STBX sent a rant and I'm processing

[Depression = 72% of members]

For a little bit of background, we have been corresponding through the neutral co-parenting platform Our Family Wizard about setting up S5 to start seeing a therapist.  Since I take D9 to all of her therapy appointments, she said she wanted to take point on scheduling and taking S5 to a therapist who is closer to her new home (which is approx. 30 minutes away from my house and the kids' school when traffic is cooperating, but definitely more when it's rush hour).

She had floated the idea of scheduling his appointments on Saturdays.  Since I have no intention of giving up a huge chunk of my weekends with my son, that would mean I'd have to travel over there every weekend that the kids are with me in order to get him to the appointment.  I take care of D9's weekly therapy appointments per the insistence of my STBX during or 10-hour marathon mediation (because of proximity to my house and the fact that my STBX split on that therapist some time ago), plus I also take D9 to all Girl Scouts meetings (twice a month), take S5 to dance lessons every other Saturday when he's with me, and due to proximity to the school and healthcare providers I basically take both kids to all medical and dental appointments.  So, I declined agreeing to therapy appointments for S5 on my Saturdays... .but due to my wording it seems she thought I was also declining to take him to his dance lessons.  

Cue the following rant about anything and everything related to our separation.  While reading it, I was surprised (somewhat pleased) that I didn't get that knot in the pit of my stomach like I so frequently would get when having a disagreement with her.  Mostly, I just find her exhausting.  She clearly needed to get this off her chest, even though I have already heard variations of many of the points multiple times already.

Message from STBX:

I agree and will ask her about those two issues in the initial phone screening prior to making an appointment.

I understand about Saturdays. Let me clarify: Since I know that you already handle 100% of D9's Scouts and 100% of D9's appointments with (D9's T), I am offering to handle 100% of S5's therapy appointments--even if it alternates between Wed/Thurs. afternoon one week and a Saturday appointment the next week--but only 50% of his ballet lessons.

I was forced to relocate and leave the house I helped purchase with shared equity. I wanted to rent a townhouse and not live in an apartment complex. In addition, any apartment complex would have run my debt to income ratio (factoring in the $275k mortgage still on my credit reports) and declined me for any application, whether in (town 1), (town 2) or (town 3).

This means that the days I have the kids, it takes approximately 45-50 mins in the morning to go up to (highway 1), down (highway 2), then (highway 3) to (highway 4) and the exit onto (highway 5). That does not include my drive time from (kids' elementary school) to my office. In the evening, it takes me 1.25 to 1.5 hours to go out (highway 1), down (highway 2), (highway 3) to (highway 4), exit onto (highway 5), get them from (kids' elementary school), usually have to stop at least once for somebody to pee at a gas station, then back up (highway 4) (not (highway 3) to (highway 1) to (highway 6) and finally (highway 7) toward (town 3). I do not have anyone else who can go pick up the kids for me -- I have to figure it out.

By great contrast, you did not have to move because you wanted the house and you could afford to keep making the payments. You did not have to pack up your stuff, forfeit all equity you helped build up since the townhouse in 2006 (including (STBX's grandfather's) $25k we invested therein, including appliance purchases, etc).

You didn't have to move in with your mom while fighting with an insurance company to have your car declared totaled, drive a rental car for 2+ weeks and then pick out a used car 2 years older than the one that was wrecked by no fault of your own the day before packing up your boxes at your old house by yourself. You aren't the parent that is repeatedly asked why you do have a townhouse, why is your house so small, why don't you have a yard or a pool? Why are the bedrooms so small? Why isn't there a playroom?

My parents come over every other weekend for a visit with the kids and, for the first time, kept them for about 2 hours this past Sunday so I could go meet a rescue dog. Again, sorry about the bangs; it pisses us both off. (STBX's brother and sister-in-law) are very busy since both boys are in soccer plus (nephew) has martial arts lessons. My life changes are EVERYWHERE, but for the fact that I am still self-employed and re-building my earning capacity, without PTO, benefits, or access to 401(k) and matching.

From the outside looking in, your life hasn't changed much. You are learning to be a single parent 50% of the time (like me). But you are still an employee at a W-2 job with 401(k) matching and 6 weeks PTO. According to the kids, your mother and sister still help you with transportation in the evenings, including therapy appointments and GS meetings, not to mention taking S5 to (my sister's) house or taking both kids to the pool to occasionally give you a break on weekends. You still get to be the parent that stayed in the house with the yard and the neighborhood pool and friends next door.

I'm asking you to do me a solid by just offering to take S5 to his ballet lessons every other Saturday so that my weekends without kids I'm not still in the car back and forth between (town 1) and (town 3).

I am gradually coming to recognize and accept that this is what I lived with for years!  It doesn't matter the perceived offense.  The only thing that has ever mattered is her perception and the impact on her.  She never cares to seek clarification first either... .it's just immediate explosive anger over whatever slight or insult or unfairness she has decided I am committing.  And the invitation to fight over everything else is so very tempting, but for what?  She will never acknowledge how much I carried our family financially for years, how much I have done to help her and take care of her and carry more than half of the parenting load with the kids, or what I have gone through mentally and emotionally with her manipulation and abuse... .the damage she has caused me.

I already replied but stuck to BIFF... .I apologized for the misunderstanding about transportation to S5's dance lessons, stressed that I have always been and remain on board to take him to those on the weekends he is with me, and clarified I was only declining to also take him to therapy on those days.  Still, I am feeling a very strong need to write out a response to all of this... .an exercise that has been encouraged in other threads.  I have no intention of sending to her but will post here for therapeutic purposes.  It's going to take me a little while to put together and I'm going to try not to obsess about it while I try to finish up my workday... .

mw

[mama-wolf]

For a little bit of background, we have been corresponding through the neutral co-parenting platform Our Family Wizard about setting up S5 to start seeing a therapist.  Since I take D9 to all of her therapy appointments, she said she wanted to take point on scheduling and taking S5 to a therapist who is closer to her new home (which is approx. 30 minutes away from my house and the kids' school when traffic is cooperating, but definitely more when it's rush hour).

She had floated the idea of scheduling his appointments on Saturdays.  Since I have no intention of giving up a huge chunk of my weekends with my son, that would mean I'd have to travel over there every weekend that the kids are with me in order to get him to the appointment.  I take care of D9's weekly therapy appointments per the insistence of my STBX during or 10-hour marathon mediation (because of proximity to my house and the fact that my STBX split on that therapist some time ago), plus I also take D9 to all Girl Scouts meetings (twice a month), take S5 to dance lessons every other Saturday when he's with me, and due to proximity to the school and healthcare providers I basically take both kids to all medical and dental appointments.  So, I declined agreeing to therapy appointments for S5 on my Saturdays... .but due to my wording it seems she thought I was also declining to take him to his dance lessons.  

Cue the following rant about anything and everything related to our separation.  While reading it, I was surprised (somewhat pleased) that I didn't get that knot in the pit of my stomach like I so frequently would get when having a disagreement with her.  Mostly, I just find her exhausting.  She clearly needed to get this off her chest, even though I have already heard variations of many of the points multiple times already.

Message from STBX:

I agree and will ask her about those two issues in the initial phone screening prior to making an appointment.

I understand about Saturdays. Let me clarify: Since I know that you already handle 100% of D9's Scouts and 100% of D9's appointments with (D9's T), I am offering to handle 100% of S5's therapy appointments--even if it alternates between Wed/Thurs. afternoon one week and a Saturday appointment the next week--but only 50% of his ballet lessons.

I was forced to relocate and leave the house I helped purchase with shared equity. I wanted to rent a townhouse and not live in an apartment complex. In addition, any apartment complex would have run my debt to income ratio (factoring in the $275k mortgage still on my credit reports) and declined me for any application, whether in (town 1), (town 2) or (town 3).

This means that the days I have the kids, it takes approximately 45-50 mins in the morning to go up to (highway 1), down (highway 2), then (highway 3) to (highway 4) and the exit onto (highway 5). That does not include my drive time from (kids' elementary school) to my office. In the evening, it takes me 1.25 to 1.5 hours to go out (highway 1), down (highway 2), (highway 3) to (highway 4), exit onto (highway 5), get them from (kids' elementary school), usually have to stop at least once for somebody to pee at a gas station, then back up (highway 4) (not (highway 3) to (highway 1) to (highway 6) and finally (highway 7) toward (town 3). I do not have anyone else who can go pick up the kids for me -- I have to figure it out.

By great contrast, you did not have to move because you wanted the house and you could afford to keep making the payments. You did not have to pack up your stuff, forfeit all equity you helped build up since the townhouse in 2006 (including (STBX's grandfather's) $25k we invested therein, including appliance purchases, etc).

You didn't have to move in with your mom while fighting with an insurance company to have your car declared totaled, drive a rental car for 2+ weeks and then pick out a used car 2 years older than the one that was wrecked by no fault of your own the day before packing up your boxes at your old house by yourself. You aren't the parent that is repeatedly asked why you do have a townhouse, why is your house so small, why don't you have a yard or a pool? Why are the bedrooms so small? Why isn't there a playroom?

My parents come over every other weekend for a visit with the kids and, for the first time, kept them for about 2 hours this past Sunday so I could go meet a rescue dog. Again, sorry about the bangs; it pisses us both off. (STBX's brother and sister-in-law) are very busy since both boys are in soccer plus (nephew) has martial arts lessons. My life changes are EVERYWHERE, but for the fact that I am still self-employed and re-building my earning capacity, without PTO, benefits, or access to 401(k) and matching.

From the outside looking in, your life hasn't changed much. You are learning to be a single parent 50% of the time (like me). But you are still an employee at a W-2 job with 401(k) matching and 6 weeks PTO. According to the kids, your mother and sister still help you with transportation in the evenings, including therapy appointments and GS meetings, not to mention taking S5 to (my sister's) house or taking both kids to the pool to occasionally give you a break on weekends. You still get to be the parent that stayed in the house with the yard and the neighborhood pool and friends next door.

I'm asking you to do me a solid by just offering to take S5 to his ballet lessons every other Saturday so that my weekends without kids I'm not still in the car back and forth between (town 1) and (town 3).

I am gradually coming to recognize and accept that this is what I lived with for years!  It doesn't matter the perceived offense.  The only thing that has ever mattered is her perception and the impact on her.  She never cares to seek clarification first either... .it's just immediate explosive anger over whatever slight or insult or unfairness she has decided I am committing.  And the invitation to fight over everything else is so very tempting, but for what?  She will never acknowledge how much I carried our family financially for years, how much I have done to help her and take care of her and carry more than half of the parenting load with the kids, or what I have gone through mentally and emotionally with her manipulation and abuse... .the damage she has caused me.

I already replied but stuck to BIFF... .I apologized for the misunderstanding about transportation to S5's dance lessons, stressed that I have always been and remain on board to take him to those on the weekends he is with me, and clarified I was only declining to also take him to therapy on those days.  Still, I am feeling a very strong need to write out a response to all of this... .an exercise that has been encouraged in other threads.  I have no intention of sending to her but will post here for therapeutic purposes.  It's going to take me a little while to put together and I'm going to try not to obsess about it while I try to finish up my workday... .

mw

[formflier]

I already replied but stuck to BIFF... .

Hey mama-wolf,

Haven't checked in with you in a while.  

How frustrating to have to mix in talk of W2s and fairness on all that other stuff, with scheduling therapy.

I would suggest using some tools and keep the focus on the "truth" of the importance of finding a good T that works for the child.  I can't imagine any good coming from trying to reason with all the driving and hardship that she clearly wants to lay on you. 
   

Hang in there...

FF  

[SerendipityChild]

It is incredible how they get to breakdown everything they have done or gone through yet not one comment on any of your contributions in the past and present. Sounds like a typical victim mentality. I also noticed how most of the sentences starts with "You" which makes it sounds like you're the one who is the problem in this scenario.

[mama-wolf]

Hey mama-wolf,

Haven't checked in with you in a while.  

Hi there, FF!  Good to hear from you.  I am definitely working very hard to keep the focus on what the kids need and only the facts of a given situation.  It takes a lot of effort for me to let go of wanting to "set the record straight," but so far I have managed to keep my responses brief, focused, light in tone, but also firmly rooted in my boundaries.  I hope I can keep it up... .

It is incredible how they get to breakdown everything they have done or gone through yet not one comment on any of your contributions in the past and present. Sounds like a typical victim mentality.

Yes, yes, and YES... .thank you, SerendipityChild!

So, I didn't quite manage to keep myself from ruminating over a response while I tried to finish out my workday, but I was partially successful.  And now, here it is--the response that will never be sent to her.  It's long, but I'm hoping I covered everything and that getting it out of my system will further help me to process things.

I recognize that you are going through a lot of changes right now, and you are very unhappy with the way things have turned out with our marriage and the subsequent separation.  You went into extensive detail about how much you feel was taken away from you, about how difficult things are for you now, and how wronged you feel.  While externally it seems I am dealing with less of an adjustment, I felt it worthwhile to go through some details about what I have experienced.

I have spent years with the expectation hanging over me that I have no choice but to evolve into the spouse you expect me to be, one who is more vulnerable and open with my own emotions but in an environment that in no way fostered a feeling of safety or acceptance.  I have been shown for years that I am not good enough and am not accepted as I am.  Your philosophy (which you stated more than once) was that the purpose of our marriage was to help make each other better people.  I have not ever taken on a mission to make you a "better person."  Support you in the path you choose to achieve that, yes, but I don't decide the path--or the destination. 

Yet what I found was that I was the one being asked to change, over and over, from small behaviors to big ones.  And when I would successfully modify one behavior, I would be told of another that needed my attention next... and another... .and another.  I was so frequently reminded of what I did wrong or not well enough... .either as a direct criticism, or sometimes in the context of a joke... .and if I objected I was brushed off and told "we should be able to laugh at ourselves." 

My feelings and opinions have long been judged against what you needed/wanted and what you thought I should need/want.  If what I wanted went against something you wanted in some way (real or perceived), then it was treated as an attack or a debate where you needed to convince me otherwise.  If I spoke up, what I said would get an extreme interpretation and thoughts would be attributed to me that you had created in your own mind.

I have spent years having to justify any dissenting opinion and generally explain myself if you didn't agree with me... .being told that by sticking to values that are important to me I'm the one causing us to be in gridlock.  I have been subjected to constant pressure to give you what you want or agree to do what you want.  Even when I think we have agreed on my preference or a course of action that I think is reasonable, your preference or how you really want to do something comes up again... .and again... .and again until I finally just have to give up or buckle up for an argument that turns explosive and nasty (after which you ultimately would get what you want anyway).

On multiple occasions, you have said or done something and later told me with utter conviction that you did not say or do that thing.  You even once said that in "[your] reality" that's what did or didn't happen, leaving me to question my own reality and/or convince you with evidence to the contrary.  See also: crazy-making, gaslighting.

All of this has been going on to some degree throughout our marriage, but has gotten markedly worse in the last few years, and it has continued through the very end of our relationship.  Any minor improvements that happened near the very end really were too little too late, with absolutely no confidence on my part that the improvements would be sustained (much less improve any further).

You got very comfortable with being taken care of, while neglecting any efforts to build or maintain capacity to similarly care for me.  You wanted to hear of my troubles mainly as a distraction from your own (you specifically said this)... .not from a genuine desire to support me or offer anything requiring actual effort from you.  You relied on the stability of my income, while continually pushing to have the life that you thought we should have, buy or do the things that you wanted, even when we knew we needed to restrain our spending.  As an example, we have made interest-only payments on my $55k worth of student loans for the past five years, with zero prospects of increasing those payments anytime soon and ongoing discussion about our "next trip to Disney."

For years, we have chased your needs/preferences in what church to go to, where to work, and where to live due to your commute... .all based on your priorities, based on what bothered you or not.  Yes, I agreed to go through with and support all of these.  In some instances there were some reasonable justifications.  In the end, regardless of any arguments for or against, I had learned that arguing against it would be futile anyway, so why even try to resist? 

Need to change churches since the old one isn't quite right and the leadership has been through too many transitions?  OK.  Need to stop working for yourself because there's too much financial uncertainty?  OK.  Need to accelerate our timeline to buy a house due to the commute to the new job that's too aggravating?  OK.  Really important to you that we move S5 to a new daycare that offers Montessori education, but then six months later move him back to the old daycare because the new one was just not "Montessori enough"?  OK and then OK again.  Need to now leave the job you just got the year before because the environment is too toxic, with no new job lined up?  OK.  Need me to carry the family financially until you finally get in at a firm nearly a year after leaving the last one?  OK.  Need to leave the newer church because you have been to offended by the leadership there?  OK.  Need my support through medical issue after medical issue after medical issue? OK.  Need to leave YET ANOTHER job because now it has became too toxic, too?  OK.

I have had to neglect relationships that are extremely important to me because that person upset you too much, or it was just too stressful to make any plans, or they made you feel like you weren't my absolute top priority.  I have lived with a constant awareness that if I'm talking to my mom, you're quietly questioning how long I've been talking to her, why am I talking to her at that particular moment, and how frequently have I talked to her that week already?  When my mother almost died from a lymphoma that would have killed the majority of patients fitting her demographic, I was frequently challenged about why my sister couldn't go and be with her instead, why my mom couldn't be on her own more, and why I needed to do things for her.

I was forced to neglect my own interests for the sake of keeping the peace at home.  To avoid that moment of hesitation before you would reluctantly agree to me spending time or money on something (similar to the various moments when I would bring up a pending business trip)... .only for me to hear more later about how much of a burden my spending the time on that thing--or being away on that business trip--was for you.  Or worse, only to have you take your frustrations and bad mood out on me by getting into an argument, then to have you insist that you fully supported me and there was no way the two things were related.

Once I got to a place where I was finally utterly depleted emotionally, I was met with resentment and impatience for taking space and time that I needed to heal.  After repeatedly asking for help to rebuild emotional safety, which would require that you find some way to actually follow through on doing things you said you would do, it just wouldn't happen.  I have gone from being a confident, focused, self-sufficient woman to a place where I doubt myself and my capabilities in ways I never have in all my life.  I struggle to focus at work, and I struggle daily with my own sense of self worth.

You have already acknowledged to your T that you emotionally manipulated me on many occasions, intentionally starting arguments, provoking me into becoming emotionally overwhelmed.  The criticism, the sarcasm, the controlling behaviors... .you drove me to anxiety--something I have never struggled with before I finally succumbed last year.  You nearly put me in a depression.  You completely depleted my emotional capacity.   Make no mistake... .this is all psychological and emotional abuse.  It doesn't matter if the majority of it was unintentional.  The difference between murder and manslaughter is intent, and the victim is still just as dead.

So, now that I am no longer willing to pay for you to play the victim and chase the next thing that you think is going to make you feel better, you're angry with me.  Once I finally stood my ground to maintain as much stability, constancy, and financial stability as possible for our children, you're frustrated that you didn't get what you felt you were entitled to out the deal.  Now that you are truly being held responsible for half of the parenting responsibilities and for supporting yourself... .now that you are having to get your sh*t together... .you're upset.

Meanwhile, I'm left reeling from the effects of years of crazy-making and controlling, of psychological and emotional abuse, no matter how subtle and unintended it may have been.

You don't like how your life looks now.  I don't like the Hell that I have been through for the past several years. 

I'm not sorry.

[Mutt]

Hi mama-wolf,

Thanks for sharing that here with us. While I was reading your post it made me think about my r/s with my ex. You made a lot of sacrifices you know that saying give an inch Im glad to hear that you didn’t JADE and decided to post here.

I think that she may be responding the way that she is because she’s not used to your boundaries - many of us here have had floating or no boundaries and when you start defending them you’ll get some lashing out for a little while.

There’s a lot of G in FOG in her response - stick to your guns that you’re not going to sacrifice your weekends.

[mama-wolf]

Im glad to hear that you didn’t JADE and decided to post here.

Thanks, Mutt!  The urge to JADE is extremely strong with her sometimes... .as I am sure it is for many of us.  For me, it’s especially bad when she lays things out so systematically and in such detail.  That kind of structure to the argument just begs for me to start dismantling it... .but I finally learned it would just do no good.  Worse, it would escalate the situation.

I really think she doesn’t know how to handle me finally sticking to my boundaries.  She has been able to override, circumvent, or outright demolish them before, and it’s just not working anymore.

There’s a lot of G in FOG in her response - stick to your guns that you’re not going to sacrifice your weekends.

Yes, and I do struggle mightily with the guilt.  But I’m finally learning not to accept that burden of extra guilt from her.  I carry my own and am learning how to deal with that.  I certainly don’t need any extra doses from her.

mw

[formflier]

That kind of structure to the argument just begs for me to start dismantling it... .but I finally learned it would just do no good.  Worse, it would escalate the situation.

Solid work leaving her (BS) argument intact. 

I would encourage you to sit with your feelings and thoughts for a bit and try to identify "how" you were able to let that go and/or what parts were still triggering... and "calling your name".

Basically... my hope is for you to build momentum on the things that are working for you.

Best to you!

FF

[mama-wolf]

I would encourage you to sit with your feelings and thoughts for a bit and try to identify "how" you were able to let that go and/or what parts were still triggering... and "calling your name".

Hi FF... .it has taken me some time to think about this, and I'm not quite sure I have found the answer.  I guess I am actually finally getting a handle on some of the tools... .like don't JADE, and using BIFF.  I also know enough about my stbx that it would just set me up for ongoing arguments if I were to try addressing my thoughts and perspective.  Maybe I'd pursue that option anyway if I didn't have to interact with her on an ongoing basis for co-parenting, but my priority has to be maintaining a functional level of communication with her for the sake of the kids.

It feels so incredibly unfair that I get all of the blame, anger, and skewed perspective thrown at me, but she'll never hear or understand/accept the truth of my experience.  So, for the most part, I actually feel pretty defeated, exasperated, and hopeless about all of it.  And, for lack of a better word, disgusted that I can't have an adult conversation about it all... .but I do recognize that if that were possible, all of this probably wouldn't have happened in the first place.

mw

[formflier]

  And, for lack of a better word, disgusted that I can't have an adult conversation about it all

So... there is a concept of "picking up fleas" of disordered thinking by "being in close contact" with a "disordered thinker".

Time to get some flea spray... .

You can have an adult conversation... .she is the one that can't.  Now... that does mean that you can't have an adult conversation "with her" and that is a very sad thing.  I'm so sorry.     

This is where you will learn to "toughen up" more and more (progress is really obvious... .keep it up!   ) so you can have "adult conversations" with your children's caregivers, doctors, Ts... etc etc.  The sucky thing that you need "toughness" for is that while those "real" conversations are going on there will be the "background" noise of  "crazy". 

Over time, I hope you can ignore it more and more.

FF