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Author Topic: Cutting people off -- is this BPD behavior?  (Read 443 times)
Ozzie101
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« on: November 08, 2018, 08:11:44 AM »

I posted yesterday about my husband, who I strongly suspect is a non-diagnosed pwBPD. There was a new development last night and it looks to me like part of a recent pattern.

A little background: My husband was adopted as a newborn. He never really clicked with his adoptive parents, who were pretty controlling and his mother is VERY passive-aggressive and critical. He was always very negative about his birth parents, certain they'd just made a mistake and thrown him away, never thinking about him again.

My husband has a tendency to react very strongly when someone else upsets him, disappoints him, fails to respond how or when he thinks is appropriate. He'll rail against the person (to me) and declare he's cutting them off. Examples:
He REALLY dislikes two of my siblings. Thinks they're totally self-centered and bad people. They are rather wrapped up in their own lives, but I know they're not horrible people. I don't argue with him about that, though. But after a post he thought was insensitive (and I don't disagree with his assessment of that, really), he blocked them on Facebook and said he never wanted to see them again. He's backed up on the last one but still says he "hates" them. This hurts because, while I'm not very close to either, I still love them and I'm crazy about their kids. My husband (an only child) admits he doesn't understand my attachment to them or their kids.

He has a good friend of almost 25 years who lives in a remote area of another state. He sent a message out to her and a couple of other friends telling them some pretty big news. She didn't respond, which wasn't really like her. She finally did, claiming she'd been swamped. I agree with him that she could have at least sent a "Hey, great to hear! Sorry I can't say more now" kind of message. He was very hurt by her non-response. Yet, his reaction to someone who's never done that before was not "I wonder what's wrong" it was "That's it. I'm done with her. I'm not answering any texts and I'm blocking her on Facebook." She did reach out and I think he responded and things are back on track now. It just seemed extreme to me to completely cut ties with such a long-time friend over one missed text without even getting an explanation.

He'll do that with other people do. My parents can't come up when we invite them for dinner? We're never inviting them again. I upset him in some way? That's it. "I want a divorce." Then he almost immediately backtracks. The one time I grabbed my suitcase, I swear I saw panic.

Now for the biggie. We found his birth parents a couple of months ago. They actually got married a couple of years after his birth and had more children. He found out that he was NOT thrown away and unwanted. Their situation was such that, at the time, they made the best decision they could. They've loved him and wondered about him for years. We met them last month and it was a wonderful experience for everyone. They've welcomed him with open arms. Well, his parents and sister have. His brother still hasn't met us, hasn't made contact and is really dragging his feet about it. My husband is concerned this is a big problem even though his parents assure him that the brother will come around. This is his usual way of dealing with things. My husband told me last night though that he thinks they're all lying to him. That they don't really care as much as they say. Thing is, I've met them and spent some time with them observing. I believe they are completely genuine. They are very nice, normal, caring people who have embraced him and brought him into the family (minus brother) right away. It was an incredible thing, seeing the connection he immediately felt with them and they with him.

Thing is, he can't understand why the brother has a difficult time with it. The parents didn't tell their children my husband existed until after my husband contacted them. So, it was a pretty big surprise. Several people have said that that's pretty big news and some people may feel a lot of emotions and need time to process it but he insists that's silly and they should just get on board. That's how he would feel.

After he first sent the letter contacting them, it took several days to hear back. He started getting very angry and depressed. They're never going to write. This was a bad idea. They don't care about me. They're awful people. I assured him that they would respond. They might not have gotten the letter yet (mailed right before a holiday weekend). They might not have told their kids. They might need a little time to process things. Again, he blew that off.

And everything I said ended up being right.

Now he's talking about just stopping everything. I know (and he'll admit) he's afraid the brother will cause a problem, the parents will have to choose and they'll choose the brother. He's afraid of getting hurt. At the same time, I feel like he may be throwing away something that could be very good for him and his life. That's not my choice to make. But it's part of a pattern. There's the slightest threat that someone might hurt or disappoint him and he goes into "Nope! They're out!" mode. I can't help but feel this his way of reacting to fear of abandonment. Any sign that someone might hurt him or be pulling back and he has to get the jump on it and move first so HE'S the abandoner and not the other way around.

I hate to see it because I feel like he's throwing away potential relationships and opportunities. Yes, relationships are messy. People will disappoint you. Yet to lash out and shove people away, you miss out on so much good. At the same time, I want to respect his feelings and I do understand his worries.

I just wondered if that's a BPD trait? Or something probably more tied to the adoption and his lack of connection with the people who raised him?
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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2018, 09:42:09 AM »

Here is my layman's perspective as an adopted person.  I was adopted as an infant and actually have always looked at it from the perspective of how damn much my parents wanted me.  It was a 3 year process for them before I arrived.  Further being in the 1960's my mom had to quit her job in order to tell the adoption agency there was a stable home with a full time mother.  (Her job paid more than my dad's job at the time)

As a funny anecdote I was in high school and a girl came in puffy faced and crying because her parents told her she was an accident.  I said 'We were born in 1965 --we were all accidents... .  Hey... .Jeff were you an accident?' Jeff put down his coffee and said 'Yep'.  The girl felt better and we all had a laugh about being hippie babies.

My brother, also adopted, had a very troubled childhood but I think this was due to a bad genetic roll of the dice and perhaps a heroine addicted birth mother... .  My parents gave him the same love and attention they gave me, but he was a train wreck.

I looked at being adopted as an ultimate form of acceptance -but that is my perception.

Personally, I have decided to not contact my biological mother, because I did not want to risk causing her strife with her current family.  Besides, I was so happy with my parents I was content and felt quite lucky.

My wife found out about an unknown sister after her mother's death.  My wife wants to meet the 'new' sister, but her other siblings have had a very negative reaction. 

'... .By the way you have a brother we never told you about' is big news, some people will be able to accept this and others won't.  There is the 'out of wedlock' conundrum if they are religious -there are so many factors which could make this a loaded issue.

Hopefully the brother comes around.  I can understand why this is hard on your husband.

From what I have read about BPD the fear of abandonment or the possibility of abandonment (just as bad) can cause severe pain for them.  It was ultimately a fear of abandonment which caused my relationship with my BPD person to collapse.

Pain and fear can leads to diffuse physiological arousal (fight, flight, freeze) in all humans -the difference, from my personal observation, with someone suffering from BPD can be the cause of the fear and the intensity of the reaction.  For us relatively healthy neurotics raging, cutting, or falling into dysphoria is unlikely.

I saw my undiagnosed ex cut off two very close friends in the same week.  She also had me help her change the color of her hair (blue green) in this same period.  She was obviously hurting badly and I am not sure these two friends she 'ghosted' were the cause.  She simply stopped responding to them in the middle of a conversation.  No warning -just radio silence.

I supported her the best I could, but never got a good answer as to why she was in pain.  Her friends were sending me messages begging me to have her contact them -my ex said 'We will never speak of them again'. 

My ex was in so much pain she needed to change her appearance and remove her two closest friends from her life.  I had been on the receiving end of a ghosting -so I could empathize with her friends pain and confusion.


Wicker Man
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Ozzie101
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« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2018, 09:57:16 AM »

Thank you for your perspective. It sounds like you have/had a very healthy attitude. I don't think adoption is the root of my husband's problem but I can't help but feel that his troubled relationship with his adoptive parents plays a role.

The ghosting really gets to me because I feel like it's unfair to the other people involved who, really, have no idea there's even anything wrong. I know how hurtful that can be and it's painful to watch him do that to other people. Yet I try to be supportive. I'm trying to validate his feelings, which I do understand, while still trying to encourage him to find a healthier way to address any problems.

He has the same sort of attitude to my family: they should apologize. They should reach out. Yet, if they don't know there's a problem (he doesn't really want me to tell them stuff), how are they supposed to apologize or reach out? He brought my family up again today. "I don't matter to them. I'm always the only one who ends up getting hurt in relationships. For everyone else, it's business as usual." Not true but I didn't say that. I know my parents and certain other members are hurt by us not showing up for holidays and by knowing there's tension and unhappiness. And I've definitely been hurt. But, again, I don't say anything because that wouldn't help.

The thing is, I can see that he's in a lot of pain. Yet I feel powerless to help. And the paths he's choosing are ones that, I fear, will cause even more pain.
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2018, 12:36:40 AM »

When we see our pwBPD engaging in unhealthy behaviors it is hard to watch.  It's easy to feel frustration that they're not behaving in a healthier way, and to feel pain on behalf of the others they are hurting.  This can lead to violating their boundaries and inflaming conflict, but it sounds like you're aware of this and are being careful.  Is this a caution you've always had, or did you develop it over time as you gained experience with him?  Are there times when you think you may still be having trouble letting go of the urge to change his behavior?  (That last one is kind of a trick question, I think most of us have trouble with this ;)

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Ozzie101
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2018, 07:45:01 AM »

It's something that's developed over time -- mainly in the last three months. And I definitely struggle with the urge to get him to change.

Last night, he was talking (pretty calmly) about just backing out of the relationship with his biological family -- writing them a letter to explain what he was doing and why. Asked if I'd help him write it. I was against the idea, but told him if he felt that was the best thing for him, then, yes, I'd help him write it. Later, when he's in the middle of a blow-up, he rails at me for telling him to cut things off with them and offering to help write the letter. I pointed out that I'd told him several times before that I didn't think this was the best thing to do (I know, defensiveness is not the best response when he's in a fit -- I'm working on it). He denied I'd said any of that. When I told them I was trying to support him and that I feared he'd accuse me of siding with them if I told him what I really thought, he actually backed off on it.

The thing is, once again, the whole thing got turned around to my family. It wasn't as bad as some other times. He even admitted several times that he doesn't hate them. But we did get into the whole "You don't take my side" thing. And how I don't "stand up" for him or make excuses for him like I do for them. Or how the "he's divorced" thing shouldn't be a big deal. No amount of explaining or evidence can convince him that none of that's true. He started doing his usual lashing out -- accusing me of causing his stress levels to skyrocket and not helping him, etc. He got insulting, calling me a moron, a loser. He threw his glasses across the room. I just nodded, went upstairs and started getting clothes together. Again, that may not have been the right response but I'd had enough. Anyway, it scared the hell out of him. But he thought I was leaving because he criticized my family. I explained that, no, it was because of how he was treating me. Not sure he got it. Regardless, the night ended fine and we even ended up going to bed on the early side.

He's not cutting off his family, for which I'm relieved. But at the same time, I know in a couple of days, this will all happen again.
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2018, 04:57:32 PM »

I can't help but feel this his way of reacting to fear of abandonment. Any sign that someone might hurt him or be pulling back and he has to get the jump on it and move first so HE'S the abandoner and not the other way around.

i think youre probably dead on here. the fear of abandonment is a lot like the fear of flying, or really any other fear, and its one that we all have on some level, but for people with above average fears, they can rule our lives, they can be debilitating, and we will do anything, build our entire lives around experiencing our fears come true. its very hard to see, past the fear, that we may have a role in this, the extent to which it controls us, that we are being irrational or self sabotaging, that there are better ways.

not to mention that people with traits of this disorder struggle mightily to regulate their emotions, and are notoriously impulsive, so this can make for a lot of irrationality and self sabotage at once.

we did get into the whole "You don't take my side" thing. And how I don't "stand up" for him or make excuses for him like I do for them.

this is a tough position to be in. theres a fine line between a person feeling that we are "on their side", in terms of supporting them first and foremost, without "taking sides" in a way that either invalidates our partners, validates the invalid ("youre right to feel that way, everybody is terrible"), or that otherwise polarizes/inflames the conflict.

the power of asking validating questions can really help, big time, in defusing conflict, and in communicating to a person that we do support them and want to help, without necessarily doing the work for them: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

any update?
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Ozzie101
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« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2018, 08:18:49 AM »

This weekend was actually much better. He talked to his family about a couple of things and came out of it with a much more positive attitude. He's also been more like his old self with me.

I've enjoyed that a LOT. Yet, I can't quite relax about it, fearing that he's still going to suddenly take a turn or that I'm going to do or say something to set him off again.

It is a very tough position. It's VERY hard for me to hear someone say something that isn't true and agree with it -- especially when I feel like it's unfair to someone. I'm trying to find ways to validate without agreeing. Problem is, he picks up on my careful wording and it's one of the things he criticizes me for. Most of the time I just have to ride out the storm and nod or something.
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« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2018, 02:13:36 PM »

I've enjoyed that a LOT. Yet, I can't quite relax about it, fearing that he's still going to suddenly take a turn or that I'm going to do or say something to set him off again.

positive reinforcement... . lots of it.

Problem is, he picks up on my careful wording and it's one of the things he criticizes me for. Most of the time I just have to ride out the storm and nod or something.

it is a tricky balance. not only will any close romantic partner tend to pick up on our careful wording, but people with BPD traits are really hypersensitive to that kinda thing. did you check out the article on asking validating questions? any thoughts? its taken some practice, but ive found, when i otherwise wouldnt know what to say, those have become my automatic response, and it helps big time.
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« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2018, 03:29:27 PM »

I did check it out, thanks. I've been trying to ask questions along those lines -- particularly what can I do or how can I help questions. Some of the others are ones I haven't really tried but should. I appreciate the suggestions.

The place I get into the most trouble is regarding my family. I just can't agree with his perception of (some of) them. Sometimes I do find myself saying things or half-agreeing with things I don't agree with just to keep the cyclone at bay.

It's times like that that I think he does have a point. I am attached to my family. Maybe I do make too many excuses for them. And I can understand how he's gotten certain ideas about some of them. It makes sense. Yet, I also feel like I know them better and I know that there's some faulty logic going on. So, I'm torn. He's not completely wrong. But I still love them. And I love him. I've been told before, many times, that you should never (barring situations of abuse, etc.) try to come between a significant other and their family. It's just a bad idea. But he's not one who would ever agree with that. He's not close to his family so he can't understand why anyone would be unless they're brainwashed or immature or something. If he were more rational and reasonable, we could work that out but instead, it comes out in these uncontrolled rages.

I can't help but wonder if part of it is jealousy and insecurity -- jealousy that he doesn't have that close family tie (though he may be building one now) and fear that some day I'll dump him and go back to them. I feel like the only thing that will make him happy is if I completely denounce them and cut them off. That's something I refuse to do under the circumstances. He denies that's what he wants but if they're not even so much as criticizing him, how am I supposed to "take his side"?
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« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2018, 08:57:24 PM »

Very simply put: YES.  pwBPDs go to extremes when it comes to emotions; people (and things) are either black OR white, so it's no surprise that they cut people off entirely.  For my uBPDh, he would even encourage me to cut certain people around me off entirely, for example people whom he perceives are not kind to him, or people who may consider him less than perfect.  He will "make up" (not consciously I suppose, it's just his way of fitting facts to feelings) reasons why this person is horrible and a bad influence to me, and therefore should never be contacted again.  I think he does it because these people causes certain feelings that he doesn't know how to process (e.g. amplifies his feeling of self-doubt maybe?), and therefore it is easier to cut them off (therefore not have to process the feelings) rather than to deal with the feelings themselves.
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Ozzie101
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2018, 08:19:41 AM »

That sounds EXACTLY like what he does -- though he usually ends up backing off eventually. Last week, he was hung up on one sister -- the one he dislikes the most. We've had some problems and I'm not terribly close to her, though I adore her kids. Well, he wanted me to do something about it, like call my parents and blast her. Or maybe call her. He wasn't clear. I flat-out refused. He dropped it.

He's done it with friends. He's done it with my church choir director. The thing is, it passes and he'll seem fine. Then, in periods of stress, it will come up again. But that's a real boundary for me. I will not cut people out. It's not me. I can accept that people I love aren't perfect. I don't see them that way (though he accuses me of doing that). But I can still love them and want them in my life.

The not knowing how to process the feelings makes a lot of sense to me. He hates my sister because he sees her as snooty and selfish. He also knows that when we were teens, she was very cruel to me. She struggled with an eating disorder and had a lot of trouble with rage and depression and I was her main target -- actually, he reminds me a lot of her back then, come to think of it. He knows how he treats me sometimes. Maybe he's projecting his own self-hatred onto her.
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2018, 01:56:07 PM »

Wow, you've hit on something that resonated with me.  Growing up, my sister was a boundary buster, and had frequent rages.  I think it is one of the things that set me up for my relationship with my BPDw.  Lately, I've been doing much better with boundaries with my sister.  Both ways -- me calmly setting boundaries to protect myself, and me respecting her boundaries and me not trying to change her behavior even when I think she's being disrespectful to someone.

How are you doing with boundaries in your relationship with your sister?  Do you feel the childhood dynamics very strongly still, or have you been fortunate enough to grow past them to an extent, great or small?

RC
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Ozzie101
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« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2018, 09:17:52 AM »

My relationship with my sister is decent now. We're polite and friendly. We don't see each other much though and when we do, it's brief. If we have to be around each other for more than a few hours, though, I start to annoy her and she has a tendency to snap at me. I stay out of her way. Still, when I've needed help, she's jumped right in, no questions. I'd do the same for her. Most of our problems were things we grew out of.

Problem is, my husband doesn't get that. He's an only child and the complexity of the sibling relationship escapes him.
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2018, 01:18:24 PM »

That's great that you and your sister have grown past much of your earlier issues.  It sounds like you are confidently maintaining your relationships despite pressure from your husband, which is good.  Many of us have not done as well.  If your husband is cutting someone off, I imagine it can fall into two buckets -- the situation where you also have an ongoing relationship with that person, or the situation where you don't have a significant relationship with that person.  How do your feelings and responses differ for those two situations?

RC
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« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2018, 01:23:55 PM »

I think they're stronger when it's someone with whom I have a relationship but I feel much the same way in both.

For instance, he wanted to cut off a friend of almost 25 years because she didn't reply to a text. I don't know this friend nearly as well. But I felt sick that he might cut her off. It seemed wrong. I knew he would regret it and that it would hurt her, him and their other close friends.

When it's someone I have a relationship with, it's probably a more visceral response. Especially if it's family. But regardless, I don't like it and don't believe in it. In each case, I've tried to steer him away from that. He hasn't actually done it while I've been with him. No clue if he did it before. It's starting to seem more like a threat than something he carries out.

The problem is, when he wants me to cut someone off and I don't/can't do it, it sets him off. It's proof that I don't really love or support him. Because I still (occasionally) text with my sisters and care about their children.
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« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2018, 05:50:12 PM »

One of the key tricks to living with BPD in a way that causes less "wear and tear" on us is to "rewire" our responses.  For example... .

When he is threatening to cut someone off who you don't have a relationship, do you think you can just totally let go of it?  Can you think about the fact that he owns it, and you don't have to be responsible for him or those other people?  If you're empathetic and responsible, at first this may seem tough, but if you can do it successfully, it can be freeing and quite a relief.

With your realization that much of his talk about cutting people off is empty threats, does that make it any easier for you to not feel so impacted by the threats?

RC
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« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2018, 08:36:27 PM »

I am very empathetic but, yes, I can work on stepping back.

It's only now that I'm starting to see that a lot of his talk is just that -- talk. Or if there's any cutting off, he expects me to be the one to do it, which I won't do. So that knowledge may make things easier going forward.
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« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2018, 08:48:52 AM »

My husband does the same thing.

He doesn't speak to either of his parents, though admittedly they were terrible people, but he was able to cut them off without regret or longing. I cannot relate. He regularly does this to other people as well. His sister is a pain to deal with but he cut her off because he doesn't really like her and he doesn't want to badmouth his parents to her so he'd rather just not deal with her.

He regularly cuts out friends who upset him. They'll do or say something taht upsets him, and even if it's somethign small, he will claim it's part of a bigger problem, tell them what pieces of s*** they are, and cut them off for good.

It's one of my biggest fears about him leaving, because he seems to have no problem throwing away people he loves. There's no sense of forgivenss in his body. 
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« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2018, 09:12:40 AM »

Luckily my husband hasn't actually followed through on cutting people off (at least not while I've been with him). I do know he cut off some distant family but there were legitimate, rational reasons for that.

He definitely has problems with forgiveness. He holds onto every single slight -- real or imagined -- for years. And anything I may do or say will come back up later when he's angry so he can beat the dead horse again. And again.

He seems to be incapable of seeing anyone else's side or opinion, at least when he's in one of his moods. It's something I do a lot and it drives him crazy because, to him, I'm just making excuses and defending other people. Trying to do that less with him.
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« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2018, 10:02:32 AM »

Yes same. I have to fight the urge to defend myself constantly. It’s exhaustinf. I’ll give him the answer he wants when he’s angry even if it isn’t how I feel or true but that it’s what he THINKS I say or feel, and then he’s like “okay then why?” Ummmm I don’t know, because you told me that’s how I felt. I don’t sctuslly feel that. Then the cycle continues.

And according to him, it is ME who is unable to see from other people’s perspectives. I try to see fromhis perspective but his is like no one I’ve ever met. He says I must be a narcissist
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« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2018, 10:35:51 AM »

People "getting" or "not getting" him is a very big deal to him. We've been married only 2 years and dated for a year before that. To him, that means I should be able to read his mind. Yes, I'm getting better at anticipating his responses and knowing what he would like but I'm not a mind reader and I don't always know what he needs or wants. The fact that I don't means, to him, that I don't really love him.

It's not just me. He gets really frustrated with others for the same reason.

It used to make me angry but now I'm starting to see his reality behind it. It causes him genuine pain that people don't understand him. He really doesn't get it. I'm trying to be more sympathetic there because in his mind, it's a reasonable request and people not understanding just makes him feel more alone and isolated and "different." It must be scary for him. At the same time, no, I'm not going to be able to read his mind.
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« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2018, 12:03:24 PM »

The fact that I don't means, to him, that I don't really love him.

yes. i think all of us do this on some level... .expect our loved ones to know, and tend to our needs, and feel wounded when they dont. may even interpret our loved ones as ignoring or neglecting us. may act in ways to get them to "step up".

it isnt mature coping, and of course, people with BPD traits, or anyone with a very high need to be "understood" struggle exceptionally with this, struggle with seeing the distortions in thinking, struggle with challenging it.

struggle with having needs in the first place because it makes them feel powerless. and struggle to communicate needs in a mature, adult way.

theres really something to be said sometimes for stating/explaining our needs to someone and how they can help, how they can best support us.

sometimes there are ways of getting that across to our partners, that theres a better way (or a way at all) to communicate this to us, and that while we are limited human beings, we are also receptive. now, a lot of that will go out the window during a dysregulation, but generally speaking, this is something we can show consistently through words and actions, and positive reinforcement.
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« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2018, 01:23:06 PM »

My problem is, a lot of the things he demands of me are things I can't do. I can't be cruel to people. I can't cut people off. I can't attack them for things I don't see as totally wrong. I can't get all worked up and angry over every slight. I can't lash out in fury at people before I even hear their side of things.

His definition of supporting and mine are very different. Even when he's calm, he doesn't agree with me on that. He feels unloved and unsupported and I hate that. But I feel like I can't really give him the "love" he insists he needs.
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2018, 11:07:38 PM »

It is a sad and difficult when we can't fill our pwBPD's "love cup."

In a calm time, is he able to articulate the things that you do that make him feel good, to help you know what to do more of?  Are there things that you know he likes?

RC
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« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2018, 08:59:52 AM »

Occasionally he does compliment me on things. And I'm the one who researched and found his biological family, for which he gives me full credit. I also take on the chores he hates -- like laundry (which I like so not really a sacrifice). At his mom's house, I help her in the kitchen and talk to her, which helps reduce his stress. I do ask and sometimes he'll tell me what I can do. And I try to comply. I don't get a lot of compliments though but that's not his nature.
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