Does my ex have BPD? Our story of repeated breakups

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

TO THE MODS: This is a very long account. Please move or delete as appropriate.


Hello,

I'm new to this forum.

My ex-girlfriend (10 yrs younger) suddenly broke up with me last week after a 2-yrs relationship (living together for the last 6 months). I'm currently moving out of the apartment and trying to process what happened - I'm writing this post to get your views but also because I hope writing everything down will help me "get it ouf my system"; to me, writing is processing. She has never been diagnosed with BPD, but I suspect she has it after reading about it but am seeking your opinions.

In the 1st part of this post, I'm providing a summary of how things stood between us and what seemed abnormal to me, and readers can decide if they want to read the full account of our story in the 2nd part.
Throughout, I try to describe what happened as objectively as possible and look forward to read your opinions, also on whether you think she has indeed BPD/and or some other illness.

I may share my own views and feelings in a 3rd upcoming part, but would prefer to wait for some feedback so as to not bias your own appreciation of my story.

Briefly about my background: I am a well-educated male (Ph.D. in economics, speak 3 languages) in his mid-thirties.


PART 1 - Summary of abnormal aspects in my relationship with my ex-girlfriend
- She started a therapy once, but broken it off after only a few months without any conclusion/diagnosis. It seems she's been living in denial of the need of diagnosis/therapy, despite me pushing her to go for it. She has never been diagnosed of any disorder, but her general practicioner put her on anti-depressants (Lexapro) and during emergency interventions she was suspected of BPD or bipolarity.
- Threatened with suicide during bouts of anger, but never actually harmed, not even cut herself (not that I know of)
- She had crises during which she hated how her face and body looked, and she even hit her head against walls. As a result of her complex, she underwent plastic surgeory (liposuction) and contemplated further surgeries.
- At the beginning, she pursued and idealized me, and it was the most harmonious time in our relationship.
- Power struggles began with the first breakup. In the first two breakups, in hindsight, it is as if they had been means to make me increase my committment.
- Can't bear slightest criticism: She gets incredibly angry over benign remarks, like for example me asking her to wash her hands before dinner
- Badmouthing me: immediately reports such things "I do to her" to her parents and friends, framing me as a terrible person who makes her feel bad, depressed
- Lies to appear better (e.g. about work performance, or the long hours she worked), more beautiful (fake semi-naked pics during courtship), more exciting (pics of activities on her social media that are borrowed from other accounts); and lied to manipulate me (e.g., that she needed a flat because her room at her parents' house was to be given to grandma)
- Relationship to her parents is abnormally close for her age. At the slightest issue, she calls them and they come to her "rescue". She uses them for daily tasks, even as chauffeurs. She tells them everything that's going on in our relationship. They intervened numerous times when we had a fights, and I found myself sitting at a table against the three of them. In the ensuing deliberations, parents did their best to appear impartial, but any distress she was experiencing was in the end portrayed as if the resolution was up to me rather than up to her.
- Her bad feelings/depressions are framed like they are all my fault. If I behaved better and gave her what she needed, she wouldn't feel that bad.
- Parents were shockingly uncritical, never questioning her views. At the contrary, they all seemed to view me as the culprit for her feeling bad. E.g., she would tell them "I feel so bad again coming home from work, because he did/didn't do this or that... .or there is tension between us I cannot bear"
- To give you an idea of what I invested in her: I gave her money for a 3-months language school in Mexico; helped her finish her Bachelor's degree by completing one of her (take-home) exams; write applications; find a job; keep the job by spending a lot of time showing her how to do it more efficiently, and once driving her to an appointment 500 miles away. Despite two prior breakups for incomprehensible reasons and her pursuing other men during separation, I accepted to move in with her
- Ungratefulness: Despite doing a lot to help this girl grow on all fronts, I never felt lasting gratitude from her or her parents; at the contrary, I was always made to believe that I was not doing enough, quickly enough. Of course I was reluctant before every major escalation (moving in, marriage,... .) in our relationship, part of it having to do with me being cautious given her extreme, unpredictible behaviors.
- In fights, when I argued that "I have already done SO MUCH for you and now also need to concentrate on my work", she replied "So are you saying I haven't given you as much in return?"; when I pressed her, she was never able to tell me what she had done for me, which was fine, since I knew I had met her as a "damsel in distress", I was older and more settled, and it was ok for me to give more. But she rejected that view, arguing that her "love", time and warmth had to be of the same value as what I did and we were contributing equally, which clearly wasn't the case.
- Breakup pattern: always harsh and unexpected, for no comprehensible reason. Surely she stated some vague reasons, but they wouldn't make sense assuing she loves her partner. It didn't matter if she had told me her love and made plans with me just shortly before. After the breakup, she seemed to go on about her life quite unfazed, pursuing new (or old) guys. Any re-engagement with me always resulted from me making the first step and making promises.
- Not loyal: kept in touch with her ex; pursued other guys while broken up (slept with one)
- Entitled attitude towards fancy restaurants, clothes, all provided by her man. Yet, she wanted equal say in the relationship, even if she became a housewife.
- Despised me for having to work when she felt overwhelmed
- When living together and beginning her first full-time job, she had a breakdown every other weekend
- Somewhat contradictory expectations: On the one hand wants me to lay the world to her feet (by spoiling her), i.e., make good money, on the other hand I'm supposed to have so much time on my hands to spend with her.





PART 2 - Full story
The courting phase
I met her 2.5 yrs ago via Tinder. We dated for a few weeks, the sex was the best I had ever had. She's a brunette with a great, voluptuous body and beautiful eyes. However, I was still processing my previous relationship and kept her at a distance and didn't even consider having her as my new girlfriend at that time. She sensed my reluctance to move on with her, and a few days after one of our nights of dating and lovemaking at my place and me not replying to a text she had sent me next day, she sent me another text saying it would be best to not continue seeing each other but that she was grateful to have met me. I replied cordially that this was fine, and in fact didn't care at that time and forgot about her.

Five weeks later, she recontacted me on a pretext (about my new Tinder profile she had spotted). At this point, we started texting quite intensely, exchanging a thousand of messages within a span of a month about our views, goals, etc... During that period she sent me semi-naked pics of her body. Thinking about it now, she was clearly courting me. (Later I found out through Google Reverse Image search, that many of the pictures she had sent me were actually not hers, including the sexy body pics)

The start of the relationship
Shortly after this texting phase and then going on a weekend trip together we became a couple, 6 months after our initial meeting. The first months of the relationship were overall among the best, most harmonious, and to me most fulfilling times we ever had. She was so much into me, looking at me with admiring eyes when I was sharing my views, telling me how manly I was, that indeed I was the manliest of all her exes. Evidently, this felt great to my ago, I felt like I finally found a very loving person who truly understood and "saw" me. I had been betrayed in my previous relationship by my soon to be ex-wife and a friend of ours (they had started an affair), and with her I felt a bit like I had finally "arrived". She was so warm and admiring, which felt so good, and we laughed a lot.

I was first made aware of any mental problems about 2 months into the relationship. She was still living at her parent's as she didn't have a stable job, not even properly completed her studies which had been staling for some time, and when I came to their house to pick her up on a Saturday night, she was sitting on the dinner table with a sad, empty look, not speaking a word, her mother by her. I was left without a clear explanation of what was going on, they just told me that her feeling depressed had come back now after a few years of absence. In hindsight, this may have been an understatement. She quickly felt better after seeing me, and she seemed alright again for a while. But that didn't last long. Recurring depressive episodes with me trying to console her became an integral part of our relationship. When she had one, on several occasions, the parents called me in the middle of the night to come to their daughter's help. Unfortunately, my ability to soothe her pain and make her feel better seemed to diminish over time, with the episodes getting longer and more intense.

It went on like this, so I suggested to them that she should go have herself checked, that she clearly couldn't go on like this untreated. About 5 months into the relationship she finally started to see a therapist. To sum it up, so far, I was happy about our relationship, I felt like we intensely loved each other, was only concerned about her depression but was optimistic things would go uphill now that she had begun treatment and when she would finally have a stable job. No BPD indication or abusive behaviour I was aware of so far.

Breakup no. 1
Then, about 9 months into our relationship, we had our first breakup (they were all initiated by her). To me, it was a sudden shock. I wasn't given any convincing reason, she hinted that I should have sensed that she wanted me to take her on a vacation. A few days after the breakup, she went on a 2-weeks summer trip to Mexico with a girl friend, kind of to give to herself what I had failed to provide (we had only vaguely planned for a trip before her break-up). It was all very painful to me because of the suddenness, lack of convincing explanation, and the impossibility to see her given her quick departure. Why would she go away on a vacation instead of staying and work things out with me, I asked myself.

My instincts of a loving male made me immediately pursue her, writing her a love letter and texts she replied to only very reluctantly if at all. At her return, she suggested we could meet up if I wanted, but that I should be warned that I wouldn't hear from her what I expected (that she would come back to me). The next weeks were in a limbo, and when I finally took her on a trip to Paris (we live in Germany, so it's not that far, but it was still a very nice, long trip), during that trip, we officially got back together. However, as I learned later on by spying on her phone when she wasn't around (I know I shouldn't), she had been exchanging texts with an old admirer during all that time, since the breakup and a good 3 weeks since we had reunited. From what I gathered, she met him only once during all that time, just before Paris, but probably didn't have sex with him; however their conversations had been VERY intimate, with her even mirroring his "I love you's" - he was sick of love for her, and still while she was on vacation with me, which of course she didn't mention to him. When I confronted her about it, she told me that it was a misunderstanding, that she had never really considered him at all, but that she had hoped to finally get a job through some contacts of his. She wished she had been able to let me in on this scheme but hadn't known how to approach it. Of course, the job thing had been his way to lure her. I believed that story only half, but decided to not give it any further importance. After all, she had broken it off with the other guy and focused on me. We went on another trip to south of France I also generously paid for. There, we discussed getting married 1 or 2 years from now, and then having children, which got her all excited and happy. This was another happy/idealization phase in our relationship, and she stated there was no way she would leave me again, that I was the first man she even considered getting married with, and that we should stay together forever. It was quite cheesy, but cute.

Looking back, I can tell that this break-up was when the light and funny part was over and the power game and abuses began. After coming back from our two summer vacations (the depressions had never stopped and she had had crises even while in beautiful Paris or right at the Côte d'Azur), it was made clear to me by the parents and herself, during some further crisis episodes, what she expected: her concept was that her man take care of her financially in general, and more concretely she asked me to pay for a 3-months language trip to Mexico, to travel the world and improve her Spanish - she reasoned that since we were supposed to stay together forever now, why wouldn't I want to support her development by doing so. I accepted and waited for her (also visited her during Christmas), as I so much wanted for this to succeed.

Before she left for Mexico, she broke off the therapy (which has remained inconclusive ever since), and I was also involved in writing applications and completing a take-home exam for her studies, so she could finally get her Bachelor's degree. I was the good boy, who, on top of coming to her aid during nightly crises, helped out on all fronts and fixed her life. After sending of her application package to a 100 companies, she flew off to Mexico, and it's during this absence that the next pressing demands emerged.

[Gavin09]

TO THE MODS: This is a very long account. Please move or delete as appropriate.


Hello,

I'm new to this forum.

My ex-girlfriend (10 yrs younger) suddenly broke up with me last week after a 2-yrs relationship (living together for the last 6 months). I'm currently moving out of the apartment and trying to process what happened - I'm writing this post to get your views but also because I hope writing everything down will help me "get it ouf my system"; to me, writing is processing. She has never been diagnosed with BPD, but I suspect she has it after reading about it but am seeking your opinions.

In the 1st part of this post, I'm providing a summary of how things stood between us and what seemed abnormal to me, and readers can decide if they want to read the full account of our story in the 2nd part.
Throughout, I try to describe what happened as objectively as possible and look forward to read your opinions, also on whether you think she has indeed BPD/and or some other illness.

I may share my own views and feelings in a 3rd upcoming part, but would prefer to wait for some feedback so as to not bias your own appreciation of my story.

Briefly about my background: I am a well-educated male (Ph.D. in economics, speak 3 languages) in his mid-thirties.


PART 1 - Summary of abnormal aspects in my relationship with my ex-girlfriend
- She started a therapy once, but broken it off after only a few months without any conclusion/diagnosis. It seems she's been living in denial of the need of diagnosis/therapy, despite me pushing her to go for it. She has never been diagnosed of any disorder, but her general practicioner put her on anti-depressants (Lexapro) and during emergency interventions she was suspected of BPD or bipolarity.
- Threatened with suicide during bouts of anger, but never actually harmed, not even cut herself (not that I know of)
- She had crises during which she hated how her face and body looked, and she even hit her head against walls. As a result of her complex, she underwent plastic surgeory (liposuction) and contemplated further surgeries.
- At the beginning, she pursued and idealized me, and it was the most harmonious time in our relationship.
- Power struggles began with the first breakup. In the first two breakups, in hindsight, it is as if they had been means to make me increase my committment.
- Can't bear slightest criticism: She gets incredibly angry over benign remarks, like for example me asking her to wash her hands before dinner
- Badmouthing me: immediately reports such things "I do to her" to her parents and friends, framing me as a terrible person who makes her feel bad, depressed
- Lies to appear better (e.g. about work performance, or the long hours she worked), more beautiful (fake semi-naked pics during courtship), more exciting (pics of activities on her social media that are borrowed from other accounts); and lied to manipulate me (e.g., that she needed a flat because her room at her parents' house was to be given to grandma)
- Relationship to her parents is abnormally close for her age. At the slightest issue, she calls them and they come to her "rescue". She uses them for daily tasks, even as chauffeurs. She tells them everything that's going on in our relationship. They intervened numerous times when we had a fights, and I found myself sitting at a table against the three of them. In the ensuing deliberations, parents did their best to appear impartial, but any distress she was experiencing was in the end portrayed as if the resolution was up to me rather than up to her.
- Her bad feelings/depressions are framed like they are all my fault. If I behaved better and gave her what she needed, she wouldn't feel that bad.
- Parents were shockingly uncritical, never questioning her views. At the contrary, they all seemed to view me as the culprit for her feeling bad. E.g., she would tell them "I feel so bad again coming home from work, because he did/didn't do this or that... .or there is tension between us I cannot bear"
- To give you an idea of what I invested in her: I gave her money for a 3-months language school in Mexico; helped her finish her Bachelor's degree by completing one of her (take-home) exams; write applications; find a job; keep the job by spending a lot of time showing her how to do it more efficiently, and once driving her to an appointment 500 miles away. Despite two prior breakups for incomprehensible reasons and her pursuing other men during separation, I accepted to move in with her
- Ungratefulness: Despite doing a lot to help this girl grow on all fronts, I never felt lasting gratitude from her or her parents; at the contrary, I was always made to believe that I was not doing enough, quickly enough. Of course I was reluctant before every major escalation (moving in, marriage,... .) in our relationship, part of it having to do with me being cautious given her extreme, unpredictible behaviors.
- In fights, when I argued that "I have already done SO MUCH for you and now also need to concentrate on my work", she replied "So are you saying I haven't given you as much in return?"; when I pressed her, she was never able to tell me what she had done for me, which was fine, since I knew I had met her as a "damsel in distress", I was older and more settled, and it was ok for me to give more. But she rejected that view, arguing that her "love", time and warmth had to be of the same value as what I did and we were contributing equally, which clearly wasn't the case.
- Breakup pattern: always harsh and unexpected, for no comprehensible reason. Surely she stated some vague reasons, but they wouldn't make sense assuing she loves her partner. It didn't matter if she had told me her love and made plans with me just shortly before. After the breakup, she seemed to go on about her life quite unfazed, pursuing new (or old) guys. Any re-engagement with me always resulted from me making the first step and making promises.
- Not loyal: kept in touch with her ex; pursued other guys while broken up (slept with one)
- Entitled attitude towards fancy restaurants, clothes, all provided by her man. Yet, she wanted equal say in the relationship, even if she became a housewife.
- Despised me for having to work when she felt overwhelmed
- When living together and beginning her first full-time job, she had a breakdown every other weekend
- Somewhat contradictory expectations: On the one hand wants me to lay the world to her feet (by spoiling her), i.e., make good money, on the other hand I'm supposed to have so much time on my hands to spend with her.





PART 2 - Full story
The courting phase
I met her 2.5 yrs ago via Tinder. We dated for a few weeks, the sex was the best I had ever had. She's a brunette with a great, voluptuous body and beautiful eyes. However, I was still processing my previous relationship and kept her at a distance and didn't even consider having her as my new girlfriend at that time. She sensed my reluctance to move on with her, and a few days after one of our nights of dating and lovemaking at my place and me not replying to a text she had sent me next day, she sent me another text saying it would be best to not continue seeing each other but that she was grateful to have met me. I replied cordially that this was fine, and in fact didn't care at that time and forgot about her.

Five weeks later, she recontacted me on a pretext (about my new Tinder profile she had spotted). At this point, we started texting quite intensely, exchanging a thousand of messages within a span of a month about our views, goals, etc... During that period she sent me semi-naked pics of her body. Thinking about it now, she was clearly courting me. (Later I found out through Google Reverse Image search, that many of the pictures she had sent me were actually not hers, including the sexy body pics)

The start of the relationship
Shortly after this texting phase and then going on a weekend trip together we became a couple, 6 months after our initial meeting. The first months of the relationship were overall among the best, most harmonious, and to me most fulfilling times we ever had. She was so much into me, looking at me with admiring eyes when I was sharing my views, telling me how manly I was, that indeed I was the manliest of all her exes. Evidently, this felt great to my ago, I felt like I finally found a very loving person who truly understood and "saw" me. I had been betrayed in my previous relationship by my soon to be ex-wife and a friend of ours (they had started an affair), and with her I felt a bit like I had finally "arrived". She was so warm and admiring, which felt so good, and we laughed a lot.

I was first made aware of any mental problems about 2 months into the relationship. She was still living at her parent's as she didn't have a stable job, not even properly completed her studies which had been staling for some time, and when I came to their house to pick her up on a Saturday night, she was sitting on the dinner table with a sad, empty look, not speaking a word, her mother by her. I was left without a clear explanation of what was going on, they just told me that her feeling depressed had come back now after a few years of absence. In hindsight, this may have been an understatement. She quickly felt better after seeing me, and she seemed alright again for a while. But that didn't last long. Recurring depressive episodes with me trying to console her became an integral part of our relationship. When she had one, on several occasions, the parents called me in the middle of the night to come to their daughter's help. Unfortunately, my ability to soothe her pain and make her feel better seemed to diminish over time, with the episodes getting longer and more intense.

It went on like this, so I suggested to them that she should go have herself checked, that she clearly couldn't go on like this untreated. About 5 months into the relationship she finally started to see a therapist. To sum it up, so far, I was happy about our relationship, I felt like we intensely loved each other, was only concerned about her depression but was optimistic things would go uphill now that she had begun treatment and when she would finally have a stable job. No BPD indication or abusive behaviour I was aware of so far.

Breakup no. 1
Then, about 9 months into our relationship, we had our first breakup (they were all initiated by her). To me, it was a sudden shock. I wasn't given any convincing reason, she hinted that I should have sensed that she wanted me to take her on a vacation. A few days after the breakup, she went on a 2-weeks summer trip to Mexico with a girl friend, kind of to give to herself what I had failed to provide (we had only vaguely planned for a trip before her break-up). It was all very painful to me because of the suddenness, lack of convincing explanation, and the impossibility to see her given her quick departure. Why would she go away on a vacation instead of staying and work things out with me, I asked myself.

My instincts of a loving male made me immediately pursue her, writing her a love letter and texts she replied to only very reluctantly if at all. At her return, she suggested we could meet up if I wanted, but that I should be warned that I wouldn't hear from her what I expected (that she would come back to me). The next weeks were in a limbo, and when I finally took her on a trip to Paris (we live in Germany, so it's not that far, but it was still a very nice, long trip), during that trip, we officially got back together. However, as I learned later on by spying on her phone when she wasn't around (I know I shouldn't), she had been exchanging texts with an old admirer during all that time, since the breakup and a good 3 weeks since we had reunited. From what I gathered, she met him only once during all that time, just before Paris, but probably didn't have sex with him; however their conversations had been VERY intimate, with her even mirroring his "I love you's" - he was sick of love for her, and still while she was on vacation with me, which of course she didn't mention to him. When I confronted her about it, she told me that it was a misunderstanding, that she had never really considered him at all, but that she had hoped to finally get a job through some contacts of his. She wished she had been able to let me in on this scheme but hadn't known how to approach it. Of course, the job thing had been his way to lure her. I believed that story only half, but decided to not give it any further importance. After all, she had broken it off with the other guy and focused on me. We went on another trip to south of France I also generously paid for. There, we discussed getting married 1 or 2 years from now, and then having children, which got her all excited and happy. This was another happy/idealization phase in our relationship, and she stated there was no way she would leave me again, that I was the first man she even considered getting married with, and that we should stay together forever. It was quite cheesy, but cute.

Looking back, I can tell that this break-up was when the light and funny part was over and the power game and abuses began. After coming back from our two summer vacations (the depressions had never stopped and she had had crises even while in beautiful Paris or right at the Côte d'Azur), it was made clear to me by the parents and herself, during some further crisis episodes, what she expected: her concept was that her man take care of her financially in general, and more concretely she asked me to pay for a 3-months language trip to Mexico, to travel the world and improve her Spanish - she reasoned that since we were supposed to stay together forever now, why wouldn't I want to support her development by doing so. I accepted and waited for her (also visited her during Christmas), as I so much wanted for this to succeed.

Before she left for Mexico, she broke off the therapy (which has remained inconclusive ever since), and I was also involved in writing applications and completing a take-home exam for her studies, so she could finally get her Bachelor's degree. I was the good boy, who, on top of coming to her aid during nightly crises, helped out on all fronts and fixed her life. After sending of her application package to a 100 companies, she flew off to Mexico, and it's during this absence that the next pressing demands emerged.

[Gavin09]

Breakup no. 2
Her next expectation was that we move in immediately after her return from Mexico, since, as I was told, her room at the parents' home wouldn't be available anymore as grandma needed to move in - another lie, since that never happened, the good lady couldn't even walk the stairs. She expected me to take full financial responsibility for her even if she didn't find a job, and I admit I was reluctant, first given that I was tight financially at that time since I was in the middle of developping my business, but also given her past breakup, lies, etc. I couldn't trust her completely and preferred to tread carefully, and so only participated half-heartedly in the search for a flat. In the meantime, we were all relieved as the job search revealed itself as successful: she had landed her first employment. During the ongoing flat hunt, as she was very impatient and I wasn't feeling ready yet, I suggested that she first stay a bit longer with her parents or take a flat on her own, also to see if she really liked the new job, and that we could move together a few months later. Hearing this, she picked a crisis and screamed at me on the phone to which I abruptly hung up, as I found this intolerable. This was effectively breakup number 2. Hanging up, I had intended to impose my limit and waited a good week for her to call me back and apologize, in vain - it never happened.

As usual, it was up to me re-engage her again 10 days later, writing to her that a simple fight shouldn't be the reason to seperate, given how much we loved each other and had gone through together. I was honestly shocked at how she could discard me after all I had invested in her. I thought these deeds to be enough proof to her of my sincere feelings that she wouldn't want to throw away over some flat logistics and living arrangements... .

Again, she reacted very cold, and pointed out that she was busy now with her new job, but that, if I insisted, we could meet after a week. In the meantime, as I later learned from a friend and she confirmed once confronted, she flirted with the real estate agent through whom she had found her flat, invited him over to show him how well she had settled in, and even slept with him that same night, in the flat, on the first and only date. I'm quite sure she planned for it despite saying otherwise. The next day after this fling, she finally replied to my proposition to meet up, told me that she had a new flat and suggested I see it. I gladly accepted we got back together quite quickly this time around. From my recollection, we may have been broken up for 3 weeks in total.

When I learned about her fling I was upset, to which she commented that she was sorry and "it had just happened", that she had felt weak and overwhelmed with her new job, that he had been driving force, that the sex had been no good at all and that she could have spared the whole experience to herself. Plus we were seperated, as she pointed out, so I had no right to hold that against her. Nevertheless, she claimed that she regretted it and in the end, I forgave her.

Living together / Final chapter
In the weeks that followed, I quickly forgot about the incident, our love blossomed and I finally moved into her flat. This was 6 months ago, 1.5. years into our relationship. I rationalized that living together was a good way to really know if we were meant to last, since this is when you really get to know someone, and plus since the flat was under her name, I could easily move out at any time. I was also optimistic about her development, since, with the new job (which I indirectly had helped her get), things were finally advancing in her life.

The first 3 months were great, we went out a lot being in this new and very nice neighbourhood. It felt as, now that she had what she had nagged me about all along (me sharing bed and table with her), we had "arrived" and it felt secure; I felt secure.

I'm an independent business consultant, and I work a lot from home, at my desk, when I'm not with clients, writing reports etc. Of course, still it was still a young business, I was dedicating a lot of time to it.

She quickly started to complain about my working arrangements, especially me working from home, working so much (sometimes even on weekends). She expected me to be available to her, i.e. give her my undivided attention, during her free time, sync my work times to hers.

On her side, she couldn't bear having entered the workforce. She must have thought about quitting her job a hundred times, and called in sick for at cumulative 2 weeks during her 6-months probation period. Of course, she blamed ME to have her work so hard, when I should be the one providing for her. She was doing ME a favor and contributing to this relationship by putting up with working like a man. Me and the parents did our best to console her help her through this period of adjustment. I also spent a lot of time when she brought work home, helping her.

Regarding day-to-day life, she was hardly taking care of the household (and on top of that very untidy). It was me who was taking care of the majority of errands and household tasks, as she argued she couldn't be bothered to participate in any of these when stressed from work.

Despite all our problems, she pressed for us to get married soon, next year in any case. I was still in my divorce proceedings (from my soon ex wife I had separated from before meeting her), so of course that bought me some time, and I indeed wanted to see how things develop before taking them to the next step. I loved her but was quite worried about our living situation. I often felt like she was out of her senses (see Part 1 above for some further things that didn't feel right).

The last 2 months have been especially rocky, and this in spite of her passing her probation period. I could sense that she was questioning us, despite me trying to keep her even more happy, buying her flowers, little gifts, and inviting her to fancy restaurants she wanted to explore. She was very needy and asked for my reassurance that I loved her and wouldn't leave her time and time again. After getting back together, she had also very often repeated that she would not break up with me anymore, and that I would need to do it if I wanted out.

She abruptly ended it all last week after having had a disappointment at her job (one of her deals had not come through and she was feeling growing pressure to perform before her boss) and critizising me of not being emotionally supportive enough then and in general. Nothing between us had effectively happened.

As reasons for this rupture, she stated 1) that my divorce was going so slowly and that she couldn't see our prior dream of getting married (we had expressed it after the first reunion, when we were in south of France) materializing, and 2) that we had been fighting so much these last months and were not right for each other.

Immediately after the break-up she moved to her parents' home for the time until I move out of her flat. Two days later, in a desperate attempt to repair what may have been a stupid overreaction, I sent her a romantic text with a cute picture of us hoping to rekindle her, to which she coldly responded that I should please not send her any such messages again, that this third breakup was final and she wasn't returning, and that she needed distance and didn't want to see me as this was emotionally too stressful for her. Of course I am shocked, given how I have spoiled her recently, the travel plans we've made, and the mutual reassurances of our love we have given each other.

Once again, it all doesn't make much sense to me, logically. I helped her through critical phases in her life, had moved in with her as she had always expected, but this all was still not enough for her.

[AlteredReality]

Hello Gavin,

I'm very sorry you're having to deal with this.  It isn't easy to wrap your head around, but once you start to look at the situation for what it is and focus on yourself, you'll be on your way to recovery .  I think a lot of times when we look for an explanation, such as "does my ex have... .", we get lost in searching for the reason instead of focusing on the healing.  It really doesn't matter in the long run if it's BPD, Bipolar, Sociopathy, etc.  Those are just labels that help us to understand there is/was a problem with the relationship.  She could be any, a combination of several, or none of the above and just immature or depressed.  Unfortunately we can't control the actions or thoughts of our significant other, and trying to do so only extends the grieving period.  Focus on what you can do for your own mental health and healing and try not to dwell on what might have been.

I can absolutely relate to your situation though.  It is very similar to my own.  I'm about 3 & 1/2 months out and still have some bad days, but more good than bad lately.   Feel free to check out my story, it may give you some insight into how similar our scenarios happen to be.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327977.msg12990361#msg12990361

You'll get through it.  If I can make it this far and see improvement, then I KNOW it's possible for anyone else to find the light at the end of the tunnel.

All the best,

AR

[Mindfried]

It is not my place to diagnosis your ex but I went througha relationship with constatnt break-ups, valuing and devaluing, I invested alot of time, money, blood, sweat and tears into the relationship and nothing was ever good enough. The relationship lasted on and off for over 4 years. It has been very, very painful, but I will say in the end you are better off. It will take time to get over this I am not going to lie and I miss my ex everyday. It's been 4 months but I know we could never be happy because nothing and I mean nothing was ever good enough. Stay strong, stay out. You will have many days of weakness. Good luck.

[Mutt]

Hi Gavin09,

t I went througha relationship with constatnt break-ups, valuing and devaluing, I invested alot of time, money, blood, sweat and tears into the relationship and nothing was ever good enough

I was going to say this youll read a lot of posts with a similar situation, r/s were not reciprocal you can give  the shirt off of your back and it’s not enough it will never be enough until a pwBPD work on themselves you’ll hear emotional blackhole

I also want to touch on what Alteredreality said about labels a lot of members her have an ex that is subclinical, what we look at are traits of the disorder you have emotional immaturity, dependency, blame shifting, that is common with BPD i didn’t read projection, dissociation, intense anger.

Gavin09 are you done with the r/s? Ah says that she’s done but she might be impulsive right now, maybe she wants space or maybe she’s in another r/s. I know that’s hard to hear and I’m sorru for the circumstances that led you here my point is usually there are many r/s recycles when you’re in a r/s with a pwBPD not always but many here have broken up made up countless times.

She initiated this what if she wants to get back together,? How do you feel about that?

[Gavin09]

I also want to touch on what Alteredreality said about labels a lot of members her have an ex that is subclinical, what we look at are traits of the disorder you have emotional immaturity, dependency, blame shifting, that is common with BPD i didn’t read projection, dissociation, intense anger.

Thanks for guiding me. With respect to traits you couldn't find in my description:

- Intense anger: she had this absolutely; e.g., she could become very angry while arguing about a minor thing. E.g., I once asked her to not smoke in the flat, and she looked at me with a satan's face. Anger was an ongoing theme.
- Projection: Did she project her own flaws on me? I am not sure about this point. Does the following count? She was constantly preoccupied with the possibility of me leaving her, loving her less, getting stolen by another woman, being interested in other women. Yet at the same time, it was HER sabotaging the relationship through the constant fights she initiated about things I failed to deliver to her (quick enough) while I just wanted us to stay together and be harmonious, AND it was HER doing untrustful things like maintaining contact with her ex while not mentioning to him that she was with me. During very intense fights, it was also her framing me as a bad, dangerous, unpredictible person while she was yelling and physically attacking at me and I may just have defended myself or hold her hands to avoid injuries.
- Dissociation: I am unsure about this one. Did she function on auto-pilot or day-dream while under extreme stress like abandonment? I did not witness how she was during our 3 breakups, so I can't tell.


To your question about whether I'm done with the relationship:

Rationally, I can see it's not a good person to be with, at least as long as she does not seek diagnosis/treatment. My mind understands she has not been good for me and has actually used me (consciously or not).

I realize that, in the spirit of what you guys have said, it does not matter exactly what disorders she has. The reasons for her behaviors are indeed secondary, the outcome is what should count for me, and how she treated ME and made ME feel in this relationship, which was obviously bad. I must have been weak myself, coming from a broken marriage, to put up with all that for so long.

As to her breaking up, I don't know if she's done, but she said so. I know that she definitely is not in a new relationship. The breakup may have been an impulsive decision, and I could imagine her re-engaging me later on, perhaps if she fails to build a successful new relationship. But with me moving out she's effectively burning a bridge. I would need to have really low self worth and be masochistic to come back after having been rejected like that, given all I had previously done for her. You don't marry someone who's broken up with you three times, what else can you expect than certain divorce... .

Emotionally, still this is a very fresh wound, I may see myself becoming weak and take her back if she changed her mind these next days, but I doubt she'll indeed return so quickly. She may also (sub-consciously?) wait for me to pursue her and offer to make concessions (expedited marriage). After the last two breakups, it was always ME re-engaging her, writing love letters and making promises. Perhaps she speculates on me following this trend, I don't know.

But rationally, since I see her as sub-par to me, especially with respect to her character (doesn't matter if it's because of a disorder or she's just manipulative, lieing and self-entitled), I prefer that if and when she re-contacts me I am strong enough emotionally to resist her.

[Mutt]

Does the following count? She was constantly preoccupied with the possibility of me leaving her, loving her less, getting stolen by another woman, being interested in other women. Yet at the same time, it was HER sabotaging the relationship through the constant fights she initiated about things I failed to deliver to her (quick enough) while I just wanted us to stay together and be harmonious, AND it was HER doing untrustful things like maintaining contact with her ex while not mentioning to him that she was with me

A core criteron for the disorder is fear of abandonment a pwBPD will frantically try to avoid abandonment even if it's not real. The behaviours like abandoning the other person before a pwBPD is abandoned is avoiding abandonment but it does the opposite it is destructive behaviour in a r/s. That being said maintaining contact with an ex is an exit strategy she believes that everyone in her life will abandon her so she maintains another r/s and someone to fall back on in case that the primary r/s is in trouble again she is trying to avoid being abandoned.

After the last two breakups, it was always ME re-engaging her, writing love letters and making promises. Perhaps she speculates on me following this trend, I don't know.

A pwBPD don't have good r/s skills she doesn't know how to repair the r/s.

But rationally, since I see her as sub-par to me, especially with respect to her character (doesn't matter if it's because of a disorder or she's just manipulative, lieing and self-entitled),.

If you want my advice I think that I hear conflict it probably feels like you're on an emotional roller coaster a part of you wants her and the other part knows that it's not good for you, if you want my advice look at your values, she was maintaining contact with an ex while you were together and you have three break-ups and you don't know if this is stable enough for marriage, does this r/s match my values and what I want from a r/s?

[Gavin09]

A pwBPD don't have good r/s skills she doesn't know how to repair the r/s.

Well if she wants to re-engage me, she just has to write me a text, like she does with her ex (who btw always nicely replies, but never initiates contact).
Beyond that, to me, a good r/s repair would entail her owning up to her mistakes (same for me) and accepting to have herself checked and start a therapy.

If you want my advice I think that I hear conflict it probably feels like you're on an emotional roller coaster a part of you wants her and the other part knows that it's not good for you, if you want my advice look at your values, she was maintaining contact with an ex while you were together and you have three break-ups and you don't know if this is stable enough for marriage, does this r/s match my values and what I want from a r/s?

Yes, that's exactly my conflict. And no, what she did, no matter if she is disordered or not, does not correspond with my values in a long-term relationship. At the very list I would expect a big apology plus her acknowledging there is a problem and going to see a mental health professional. As I don't expect this to happen, I need to detach and let go but it's not easy.

[Gavin09]

I'd like to speak more broadly about my core values in a relationship:
To me, love is giving to the other and supporting each other in any way, sticking together through hard, less fun times. To her, "I love you" really just means "I need you", and so staying associated with me came down to what I brought to the table, now. Actually, I did a lot, vastly improved her life - when I met her, she was a 24 y.o. depressed woman without a job or money, with student debt and an incomplete degree, living at her parents', and now she has a permanent secure job I helped her get and keep. But it was still not enough for her, as she expected more fun, more being taken out to fancy restaurants, her partner spending all his time on her and ultimately making sure she wouldn't need to work.
I know I have had to work a lot lately to focus on my business, and I didn't expect her to repay me in any way for what I had fixed in her life, but just to be emotionally supportive, grateful, comprehending, loyal. As has been said so often about BPDs, she didn't have any empathy for me, my situation, my goals. It's only hers that counted. She only accepted my activities insofar as they revolved around the fulfillment of her immediate needs. There was no understanding that I was working so hard to be able to offer us a better life with more money and free time later on.
Her "love" only came from a place of need. Since to her I wasn't doing enough, I was to be replaced. Her "love" wasn't about me specifically or she would have sticked together at any cost. This is not love in my book - and with that she failed me.

Therefore, I only expect her to re-approach me if she's really in a bad place with troubles in her job and private life, failing to building a new sustained relationship with someone catering to all her demands.

[once removed]

hi Gavin09, i want to join the others and say

i also wanted to add, that if theres even a 5% chance of going back, that you explore and perhaps post on the Bettering board, learn the tools there. recycling the relationship is, by far, more the norm than the exception, and if you do, youre going to want a very different game plan, and support and feedback.

youre going to need the latter either way, so i hope youll stick around and make yourself at home as part of the family here, we will support you in whatever direction your circumstances take.

how are you taking the recent breakup? how long has it been since?

[Gavin09]

Thank you for your warm welcome, once removed.

And thanks for the tip, if I see signs that both of us consider getting back together, I'll surely look around the Bettering forum.

She broke up 9 days ago, our 3rd breakup. Since then I've spent a lot of time reading about the topic of BPD, trying to get my head around what happened, why it happened, especially after all the committment to our relationship she conveyed with her words not long before. I also wrote down all my thoughts, good or bad, being critical with her and myself, and this has helped me. But the ruminating is still there.

I am at the point where I rationalize that it's best for me to end things here, as I feel she used and abused me in several ways. Of course, as Mutt points out, I am conflicted on an emotional level. Would I have the force to shut her out if she re-engaged me in the near future? Maybe not.

At least, since she was very firm in her expression of the breakup ("this third breakup is final, I'm not coming back, I don't want to see you any more as it's too emotionally disturbing for me at the moment"), I have made a vow to myself to not be the one to re-contact her. I have begged and made amends the last two times, I can't be the one repairing the relationship this time around. I couldn't look myself in the mirror.

recycling the relationship is, by far, more the norm than the exception

Thanks for pointing this out, but I really doubt she'll take that initiative given how she departed

[once removed]

She broke up 9 days ago, our 3rd breakup.

so things are pretty raw then. often times when there have been a few makeup/breakup cycles, it can leave things feeling in limbo to some extent, even if both parties have resolved to walk away.

Since then I've spent a lot of time reading about the topic of BPD

i saw your question about whether or not she has BPD, and while it does help to focus on the traits/behaviors we experienced, some of these have a distinct BPD "flavor", where explanations can help in detaching, and it can also help separate what was BPD, what were relatively common (if hellish) relationship problems vs BPD pathology, what was our stuff, etc. i know it helped me tremendously to have a starting point, and explanations for the questions i was struggling the hardest with.

I also wrote down all my thoughts, good or bad, being critical with her and myself, and this has helped me. But the ruminating is still there.

i found writing to be super helpful in dealing with ruminations. it was one thing to repeat a focal point in my mind, there was a much more powerful effect in putting it in writing that "clicked".

on one hand, i think ruminations have a purpose, in that its kind of like watching a movie like the sixth sense, where you totally didnt see the end coming, you try to play elements back in your head as to clues, you rewatch the movie, maybe you rewatch the movie several times trying to figure out, picking up a little more each time. though the ruminating subsided in a sort of symptomatic sense, my narrative of what happened evolved over a few years. so in detaching from the wounds, theres certainly value to exploring all the different aspects.

on the other, rumination can be downright debilitating. this is a little lengthy, but we have an article that explains more, and discusses tools for managing/limiting ruminations here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=103393.0;topicseen

As reasons for this rupture, she stated 1) that my divorce was going so slowly and that she couldn't see our prior dream of getting married (we had expressed it after the first reunion, when we were in south of France) materializing, and 2) that we had been fighting so much these last months and were not right for each other.

did she say anything else? what are your thoughts?

[Gavin09]

did she say anything else? what are your thoughts?

No. I think she began devaluing me about 2 months ago due to our many arguments over little things. During that time she complained about me to her parents and friends. I see that breakup as the tipping point, at which it had been too much for her.

Today, she has written me a warm message concerning logistics (money she owes me for the furniture I bought, things she needs to give me back). From her warmish tone it at least seems she wants to remain on good terms. Her reaching out to me in this tone somehow gets my hopes up a little. A place in my heart wishes this would be the start of us getting closer again, but I know it probably wouldn't happen plus it wouldn't be good for me.

[Gavin09]

It's probably a false hope but I wished her not writing angrily anymore could indicate the end of her devaluation and perhaps, now that she misses me, the start of a new cycle with re-idealization. But on the other hand, since she's discussing logistics, she's confirming our mutual understanding that I'm moving out.

[once removed]

whatd she say? what do you want to say?

you might try the BIFF (brief, informative, friendly, firm) technique.

[Gavin09]

rumination can be downright debilitating. this is a little lengthy, but we have an article that explains more, and discusses tools for managing/limiting ruminations here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=103393.0;topicseen

What a piece! This article is gold and the content goes far beyond just handling trauma from breakup. It explains so well how emotions are associated with memories, and how we can regulate our mood by thinking about the right memories/files (even imaginary), but also by altering the files.

For example, if having thoughts about the breakup event, I could alter and water down my bad file of it by noticing how ridicule the whole situation was. The article suggest adding a spin to bad files, based in reality or imagination - it doesn't matter. What matters is that if the thought about the breakup comes up I feel less dragged down because of the fewer negative assocations in my brain.

Many such thoughts come up automatically, i.e., the brain pulls out files on autopilot, for example because I see a picture of her on my smartphone. So my takeaway is with respect to my heartbreak is that I should "water down the bad files" but also try to avoid my brain pulling them up in the first place, for example by deleting/archiving pics I have of her and in general thinking less about her.

For me, the article also relates to our pwBPDs: in devaluation and smear campaings, these people create a "bad file" in their memory of you.

whatd she say? what do you want to say?
you might try the BIFF (brief, informative, friendly, firm) technique.

Well, I have new information and it seems I am still clearly devalued. I learned from a common friend that she's upset about the money she owes me. I conclude that it's much to early to expect her to make any move in my direction, especially as long as these financial affairs are not settled, which obviously pull a bad file with her.

What I wonder, do the files/memories a pwBPD (who cut us out of their life) pulls when they think about us become less negative over time? In other terms, in their memories about us, what prevails in the long run, the bad that led to their discard, or the good from the happy times shared?

[once removed]

i think its usually a good idea to get all the relationship out of sight and out of mind. i boxed all of it myself. grieving people dont need a lot of reminders around.

What I wonder, do the files/memories a pwBPD (who cut us out of their life) pulls when they think about us become less negative over time? In other terms, in their memories about us, what prevails in the long run, the bad that led to their discard, or the good from the happy times shared?

i think that people with BPD traits are the same as us in this regard... .the differences being the two people, and the circumstances around the breakup, and the fact that people with BPD traits tend to feel emotions more strongly than average. there are amicable breakups. there are also huge, irreparable blow outs, and theres everything in between.

another thing that was both a shock to my system, but also helped me in breaking things down, was that when a couple (any couple) breaks up, the two are usually on a different page. the person doing the breaking up has usually grieved the relationship to some extent - not necessarily completely, and sometimes a breakup is an impulsive move to get ones way - but to some extent.

i dont think this person hates your guts, so to speak. it does sound like theres a level of resentment, and it sounds like shes definitely sore about the breakup. she moved from wanting total distance to wanting to discuss logistics in a friendly way (which is a change), but is also sore about those logistics.

no matter how bad a breakup, ice usually thaws, to some extent, for both parties.

whats the plan with the money? how much does she owe?

[Gavin09]

whats the plan with the money? how much does she owe?

She wired it, so this matter is settled.

I know she's not well mentally and has called in sick at work for the whole week.

Today I have to stop by the parents' house to get some last stuff. She might be there as well but I don't expect her to talk to me.

[once removed]

let us know how it goes.

[Gavin09]

I went to the parents’ house and got my stuff. The parents were quite surprised to see me. They were certainly not rude but didn’t want to comment on what happened. They shared that she’s not well and in her room though. She’s been depressed for a couple of days and taken sick days.
The mother seemed to want to keep the communication channels open between me and them just in case.

[once removed]

how ya feeling?

how do you feel about keeping communication with her mom?

[Gavin09]

I felt good because I thought it was a good gesture to also say my goodbyes to the parents who had been so involved in our relationship all along.

However, I learned that she didn't take my initiative well at all, portraying me as a stalker trying to get in touch with her. Of course this hurts. She's badmouthing me to her friends like I'm a creepy person. They suggested she changes the locks. Of course I have not kept any key.

This seems like a textbook smear campaign / devaluation. I will take the harshness and burned bridges as a permanent discard and resolve to walk away for good.

[once removed]

Of course this hurts.

it does. i had an ex do that to me once. i wanted to defend myself, i thought to myself "she knows me better than that. or does she? does she really believe that? is it true?". and at the end of the day, its just jarring that someone you have been close to would say such things.

This seems like a textbook smear campaign / devaluation. I will take the harshness and burned bridges as a permanent discard and resolve to walk away for good.

it could be a number of things, Gavin. it could be defensiveness, or a way of venting resentments. it could be a very dysfunctional way of attracting support because shes not handling things well. it could be a preemptive strike because she may assume you will do the same thing, or that you already are.

it is certainly a good idea to treat it seriously, and to be on your guard in any future interactions with her. you may see very different treatment from her when/if you speak.

[Gavin09]

Thank you for your thoughtful words.

In fact, just this Saturday night around 9, she briefly reached out to me via text to thank me for how I left the flat clean and tidy, to tell me I could get some last things she has from me at her parents', and that she hoped that I'm doing well. She also thanked me for a bag of sweets I had left for her (a last gesture of good will of mine towards her to take off the edge of some of the arguments we'd had recently).

I was quite surprised to hear again from her after the harsh words about me to friends, but I have decided not to answer and ignore the message.

[once removed]

I could get some last things she has from me at her parents'

do you plan to do that?

I was quite surprised to hear again from her after the harsh words about me to friends, but I have decided not to answer and ignore the message.

what led you to that decision?

[Gavin09]

do you plan to do that?

Yes I will, just to get my stuff. I don't plan to talk to the parents about the matter.

what led you to that decision?

She portrayed me as a needy, half-crazy, obsessed, stalking ex with distorted perception to her friends. She probably imagines that she still has power over me. She thinks I want her so much and doesn't want any of it at all.
By not responding, I'm conveying indifference and that I have moved on. I'm trying to regain a strong position.

I know that if she is really interested, she will make even more of an effort. But that's probably not the case at this time as she's just starting to enjoy her new found freedom.

She may also have been fishing for information (where I've moved to, how I'm doing, if I'm still desperate for her attention) to confirm she took the right decision. It's a bit of a power game. It was Saturday night and she was probably alone at home, she may have felt lonely and wanted to see if I reply or am perhaps out on a date with another girl.

Another reason is that I'm really trying to move on, and why would I hold up a conversation then.

[once removed]

i dont want to belabor the point, however i think theres a subtle, but important distinction here:

She probably imagines that she still has power over me.
... .
I'm trying to regain a strong position.
... .
I know that if she is really interested, she will make even more of an effort.

when a relationship ends, so does the power struggle. power struggles at this stage are often more about the Bargaining stage of grief, and its important to be mindful of these stages as we move through them.

its hard to say whats in her head; very hard when we are part of the equation. if youre ignoring her to provoke a response, things could get messy quickly, and there might be a better way.

Another reason is that I'm really trying to move on, and why would I hold up a conversation then.

this is a fair enough reason not to respond, and her note did not really require a response. at the same time, a few polite words (ie "i am doing well, hope you are too") dont necessarily open the door to conversation or yield any power.

looking a little further down the road, there will come a point where you are both detached from the wounds, the ice will have thawed, there will likely be some fond memories. the steps that we take or dont take now can inform our recoveries later down the road for better or worse. that doesnt apply only here. there may be more interactions between the two of you in the future.

[Gavin09]

Bargaining stage of grief

What do you mean in my specific situation?

if youre ignoring her to provoke a response, things could get messy quickly

How so?

at the same time, a few polite words (ie "i am doing well, hope you are too") dont necessarily open the door to conversation or yield any power.

I think I might just do that after all. A brief acknowledging response might better convey indifference and "I'm over this relationship" than a provoking ignorance that might be taken as ongoing anger and a manipulation attempt.

[once removed]

What do you mean in my specific situation?

your feelings sound conflicted. a big part of you wants to walk away. a part of you would like to get back with her under different/better circumstances. more recently, a part of you is hurt by the stuff she said; its a blow, and youre understandably uncomfortable being portrayed that way.

it all makes for a lot of powerful feelings. in detaching, or navigating our circumstances in general, its important to be in touch with, but also not ruled by our feelings. to stay centered. a tall order, by the way.

How so?

with all of that in mind, the two of you may interact in the future.

i suggested a few things that may have been going on in her mind when she said that stuff. there are other possibilities. she may have been speaking out of hurt; exchanging belongings can feel very final, and someone with heightened fears of abandonment may not cope with that in the most mature way. telling herself, or others, that youre stalking her, or obsessed with her, may be reassuring/soothing to her, while its hurtful to you. thats one possibility. another is that she may have known it would get back to you, and she wondered how you might react, if at all.

there are a lot of different possibilities, but you are both managing feelings and fall out over all of this. she may feel conflicted as well. if the two of you are trying to send (conflicted) messages to each other, thats where things can get messy, and boundaries can be blurred.

if you want to detach, and close the door, there are a few paths for that.

if you want to rekindle the relationship, there are a few paths for that.

and if youre not sure, there are a few paths to navigating that as well.

but mixing approaches (trying to send the message that youre done/indifferent vs hoping she may show more interest) may mean more hurt and confusion.

I think I might just do that after all. A brief acknowledging response might better convey indifference and "I'm over this relationship" than a provoking ignorance that might be taken as ongoing anger and a manipulation attempt.

this is not why i mentioned the option. indifference and "over this relationship" are states of being, ones im not sure apply here, and messages you may not want to send in hurt. a brief acknowledging response, however, is just a brief acknowledging response.

[Gavin09]

I just answered briefly: "All good, thanks, I'll get in touch with your parents to pick up my belongings" and hope I found a good middle ground, not ignoring her on purpose but also not sounding too warm and needy (she had taken the few loving messages since the breakup very badly)