SD14 potential HS unenroll? Not sure what to do.

[kells76]

We were talking last night about how HS might go this fall -- SD14 will be a 9th grader and since spring the plan has been for her to go to local district HS. Most of her friends are going to the HS that's out of Mom's district (SD14 & friends went to charter school based out of district).

Side note; she had been super excited about a "day in the life of HS" day camp type thing that we found out about back in June; I told her it was fine with me and DH but to check with Mom because most of it was during her time with Mom. It was supposed to happen a week or two ago; I asked her if it turned out and she said "no, we couldn't find the information". 

So she says that actually, she might not do Local HS this fall...! Apparently Mom has an online "moms' group" and the "plan" is that the moms will rotate teaching one of their strengths for 30 minutes 1x/week. SD14 specifically mentioned there might be an astrology and star chart class. She said that "they" (at Mom's house) just want to have more time to do stuff like clean out the basement or go on trips when they feel like it, not be stuck in front of a computer 4 hours a day. Plus, SD14 said she won't know anyone at HS and likes feeling more connected in person to teachers and peers.

She kept saying how she has this plan and has a work ethic for what she wants to do, and plans to keep up writing, journaling, art, and wants to do science and math. We asked her what she would do if HS opened back up, and she said "but it won't", so we specified "so what if it opens up in midyear, what do you think you would do" and she wasn't super specific. I asked her if she would want to go back to HS (after a year off) as a sophomore (i.e., staying on track, vs redoing 9th grade), and she said Yes, so I asked who she thought she would talk to at HS about her plan to make sure it would do that for her. She wasn't super sure but suggested she might talk to the incoming Freshman coordinator. Doesn't sound like this has happened yet.

DH tried to be validating, and said he understood not wanting to be in front of a computer for hours a day. He asked her what else she wanted to work on, and she mentioned stuff like debate, so he offered to help her with logic and reading classics (that's his background). I think it's assumed I'll help w/ math & sci (my background).

He checked in with her after a bit to see how she was doing, that he wanted her to know that he didn't want to come across as attacking her or being down on the plan, and that he hoped she could see him as a helpful ally for her. She said something like "I didn't used to" or "it didn't used to be that way". She started getting emotional and kind of defensive; I asked her how I could help her or what research I could do for her and she said Nothing. She started talking about how "a friend of a friend of Mom's has this laptop I can use, but it's not like I want my own computer" and then she got super teary eyed. She cycled through a bunch of emotions -- upset with herself for not holding it together, mad at being vulnerable, guilty over "taking up time", angry that she wasn't living up to her ideal of someone who could keep it together, upset that she felt like a stereotype of an "angsty teen"... lots and lots of stuff.

We tried to validate -- just comment like "you don't like feeling vulnerable" or "you didn't want to feel out of control". She mostly was in verbal external processing mode. DH did some stronger statements like "we're all in process, even me in my 40s, none of us live up to our ideals". She did OK with hearing that but didn't really engage.

She talked about how if she were at Mom's house, then Mom & Stepdad at this point would be asking her all about how she was feeling, and where she thought it was coming from, and what the true source was, and showing kindness to her that way. She said something like "as opposed to telling me to stop feeling sad and get over it". DH asked her what her experience here in this moment was, and she said I think you're caring for me, but in a way that I can't make sense of. She mentioned that sometimes she didn't want to be "probed" and have all her thoughts and feelings analyzed and dug into, that she wanted privacy for her feelings.

This was probably like 45 min of her being teary, emotional, frustrated with herself, etc. She mentioned a couple of times how it would make sense to be upset about something truly emotional, but "this didn't make sense, it wasn't reasonable to be upset about education". So DH and I were like, hmmm, maybe that's some information for you, maybe there's something to dig into there.

SD12 came through a couple of times, but had her own project going on. She filled us in on her project and then took off to go work on it; that did seem to help SD14 come down a bit -- something else to focus on. So later the conversation turned to "roadmaps" -- DH shared with her that when we're younger, we make these "maps" to get through life, and they're based on information that come from how and where we grow up. Sometimes the info is good so we have a good/accurate map, and sometimes it's not. And when we get older, we have to reassess if our map is working or if we need to change it. SD14 talked about how when she was younger she did not see DH as an ally but saw him as always against her. She said she had changed that on her map.

SD14 also mentioned how she thought or worried that DH seemed sad after she said "you didn't used to be my ally" and she was worried about that. DH said for what it's worth, if this is helpful to you, I didn't feel that way. She talked about how she tried to take care of people's feelings, so we talked about that a bit, and she did some verbal processing of "I don't do that any more, wait yes I do, but I don't want to, actually I do want to and enjoy it" -- all over the place. She finally had this insight that taking care of people's feelings was like being a drug addict and DH and I just said Yes. DH commented that it is choosing comfort over discomfort.

She seemed done but still up and down, so I asked her if she would do something for me. She seemed startled but said Yes. I said, would you please do something kind for yourself? Smell something nice, get a glass of juice, etc? She got super emotional after that and said she felt mad, but didn't want to feel mad, and was frustrated that she did. I said "That sounds uncomfortable" and DH said "sounds like it is hard for you to be patient with yourself", and she agreed with both. Then she somehow popped out of it and was like, weird, I do feel better, I guess I just did have to wait.

So we talked about Wisemind, and how it's a way to balance our feeling mind with our thinking mind without going to one extreme or the other. I said she used wisemind when she noticed she was feeling mad. I said wisemind is when we just notice how we are feeling, and then we can decide what or if we want to do about it. Even wisemind is a tool that we can notice things about -- you can try wisemind and then decide if using it was helpful or not, and notice if you felt like it was or wasn't. She seemed receptive to that.

Then she was like OK, something nice I can do for myself is eat this ice cream  so I said Good job noticing something that seemed helpful to you in this moment. She was way better the rest of the day; went to her activity and then usually she'd go back to Mom's, but she and DH talked and she stayed the night with us instead.

...

LOTS going on.

I'm glad the talk went pretty well... there is just so much going on with her that she doesn't even notice yet. I feel like that's pretty positive, and it's positive (unless she's doing it to caretake DH) that she wanted to stay when it wasn't "her night". Could be any number of things -- not wanting to talk about this conversation with Mom/Stepdad, needing some relaxed time (she has said recently she feels more relaxed at our house), etc.

So there's the intangible side that is going... OK.

Then there's the practical side -- school. I mean, just when I thought things couldn't get crazier, she's going to get pulled out of HS for astrology class? I mean, WTF?

I do get not wanting to do a bunch of computer stuff, and to be fair, it's not like I'm the hugest fan of public schools around here, but I worry about the isolation and lack of oversight. Mom has pulled both kids out of school before (remember back when DH got a job at the co-op they were attending, so Mom withdrew the kids only for that year?  ) and when they went back it was obvious they were behind. I also worry about all the planning being put on SD14. Side note, can't remember if I mentioned this, but it doesn't sound like SD12 is getting pulled out... I think? Will need to follow up. Also, in our state, DH as NCP has the right to "inspect and receive school records".

There's a lot that's nebulous and unclear right now, so I don't even know what my questions are, if any. I guess I just need to get this out here for starters. Maybe my core question is -- how much do we step in to take weight off of SD14 (planning, curriculum, interface with local HS), and how much are we like "if this is what Mom says you're doing, then it's Mom's job to make it happen". I would be "OK" in a way if SD14 failed if that failure were chalked up to Mom (the way it truly should be) instead of Mom passing the buck and being like "not my fault you couldn't coordinate your own curriculum). The MO seems to be "if something goes wrong, it's the kids' fault; after all, it's always their choice what they want to do".

So what would the balance be between helping SD14 so there isn't all this weight on her, versus that just enabling Mom to have these stupid, harebrained ideas without any responsibility?

And what to do about the looming increase of isolation from peers and oversight? SD14 does have a 1 hour activity 1x/week, and we've talked about adding another that she REALLY wants to do so DH is looking into that. I guess we just coordinate more time to hang out with her friends? It does worry me, this whole "nobody outside Mom's friends get to have oversight on the kids" move.

It's all so crazy. I really thought I'd heard it all. It's so, so crazy.

[kells76]

Edit to add:

Not against homeschooling -- proud to have been homeschooled. Very concerned about the isolation due to the specific circumstances of Mom's dysfunction, not due to homeschooling itself.

Also... curious if unenrolling a child from school counts as "change in circumstances". Not sure if/what we'd do with that info, but curious.

[worriedStepmom]

I think you did a great job handling the conversation with SD14.  It sounds like y'all have laid a lot of the groundwork in the past so that she is starting to question things at her other house - but that makes her very uncomfortable.  It does seem like she's slowly moving down the right track.

As for school, UGH.  SD13's mom wanted to homeschool her, but since we're primary parent we got to nix that.  I do think unenrolling from school ought to count as a change in circumstances, especially since there's no plan and H wasn't consulted.

I think your choice of what you and H should do is very dependent on your long-term goal.
a) Get custody of the girls or the right to make education decisions - then offer mom a few suggestions and let her completely drop the ball.  You know that SD14 is going to be very far behind at the end of the year, and this plus the fact that this happened before might be enough to get the court to make a change.

b) have SD14 realize more of who mom is - then let SD14 know you offered mom suggestions and let mom drop the ball.  

c) SD14 to actually be educated this year - you and H will have to take over the planning

There's probably some middle ground, too, but I do think it is important that you know what H's long-term goal is.  Also, if there's more time for trips, that's great!  It will be easier for the girls to go see H's sister.

[kells76]

Also, if there's more time for trips, that's great!  It will be easier for the girls to go see H's sister.

Haha, I was thinking that too 

I do think unenrolling from school ought to count as a change in circumstances, especially since there's no plan and H wasn't consulted.

OK, good to get some feedback.

I think your choice of what you and H should do is very dependent on your long-term goal.

Good point. I anticipate he and I are going to have an interesting talk tonight. Right now his plan is to email Mom about what's going on. While the tone/construction of the email will dovetail with his goal (like you mentioned above), I also wonder if there's a way to "email some rope" to Mom for her to "tangle herself" with. Not sure how that would look.

I also get the idea of allowing Mom to drop the ball.

Yeah, just a lot is in the air and vague right now. I can't find any info online about this "emotional health moms' group" that apparently Mom has been in for 3 years -- the name is kind of vague and hard to search for.

IDK... part of me hopes that this is a turning point for SD14, even if/though it will probably involve failing, or her feeling overburdened. Like you mentioned

she is starting to question things at her other house - but that makes her very uncomfortable.

Yup. Bringing up a conversation about "mom wants us to do this instead for education" and then feeling like she "had to defend it" to DH was very emotional and uncomfortable for her.

Lots to think about.

[ForeverDad]

You need a meme:  Reasonably Normal Parents ... Rule

It's not up to the kids.  Reminds me when I happened to see that Spanish dipped down to a 55.  I lectured him how he was not goong to get an F+.  I said there are B+, C+, even D+ but an F is an F even if it's a 59.  I told him he had to work at least a little harder to get it into D territory.  Guess what?  It stayed at precisely 55 through the rest of the quarter.  He couldn't have kept it more stable if he'd tried.

His response was, But I didn't fail the quarter.

I should have been more firm.  I essentially let him snub the course's work.  I got B average in Spanish when I was in school.  I even led two classes when we focused on verb conjugation.  All the kids hated me then because the teacher graded on a curve based on the best score.  I did too well.  And I learned Spanish but his mother is fluent in Spanish.  Too late now, he's graduated.

Getting the kids' input and trying to get enthusiasm is great but it's not up to the kids.  Sorry, that's the reality I see.  Just be a bit more proactive than I was, okay?

[GaGrl]

So bio mom has custody, but is there still joint decision-making on major life issues like education, religion, etc.?

Bio mom is eventually going to the herself in knots with these things that end up being mutually illogical...can't go on plane/trip but can attend public protest, can't go on plane/trip but chooses homeschool for more trip opportunities, etc.

Can DH get the approved homeschool curriculum she plans to use?

(I'm shaking my head over the astrology lessons...jeez.)

[kells76]

So bio mom has custody, but is there still joint decision-making on major life issues like education, religion, etc.?

In our state there isn't a separation between legal custody and physical custody. There's just "sole" or "joint" custody. Mom has sole and never misses an opportunity to block out DH and also complain about what a burden it is to always be the only one caring about the kids doctor/dentist appts. She's a joy 

There is sort of a record (by absence/omission) of Mom not notifying, or informing, or doing anything remotely close to joint decision making about doctor stuff, vaccines, pronouns, schools, anything. You will not find one email or text where she gives him a legitimate heads up or asks to decide together.

Bio mom is eventually going to the herself in knots with these things that end up being mutually illogical...can't go on plane/trip but can attend public protest, can't go on plane/trip but chooses homeschool for more trip opportunities, etc.

It's insane. Like I mentioned before, it's not the homeschooling that's the problem -- it's who is "going to do the homeschooling" (I say loosely).

And like I said, while I'm not a huge fan of the public schools around here in terms of indoctrination vs critical thinking, I would strongly prefer the PS's to SD14 being at Mom's, with Mom's "friends" online, every day. I fear she's pulling at least SD14 into deeper indoctrination.

And the whole "more time for spontaneous trips" thing... they have this friend couple that they've been "quarantining with"  who live around the corner. Different friends than the ones that are moving in a week or two. Anyway, there is something weird and unsettling about the relationship that Mom especially has with the gal. SD14 has described it as some kind of deep close friendship... but there's something unhealthy and mutually, IDK, parasitic about it? So remember when the kids were like "DH, Mom says she always liked camping, but you wouldn't do it when you guys were married"? Well, Mom has only gotten into camping/hiking since spending more time with this friend couple. So she's kind of remaking her identity to meld with this couple. I think the couple is in thrall to Mom/Stepdad and see them as enlightened and profound. It's all icky and enmeshed.

Anyway, I would anticipate the trips would be with them. The wife is tutoring SD14 in Spanish, and apparently has either offered, or Mom has set up, for SD14 to take a trip to Friend Wife's native country for SD14's quinceanera... this February. Would have to take a plane. Lol. Ugh.

So there's these unhealthily close relationships going on at Mom's that may grow more enmeshed if SD14 is pulled out of regular HS to do 100% homeschool. Basically Mom surrounding SD14 with all these people who think Mom is hot stuff and think exactly the way Mom does.

...

So that circles back to, what to email to Mom. I like the idea of asking her for the curriculum plan for the year. In our state, DH as NCP can inspect/receive school records. I think grades are released every, what, 2 weeks? If she does pull this "homeschool" thing, it might be a good idea for DH to request those records from her every 2 weeks... or even every week. Put it back on her to comply.

Maybe kick it off with "Dear Kids' Mom, please let me know if there are any changes to the kids' school plans this fall. My current understanding is that SD12 will do Current School remotely and SD14 will do Local High School remotely. Please let me know by next Friday so that I can plan accordingly."

There are just so many moving parts to this. I am almost ready to call Mom's bluff, if she's really into "homeschooling", and be like, Sure, I'll do math and sci, and DH will do logic and classics, because we listened to SD14 and she wants to do stuff in person, not online.

That's what gets me, too... SD14 is all like "I don't want to spend 4 hours a day online", but I don't think she really knows what remote HS will ACTUALLY be like, but she DOES know that this "moms' group" thing is by definition online. She still might be to tender to poke at that, but it's weird. I wonder if she even knows that Mom may be selling her on something she really wants to hear, but that ultimately is what Mom wants, not SD14.

SD14 & DH have counseling in a week, so, fingers crossed there is some talk about school plans there.

Also, local district says that you have 10 days after a withdrawal to register as homeschooling, or your kid will be a truant and is required to show up at the local public school the next day. Food for future thought.

[GaGrl]

My understanding is that homeschooling parents have to register with the local school system. They also may need to register the curriculum that is used (there are a zillion out there, and some are better than others).

You may want to check in with Panda. Her SO's ex took their oldest out of school at age 14 to be homeschooled. Ex then proceeded to do nothing, and no academic progress was made. There must have been progress checkpoints that the children meet, and she had a freshman year academic average of 0.00 GPA. She went back into school and recovered.

Part of me says to let bio mom take on this endeavor and see if she fails miserably, so your DH can get shared custody. But SD14 would be the one having to scramble to make up the work.

The other part of me says for your DH to delve into homeschool requirements in your county, curriculum, progress measures, and then offer assistance for all that fits your strengths (a bit more than astrology, I presume). And yes, have him ask for those bi-weekly reports. Hold bio mom to the reality of her decision. She might not last one semester.

[ForeverDad]

Sorry for not recalling dad doesn't have school decision making.  Too many threads with a myriad of varying circumstances.

Also, local district says that you have 10 days after a withdrawal to register as homeschooling, or your kid will be a truant and is required to show up at the local public school the next day. Food for future thought.

Short term I would keep quiet about the consequences of not registering.  If that puts SD back in school, great.  Less fuss and muss.  I wouldn't enable biomom by helping her be aware of or figure out compliance.  However, I'm not confident the school and authorities would stick to the rules and let her belatedly run around and fix her blunder.

[kells76]

Sorry for not recalling dad doesn't have school decision making.  Too many threads with a myriad of varying circumstances

That's ok -- this is a busy board 

I wouldn't enable biomom by helping her be aware of or figure out compliance.

Yup, no way am I reminding her of deadlines.

My understanding is that homeschooling parents have to register with the local school system. They also may need to register the curriculum that is used (there are a zillion out there, and some are better than others).

Yes on registering as homeschoolers, but no our state doesn't require any curriculum registration -- or recordkeeping, for that matter.

This would be down the road a bit, but I do wonder if DH's NCP right to "inspect and receive school records" would be stymied by Mom not being required to keep any. Although, OTOH, it couldn't look good for her to respond to each request with "I don't have any records".

Did find this in a .edu site:

"Education records" are records that are directly related to a student and that are maintained by an educational agency or institution or a party acting for or on behalf of the agency or institution. These records include but are not limited to grades, transcripts, class lists, student course schedules, health records (at the K-12 level), student financial information (at the postsecondary level), and student discipline files. The information may be recorded in any way, including, but not limited to, handwriting, print, computer media, videotape, audiotape, film, microfilm, microfiche, and e-mail.

Source: 34 CFR § 99.2

...

DH and I talked a bit last night. He had a good insight -- Mom is probably overwhelmed by COVID fears and all the chaos/upheaval/changing messages around school, and whether she is conscious of it or not, can't or doesn't want to cope with managing the kids' education. Recall, the girls have a little brother at Mom's too. So she is probably doing this "let's just unschool this year!" thing not because it's best for the kids, but because it's easiest for HER.

He also said it sounded to him like it was for all the kids, not just SD14. So, SD12, who was due for a SPED assessment this summer, would be pulled out too   

He plans to email Mom sometime this weekend. I wonder now if a conciliatory/cooperative tone would be better for the kids -- something like "What a crazy year it's been. I bet you've been so busy with trying to work at home and help the kids with remote learning. Let's talk together about how school for the kids will look this coming year; we can come up with a plan to level load and ..." not sure after that.

Going back to WSM's goal options:

a) Get custody of the girls or the right to make education decisions - then offer mom a few suggestions and let her completely drop the ball.  You know that SD14 is going to be very far behind at the end of the year, and this plus the fact that this happened before might be enough to get the court to make a change.

b) have SD14 realize more of who mom is - then let SD14 know you offered mom suggestions and let mom drop the ball. 

c) SD14 to actually be educated this year - you and H will have to take over the planning

(a) currently #3 of the 3 goals for DH, though I shared with him that I thought if she doesn't provide records to him, that's a huge red flag for me and doesn't look good for her in terms of documentation. Yes, there is a history of Mom pulling the kids from school to school, and she has said at some time in the past "homeschooling just doesn't work for us" (a.k.a. "homeschooling the kids doesn't work for me", to interpret correctly). So while a lot of the school change data might be "stale", it's also part of a pattern, and the fact that she's still doing this when SD14 is going into HIGH SCHOOL is pretty unsettling.

(b) would be #2 on the goals list.

(c) I think is #1 at this point when we have no further information. Personally I sort of "want" (I mean, not really, but in the "face the truth" kind of way) (b) to happen for SD14, though I think she's not far enough down the road to see that it's Mom who is sabotaging her, versus "why didn't DH help me, why did he leave me to struggle when he knew it was hard". So, it could be a stronger message to the kids if DH and I step in and pick up the educ slack.

...

You need a meme:  Reasonably Normal Parents ... Rule

I know, right?

[worriedStepmom]

Do you and DH have the bandwidth to help with homeschooling given that you can't work from home?

It seems like a lot to be dumped on you, because we know mom can't teach those things.

[kells76]

Do you and DH have the bandwidth to help with homeschooling given that you can't work from home?

I hear you -- been thinking about that, too. My boss knows that the situation with the kids is "high conflict". She has been pretty supportive of flexibility within certain parameters. I do joke that I can't just buy lab equipment on ebay and run tests in the garage... though it would be nice    If I can hit my 40/week I suspect I could rearrange when those 40 hrs happen... but yeah, when 80% of what I do has to be hands on in a lab... I do need to be real about that.

Last school year I put in about 1 hour per weekday for ~3 months with SD14 for math. That was doable with my work schedule. It would take some major reorg to do more, though part of me wants to "call Mom's bluff" by seeing what DH and I could viably do schedule-wise and proposing taking over that % of homeschool. I.e., if we can free up 2 hours per day somehow, then picking up the kids for those 2 hours of school every day. I mean, it's a total reach, but it would also be Mom's to reject.

[GaGrl]

As to the scheduling, one of the advantages of homeschooling is that the classes don't need to happen for the same length of time every day. Many high schools have moved to schedules more like colleges -- so maybe math is three days a week for two hours per class.

[kells76]

As to the scheduling, one of the advantages of homeschooling is that the classes don't need to happen for the same length of time every day

Right... I think this is pointing to a "call her bluff" strategy -- if what Mom says she wants is to just do what the kids want, and SD14 says "I don't want to spend 4 hours a day online", then any solution that gives SD14 in person learning should be acceptable. And if school time doesn't "count" as parenting time, then "it shouldn't matter" who does the education... right?

It might be a lot of "wait and see" until after DH emails Mom and she writes back.

[kells76]

DH sent this yesterday -- did a good job keeping it super BIFF:

Hi Kids' Mom;
Just wondering if you have any new plans for the girls with regard to their schooling this year?
Thanks,
DH

He'd wanted to ask how she planned to make sure SD14 stayed on track to reenter HS as a sophomore, and what she planned to do about the fact that SD12 had a SPED assessment a few months ago and needs some specific supports. But good job DH -- kept the target small on first email. Now work is on Mom to reply. We'll see what she does. I anticipate delay and stonewalling.

[kells76]

Just documenting that it's been 5 days and no email from Mom. She hasn't even tried to engage about this in person. Posting here to remind myself.

[Notwendy]

All this conflict seems like a triangle with BPD mom playing out her victim role, making you and DH the persecuters and dumping the rescue role on a 14 year old.

You and DH seem to be constantly on the defensive against parental alienation, trying to predict BPD mom's next move, and mitigate it in your and SD 14 favor- mainly for her sake but also so you two aren't seen by the kids the way BPD mom frames you.

I wish I had some better advice, but I recognize this kind of triangle as I also grew up in it.

I also found it to be an impossible task- trying to outwit BPD mom's next strategy in order to preserve my own image in my father's eyes and BPD mom's family. I was in a way struggling on the other side of the parental alienation- I wanted my father to see me as the good ( not perfect but good) kid I was, not the persecuter kid BPD mom presents me as.

But I couldn't compete with her, because we don't "play" by the same rules. And because she has a disorder and this impacts how she sees things.

You and your H have what I call "traditional values" and this includes a set of ethical principles. This is how I was raised too, but there's a loophole for BPD mom. When she truly believes she is in victim mode, she goes into fight mode and in fight mode anything she does is justified- this includes lying and making up things and doing sneaky and mean things in "return" for what she thinks is being done to her ( when it isn't).

This kind of behavior is against my own ethics, and since I don't have a mental disorder, I don't see things her way, and so I don't "fight back" like she does. The lies and manipulations continue no matter what I do to prove "I am being a good kid" to her or others.

It seems there is a constant stream of this kind of craziness from BPD mom and your family, with SD 14 being put in the middle of both your world and BPD mom's world. It's similar with my mother. You either believe she's right or I am. You can't believe both "realities" and BPD mom is very convincing.

Sadly though, in the middle of this are your stepchildren and they are minors. I wish I had more advice for you, but maybe the only one is- do things your way at your house, BPD mom does things her way. As long as BPD mom has custody and makes the school decisions, there's not a whole lot you can do. Neglect to the point of disputing custody has to be really severe, not just crazy. I think it's sad that this impacts the kids. I also think you two are doing a great job of "normal and reasonable". I got this in part from visiting my Dad's family and the parents of some of my friends. I am not sure there's much else you can do. But perhaps recognizing this triangle might divert attention from "what is BPD mom up to" to "what is the best we can do" and decrease the stress on you and your H.

[kells76]

Original message from DH was Aug 23rd. He emailed again on Aug 31st basically asking the same thing: is the plan to keep kids enrolled in local schools this year.

I asked DH what his goals around this (per WSM's post) were and he got pretty activated and intense. He apologized later. His goals are mostly (c) SD14 to actually be educated this year and some long term of (a) -- document what's going on. I don't think he wants to use the documentation but he is at least open to having it.

A coworker in a similar situation mentioned to me that she would tell her teen stepson "here's a list of the things I can help you with: finding curriculum, grading homeschool HW, checking in with the local HS about staying on track, etc. Let me know if or when you want me to help with these things." So for SD14 at least, that might be a good idea, and kind of melded with goal (b) of letting SD14 see that Mom is dropping the ball and DH and I are picking things up.

Finally on Sep 2nd she wrote back this:

Hi DH
So far our 'plan' is to do some sort of hybrid learning. Remaining enrolled at SD12's School for SD12 is paramount because if she is un-enrolled for this first quarter, that has been confirmed now to be all distanced learning, she would have to enter the lottery again to go back to school and I don't think that makes sense. I signed up for a teacher conference with Teacher for tomorrow at 1pm to discuss what this could look like. I'm thinking we will facilitate her watching the video lessons in LA and Math especially and make sure she is up on those subjects. We are setting up a full work space in our basement so that she will have a desk and all of her supplies for a 3 hour work period each morning. We plan to school this way Monday-Thursday and take Fridays off... We are also planning some day trips to water (river/lake/ocean) in this first month of school to keep the body and mind fresh while it is still in the process of learning online.
SD14 is currently still enrolled through District at Local HS. She has asked for us to take her out completely and to homeschool for this 9th grade year. I am inclined to do this and set up a program that allows her to self study. She would work during the same work period time we are all working each morning and manage math through an online program (still figuring this out) and hoping maybe kells76 would be interested in continuing to tutor her in Math based on her online program. She will keep up Spanish with Super Close Family Friend and we are working on a schedule with our friend (and public school teacher) [Name] about teaching all the kids coding and animation. This we would keep up even after covid lifts and the in person education options are available. She would start at Local HS next September as a 10th grader. She will have to make up some credits but after looking into it this wouldn't be too difficult to do and as SD14 is a very competent independent worker I don't have concern that she will catch up in the following three years or less if she decides to fast track into community college.
Stepdad is going to take a partial leave with work and help with homeschooling (facilitating the younger two) a couple of days a week so that I am able to continue to work. 
This is the tentative plan for now. With how rapidly things change I do not want to set anything in stone. This is going to be new for all of us and I am optimistic we can find a good working flow but it will take time and adjustments I'm sure.
Thanks for your patience. It hasn't been an easy transition with covid affecting so many aspects of our normal existence and I have wanted to be slow and intentional with our choices. 

Mom's Nickname

[kells76]

Couple of things.

Mom has not asked me directly to help with math. I'm fine with it but debating whether I want a condition to be that she asks me directly. IDK if that's worth it, but I also don't want to participate in all this covert, hinting, indirect, "make sure you tell him to tell her about X" stuff.

Both the family friends who Mom wants to help out 110% share Mom's ideologies. They aren't just "neutral friends" or "happens to be a public school teacher" -- they're both deep into Mom's world.

Mom makes no mention of SD12's SPED assessment meeting or followup, and I haven't seen any followup emails or results. DH is concerned about this.

She has asked for us to take her out completely and to homeschool for this 9th grade year.

. Once again the structure of the communication is "the kids tell ME what they want and that is EXACTLY what they want and they would NEVER tell me stuff just because I want to hear it"

as SD14 is a very competent independent worker I don't have concern that she will catch up in the following three years or less

. This is also concerning. There's a feel of "not my problem if SD14 doesn't succeed" going on.

No mention of astrology lessons coming from Mom's email, though both the kids have brought it up to DH.

DH's parenting time starts at noon on Fridays, though he's been doing 1pm due to the kids' former early release days in previous school years.

...

DH wants to reply today and share his concerns. I don't anticipate his concerns making any impact on Mom's choices -- I think it'd just be to get a paper trail.

I think I have some leverage in being the ONLY adult involved who could help SD14 with math for the rest of her schooling. Not sure if/how to use that leverage.

And of course, another "thing" in play is helping DH "reclaim his power" as it were. Figure out what he CAN do. It's easy for him to get stuck in "I can't do this, I can't do that, I have no right to X, courts would never go for Y" type stuff.

Any thoughts?

[kells76]

Oh, and it just hit me:

In Mom's plan:
There's a role for Mom.
There's a role for Stepdad.
There's even a role for me! 
Guess who doesn't have a role.

[worriedStepmom]

I would bring up an immediate concern that they are already planning for SD14 to be behind in 10th grade.  Which credits do they anticipate she will be behind? What can be done for her to get those credits THIS YEAR and not have to play catch-up later?  What does the school think about this - can she even be classified as a 10th grader in a year without those credits?

I would seriously question the wisdom of planning a substandard education off the bat.

[Catsmother]

And if mum is expecting to have Fridays off so that they can do day trips to the water, will that have an impact on DH picking the girls up at the commencement of their time with him?

[JNChell]

Sounds like an alienation attempt. How’s the relationship with the kids? Any worries? From what I’ve read, you and DH have this down. NPD mom wants resistance. She gives two PLEASE READs about her kids. That’s meant to say because she does love them, just in a very  up way.

Narcissists don’t care about our kids like you and I. Narcs care about appearances when it comes to stuff like this. If she has control and decision making over this, hopefully the child will learn something if mom leaves her alone. The kids are behind in school. Is that for court as well?

[kells76]

WSM, thanks, that was helpful to roll into DH's reply email. Our C recommended staying positive and kid-focused in the email, vs focusing on Mom's crazy plans. So, this is what DH sent:

Hi Kids' Mom;
Thanks for your email, I had hoped to respond earlier, but things have been a little crazy lately [kells76 note: we are west coast, and things are on fire]! I can empathize with SD14 and SD12 wanting face to face learning. I really want to see them set up to succeed-however this next year looks.
 Is SD12 still on track for getting her learning aids in place through District?
I am concerned that it looks like the plan for SD14 is to have her enter 10th grade behind. Knowing SD14 , that will be a lot of stress and anxiety on her shoulders. How can we support her and help her stay on track?
Please reach out to kells76 directly about math, she’d love to share ideas with you.
Thanks,
DH

and this is what we got back:

DH;
Per our conversation today:
SD12 will receive IEP services after further evaluation which will begin a few weeks into school starting.
I’ll be in contact kells76, with you directly, about support with Math especially for SD14 but possibly for both kids if this is something you are open to.
-Mom's Nickname

Well, OK then. No touching the issue of planning that SD14 be behind.

And if mum is expecting to have Fridays off so that they can do day trips to the water, will that have an impact on DH picking the girls up at the commencement of their time with him?

Catsmother, I pointed that out to DH and encouraged him to "delightedly thank" the kids mom for reminding him that she plans to do no work on Fridays, so he'll pick up the kids at the usual time. He hasn't yet so we will see what happens. I guess I am not interested in facilitating her entitlement to DH's time.

Sounds like an alienation attempt. How’s the relationship with the kids? Any worries? From what I’ve read, you and DH have this down.

With SD14 things are a LOT better. She is much more attached, affectionate, loving with DH than ever before, even with some head butting about values/beliefs. She sometimes is a verbal processor and recently has been letting stuff slip like "well I could stay another night here if I wanted to" or "if I lived here instead". It has pivoted to trickier with SD12 who is pretty enmeshed with Stepdad. When she's not thinking about him/Mom then she is pretty "in the moment" and enjoys time with DH and at our place. We have better pets    and she's an animal lover. But transitions back to Mom's -- she's mentally gone way before she gets picked up. That's hard.

NPD mom wants resistance.

And so DH did a good job of jiu-jitsuing away from feeding her what she wanted. It's amazing, I had the realization the other day in T that even the emails "about the kids" from her are really about her. She thrives on conflict and so any engagement with the crazy content just feeds her needs and takes all the energy away from the kids. Yeah, she wants a fight, so when DH didn't give her one... amazing how short her emails get.

If she has control and decision making over this, hopefully the child will learn something

Although that's not our #1 goal in this (#1 is still helping them succeed), part of me hopes it happens soon. Or, I guess, at an age where the kids can process what's true.

[worriedStepmom]

Is he going to push about SD14 being behind?

[kells76]

We'll talk today or tomorrow about next steps. We had something else on the to-do list that fell through and opened up evening time, and fires kicked the start of school back a week, so we have some "breathing" room figuratively. Plus we have a T appt in a week or so, so DH has that to lean on soon. Hoping all these things coming together help him feel like he is strong enough to keep pushing back. He did say the phrase "advocating for my kids" the other week so that is good.

[worriedStepmom]

It's a good opportunity for him to carve a role for himself, if he wants - to insist that he gets a list of what credits she will/won't have, and to help SD14 find a way to get some of the missing ones.  Surely there are some that he could help teach/coordinate, whatever.

[JNChell]

I’m just now entering the court system and how unreasonable these folks can be. Purposely trying to hold a child back is a new level.

NPD mom wants resistance. Yeah. A petulant child on a playground. I have no advice. You’re deeper in this than I am. At what point does a dumb damn judge recognize a pattern? At what point does the other side’s attorney “see” and “counsel” for the best interests of the child? Unfortunately, it’s a win/lose competition. Even worse, some lawyers see these situations as honey pots. They draw them out. The narcissist knows this. They’ve latched on to everything that they can that will benefit them. That’s how they get by.

Moms will rotate every 30 minutes? That’s cultish thinking. God, I feel so much for the kids that are stuck in the middle of this BS. We just want to be parents and supportive.

[kells76]

It's a good opportunity for him to carve a role for himself, if he wants - to insist that he gets a list of what credits she will/won't have, and to help SD14 find a way to get some of the missing ones.  Surely there are some that he could help teach/coordinate, whatever.

Yes -- things are turning in that direction. Our T encouraged him to do some "due diligence" about what SD14 would need to be on track at the end of 9th grade/start of 10th, and suggested he reach out to a mutual friend who is a teacher. DH had that on his to do list the other day. So I am hopeful that this is a new opportunity for him to be assertive and advocate for the kids, knowing he is in a position of strength, instead of being afraid that he will be "punished" by Mom (via her manipulation of the kids) for "interfering".

Purposely trying to hold a child back is a new level... NPD mom wants resistance.

And of course she's framing it as "what SD14 wants". Though literally TODAY we are still getting emails from the local HS as if SD14 is enrolled. School starts Monday.

I suspect Mom is realizing how much work it would be, and all the flowery "free learning, escape to the lake, my online friends will teach" ideas aren't happening and/or even those take... work. And it's too much for her -- which, OK, that's fine, it IS a lot. I agree. That is a lot. Plus we weren't far from a wildfire evacuation zone... stressful for anyone.

But she isn't asking for help, she isn't coordinating with me or DH, she's shutting down DH... so it's all on her if "SD REALLY wanted to be homeschooled" and ends up in public school.

Anyway...

Got this email about a week ago:

DH;
Per our conversation today:
SD12 will receive IEP services after further evaluation which will begin a few weeks into school starting.
I’ll be in contact kells76, with you directly, about support with Math especially for SD14 but possibly for both kids if this is something you are open to.
Mom's Nickname

I haven't heard anything from Mom about math coordination, and right now, the way I see it, it "needs" to be her initiating that so I don't overfunction.

DH replied yesterday:

Hi Kids' Mom;
Glad to hear SD12 is on track to receive the help she needs. I’m sure you are aware that SD14 will need to be unenrolled from Local HS if she is going a different route this next year. However, since she is still enrolled at present, have you considered having SD14 do the freshman orientation that is coming up? That could give you all good information with respect to the choices you are considering for the coming school year.
kells76 looks forward to hearing from you.
Thanks,
DH

Frosh orientation is going on right now online, so we will see later today if SD14 did it. I mean, the way I see it, better to do all that stuff, and then unenroll later if you want, then don't do it "because we're sure we'll do homeschooling" and then that doesn't work and you're starting way behind. But telling Mom that would not help anything.

...

So, that's where we're at. DH senses that Mom's curt replies are to "teach" him to "stay out of it"... good job DH for "playing it dumb" and engaging for the kids. So far so good.

My question is what I alluded to above: I really don't want to (a) overfunction for Mom by reminding her to talk to me about math stuff for the kids. So far I am doing great at not doing her job. But I also really don't want to (b) coordinate this through the kids.

So, if Mom doesn't work with me, but SD14 (especially) asks me to help her... what are your thoughts on how to give the kids what they need (math support) without making a triangle, or me covering for Mom?

[JNChell]

They will put more on their plate than they can chew just to make a point and exorcise control, then shovel the leftovers. This control thing just baffles the  out of me. What about the child?

Classic. Say that it’s what the child wants. No responsibility taken, and damaging the mind of an adolescent. Golf clap.

You and DH have your ducks in a row. This is just another unfortunate mind  by SD14’s mom. I know that it’s infuriating and exhausting. Hang in like you always have. Everything is going to be alright. Good job, BTW.