Oh boy, Adult son getting into deep trouble

[Lollypop]

Hi there

It’s been a long while since I’ve needed a kind shoulder and some solid advice. Not even sure if there are any old timers still on here but I’m sure there’ll be support because this place And all you people are wonderful.

The background to this latest drama is needed.

Adult son 29 is now living independently and working. He lives “alternatively” in a mobile home on a farm. He’s been in an “on and off” relationship for about 18 months with a woman who is 54. She lives in a cabin on her own land with her daughter 15.

They got a bit more serious last summer and had a more regular arrangement. Son started calling her girlfriend. Son has always said how crazy and dysfunctional GF is. He thinks he can help her. He rarely talked about daughter other than she’d been expelled and didn’t attend school. I could tell he felt sorry for her because she was misunderstood and didn’t fit into school.

In lockdown we noticed son was “supporting” his GF’s teenage daughter. Mother and daughter have been having some relationship issues. He helped daughter get contact with her step-sister as an example. Daughter didn’t like son very much but he started to help her learn to cook spending time together. Alarm bells started ringing in my head.

Anyway, about 6-7 weeks ago he finishes with GF. It took a few weeks for her calls to stop etc. I sighed with relief. I noticed a distinct change in son. He seemed relaxed and very happy.

Then, a surprise to us, he contacts ex-GF and asks if he can still see her daughter. I’ve no idea what was said or how this was agreed upon. He’s spent two consecutive Sunday afternoons with her. Alarm bells again. I thought “this situation will peter out”. Then I saw a photo of daughter posted on social media and I could tell it was taken at his place (outside) but obviously if she was visiting she’d naturally go into his accommodation. I’m horrified at his idiocy. A 29 year old man entertaining a girl of 15 is impossible to explain to anybody. Even if totally innocent, a mature person wouldn’t put themselves at risk of any doubt.

Meanwhile, son tells me he’s successfully treated himself. He’s taken a programme of acid during lockdown and had a spiritual happening. He thinks he’s found the answers to every question and talks like he’s the messiah or something. The three of us (husband, me and son19) all feel uneasy at this new arrogant spouting of “I know the Way”.  We’ve agreed that our reply will be “I don’t tell you how to live your life, so don’t you tell me how to live mine”.

We can feel the escalating drama. We’ve discussed it. We feel prepared to stand aside and let him feel the consequences. We worry a little when he eventually faces reality.

Tonight, I received a bombshell text from son.

He says daughter is a big part of his life and he’s like us to meet her. He says he understands that we may be reluctant for all sorts of reasons but he’d greatly appreciate it, she’s a great person.

I’ve replied to say let’s talk about this next time we see you. We thought it was a good stalling while we work out what we need to say to him.

Trying very hard to stay in the present but finding it incredibly difficult. This could be an absolute nightmare. It already is.

I’m feeling terribly sorry for ex-GF, she should have said No but maybe she was scared of daughter kicking off. I’m angry at son getting himself between them. I’m bewildered that he thinks that this situation can develop to include us welcoming her into our lives. What is his relationship with her? Even if he thinks he’s “step-dad” it’s completely inappropriate and we all know what will happen next if not already.  He’s doing serious drugs too. This girl is at risk. I can easily see her moving in after an argument with her mother.

My thoughts are that we do a DEARMAN and keep things short. No, we don’t want to meet daughter. I feel that if I ask a direct question “what’s your relationship?” It’ll open up dialogue. He talks a load of xxit.  We know there’s no way to reason with somebody who is taking mind altering drugs.

We found a way to have a relationship with son. One where he lives his life while we live ours. He seeks emotional support from us occasionally. This request is too far and totally against our own moral code.

I’m ashamed at his behaviour.

LP

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Lollypop]

Ok.

So nobody here can relate to my crazy life.

I’ll just use this as a kind of diary while I ride this latest development.

I’ve received a message from son29. Actually, more of an essay.

So after supreme efforts to improve my relationship with him for over 6 years; always, in the hope he’d have this as a wall to give him some stability And to be able to live independently - he now turns to me as the sole reason for all his problems.

Everything is my fault.
His poor relationships with his family, particularly dad and brother are my fault.
I’m the one who is mentally ill.
I’m the manipulator.
He loves me unconditionally.
He forgives me.
I must be open to his “all seeing power”

He goes into fine detail, with skewed thinking. He twists and turns. Some of it is truthful but most isn’t. It’s painful reading, there is not one nice thing to say about me. No recognition of anything that’s ever been done for him. Believe me I’ve bent over backwards. Even to the extent of me being here learning new interaction skills for a number of years. I wouldn’t have done it any differently because for a while there I had my family together, I used my new skills to strengthen all my relationships. I lean on these now in what is far dark shift in our lives. My work here has prepared me emotionally. I’m not a wreck. I just feel a bit numb and sad. My “family” is coming undone.

So it looks as if I’m blacked but in a calm, superior and calculated manner. He’s pushing my buttons to “help” me.

This way of thinking is HIS truth. I cannot change how he sees it. He takes drugs, I cannot change this.

I’m in a lose lose situation. Both husband and son19 are now angry and deeply resentful of son29. Of course, it’ll be my fault in son29’s eyes. He will see that I continue to turn them against him.

Son29’s behaviour over Covid has been erratic. He’s narcissistic and his “forgiveness” will turn to full on perpetrator. I know I should stay in the present bit my biggest fear has moved up a level from fear of him committing to suicide to one of my own safety. There’s no suggestion he’d do me any physical harm but my fear of it has risen up.

I, of course, wish to run. I want to close down all interaction with him. I want us safe from him and his harm. His escalating behaviours harm all of us. I’m sick and tired of it.

What should I do?  Follow my gut?

Continue to explore a relationship? That doesn’t seem a healthy option right now.

Cut of ties temporarily? In a formal way? Perhaps.

I haven’t replied to his message. I’m going with my gut.

I certainly don’t want to see him. Stepping aside from that drama triangle is a hard thing to do...when son29 tries to drag me into it with his direct and very confrontational off-loading.

LP

[Sancho]

Hi LP. I really feel for you in this situation. You have worked so hard - and made some progress - now it all seems to be falling apart. Yes I know what it's like to see the train wreck coming, and your son's letter seems to be the start. We all have different situations, and while we all have opinions, often we just need the confidence to follow our own gut reaction. He wants to bring the young girl to your house, and really this puts you in an impossible position. And when you don't immediately agree to the request you are the one to blame for everything. Personally I think drawing the line is the only option. It may help him come to his senses about the appropriateness of all this. Sending lots of thoughts your way in this awful situation.

[Lollypop]

Hi Sancho

Thanks for replying. I re-read the text essay and I only read the stingy bits. He does acknowledge and thank me - I’m not even sure why I needed that validation but there we go. I’m only human.

LP

[Lollypop]

It is very clear son29 is in an escalating manic episode.

I’m now blacked.
Husband is now a saint.

I haven’t replied to his text essay. I understand that everything I say will be turned against at me.

Can somebody here give me feedback on this draft response?

“I’m sorry for your pain. I can see that you’re thinking about your formative years and looking for answers. I feel that I can’t say anything to you without it being used again at me as you’ve made it clear that you blame me for a lot of things. What I want to say is that I love you very much and am so very glad we’ve got closer since you came home at 24. I felt we’d created a much healthier relationship and I’m happy that you've opened up to me to tell me how you are feeling. I love you. Mum x“

Thoughts?

LP

[wendydarling]

Hi LP

It's good to hear from you, buddy!  

Ugh, my alarm bells would be ringing too... sounds to me the text essay is a reaction to you saying 'lets speak about this next time we see you'? Rather than arms wide open, yes we'd love to meet her. Do you think he has an inkling he's in dangerous waters, spending time with a 15 year old?

Son29’s behaviour over Covid has been erratic. He’s narcissistic and his “forgiveness” will turn to full on perpetrator. I know I should stay in the present bit my biggest fear has moved up a level from fear of him committing to suicide to one of my own safety. There’s no suggestion he’d do me any physical harm but my fear of it has risen up.

LP, things sound as though they've really changed, he's upped the ante and he's focused on you.  I'm glad you're here for support to centre yourself while you work this through. This is the first time I've heard you say he's narcistic and can turn full on perpetrator, but man acid, mind altering drugs anything can happen.

Have you acknowledged the text?

WDx

[wendydarling]

We posted at the same time  , I'm just reading yours.

[Lollypop]

I think I need to say sorry for any pain I’ve caused you.

[Lollypop]

Oh WD, wonderful to see you’re here,

I haven’t acknowledged the text.

Son19 took it upon himself to call son29 tonight. Son19 said it was a bizarre conversation with son29 switching from accusatory, to victim, to perpetrator in an instant. Son19 sees there’s no reasoning with him. Also, son29 claiming powers, and that we all need to hear his truth so we can grow; he’s helping us. He claims he’s made an ex-gf in the USA fall back in love with him. Son19 says my husband should also expect a text essay from son29.

About a month ago, Son29 told me that he’s been leaving audio messages for two years on this ex-gf’s phone. Unsolicited contact without any response from her. Two whole years! He leaves a kind of diary.  He says that she’s been talking to all her family and friends as he can tell they think he’s crazy. His reasoning is that they become “suggested friends” on his page which (apparently to him) means they’ve been viewing his profile. He’s convinced that he’s being stalked by them.

This is just one example of his behaviours since lockdown started and his programme began, I only found out last week when he told me a bit about what he’s been doing to treat himself,

LP

[wendydarling]

son29 is in an escalating manic episode

important observation and acknowledgement. Anything could have prompted this, he comes to you for support.

“I’m sorry for your pain. I can see that you’re thinking about your formative years and looking for answers. I feel that I can’t say anything to you without it being used again at me as you’ve made it clear that you blame me for a lot of things. What I want to say is that I love you very much and am so very glad we’ve got closer since you came home at 24. I felt we’d created a much healthier relationship and I’m happy that you've opened up to me to tell me how you are feeling. I love you. Mum x“

is good.

I think I need to say sorry for any pain I’ve caused you.

I'd leave this out, you may be opening a door he'll keep knocking down, his pain is because of you. He is in pain and does not know how to manage it.

Does that make sense to you?

WDx

[wendydarling]

LP 

I'm so very sorry, DS sounds in a bad way from what you describe, delusional. It's complicated isn't it. I'm wondering if he's experiencing psychosis. As you know 'reasoning' in these situations does not work. I think your draft reply is good and may help deescalate and validate, give you some breathing space to collect yourself and make sense of what's happening right now.

Give yourself space. What's the plan?

WDx

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Lollypop]

Hi WD

Thank you. I see your point about saying sorry. He’s accused me of not accepting responsibility for my actions and and says the only thing I’ve done is “forgive him” and, whilst he appreciates it, it’s not what he wants to hear.  He’s got this totally wrong as part of me working through here on the forum was to accept my role. I made sure he knew this at the time, openly and honestly.

I’ll let you know how I get on. I think I’ll send it tomorrow sometime. He’ll be triggered after son19 and, by the sounds of it,  Is working on a new text essay to husband. Husband disagrees with me replying, he thinks I should not reply at all.

LP

[wendydarling]

Hi LP

One thing I have learnt from my DD (through her ongoing treatment), for her it is not one person (you, me, friend, teacher...), or one experience that causes pain, it's an accumulation of being a sensitive person in our world, PTS. I acknowledge this is not the case for everyone. My point is it the case for many, and parents here like us who care and are doing our best, learning how to work through.

Healthy triangle LP  Regroup. Take your time.

WDx

[mggt]

Dear Lp,  This sounds very complicated. As I’m sure it has been for years. This damn disease. I don’t have any sound advice. 

I Just wanted to let you know I’ve also been on these boards for years. You’ve helped many people on here with your wise advice and genuine concern.  Sending hugs. Mggt

[Lollypop]

Thank you Mggt

Having a place for support was a lifeline for me for a very long time. It’s good to know we’re not alone as we face a long journey finding ways to cope.

WD

I sent a text. I abandoned my short draft one because I re-read his a number of times and thought it through. I’d rather not put my reply up here as it’s rather long but I’m happy to share so pm me.

I hope I’ve managed to set a boundary (so he learns; he’s mentioned he couldn’t set one with me) by demonstration.  He has no right to an opinion on my life before he was born. He has no right to an opinion of our marriage. He had a lot to say about both.

I talked a lot about my “therapy” which is basically my time here on the forum. I repeated the basic fundamentals of my learning and my old behaviours. He flips between being a victim, saviour and perpetrator. He’s also in “super fixer” mode as that was the intention of the text to me. He thinks he can change me.

He’s behaving like I used to with him. Accusing me of lots of things, criticising me, judging my life, telling me I’m mentally ill, that I’m full of self-loathing, emotionally immature, being superior, that I gaslighted him, making me feel I’m a bad mother and wife. There’s more too!

My response was a good one I think. I felt better taking control over the situation rather than appeasing or “doing a dance”. I talked the talk which in itself is a demonstration of behaviours I’d like to see in him.

No idea how he will receive it. To be honest, I’m almost past caring. My life’s moved on, I had a blip the last couple of days but I’ve reconciled it. If he wants a relationship with me then that’s up to him. If he’s resentful and accusatory then I’m not prepared to go forwards until he can demonstrate some healthy interactions.

I’m glad I replied. It was the respectful thing to do as he spent time and energy communicating his feelings. I had to prove I was listening.

Thanks everybody for your support.

LP

[Swimmy55]

Hi LP,
 I admire how you have handled this situation.  You have acted with dignity and integrity to your son AND to yourself. 

[wendydarling]

Hi LP

Well done for setting the boundary, what you will and will not accept and as you say demonstrate the healthy behaviour you expect. LP all the exemplary work you've put in here learning the communication skills and tools over the years you've drawn on. Huat will likely be along admiring your back bone  . And you are right it's about taking control, finding your balance and not partaking in the dance.

You have acted with dignity and integrity to your son AND to yourself.

Well said Swimmy  

I know it's not easy and it's tiring. We're here to help you keep your glass full.  

WDx

[Lollypop]

Awh Swimmy

Thank you. I really needed that. I’ve been feeling very disturbed and doubting myself.

Son29 visited son19 in work yesterday. Son19 told me that he wanted me to understand just how much son29 dislikes me right now. Son19 said he criticises you Mum and when I set him straight about a couple of things he tried to manipulate me by saying you’re a liar. Son19 feels uncomfortable and he wants me to understand what’s going on. He’s warning me.

Of course, this doesn’t match up to son29 and his texts. He says he loves me, I only have to ask for his help and support etc (because he sees me as depressed, fearful, mentally ill).  I read the words knowing/feeling them to be untrue because I know him. He can’t love somebody he dislikes - he doesn’t have that emotional maturity. His action to black me has destroyed any trust I had in him.

I’ve been really upset. Something I haven’t been for years.

Upset that son19 is put in this position. He goes back to Uni this week and I’m very glad.

Upset for my husband, because suddenly son29 has declared Him golden and that he wants to spend more time with him. The fact is that my husband wanted me to disown son29 years ago but went along with my plan to try and restore the relationship for my sake.

We’d reached a reasonable place as a family. It took Us years and now it’s coming undone.

Husband Is old school and not a “touchy feely” type. He will not tolerate any criticism of me so I can’t see how any son/father bonding will work. Husband says “you’ve moved heaven and earth for him and he doesn’t understand I went along with it for you, not him”. Son29 says he’s going to send him a letter, husband says he’s going to not reply so I can see an escalation,

Meanwhile, there’s the issue of this young girl. I’ve reached out to my best friend for support and she happens to work in safeguarding. As she says, if you think a vulnerable person is at risk then “never do nothing”. In a normal situation, I’d guess I’d call the mother. But she’s a drug user and, let’s not forget, she agreed that son29 could spend time with this girl on their own without her, I don’t know this woman, only what son29 has said. She hates the police, rages and lives alternatively, dysfunctional. This is a moral dilemma. I believe son has manipulated his ex-gf and he tried to manipulate us to validate his relationship with a 15 year old. If he hadn’t blacked me, I think I’d have had some opportunity to talk this through with him in a way that he could hear me. Clearly, he’s on dangerous ground.

I’ve experienced “flight”, “disowning” and “retaliatory” reactions. I’ve not deleted him off my phone or blocked him. I’ve held myself down. I’ve cried. I’ve not contacted son29.

We wait. We get on with our lives.

Our house is up for sale. We were planning on staying in the area because we knew son29 needs our emotional support. However, given the recent changes it’s got us both re-thinking about location...I can no longer provide the emotional support because I’m blacked, husband doesn’t want to (nor does he have the skill set or the motivation - he wants to retire and live his life peacefully), son19 is not responsible for son29 and just resents him (there’s no respect or trust).

What a complicated mess,

Today, I’m going to walk the dogs, buy some food and make us a meal.

LP

[Lollypop]

WD

Our posts crossed!

I’d never have believed I’d be in this situation. Pride comes before a fall.

I was very proud of how far we’d come. Realistically though, without professional treatment/help, our stability was always temporary.

The three of us all feel the same I think. We take care of one another. We fear for son29 - my friend leapt forward and said she could see him sectioned. Not a helpful comment but I have to agree with her.

Meanwhile, son29 is “fixing” what he sees is a divided family. Obviously, all my fault. There’s a family party (subject to Covid) end of October and he’s making real effort to reconnect with his favourite cousin. Also with his Gran (who idolises him). He’s basking in his glory! 

Our heads are held high as we watch the show.

Thank you.

LP

[Lollypop]

OMG, just had a thought. Does he intend to take the girl?

[wendydarling]

A very wise person here, said to me when my DD was last in crisis, hang in there, is just what I needed to hear, I'm passing on to you.   I spent that morning, ironing and listening to classical music, DD was in hospital. I can't think of a better way for you to spend time with your dear young DS19 ahead of his return to uni. Sunday dinner, with all the trimmings and love as he goes safely on his way.  

Today is your day.

LP I am so very proud of what you've achieved, and continue to. I know it's not easy, preservation of family, is BPDFamily mission. I neither thought, you'd be where you are, DS now hurting you, his family. Upset, all around. You have shown us what can be achieved when loved ones are fearful, in denial of reaching out for professional help. That said, DS has tipped, is burdening you all, projecting, flipping between being a victim, saviour and perpetrator. What a professional BPD therapist dealings with, with support.

Again, today is your day, time to rest up, be you.  

WDx

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Lollypop]

Hi WD

Worryingly, already worried ourselves, three separate people have approached us “is son29 ok, he’s behaving so strangely?”.

These are people he’s known for years and know him well. Am ex gf, an ex colleague and an old friend from school. Interestingly, the ex colleague challenged him about being in the company of a young girl. Son29 was very uncomfortable about the challenge,

Thanks WD.

I’m thankful for being back here,

LP

[wendydarling]

We've both been there haven't we LP, suicide ideation, trips to ER, trips when our adult children reached out, desperate for help, and then miles away from home and getting them to a safe place.

Has DS responded to your text?

The suggestion to you by someone to section, what do you think? When did you last meet up with DS?

WDx

[Lollypop]

Hi WD

He replied Friday. He says we can now leave this and move on. “This” meaning talk of the past.

We haven’t spent much time together at all since Covid. He kept in regular phone contact calling every 2-3 days or so. This lessened as he spent more time at ex-gf’s in lockdown march through June. We went out for a family meal at the end of July. I think that was the last face to face meeting up we’ve had.

I got a missed call Sunday morning. I didn’t answer because I just didn’t want to talk to him. He text asking me for some login information he needed. So I guess he’s motivated to sort out his finance; he’s also made contact with two other family we don’t see very often. He says he’s going to visit them all. He’s on a mission to bring the family together. We think “good luck with that”. They’ve their own dysfunction and family tensions. And problems.

We’re curious to see how the family react to him...if he goes.

Meanwhile, I’m very busy this week seeing son19 off, a funeral, a house viewing and a weekend on chug chug boat. I’ll be distracted and so less anxious.

Not sure if I should call son29 to break the ice...this would be for him and not me. I can’t be bothered. I don’t feel I should be easing and thus enabling. I’m tired and foggy. I’ve done enough. I don’t want to partake in this new game he’s playing. I want off the ride.

I can see I should have been doing a regular health check on just how healthy a relationship I thought I had with him. I can see I put the priority on the four of us being OK  with one another for an easy life. The cost has been too great. I needed better boundaries and have been quietly enabling.

This is endless. I’m wondering if it is indeed easier to walk away, certainly some space would be good.

LP

[Huat]

Hello Lollypop!

Indeed, this "old timer" is still here.

For the past couple of weeks my internet connection has been on a public hot spot.  I could read but not log in.  How frustrating that was for me because I so wanted to jump right in the moment I saw your post and give you the biggest hug.

While a smile came on my face when I saw your moniker show up...it then vanished as I read about the latest developments with Son29.   Especially disturbing is his relationship with an unrestrained 15-year old girl.  As a Mom you so want to believe in him...so want to believe it is a "friendship"... but your gut tells you differently.  Do you bite your tongue for the sake of keeping up contact with him?

If anyone here has done their homework in relation to dealing with someone who suffers from mental illness, it is you.  Over the past years of reading your posts, I have admired your strength...your resilience.  You've worked hard to educate yourself on different ways to help this troubled son of yours...worked hard on keeping him part of the family unit.  Dealing with his illness has put a tremendous strain on all of you.  When is enough, enough?  When do you salvage as much as you can, then change direction?  When do you put the oxygen masks on yourselves?  As you well know, those are questions only you can answer.  Seems your husband and Son19 know theirs. 

My husband and I have had to ask those questions of ourselves.  We are much more advanced in age.  Our storybook of woes with our daughter has many more chapters.  We had hoped that this pandemic would help to bring healing with/within her...end our current 4-year-long period of being estranged but, if anything, her anger towards me has escalated.  I do fear for my future safety so I have had to focus on a different kind of homework.   In our case we have finally had to say...enough IS enough. 

It is heart-wrenching for a parent to know their child is suffering.  You and I both know that our beloved children are suffering.  In wanting to make their lives better, ours and those of other family members have been damaged.  I have managed... at times... to get comfort in repeating The Prayer of Serenity.  On my down-days I work on reminding myself that better days can and do come.  Good-days/bad-days.  Hmmmm?...I guess that is referred to as...Life.

To repeat the words in one of Wendydarling's posts...”Hang in there!”   I so agree with her that you should re-think offering anymore apologies to Son29.  You've done that and to continue is to enable him to shirk responsibilities for his own actions. 

The future may not be what you originally wanted it to be...but, with work, it just might turn out to be not-so-bad.  You've done the best you could do, Lollypop, and you WILL continue to do so.  The trials and tribulations you have been through have molded you into the strong, caring, accomplished person you are today (for sure more "molding" to come).  Wow!     Good on you!

((HUGS)... ...from Huat    ; )

[Lollypop]

Oh Huat, how I love your responses. It’s like a comfort blanket with knobs on. A challenging blanket.

I hadn’t picked up on WD’s intimation of re-thinking apologies. I’m so glad you pointed this out,

I spoke with my favourite cousin in the US this week. Of course she asked about my kids. She could tell by my reply, eldest was troublesome. She said this laughing::

“You know, I speak with my two girls and I tell them both, when the eldest came I scrxxed up. I just didn’t know what I was doing. My second was a boy And I xxrewxx up again. I had no idea about boys. I did ok by my third child”.

She made me laugh at her good humour and honesty. Somehow, in the trials and tribulations our humour rises above and below...almost disappearing.

Our youngest leaves us tomorrow. He’s sad to go, we are sad he leaves. But we are confident he’ll be ok. .

Meanwhile, I lick our wounds. No contact from son29 yet.

Me and husband spoke this evening. We both feel done for now. As husband says, he’s dropped a grenade on us and I think he expects us to rally around him. We sit tight.

I read the section on Boundaries on this site and then watched the video about getting them into treatment.

This rang true;

“Without a relationship there is no recovery or treatment”.

But at what cost?

The price may by too high for us. The cost is too high,

I hope you and your husband are doing ok Huat. You’ve been a glorious inspiration to me. We want to retire and live a simple, peaceful and contented life. A life Ok, despite the problem of heartache. I may by new to being blacked but I read so many times here stories of how that feels it’s like I’m prepared. Suffering is through attachment.

I’m started to envisage a new cloak, a humble one. I don’t need to be a super power any longer, it’s time to let go. We love him. My guilt continues to be raw...but, you know, for chrxxt’s sake I did my best. I’m not going to be a punch bag. If I’m not good enough then I’ll be ok.

LP

[Lollypop]

Hi Haut

As a Mom you so want to believe in him...so want to believe it is a "friendship"... but your gut tells you differently.  Do you bite your tongue for the sake of keeping up contact with him?-

I’m thinking about this. I know the answer is clear.

Thanks for steering me to the priority.

LP

[Huat]

Hello back Lollypop

Nice to read you got to have a few laughs with that State's side cousin of yours.  We all need people like her in our lives.  What a stress releaser it is when we manage to laugh.

So now Son19 is off and gone to university.  Wow!  Your nest is really empty.  No matter how prepared you think you were for this send-off, I am sure this is playing in your mind as you also wrestle with the problems of Son29...kind of like a double whammy for you.  Thankfully I had a dog who adored me at the time the door closed behind our son when he finally ventured out on his own.  That faithful companion licked my tears while my husband nestled into his easy chair to watch the next game on TV.  The kid left...what's the problem?

No matter what your cousin says about "getting things right by the time the 3rd one came along",  it really is nature/nuture.  Some of the brightest stars have come from the most humble/dysfunctional upbringings.  Vice-versa are those who have been born into much. yet make a mess of their lives.

You write..."My guilt continues to be raw..."   I would venture a guess that each of us have those moments of reflection...think back  and wonder..."if I had only..."  For instance, with this troublesome daughter  of ours who first ran away at age 12, if I had only handled myself differently, quite possibly all of our lives would have turned out much better.  I fell apart...she took control...the stage was set for years of subsequent jaw-dropping kinds of behaviour.  Even though at the time I had no education on how to deal with an out-of-control child, should I feel guilty now?

Guilt is a powerful emotion...a necessary emotion that helps to keep us on the straight-and-narrow.  When we know we are doing wrong, the weight is felt...and so it should be.  With that said, and in relation to these troubled individuals who share our lives, we do the best we can with the knowledge we have at the time.  When we know better...we do better.  That is an accomplishment that we should pride ourselves on...not slow ourselves down, hinder our progress, with the weight of guilt.  Easier said than done...always a work-in-progress for me.

For sure not an easy road ahead for you, Lollypop.  Son29 is proving himself to be a "package of head-shaking surprises."  You just come to grips with one...then comes another.  Well, you've proven yourself, too.   No one can call you a wimp!

About this present situation with Son29 you write..."I'm thinking about this.  I know the answer is clear."  Well, if is clear today and then not so clear tomorrow...be patient with yourself.  You are trying your best...but keep in mind you are limited as to what you can do.

Good luck on the buying and selling of homes...an exciting  new-beginning for you and hubby.  Keep sharing...keep us posted.

((HUGS)  from Huat

[livednlearned]

Hello friend, I'm late to your post but wanted to offer a hug and two listening ears 

What a roller coaster s29 is on, and what determination to persuade others to get on there with him.

I agree with WD, it does sound like he's in a manic/psychotic phase, no thanks to the drugs. I also wonder if he feels he is somehow "repairing" this 15yo's father figure issues. This may be giving him an outsized idea that he is good at family, something he must experience tremendous shame about given his history with his own.

When SD23 experiences (her version of) genuine intimacy, she can become manic. Could this be happening with S29? It's at the extreme edges of mood where things seem to go off the rails, often instigated by relationship stressors, at least for SD23. And there are always relationship stressors. 

Also a bit curious about the sibling dynamic and timing of S19's departure to uni. My uBPD brother upstaged every big life moment I had with some kind of dysregulation. Not sure that's quite the right fit given what you've described but with uBPD brother and SD23, there definitely seems to be a remarkable intuition for drama when someone else is experiencing a big moment.

Has S29 responded to your message?

[Lollypop]

Thank you LnL

I believe his deep reflection of his childhood has raised his emotions as he relives moments/memories from his child perspective. He’s somehow got stuck in the past with a mixture of truth, fantasy and delusional sense of his own self-importance. He truly believes he’s physically different with powers and that I’m going to like him. He repeated this a lot in his texts. They are raw and rambling and hurtful. He knew they’d hurt but his need was the greater; it had to be said in his eyes.

There’s a reluctant acknowledgement that things have been better over the last few years, but his feelings of mistrust and disdain have been brought to the fore from these relived memories and skewed beliefs.

We have our house up for sale, we talk about our retirement plans, plus son19 now left for Uni. I think you’re right about the drama creation And of course these are big happenings and he struggles to cope.I think it’s also been exacerbated because we have had such limited physical contact with him in Covid. He’s twisted this to an idea that we are living in total fear.

Son has revisited family over the weekend. He’s been welcomed with open arms it seems. We’ve waited with bated breath to have some feedback on how it’s all gone. Has anybody notice he is behaving oddly? No, because he chose to not see them for years. With only the odd snippet “he’s really changed”, “he’s had a good time” to “you must be so very proud” I’m understanding it’s going to take some restraint from us. I visit my sister later this week. I’d love to be able to get some support from her but as husband says .”poisoning his well” may not be the right thing to do. I’m going to need a response to her wonderful view of him. My goodness, he’s a charmer and master manipulator.

In answer to your question, he did reply and we had a small interchange. I could tell he was irritated by my tone. He left it with “we are both now free”, “regardless of what you say and what you’ve done it does not detract from  my truth”.  The truth being that I’m mentally ill, caused all his problems, have been a terrible mother and wife.

We haven’t spoken since the 16th August. This is highly unusual as he normally calls every 2-3 days. Normally, he likes to laugh and share  his work experiences or stories. There is now a big silence.

I really need advice. I’m not sure there’s any point in trying to reach out. Whatever I say or do will be used against me. I’m also thinking about his words “we are both free”. He cut the tie and actually it’s a relief in a way. I swing around emotionally and been very tearful, husband too. We’ve walked this walk before, we are so much more aware, but this time it feels different. The feeling of physical sickness of anxiety is sadly back.

My gut says “do nothing”. Wait. We are at stalemate. I can see this lasting a very long time. It’s not something that can be recovered from I believe.

I’m trying to control myself as I’ve got words like “you’ll be sorry when I’m dead” going through my head sometimes. Hardly helpful.

There’s no way, we believe, son29 can maintain this level of energy as his new person living this new life...

Son29 keeps saying he’s going to text and/or speak to husband. I’ve no idea what husband plans on saying. It’s strange, his gaslighting really has affected me and made me doubt myself, my role and responsibility.

I can’t even remember what question I need answering LnL.

Thanks for replying to me

LP