You can gauge how "sick" someone is by how they respond when you say "no" to them...

[Pilpel]

Date: 11-2017Minutes: 24:03
The Fastest, Easiest Test For Narcissism ---  "The Smiling No Test"

I'd never heard of him before, but did find one podcast that he did.  Yeah, he emphasizes that he's not qualified to diagnose anyone.  But the things he says here are things that I wish I'd heard years ago, when I first met the NPD SIL.   Basically he says you can gauge how "sick" someone is by how they respond when you say "no" to them... .a pleasant smiling "no."  This is so true for my SIL.  She does not like to be told "no."  She doesn't even like "yes" if it's not the "yes" she wants to hear.    What was funny, too, was that it made me think of one of my brothers --not the one that married the NPD.  But he was the same way with me ---manipulative and would get very angry if I told him no.  But I don't think he's narcissistic in the way SIL is.

He does describe it as normal to respond to a narcissist with self-doubt.  I have to admit, it makes me feel good when someone says that the way I respond to a difficult person is "normal."  But I really don't see my self-doubt as normal or healthy.  I've improved a lot since when I first met her.  But I still consider myself to be slow to realizing when she's crossed a boundary.  And when we're starting off having a normal interaction, I easily slip into responding to her like she's a normal person... .and then all of a sudden, whoops, she crossed a boundary.  But my brain is in thrown into confusion and it takes a few hours before I can sort out why.  

[JNChell]

Hi, Pilpel. I understand the delay. It’s normal when we’ve been exposed to trauma. It’s that damn fight or flight thing that always gets in the way.

But I think I struggled with self-doubt for too long.

How long and why? If you’re comfortable, what happened here?

[Harri]

Hi Pilpel.  It is good to hear from you.  

Like you, I think his message about people not knowing when their boundaries have been crossed is very applicable to a lot of us here on the board.  That part really resonates with me and I think overall his message is good sometimes.  I've watched his videos in the past and I remember him saying he came from a very dysfunctional family and also was in a relationship with someone he thought had BPD so he is very easy to relate to.  He gets it.

Pilpel wrote:

He does describe it as normal to respond to a narcissist with self-doubt.  I have to admit, it makes me feel good when someone says that the way I respond to a difficult person is "normal."  But I really don't see my self-doubt as normal or healthy.  I've improved a lot since when I first met her.  But I still consider myself to be slow to realizing when she's crossed a boundary.  And when we're starting off having a normal interaction, I easily slip into responding to her like she's a normal person... .and then all of a sudden, whoops, she crossed a boundary.  But my brain is in thrown into confusion and it takes a few hours before I can sort out why.

I agree that the self doubt is not healthy, but I do think it is normal/understandable for those of us who have a poor understanding of boundaries and let others violates our all the time.  There is another aspect to that to though.  We often violate the boundaries of others as a result of the way we were raised.  So if someone gets upset with the 'say no test' they can get upset without us being bothered by it... .if we had good boundaries.

Does that make sense?

 

P.S. Unfortunately, Richard Grannon often uses junk psychology and terms popular in the v-blogger community like malignant narcissist and cluster Bs and did one video titled something like Zombie Vampire People (!) while failing to provide more accurate psychologically based information that is educational and helpful.  It is unfortunate because I think he does have good intentions in terms of trying to help people but I see little value in over the top or inaccurate descriptions.  The problem comes in when people do not know the difference between the good and accurate part of his message and what should be disregarded.  *He is not a consistently dependable resource*.  

[Libra]

Pilpel,

Thank you for sharing. Though he may not always be a dependable source, his video did set me to thinking.

I tried to imagine myself simply saying no to a request my mom might ask of me. Even for an outrageous request, I strongly suspect I would not be able to manage it. Not without fear of confrontation, possible silent treatment and/or rage, and not without JADE.

I have a long way to go before feeling strong and confident enough to perform this 'easy' test.

Libra.

[Skip]

He does describe it as normal to respond to a narcissist with self-doubt.  I have to admit, it makes me feel good when someone says that the way I respond to a difficult person is "normal."  But I really don't see my self-doubt as normal or healthy.

The more conventional way to say this is the self-doubt is a common reaction to prolonged exposure to narcissist style of interaction. Passive aggressiveness is another common response. Of course, bleeding is a common response to being shot.   So, you are right, Pilpel, its not a healthy response, it is a common response... .one we can try to overcome/manage. Knowing that it is a common reaction is reassuring.

As for the test, another way to look at this is that we all operate with multiple schemas or personalities. We have one schema when we feel safe and in control. We have another schema when we are threatened. We may have another schema when we are stressed. Personality disorders are described as specific sets of schemas.  You can take the test here and see your schema to get an idea how this works.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=202548.0

While I think the "no test" is a not-so-reliable test at all, it is true that if you do something to flip someone into one of their alternate schema, you will see another side of them and it can be dark if they have a personality disorder.

This is a reliable description of  NPD traits. You will notice that it does include "entitlement" (Gannon says it doesn't) and its doesn't include dramatic (Gannon says it does). Watching video can be helpful because some of these guys have interesting thoughts, but its important to do a little research with members ti make sure it not nonsense. Going to the source is also helpful.
https://bpdfamily.com/content/narcissistic-personality-disorder

Good thread.