Part 2: I don’t know where to start.

[Avanzando]

Mod Note:  Part 1 of this thread is here https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339590.0

I don’t have my therapist right now so I hope you don’t mind my posting my interrupting though here.

My sister was having a high anxiety day and was hyper-cleaning (part of dissociation & part of Mom’s ocd carryover) because she had to meet with her ex-narcissist so I gave her a sample of my cognitive behavioral therapy; to sit in a quiet space for a little while and just acknowledge how she feels instead of trying to repress it; then focus on her body parts, one at a time from head to toe and acknowledge how each part feels, then in backwashes order tense each body part for 5 seconds and release- toe to head. It’s all I could think of at the moment because it helps me avoid or tone down anxiety attacks. She’s still looking for a LCSW and I hope she finds a good one soon.

I just hung up on mom for the first time. I’m in the middle of cutting, combining and freezing vegetables after a very nice Bible study this morning. She started talking about how difficult it is for her to winterize the trailer in time for the cold weather.  For the second time she brought up being confused about my writing in the letter I left for her that she uses me for a punching bag. (I wrote “I am not a doormat, pin cushion or punching bag” and something to the effect that I will not allow her to keep using me as one. I ignored her comment the first time she brought it up.) She was telling me that’s a felony and she could go to jail and I should look up the definition of punching bag before using that term.  She said she never punched me and if she goes to jail I will have to come back and take care of this place (she’s obsessed with my coming back and won’t stop making mention of it no matter what I say contrary). I reminded her that she had other ways of hurting me physically and she got agitated and told me it’s because I push her over the edge and never shut up when she tells me to. I told her she cannot blame me for her actions and aside from the physical she also uses me for a verbal punching bag which only made her more agitated. She started yelling about how I have serious issues too (making my point) and I interrupted and told her I am hanging up because I don’t want to fight.  She started saying something about my 4 page letter but I didn’t catch the rest because I actually hung up!

I feel very sorry for her and maybe hanging up wasn’t the right answer, but it’s my equivalent to ‘going for a walk’ when I lived with her and she started raging.

Yesterday was 3 full weeks since I left. I don’t know who this is harder on, her or me. She’s my mom and I do love her; I wish I could fix things for her but I can’t. It breaks my heart to hear the stress in her voice when she’s not raging. I’m trying to focus forward but that’s not easy either because it’s a blank at this point.

Thank you all for your encouragement and to realize being numb is normal does help. I haven’t been normal a day in my life!

[Avanzando]

I still text Mom each evening and morning to let her know I do car. I also responded to mom by text today by sending her 3 dictionary definitions of “punching bag” as a metaphorical noun along with examples and agin asked her to consider therapy because she has so many problems controlling her temper.

Then she texted me about not having read my texts yet because she was outside doing yard work and trying to chase off a bird that’s making a home on our roof.  I felt like a heel because of sending the text that would alter her better day. I was so stressed and depressed I couldn’t eat... again. I really don’t like being blunt and hurting people’s feelings no matter what they are like. I talked to a friend that helped me put things in a better perspective and they suggested I take a break from mom for a few days to distance myself emotionally because I’m still being her punching bag though I’m living far enough away. (I’m still helping with communications for trailer reps as the trailer is in my name and next week I will need to help her order medicine and such online but maybe fewer/ shorter conversations in between would help).

 Later, I talked about it with my sister and she said something that I haven’t figured out yet... “you’re not responsible for her feelings.” It was a shock to realize that I do keep feeling responsible for her feelings. I know not to take her actions/reactions personal anymore but I had no idea I was still walking on eggshells to try to keep her feeling content. I can’t describe how profound that one little statement was. I guess that was one of my caretaking duties, to keep mom’s emotions in balance as much as she would chaotically allow... or keep the illusion of balance.  My sister also reminded me to breathe... I believe Harri reminded me of that simple task a couple of days ago. I have taken a few breaths and am currently eating refrigerator cold sweet potato and rice... as much as my stomach will allow. I don’t have the energy to fight the wind and cold outside to reheat the food.

Anyway, that’s all for now. Now that I’m settled, I’ll have to journal again to prepare for when I resume therapy. Thanks for listening in the meantime.

[Turkish]

She likely did read the texts. 

Your sister is right: you're not responsible for your mother's feelings. 

Have you read the article here? https://bpdfamily.com/content/was-part-your-childhood-deprived-emotional-incest

I was certainly Parentified, but to this day I still struggle how much i was cast to be responsible for my mother emotionally.

[Avanzando]

This article is dead on I think.  It’s amazing how it’s so hard to recognize these things and harder to admit we’re that warped in the family dynamics. I have told my story a number of times over the past 3 weeks but it is all still so surreal, like I’m talking about a movie I saw rather than it being my own life.  

Mom acted like nothing was wrong today and keeps heaping on the guilt still that people won’t talk to her because of me and I remind her that I was selective in the people I talked to and the information I gave. (What I didn’t tell her is that being on the road I’ve opened up to the people I stayed with and they knew she had problems and was very controlling). Today she said she could easily badmouth me, and it would all be true, but she won’t because it’s wrong to treat people that way.

I’m glad she recognizes it, but I wish she would apply it in all areas of her life- not just areas that would make her look bad. People know what she’s like, but that has nothing to do with me. Then again, for her to admit she too is finite might make her world implode and that is a risk she’s not willing to take.

The depression that hit me yesterday is still hovering, but not near as strong. I’m grateful for the support of this site and friends and my sister (and God for helping me have a support team) to help me keep focused on reality; otherwise I would be back to feeling a hair breadth away from insanity... it comes in waves, but it’s more managed than it used to be.

[Avanzando]

Ok... a piece of good news. I would shout from the roof tops if I could! I am making progress!

The weather has been in the freezing temperatures and I and the animals have been cooped up in the van for nearly a week... short excursions out into the unexpected snow/freezing rain that hit all of NM. I went about as far south as I could but it was still bad; it was too cold to empty the rear bench (my bed) so I slept in the captains chair for 2 nights with my feet up on a bin.  I had some leftover food from a couple days ago that I placed portions into a ziplock and sandwiched between my windshield and bubble insulation on the dash board (to help radiate heat into the front seats during daylight hours. Anyway, things finally started warming up today and I was able to manage more self-care and empty the bench and the animals and I even had the reward of spending an hour outside soaking in the sun.  I had just put all the Aires out bedding back and fed the critters when I heard a man shouting. It sounded like he was calling someone’s name and it wasn’t mine so I ignored it.  However, when I turned around I saw an older man walking straight toward me shouting “Miss”.

This is where it gets interesting because I was completely out of my normally responsive self.  I started walking toward him when an alarm bell went off to not separate from my pack (dogs were out on long leashes). I stopped at the nose of the van.  The man mentioned that I had a camping chair (what business was it of his to know what I have?) and invited me to grab it and come join him and his buddy for some “hot toties” (alcoholic drink). I immediately felt my upper lip curl and I brashly answered “No thanks!” and walked back over to my dogs. He got the message and left. 

Normally I would have been put on the spot, froze up, and trying to find polite excuses to be to occupied to join them or I would have felt obligated to go for a couple of minutes at least, though I don’t drink and I’m not comfortable around people when they drink (triggering). Also, I’ve curled my lip at some nasty food a time or two, but never at another human being- it’s very rude to behave that way.

I felt fear when he was approaching, invaded that he knew a few things about me without being invited to,  disgusted by his invitation- though I cannot tell if it was innocent or not- and rather than feeling guilt or shame... I feel liberated for being able to say no  with ATTITUDE! It’s often these kinds of situations that put me in a position to be hurt- I can’t say no because it’s not polite and I was raised to be polite to adults... even at my own cost. It’s never been ok to be taken advantaged of and now I’m learning I have the choice to say no and make myself understood clearly.  It was nice to rescue that little girl inside today who began feeling intimidated, betrayed and anxious as the man was approaching. I kind of felt like an attitudei teenager the way I responded, but it worked and the message was heard loud and clear.

When I took the dogs for their walk, I figured I’d learned the lip curl from my alpha dog, she does that a lot when there’s something going on she doesn’t like. Later on, they let their dog loose and as it was coming toward me and my dog; I growled and set my dog off and theirs stopped dead in its tracks and was recalled back to the owner.  Later, when heading to the public bathrooms, my alpha dog (service dog/protector) kept looking over that way and I would let out a.growl and she would respond with an alert posture or an echo growl. We’re finally learning how to work in sync! I’m proud of her and I am proud of me and thank God for the ability to be a little bit more emotionally strong and for helping me not buckle under he pressure.

That’s all I wanted to share today! Thanks for listening!

[Avanzando]

Yesterday was 1 month from my leaving Mom; Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 4:20am.

I’m still alive, even through the deep freeze, and yesterday I felt calmer than usual... no edgy anxiety. I even took a nap. I feel a tad more confident and I don’t mind taking my time in getting things done. Today I cooked outside, even through  the rain showers, and showered in the Luke-cool water at the campground. When a good rain picked up I cleaned up my outdoor kitchen, washed the picnic table and, when the rain quit, I washed the van that’s been needing care for at least the last two weeks. I’m feeling more focused and am handling immediate changes better than normal. I caught up on journaling, my Bible studies are more focused, and I’m better appreciating the nature that surrounds me. I’ve hung up on mom once, and yesterday I scolded her for not backing off when I told her I couldn’t afford to do what she wanted me to do. I didn’t mean to scold her but I do need to make my point clear- I still need work on communication skills. I feel more content overall and am grateful for the support to keep grounded in the new reality.

[Turkish]

You describe a cool picture, and I'm glad that you taking time for yourself is calming.

[Avanzando]

Update.  I finally came to realize, after years of denial, the only adequate explanation for my broken tail bone (coccyx), that fused back together crooked and causes bathroom issues, is from one extreme spanking I got at about age 11; 4 wooden spoons and the blood vessels in her hand were broken over my backside and I was in pain for weeks- I had to sit in school like that and it was hard to eat because I felt like vomiting. Only the abuse and pain from it makes sense to that particular injury.

The past two weeks I also found out my mom tried to kill my sister through sabotage (she partially, discreetly cut the bindings on my sister’s snowboard and she didn’t realize it until she was at the top of a mountain ready to descend; something didn’t feel quite right and when she went to readjust the bindings she saw the slices); this was done when we loaded up my sister stuff on the porch just after my sister ran away from home. That set me back severely in my recovery. No only is that a new low for Mom- that she is willing to try to kill her own child, but I took it personal because I was my sister’s surrogate mother growing up and her protector (to the best of my ability). I was suicidally depressed and threw out all the self-care I’ve been learning and opted for self-harm again over the guilt and shame.

I am slowly trying to get back into self-care and be functional, but it’s hard because I’ve lost the ambition to get through each day. My animals are the ones right now motivating me to get out of bed.

Then Mom blames me and my sister for her own lack of spiritual growth over the years (saying she can now have one-on-one time with God and that’s all the therapy she needs), I texted her to stop blaming us for her abuse and blaming us for her not setting the example of a good parent or good Christian. I stated that our responsibility was to learn from her and I cited examples of negative things she taught us- to be afraid of her, to lie about her abuse and to make excuses for her lashing out at other people. She texted to tell me I shouldn’t send such negative comments because it hurts her feelings. I replied that it’s such a shame she has double standards; she thinks it ok to hurt other people but doesn’t like it when they hurt her feelings by telling her the truth about her behavior. I did agree though to try to keep my pain to myself since she doesn’t want to hear it anyway.

Then, 2 days ago someone I barely know was using emotional blackmail (FOG) to try to get me to do more spiritually and I was outraged and made it clear I am in no position to do so right now. When he wouldn’t let it go I told him no again and told him I will keep his advice for- if ever- I am healthy enough to appreciate it!  I was mad.  Then that night I made the mistake of watching a documentary on PTSD which made me feel like an endless battle that I will have to suffer through every day for the rest of my life. The combination of the two ruminated in my mind over night and by yesterday morning I was back to being suicidal. I couldn’t come out of it until a friend called me and spent 2 hours on the phone helping me to process, distract and whatever else was needed to get into a better frame of mind.

All I can say is I hate this insanity!

I was occupied enough today and played music in the background to drown out the voice of the critic and I made it through today with a little self-care mixed in.

[Harri]

Hi and thanks for the update.  I am sorry to hear you are having such a tough time yesterday and today especially though I am glad you are reaching out.  Your injury sounds intense and I am sorry that that happened.  Same with your sister and you mom cutting her bindings.  Both of those things are horrible.  Does writing about them act as a release of sorts?  Do you feel better after having shared them?

I was suicidally depressed and threw out all the self-care I’ve been learning and opted for self-harm again over the guilt and shame.

How are you now?  Are you able to look back and see where you made the choice to go back to old coping skills?

I am slowly trying to get back into self-care and be functional, but it’s hard because I’ve lost the ambition to get through each day. My animals are the ones right now motivating me to get out of bed.

I am glad you are working on this and even more glad your animals are motivation for you.  What else are you doing during the day to help yourself?

I did agree though to try to keep my pain to myself since she doesn’t want to hear it anyway.

What sort of response were you hoping for from your mother? 

The combination of the two ruminated in my mind over night and by yesterday morning I was back to being suicidal.

I am glad you were able to talk with a friend to help you.  Are you aware of the text line 741-741?  You can text them and chat with someone.  It is free and available 24/7.  I just want to mention that as a back up for you.

I am sorry things have been so difficult for you, but again, I am glad you are reaching out and fighting through the pain and depression.  That takes a lot of strength and courage.

[Avanzando]

Harri,

My journaling is downhill too. I get too frustrated so I’m seriously deficient in writing. Posting here, I don’t know; I’m so very frustrated and confused I just can’t make sense of it... and don’t have therapy yet. I am trying to wait for my therapist because I dread trying to start over... I am so shocked by how deplorable mom can be I’m in a tailspin and even the smallest things seem gigantic right now and insurmountable. I was gaslit into her being my heroine and I’ve been told repeatedly that I’ve lived a very sheltered life and it’s all unraveling so fast... I have an expression that I think applies well here: “PLEASE STOP THE WORLD! I WANT TO GET OFF!” (I’m not good on roller-coasters).

Today I forced myself to do self-care, which I’ve neglected these past couple of weeks. Feeling forced makes me feel disgruntled so it’s a bit of a paradox. Today I accomplished a walk with the animals, a shower, putting on lotion for my excessively dry skin, cooking for the next few days and bike riding the dogs to wear them out extra because they’ll be more cooped up with the rain tomorrow. I was hoping to take a nap but the wind made the cooking time a lot longer than expected (outdoor propane burners).

I knew right away I was going to be self-destructive when it sunk in that my mom is capable of murder when in a rage; I felt it coming and just couldn’t stop it- I am so ashamed to be my mother’s daughter. I wish I would’ve been the stillborn I was supposed to be. I was born traumatically, though emergency c-section, because one leg was stuck over my head; Mom and I both almost died and I sincerely wish I would have. Mom thinks that was the beginning of our “special bond”. The realization of how deplorable Mom can be and the shame of the abuses are where the self-destructive motivation came from. It’s agony to be alive! I’m not a fighter by nature, and frankly I’m too exhausted to get through one hour let alone one day.

I’ve been kicking myself for being petrified to visit mom, my vivid imagination keeps telling me she might try to kill me if I show up and try to leave again. I know she’s abusive but, when I left, I was only afraid she would put me in the hospital so I couldn’t leave. I didn’t understand where this paranoia is coming from that she would try to kill me. Now that my sister exposed another level of Mom’s diabolical mind, I’m thinking maybe the abused little girl in me was afraid of being killed if I tried to visit- maybe she knows something I don’t remember (yet)... which frightens me more.

I’ve even thought of rehoming the animals because I can’t deal with a lifetime of flashbacks, relapses and chronic mental/emotional pain, but the other part of me is using them for motivation to get out of bed and have something to take care of. For the time being they rely on me for their safety and care. I promised God I would not attempt suicide for one year, no matter how hard things get, if he would help me find someone professional to figure out what’s wrong with me.  He held up his end of the bargain and I am determined to hold up mine.  If, after that year is up, I still can’t shake being suicidally depressed, then I asked that God not hold it against me for putting an end to the agony.  My year isn’t up until the end of March 2020. Until then, the animals are a positive distraction from being overwhelmed to the point of attempting suicide again.

I’ve been trying to get Mom to seek therapy for years. She doesn’t feel the need for anything except the Bible. I didn’t text her for a reaction from her; she’s too narcissistic to accept any responsibility- other than superficially.  I wrote the text for myself... and in a way, for my little sister (10 years younger than me) hoping it would lessen some of the madness/insanity I feel inside. She doesn’t know I’m in contact with my sister; she’s proud of not talking to my sister whom she proudly calls an “emotional vampire”. I know my sister has problems, but to go to that extreme seems more like projection to me. I don’t feel it’s right for me to confront her with attempted murder, which she’d deny or gaslight anyway, but I was sick to death of her blaming us for her abusive personality and many rages over the years. So, for  my sake, and partly in a very-late defense for my sister, I confronted the abuse- no softening the issue as I have been to keep mom from being overly depressed, no accepting partial blame, no more being a doormat, pin cushion or verbal punching bag. When my sister’s life was threatened... to me, Mom way over-crossed the line and I felt the burning need to confront the abuse head on. It’s dysfunctional that the line was drawn that close to death but it’s the same with drawing the line at the point of being suicidal, (which I’ve learned I’m also suicidal by proxy, but that’s another matter).

I considered the crisis line, but I couldn’t bring myself to do it. I’ve told my story to enough people and now I feel like a broken record and it’s frustrating to relive it over and over and I don’t want to start over... especially with a stranger who looks at a chart as a step by step guide to help someone process any problem that leads them to feeling suicidal. I have called the crisis line twice in the past, RAINN once, and though I do value their work and the effort they put into helping people, and though I was helped when I called in, I’ve developed this dreaded feeling like I’m almost talking to a robot with a human voice. Maybe it’s to do with being so isolated for years, or not knowing how to communicate right- I’m sure it’s me- but I was just frustrated at the thought of calling them. The VA has also been concerned that I’m without a therapist right now and wants to set up a therapist until mine has has her license approved to practice in NM, but I dread starting over. I don’t have the emotional capacity to go through the frustration of finding another therapist to work with- one that shows up for her appointments, one that works deeper than teaching me self-esteem and mindfulness practices that are over my head. it took a lot to find the one I have. I’m just trying to hold out. That’s part of why I keep leaning on the support groups (2) right now, because there’s already an understanding of the dynamics. I also reach out to spiritual friends who have an understanding of what’s going on... most of them have been victims of Mom’s wrath at some point in the past and I’ve talked to them about the hfNBPD. The one that called me is one that checks on me, like a big brother, every few days to make sure I’m physically and emotionally ok. Turns out his ex-wife had hfNBPD  and didn’t know what went wrong until I started describing it with Mom. He divorced her for his safety and that of his son. He actually sounds relieved to finally have answers.

I know others on these board have witnessed their parent(s) murdering someone, others who were almost killed by their BP parent. I know I’m not alone, but it is a shock for me because I felt Mom had a limit to her abuse... and everything I know or remember is changing and it’s overwhelming. All the years I’ve studied the Bible and sections are taking on a whole new meaning for me now too and it adds to my being overwhelmed; scriptures that condemn certain thoughts, attitudes and conduct and the consequences for those who don’t listen.

I don’t know how those that had it rougher than me can survive and cope mentally/emotionally with what they’ve been through. My heart goes out to them for sure because what I’ve been through is enough to make me feel insane.

[Avanzando]

My therapist has set up a telephone conference for Friday.

[Harri]

I knew right away I was going to be self-destructive when it sunk in that my mom is capable of murder when in a rage; I felt it coming and just couldn’t stop it- I am so ashamed to be my mother’s daughter.

I understand.  My mother was capable of killing me as well.  She kept a gun beside her to protect herself from me.  Slightly different details, but close enough I think.   When she got scared she would whisper to me "see that gun Harri?  It is for you..."  It messes with your head for sure.

You are not the same as your mother.  Her behaviors, her proclivities, her beliefs are not yours and are not a reflection of who you are.  Don't take that on.  I know emotionally it can be hard not to, however there is a time when we have to use our logic to reason through the emotional times and upset so we can get to a more realistic understanding of what happened. 

What helped me was to focus on what this behavior said about her rather than me.  It was a huge struggle to make that differentiation but it is possible.  So how can you turn this A?  How can you reframe this?

The realization of how deplorable Mom can be and the shame of the abuses are where the self-destructive motivation came from. It’s agony to be alive! I’m not a fighter by nature, and frankly I’m too exhausted to get through one hour let alone one day.

The cure for shame is to talk about the events and bring them into the light.  Share them with others, here or in therapy.   It is the only way I know of that helped me.  Getting the perspective and support from others after sharing the most shameful of the abuses has been freeing and healing.  Hard to do but so worth it.

Now that my sister exposed another level of Mom’s diabolical mind, I’m thinking maybe the abused little girl in me was afraid of being killed if I tried to visit- maybe she knows something I don’t remember (yet)... which frightens me more.

It is possible there is ore to remember.  Our minds protect us in some pretty incredible ways.  We remember when we are ready.  sometimes there are no 'new' memories but perhaps new details or clarity that can come and help us gain more perspective.  sometimes too, it is our inner child feeling free enough to show her feelings and that fear is what you felt as a child.  Have you spent some time getting to know your inner child and helping her deal with her feelings?

My therapist has set up a telephone conference for Friday.

I am glad and relieved to read this.  Please let us know how things go.  I am glad you are keeping in touch with us as well.

[Avanzando]

BPD family central
Well, I had therapy yesterday and percolates on the information last night (my mind never shuts off and does a lot of sorting and filing when I’m supposed to be asleep). My therapist had good points, of course.

Basically she said I’m just overwhelmed. I am trying to function and have healthy routines while living in the state parks, I’ve recently reunited with my sister and am battling between my mother and sister role, we’re remembering past traumas together, I’m in 2 therapy groups where one (not this one) is very triggering with questions asked or input is asked for with comments made. And now there’s this overwhelming news about Mom trying to kill my sister. I am physically, mentally and emotionally overwhelmed.

She says I am not degreasing but I am battling between moving forward and falling into accepting responsibility for Mom’s attempt to take my sister’s life. I’m progressing still, even though I’ve had a few setbacks; I’m moving forward though some extra thick sludge right now which can make it seem like I’m going backwards.  The cynic’s voice is very strong trying to gaslight me into taking the blame for Mom and to make me feel worthless and suicidal again; the critical words expressed in my despair sound like they’re coming straight from Mom. (A “duh” moment...that point helped a lot!)

She asked how I would have known Mom sabotaged the snowboard. I told her I was waiting for retaliation from Mom after K ran away and I was taking the brunt of it, but I felt there was something more. I was surprised she didn’t retaliate against my sister more than she did.  

I told her that I have come to recognize Mom has jealousy issues, like ‘how dare you defy me’ attitude or ‘if I can’t control you, you’re going to pay for it!’ (kind of like ‘If I can’t have you, no one can’ attitude). I was born into BP reality and Mom had predictable patterns; for example, she would bluntly damage thing we appreciate to get the point across that she’s in control. However, when I was engaged she became very unpredictable and I was afraid of her... more than usual. Knowing what I know now, I believe she was in a jealous rage when she sliced the bindings on my sister’s snowboard. She asked me if I felt like confronting Mom about it and I said no- there’s no point; she’s too narcissistic to accept any responsibility for her actions. My therapist added that Mom was likely dissociated when she did it, perhaps more than usual and became “unpredictable”, maybe she didn’t plan it or think it through- she just did what felt right to her in that dissociated moment. She likely would legitimately not remember even if I confronted her in detail. I expressed that mom is very sick and she needs help, and that I feel ashamed to be her daughter; she never should have had kids. I told her the thought of living close to Mom at any point in the future is looking more and more bleak because she’s still abusing me by phone, never taking responsibility for her own actions.

She told me to keep fighting and don’t allow the cynic to blackmail me into giving up. The blame and shame are not mine, the abuses are not my fault, the attempt on my sister’s life is not my fault. I need to acknowledge that I’m simply overwhelmed at the moment and keep processing through it like I’ve been learning and make sure to stop and make time for self-care again.

We talked a little about plans, crisis line, etc. I told her I’m becoming phobic of the crisis line- for no reason.  I told her that I don’t want a new therapist because it’s like a death sentence to start over with a new therapist- it took 20 years of suicidal depression for me to meet her and have a therapist who could figure out what’s going on. I can’t go another 20 years looking.

She’s scheduling me for 2 to 3 weeks out for another welfare check and wants me to keep in touch by secure email in the meantime.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I bought the SWOK & workbook for my sister a couple of weeks ago. The first chapter was similar to a book she’d read in 2010. The other day she called me, very discouraged, to ask me a serious question: “Do I have this too? Sometimes I feel the Borderline over-reactions when disciplining my son. Does this mean I inherited it too?” I had that very question with my therapist after reading the first few pages of that book. I shared the response I received. I asked my sister if she brought up Borderline with therapists. When she affirmed it I asked if they diagnosed her with it, she said no. I next explained that we both inherited the hypersensitive emotions, but... as survivor skills we had to learn some of Mom’s narcissistic borderline behaviors;  we were forced into certain patterns- there were consequences for disobedience. We learned to lie to hide Mom’s abuse, and manipulate people for mom to get what she wanted. She also installed a cynic in us to continue tormenting is with her verbal abuse long after she was gone. Without knowing what damage her brainwashing caused, we can’t find ways to fix what’s broken. The book is giving my sister step-by-step insight, giving knowledge, knowledge in turn is giving her power. Now she’s recognizing the patterns and has insight as to why she reacts the way she does... now she has the power to change it! Not only that, but she has the power to change how her kids will grow up, she has the power to end the abuse. No one can fix the trauma but she has the power to end the trauma.  Yesterday she told me she sank into one of her unexplained crying jags and she texted for her boyfriend (whose been hearing bits and pieces of the abuse in the book) to come and hold her so she doesn’t cry alone... my sister, like me, doesn’t like to show vulnerability to anyone so this was a big step for her. And he, whose clueless on how to fix the broken woman he cares about, finally had a job to do- not to fix her, but to support her.
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Today Mom and I got into a heated argument. I was keeping her in the loop that I will be moving to a warmer park on Monday because another snowstorm is expected here and it’ll be in the 40’s afterwards.

She called and asked me if I’m sure I want to be living this way (honestly, who wants to live homeless, in frigid temperatures, in a van that is rusting apart, around several triggers and phobias, having to watch the weather every day to know when to be-line to a more functional area?). I told her that I have to live this way for now and she retorted (again) that I could always come home. I told her that coming home is not possible. She told me that we can work it out and I can call whatever spiritual elders I like that I think will help. I told her it’s too late for that; I left because of her abuse- for years I have begged her to get help and to get the spiritual elders involved but she refused to get help.  Now I’m refusing to stay in the abuse. I need to heal and I cannot do so in the abuse. She said she didn’t call to argue then commented that all my lies and deceptions were unfair to her and I should not have left like I did. I told her that I withheld some information (learning privacy) but I did not lie to her and to stop blaming me and putting stuff on me! She said I lied because I told her everything I was doing was for her when in reality I was only doing it for myself. I told her that I did not say that and that the majority of what I did was for her benefit- I gave her examples. She got mad and told me again that it was wrong to leave like that when there’s other options; that I shouldn’t have stayed so we could work it out. I told her I tried to leave since 2011 because nothing was worked out because she didn’t want to change the abuse! I told her this was the only option I had left; no choice! I told her she has serious mental issues and needs help. She stated again that she didn’t call to fight then retorted that I have mental problems too. She said that therapy is good for a lot of people but not everyone, obviously!  I stated her issues are deeper than what the elders can do to help. She said aha that she didn’t want to fight and she hung up on me. I felt the need to be heard- for my own sake more than expecting anything from her so I finished my statement by text. This is what it read:

“If you don't want to hear it, don't bring it up.

Going home is NOT an option for me... anymore than it was for you when you were a teenager. I need to heal and I cannot do that in the abuse. Even now you still find  verbally/emotionally ways to abuse me, but now, when I stand up to it, I don't have to be afraid of your threats or afraid of you becoming physically violent.

When I can find some balance and strength away from the abuse, and I can can be mentally more stable... and you get the help you need to stop being abusive and are willing to contribute to a respectful and peaceful relationship... then I might be able to live close by. Right now, there is no place I can call home.”

I know it’s not the right answer, to be so blunt. She is my mother.  I feel if I am not brutal to hold my ground with boundaries and limits, I will be swallowed up into the abuse again. Every day is a fight for me. Every minute of ever day. I did not accept the gaslighting, blame shifting, and emotional blackmail she was using to derail me yet again. That’s really what I was standing up to... talking back to the cynic in my head or the creator of that cynic is vital for me to keep moving forward.  Sometimes I even respond harsh to someone who may mean well but triggers me when when I recognize they’re using gaslighting or emotional blackmail to try to sway me.

This is all so very confusing. I’m hoping one day that I will be comfortable enough in my own skin to find a balance; that I no longer feel the need to prove myself or defend myself.

[Avanzando]

I have a question that I’m not able to find the differences of in research. Maybe there’s a little more insight in here.

What is the difference between a ‘Quiet Borderline’ and someone with Codependency Disorder (as a daughter of a Borderline), Complex PTSD, Major Depression with Anxious Disorder, Dissociative Disorder?

They sound very similar and I can relate to the ‘Quiet Borderline’ but have not been diagnosed with it, just the Codependency Disorder.

Thanks in advance for the insight.

[Turkish]

Co-dependency started out to refer to those who had loved ones with addictions.  To this day, it is not a clinically recognized diagnosis. DPD (dependent personality disorder) is recognized, but it's no co-dependency.  Who diagnosed you with co-dependency?

Codependency can be distinguished from DPD because codependent people are dependent on a specific person(s), while people with DPD are dependent on others in general. Codependency can be distinguished from BPD; while BPD includes instability in interpersonal relationships, it does not involve dependence on other people.

To sum up, codependency is a psychological concept that refers to people who feel extreme amounts of dependence on certain loved ones in their lives, and who feel responsible for the feelings and actions of those loved ones. Codependency is not recognized as a distinct personality disorder by any version of the DSM, including the DSM-5, the most recent version.

There isn't a "quiet bordeline" Dx. It's a term used to describe mostly those who are sub-clinical. That being said, not all people with bordeline personality disorders cut, are promiscuous, are violent, or may be visibly to the public as "obviously" dysfunctional. Those are the common traits which people "diagnose" those as having BPD.  Here is that clinical definition:  

https://bpdfamily.com/content/borderline-personality-disorder

This is from the green pull down tabs at the top of the site.  The articles there are top level summaries which I encourage everyone to read.  

As for your other questions, take a look at this board and you will find discussions which may help answer your other questions.

Library: Psychology questions and answers

[Avanzando]

Thank you, Turkish.

I saw a few articles/groups on quiet borderlines who have fear of being controlled or abandoned and internalize their reactions with mental/emotional withdrawal from others, self injury, dissociation and other things I could relate to. I didn’t realize it was not an official diagnosis. I know those of us raised by a BPD parent can exhibit similar traits to what was listed.

Needless to say, I get easily confused and overwhelmed (a horrible feeling at 39). For being parentified all my life it’s difficult to come out of the alternate reality I was raised in. I’m used to finding the answers or fixing the problem. It’s not so easy this time and I still feel like I’m losing my mind. I do appreciate the help in sorting through this chaos.

[Avanzando]

What is the likelihood of finding a Narcissistic Borderline mental-health therapist?

I went to the VA the other day for a mental health intake appointment. The therapist scolded me for thinking my mom has Borderline traits, accused me of being controlling over my mom and finding a sense of joy in taking control away from her over the years, told me my mom only lashes out because she’s losing control of her own life because of me. She denied my complex PTSD and got frustrated that I could not stick to one trauma. She wanted to know when I was fine and at what point I changed from the (1) trauma. Every time I gave her a wrong answer she would give me the right one. She wants me on 12-15 treatments of Cognitive Programming Therapy; they are a goal oriented program so they don’t extend treatment past a couple of sessions even if I can’t keep up. If I want to get well I have to do the homework. How do you boil a lifetime of trauma down to one, and know that 12-15 sessions of therapy is enough?

I had a traumatic entry into this world (mom and I both almost died because my foot was stuck over my head), I was mentally/psychologically, emotionally, physically, financially and spiritually abused by my mother and grandparents (except they were not financially abusive), abandon by my father at a young age and emotionally abused by him the few times I’d talked to him over the years, molested by my uncle as a toddler, sexually assaulted by a cousin and later a neighbor in adolescence... that I know of. I was taught to gaslight the things that went on around me and I was able to find good things in life in spite of the traumas; art and creative writing became my outlets in high school.
Then, at 17, I joined the military and was becoming physically disabled (heading for a wheelchair) and severely depressed. I was punished with harder work and longer hours and put through mental/emotional trauma for not keeping up. I was put on a pain medication and in that time period I was raped. I couldn’t bounce back anymore; that’s when my spring broke. My entire life changed- I gave up on life and God, I became very dark. I attempted suicide twice before I was discharged. I gaslit the rape and the first suicide attempt. I was hospitalized with the second so there was no way of denying that one. I was put on Zoloft to remedy the suicidal depression. My boyfriend saw the changes, my family saw the changes. I became homicidal/suicidal. The psychiatrists at the VA wouldn’t listen and I removed myself from Zoloft, which finally dissipated the homicidal ideations. I was left with suicidal depression for 20 years.
In California, back in March (20 years after being discharged from the military) the VA finally found me help through veterans choice program. I had a good independent therapist, but I decided to move out of mom’s house in order to heal- I can’t heal in the continued abuse. That took me out of state and I lost my therapist. Now I’m starting over and I get this... this... confrontational therapy.

The intake therapist had my head spinning so bad I had an anxiety attack and self-harm mental breakdown ( I was screaming at myself and punching the crap out of my head with both fists) on the highway heading home; one of the worst I ever had and the first time I was ever a danger on the road. A mile later I saw a Rest Area sign and immediately pulled off. I called the crisis line in the middle of my uncontrollable inburst! After about an hour and a half I was calm enough to drive home, I journal everything that was spinning in my head and sent a secure message to my former therapist- hoping she was real.

I dissociated into not believing I was in therapy at all or that I’m living homeless with my animals or that I have a support team helping me cope- I felt like all of it was just dreaming. My sister validated shared memories of mom’s abuse from the mental illness, reminded me that she knew about it long before I did,  and listed who my support friends are; I’d only recently reconnected with my sister so I wasn’t sure I was really even talking to her. I spoke with my former therapist, still in that dissociated state of mind, and she validated everything I said about how confrontational that new therapy session went, that she has not seen indications in 7 months (2x week) of me being abusive to others, and explained I was in a severe dissociative episode for survival because of how badly I was triggered. She confirmed that I really did have 7 months of therapy, and I am living homeless in New Mexico. All of that is real and it’s not wrong for me to a know my mom’s abuse. It’s ok for me to not want to see the new therapist again. That’s good because I feel like I’m on the brink of another implosive episode.

All support parties are in agreement of my moving back to California where I can continue a more healthy and safe therapy and my former therapist is ok with resuming the former therapy when I get there.

I still don’t feel right in the head. My head and neck are swollen and aching from the punches and slamming my face into the steering wheel. I still feel dissociated. And it’s stressful looking for a cheap but descent looking trailer in the midst of a freight ended and chaotic mind.

Could that new therapist  have been a Narcissistic Borderline to have triggered me so badly?

[Avanzando]

Hello again!

Yes I am still alive. I almost didn’t make it a few times, but here I am to write once again.

On October 5, 2020 I celebrated my one year anniversary- I have survived one year on my own, out of the abuse. I have learned a lot this past year and am working on a very difficult recovery. I have come to realize my biological mother has traits of Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissism as well as having BPD. I realize that has caused a ton of damage that needs a ton of repair. Not to mention other abuses from other people throughout my life. I have been free of intentional self-harm for 7 months (still working on the ingrained habitual self-harm) and have not been actively suicidal in 8 months (still working on the passive suicidal ideations). Not only am I working hard on trauma recovery and building my identity, but I have managed to turn a small support team into a growing family.  That’s right, I am making my own family since my bio family never wanted the responsibility of raising me to be a mentally healthy individual. My biological sister is part of the family I am building though and I am so grateful to be reconnected with her.

I would have celebrated my anniversary with her but I tested positive for COVID so I spent the anniversary celebration with supportive friends who I was in quarantine with (also COVID positive). When I recover enough my sister and I are still going to celebrate! It will be out “New Chapter” celebration.

Also, I have tried all the boundary settings and consequences, but it came to the point where no contact with my bio mom was the safest and most reliable option I had. She finds new avenues to contact me and I block her again.

I have a new therapist as of 3 months ago and she has me active in many group therapies and I am realizing it’s for good reason. I still struggle with reality and I still get severely triggered incredibly easy. There are days when I am so mentally exhausted I just want to quit everything but I don’t because I still feel suicide waiting around the corner for me and I don’t want to go back there. I still rely on other people (in my support group) to help me see things from a balanced perspective so I can make healthier choices, but at least I have a few trustworthy people willing to help. For example, they would stay on the phone with me to help me work through problems or distract me from self-harm, they reasoned with me several times- when I bought a trailer to live in- to keep me from turning my trailer over to my mother, they helped me through many anxiety attacks and listened as I cried with understanding a new level of abuse. They are my refuge and shelter until I am strong enough to stand on my own... and I hope they  will always be my family. I am grateful for their friendship and for what each one contributes in patiently helping me learn how to think and feel in a healthy way.

Overall, I am relatively marvelous considering I live  in a world of immaculate chaos!

I am posting this to give hope to others who are struggling to let you know that it can get better if you keep working at it, one step at a time, one foot in front of the other!

[wantmorepeace]

Avanzando, thank you for sharing good news!  Wishing you and all of us more and more strength.