Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
July 10, 2020, 08:19:18 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Harri, Once Removed
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, I Am Redeemed, Mutt, Turkish
Ambassadors: formflier, GaGrl, Ozzie101, Swimmy55, zachira
  Help!   Groups   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Experts share their discoveries [video]
99
Could it be BPD
BPDFamily.com Production
Listening to shame
Brené Brown, PhD
What is BPD?
Blasé Aguirre, MD
What BPD recovery looks like
Documentary
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: How to get through Just Tolerating It  (Read 412 times)
Ray2017
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 88


« on: June 22, 2020, 02:53:42 PM »

It's been a year since the social worker at the psychiatric hospital my H was in told me to read SWoE, which lead me here shortly thereafter.  I deeply regret issuing the ultimatum that my H go for inpatient therapy - it did nothing to improve the situation, and in many ways, only exacerbated the problems I was hoping would be fixed.  But without his hospitalization, I would never have understood BPD traits and the tools I've learned here - and all the support so many of you have shown me.

My desire is to leave.  I feel free when he goes for his shifts - I have 24 hours twice a week to breathe and be myself.  I am more relaxed with the kids.   When he's home, I feel like those summer days with oppressive humidity - it's emotionally stifling, generally followed by a big emotional thunderstorm.  I radically accept that he will not, or cannot, change.  Of course, leaving is complicated.  I do have a good, stable job.  Child care will be an issue, especially with school being uncertain in the fall.  But the biggest challenge is my dad is at the very end stage of pancreatic cancer.  They gave him 3 months about 2 months ago; he had a stroke two nights ago, on top of everything else.  My parents are relying on my H a lot, and I know my mom will need his help.  I know him well enough to know that if I left, there is no way he would continue to help my mom.  So, I stay (for now).  

Is there a question in there?  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  I guess I find myself even more alone than I was a year ago.  My dad was my confidant about my H's rages.  I haven't bothered him with the nitty gritty details since his diagnosis; and I certainly won't even have that option in the very near future.  I am so, desperately sad about my dad, but as my H will always mirror (and increase) any emotions I feel, I grieve in private (my showers are getting longer each day).  I find myself feeling inner rage when my H dysregulates, especially over what I think are tiny things (no one is paying attention to him when my dad is dying of cancer.  SHOCKING isn't it?!?).  I remind myself he is allowed his feelings, listen with empathy, validate what I can, remove myself from the circular conversation, but in the middle of the night I feel intense anger inside.  I try breathing my way through it, but it always comes back.  How do I fake my way through this (hey - there's the question!)?  Is there a way to get through this without faking it?  I've learned not to share my inner feelings with him, or try and find any validation from him - it always backfires.  I remind myself self-care is probably what will help.  But doing my job, plus my mom's (we work at the same office, but she's at home with my dad, so I'm picking up the slack) on a part time schedule, was the only one helping the kids with school, doing all the errands for my parents, caring for their 5 horses, plus my normal housework of cooking, cleaning, etc...  The only alone time I have is when I wake up in the middle of the night crying or angry.  I don't feel like getting out of bed to garden at that point. Smiling (click to insert in post)  Does anyone have any suggestions?    
Logged
PLEASE DO NOT TELL MEMBERS TO STAY OR LEAVE!
This board is for evaluating the pros and cons of staying or leaving a relationship. Please focus on evaluating options.
All members should learn to use the basic relationship tools to better manage the day to day interactions
formflier
Ambassador
********
Online Online

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
What is your relationship status with them: Married
Posts: 16330



WWW
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2020, 03:05:06 PM »


Hey, I'm not familiar with your story..so will ask lots of questions.

I noticed the "gave him three months, 2 months ago" comment.  Can you expand on that?

Did the medical professionals advise you that was a reasonable time frame?

I wonder if the impending deadline is helping or hurting?

What do you think?

Best,

FF
Logged

Ray2017
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 88


« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2020, 03:12:20 PM »

Hi FF - I always appreciate your comments on other people's threads, which I read a lot (don't post often.  I don't like bothering people).  "What would FF or Cat say to do here?" is a common refrain in my head. Smiling (click to insert in post) 

I was referring to my father's cancer - in mid to late April his oncologist told him that he had about 3 months to live as the cancer was spreading aggressively (despite having 12 rounds of intense chemo).  Is it helpful to know approximately how much time he has left to live?  Probably not, but I guess it's given him the time and understanding to get things in order for my mom so she doesn't have to deal with it (house repairs and such).  If you thought I was referring to my H with that statement, my apologies.  It always sounds so clear in my head, but doesn't always end up that way when written out.
Logged
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 5197



« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2020, 07:05:54 PM »

So sorry that you are dealing with your father's final illness.  Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

And you have so much responsibility that you are shouldering and so little free time to think, grieve, be yourself.

Certainly you've come to clarification about who your husband is and how you feel about this relationship. His hospitalization last year made that very clear to you, so perhaps it's time to no longer regret your actions, but to realize that by insisting he go, you have saved yourself many years of wondering what was going on with him.

I can appreciate the anger you feel about your husband's self-centered behavior when your father is dying. I experienced that myself when my father was dying and my ex was making things all about himself instead of showing me normal human compassion for a daughter about to lose her father.

It sounds like you need to figure out some systems and put them in place in the coming months: how to help your mother with household repairs and daily chores, what is the plan for kids if school doesn't resume, and finally, what to do about your relationship.

I can see how all these issues can look overwhelming, but by separating each out and figuring out strategies (handy to have multiple ideas in case some of them don't work out optimally), this tangled mess will seem far less daunting.

I'm very much into making lists, and lists of lists. It's a way for me to make sense of the world and to figure out what I need to do first and what comes next. That said, often these plans go out the window and I don't follow my lists at all, but it's a good way to separate out issues and make strategic plans.

And I think it would be helpful to get some ideas down on paper or securely in the cloud, so they're not swirling around in your head. Perhaps that way you can spend more time with your feelings and do what you need to take care of yourself emotionally.

Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Ray2017
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 88


« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2020, 05:16:55 PM »

And I think it would be helpful to get some ideas down on paper or securely in the cloud, so they're not swirling around in your head. Perhaps that way you can spend more time with your feelings and do what you need to take care of yourself emotionally.

Thanks, Cat.  I do enjoy making lists.  I am trying to take one moment at a time and not think too far ahead (except in the middle of the night - all bets are off then).  Any suggestions on how to deal with my emotions once triggered?  I know I'm being triggered easier than I was before, probably because of the added emotions around my dad.  I haven't lashed out in anger yet... it's hard though.  Today H was raging about new procedures at the local pond he takes the kids to while I'm at work.  I stayed calm on the phone, and later when alone with the kids, chatted about how his reaction made them feel.  The fire started inside me though.  I'm breathing deliberately, but I'd like a way to tamp down this fire a bit better, otherwise I'm afraid it's going to come roaring out, and I know it will help absolutely nothing.
Logged
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 5197



« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2020, 05:33:05 PM »

How to deal with the anger? Are you getting enough cardiovascular exercise. I remember at one point I was so angry with my ex and I was moving a truckload of cobblestones along the edge of my driveway. The exertion felt really good when I connected my anger to the completion of the job--it was like I was supercharged. And a good way to channel that emotion.

Are you sleeping enough?
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Ray2017
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 88


« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2020, 05:57:54 PM »

I’m doing a lot of barn work (5 horses, stalls and paddocks to muck daily; heavy water buckets, hay, grain, shavings etc. to lug down to the barn- you definitely know how that is), which I would say qualifies as cardio, at times anyway. Sleep- depends. A lot of sleep isn’t in my control- Our 11 year old has insomnia and gets me up in regular intervals until 11ish and our 5 year old gets up at 5:15 daily. And I wake up at 3ish each morning either sad or angry. Most times I can get back to sleep before 5:15. I need more, but though we’re actively working with the 11 year olds sleep issues with her Dr. for the past year, I haven’t found a way to make the little guy sleep in longer. I have been trying to force myself to think of something other than my H when I’m angry with him (especially in the night), with a little success. But when the fire is roaring it’s a lot harder to put out.
Logged
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 5197



« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2020, 11:05:39 AM »

I’ll say you’re doing a lot of physical work! If it weren’t for the pandemic, I’d suggest you find a 4H or FFA student to help with chores—maybe something you can do next year, presuming things begin to return to normalcy.

The sleep issue is problematic. Have you asked her doctor about melatonin? Not sure it would be appropriate for a child, but I know people who use it occasionally and are happy with the results. There also are herbal formulas for sleep issues. A good one is made by Life Extension and there is no lingering drowsiness the following morning.

But what to do about the anger?

I was angry with my ex for years after I divorced him. I had stuffed down that anger while I was still married, but it didn’t go away. Therapy helped. Writing about it helped. It seems that anger needs an outlet.

When I first came here and started connecting the dots about BPD, I vented a lot. Really a lot. Most of it was about my ex, though some was about my current husband, who also has BPD traits.

Over time, the anger went away and nowadays it’s not an emotion that I feel much at all.

Keeping you up at night, demanding to be heard, I think there are issues that you need to express. And I invite you to do so here.
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Ray2017
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 88


« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2020, 08:32:01 AM »

With our 11 year old, her Dr. did have her start taking melatonin before bed (a hefty dose, too) starting last year.  Also no screen time before bed, I read to her for at least a half hour, leave her with the Calm app (with an age-appropriate guided meditation for sleeping).  I also make sure she gets lots of exercise (barn chores - ha! and swimming now that it's warm) and sunlight throughout the day.  I'm at a loss of what else we should do. 


I was angry with my ex for years after I divorced him. I had stuffed down that anger while I was still married, but it didn’t go away. Therapy helped. Writing about it helped. It seems that anger needs an outlet.

Keeping you up at night, demanding to be heard, I think there are issues that you need to express. And I invite you to do so here.

When I read this, a little bell went off in my head.  I definitely think you're on to something here.  As much as I try to self-validate that what I observe my H doing is not normal, he doesn't get to speak for how I feel, etc., I literally haven't had anyone to talk to about this stuff in months now.  I had a therapist, but with COVID, things switched over to telehealth.  Work is too crazy for me to take any time during the work day to schedule an appointment, and I don't trust that I would be able to have a private conversation at home (last year I found out my H was hacking into my emails and texts; I have some funky things that happen with my phone every so often that make me worried that it's bugged, so even though I feel vaguely confident with changed passwords, etc. that I have privacy, I conduct any business on my phone as if he were able to see or hear what I'm saying).  To be honest, and I don't mean this in a bad way at all, I am hesitant to vent too much here.  I read pretty much all the threads on the Conflicted and Parenting/Divorce boards to learn as much as I can and to take advice, though directed to other people, that applies to my situation as well.  However, I do notice a lot when people vent about their partners, it generally comes back to 'These tools are for you.  Stop focusing on him/her' - which I totally agree with!  But I don't want to fall into the trap of doing all the venting and leaving the impression that I'm not focusing on my own behavior and trying to improve myself.  But I do think having an outlet would be helpful.  I've had a lot of friends texting support knowing about my dad's cancer battle, and how draining emotionally it can be (which it is), and it's everything not to word vomit and tell them all about the dysregulating or raging H I have on top of a dying parent.  I know that won't be helpful in the long run, so I stuff it down again and just appreciate I have friends supporting me through one of the tough things.

I appreciate you hanging in here with me, Cat.  It means a lot.
Logged
misterblister
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 53


« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2020, 12:31:32 PM »

I will ramble here but maybe you can find some nuggets in it.

I have been just tolerating it for the kids' sake for 12 years at least. I didn't realize the toll it took on me or my children until the last couple of years. I will always regret that.

My uBPDw is "high functioning" so I must have it easy compared to many here, but about a year ago I simply gave up trying at all with her. We are now cold-shoulder roommates, and she seems less disturbed by this situation than she was by me trying to get closer all those years. We are basically live-in divorcees.

I am practicing radical acceptance that she will not change and that I can't fix it. This truce-like situation has only been possible working with a good therapist, although I recognize the situation remains unhealthy and stifling. I often do have to fake it; I do have to walk on eggshells; I do have to stop myself from sincerely talking to her and expecting a healthy response.

I have hobbies that allow me to completely escape, both mentally and physically. It took years of practicing mindfulness to pull that off, but it works now. Hard farm/garden work like you do is definitely therapeutic physically but mentally too if you can close your mind off from the troubles and simply focus on the immediate task. In one case I took up a cheap hobby completely as an exercise in mindfulness and ended up loving it.

Like you, I also have care-giving responsibilities for terminally ill family with an uncertain timeline. The fact is, I don't have the strength right now to add divorce to my plate even though my wife basically invited me to do so by quitting marital therapy. This is part of my radical acceptance of submitting but not resigning to this season in my life. A stronger, wealthier person might be able to pull it off, but not me, not right now anyway.

I often feel like a caged animal who feels lonely, cheated, and depressed, but my mature higher self allows me to feel that way without collapsing within myself. That mindfulness without judgement, combined with radical acceptance of this seasonal situation, has enabled me to endure the storms while keeping my humanity. I doubt I could have pulled this off without a good therapist as my navigator. Your friend support network is vital.

All that being said, you must cling to hope for the reality of a better future. It's fatal to lose that. I do sometimes lose sight of just how happy and free I will feel when I am finally finished with this marriage and can breathe again with my new-found maturity and self-awareness. Part of this, again, is recognizing but not despairing of my role in letting it become this bad and in choosing a broken partner in the first place. I then recognize how much more emotional energy and love I will have for my children, and how they be glad to see such a truly happier and stronger father.
Logged
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 5197



« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2020, 06:40:46 PM »

It sounds like you're doing all the right things to get your daughter to sleep. Perhaps it's not a physical issue, but more of an emotional one? Maybe she's picking up on the chaos with your husband?


To be honest, and I don't mean this in a bad way at all, I am hesitant to vent too much here.  I read pretty much all the threads on the Conflicted and Parenting/Divorce boards to learn as much as I can and to take advice, though directed to other people, that applies to my situation as well.  However, I do notice a lot when people vent about their partners, it generally comes back to 'These tools are for you.  Stop focusing on him/her' - which I totally agree with! 

Yes, it's true that's often said when people are stuck and still hold onto an expectation that their partner might change. Often when these interactions are dissected, we can suggest approaches that may differ from the usual pattern and though they probably won't change the dynamic much, it is possible to greatly relieve the pressure and emotional impact upon the non. So sometimes details matter and can give us an opportunity to look at new approaches.

Those of us who've been here a while have been through the wringer with these patterns and we understand how difficult it is to live like that.
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
PLEASE DO NOT TELL MEMBERS TO STAY OR LEAVE!
This board is for evaluating the pros and cons of staying or leaving a relationship. Please focus on evaluating options.
All members should learn to use the basic relationship tools to better manage the day to day interactions
Helpfuldad13

Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
What is your relationship status with them: Married
Posts: 3


« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2020, 04:23:26 PM »

We got the same story. I posted on the wrong board. I hope u can read what I wrote. I’m gonna try to send you the link. I don’t remember the name of the section I posted in (something about trying to make it work), it’s the one above this one. Sorry I’m having trouble navigating this site. I haven t used a message board in a while. Desperate times. Anyway, we got the same story, timeline, and way of thinking. Hit me up!
I will ramble here but maybe you can find some nuggets in it.

I have been just tolerating it for the kids' sake for 12 years at least. I didn't realize the toll it took on me or my children until the last couple of years. I will always regret that.

My uBPDw is "high functioning" so I must have it easy compared to many here, but about a year ago I simply gave up trying at all with her. We are now cold-shoulder roommates, and she seems less disturbed by this situation than she was by me trying to get closer all those years. We are basically live-in divorcees.

I am practicing radical acceptance that she will not change and that I can't fix it. This truce-like situation has only been possible working with a good therapist, although I recognize the situation remains unhealthy and stifling. I often do have to fake it; I do have to walk on eggshells; I do have to stop myself from sincerely talking to her and expecting a healthy response.

I have hobbies that allow me to completely escape, both mentally and physically. It took years of practicing mindfulness to pull that off, but it works now. Hard farm/garden work like you do is definitely therapeutic physically but mentally too if you can close your mind off from the troubles and simply focus on the immediate task. In one case I took up a cheap hobby completely as an exercise in mindfulness and ended up loving it.

Like you, I also have care-giving responsibilities for terminally ill family with an uncertain timeline. The fact is, I don't have the strength right now to add divorce to my plate even though my wife basically invited me to do so by quitting marital therapy. This is part of my radical acceptance of submitting but not resigning to this season in my life. A stronger, wealthier person might be able to pull it off, but not me, not right now anyway.

I often feel like a caged animal who feels lonely, cheated, and depressed, but my mature higher self allows me to feel that way without collapsing within myself. That mindfulness without judgement, combined with radical acceptance of this seasonal situation, has enabled me to endure the storms while keeping my humanity. I doubt I could have pulled this off without a good therapist as my navigator. Your friend support network is vital.

All that being said, you must cling to hope for the reality of a better future. It's fatal to lose that. I do sometimes lose sight of just how happy and free I will feel when I am finally finished with this marriage and can breathe again with my new-found maturity and self-awareness. Part of this, again, is recognizing but not despairing of my role in letting it become this bad and in choosing a broken partner in the first place. I then recognize how much more emotional energy and love I will have for my children, and how they be glad to see such a truly happier and stronger father.
Logged
Ray2017
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 88


« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2020, 01:54:55 PM »

If I may vent/ask for advice on response.  My H has had increasing dysregulations each day.  This is a continuing pattern: small dysregulations will lead to larger ones, leading to a rage incident; then back to "normal", and then we slowly build again. 

So, we're currently at mid-build.  Our 11 year old accidentally breaks his earphones.  He is texting me how he's fed up that she doesn't care about his stuff and he's pissed off, he's not going to do what she wants this afternoon, etc.  Okay, I get something of yours is broken, and even if it's accidental, perhaps there should be some sort of follow-up so she will remember in the future to be more careful (she's not the type of kid who is reckless; I'm sure she's scurrying around the house trying to make amends; seeing her co-dependent behavior in the making, most certainly learned from me, breaks my heart).  Now he's starting in on rage texting because my dad is asking him to take my mom to a place that sells generators to see if she can lift/move the model he's interested.  My dad is dying of cancer and doesn't have much time left.  He's desperately trying to make sure he's thought of everything so my mom is set up, and is so anxious/agitated.  My H has assured him my mom (no weakling) is capable of handling this equipment.  My dad wants to know FOR SURE.  So now H is raging that he has to be at everyone's beck and call and do what THEY want, and put his own interests aside.  This is the same person who earlier today was saying he was trying to find something to keep busy with today.  I feel my anger building, but also want to cry over the whole thing.  At this point, my dad could ask me to do literally anything, and if it gave him some peace or reassurance, I would do it.  When he passes I want to have as few regrets as I possibly can.  I know my H is his own person and he can do/feel whatever he wants.  But I don't want my parents to feel the effects of his rage.  How do I respond, using SET, BIFF, whatever that impresses that?  Or do I just leave it?  I tried to validate by saying I could tell he was frustrated, and I offered to take my mom instead (not to help him, but to make sure my mom had a pleasant experience.  I don't know the first thing about generators).  Anything else?  Something different?  It's stuff like this where I don't know what to do, besides not JADE.  Other thought - Cat: any chance you'd want to visit a coastal New England town as I bet you know about generators, trucks, trailering, etc.? Smiling (click to insert in post) 
Logged
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 5197



« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2020, 03:32:42 PM »

Victimhood 101–poor guy he’s having an awful day—his earphones are broken and now he has to do something nice for someone. So sad! Life sucks. Wah wah.   Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

Why even respond to any of his whining and self pity? Don’t validate the invalid is a phrase we use around here.

Of course you want to do everything in your power to support your dad. You’re a good daughter and you love him.  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

I just bought a new generator because we in California have planned outages during the fire season. We’ve got solar and batteries, and a little generator, but we needed a big one for the well pump.

Figure out what you want to power—make a list. That will tell you what size generator you need. There are tables online that list wattages for various appliances. Add up all the usages that will be running at one time, then add another 50% or so, and that will tell you what size generator you need.

Small ones (3000 watts) are very portable but won’t power a lot. Bigger ones (10,000 watts and above) will power much of a whole house’s requirements. Most generators include a kit to install wheels, with the exception of very large whole house generators that are permanently installed in place.

Another question is whether you want to run the generator on gas or propane or both.

You can call local hardware stores and find out what brands they carry, once you know what size generator you need. And then Google each brand. Hardware stores in my area typically only carry a couple of brands, so it’s not a lot of research.

Your dad might already know exactly what type of generator he’s thinking your mother might need.

I bought a 10,000 watt gas generator and had it delivered. The guy from the hardware store brought it all the way over to our well. My husband and I took it out of the cardboard packaging, put the wheels and handle on it, and though it weighs over 200 pounds, it rolls quite easily even on bumpy grass. We were able to roll it into a little enclosed house we had built for it next to the pump house. If only we’d thought about it, we would have built it a little taller, so it would be easier to check the oil and pour in the gas, but it works fine—and we just tested it this morning.

That said, if you’re going to hook it up to the existing electrical system, instead of running extension cords, you’ll want a professional electrician to install a switch so you don’t send power into the grid, or potentially create a hazard at the home.

Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Ray2017
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 88


« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2020, 06:16:18 PM »

Come for moral support, and get great electrical advice. I love it!  Smiling (click to insert in post)  Thanks, Cat. My dad knows which one he wants my mom to get, he’s afraid she won’t be able to roll it. That being said it’s, I appreciate the research guide because my dad is a bigger is better sort of guy and he may be looking at one that is way too big. We do have a neighbor who is an electrician, so he’s going to wire it once it’s here.

Back to BPD land, don’t validate the invalid is a place where I get lost. I’m also afraid if I didn’t validate the whining because victimhood is his baseline- we may never communicate if I ignore all that stuff.   Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  Any basic guidelines on how to determine what’s valid versus not (outside of verbal abuse and the like)?
Logged
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 5197



« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2020, 08:13:20 PM »

Here is a great video on validation

And a book that deals with validation I Don’t Have to Make Everything All Better

Encourage the behavior you want; don’t reinforce the behavior you don’t want.

You can certainly let him know that you understand he’s upset, but all you need to do is a simple acknowledgment. Letting him dwell upon it isn’t productive for either of you.

I can understand that you’d want to spare your mom from having to be around him, but you don’t have to solve his problems for him.

Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Ray2017
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 88


« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2020, 06:34:16 AM »

Thanks, Cat.  I'll start reading that book, and I'm watching the video in bits and pieces (hard when kids keep interrupting, and I have a very limited amount of time when my H isn't home).  I am sure these will help.  Part of my problem is that my feeling is 99% of what he says is seeped in such untruth or downright lies; I understand I'm supposed to listen empathetically, then validate the emotion behind it.  I'm so tired of hearing the same complaints over and over and over again for decades that I just have a variety of sayings I've stored up in my brain and use them.  It's not coming from a genuine place.  He can probably tell that (bangs head on desk).  You've pointed out I'm using these statements when I probably shouldn't be saying much of anything.  Still so much to learn, and I'm thankful for these resources.

The dysregulations built up and we had the rage yesterday.  Now we're in the self loathing, I should leave or kill myself phase (basically, back to victim mode, but just a different tone to it).  I have no idea how to respond.  I would love it if he would decide to leave, honestly, and I'm not going to lie and say "oh, please don't go!" which is what I honestly think he's reaching for.  I don't doubt that he is truly in a phase of self-loathing, which I understand is classic BPD.  But it also feels super manipulative to me.  I'm pretty sure he wants me to say certain things, which I just won't (like, it's fine that you just raged so our entire family, including the dogs, fled to other portions of the house.  No big deal!).  Any suggestions on how to respond when he kind of sort of apologizes, but also feels like he's fishing for reassurance?  Currently, if he apologizes, I say 'thank you' and leave at that, but he keeps it up and after a while the thank yous seem stilted and ridiculous. 
Logged
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 5197



« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2020, 10:28:16 AM »

I think the important thing is to be honest and not placate. That's where SET is a good tool in times when there's not an emotional crisis ready to erupt. Support-Empathy-Truth

S.E.T.- Jerold J. Kreisman, MD published SET (support, empathy, truth) in I Hate You, Don't Leave Me in 1991. 
 
When first learning S.E.T., it can seem that you are being asked to agree with the person with BPD (pwBPD). It is important to clarify that validating feelings does not mean that you agree with them, only that you recognize that the pwBPD is feeling them. It does not mean that you are letting the pwBPD off the hook, instead you are focusing on honest communication and ensuring that you are being heard, not just reacting to and defending against what is being said.
 
• S= Support refers to an initial statement which indicates the loved one supports the person with borderline personality disorder. It is a statement that begins with "I" and demonstrates concern and a desire to help. The support statement is meant to reassure the BP that the relationship is a safe one, and that her needs matter even during this difficult moment.
 
• E= Empathy refers to communicating that the loved one understands what the pwBPD is feeling, and focuses on "you." It is not a conveyance of pity or sympathy, but instead a true awareness and validation of the feelings of the pwBPD: "I see you are angry, and I understand how you can get mad at me," "How frustrating this must be for you."  It is important not to tell the pwBPD how she is feeling, but instead put her demonstrated feelings into words. The goal is to convey a clear understanding of the uncomfortable feelings she is having and that they are OK.
 
• T= Truth refers to a realistic and honest assessment of the situation and the pwBPDs role in solving the problem. It is an objective statement that focuses on the "it" -- not on the subjective experience of the pwBPD or Non-BPD. Often the pwBPD may seem to be asking, or demanding, something impossible, not taking an active role or responsibility in resolving the issue, or even presenting you with a "no-win" situation. The truth statement is meant to clearly and honestly respond to the difficult demand or behavior of the pwBPD, while placing responsibility appropriately: "This is what I can do…," "This is what will happen…,"


I'm not very good with SET and I should practice it more often. How I could see you using it with him would be something like this:

"I understand that you've got a lot on your mind that is troubling, and now is certainly a difficult time."

"It makes sense that you might feel overwhelmed and being asked to do additional things could feel like a burden."

"We're all in this together and I have times when I feel overwhelmed too and really need your support."




Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Ray2017
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 88


« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2020, 07:07:19 AM »

Thanks for the reminder on SET.  I do try and use it, though it generally falls apart on the 'T' because my H will say that my "truth" is insulting and I no longer hear or understand what he's saying.  When he gets to that point, I just stop talking, and listen if I'm able, or excuse myself and then get followed around (thank goodness for bathrooms with locks). 

The weekend was not fun.  He would not stop ranting about how everyone has let him down, everyone is ignoring him, he has no friends, I'm not listening to him (I spent way too long; I think he knows this statement pushes my buttons and I'm eager to disprove it).  I feel like I sort of threw some of the tools away, particularly JADE.  He was saying how I had tons of friends growing up and he had no one; no one has ever loyally had his side in his entire life.  I didn't keep my mouth shut.  I told him point blank to stop re-writing my history - I had my horses and no friends until my late teens (I was homeschooled).  I was content with this, and it didn't and doesn't bother me, but I will not let him tell me something about my life that isn't true.  I named his friends from his side of our wedding party (he had more than I did), I also reminded him that I have loyally been by his side for more than 17 years, and I will not let him erase that.  The rest of the day was filled with his suicidal ideations, which I ignored (I was watching to make sure he didn't take any actions). 

His sister is starting her visit here today; last year the two of them got in such battles his homicidal ideations started up again...  I'm hoping for the best yet preparing for the worst.  Last year I had a therapist where I could report the HI (though that backfired).  I guess if it starts again, I'll just monitor the situation, and if he makes any attempts to leave while spouting those ideations, then I'll call the police.  Again, I don't necessarily anticipate this will happen; just trying to have a plan in place if it does. 
Logged
Cat Familiar
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 5197



« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2020, 04:49:05 PM »

Perhaps try doubling up on the Support and Empathy statements. I find with my husband that if I proceed too quickly into Truth that it doesn’t work very well.

How did he respond when you refuted his untrue statements about your younger life?

The “you’re not listening to me” statement is a way to loop you back into his emotional chaos.

What if you tried something like, “Yes, you’re right. I understand that you’re unhappy and feel unsupported by other people. And now I’m done listening and need to do XYand Z.”

“If you want to talk about something else later in the day, I’ll be available.”

Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Ray2017
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 88


« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2020, 06:37:56 AM »



How did he respond when you refuted his untrue statements about your younger life?


He said he should have killed himself when he had a chance.  He has told me in the last few years he had a plan when he was a teenager; I knew him then and had no idea about any of this.  The SI then just ramped up, with a lot of crying.  He did ask if we were going to 'make it'.  I was over this conversation, and for the first time, I said I don't know, but I was going to try my best with my part of the relationship and ended the conversation.

Thanks for the idea about SET.  I'll make it look more like SSEE(t). Smiling (click to insert in post) 
Logged
PLEASE DO NOT TELL MEMBERS TO STAY OR LEAVE!
This board is for evaluating the pros and cons of staying or leaving a relationship. Please focus on evaluating options.
All members should learn to use the basic relationship tools to better manage the day to day interactions
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2020 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
40days_in_desert
Ahquei3s
alphabeta
ArtistGuy70
AskingWhy
At Bay
Avanzando
Beneck
bigredneck
Bittlecat
Boll Weevil
calmboom
Cat Familiar
Chosen
Dnmtnbkr
drained1996
Eggshellsbroken
FaithHopeLove
Forgiveness
GaGrl
ggGreg
Gift to Myself
gotbushels
Harri
Imatter33
Jazzy48
jdc
jones54
Katrinalove
LLgreen
Longterm
loyalwife
lucidone
Manifest32f
MariannaR
Methuen
mgirl
Minttea
Mommydoc
Mutt
narcdaughter2
NorseWoman
Notgoneyet
oceanheart
oftentimes
Omega1
Only Human
PeacefulMom
pest947
podsnapG
ProudDad12
pursuingJoy
Radcliff
Raul
Recycle
Resiliant
Rev
Rosheger
SamwizeGamgee
Sandalwood
SCM
SerendipityChild
SES
Skip
StillStuck
Swimmy55
Teno
truthbeknown
Ventak
vinnie77
wavewatcher
wendydarling
whirlpoollife
Wicker Man
WindofChange
worn_out
WTL
zaqsert

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!