love, to aspire to better, to better appreciate love from god, and love from others, and thats made me more whole and at peace as a person.

great topic Educated_Guess!

[Educated_Guess]

is there a difference? im not saying that its wrong to acknowledge the ways someone treats us and act accordingly. the bible doesnt command us to remain in all romantic relationships. it does encourage us to aspire to greater love.

Great question!  It does seem contradictory.  Recognizing the ways her behavior did not match the description of love given in Corinthians gave me some clarity. It helped me to recalibrate myself to God's love. 

As for the making no account of wrongdoing, I could have taken this knowledge and used it against her.  I could have pointed out all her flaws.  I could have treated her the same way that she treated me.

Would that have helped her?  Would that have helped me?  It may have felt good in the moment to get revenge but it wouldn't have helped anyone.  I know that she likely has this disorder because of abuse and neglect she suffered at such a young age that it was before her sense of self developed.  What she did to me was still wrong, but I understand where it came from.  These verses helped me to find compassion for her when my knee jerk reaction was to hurt her back.

i suppose thats the role my faith played in the years after my relationship (it certainly sustained me during the breakup). it taught me to aspire to greater love... .receiving it, yes, but also being the man that can give it. i wasnt that man in my relationship. i was far from patient. i was often not kind. lord knows, i did try. the freeing thing is that now i can see where my love for myself, my love for others, the love i give, was limited.

its been a long time. i rarely think of my ex, even when im on here every day. ive no desire to speak with her. yet, i think in terms of how i see her as a human being, i probably love her in a greater way than i ever did in my relationship.

I'm in a similar place.  I made a lot of mistakes throughout the relationship and I am upfront about that. I have certainly had to reacquaint myself with grace a lot lately.  But if that grace is there for me, it should be there for her too.  And, yes, God gives grace to all but that doesn't let me off the hook for it.  I still need to feel grace and forgiveness for her.  Sometimes I still get hung up in resentment and anger.  But as the days go by, it gets easier to feel that greater love. 

more recently, i lost my dad in december. life was in a bad way before that happened, it was a complete disaster afterward. ill never lose my belief in god, but i did become entirely apathetic. i saw no point in praying. i remember when people would talk about my dad being in heaven, id think "yeah, thats nice, and i believe it, and maybe its also just something we tell ourselves to make ourselves feel better about our loss". that kind of encapsulated my attitude.

I am sorry for your loss.  People mean well when they say those kinds of things after a death (i.e. God needed another angel in heaven).  But it can be a difficult thing to hear when you're grieving.  It's like, God is all, why does he need my loved one to fill His heavenly court?  I'm glad you were able to work through this experience and feel God's presence and love again.

I would recommend A Grief Observed by C.S. Lewis.  He touches on many of the themes you've expressed here.

Thanks for sharing!

[Sirnut]

Thanks for posting this. I think that when these things happen - a painful breakup, loss of a special relationship - our faith is very important. It sure has been for me.

As I’ve worked through all this with a Christian counsellor I’ve found many wise insights. I’ll pick just one, from Psalm 34:18, which says:

“God loves the broken-hearted, and saves those who are crushed in spirit.”

That’s me. There’s comfort in these words.

SN

[MeandThee29]

Thanks for posting this. I think that when these things happen - a painful breakup, loss of a special relationship - our faith is very important. It sure has been for me.

As I’ve worked through all this with a Christian counsellor I’ve found many wise insights. I’ll pick just one, from Psalm 34:18, which says:

“God loves the broken-hearted, and saves those who are crushed in spirit.”

That’s me. There’s comfort in these words.

SN

That's one of my favorites too.

I recently a joined a Christian 12-step group to work on my codependency and am finding it eye-opening. I finished with a Christian counsellor in May and need a more budget-friendly way of keeping on with it.

My view of God when all of this started going down was that He no longer cared about me. I'm doing much better at grasping how that came to be, and why I keep going back to that place. I also am embracing that truly very little is in my control.

[Educated_Guess]

I’ll pick just one, from Psalm 34:18, which says:

“God loves the broken-hearted, and saves those who are crushed in spirit.”

Hi Sirnut!  That is a great verse.  Thanks for sharing it.  There is a lot of heartbreak in the Psalms but also much rejoicing.  Looking at the Psalms as a whole, I begin to get the idea that the depth of the sorrow you experience may increase your capacity to feel joy.  You can certainly see that dynamic at play with David.

You might enjoy this video from Lutheran pastor, Nadia Bolz Weber.  It has helped me a lot.
https://youtu.be/ctcjNCrGyT8

One of my favorite lines she says is "Blessed are the ones who have loved enough to know what loss feels like."

It has really caused me to think about things.  In my tiny capacity to love one person, I know the pain of loss and separation.  Maybe this gives us a small glimpse of God's experience of loss and separation from all of us.

[Educated_Guess]

My view of God when all of this started going down was that He no longer cared about me. I'm doing much better at grasping how that came to be, and why I keep going back to that place. I also am embracing that truly very little is in my control.

Hi MeandThee29!  Thanks for sharing.

Yeah, this is a tough one.  Where is God when we are going through such pain and does He care? If He cares, why isn't He doing something I can see or feel?  Some of this is tied up in what my expectations are of God and what he will do.  But then I try to remember, "Not as the world gives, do I give unto you."  Maybe part of the purpose of this is to break those expectations so I can learn to see and know God as He is, not as I expect Him to be.

I have been working on co-dependency issues as well.   There's a couple of things here I am working with. 

First, I have the tendency to look for love and validation in other people when I cannot find it within myself or cannot feel it in my relationship with God.  I'm learning that I have to start with myself and with God before I seek these things out in other people.

Second, I think that American Protestant Christianity (what I grew up in) kinda sets you up to be co-dependent.  The message in a lot of American Protestant denominations is that your self worth is determined by how much you do, how much you give and how much you sacrifice.  This becomes the measuring stick you use to determine how good of a Christian you are.  It makes sense that you would then carry that over to your relationships.  There were many times when I didn't set healthy boundaries because I didn't think it was what Jesus would do (because Jesus gave up everything so I should too).  I'm beginning to realize how I've just been looking at this whole "What Would Jesus Do" thing backwards.

What have you been learning with your 12 step program that has helped you?  How are you feeling now?

[BeagleGirl]

Thanks for starting this discussion Educated_Guess.  I really appreciated your viewpoint on the love passage.  I have looked at it from the perspective of "how do I measure up" more times than I can count, but never looked at it in the way you described; as a reality check for whether dBPDxh was really loving me.  It resonated with some things my T (Christian) has been saying about part of my healing being looking honestly at what I experienced with dBPDxh. 

I shared in my "blog" post (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327972.0) about some of the breakthroughs I've had in my relationship with God in the past week. 

I've been realizing that my relationship with God, my dad, and dBPDxh have all followed many of the same patterns.  I feel like finding healing in my relationship with God will help me stop repeating those patterns.  I'd like to really KNOW what love looks like, and I feel like my faith offers the best hope of that. 

I do agree that the "religious" leaning of protestant Christianity can lead to a legalistic view that could devolve into co-dependent behaviors.  I have been realizing this week that the way I have played out "love" in my relationships has been all about working harder and harder to avoid disappointing and maybe win the approval of God, my dad, dBPDxh. 

A light bulb moment for me came in the imagery of the story of the Prodigal Son.  I've heard that story hundreds of times but this time it really struck me that the Father in the story didn't sit the son down and tell him all the ways he'd failed and make sure he knew the hurt that had been caused by his actions.  (My dad has done exactly that with me).  Nor does the bible say anything about looks of disappointment from the Father or the son needing to meet the Father's standards in order to be considered a son.  There's no need to walk on eggshells around God, yet that's what I tend to do.  And it's exhausting. 

But back to your question about how faith has sustained me or helped me see more clearly.  I'm being reminded of scriptures that talk about what love is and isn't.  I see the nature of love in the story of the Prodigal Son, but I also see it in the way that Jesus allowed the rich young ruler to walk away when he realized he was unwilling to pay the price of relationship with God.  I know that God asks me to forgive as I have been forgiven, but take comfort in knowing that He doesn't want me to "cast pearls before swine" or "offer what is sacred to dogs".  I'm hoping that I can shift away from focusing on all the ways I am not living up to God's standards to seeing the invitations to relationship.  I think that will help me see my other relationships more clearly.

BeagleGirl

[once removed]

The message in a lot of American Protestant denominations is that your self worth is determined by how much you do, how much you give and how much you sacrifice.  This becomes the measuring stick you use to determine how good of a Christian you are.  It makes sense that you would then carry that over to your relationships.

it does make sense. it was a problem i ran into often.

i still believe in the values that the bible teaches about those things, like putting others needs before my own. i still believe in simply helping someone in need.

Boundaries are a perfectly biblical concept. having a healthy sense of self and level of differentiation are as well.

if you haven't read Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend (biblically based), i recommend it.

[MeandThee29]

Hi MeandThee29!  Thanks for sharing.

What have you been learning with your 12 step program that has helped you?  How are you feeling now?

I've only been going for a few weeks, but everyone there is so right on. They're starting a step study in mid-September. Ironically it's led by the wife of our wedding photographer at their home. How's that for a small world?

Tonight they talked about abandonment. I've been so focused on my husband's abandonment issues that I really hadn't considered my issues that way. My parents largely abandoned me and used threats and intimidation even into young adulthood. My mother had NPD. Then my husband abandoned me emotionally for many years because of his BPD and medical issues. His insistence on isolation was another factor. And then he left and all the aftermath of that.

I was struck by Hebrews 13:5 - Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

Our standard of living is considerably below what we had and below how my husband lives now. I'm still looking for full-time work and am juggling multiple part-time gigs. Our basic needs are met though. I was concerned about expenses this month, and then I got a call to interview for an early morning job that fits perfectly with everything else. We are content.

And truly God has been with us the whole way, even in my doubts and fears. He's never abandoned us, and we have lots of friends here that are very much with us. I have new friends at this group that also have messy lives. As one lady said to me tonight, you won't have a message for people unless you are a mess.

It was a really good study. A lot to think about.

 

[Educated_Guess]

I've been realizing that my relationship with God, my dad, and dBPDxh have all followed many of the same patterns.  I feel like finding healing in my relationship with God will help me stop repeating those patterns.  I'd like to really KNOW what love looks like, and I feel like my faith offers the best hope of that.

Hi BeagleGirl!  I love your username.  I used to train beagles and bird dogs when I was little (my dad was a hunter).  I was the best dog trainer in the tri-county area and all those redneck men didn't know how I did it.  LOL.  Beagles always impressed me because they would just run themselves ragged chasing after a rabbit.  It was like nothing else existed once they caught that sent.  I always felt a kind of kinship with them because I'm kinda tenacious like that when I'm trying to do something or figure something out.  Do you feel like that too?  I bet you do based on what you wrote ;)

Isn't it liberating when you start seeing those kind of patterns like what you realized with God, your father and partner?  Seeing these kinds of unconscious behavior patterns that came from my childhood has been a major part of the process with me. 

It is pretty common in Christianity for your image of God to be based on your father.  I had a similar conversation with a friend of mine whose father was overly critical and had anger management issues.  My friend still deals with a lot of anxiety when it comes to spiritual matters and he is a perfectionist in most everything he does.  It is strange how the people and situations we encounter as young children create these unconscious behavior patterns that we have to work out as adults.
 

I do agree that the "religious" leaning of protestant Christianity can lead to a legalistic view that could devolve into co-dependent behaviors.  I have been realizing this week that the way I have played out "love" in my relationships has been all about working harder and harder to avoid disappointing and maybe win the approval of God, my dad, dBPDxh. 

A light bulb moment for me came in the imagery of the story of the Prodigal Son.  I've heard that story hundreds of times but this time it really struck me that the Father in the story didn't sit the son down and tell him all the ways he'd failed and make sure he knew the hurt that had been caused by his actions.  (My dad has done exactly that with me).  Nor does the bible say anything about looks of disappointment from the Father or the son needing to meet the Father's standards in order to be considered a son.  There's no need to walk on eggshells around God, yet that's what I tend to do.  And it's exhausting. 

But back to your question about how faith has sustained me or helped me see more clearly.  I'm being reminded of scriptures that talk about what love is and isn't.  I see the nature of love in the story of the Prodigal Son, but I also see it in the way that Jesus allowed the rich young ruler to walk away when he realized he was unwilling to pay the price of relationship with God.  I know that God asks me to forgive as I have been forgiven, but take comfort in knowing that He doesn't want me to "cast pearls before swine" or "offer what is sacred to dogs".  I'm hoping that I can shift away from focusing on all the ways I am not living up to God's standards to seeing the invitations to relationship.  I think that will help me see my other relationships more clearly.

BeagleGirl

Yes yes yes!  Thank you for sharing this!  I've been thinking a lot lately about now grace can never be earned.  It is frightening and freeing at the same time.  But God really does not want us to be trapped in guilt and perpetually trying to earn our salvation.  Hes so adamant about that that He sacrificed himself to make atonement possible - so that we can feel grace freely given.

How are you feeling now you are starting to see these things?

[Educated_Guess]

Thanks for starting this discussion Educated_Guess.  I really appreciated your viewpoint on the love passage.  I have looked at it from the perspective of "how do I measure up" more times than I can count, but never looked at it in the way you described; as a reality check for whether dBPDxh was really loving me.  It resonated with some things my T (Christian) has been saying about part of my healing being looking honestly at what I experienced with dBPDxh. 

Oh, I meant to say something about this in my last post but forgot to.  I don't mean to say that that this verse should be used to point out where someone isn't measuring up.  There's no one moment where I can exhibit all  or even most of these characteristics. 

But if you are reading this and thinking about your partner and after each description of love you are thinking "NOPE", then it's probably not love.  I would say that my BPD loved me as well as she could for most of our relationship but that changed.  At then end I think it turned into something that was 9/10ths hate but still called itself love.  That's where these verses helped me get clarity.

[Educated_Guess]

Boundaries are a perfectly biblical concept. having a healthy sense of self and level of differentiation are as well.

if you haven't read Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend (biblically based), i recommend it.

once removed, I agree with you that healthy boundaries and sense of self are biblical.  Knowing how to apply that is where I trip up.

Thanks for the recommendation.  I'll have to add this to my To Read list.

[Educated_Guess]

Our standard of living is considerably below what we had and below how my husband lives now. I'm still looking for full-time work and am juggling multiple part-time gigs. Our basic needs are met though. I was concerned about expenses this month, and then I got a call to interview for an early morning job that fits perfectly with everything else. We are content.

And truly God has been with us the whole way, even in my doubts and fears. He's never abandoned us, and we have lots of friends here that are very much with us. I have new friends at this group that also have messy lives. As one lady said to me tonight, you won't have a message for people unless you are a mess.

It was a really good study. A lot to think about.

Congrats on the job offer!  I hope things continue to improve for you.  And being content is a great place to be.  I think it is wonderful how you are seeing God as present with you.  Thanks for sharing!

[MeandThee29]

once removed, I agree with you that healthy boundaries and sense of self are biblical.  Knowing how to apply that is where I trip up.

Thanks for the recommendation.  I'll have to add this to my To Read list.

Yes, good book. I also recently read his Boundaries in Marriage book and cried through a lot of it. A local library had it. There were few boundaries between my husband and I. No wonder I had trouble articulating my needs at times and standing up to him. When I was reading it, I shared with a caring friend something I learned, and she reinforced that I put up with things that she would never tolerate. Her husband has also said that he can't imagine treating his wife the way my husband treated me.

He has other books that I've heard about that are good too.

[MeandThee29]

Congrats on the job offer!  I hope things continue to improve for you.  And being content is a great place to be.  I think it is wonderful how you are seeing God as present with you.  Thanks for sharing!

Yes, I'll begin with early morning stocking and then get cashier shifts as the holidays approach. It's a major department store that we like, so the employee discount is a plus. I've never worked in retail, so this was after several dozen applications in that field where I was told I had to have retail experience. The ad said "no experience required." It ends in mid-January, but maybe it will lead to more if I need it.

I'm still looking for full-time professional-level work. I have three degrees and teach part-time at a college and have two small contracts in my field that go through Christmas. One of the professors I work with had too much work and split a contract with me, and the other came through a friend at church.

So I'm thankful that we're good through the end of the year. I'm also thankful that I have a lot of people looking out for me for leads.

[Turkish]

In the midst of her affair while she was still living with me,  I read 1 Cor:13 to her.  She looked at me with all sincerity and a little desperation and asked,  "what is love?"

I messed up big time.  If I had followed my Christian faith,  I'd have never been with her in the first place.  I think it may have come down to,  "that's enough.  Time to move forward."

This got me to reconnect to a church body and bring my kids into it.  My ex as well,  a Roman Catholic in name only who flirted with paganism and was attracted to Bhuddhism (because it seemed soothing to her,  and we live in the largest Vietnamese community in the USA so there are plenty of people with whom to connect).

My Christian therapist,  no fan of my ex,  reminded me that there was nothing wrong with being kind,  that she was still a child of God no matter what she did.  I accepted this through gnashed teeth. 

Suffering is temporary,  eternity is forever. 

Faith helps me play the long game. 

[babyducks]

Hi Educated Guess,

thanks for starting this thread,  I've followed along while I contemplated how or if to respond.

First let me say I belong to a different faith tradition than what is being discussed here,   it's been a significant presence in my life and in the life of my family.    It was the bedrock of my existence and my solace in difficult times.

One of the fall outs, or unexpected consequences of my relationship with my BPD ex is my faith became weaponized against me.     As you probably would guess,   it became very dramatic,  very messy and awfully public by my standards.

I never knew that spiritual abuse existed.   I certainly never saw it coming.    I would define spiritual abuse as when a person uses G-d, spirituality, religion, as an excuse to control, or a reason to manipulate, punish or exploit another person.     

Yeah.    So that was pretty much my experience.    and surprisingly my faith crumbled under the onslaught.      what used to bring me solace now brought me flashbacks and emotional trauma any time I approached it.    eventually I was diagnosed with a stress disorder,  similar in nature to a mild case of PTSD.    Going anywhere near my place of worship caused me to either hyperventaliate or vomit.     

I've worked for over a year now and made some progress in rebuilding a spiritual life that gently touches on my old spiritual life.   It's been very difficult.     I know I am off your original topic but I wanted to participate in your thread by saying that perhaps one day I can regain a comfortable and active spiritual life.

'ducks

[Mustbeabetterway]

Interesting thread.  I was raised Christian in a protestant religion.  I remember hearing and being soothed by God's voice from a very early age. 

I believe the filters I developed, with codependent tendencies caused my takeaway in church to be "You are not good enough... .". I don't think this was God, but how I responded to sermons and my fellow churchgoers.  As a consequence, I have worked very hard to be a good person, but felt I was forever missing the mark.

Actually, I felt the same with my uBPDh.  I worked very hard, but mostly missed the mark.  My religious beliefs probably kept me married for the 38 years we lived together.  I took my vows before God seriously.  But, I don't believe that God gave me this life to live in pain, conflict and turmoil.  So we are separated.

I have talked in other posts about the golden rule and how I approached it from the standpoint of how do others want to be treated.  After careful study, I have learned that I had to know how I wanted to be treated in order to treat others that way.  I needed to be good to myself as well as others.  Can any of you relate to that?

Now, I am trying to live simply and have an uncomplicated simple faith.  I find much solace in prayer.

Thanks for sharing, everyone.

Peace and blessings,

Mustbeabetterway

[once removed]

what hadnt occurred to me to mention until now is that my ex were on very different pages not only in our values, but in our religious and spiritual beliefs (she was an atheist). it wasnt the first time id been in a relationship where that was the case.

i tried to sweep it under the rug, but it would rear its head. id worry about how we were going to raise the children we talked about having. i believe strongly in having my god be central in my family and my household. its important to me to be on the same page and working together as a team in that regard. what happens when i bring my son or daughter home from church, and mom tells her "thats a bunch of bs honey". thats only fair, right?

ive rationalized it away before, ie "i might date with someone with very different beliefs, but i wouldnt marry into it." maybe that was reasonable when i was younger, but these things are far more important to me now, and its a mistake i wont make again.

[MeandThee29]

One of the fall outs, or unexpected consequences of my relationship with my BPD ex is my faith became weaponized against me.     As you probably would guess,   it became very dramatic,  very messy and awfully public by my standards.

I never knew that spiritual abuse existed.   I certainly never saw it coming.    I would define spiritual abuse as when a person uses G-d, spirituality, religion, as an excuse to control, or a reason to manipulate, punish or exploit another person.     

Yeah.    So that was pretty much my experience.    and surprisingly my faith crumbled under the onslaught.      what used to bring me solace now brought me flashbacks and emotional trauma any time I approached it.    eventually I was diagnosed with a stress disorder,  similar in nature to a mild case of PTSD.    Going anywhere near my place of worship caused me to either hyperventaliate or vomit.     

I've worked for over a year now and made some progress in rebuilding a spiritual life that gently touches on my old spiritual life.   It's been very difficult.     I know I am off your original topic but I wanted to participate in your thread by saying that perhaps one day I can regain a comfortable and active spiritual life.

Yes, I live there too. Mine used to be a teacher in our congregation, so super awkward when he left abruptly. Our group has been becoming more balanced IMHO in the last five years, and my husband didn't like that. He had very little respect for the leaders when he left and was raised with a more conservative viewpoint. Ironically he's not involved with any spiritual body now. It was really hard at first, but they have really loved on us. We feel perfectly comfortable there.

And yes, I was subjected to spiritual abuse as well. I have shared some of the things I was told with the leadership , and they were very adamant with their disagreement, as I expected they would be. They've stressed that any steps towards reconciliation must be done with counselling and accountability (as does my counsellor who understands BPD), and my husband adamantly says it's only between the two of us. I doubt I'd last more than a day one-on-one. That's BPD.

[babyducks]

thanks Mustbeabetterway….  this rang all sorts of bells for me.

I believe the filters I developed, with codependent tendencies caused my takeaway in church to be "You are not good enough... .". I don't think this was God, but how I responded to sermons and my fellow churchgoers.  As a consequence, I have worked very hard to be a good person, but felt I was forever missing the mark.

what I believe to be true for me is;   I came out of my family of origin with all sorts of self esteem issues.     looking back I can see that the idealization of my pw BPD was like a panacea for my soul.   right up until the devaluation started.   and then the constant refrain of "you are not good enough"  became 'you are a failure'.    I think my FOO installed my inner critic and parts of my religious background helped fuel it.     

 

I was subjected to spiritual abuse as well. I have shared some of the things I was told with the leadership , and they were very adamant with their disagreement, as I expected they would be. 

Sorry you went through this MeandThee29.    I had some struggles with leadership.   Mostly that I was cast as the physical abuser in the relationship,  and the clergy,  not familar with projection, played into it.    it got pretty messy.    things are quieter now but I still have to deal with a lot of eye rolling and side ways looks and turned backs if I go to service.    what was true for me was the clergy had no experience with serious mental illness and the distorted reality that cames with it.

'ducks

[Educated_Guess]

In the midst of her affair while she was still living with me,  I read 1 Cor:13 to her.  She looked at me with all sincerity and a little desperation and asked,  "what is love?"

I messed up big time.  If I had followed my Christian faith,  I'd have never been with her in the first place.  I think it may have come down to,  "that's enough.  Time to move forward."

This got me to reconnect to a church body and bring my kids into it.  My ex as well,  a Roman Catholic in name only who flirted with paganism and was attracted to Bhuddhism (because it seemed soothing to her,  and we live in the largest Vietnamese community in the USA so there are plenty of people with whom to connect).

My Christian therapist,  no fan of my ex,  reminded me that there was nothing wrong with being kind,  that she was still a child of God no matter what she did.  I accepted this through gnashed teeth. 

Suffering is temporary,  eternity is forever. 

Faith helps me play the long game. 

Hi Turkish!  Thanks for sharing!  I like what your therapist said. It is not wrong to be kind and to remember that even the people that hurt us the most are creations of God and beloved by Him.  Taking this perspective helps to open the door to forgiveness and healing.

Let me just say, if my ex had asked me "What is love?", I would have sung in reply:  "What is love?  Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more!"   

[Educated_Guess]

One of the fall outs, or unexpected consequences of my relationship with my BPD ex is my faith became weaponized against me.     As you probably would guess,   it became very dramatic,  very messy and awfully public by my standards.

I never knew that spiritual abuse existed.   I certainly never saw it coming.    I would define spiritual abuse as when a person uses G-d, spirituality, religion, as an excuse to control, or a reason to manipulate, punish or exploit another person.     

Yeah.    So that was pretty much my experience.    and surprisingly my faith crumbled under the onslaught.      what used to bring me solace now brought me flashbacks and emotional trauma any time I approached it.    eventually I was diagnosed with a stress disorder,  similar in nature to a mild case of PTSD.    Going anywhere near my place of worship caused me to either hyperventaliate or vomit.     

I've worked for over a year now and made some progress in rebuilding a spiritual life that gently touches on my old spiritual life.   It's been very difficult.     I know I am off your original topic but I wanted to participate in your thread by saying that perhaps one day I can regain a comfortable and active spiritual life.

Hi babyducks!  Thank you so much for sharing your story!  It takes courage to share an experience like this.

I am so sorry that this happened and that your faith was used against you in this way.  I know a little something about spiritual abuse being LGBT in a rural, very conservative and very Christian region of the US.  I've learned a few things over the years after being called an abomination, a pervert, told that I was going to Hell and told me that it could not be possible to be who I am and still know and follow Christ.  It is painful and I think it is one of the worst attacks possible to make someone doubt themselves and their faith.

People who do this sort of thing are afraid and are very weak.  They fear that they will not be accepted by the Divine and so they seek to make someone appear worse than they are.  It is partially projection and partially self hatred.  Instead of working on their own issues, they will make another a scapegoat. 

This tactic also shows their weakness. They can't stand toe to toe with you on their own so they have to bring an almighty superpower into the mix to feel that they are better than you.  Now when I encounter someone who tries to use faith to tear me down, instead of doubting myself I think, "Ok, you have just revealed who you are to me.  You are afraid and you are weak."

Remember that kindness, patience and acceptance are Divine, not violence or abuse in any form.  The Divine does not seek to tear down but to build up.  Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise does not know what is righteous and divine.

I hope and pray that you are able to continue on your path to reconnecting with the spirituality within you.  I am so sorry that someone tried to take that away from you.  Blessings to you, babyducks!

[Educated_Guess]

And yes, I was subjected to spiritual abuse as well. I have shared some of the things I was told with the leadership , and they were very adamant with their disagreement, as I expected they would be. They've stressed that any steps towards reconciliation must be done with counselling and accountability (as does my counsellor who understands BPD), and my husband adamantly says it's only between the two of us. I doubt I'd last more than a day one-on-one. That's BPD.

Hi MeandThee29!  The response from your husband is very interesting.  I think pwBPD know on some level (maybe subconscious) that the ways that they attempt to bend reality when painting you black cannot stand up to the scrutiny of any outside observer.   They also probably lose some sense of control.  If they are trying to convince you that blue is red, then the last thing they want is someone reasonable in your life who can say, "No, blue is still blue."

[Educated_Guess]

I have talked in other posts about the golden rule and how I approached it from the standpoint of how do others want to be treated.  After careful study, I have learned that I had to know how I wanted to be treated in order to treat others that way.  I needed to be good to myself as well as others.  Can any of you relate to that?

Hi Mustbeabetterway!  I totally relate to what you are saying.  I've spent most of my life thinking that love inherently meant self sacrifice. I still think it does involve self sacrifice but not to the extreme that I was taking it. 

I had a similar revelation about the verse that commands that we "love your neighbor as you love yourself." I was always focused on the "love your neighbor" part. Now I am paying more attention to the "as you love yourself" part.  If you do not love yourself, you really aren't going to be able to love your neighbor very much.  If you are not kind with yourself, how will you know how to be kind to others, you know?

[Mustbeabetterway]

Yes, Educated _Guess,

I agree that love involves sacrifice.  But,as you say,  it involves loving and caring for yourself, too.  Maybe striking a balance is
what is needed.

ducks, thanks for your response to my post.  Just from my time here at BPD family, I have observed that us “Nons” often take things to heart and can become very broken.  In my personal experience, coming from a place of brokenness has left me more open to my higher power.  I like the way you say you are rebuilding a spiritual life that “gently touches” your old spiritual life.  It’s poetic.  I hope that you will be able to again have a comfortable and active spiritual life.   

Peace and blessings,
Mustbe

[Insom]

Nice thread, Educated_Guess. It sounds like in addition to helping you understand love, Corinthians 13  also helped you find compassion for your ex and avoid falling into the JADE trap (feeling like you need to justify, argue, defend and explain).  I love your nuanced, real-world interpretation of this scripture and can relate to feeling guided in the search for healing. 

FWIW, my engagement in a committed yoga practice has had a big impact, I believe, in raising memories of abuse in a manner which has allowed me to process them and move on.  I feel grateful and humbled to be studying with lovely teacher  in a lovely community.  I love how faith practices can help us feel connected so we don't have to feel alone.

Do you feel like your faith community has played a role in your healing/helping you understand?

[Educated_Guess]

Nice thread, Educated_Guess. It sounds like in addition to helping you understand love, Corinthians 13  also helped you find compassion for your ex and avoid falling into the JADE trap (feeling like you need to justify, argue, defend and explain).  I love your nuanced, real-world interpretation of this scripture and can relate to feeling guided in the search for healing. 

FWIW, my engagement in a committed yoga practice has had a big impact, I believe, in raising memories of abuse in a manner which has allowed me to process them and move on.  I feel grateful and humbled to be studying with lovely teacher  in a lovely community.  I love how faith practices can help us feel connected so we don't have to feel alone.

Do you feel like your faith community has played a role in your healing/helping you understand?

Hi Insom!  Thanks for sharing.  I actually did not read about the JADE trap until after I posted it but could see the similarities right way.  Truth comes in multiple ways, right?

I've been considering starting yoga.  I think it will be helpful for some of my physical limitations and I am attractive to the meditative aspect as well.  I'm not really sure where to start with it.  There are no local resources where I live.  I am friends with a Hindu "nun" (I forget the title she uses in her tradition). I may reach out to her to get pointed in the right direction.

My faith community has definitely been there for me.  I hadn't been to church in several months but started going back a few weeks after the breakup.  They listened to me when I didn't know how to listen to myself.  They have been kind and patient.  They have prayed for me and my ex.  Most of all, they show me compassion.  It was in seeing the compassion in their eyes that made me realize the desert of no care and compassion that I had been living in for so long.

[babyducks]

Hi Insom

I noticed this in your message

FWIW, my engagement in a committed yoga practice has had a big impact, I believe, in raising memories of abuse in a manner which has allowed me to process them and move on. 

and wondered if you would mind explaining this a little more?    how did yoga raise those memories and then allow you to process them?