Escalating escalating escalating

[Parents! Get help here!]

So we removed the vodka bottle and whilst searching her room found 10 or 12 prescription drugs hidden in a jacket pocket, think they maybe Xanax, took them to a pharmacist and the police station and they couldn’t be sure what they were. Confronted dd as she’d asked to have a sleepover tonight with a friend she’d met as an inpatient when she was in hospital the last time, I’ve met him very briefly one time. The condition of her staying over at his parents house was that I’d need to speak to his parents first. So seemed like a good time to question her about our drug find as she’d be less likely to go into a rage. She didn’t say much about her find, someone gave them to her etc etc, we explained our fears ‘your on medication and these aren’t prescribed for you’ etc. She went on her way to her friends which I might add is a three hour bus ride away. To cut a long story short after giving us both the boy’s parents phone number and calling and texting them, I got no answer from the dads number the ‘mother’ replies saying yes I know your dd is staying over tonight, that’s no problem, I’ll keep an eye on them. I replied when you get a chance I’d like to speak with you, to which I got no reply. I informed my dd by text that if i didn’t get to speak with one of the parents she wouldn’t be staying the night. No reply or response, she ignored our calls, we continued to call the ‘parents’ with no luck.Then my husband finally gets through to the ‘mother’ who confirms that yes our dd is staying with her tonight, my husband passes me the phone so I can hear the voice and immediately know I’m not hearing an adult but a teenager, she closes the phone, we call and call our not so dd, she finally picks up exclaims his parents are working late bla bla bla and my husband gets to talk to the boy and asks where do you live? Can I get an address? No he says I don’t give out my address to strangers! Dd finally comes clean, I’ve been caught in a lie, but I’m having a good time, I’m sorry. Dh is now making his 3 hour journey down to collect her from the city centre before making his way back home 

[Overseas]

So we removed the vodka bottle and whilst searching her room found 10 or 12 prescription drugs hidden in a jacket pocket, think they maybe Xanax, took them to a pharmacist and the police station and they couldn’t be sure what they were. Confronted dd as she’d asked to have a sleepover tonight with a friend she’d met as an inpatient when she was in hospital the last time, I’ve met him very briefly one time. The condition of her staying over at his parents house was that I’d need to speak to his parents first. So seemed like a good time to question her about our drug find as she’d be less likely to go into a rage. She didn’t say much about her find, someone gave them to her etc etc, we explained our fears ‘your on medication and these aren’t prescribed for you’ etc. She went on her way to her friends which I might add is a three hour bus ride away. To cut a long story short after giving us both the boy’s parents phone number and calling and texting them, I got no answer from the dads number the ‘mother’ replies saying yes I know your dd is staying over tonight, that’s no problem, I’ll keep an eye on them. I replied when you get a chance I’d like to speak with you, to which I got no reply. I informed my dd by text that if i didn’t get to speak with one of the parents she wouldn’t be staying the night. No reply or response, she ignored our calls, we continued to call the ‘parents’ with no luck.Then my husband finally gets through to the ‘mother’ who confirms that yes our dd is staying with her tonight, my husband passes me the phone so I can hear the voice and immediately know I’m not hearing an adult but a teenager, she closes the phone, we call and call our not so dd, she finally picks up exclaims his parents are working late bla bla bla and my husband gets to talk to the boy and asks where do you live? Can I get an address? No he says I don’t give out my address to strangers! Dd finally comes clean, I’ve been caught in a lie, but I’m having a good time, I’m sorry. Dh is now making his 3 hour journey down to collect her from the city centre before making his way back home 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[FaithHopeLove]

Oh how maddening! I would be angry too. What happens now? Can you ground her?

[Overseas]

She’s shown no remorse, in fact she astonished that we’d actually driven all that way to collect her, thinks we’re over protective, after all ‘she was safe with a friend she trusts’
Would grounding her help? Teach her there’s consequences for her actions?  It’s fine line as we have to consider the consequences of our actions to which when in the past in situations that we've grounded her its lead to her to staying in her room becoming depressed, self harming and suicidal. Really don’t know...

[Overseas]

We’re thinking when we sit down with her today and discuss last nights events, that we’ll ask dd what she thinks would be an appropriate punishment? That could be interesting...

[FaithHopeLove]

Yes that will be interesting particularly since in her eyes she did nothing wrong. I wish I had a better answer for you.

[twocrazycats]

We’re thinking when we sit down with her today and discuss last nights events, that we’ll ask dd what she thinks would be an appropriate punishment? That could be interesting...

That can often be helpful with teenagers who do not have BPD. It never, ever worked with my bpd dd.

What did help with my dd was being firm but not doing it in anger. I took some tips from a book on dealing with "strong-willed teenagers". For example, in this case, telling her there would be a grounding of how ever long you decide, but shouldn't be too long, and then a trial to see if you can trust her. If she gives you a phone number to call a parent, and you call and talk to the parent, then, if you are satisfied with the conversation, she can visit the friend. The more you find you can trust her (if you do), the more privileges she gets.

I do think being firm like this with my daughter kept her out of a lot of trouble she could easily have gotten into while she was in high school.

Things went off the cliff with my daughter when she turned 18, because she felt that now she could set the rules. She also got involved with a boyfriend who felt the same way. So I've had to turn it around to what are my boundaries with regard to what is done in my house.

I guess my point is just that I found that what they recommend for "most" teenagers never worked with my bpd teen and I needed to find a different approach. 

2CC

[Overseas]

Thanks twocrazycats, and yes I agree with you, ‘normal’ parenting has not worked and we have yet to decide what action to take. What was interesting was observing her mood yesterday. She was not talking to either of us all day, spent it in her bedroom and was in a bad sullen mood but we tried to keep the lines of communication open with, told her that the hot water was on if she wanted a shower, what would you like in your lunch for college tomorrow etc. She did join the rest of the family for dinner, but hardly ate anything.  She was desperate for attention, almost goading me to hug her by stepping in my way and blocking me, it was obvious she was desperate for a cuddle. I hugged this stiff ironing board dd and placed her arms around me me until she eventually hugged me back. In my mind it was funny the bizarreness of this dance and her need of acceptance like a really young child when she thinks she’s so much more mature. Her mood lightened even more when her 11 year old ds asked her to play with her dolls house! and they played happily together for a good couple of hours. When it was time for bed her mood was even higher to the point where I was thinking how is this going to end?  after some consistent pressure she finally went to bed, my dh was also waiting for the bid argument and I’m left wondering are we at the point before she comes crashing down again? I see all the red flags... I’m just so tired from it all ...

[FaithHopeLove]

Do her moods often cycle like that? It sounds like the BPD roller coaster ride. The best advice I heard came from someone on this board. I am a little embarrassed that I don't remember who but it went something like this: Learn to get off the roller coaster. It isn't easy and it takes time but we can learn to let them go for the ride without getting onboard ourselves. Does that make sense? I have been able to do it to some extent with my son. His suicide attempts still terrify me but I pretty much take his daily (or hourly) mood swings in stride. What do you think? Can you or do you want to get off your daughter's roller coaster?

[Overseas]

Thanks faithlovehope, yes these days I watch and observe the rollercoaster ride! I’ve learnt from the past that if I get on I’ll end up being wiped out by her and I will end up placed in a straight jacket myself and matched directly into the adult ward! Lol
I do have anxiety mind you waiting to see if this is going to end with another suicide attempt. Dh just spoke with her psychiatrist about what’s going on at home with the pill collecting and he’s agreed to talk with her before her therapy session on Wednesday, we’re also questioning the outcome about how referral to the inpatient unit. Meanwhile while dd has declared she has a new boyfriend!

[FaithHopeLove]

I am glad you are able to stay off the roller coaster and keep your own center. How about other forms of self care? Of course posting here is good. Have you thought about face to face therapy as well? Lots of us, myself included, have found it helps with the inevitable stress and anxiety that goes with loving someone with BPD.

On another note, what do we know about this new boyfriend?

[Overseas]

Lol! we know nothing about the new boyfriend except he is 16 or so she says and he doesn’t attend mainstream school but is on a course like herself which of course is another !
I had a brilliant therapist up until recently, expensive mind you but her experience is with troubled teens so she could relate but I stopped seeing her so that my dd could see her and they’d be no conflict of interest. I do miss my sessions but we’d got to the point where we or shall I say I was only downloaded and reporting about dd’s antics. It definitely gave me breathing space and time to reflect on how I felt and what my boundaries with her would be but at least now I am confident that dd is seeing a therapist that is good and knows the whole story.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[FaithHopeLove]

I remember you telling me about your former therapist who now sees your daughter. I was just wondering if it might be possible for you to see someone (obviously not her) for yourself as well. Forgive me if I already asked this.

[Overseas]

Not at all faithlovehope it’s just the thought of seeing a new therapist and starting all from the beginning, all over again seems too exhausting for me right now.

[FaithHopeLove]

I get it. You have to go at your own pace.

[Overseas]

I’ve just now discovered a brand new phone hidden in her bedroom, never used and she certainly doesn’t have the money to buy one, so it sounds to me like she either handling stolen goods now or she stole it! I feel like we’re going into a rabbit hole.., dh just taken all the info from the phone to the police station to find out what he can about it. Dear God it’s never ending!

[Resiliant]

Hi Overseas,
You certainly have a lot to deal with right now.  Hang in there!  The good news is that you are trying your best and you can always look back and say you did your best.
I just want to say that I have the same experience as CrazyCats.   
I have found that the best consequences are natural consequences.  Say for example the natural consequence in this case is that there has been a loss of trust.   You have experienced a loss of trust of her, and also importantly you don't feel like you can trust her friends.  I also want to re-iterate what CrazyCats said to be firm and not with anger.  Let your daughter know that you really hope to be able to rebuild this trust.  It's important that she doesn't see this as the end of the world and there can be a positive ending, a light to work towards.  It's important that she feels that you still believe in her and that you believe she is a good person who just made some mistakes.
The most disastrous things that happened to me with my son in the past was when I was pressured by someone else (my husband who I otherwise love tremendously) to parent my son the way that you would parent a non-bpd.   I let my guard down, second-guessed myself, went along with it and everything backfired.  This happened on two occasions and my son is still not over it.   
I just wanted to share this because I feel it is SO important.   I'm so glad you are here and learning to be the best that you can be for your daughter.

[Overseas]

Thanks you your words they mean a lot and the message your conveying, I get that. Yes the trust is the most important thing, and boy do I hate the lies, it’s an insult to my intelligence! But it seems she just doesn’t care, she’s now trying to lie her way out saying she’s just minding it for a friend, the friend even can be heard in the background saying it’s her phone, when asked well  sure you must have the receipt then for an €800.00 new phone then, the friend said she’d thrown it away! Police can’t do much as the phone has not been reported stolen, of course because it most likely fell off the back of a lorry and doesn’t belong to anyone yet. And yes I do feel that I’ve done my best over and over, no abuse, no neglect with a very supportive family, thank god I have two other very able kids to prove that. It’s just at this stage it’s beyond any normal parenting and bpd parenting.

[Overseas]

Now she won’t come home! And I’m ready to change the locks!

[FaithHopeLove]

I know the feeling of wanting to change the locks. Hard to do with a minor though. There has to be some way of keeping some balance in your home. Resilient offers lots of wise advice about appropriate discipline for children with BPD. Who has the phone in question now? What will the natural consequences be if and when it is reported stolen?

[Overseas]

You’re a pure psycho taking my friends phone and threatening to go the gaurds with a PLEASE READing grinder as if they wouldn’t laugh at you. I PLEASE READing hate you and there’s not one person I know you doesn’t think ur mad. At my friends house at 7:30 talking to her and her cousin and I’m getting texts of you saying I have to be home in half an hour or else. Even the PLEASE READing gaurds wouldn’t be as dramatic as you. The amount of times you have searched my room is PLEASE READing shocking. Just as I was feeling like I could trust you again now I’ll have to stop writing and drawing as well cause I have no privacy. You push me further and further away. No PLEASE READing way I’m going into hospital or listening to a word you say. And don’t try calling any of my friends again cause once ur friends are getting calls of ur dad u loose them pretty quick. U make me hate u and then take away my friends leaving me on my own. Say ur doing it because u love me is PLEASE READing bullPLEASE READ cause u have to be thick to think what ur doing is beneficial to anyone in anyway. For my mental health I need to get out of that house as soon as possible. You make me suicidal. I hope ur PLEASE READing happy that I’m on the way home. I can’t guarantee I’ll be staying cause I think at this point I’d rather live on the street. You are either gonna cause the end of our relationship or the end of me.
This is the exact response from my daughter tonight when she was told she had to be home by 7pm

[FaithHopeLove]

That sounds familiar. She is in full BPD rage mode. It is so important that you stay centered and constant. We are all with you.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[PeaceMom]

Very familiar. I think my ubpd 19 DD has texted the exact same thing. I agree with Faith that being calm and centered and SLOW to speak is your best strategy. We start reeling off the threats when we feel out of control. Don’t let her pull you into the mud wrestle pit.
I wish I had more to offer, but am too depleted right now! But I’m cheering you on!
Peacemom

[Blueskyday]

Fgs! Is there a textbook ?

I got the exact sentiment the other day and mine is 30. The sad thing is I recognise all of this and 15 years after nothing has changed.


I have changed. My advice is get some help for you asap. It's too much to bear

[Overseas]

Thanks for the support guys I feel less alone! I gave her some time and space, obviously not enough as when I went up to her she had her music blaring and she was ripping up photos and old letters. Her window was open and I could smell cigarette smoke, I told her she needs to calm down, smoking is unacceptable and that I was putting on the house alarm, she told me  :F*** off I  put on the alarm she promptly opened the window and set off the house alarm.I took her loudspeaker when she refused to turn down the volume, she kicked me and tried to grab it from my hand. I took it downstairs stairs couldn’t figure out how to shut the thing off so dumped it in a bowl of water. I said to her right that’s it, you give me no other option I will call the police if you don’t turn the music down on your phone or if you open that window again, this is your choice now. She continues to rant, this isn’t a choice your threatening me etc etc. I picked up the house phone and went up to her one last time, in the meantime she is screaming at dh saying the police aren’t going to anything etc he is saying to her well the first thing I’ll be doing when they arrive is give them this stolen phone. Dh is saying to me the police aren’t going to do anything? What are you going to say? Personally I really didn’t want to call them as what can they do? I went up one last time I’m going to take the phone with me to bed if you set off the alarm or I hear your music I will follow through as you’ve left me no choice. My head is thumping and I’m just trying to breathe...

[twocrazycats]

I would just leave her alone until she settles down.

I've certainly heard similar rants from my dd. She used to say, "If you don't let me (whatever she wanted at the time), you've lost your daughter!" When she was younger, she'd say she was going to run away. When I'd ask her what she'd say when the police would find her, she'd say that she'd tell them I was abusing her.

One thing I've found with my daughter, and it sounds really counter intuitive, is that if she was out and came back and went into a rant like that, what worked best was to simply say, "I'm glad you're back safely. I love you." And then leave her alone. And wait until the next day to discuss anything. It meant she couldn't use my angry words against me. But I think also, maybe, at a certain point, part of her anger was because she was hurting, and even though she'd never admit it, somewhere deep down she felt bad and unworthy because of the way she was acting. At first it really caught her off guard. But even while biting my tongue and saying that I loved her, I never backed down on being firm.

I know how difficult this is. You can stay strong.

2CC

[FaithHopeLove]

What 2CC is saying makes a lot of sense to me. Parenting a child with BPD is very different from parenting a child who does not have BPD. In many ways they can't control the rants. Setting boundaries is not about controlling their behavior. It is about acting in ways that are consistent with your core values. Here is a great article that explains how this works. Setting Boundaries

[Overseas]

I read the article faithlovehope thank you, and totally agree with the right way to set boundaries. Unfortunately it’s not telling me what to do when dd totally disrespects those boundaries and is unwilling to comply. For example when we ask dd to be home by 7pm on a school night, ample time considering she finishes at 3pm, she comes home whatever time she likes. Impossible to ground her because she’ll have a full blown bpd rage and walk out of the door.

[FaithHopeLove]

What is the core value behind wanting your daughter to be home at 7 on a school night?

[Overseas]

Safety

[Resiliant]

Hi Overseas, I hope you're having a better day today.  Like the others, your daughter's text to you was painfully familiar to me as well. 
It make's me think that maybe now is time for you to use the SET method of communicating.   As Bluesky said there is no manual, but there are tools and tips that work.  And, like CrazyCats said some of them are counter-intuitive.   
Chat later