When I got home, my family was gone | Part 4

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I've got a legal thread here where I'm dealing with most of the parenting, custody, and financial stuff - It's  here if you want to take a look at it.

My last thread on Detaching is here - It's all going to hit me one day, but for now I'm getting things done

I wrote that post on May 7th, which was a little over a week ago.

On the night of May 8th, I decided to write a post to my friends on Facebook. I disclosed my pending divorce, gave a little back story, and thanked everyone for their support and talked about being excited for a new start. The outpouring of love and compassion and support from my friends and family was just phenomenal. I can't tell you how amazing it all made me feel to know that I had such great friends who cared and were happy to see me coping so well.

Now, I have over one hundred friends on Facebook. I've known each and every one of them in "real life" at some point in my life. Some I've been in touch with recently, including the former romantic partner I spoke about. She and I still talk very occasionally, but it's kind of clear that this friend is repeating the same pattern from the past. I felt loved, and I still feel the connection, but that faded quickly.

But on the night of May 9th, another friend I knew when I was 9 or 10 years old, send me an instant message out of the blue. We had no prior romantic involvement, but I certainly "noticed" her when we were younger. She said to me, basically, I know what you're going through. I want you to know I'm here if you want to talk. My marriage is ending in a very similar way, so I'm sorry you're facing it too. I was both happy to hear a friend reach out, but also sad to hear about her marriage.

I responded.

10 hours later, we wrapped up our extremely mutual, two sided conversation where we both shared the details of our partner's behaviors, the things we were experiencing, the things we were doing to prepare for our divorces, the things our children - my D4, her D3 and S5 - were going through. We both had legal nuptial agreements to deal with that were extremely one-sided and very unfavorable.

Long story short, we hit it off. Big time.

For the next few days, we talked constantly. I asked questions, she answered. She asked questions, I answered. We had mutual attraction, clearly. We remembered vivid details all the way back to our childhood years. We both knew about BPD and NPD. I was constantly checking my feelings, wondering if this was just a fling. I kept wondering if I was falling into another BPD / NPD trap - love bombing, desire to be rescued.

I really don't think so. I really think this person is the real deal.

So, we agree to meet. We're both being extremely cautious. Our divorces are brand new. We're both really vulnerable. We both know to take things slow, to get to know each other. But neither of us can deny the feelings we feel.

This morning was that meeting, and oh my goodness, it was amazing. I said this to her today, and I meant it - I've only ever felt what I felt today 2 other times in my life - once with my first love in High School, and then again when my daughter was born.

Look, I am fully aware of exactly how vulnerable I am right now to exactly this kind of thing. I know that I'm not "healed" or "cured" of all the bad behaviors and dysfunctional relationship tools I've used in the past. But each and every step of this, I've taken a deep breath - I've said things like, "don't say what you think she wants to hear, just say what you feel" and "you cannot rescue her. Do NOT try and rescue her." And, for her part, she's doing the same thing - she's not looking to be rescued, nor is she trying to rescue me. We know we need to heal, so we're both seeking our own support - therapists, counselors, all that stuff.

I will also add, I was NOT looking for this. I was NOT prepared to start looking for dates until a LONG time from now. But this just... .happened! Neither of us wanted to go as far as we did, but we just kept falling further and further for each other.

I don't know - am I deluding myself? Is this doomed to failure? I know you don't know any more than I do. But what do I look out for here, other than what I already am? What if this is the one? I'm not just going to say no! I don't feel like saying No even if I should, so I'm not sure I could even say it if I "had" to!

All I know is that I feel happier today than I have in over 22 years, for many reasons. One is her. The other is just life and being free from my relationship that was so toxic.

But a huge part is definitely her   When I got home, my family was gone | Part 1
When I got home, my family was gone | Part 2
When I got home, my family was gone | Part 3
When I got home, my family was gone | Part 4
When I got home, my family was gone | Part 5
When I got home, my family was gone | Part 6

[DaddyBear77]

I've got a legal thread here where I'm dealing with most of the parenting, custody, and financial stuff - It's  here if you want to take a look at it.

My last thread on Detaching is here - It's all going to hit me one day, but for now I'm getting things done

I wrote that post on May 7th, which was a little over a week ago.

On the night of May 8th, I decided to write a post to my friends on Facebook. I disclosed my pending divorce, gave a little back story, and thanked everyone for their support and talked about being excited for a new start. The outpouring of love and compassion and support from my friends and family was just phenomenal. I can't tell you how amazing it all made me feel to know that I had such great friends who cared and were happy to see me coping so well.

Now, I have over one hundred friends on Facebook. I've known each and every one of them in "real life" at some point in my life. Some I've been in touch with recently, including the former romantic partner I spoke about. She and I still talk very occasionally, but it's kind of clear that this friend is repeating the same pattern from the past. I felt loved, and I still feel the connection, but that faded quickly.

But on the night of May 9th, another friend I knew when I was 9 or 10 years old, send me an instant message out of the blue. We had no prior romantic involvement, but I certainly "noticed" her when we were younger. She said to me, basically, I know what you're going through. I want you to know I'm here if you want to talk. My marriage is ending in a very similar way, so I'm sorry you're facing it too. I was both happy to hear a friend reach out, but also sad to hear about her marriage.

I responded.

10 hours later, we wrapped up our extremely mutual, two sided conversation where we both shared the details of our partner's behaviors, the things we were experiencing, the things we were doing to prepare for our divorces, the things our children - my D4, her D3 and S5 - were going through. We both had legal nuptial agreements to deal with that were extremely one-sided and very unfavorable.

Long story short, we hit it off. Big time.

For the next few days, we talked constantly. I asked questions, she answered. She asked questions, I answered. We had mutual attraction, clearly. We remembered vivid details all the way back to our childhood years. We both knew about BPD and NPD. I was constantly checking my feelings, wondering if this was just a fling. I kept wondering if I was falling into another BPD / NPD trap - love bombing, desire to be rescued.

I really don't think so. I really think this person is the real deal.

So, we agree to meet. We're both being extremely cautious. Our divorces are brand new. We're both really vulnerable. We both know to take things slow, to get to know each other. But neither of us can deny the feelings we feel.

This morning was that meeting, and oh my goodness, it was amazing. I said this to her today, and I meant it - I've only ever felt what I felt today 2 other times in my life - once with my first love in High School, and then again when my daughter was born.

Look, I am fully aware of exactly how vulnerable I am right now to exactly this kind of thing. I know that I'm not "healed" or "cured" of all the bad behaviors and dysfunctional relationship tools I've used in the past. But each and every step of this, I've taken a deep breath - I've said things like, "don't say what you think she wants to hear, just say what you feel" and "you cannot rescue her. Do NOT try and rescue her." And, for her part, she's doing the same thing - she's not looking to be rescued, nor is she trying to rescue me. We know we need to heal, so we're both seeking our own support - therapists, counselors, all that stuff.

I will also add, I was NOT looking for this. I was NOT prepared to start looking for dates until a LONG time from now. But this just... .happened! Neither of us wanted to go as far as we did, but we just kept falling further and further for each other.

I don't know - am I deluding myself? Is this doomed to failure? I know you don't know any more than I do. But what do I look out for here, other than what I already am? What if this is the one? I'm not just going to say no! I don't feel like saying No even if I should, so I'm not sure I could even say it if I "had" to!

All I know is that I feel happier today than I have in over 22 years, for many reasons. One is her. The other is just life and being free from my relationship that was so toxic.

But a huge part is definitely her   When I got home, my family was gone | Part 1
When I got home, my family was gone | Part 2
When I got home, my family was gone | Part 3
When I got home, my family was gone | Part 4
When I got home, my family was gone | Part 5
When I got home, my family was gone | Part 6

[Panda39]

Both I and my SO got in touch with people from our past during our divorces.  For us obviously those contacts were transitional.

But they were beneficial, we were reminded that we were loveable, that we were attractive, we practiced our long dormant flirting/dating skills, we were reminded of who we were before we met our spouses and went down the path to co-dependency, and in my case following my divorce I paid a visit to the man from my past and Panda got her groove on (He was an emotionally safe person for me to do this with).  

Ultimately though, they were not the right person for us just as they hadn't been in the past.  The man from my past was my first love who in the end cheated on me back in the day, and who for the next 30 years went through women at an alarming (to me) rate.  I was his first and longest relationship (10 years).  He was struggling with being single and childless at 50 and had an idealized view of me so he was interested in seeing if there was anything between us just as I was.  But in the end we were not a good match.  I will love him for all of my days both because of our past (16-25 years old) and for his love and support during my divorce (he truly did give me the very best he was capable of for the year we re-connected), but he never was and won't ever be the right person for me.

My advice is enjoy this and stretch those unused dating/relationship muscles, don't plan for the future right now, just be in the present... .just be.

Panda39

[DaddyBear77]

Panda, that is truly amazing advice, especially as someone who’s been there, done that.

I can’t ignore the past nor can i live in the future. I have so much to do in the present.

Thank you.

[rj47]

I will also add, I was NOT looking for this. I was NOT prepared to start looking for dates until a LONG time from now. But this just... .happened! Neither of us wanted to go as far as we did, but we just kept falling further and further for each other.

I don't know - am I deluding myself? Is this doomed to failure? I know you don't know any more than I do. But what do I look out for here, other than what I already am? What if this is the one? I'm not just going to say no! I don't feel like saying No even if I should, so I'm not sure I could even say it if I "had" to!

Your story sounds somewhat similar to mine. I met someone by accident on an on-line support group. We became good friends and got to know each other over a year via e-mail, phone, and Skype before I got on a plane. The wrinkle is that she had joined the group thinking she might have BPD. Her severe NPD/Paranoid former spouse had tried to convince her of it. Imagine what I was thinking. But after living with a diagnosed BPDw for decades I had been looking for the signs anyway. Nothing.

So, I risked a trip and was ready to jump on the first plane home... .our first date lasted 5 amazing days. We've had 14 in total lasting up to a month at a time. Coming out of long term abusive relationships we both struggled to open up and trust. But, the shackles have been off for a long time. Six months face time together, 3 calls a day, date nights on Skype for hours when we're apart. I have no worries. For me, getting to know her circle of friends and family was important. Ours has been a difficult transition but healthy. We live on opposite sides of the Atlantic so the exit was always the boarding gate. I'm glad I took the risk. I was fortunate to accidently connect with someone incredible that I've grown to love and appreciate greatly.

We can become so wrapped up in our fear of making a bad decision that we can allow the cognitive oversight to shut down what the heart tells us is right. Trust and stay open, but verify.

[flourdust]

Well... .

There's a reason that personal relationships are strongly discouraged in therapeutic settings (such as DBT groups) and on the boards here. The intimacy of exposing our deepest emotional vulnerabilities can easily become another type of intimacy -- but it's based on therapeutic need, not the intellectual and emotional connection between two healthy, independent individuals.

I see a lot of   here -- flaming ones. Maybe this will be a short-term therapeutic relationship for both of you. That's the best possible outcome, I suspect.

When I started the divorce process, I imposed a 12 month moratorium on any kind of dating. I wasn't ready to be in a healthy relationship, and I needed to focus on building a new and stable life for myself and my daughter before I added any new emotional entanglement into the mix.

Try to think clearly about this, man. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but the warning signs look incredibly obvious out here.

[DaddyBear77]

So, flourdust, can you elaborate on which    you see here in my story?

Yes, there is risk. No, we’re not moving in together tomorrow   

My priority is absolutely my daughter, and nothing will interfere. I get that. I know that pouring energy into a relationship at this point has the strong potential to derail my efforts. 

What else am I missing? Let’s turn this into a learning opportunity.

[ozmatoz]

Keep up the fight DB.  I just had my four way meeting this week.  As you can imagine a ton of crap was thrown my way.  She wants 50/50 on the kids, but for me to pay CS as if she was primary... .all while she only wants to work 20 hours a week.

Wait... what?  She wants me to have the kids more than I ever had (while keeping a 40+hr a week job), pay her more so she can work half time? 

Laughable.  So many other ridiculous things she claims I have to cover 100% (including tuition)... .and she says take her deal or take my chances at a trial... .all while crying about spending too much money on attorneys.

My point is is that it is very clear all sorts of crap will continue to get thrown at you.  Frankly I find the more ridiculous it is the easier it is to ignore it.  But like you I really don't want to drag this out.  I want to move on with my life.  I'd like to find someone to share love... .

So at what point to you "give a little"?  At what point does giving them some of the unbalanced and unfair things they want actually become plausible.  I'm struggling with what I can live with now to get the F out of this versus how I'll feel about these things 5-10 years from now.

What is your price of freedom?

Walking with you man, take care.
-Oz

[Turkish]

It's nice to feel loved being so long wandering the desert of unlove. When Napoleon marched his troops across the desert sands and finally reached the waters of the Nile, some died by slaking their thirsts too much. 

I see nothing wrong with keeping in touch, but you have a lot in process now.  Don't lose your focus.  I'd say the same to her. 

[ozmatoz]

DB, I don't have any advice to give.  I'm just going to walk next to you on this one.

I can relate to feeling connections again.  I can relate to finding someone to talk to.
I can relate to assuming that everyone I meet must pass a BPD filter... .

Over the last few months as my pending divorce has become more known I have had a bunch of old friends reach out.  Now that I'm not wearing a ring and not (terribly) afraid to talk to women again I can't believe how many times I've been flirted with or hit on. 

It feels nice, but I'm terribly cautious.  Trying to juggle two relationships may suck the energy needed to finish out the one relationship that needs to end.

Someone once said to me "The heart wants what the heart wants"  I took that as advice to listen to my heart again.  For so long I was taxing my brain and getting stomped on trying to figure out my r/s w/stbx I forgot what it was like to feel.

I'll quiet down now and let others pass on advice... .

good luck,
-Oz

[flourdust]

  #1: You are currently in transition from a long and toxic marriage to a pwBPD where you exhibited extreme co-dependent traits to the beginning of a divorce process that already promises to be high-conflict and protracted. Your financial future and parenting future are both at risk, and you've got a long, rough road ahead of you. You are simply not ready to be a healthy participant in a healthy relationship, and a healthy woman would recognize that in a hot second.

  #2: Despite that, you've been connecting on social media with two women you have pre-existing histories with - in one case, it's an ex, and the other is a girl you had a childhood crush on. If you were truly trying to date (which is not a good idea, see  #1), you'd get out there and meet new people. Focusing on women from your past is a move to seek comfort in regressing to the familiar and safe.

  #3: What I said above about what a healthy woman would do? Your new (old) friend is doing the opposite. She's also exiting a toxic marriage. A healthy man would recognize she is not good relationship material.

  #4: Ten hours of co-ruminating about your awful marriages as a first date? C'mon, do I really need to tell you why this is a flaming red flag?

  #5: "We both know to take things slow... .  So, we agree to meet. We're both being extremely cautious. Our divorces are brand new. We're both really vulnerable. But neither of us can deny the feelings we feel." Every sentence in here contradicts the one before. You aren't acting from  wisemind.

  #6: "All I know is that I feel happier today than I have in over 22 years, for many reasons. One is her. The other is just life and being free from my relationship that was so toxic. But a huge part is definitely her." Yeah, it's gotta feel great to get some positive attention and begin to fantasize about a romantic relationship with someone new. Fantasies are OK, as long as you don't try to turn them into reality. And I should point out from your timeline that it has been a whopping eight days since you connected with this woman.

You're not healthy. She's not healthy. Neither of you are making good decisions. The consequences to bad decisions can include harming both of your divorce cases and your relationship with your child. (I didn't catch if she has kids or not.)

By all means, co-ruminate with this friend. A little venting to each other can be very validating. But put a stop to the rest of this, and be upfront with her about why you need to do this. That's my best advice for you.

[Radcliff]

Oz and DB, the point you guys are at (particularly Oz since he's a little farther along) is where folks coming out of abusive relationships are liable to give too much to just get free.  Make it as cold and rational a calculation as possible, with the guidance of your lawyer.  Don't give too much.  Look out for the "rebuilding" Oz and DB of five years from now, regarding the best solutions for parenting and money issues.

WW

[DaddyBear77]

Thanks flourdust. You put a lot of passion behind your post and i sincerely appreciate that. Your points about wisemind are particularly useful. You’ve put things into perspective for me.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey DaddyBear, You've been through a lot, with rough sledding ahead.  It's nice that you've found someone to compare notes with, but let's face it: you're in a fragile state, which is a good reason to take your time before jumping headlong into a new r/s.  If your new friend is right for you, I suspect she'll respect you more if you're honest about the need to take your time before getting too involved at this juncture.  You have a lot on your plate already, as I'm sure she can appreciate.

LuckyJim

[Notwendy]

I agree with the posters who have advised you to go slow but I have not been in your shoes, reeling from the emotional trauma of a divorce and so try not to assume anything about how you must be feeling. However, I can share some things I have read.

One of the statements from a book ( Passionate Marriage- not just about BPD) that struck a chord is that- we choose a partner who matches our capability for an emotionally healthy relationship. And the next line was "each of the partners think he/she is more emotionally together ( the book uses the term differentiation)  than their partner"

This doesn't mean you have BPD but that immediately out of a relationship you "match" your STBX wife at the level of emotional health in some ways.

I took a long look in the mirror at myself now and when I was single and cringed at the co-dependent behaviors I had and this affected who I felt a strong connection to and attraction to. Thankfully I didn't date really bad guys, in fact they had some great qualities, but they were basically wounded souls- people who were hurting, and I was a wounded soul as well from being raised with dysfunction. We may or may not have discussed the wounds but we felt them and this was our bond and some dysfunction felt familiar and comfortable to me. I realized that my "attraction" meter was set to attract other emotionally hurting people. To have an emotionally stable relationship. I felt I needed to work on my own dysfunctional traits, regardless of my relationship status.

If I could summarize what happened in one  for you it would be: you are hurting and you met someone who is also hurting and the initial euphoria of a new relationship feels healing. I can't tell you what is good for you right now- this is your journey to choose and the heart wants what it wants. Just don't lose sight of your own wise mind.

[prof]

DB, I'm going to chime in with the others and urge you to focus on your most important relationship right now -- yourself.

That being said, I've seen this story work out okay before.  My dad and stepmom were old friends who reconnected while both going through a divorce, and they've been married over 15 years now.

You might also think a bit more about your decision to stay active on social media.  Deleting your accounts is #7 in the Quick-Start Guide in Splitting.  Personally, I've found being away from Facebook during my divorce completely liberating.  I've decided to wait until 2019 at the very least until I return, and I may not even do that!

[once removed]

i couldnt have put it any better or more succinctly than flourdust.

youre new to the Detaching board, and i can tell you this is one of the most common stories that led people here. you cant short circuit the grieving process. this is a decades long marriage. it needs to be fully grieved.

im not going to reiterate it or harp on it. i wouldnt listen if i were you.

what i might listen to, and hope you will, is that likely, if this crashes and burns, its going to hurt badly, and compound your grief. you do have some control over that. you can get clear on if this is a therapeutic bond/relationship where you both help each other heal (through words and hugs), or whether it has the potential to be a long term romantic relationship. i cant discourage making it both, enough.

[GaGrl]

DB, I would think that your STBX's grad degree being finished soon would be a point in your favor re: alimony also. It's not as if she needs your support to prepare herself for a new career or a return to work - she just needs support for a reasonable period while she finds work. Reasonable being the operative word.

[livednlearned]

Look out for the "rebuilding" Oz and DB of five years from now, regarding the best solutions for parenting and money issues.

This is good advice.

You will go through these psychological hurdles and become more and more resilient, especially if you stick with therapy and do the work.

You don't want to be feeling fairly healed up in 5 years while still stuck with a bargain you struck during your lowest points.

This isn't about being aggressive, though. It's about being assertive and knowing what is both right and reasonable and fair.

Guilt and obligation and fear seems to go away the better you feel about yourself 

[Radcliff]

DB, I would think that your STBX's grad degree being finished soon would be a point in your favor re: alimony also. It's not as if she needs your support to prepare herself for a new career or a return to work - she just needs support for a reasonable period while she finds work. Reasonable being the operative word.

This is good advice.  I think in many (most?) states, certainly in mine, whether one spouse has supported the other while he/she is getting an education is an enumerated factor in determining spousal support.

WW

[ozmatoz]

Oz and DB, the point you guys are at (particularly Oz since he's a little farther along) is where folks coming out of abusive relationships are liable to give too much to just get free.  Make it as cold and rational a calculation as possible, with the guidance of your lawyer.  Don't give too much.  Look out for the "rebuilding" Oz and DB of five years from now, regarding the best solutions for parenting and money issues.

WW

Solid advice WW.  My lawyer is doing a good job of trying to keep me out of agreement "creep". She also knows I don't want to leave my stbx unable to care for herself. Because in the end if she can't make it on her own the kids and all this bs will just boomerang back at me to deal with all over again in another year or two. 

Reality is we're only around $4k/year off in requested support. Frankly its a small price to pay... .but multiply that by a minimum 6 years until D16 is off, then another possible 6 years if D11 is healthy enough to go to college.  Stbx wants it put into CS payments (off guidelines).  I want to keep guideline support but get that money to her in other ways such as covering the uninsured medical, taking on more tuition and extra curricular.  Basically my lawyer doesn't want the CS agreement to be so high in case it goes for an adjustment later.  She's also afraid that if I agree to the higher CS payment stbx will ask for me to ALSO cover the extras... .  I can live with a $4k extra hit.  No more.

I dont mean to hijack DB's thread just thought I would share some of the details I'm going through in case it helps him and others with negotiations.

I would say TGIF, but I'm not looking forward to this weekend.  I have the kids Saturday because stbx has "plans" for the afternoon and evening.  Was also just informed that she "may or may not" make it home Saturday night... .  translated to: "I have a date".
Awesome, I cannot wait to be replaced.

[BeagleGirl]

DaddyBear,
I know it may not feel like it when your heart is rebelling against what people are saying to you, but I know there are a lot of people here that really care about you and are speaking from that place of care and concern.  I spent the last two weeks trying to remind myself of just that, since I've been dealing with similar feelings/thoughts about a new relationship that those who love me are raising red flags about.

I think the red flags have been pretty well covered by other posters so I want to share a little about the benefit of waiting -

Depending on when you start the clock, I'm about 16 months ahead of you on this journey.  While the actual divorce process only started 3 months ago, I've been living "on my own" for 16 months and have 11 months of legal process (legal separation) behind me.  I am anticipating the judge's sign off on my divorce petition any day now (husband consented and all the custody and financial agreements were done in the legal separation process).  I have every reason to believe that I will be "single" some time next week.

These have been incredibly painful months, but I know that pain has been necessary.  I know I still have more grieving and healing to do, but right now I also need to be cautious to not bring "unnecessary suffering" upon myself because I am starting to feel "healed enough" to be very vulnerable to moving too far too fast.

So from a few miles down the road you're travelling, I can see some milestones that you have yet to pass that could make a huge difference in the health of any future relationship.  Here are a few things I have under my belt that you don't (yet) that I think are pretty important:

1.  I know when I will be free to remarry
2.  I know what my custody arrangement looks like, which means I know what time I have available for giving to another person.
3.  I am much less impacted (emotionally, physically, financially) by what my stbxhusband does.  That means I have a much better handle on what I have to offer another person in all those areas.
4.  I have shown my sons that I will be there for them, whether they like it or not (this is a direct quote from the mother's day card I got from my younger son).  There is no confusion or fear that I will be distracted and unavailable when they need me because I've "moved on" from my relationship with their dad (and them) with someone else. 
5.  I am getting to the point of being able to see more honestly what my role was in the dysfunction and breakdown of my marriage. 
6.  I don't feel the driving need to tell people why my marriage failed or about the latest horrible thing my stbxh did.  Date conversations will be much better. 
7.  I know I can survive those horrible spells of loneliness that have hit.  I don't need someone to take that loneliness away (though I would have begged for it at the time) for me to survive and prosper. 
8.  I know who my friends are.  I know who has stuck by me through the thick of all of this and will be there for me as I venture into any new relationships.  I know they will tell me the truth and that I will be wise to hear it.

There are a lot more things that I may summarize, but for now I just want to say that I'm here for you no matter what you decide.  I hope you decide to put the brakes on and test the strength of this connection by committing to wait until some of these milestones have passed for both of you, but if you decide to move forward with the relationship we're still here for the good and bad just as you have been there for us.
BeagleGirl

[livednlearned]

What else am I missing? Let’s turn this into a learning opportunity.

Might be helpful for you to summarize what people are saying, and perhaps repeat it back here.  

My two cents.  

FWIW, people here cautioned me about dating my current SO.

When we met, I was 2 years out of my marriage and mid point with custody battles, which lasted a total of 4 years.

SO was fresh out of his marriage, also to someone with BPD.

We've been together 6 years, moved in together 2 years ago, and are getting married this summer.

I took the advice here to heart.

Do you think you're able to hit the pause button on this relationship? Or end it, if it was the best thing for you (longterm)?

[Harley Quinn]

Hi DB,

You've had great responses to this thread, and I just wanted to add one thing I picked up in your earlier posts.  These may not be your exact words, but I distinctly remember your stating that you were afraid of being alone.  I'd urge you to think about how much that affects your current feelings on the options before you right now. 

I'm a die hard romantic at heart who is easily caught up by 'when lightning strikes' moments and also believe that everything happens for a reason.  The reason I think you've reunited with this woman is to test your willingness to go through the process of getting better.  It's my guess that your wife made you feel pretty special when you first met too and this may just be a chance to not repeat history, and instead take the time you need to properly grieve and go through the difficult feelings that are so uncomfortable that it's attractive to bypass them. 

Know yourself DB and know that what is good for you is not always what seems most attractive or feels the best in the short term.  You need to be your number one priority at present, alongside your daughter.  If this is a connection that will stand the test of time, then there is no rush.  A prospective partner who is healthy themselves will respect your wishes and encourage you to do the self work and create a secure arrangement for your child before considering getting involved with someone new.  My advice to you would be to find out how that is received and I believe that will tell you all you need to know.

Whatever you decide to do, we will all be rooting for a positive outcome for you and be here in your corner the whole time.

Love and light x 

[DaddyBear77]

I think I may, literally, print this post out and carry it with me for the next few years. It's that amazingly good. Thank you.

My emotions lately have been COMPLETELY whacky. It's like nothing else I've experienced. I think it was Skip who said to me at one point that the experience during divorce can mimic BPD - I totally get that now!

The bottom line is that I am going to slow this relationship way down - it's not going to be hard to do that - naturally we're going to need to both find our footing over and over again, which will pause things at various points anyway. But I'm also going to take some deliberate action, too. I just haven't figured that part out yet. Also, we still live quite a distance away from each other, and her ability to move quickly and suddenly is very limited. She needs to come down the road quite a bit in her own situation, and she needs to do it without me rescuing her. That's an urge I fight a lot. So there are some learning experiences in this relationship to be had, too, I think.

I do want to clear one thing up, though. It wasn't a 10 hour conversation where we co-ruminated. It was a little bit of comparing notes, but mostly it was talking about old times, I actually did quite a bit of bpdfamily-like discussion with her about NPD / BPD - she didn't really understand what was even going on with her husband. So that's another red flag in and of itself. I get it. I get it. I get it.

So again, everyone, sincerely, thank you. I'm going to go back and re-read this thread a few times now

[ForeverDad]

On the other hand, romances that are built on previous friendships can have real strength.  My thought is that you may find it beneficial to stay platonic for a while, friends looking forward to future romance, until each of you is through the worst of it.  You can support each other and build up trust, goodwill, and love as friends, and this can form the basis for later romance.  You may find this advice hard to follow... .

Give yourselves time to recover.  As they say, recovery is a process, not an event.  One measure of recovery I've suggested to others in the past (after first reading it here) is whether you can have dates or time together where the ex-spouse(s) and the problems they keep causing aren't the topic of conversation.  Frankly, I recall my early days, okay years, where I was often focused on lamenting about my ex and her endless antics and obstructions.

You're not alone, a few others here have reconnected with past friends and made it work, with a lot of work.  I did reconnect with someone I knew from my 20s, she had never married.  With the passage of over 3 decades, neither of us today is the person we were back then.  While nothing progressed relationshipwise (yes more about my issues) we are friends and I would venture to say I talk more frankly and more in depth than any other friend I have.

[Turkish]

Not to harp too much,  but see what you said here:

The bottom line is that I am going to slow this relationship way down - it's not going to be hard to do that - naturally we're going to need to both find our footing over and over again, which will pause things at various points anyway.

Is it? Or friendship? Budding friendship?

[Panda39]

Interesting distinction.  I would have never described what I was doing back then as a "relationship".  It was a testing of some water... .was there potential for a relationship? Turns out there wasn't and I was okay with that.

Panda39

[Skip]

The Legal Deposition


DB, what sexual partners have you had since you were married.
What is their name, address and phone number.
How long have you known this person.
When did the relationship begin.
When and where did you have sex... .

Discovery: DaddyBear, 30 days ago you were surprised with a divorce petition and you wife has already signaled that she wants primary custody and she is going to throw everything she can at you to get it.

A romantic relationship this early in the game can't be concealed.  It will be asked in the discovery and the deposition. They can discover phone records, emails, texts, etc.  They can deposition her to compare details. Many will suspect that this has been going on - who get involved this quickly - and you have known her - and you will be on the defensive demonstrating not.

Jealousy:  When you disclose it, it has a very high likelihood of triggering jealousy and reprisal from you wife. She can become more combative, she can drag it through the court case, and she can bait you with it... .shame you.

Children's reaction:  she can tell your already traumatized children... .and they may very well want to protect mommy from "daddy's replacement mommy".

Your crazy emotions: You said, my emotions lately have been COMPLETELY whacky. How will you handle the above.

Not your "A" game You have a tough case and re-establishing a stable relationship with your children will require focus... .failing in love with someone is a huge emotional distraction... .

You may want to explore considerations as you sort through this... .

[Grey Kitty]

I've got $.02 in a different direction for you here:

You've had some advice that you probably aren't ready for a long term relationship right now, and neither is this woman you found. (Flourdust described a lot of good reasons)

That said, a short term transitional relationship can be a very good thing. Fun while you do it. Runs its course. You end things fairly amicably when they run their course. And are better off than you were before. (Among other things, you must be totally starved for affection, and overwhelmed by the least bit of love... .even if it isn't something crazy like love-bombing at the beginning of an unhealthy r/s!)

I'd suggest you discuss that possibility and be up front about it with her.

In other words, she has a good chance to be Ms. Right Now, even if she has a very small chance to be Ms. Right   

Taking it slow should mean not introducing her to your daughter for say, six months, perhaps not until you have the divorce and custody arrangement settled. Same with not meeting her kids.

(And talk to your legal team about what you want to avoid doing so you don't have to talk about it in a deposition, like Skip suggested... .)

[ForeverDad]

Usually when (or if) there is a deposition your lawyer will be present.  Always pause for a moment before answering in case your lawyer objects saying it isn't within the scope or is fishing or whatever.  The lawyers can ask whatever they want, doesn't mean you have to answer everything they ask.