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Author Topic: Oh boy, Adult son getting into deep trouble  (Read 940 times)
livednlearned
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« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2020, 06:12:41 PM »

He truly believes he’s physically different with powers and that I’m going to like him.

Oh my. That must be hard to hear and respond to. I don't know what I'd do if I heard that from a loved one.

Blink I suppose  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

I’m going to need a response to her wonderful view of him. My goodness, he’s a charmer and master manipulator.


That's the hardest, isn't it? When family isn't on the same page about the state of someone's reality. When we have challenging children it can feel doubly hard to have strained family relationships elsewhere.

He left it with “we are both now free”, “regardless of what you say and what you’ve done it does not detract from  my truth”.

There is now a big silence.

I’m not sure there’s any point in trying to reach out.


This is so painful to read, Lollypop. All the hard work and careful skill building, the belief in his ability to live independently and manage his life come to this point. Heart breaking.

My son's psychiatrist says by training he does not believe we do things by accident, and I'm thinking of that while reading about S29. Why now, S29? He seems to be self-sabotaging in a way that seems different from what he's done before.

Whatever I say or do will be used against me. I’m also thinking about his words “we are both free”. He cut the tie and actually it’s a relief in a way. I swing around emotionally and been very tearful, husband too. We’ve walked this walk before, we are so much more aware, but this time it feels different. The feeling of physical sickness of anxiety is sadly back.

An awful feeling  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) especially after a spell without it. You learn to feel good and then it comes back like a truck. I have so much less tolerance for that feeling now that I'm aware how to create a life without it. I wish you and H peace getting through this, LP.

My gut says “do nothing”. Wait. We are at stalemate. I can see this lasting a very long time. It’s not something that can be recovered from I believe.

I'm glad you came back to share and let us walk with you. These relationships sure can bring us to our knees can't they.
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Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders
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« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2020, 01:22:45 AM »

Thank you again LnL

The timing is Covid as he had a break from normal routines.

A reflective time for us all.

We came up with the feeling that we wanted a different way of living and brought forward retirement plans. Son29 on the other hand chose to self medicate with acid to fix himself.

As his power and confidence grows (as he sees it) he can build a new life for himself. He gets to choose. I remember we used to talk about a power toolkit on the forum, that’s what he thinks he has. I talk about creating a curiosity in them, when we are practising our new interaction skills. He’s demonstrating the same, he believes he uses the right words. I’m not joking. It’s like a massive mirroring.

I did the work. He took pills.

He no longer needs me.

He feels fixed.

It’s quite simple really.

I became too empathetic without good limits and boundaries. Of course, currently he has no empathy but who knows? Maybe that will come..

I feel “lesser” because of this situation I’m in. I want to curl up. I’m small. He’s large. That was his intention.

When I came to this forum LBJ was here. She helped me so much in my early days. She had to leave. There are no happy endings, only a happier life despite the problems. I felt I’d got to a place of comfortable mutual acceptance and respect. My rug was taken from under me. I’ve seen it happen to others. It’s life.

H says “he’s thrown a grenade in with the letter, it can never be taken back.” Nope, it can’t.

Thanks for making me laugh with your “blink”. Strange I can get away with a blink but not a raised eyebrow  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Looks like I’ve got my freedom. Be careful what you wish for. I’ll be ok.

LP

Ps.have a great day LnL

I feel better because by writing we sort Our thoughts.


« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 01:37:07 AM by Lollypop » Logged

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« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2020, 01:17:08 AM »

We’ve both been allowing ourselves done time to re-balance and our thoughts to settle down.

Excerpt
. I also wonder if he feels he is somehow "repairing" this 15yo's father figure issues. This may be giving him an outsized idea that he is good at family, something he must experience tremendous shame about given his history with his own.

LNL:
Yes, I think so too. He got triggered because I didn’t immediately agree to meet her. He’s taken on repairing his relationships with all members of our family who he had rejected for years...there’s 5 others plus us 3.

The relationship between the four of us has been different for the last 6 months. Son19 has needed a lot of emotional support and we’ve got much closer (less focus on son29). There’s competition between them.

These are my thoughts right now.

I did my best. He told me I’m not good enough.

I’m sorely tempted to have this as my epitaph  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

My husband also shared with me yesterday. He’s come a very long way on this journey with his own emotional resilience. He particularly struggled to accept our son29 and his addictive behaviours.

He says he doesn’t want to play son’s game. If he’s contacted he’s going to ignore it.

I gulped. I said “we’ll be back to tears tomorrow”. He agreed that we bounce around right now. .

Now, if I were my husband and I was in his situation I’d behave differently. We’ve got some more work to do to agree just how we will stand together.

My potential phrase for the family will be

“I’m so glad you’ve all had a great time together. He doesn’t like me much right now but I’m sure things will sort themselves out eventually”.

Light as a fairy. I’d rather be a bull in a china shop... Smiling (click to insert in post)

LP


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« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2020, 04:00:03 AM »

Ah, the curved ball came in sideways.

A short nicey text to me asking for some family birthday information. My jaw dropped, (not our birthdays) we haven’t received cards for years. Gosh, this IS going to be a circus show. To be honest, I’m amazed he uses his calendar! ,

He’s behaving like there’s nothing wrong. Safety in that zone isn’t there.

Perhaps he’s testing the water because he can feel a tension. Perhaps he’s completely unaware that’s he’s upset us. Perhaps he knows we are upset. In which case for the latter two suggestions, this would be some reassurance that he’s unwell (which we know).

My light as a fairy approach was OK to a point. A word of warning to you reader.

I bent too far in my attempt to try to solidify the family.

This approach helped me ignore my biggest weakness...setting limits.

We enter into new limit territory, new learning. It comes regardless if he’s in our life or not.

LP

Ps. Drug addiction sucks and wrecks families. Just sayin.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2020, 11:02:09 AM »

My light as a fairy approach was OK to a point. A word of warning to you reader.

I bent too far in my attempt to try to solidify the family.

This approach helped me ignore my biggest weakness...setting limits.

Ooof, LP. I learned this too, the hard way.

If we're not careful we can end up with tire marks on the back of our head.

I do wonder about the role of memory in BPD. Shari Manning writes about it in Loving Someone With BPD and while it makes sense when I read it, I'm never sure how to fully connect it with BPD behaviors. I remember reading something a woman with BPD wrote, about how she came home to find her home on fire, not realizing until someone told her that she was the one who burned it down.

We enter into new limit territory, new learning. It comes regardless if he’s in our life or not.

So much is unfolding. I imagine the uncertainty must feel very unnerving, not to mention the after effects of his earlier behavior. Like emotional whiplash.

Did you respond with the family birthday information?

Drug addiction sucks and wrecks families

Yes they do.

Do you have something you can turn to for self-care while the circus goes on?
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« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2020, 12:33:39 PM »

Hi LnL

Yes, I replied but just with the information he asked for.  He “hoped I had a good weekend” which is a statement not a question. I know I’m being trite.

I’m currently in an oil painting group as I learn how to push paint around. It’s been my lifeline in Covid. I graduated as a mature fine art student last year. I miss that routine and the young people I was with.

I go away to visit my sister tomorrow until Sunday. I could pick up my mother in law and bring her back for a few days. I’ve not see either since before Xmas and early February respectively.

The thing is, I’m dreading it. They’ll both be full of son’s visit and how well he’s doing. I think I can cope with a short and early conversation but if they go on and on I think I’ll scream.

There’s also the problem of having my mother in law here. I would normally invite son to join us for a meal. I didn’t want to make the first step. I think it’d be best if he felt the gulf or reached a point that he either wanted to see me or needed to see me. I think this is important. However, I can’t tell my
Mother in law what’s been going on.

Me inviting him here for a meal just feels wrong. I’m angry and upset. I can’t pretend happy families. Not right now. Am I unreasonable?

I feel guilty about my mother in law already...I haven’t invited her yet.

LP
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« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2020, 06:44:21 AM »

LP how are you doing? How did your time with sister go?

WDx
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« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2020, 03:11:17 AM »

Hi WD

My trip north went very well. I think it was useful for them to have the opportunity to get to spend some time with son29 and then tell me about it. It’s like they were ready to feel positively about him. I stuck to my planned reply and it was good to practice it on my sister. But It didn’t take too long for their concerns to pop up.

He stayed one night at his favourite cousins and they stayed up late talking. She told him straight about the step daughter - “she’s not your responsibility, this will ruin your life”. My MIL warned him that people will get the wrong impression, she wanted to say more to him but backed off. I was relieved and it felt good to have family support. I’ve no idea what my BIL said but can guess.

I felt my sister gave good counsel to me. I didn’t go into exact detail about the letter but did say he blamed me for everything, including his addiction.. She said to me that it doesn’t matter who’s right or wrong, our adult children make their own choices about their lives, we must not expect them to say sorry or feel responsible for their wrongs because, in her own story, her daughter would never say sorry because she hasn’t the maturity yet.

I see this isn’t in line with our views on validating the invalid. Something I’ve always found difficult to negotiate.

Recently I shifted to my old too hard thinking. I also should have asked him to come round and talk to us earlier as my inaction was escalating my own thoughts and in the dangerous karpman triangle.

H had spent the weekend thinking about the situation too. He’d softened.

We called son29 that evening. We do joint speaker calls now so his Dad is included. Son29 spoke about this step dad role and we asked some questions to understand (he could feel that we wanted to understand). If what he’s said is true.

Heard nothing all week from son29. He has never written that letter to his Dad, despite telling us all individually he would do so. I’m curious as to why not...I think he’s scared...I think deep down inside he has a doubt about how he’s perceived things. Perhaps, he’s also reflected on the family advice given to him by the family.

We called again yesterday. The call was friendly but it was clear he’s struggling emotionally as he’s set himself the task to understand the current political, environmental and Covid situation. He sounded bleak but he needed to understand so he could decide how he was going to help change the world. Setting aside our feelings about this, it must be exhausting for him.

Sorry for the lengthy reply. It helps me reflect.

Son29 feels less powerful than he did, some reality is hitting him.

There’s been good consequences of his sending me the horrid letter. I’ve also reconnected with the family. H and I are together now in most interactions with both sons. We are making an effort to be better to each other and with our sons who live away from us.

Trying to stay connected.

Thanks everybody for your words of advice and support. I’m rebalanced, mindful and enjoying my spare time.

LP
Ps. It seems so long WD and I’ve thought of you and your daughter often in lockdown.
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wendydarling
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« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2020, 10:45:50 AM »

LP,  Welcome new member (click to insert in post) it's good to hear your trip went well, it sounds like you made progress in many ways, including having joint calls with your sons. I'm sure much has happened since, and here we are entering a second lockdown  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

Thx for thinking of us, DD is well! I'm off to write an update.

What news do you have LP?  Hope all is as well as it can be at this difficult time.

Hi to everyone posting here, pleased to meet you. Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

WDx
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« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2020, 11:07:27 AM »

Me, too Welcome new member (click to insert in post)...I've been thinking of you, Lollypop. Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

I've always been impressed at how hard you have worked over these many years to keep a workable relationship with Son29...done so much homework to find solutions to the problems.  You truly are a role-model.

Your last post was in mid-September.  Silence since then.  I am glad that Wendydarling took the initiative to follow through asking for a follow-up.

Covid is playing havoc all over the world with some spots getting hit more than others.  The news tells us that England is one of the hot spots.  As if there isn't enough "normal" stress in families like ours, right?  Now even more added. Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

Hope all are safe...and they stay safe!

Huat

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« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2020, 12:17:57 PM »

Hi there pals

Knock sideways by the unexpected wrath from son, I got knocked off my perch and I got caught up in a new rollercoaster ride for a wee while. I tried to steady myself and found the best remedy was to allow some time to pass. Doing “nothing”, is an action in itself. It took a lot of determination to not dwell on his words and false accusations.

Things have settled down. We talk a few times each week.

I saw son29 last week for the first time since July. It went ok and it was at his instigation. He needed my help and, of course, I wouldn’t refuse. Not only is he more resilient in dealing with his finance affairs, I’m more resilient at emotionally detaching myself from his problems.

We have sold our house and are now actively trying to find a new home. We’ve chosen to stay in the area...for ourselves as it’s a lovely part of England...but for both of our sons. We try to be a family, as best as we can. In fact, we all are trying our best. Son29 seems much less delusional - to be honest, I accept he’s just not a very nice person. I’m not sure he can truly love anybody unconditionally. He can say the right words but it’s his actions that shows us that he’s just not interested...not emotionally connected.

Covid has forced a physical separation and there’s been consequences. I’ve learnt I can’t win with bpd...only accept.

I hope you’re both ok HUAT and WD. I hope you’re living a good life for yourselves.

LP
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Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders
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« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2020, 04:56:54 PM »

LP  Welcome new member (click to insert in post) that's such a good reminder 'doing nothing' is an action. I am glad to hear things settled down for you, and DS instigated your meet up I would guess prompted by both your actions and 'doing nothing' action.

Excerpt
Not only is he more resilient in dealing with his finance affairs,
YOU taught him how to manage his finances, using skills and tools you learnt here  Way to go! (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
I’m more resilient at emotionally detaching myself from his problems.
YOU learnt how to 'detach with love' here  Way to go! (click to insert in post)

Does DS know it is unacceptable for him to send you his wrath through texts because he's dysregulating big time, drugging ... and wanted to be heard.

BPD/NPD I understand may appear similar. You mentioned you think you are seeing NPD traits, lack of empathy... I just wanted to share that DD was totally unable to be empathetic when she was in crisis, she was consumed by her. Now she cites empathy as one her strengths as many with BPD do.  Then I think about DS receiving a BPD diagnosis in the US, while not meeting the criteria in the UK. You may recall at one point we wondered about schizoaffective and more recently DD was questioning if bi-polar too. No pure BPD, it seems to be.

Excerpt
I’ve learnt I can’t win with bpd...only accept.
you can accept and you can take winning steps forward  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

How's the house search going LP? So excited for you!

WDx
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« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2020, 12:29:31 PM »

Hi WD

Excerpt
Does DS know it is unacceptable for him to send you his wrath through texts because he's dysregulating big time, drugging ... and wanted to be heard.

No he doesn’t. I think I got confused after being/looking “stable” for a period. I kind of eased to a new more relaxed normal, not so heightened to look for signs of precariousness. It seemed to come from nowhere.

I’m not making the same mistake again...hopefully.

His oppositional stance and insistence to non/conform...are things we now accept. The lack of empathy just hurts. He genuinely is incapable of unconditional love. Self always comes first.

We sold...should exchange in January...fingers crossed for us. We choose to stay in the same area but closer to amenities. I fought the flight!  Ha!

Thanks WD.

LP
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