Daughter is pregnant with 4th child and I'm afraid to tell her I won't help her

[Enjoysnooker]

Just wondering how this sounds to you:
Maybe you could suggest to your daughter that she gets rid of some of the old stuff to make way for the new stuff?

Maybe also suggest that she only brings essential new stuff?

Or is this a step too far?

Thanks for the nod to Jimmy, I’ll take a look 

Take care 

FB x

In theory that sounds very good but in reality, her ideal of essential and my ideal of essential are worlds apart. I feel a sense of relief at having said yes simply because her attempt to make room for the baby is a positive thing. Plus, I do have the room. Not infinite room, but room.
I'm not sure she'll overtly ask for my help financially. She may not but historically she'd just let things get desperate knowing my hard-wiring is such that I'd intervene and rescue. So, we'll see. I am in a very different place in my own mind than I was with the three other births.
Any suggestions I might make to her, she's more inclined to do the opposite. It's always been a battle of wills between us and that part has not changed much. I did say it would be really a very bad idea to bring a 7th child into this equation when she told me she was living with this latest boyfriend who has his own three. And here we are. It's like she''s stuck in the rebel phase. So I try to be careful what I say to her  (that's putting it mildly).
But no, if she was more even keeled and I said let's just store things you're sure you''re going to use at a later point... .no. It's like the show on hoaders. She's organized in her hoarding but she definitely hoards. That's not an exaggeration.
Okay, time to read and hopefully sleep. Thank you for writing. I hope your weekend is good.
ES

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[GaGrl]

The idea of marking space in the basement occurred to me as I was catching up on this thread. What about a simple division using 2x4 framing and chicken wire? I've seen that in a number of apartment house storage basements. It allows for a door and a lock, which you don't need - but it allows you to say (to each son/daughter) "Here's what I can do."

 I hear that your stress over seeing your D and talking with her is much greater than the storage issue. Good job on choosing your battles.

Have you started to script your first conversation with your D? Can you start the conversation so you aren't in a position of reacting to where she takes it?

[Enjoysnooker]

Good morning, GaGirl,
I am smiling to read your post and despite being someone who smiles a lot, it's not been a week of much smiling. I was picturing myself with the chicken wire and the two by fours and it like an HGTV show but there was some bleeps when I was swearing. If you do not get HGTV, none of this will be even remotely amusing. I am not too shabby with a saw (make the saw work for you) and a hammer (use the whole hammer, don't tap it in). My father was a contractor. He had a motto, "Never lend your tools." That was a sound motto for him. He was born in 1915. I mean, can you even believe that? I can't. He died when he was 70.
So yes, defining space. Very wise. Even if I don't feel like building a makeshift locker, I thought about marking out the space with painter's tape.
Your hard question (and I appreciate it) is about what might be said. Thinking about the conversation.
I tend to write long here, I won't apologize but I will say I think it's my attempt to put things in context and give enough background that things make more sense.
So backtrack to summer when she and boyfriend came two times to store things here. Boyfriend, not a very good person. What is a good person, you may ask? And who am I to say "oh, you're good, nope, you're bad." Those are good questions. I think we'll slip that part and say that his behaviour is not good, GD1 has no use for him with good cause, he takes care of no one except himself. Period.
So in the summer they came, my husband had not met boyfriend, I'd only met him very briefly. They brought in all the boxes to store in basement, came in back through basement door. The four of us stood there. I did introductions. Now you'd think the normal thing to do was invite them upstairs and we have tea or coffee. That would be normal. I could not do that. My husband's face was not looking good, distress, anger. So they just said goodbye and left. I came upstairs and cried, for a whole lot of reasons.
Second time they brought a load I was at work and husband let them in the basement door, they dropped off stuff, they left.
Christmas they spent here. Yes. Christmas has been here at our house since forever. So yes, they were both here for Christmas. I just now remember saying to son, "She didn't drink! Wasn't it good?" Ala she usually brings booze with her, gets semi-hammered and loud and it's all very not comfortable. So no, no drinking. Nor him (boyfriend) as he had to leave early Christmas morning for a long drive to see his three children.
And then the text ala pregnant which brought me to this group and here we are.
She won't initiate anything. If conversation with her was a tennis match, I get to serve 99.9 percent of the time. Well, no. 90%. When she's more revved up for lack of a better word, she talks non-stop. You can't get a word in. Listening is not something she is fond of even when she's not talking. Does she know me? No. Not really. That sounds harsh. Well, she has so barely been in touch with us this past few years as it's been total attention lavished on the boyfriend that we just do not know each other. My very best friend died two years ago. D mentioned her and I said, "She died. She died two years ago." Case in point. Anyone who knows me knows she died.
I have said things in the past to D that I regret. Not many. And when I reflect, all in the 15/16 era. Which is a long time ago. But boy, do I regret them. See FOG FOG FOG.
I can't even imagine what I'll say to her. I don't want to talk to her. I would prefer to be out when they drop the stuff off. I also do not want to go to the hospital to see her and this baby. The two times I got a call at work that she was there (she called) and had had a baby (none of us had a clue), well, that trauma. The NICU. I just do not want to go in there. I know I need to give this a lot more thought. I can't think that far ahead. I know that my son-in-law will take the three kids to see her and baby in hospital.
So, I have no idea how conversation will go when next I see her. I sat and looked at my wool basket last night and my throat was so tight. I am a big knitter. I thought knit a hat for the baby. I thought oh man, ES, calm down, get a herbal tea, watch "The Green Book" on tv. I just need to not think about it at times. I'm still incredibly sad and incredibly angry and incredibly afraid. And only time will tell with all of this. I'll write in a month and things will be different. Then in six months things will be different again. I am the one who has gone in when she summons me and fixed things. What do they call those people in movies about crime? I forget. Something. Anyway, I have made life not just bearable but really good for those three kids. They are so lovely. So lovely. I had FaceTime with GD1 last night, she initiated. It's rare. She's shy, we do not do that often, we see each other in real life, I'll see her Monday.
So the huge question is how will this all play out in the absence of my support both financially and emotionally to my D as I choose to let her and boyfriend handle it. Handle all of it. I can't "be there" because I'm pretty well used up. I am choosing to not be there in that way that I was for the first two in particular (all with very rocky starts). GC3 is son of the current father who looks after them all and I knew about that pregnancy and went to visit like regular people do, you know, knowing beforehand you'd be going there, not just getting a call the day of.
I don't have much to say to my D. She knows how I feel. She knows. I was really clear in my talk to her when she told me she had moved out of the apartment to go live with boyfriend. I was not cruel. I didn't say awful things. But I talked about my feelings towards the people and how absent she'd been this past few years and how hard I found that, that I liked it when we saw each other, went out with the kids, laughed. I spoke from the heart without animosity other than the part about please do not bring another child into this. I asked if she was pregnant and she said no and she said, "And that is NEVER going to happen!" And I believed that. Until I couldn't.
My plan. Stay quiet. Preferably be out when they bring the stuff to store. Do not go to hospital because it feels too traumatic for me to go there and I am afraid to see the baby. It is certainly not that baby's fault, as we all know.
So, my plan is stay quiet. I'll mark out the basement space this weekend.
Thank you GG for writing and asking me that. I do not know other than my plan to breathe (always a good plan) and just cry away somewhere ( it really is hard on my husband to see my distress too much so I try to sneak cry in places, the hiding crier) and just do some peaceful things. I plan to get outdoors for part of today.

If you've gotten this far (type much, ES?) thank you for reading. And for your input. And for your good thoughts.

With gratitude,
ES

[GaGrl]

In spite of the pain and anger in your reply, you sound as if you are in a place that allows you to manage those emotions. All that you describe you can and cannot do is OK. It's OK for your daughter to hear, at the appropriate time, that you cannot do something she might expect.

(And I LOVE the HGTV channel! My grandfather was a contractor.)

[Enjoysnooker]

In spite of the pain and anger in your reply, you sound as if you are in a place that allows you to manage those emotions. All that you describe you can and cannot do is OK. It's OK for your daughter to hear, at the appropriate time, that you cannot do something she might expect.

(And I LOVE the HGTV channel! My grandfather was a contractor.)

Thank you, GaGrl. Nodding and listening to you. I have, thus far, been able to manage my emotions at this time. I have a lot more experience, age does that. A definite plus. There are definite pluses. It takes a lot of courage for me to listen to myself and say "I'm not OK with that, it is too painful for me." Re the going to the hospital. And there is a grieving with it to, I will not have taken photos, I will not be there with the ones who are there but I think being aware of my own capacity for what I can do and what it will mean is most important at this time. If that makes sense.
The smell of freshly sawed boards is one of my favourite smells in the world. Followed by crayons, sheets hung out to dry, all citrus, seaweed.
It helps me to read it is OK. I will say it silently to myself, thank you.
ES   (what's your favourite HGTV show? I know this is off topic. I'll stay on topic after this)

[GaGrl]

Hard to choose a favorite... .I just watched the Property Brothers. We just retired and moved into a retirement house we've been working on for three years, and I bought an investment house that my son will live in with a roomate, so work is going on over there. Always something!

Not exactly off topic, because I have been working on boundaries. My 92 year old mother, who has a few fleas from her uBPD/BPD stepmother (married my grandfather when mom was 6 years old) has been living in the retirement house for three years, so now I'm living with Mom for the first time since I was 17. The first week was rocky. I took a deep breath and went back to boundaries, and I'm doing much better now.

[Enjoysnooker]

 The first week was rocky. I took a deep breath and went back to boundaries, and I'm doing much better now.

Well done you for going back to tried and true things you've learned and know that work. Methinks the opportunity to practice one's boundaries is lifelong, situations just keep on cropping up. At this point, I think I should leave my coping tool box just propped open (grin). I am glad to hear you are doing much better now. Good, good.

ES

[Harri]

This topic had exceeded the post limit and has been locked.  Part 2 is located here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=333798.0