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Author Topic: I'm back and struggling a little  (Read 1450 times)
Carguy
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« on: January 04, 2021, 09:23:30 PM »

Hey guys, I'm back on this board from bettering.

5 years together with ex BPD with quite a few recycles. The last breakup lasted 9 months and last August we got back together. Things were going better than they had previously but eventually devaluation and then she breaks up with me again.

When we started talking again in August she friended me on Facebook. It had been a while since we are friends on there. At one point she even blocked me for a year-and-a-half on there. Eventually I noticed this guy kept clicking hearts and commenting on her things. It was quite obvious he was chasing after her. I didn't say anything to her but her and I were tagging each other and saying I love you and she was sharing memory pictures of us and all sorts of things. Quite obvious we were together. This guy knew.

Eventually she tells me this guy is flirting with her and she deletes him as a friend. He sends her a few friend request and it annoys her. She tells me he came through her checkout line at Walmart that she works and she told him that if it didn't work out between her and I that she would not get with him.

In November she gets upset with me and tells me we need to take a break. She still wants to spend Thanksgiving together. We spend it together and it feels like we were back together. Cuddling, sex, texting each other daily and the I love yous.

A week and a half later she start acting quiet, not responding to I love you, Etc. I start questioning. When she finally tells me she tells me that it bothers her we are pretending to be together when we're not. She tells me we are not together.

A week after that the guy that was chasing her on Facebook is hanging out with her at her apartment now. Apparently she is seeing him. I'm hurt and angry and let her know. Then I block her on Facebook for the first time and unfollow her on another app we use. She is angry at me for this.

A few weeks later I find out this guy is a convicted child molester. Now I am quite concerned for her 8 year old and 10 year old children. I stopped by her apartment and asked if we can talk. She says yes and invites me in. She is actually pretty decent. I tell her my concern and she tells me she knows. He told her. Okay, I just wanted to make sure she knew. The conversation ends up in our relationship and of course it's all my fault as always. A few times she makes the comment even if her and this other guy were together... I guess her way of telling me they aren't. Not sure what her point a saying this is. Even if they're not together it's obvious they are seeing each other. Maybe so I don't walk completely away in case it doesn't work out with him?

One kind of odd thing though. My ex-wife and I are quite good friends. When my ex BPD and I got together years ago my ex-wife was very accepting of her. It looked like they would get along great. Over the years their relationship fell apart. Recently the relationship between my ex BPD and my younger son fell apart as well. Up to now they had a great relationship. When she tells me that we are not together she does tell me that she still wants to fix the relationship between her and my ex-wife and her and my son. Okay, whatever. Now she is with this guy and I'm out of the picture but yet the other day my ex-wife was surprised and a little annoyed and shows me the message my ex BPD sent her. My ex BPD said that even though her and I are not together that she would like to work on her relationship with my ex-wife. She said that she still cares about them. What is the point of building a relationship with my family now when you are with someone else and we're not together? The only thing I can think is what somebody told me once. They do things like this to keep some sort of a connection with you. An indirect connection but a connection.

At this point however, I am very angry at her and this guy. I feel like she lied to me and left me for this guy and this guy I feel is no better than the guy that my ex-wife cheated on me with and left me for. I am also very hurt. I really doubt things will last between them very long. With the exception of her second marriage and me, the relationships of hers that I do know about have not lasted very long. Anywhere from one month to 7 months. On top of that if the kids' father finds out about this guy's past he will have her in court trying to get those kids. Being with her for 5 years and knowing him I believe that 100%.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2021, 09:29:33 PM by Carguy » Logged
grumpydonut
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2021, 12:25:46 AM »

Hey Carguy,

Sorry to read what you're going through. Doesn't sound very enjoyable at all. That said, how can we help? Your post makes it sound like you're not entirely sure what you want? If you're here simply to get it off your chest, I'm here to read Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2021, 08:25:51 AM »

Hi GD and thanks. It's Hell.

I guess I am kind of struggling with what I want. Right now I think I just need distance from her. I hurt. My post was getting things off my chest and some of it looking for answers, opinions, or something to verify if the answers that I have to my questions are correct and logical or not so I can better understand what is going on and know how to handle and react to it. I'm also just looking for some moral support.
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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2021, 08:50:10 AM »

Carguy, I am really sorry to hear all that...I am going thru a different, but similar tragic ending (an ending for me I mean, not you as things might be up in the air as to what you want) as well...you are not alone...be glad to listen to anything you might want to say out here to help provide moral support. 
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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2021, 09:50:49 AM »

Hello Carguy,

I remember reading your posts last summer. At that time, you and your ex had broken up and were really not communicating unless you ran into her at the store she worked at. I'm sorry to hear that this has happened to you again, but it sounds like behavior straight out of the BPD playbook.

I agree that it's odd that your ex wants to repair her relationship with your ex-wife and also with your son. From my personal experience, pwBPD struggle in all relationships no matter if they are romantic in nature, with friends, co-workers, or family members. My BPD ex-wife can't maintain a healthy relationship with anyone. It sounds like your ex-g/f is the same way. The same can be said for my uBPD ex-g/f, only her BPD traits weren't as bad as my ex-wife (ex-wife had strong Narc traits well).

Also, I've learned through counseling and in this forum that pwBPD love attention and can't get enough hosts/attachments. The more the merrier and all are invited to play as they say.  Most of us can only take so much and have to get off of the rollercoaster. Your ex-wife and son are attachments in a sense for your ex-g/f.

I have to maintain some degree of contact with my ex-wife, as we have a child together. If it weren't for that, I would go NC completely with her. Sadly, nothing good or healthy ever comes out of having any contact with her.  However, I've set better boundaries with her over the years. When I do reply to her, it's always short, to the point, and very matter of fact. If I stray from that, usually her BPD is triggered, and I get all kinds of nonsensical, irrational correspondence from her. When she gets in that frame of mind, I just ignore, ignore, ignore. My ex-g/f and I split last April. I went NC with her in May but started hearing from her again in September through December. There was a brief in person visit from her around the middle of November. I got the distinct impression that she was feeling me out each time. It seems like they all do this at one time or another, most of the time when you least expect it. Luckily I was able to stay semi-strong and just be very matter of fact with her. Sometimes I didn't even reply or acknowledge her at all. However, this contact from her did trigger my emotions, and the ruminations started again. I still miss her terribly some days, but I do not miss the unhealthy parts of the relationship.  It's been about 3 weeks since I last heard from her. I've been feeling a lot better over the last several days.

Stay strong and take care of yourself.







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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2021, 01:46:44 PM »

Hey Carguy, Only you know when it's time to get off the roller coaster.  If you're unsure, I suggest you listen to your gut feelings.  Are you ready to detach, or are you hoping for a recycle?  You call the shots, my friend.  Most of us on this Board are a pretty jaded bunch, because we've been though the BPD wringer.  I'm sorry to hear what you are going through.  Try to find the best path for You.

LuckyJim
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Carguy
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2021, 10:14:16 AM »

Thanks guys. I've always found it helps me to talk to others who understand BPD and have been there. Reading other stories helps a lot too. When I'm reading their stories a lot of times it is exactly what she's been doing. Some of the things I read even bring up memories of things she did that I forgot about.

Cash,

 I'm sorry that you are going through the same thing. It's hard for all of us. Thank you so much for the support.

Brighter Future,

Last Summer she was more angry at me then she had ever been. I really didn't know if she would ever talk to me again. Finally in August when I went into the store and seen her I asked her if we could talk. Previous to that I had been 2 months completely off the radar. I just disappeared and she didn't see or hear from me at all. That seemed to give her time to miss me a little or something. We talked and immediately she wanted to be back with me. She even told me that seeing me she realized that she still loved me after she had been trying to completely erase everything of me out of her life. This time I don't think she is so angry. She was when I got upset at her and blocked her but we talked a little less than a week ago when I went to warn her about this guy and she didn't seem too upset. I don't think she is quite so hateful this time.

It is odd. I have noticed in the five years with her that she does struggle with all relationships. When we first got together she had a female best friend. Shortly after we got together they had a falling out. She told me some of what happened and I didn't want to take sides but to me it seems like a lot of it was her. In the five years we were together she didn't have a best friend. She hung out with a girlfriend maybe twice during the five years. Last summer when we went apart for 9 months she found another female best friend. They must have had a falling-out because she is nowhere around anymore. I've also noticed she struggles with co-workers. In the five years we were together she changed jobs three different times because she couldn't get along with coworkers and she is back at Walmart and when they moved her to Pharmacy recently she was struggling there with co-workers. The only family she has here is her father and they are not on speaking terms either.

Mine has some pretty strong narcissistic traits as well. A year-and-a-half into our relationship when the narcissism started really coming out it was really confusing. I have never been with someone that's narcissistic like that. I couldn't understand what was going on. It took me doing some research to figure out the narcissism. It wasn't until I started talking to a therapist that he pointed out it was BPD.

I think you're right on loving attention. I think hers may be a little more subtle but she is very friendly to a lot of people and always asking how they are doing and giving them hugs and going out of her way to say hi to them. None of them are close friend. I always thought it was very sweet of her and that she was very caring. I think she is but I wonder if some of it is the attention she receives as well? She also does Suicide Prevention videos on her Facebook and also has recently started posting them to Tik Tok and YouTube. I think it's awesome she does this with somebody pointed out that that might be for attention as well. I don't know. I also have to question if she really is interested in this guy for a relationship or if she is just enjoying the attention. When we were together he was showering her with attention on Facebook and she was acting annoyed by it. I'm sure he is showering her now as well. The other day she kept saying even if they were together... apparently telling me that they aren't. I'm surprised she is spending time with him given his history and her having kid. If the kid's father found out she has to know that I would cause problems for herself. Also what kind of future could they have? From what I have found out the laws in our state say if the victim was under 14 (the person was) then she has to sign a permission slip for him to be around her kids for each occurrence that he is. I doubt they would do that but what if her kids friends want to come over? He also can't go to a public park, public playground, public swimming pool, schools, or daycares. What kind of life would that be for her or her kids? I'm sure she had to thought about all this. This is why I wonder if she is just enjoying the attention. He's doing all the trying and she's just enjoying it maybe?

I really do think my wife and son are attachments. Last summer during those night months apart she did some unusual things like that as well. She was so angry at me but yet sent my son a friend request on Facebook. She did some other things too. I asked an online counselor who specializes in NPD and BPD and she said that is a way for her to keep some kind of connection. She said they would rather have a messed up, dysfunctional connection to you then no connection at all. It kind of make sense to me.

As far as her contacting me, just going off of our past I think it would have to be me that initiated contact. It seems like 98% of the time in our history I'm the one that had to initiate it. She won't. That being said I think I need to just stay away and and not talk to her for a while and see where I am after a bit.

It's interesting how no matter where at in the world they are they seem to play from the same Playbook. Even the therapist I talk to online said that.

Lucky Jim,

Thank you. I think I need to just stay away for awhile and then evaluate where I'm at. Emotions are still raw and fresh right now.
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2021, 10:17:10 AM »

Hey Carguy, I think you are wise to wait and let the water clear before determining your next move.  In the meantime, suggest you be kind to yourself.  LJ
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2021, 01:00:10 PM »

Hi Carguy

Good to hear from you, if you remember we talked before, i can recall a little about when the previous split up and she saw you at the car show?

We tried to figure it out, can I ask if you ever made sense of that time, was she trying to make you jealous or get attention? Im interested because there's some of it now again, confusing behavior.

The last thing about your own emotions, being raw and fresh. There's anger, some for her some for the guy she's hanging around with.

I wanted to ask if there's any guilt? How do you feel about chasing her/waiting for her, when it's clearly a relationship that has brought with it a lot of grief, upset, anger and distress.
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Carguy
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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2021, 08:50:07 PM »

Thanks LJ.

Hi Cromwell. Good to hear from you too.

I'm pretty sure that the car show was both. Making me jealous by flaunting the other guy and for attention. Maybe even to see if I would start chasing her again? The interesting thing is, when we started talking again in August and catching up on what each of us had been up to over the nine-month period that we were apart she told me that she was in a pin-up girl contest at the car show. The way she was telling me was like she was unaware I was there. I know she seen me though. Maybe she thought I didn't see her. You think some of this confusing behavior is possibly for attention?

Another confusing thing she did the other day was during my lunch break. I went through the drive-through at Burger King and turned left around the building and went over and parked in the parking lot by our Main Street. While eating I looked up and she had drove by. She continued down the street and turned at Walmart a few blocks down. A minute later I looked out the side window of my car a little back and she had taken one of the side streets back over to Burger King coming through a petroleum company's parking lot across the intersecting Street from me. She got in the Drive-Thru line and I finished eating and left. As I drove down the street I could see she was getting ready to come around the building where she would drive behind where I was parked instead of turning to the right and going out on the next street over. This was before we talked the other day.

You are right. I feel anger towards her and even more anger toward the guy. A lot of the reason I feel anger towards him is because he was chasing after her on Facebook and going in the store and flirting  with her even though he knew we were together. It brings up a lot of old emotions from when my ex-wife cheated on me with a guy that was doing the same thing and then left me for him.

As far as guilt, I'm not really sure. I guess I've never really thought about my guilt. I will be honest, I have stalked her a little online and drove by her apartment a time or two in the past. It always made me feel a little guilty. As far as chasing and waiting for her when the relationship has brought me these things, it has been weighing heavy on my mind. My heart misses her and if I'm honest really wants her to chase me and make me feel wanted but my head remembers the hurt and stress.
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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2021, 09:30:22 PM »

Hey Carguy,

Excerpt
Previous to that I had been 2 months completely off the radar. I just disappeared and she didn't see or hear from me at all. That seemed to give her time to miss me a little or something.

I’m remember your posts. I want to add to what you said here the time that you spent apart asking gave her to get over the negative feelings about you. Right after you stopped seeing other her feelings were probably 100% negative and a month passed now they’re at 80% negative but some of the positive feelings are starting to come back.

Excerpt
We talked and immediately she wanted to be back with me.

You gave her enough time and didn’t chase her. There were more good thoughts and feelings about you than negative ones and that worked for you.

Excerpt
As far as chasing and waiting for her when the relationship has brought me these things, it has been weighing heavy on my mind. My heart misses her and if I'm honest really wants her to chase me and make me feel wanted but my head remembers the hurt and stress.

There’s a pattern that’s been established with you for five years and it’s probably something that you’ve both become accustomed to. You understand that she’s not going to chase you - you can read her well with this behavior.

On the one hand if you chase her now she’s going to have the attention of two guys. It’s going to inflate her ego a little bit right?

She’s also going to be in control.

What I would do is think about your values. How does it sit with me when my gf is being chased by other guys? What is my boundary?

Let’s say hypothetically you got back together set your boundaries at the beginning of the r/s and say if there’s someone else while we’re together  - it’s finished full stop.

If she’s thinking about getting out the r/s and wanting to test other r/s and she knows what the consequences are then she might think more carefully about it. Maybe she was impulsive but if there are consequences to her choices and you stick to the ground rules then either she’ll come back to you or it’s really going to be over.

The behaviors that are consequently having a negative affect on your r/s stop or you’ll find someone that will respect you. The pay off might be sooner or it will be later but things will eventually improve in your r/s’s.

That being said, at least you’ll feel respect and feel like you have self respect.

I think and maybe other will say differently but I don’t think she was done with the r/s maybe she wasn’t ready to come back to a fully committed r/s - I would suggest to ignore that but just tell her that you’re done if there’s someone else.

Think about you want out this r/s with her but be centered if you get back together and follow through with your boundaries if she disrespects them.

If she’s trying to stay friends with you I agree I agree with what the other poster said. I don’t think she’s ready to let you go but I think there’s an pattern that’s established you know she’s going to act and she probably knows your pattern as well. Nothing changes without change.

If she has two guys chasing her it’s going to go to her head a little bit.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 09:37:27 PM by Mutt » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2021, 12:02:21 PM »

Carguy, sounds like the guy is getting the blame mostly.

Be careful when upset and going for emotional drives. Google maps isn't stalking, you are not a stalker. It's emotional turbulence and you've proven that it passes eventually.

 want her to chase you, had 9 months apart, still to ask to clarify, do you need her to chase you?
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« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2021, 03:12:14 PM »

Carguy...let it go...there is no point really...not for self...we can analyze everything to death over their slightest moves...let it go...sounds like you are in an ok place after time off...leave it that way...memory is a good thing, but the real point is being able to forget and move on...
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« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2021, 11:24:49 PM »

Hey Mutt, good to hear from you again.

I remember you telling me about how over time she would have fewer and fewer negative feelings and more positive feelings towards me. When I started talking to her again in August I could see how right you were!

This time while we were together it was actually better than it had been in a long time. We were communicating better and working through things. Unfortunately she became upset with me over what I feel was a misunderstanding and ended it.

There is a pattern for sure. Other than a week ago when I talked to her I have tried to keep a distance. I didn't think about two guys chasing her and it inflating her ego. I can very much see that happening though. Even more reason to stay away and not chase. I didn't think about it from the idea of it putting her in control either. That is a very good point.

I agree with you on setting boundaries if I was to hypothetically get back together with her. I'm not sure yet if I would but if that were to happen I think that is important at this point. To me I feel like if she wanted to come back and after her and I talked and if i agreed to take her back, I feel like I would have to tell her that either this guy is completely out of the picture or I am. And if she decides there is another relationship that she want to jump out of ours to see where it goes then that's it. I went through this three times with my ex-wife. The third time I was done and filed for a divorce. I'm not doing it again.

When you say that you don't think she was done with the relationship are you talking about last summer or now?

She wanted to be friends but then the one day that I stopped by her apartment and that guy was there, that night I took the things she gave me back and told her I felt like I was lied to and betrayed and that things were different between us. She was quite angry after that.  A week ago when we talked I told her maybe I overreacted and she said I did. I told her that I felt like she had left me for this other guy and it brought up a lot of stuff from my marriage. By the time I left I felt like the conversation went ok. I don't know if she still feels angry towards me or not. I still have her blocked on Facebook so that might strike a nerve with her. I don't know. As far as her wanting to be friends or not being ready to let me go yet, I'm not sure at this point because I have been staying away and haven't talked to her since.

Cromwell,

I can see i am putting a lot of blame on him. Like I said, I know it comes from my past when this neighbor was chasing after my wife and broke up our marriage. This guy knew she was dating me and he was chasing her. It really angers me. I do realize that it's her as well.

It will pass. I think that is why it is important for me to stay away and heal. Maybe then I can think a little more clear. Tonight on the way home I could feel myself trying to reason with myself. I was thinking that I needed to stop and get a few groceries before I went home. In my mind I knew it was a reason to go in and see her. I caught myself however and didn't. I just went home.

Truth be told I don't need her to chase me. There is a want though. I think a lot of that is because she so easily breaks up with me (rejection) that in my mind it would make me feel like I do mean something to her. I guess I'm really wanting some validation that she misses me.

Cash,

My therapist pointed out today that I needed to focus less on her and more on my own actions. That's the only thing I can control. I struggle with ruminating about her but I have found with time and space that fades. At the beginning  though it does seem to sooth me to talk about it. I think for me seeking the validation of others who have been there and understand, that what I have noticed, seen, and/or questioned is valid and likely true or not helps me feel better. To know if I am reading it right or wrong. It also helps when others point things out i might not have seen. It helps me with understanding in healing and reacting to her. I am very appreciative to everyone for this. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2021, 10:04:48 AM »

It’s good to hear from you again  Smiling (click to insert in post)

My current gf was friend zoning me there wasn’t anyone else and I had to think about what needed work from my side of the fence and it was tough to stand up to her.

Think of it this way if you don’t stand up to her then how are you going to stick up for her? Women pick up on that. I’ve been with my current for three years and she hasn’t friend zoned me since I told her that if it happens again we’re done. It wasn’t happened since I told her in January of 2019. - I broke with her for a few weeks. That gave her time to think about what she wants and I told her that if we’re getting back together I’m not interested in just being friends.

Every situation is different - yours, mine and everyone in this thread. It sounds like I hear a value here:

Excerpt
I went through this three times with my ex-wife. The third time I was done and filed for a divorce. I'm not doing it again.

This is really tough but in the end isn’t it better to be synchronized with your true self? An option could be and I know that is tough but you could give yourself time to think about what to do and think about your values and what is lining up for you and want isn’t lining up for you and retool some of your values.

If you decide to get back together then set your boundaries right at the beginning and it’s not say that they are not going get tested - defend your boundaries and eventually either she’ll respect them but if she doesn’t respect them then in the long run you’ll feel better having synchronized with your true self.

I think most people will agree here that she hasn’t closed the door on this r/s. Let it be that’s her choice and it doesn’t affect you if you decide that you don’t want to back then if she chose to leave the door open a crack then it doesn’t affect you.

You know that you are a significant attachment to her if you have this history together she doesn’t want to let go yet. This hasn’t happened with the other guy he’s not the same significance.

If you chase her I don’t think it’s going to work in your favor  - if you want to get back together possibly down the road and you’re not sure the best thing to do is take this time to think about your values, what you can retool and invest in yourself with self care.

I completely understand being angry - anger can give you the empowerment to change your situation but if there is a possibility that you want to get back you don’t want to damage the r/s further and if she’s not ready for a r/s just ignore it that’s just the she is.

My advice is if you want to have a r/s with her don’t talk about a r/s because you’re going to make it feel like you’re wanting to lock her down into a r/s don’t make it feel that way - make things lights. You’re job is you’re conductor of the fun bus make things fun and relaxing just go with the flow.. Give the r/s part time.

Excerpt
I still have her blocked on Facebook so that might strike a nerve with her. I don't know. As far as her wanting to be friends or not being ready to let me go yet, I'm not sure at this point because I have been staying away and haven't talked to her since.

With FB it was reactionary it’s ok you can also unblock her and just leave it at that.
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« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2021, 04:52:38 PM »

I guess I'm really wanting some validation that she misses me.

If you got it right now, would it give some solace to the agony?

I think it's why you wanted to see her, it's increasing the chance it might happen by being in close proximity. Trying to speed it up because its not just simply "i want this thing' it's i want this now and how am I gonna get it.
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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2021, 12:46:16 PM »

Mutt,

I've heard not standing up to them makes them feel like you won't stand up for them either. In fact I believe her and I had this discussion quite a while back and she agreed. I remember a couple of years ago when she broke up with me and tried to friendzone me. She was at a retreat  and I was back in Canada seeing family. I told her I don't do the friend zone thing very well and we would likely just lose contact. After that I still pursued a little and then she was seeing where another relationship went so I backed off. 6 weeks later when I chatted with her it never got off the ground and we ended up getting back together.

At the moment I have been assessing what I want. If things don't work out with this guy and there is another chance for us to try again, do I want that?

The other thing that has crossed my mind is who knows how long this relationship will last? From her relationships before me that I know of and her dating other guys when we've been apart I know they haven't lasted long. 1 to 7 months from what I know. Same with friendships. Ours lasted a lot longer. Maybe our Dynamic was different than others? Or maybe I just refused to give up. I believe a lot of other guys haven't invested the time to try to figure out exactly what is going on. She told me when we got back together that during the nine month. She had dated a few other guys and none of them had the connection that we did. Things that we enjoyed doing together the other guys didn't. With this guy however, we live in a rural area and he is a registered sex offender. I would imagine when he tries to date women the minute they find this out they probably walk away. She knows and is still pursuing a relationship with him it looks like. Knowing a lot of other women won't stick around and she will (as well as there not being many women to date), he might be willing to put up with a lot and keep trying as well.

With the uncertainty of how long this relationship will last, how far things will go with this guy, and if I would really want to try again, is it really worth waiting? A lot of these things go through my mind. I believe my best option at this moment is to stay away so I don't pursue, make things worse between us, and to give me space to figure out what I want. Figure out if I'm willing to try again with stronger boundaries or if this was the final straw.

She may or may not be done with the relationship. You do bring up a good point with being significant to her. I really don't know how long this guy has been in the picture and how much significance he has built. During those nine months apart he might have been in the picture then as well. Who knows? Some of her actions make me think that she still wants to keep some sort of attachment because she's not completely done. This may change if things continue to go well with this guy and build.

As far as being the captain of the Fun Bus, down the road if and when we come in contact again I will keep things light. If I do decide I want to try again and it works that way I'm not going to push anything. This last time in August when we got back together she actually pushed it. At the time I was actually a little reluctant. She sensed that when we went to an event together with our kids and it actually upset her. She told me she was feeling rejected and thinking that maybe things really were different between us. She said she wanted to be together. I told her okay, we can be together then.

As far as Facebook, I don't believe I am ready to unblock her yet. I feel if I do I will be tempted to look and I'm sure she's probably deleted all pictures of me or us. That will just hurt me some more. Also if she sees I unblocked her she will likely know I've been looking at her profile and might block me again. That will also hurt.

Cromwell,

If I did it would give some Solace. I would still feel hurt about how things happened but it would help for sure.

You bring up a very good point on wanting to see her. I know inside my mind I have felt this way. I guess really it is a way in my mind to ease the pain I am feeling. Speed things up so I'm not suffering so much. In my mind if I knew she missed me it would help me feel less pain perhaps? But also in my mind I feel like I need to stay away so I can assess what I want and maybe heal. I guess I really just have to sit with the pain and acknowledge it. Also in my mind, if she is really going to miss me it would be because I have stayed away.
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« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2021, 02:18:14 PM »

Excerpt
The other thing that has crossed my mind is who knows how long this relationship will last? From her relationships before me that I know of and her dating other guys when we've been apart I know they haven't lasted long. 1 to 7 months from what I know

That’s a good point and I agree maybe they’re intentions are different. You have the long view and maybe they’re not looking that far ahead or it’s possible that she’s not looking that far ahead as well or she is looking term and it ends up bring a bust.

You are right past behaviors will determine current patterns and as you know a pwBPD have rigid thought patterns a part of the diagnosis is if a pattern is observed for six months or longer.

Excerpt
Maybe our Dynamic was different than others? Or maybe I just refused to give up.

I get the impression that you’re a patient guy you could be more patient and you could be putting up with her behaviors more than others . There’s a quality about you that she likes, you’re familiar, she probably trysts your if you’ve known each other for a long time.

Excerpt
With this guy however, we live in a rural area and he is a registered sex offender. I would imagine when he tries to date women the minute they find this out they probably walk away.

I agree.

Excerpt
With the uncertainty of how long this relationship will last, how far things will go with this guy, and if I would really want to try again, is it really worth waiting? A lot of these things go through my mind. I believe my best option at this moment is to stay away so I don't pursue, make things worse between us, and to give me space to figure out what I want. Figure out if I'm willing to try again with stronger boundaries or if this was the final straw.

That makes sense.

I want to add if she is someone that you care about and you think that you want to reframe the r/s in a different and not pursue her romantically that’s your choice.

Can I ask you a question? Is a lot of the frustration and pain coming from both of you wanting different things?

What I mean it sounds like at a point you want a r/s that is long term and from what I’m getting from you share about her is either she’s not interested in a long term r/s and no offense to you or maybe she’s had a bad experience in the past she’s projecting in the present now.

What I mean is maybe she’s avoiding a committed r/s because she’s trying to avoid past hurts which is living in the past because what happened in the past is different than the experience that she has with you.

If that’s the case, can you accept that age is living within her boundaries of how she knows how to function. Sometimes we think that people will magically change if we hang around long enough or try hard enough that they will see our efforts?

That being said, the anger that you have now can empower you to change and tweak certain things. Are you seeing anyone yourself? Have you thought about seeing other women? If you don’t feel like this is the right time that’s absolutely correct for you.

What I’m hearing is that you’re carefully thinking things over. I think it sounds like you’ve had a long history and it may be time for you turn the page on this chapter of your life and pursue something different and something new.

Listen to your intuition - we give ourselves emotional distress when we align ourselves with our true selves and I think that you’re selling selling short of you put all of your eggs in one basket with one woman - you’re compatible with many people and there’s someone that is going to appreciate you for you.

If you choose to go back that’s your choice - no judgments from me butt just realize that she is who she is she may not change at all and you’ll have to ignore her tendencies when it comes to a commuted r/s and maybe there’s something that to her she doesn’t le that you’re done by. Is there something that you can think of?

If you choose to move on the there’s a lot of stuff that’s hard to see now that you can salvage like setting boundaries and sticking up for yourself that is going to pave the way to healthier r/s’s if you buckle down and follow through with it.

She might now that Carguy is setting a boundary with me now but if I keep trying to cross that line eventually he’ll cave  but if you change that with following through by not giving her what she wants either she’ll move on or she’ll respect that boundary or she might roll over that boundary as well but it all comes back to how you react to it.

Do I put up with it or is it time for me to close the chapter?
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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2021, 04:36:49 PM »

I couldn't say if she is looking at long-term or not with him. As far as past behaviors, I'm pretty sure they will manifest themselves again with this guy eventually. When she became best friend with this one girl, I was happy she finally had a female friend but figured it probably wouldn't last too terribly long. What I found interesting is a therapist that I listen to online I think once said that on average relationships with borderlines last 6 to 8 months. I found out this friendship lasted six months. She seems to fall into the category for the most part. Like I said, it could be different with this guy though. It was with me. Although I would say from what I know, probably 98% of her relationships don't last longer than six to seven months.

You're right. I could have more patience. There are times in our past that I became impatient with her and got upset with her. She still brings up those memories and it still hurts her to this day. As far as trust, she always tells me that she feels that she can't trust me. But then again she says that about pretty much everybody that gets close to her. Co-workers, friends, ex romantic partners, even her own father. She has however told me things about herself that I highly doubt she had told anybody else. Things that are very close and personal. Very vulnerable. Even recently. I was with her years before she opened up about some of these things. I would think that says something.

We actually have known each other for quite a while. 15 years ago we dated for a couple of months when I was coming out of my marriage. She eventually broke it off but we were still friends. Through The Years up to 2015 we would run into each other every few years and chat but eventually lose contact again. 2015 we ran into each other again as she was coming out of her second marriage and we started seeing each other.

I have thought about reframing the relationship too. Maybe eventually we could be friends after I've had some space and time to heal. That is another thought that has crossed my mind.

As far as wanting different things, I believe we want the same things. I want a relationship that grows and becomes marriage. She does too. What is interesting is this last time we were together a month or so in she was telling me again that she thinks I'm the love of her life and that she wants to marry me. With our unstable past I felt really unsure about that. I didn't want her to feel rejected so I told her "Let's work toward that then." She seemed to be happy with that and said okay with a smile. Every time we have gotten back together she starts talking about marriage. Things like "if we get married" or one day she said when we were making love that she wanted to yell out "Marry me!" When we first started dating we eventually were talking marriage. I really thought she was the one and I was almost ready to marry her. I know we have negative things in our past as well that she can't let go of. She has told me this. When we get back together after a while she she price pushing my buttons and I keep my calm but eventually I lose my patience. I have became a lot better about it and she has even said she's noticed this. That I have made big improvements in being understanding.

I know she has a lot of hurt in her past. Hurt with family comes up often. Hurt and her second marriage comes up a lot too. Hurt in our relationship also comes up.

As far as age, I think I understand what you're saying here. To me I do realize that sometimes she asked or reacts on an immature level. Basically a kid level. From what I understand borderline function emotionally at a very child level.

I have thought about seeing other women. I am not seeing anybody right now. I'm not sure if I am Ready or Not. That has been debated in my head as well.

As far as something I may have done. A few months ago when we were going to one of my games I compete in, when we were in the restaurant she started accusing me again of getting into her phone and deleting pictures years ago when she was living with me and we were broke up. Her kids and her were sleeping downstairs and we hardly spoke to each other. I didn't even know the code to her phone nor did I care too. At first I was trying to be patient but being accused of things that I did not do is a huge trigger for me and always has been. I have told her this in the past.  I got upset and when we got in the car I was driving a little aggressive because I was angry. She started screaming for me to pull over that she would drive. I finally pulled over on the on-ramp and let her drive. I didn't talk to her the rest of the day. When we got back home the next evening we talked and I apologized and told her I was completely out of line. She actually apologized to me too and we made up and things seemed good.  She was upset about other things that day too. My ex-wife has had the combo to the front door lock of my house since I built my house. 5 years before my ex BPD and I started dating again. My ex-wife and I are close friends and I completely trust her with things like that. I gave her the code when my boys and I went back to Canada to see family. She would go in and check the house and feed my cats. She was feeding my cat this time since we were going to be gone the weekend to my games. My ex BPD asked if she had a key or something. I told her no she has the combo. She became very upset about my ex-wife having access to my house. Then my son became defensive of his mother and was angry.

The thing that she broke up with me this time over was a disagreement. After spending the weekend together she left to go home Sunday night. She text me and asked if she had left some letters there. I went and looked and just found envelopes. I text her back and asked if that's what she was wanting. She didn't respond so I called her to confirm. When we had ate dinner I had moved them off the dinner table. She got a little upset about that and told me when I move her stuff I need to let her know. I told her sorry and that I will let her know next time. She didn't leave any letters, just a couple of envelopes and one had an address of one of her family members on it. She started in on me about those envelopes laying there and she didn't trust my 17 year old son. My son is a good kid. He's a straight-A student and very honest and trustworthy.. I frequently have neighbors and others that know him telling me what a good kid he is. I naturally became defensive. I told her I trust my son completely. She told me I was getting defensive and that we needed to get off the phone and go to bed. The next day I stopped by her apartment and we started talking. She started talking about the relationship she has with my ex-wife and son. She had told me recently she wanted to repair them. I told her I could see my ex-wife was trying to reach out to her and that she should consider that. I told her from what I could see my ex-wife feels like she isn't trying and she feels like my ex-wife isn't trying. They both feel the same thing. Maybe there's something in that. She started getting angry thinking I was accusing her of not trying. She tried twisting my words around and I repeated exactly what I had said. I told her what she was saying is not what I was trying to say or mean. I was trying to be validating as well. It escalated to where she was shutting down and pulling away curled up against the wall shaking. She didn't want contact but I finally put my arms around her and was hugging her trying to calm her. I have done this in the past. She has told me I need to break through her barriers a lot of those times. She kept telling me it was past time for me to go to work and I was going to be late. She was right. I left and went to work. I was exhausted that day from lack of sleep over all of this and in a bad mood. I get off at 5 and she gets off at 6. We live 20 miles apart. I would usually go home after work and eat dinner and do my thing. This day I was extremely tired and in a bad mood so I thought I would go home like always. I fell asleep about 7  that evening and slept through the night. I had a feeling she would be upset that I didn't wait until she got off and try to go talk to her. The next morning when I stopped by she asked where I was. She was upset and angry telling me that she was shaking when I left and I didn't try to come by that night to talk to her and it drove her mind crazy. Finally she told me we needed to take a break. I feel like there is nothing there that could not be worked through but apparently she didn't.

I do struggle with boundaries. I have tried setting some in the past with her and they have upset her or I haven't stuck to them. I believe this is one thing I really need to work on. Setting boundaries and sticking with them regardless of where her and I end up in the future.

I don't know if she will change or not. She has been in therapy a few times but hasn't seen her therapist since last summer the last she told me. She knows there is something wrong with her but she thinks it's social anxiety. She goes to retreat and buys all sorts of self-help books and does natural oils and crystals and many other things trying to help herself. She has also been going back to college for the last year in psychology. I honestly think deep down that this is her trying to figure out what is wrong with herself.

As far as turning a chapter, I'm still struggling with that. My logical side says yes but my heart says no. I'm hoping with time and space that maybe this can become more clear.
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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2021, 06:15:52 PM »

I think that you’re right it’s going to take time to sort through this and thanks for sharing your honest feelings. It’s been a good discussion.

A couple of thoughts.

Excerpt
What I found interesting is a therapist that I listen to online I think once said that on average relationships with borderlines last 6 to 8 months.

That sounds about right with the time that we become emotionally intimate with a new r/s partner. BPD behaviors are triggered by emotional intimacy- they act out when they become close to us.

Excerpt
You're right. I could have more patience. There are times in our past that I became impatient with her and got upset with her. She still brings up those memories and it still hurts her to this day. As far as trust, she always tells me that she feels that she can't trust me. But then again she says that about pretty much everybody that gets close to her. Co-workers, friends, ex romantic partners, even her own father. She has however told me things about herself that I highly doubt she had told anybody else. Things that are very close and personal. Very vulnerable. Even recently. I was with her years before she opened up about some of these things. I would think that says something.

My advice is that she has trust issues with every body. Find some time in your break and amaze it a goal to accept that you can’t change the fact that she has trust issues with everyone and probably herself.

Excerpt
When we get back together after a while she she price pushing my buttons and I keep my calm but eventually I lose my patience.

Excerpt
I have done this in the past. She has told me I need to break through her barriers a lot of those times

This stuck out for me - she’s testing you to see if you’re going to stick around. A r/s with a pwBPD - you have to have a strong center. Don’t let her throw you off your center - the difficulty curve spikes dramatically because you’re dealing with a pwBPD.

Patience is key I think like you said - you can have more patience and some of things that she does you’ll have to let them go ( in the context of not knowing where you stand in the r/s ) and find an outlet. You can talk to us here, talk to a T, work out, sign up for alo moves ( Yoga, meditation, fitness ) boxing, MMA what ever you like. I’m not asking you to be perfect we all have put issues and we all have those moments we’re we lose our patience but what I am saying is finding something that helps us balance those moments.

Excerpt
My ex BPD asked if she had a key or something. I told her no she has the combo. She became very upset about my ex-wife having access to my house. Then my son became defensive of his mother and was angry.

This isn’t because of BPD - she’s insecure a lot of women feel threatened by other women. A lot about r/s’s is putting yourself in the other person’s shoes and trying to see if it from their perspective to get a more complete picture of what is actually going on. She could also be testing you to see if you’re going to stick around or if you’re got ho have to your ex or to another woman. She’s testing you to see if you’re going to stick around.

Excerpt
She got a little upset about that and told me when I move her stuff I need to let her know. I told her sorry and that I will let her know next time. She didn't leave any letters, just a couple of envelopes and one had an address of one of her family members on it. She started in on me about those envelopes laying there and she didn't trust my 17 year old son. My son is a good kid. He's a straight-A student and very honest and trustworthy.. I frequently have neighbors and others that know him telling me what a good kid he is. I naturally became defensive. I told her I trust my son completely. She told me I was getting defensive and that we needed to get off the phone and go to bed. The next day I stopped by her apartment and we started talking. She started talking about the relationship she has with my ex-wife and son. She had told me recently she wanted to repair them. I told her I could see my ex-wife was trying to reach out to her and that she should consider that. I told her from what I could see my ex-wife feels like she isn't trying and she feels like my ex-wife isn't trying. They both feel the same thing. Maybe there's something in that. She started getting angry thinking I was accusing her of not trying.

I would read our article on triangulation.In situations like these be an objectionable observer looking from the outside and remaining neutral by not picking sides and just observe.  I know that it’s easier said that done and takes practice but you can set a goal for yourself for the long term and as long as you keep trying if you don’t get it right - keep trying and eventually after a span of time passes you’ll recognize those moments were you’re getting pulled from different sides to not make things worse remain neutral - you’re not fueling the drama. Full stop. You’ll feel better emotionally.

Excerpt
She was upset and angry telling me that she was shaking when I left and I didn't try to come by that night to talk to her and it drove her mind crazy. Finally she told me we needed to take a break. I feel like there is nothing there that could not be worked through but apparently she didn't.

She could of been looking good a reason to break up to give herself justification with her choice. Next time just send her a quick message I’m on my home and had a bad day. I’m going to sleep it off. I think that it’s an overreaction on her part but I don’t think that she was being transparent with why she broke up I think she may of been looking for a reason. I’m sorry about that.

Excerpt
I do struggle with boundaries. I have tried setting some in the past with her and they have upset her or I haven't stuck to them. I believe this is one thing I really need to work on. Setting boundaries and sticking with them regardless of where her and I end up in the future.

Thats exactly what happens - you get an angry reaction because you’re introducing a new behavior that they are not accustomed to. That being said, the anger will eventually stop but you have to keep pushing through with your resolve by asserting your boundaries. Either the other person will comply or they won’t comply and end the r/s and find someone else that’s more controllable.

Excerpt
She has been in therapy a few times but hasn't seen her therapist since last summer the last she told me. She knows there is something wrong with her but she thinks it's social anxiety. She goes to retreat and buys all sorts of self-help books and does natural oils and crystals and many other things trying to help herself. She has also been going back to college for the last year in psychology. I honestly think deep down that this is her trying to figure out what is wrong with herself.

Give credit where credit is due going back to school is not easy and good for her if she wants to finish psychology and if she is trying to do some self work in her own - you may not be dealing with a person that is completely emotionally immature - she might be developing more self awareness because people that are emotionally immature don’t have the capacity to self reflect.
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« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2021, 02:02:59 PM »

It has been a good discussion and it really does help me! Thank you!

When we first got together I believe in this time frame I seen some minor acting out but nothing that made me question at that time.

I have noticed for years that she truly does have trust issues with everyone. Even herself. She had said in the past repeatedly that she wasn't sure if she could trust what her brain was saying. She is self aware of that.

The idea of her testing me makes sense. There have been many times that I felt like she was testing me to see if I would leave or not. I still need to work on my patience. I can see this. Over the years with her I can see that I have made huge improvements on that but still have a ways to go. She has even commented in the past on how patient I have been at times.

Putting myself in her shoes is something I have learned over the last year or so. It has been huge. Her and I even talked about this. I have found that by putting myself in her shoes and seeing it from her side rather than just taking offense or getting defensive has helped to calm me and gain better understanding of where she is coming from. When she got upset about my ex-wife having access we talked a little about it and I could understand how she felt threatened. Not even from a borderline perspective but just from a woman perspective. She was upset when she said it but her idea was to change the code on the door and give my ex a key to my shop and put the cat food out there when we go away. I told her I thought that would work. I know when we first got together she struggled with the idea of my ex-wife and I having a good friendship. She brought it up and kept asking how she could be sure that I wouldn't leave her for my ex-wife. I kept reassuring her that I wouldn't. At the time her and I had been divorced for 11 or 12 years. I told her that I had no desire to be anything other than a friend with my ex-wife.

I feel like I truly need to work on the triangulation. I really was trying to remain neutral and advise her on my thoughts on how to improve the relationship. She did not take it this way. My therapist believe that she was seeing my ex-wife as the enemy and wasn't really wanting to work on the relationship.

When we talked and she was upset about me going home she was upset as well that I did not even text her and tell her what was going on. I told her I should have text at least. I really should have. I believe that would have at least made things not quite as bad. After I found out the guy on the internet that was chasing her was now hanging out with her after we broke up though, I feel that this was more of an excuse. This is why I feel like I was lied to. She told me that she told him they would not get together even if things didn't work out between her and I. Now I feel like they were in fact talking and he was trying to win her over. I know when you don't talk to her when things are bad like that it really does make things worse though. She gets really upset because her mind goes to worst case scenarios and drives her crazy like she says.

I think in the past this is one of the reasons why I struggled with boundaries with her. Trying to keep from upsetting her and her leaving me. Being trauma bonded. I have noticed some pretty controlling behavior on her part. The more I have read over the last while the more I have found that things I didn't realize were in fact controlling behaviors. In fact some of the things I have read I'm even guilty of. These are things I'm working at changing.

As far as her going back to school, I think it is great! She graduated years ago from one of our state universities with an Associates. She went out in medical transcriptionist but could not get her foot in the door. About a year or year-and-a-half ago she decided to go back to school and start taking classes in Psychology. I fully supported her. I helped her when I could with homework and even took her kids in the other room and watch TV with them or read to them or whatever we needed to do so she could have time alone to do her lessons. I actually enjoyed helping her and watching the kids. It really felt like a family. She struggled with self-reflecting I believe and a lot of times can't when the narcissism is in charge but there are times that I have seen her self-reflect. She is aware of problems. Not long before she broke up with me she was upset and told me she pushes people away and she hates it. That is why I wonder if she is taking psychology not only because she enjoys it but also to maybe unlock some answers to questions she has about herself. I hope she find those answers and it helps her.
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« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2021, 02:37:12 PM »

Excerpt
She was upset when she said it but her idea was to change the code on the door and give my ex a key to my shop and put the cat food out there when we go away. I told her I thought that would work.

This is a really good suggestion. I would of gone along with it as well too.

Excerpt
I feel like I truly need to work on the triangulation. I really was trying to remain neutral and advise her on my thoughts on how to improve the relationship. She did not take it this way. My therapist believe that she was seeing my ex-wife as the enemy and wasn't really wanting to work on the relationship.

It sounds like she’s trying to pick a fight her and she might even say something like sometimes it feels good to fight because it keeps it exiting.

Sometimes women are board and will do this that being said if she doesn’t want to work inn the r/s and wants to fight you don’t want to unnecessarily damage the r/s because if you fall into a trap of constant conflict you’re going to get to state that’s called the Four Horseman of Apocalypse- a point we’re enough damage is done that the r/s will not be recoverable at that point.

Don’t take the bait! This is me and sometimes my gf will she just wants the fight and i think it’s because if attention or maybe she’s bored but I have lived experience and I’m not interested in triggering the Four Horseman of Apocalypse

If your exW is the enemy then she cast herself as victim and she wants rescue and as you probably already know  it keeps adding fuel to the fire when we engage in drama.

With triangulation in mind what can happen in a r/s is that there can be a lot of pressure that’s built on on the r/s that is difficult to vocoder with and what triangulation does is - it’s like a release valve it releases all of the pressure in the r/s.

Excerpt
After I found out the guy on the internet that was chasing her was now hanging out with her after we broke up though, I feel that this was more of an excuse. This is why I feel like I was lied to. She told me that she told him they would not get together even if things didn't work out between her and I.

I know that it’s contradictory because I of how aggressive a pwBPD are in the exterior with their anger if you take it at face value. Think of the quote “Hurt people hurt people” and really anger can be a mask for pain and a paBPD are really fragile in the exterior and if there’s a lot of anger that is directed at them then and I’m not making excuses for the behavior they can seek out a third party to release that pressure from the main r/s.

That being said BPD is about not being able to self regulate their feelings - we’re not responsible for other people’s feelings and many of us in this thread have the habit of rescuing their expwBPD because they could not self sooth. That’s were I draw the line today if my current gf ( non ) has negative emotions I won’t rescue I wait until she gets back to her emotional baseline and for a pwBPD you’re going to have to wait a little longer for them to get back to their emotional baseline.

My gf knows from setting the boundary early in the r/s that I won’t chase her if she’s going through negative feelings I put up with that behavior for years with my exuBPDw being the lightning rod for all of her negative emotions and I don’t be a soother anymore.

I talked to her about it one time because she said I don’t chase and I told her what’s the goal here? Do you want two adults that are emotionally wounded lashing out at each other to soothe each other? I’m not interested in that because it’s just to keep damaging the r/s and then what are you left with?

Excerpt
These are things I'm working at changing.

That’s awesome that you’re doing the work  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
She is aware of problems. Not long before she broke up with me she was upset and told me she pushes people away and she hates it. That is why I wonder if she is taking psychology not only because she enjoys it but also to maybe unlock some answers to questions she has about herself. I hope she find those answers and it helps her.

There a lot of members that have an ex that don’t have self awareness and are going through the motions every day and not realizing the impact. She has her own things to work on and from what I’m hearing from you you’re doing you’re own work out a T doing self work here and you’re interested in becoming more aware.
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« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2021, 08:21:55 AM »

Not long before she broke up with me she was upset and told me she pushes people away and she hates it. That is why I wonder if she is taking psychology not only because she enjoys it but also to maybe unlock some answers to questions she has about herself. I hope she find those answers and it helps her.

Sounds like that is fear of engulfment, Carguy. I never did know what that was until I read about it in this forum following my breakup with my ex-g/f. After I found out about it here, I asked my therapist several questions about it. That and fear of abandonment  are just two of the many BPD traits. My T told me she counsels a woman with severe BPD. This woman's attendance in her therapy sessions is inconsistent, which makes treating her even more difficult my T said. She said it's very common for this woman to cry most of the way through her sessions and say "I don't know why I do the terrible things I do to other people and myself."  It's truly a shame what these people go through.

I can identify with your ex telling you how she pushes people away and how she hates it. I went through this with my ex-g/f as well. At various times through the relationship, she told me this: "It is hard to explain, but sometimes there is this part of me that wants to step in and deliberately mess all of this up (her relationship with me)." If it wasn't that, she'd be love bombing me with in person affection, texts, emails, phone calls. She once told me that being with me was "like an addiction for me (her)." Then we'd go through a couple of days where she hardly wanted to talk to me. Prior to dating her, I'd known her for 18 years. Following her separation with her ex-husband, she moved an hour away from me. We started dating 4-5 months later while she still lived out of town. Roughly 5 months into the relationship, she stated that she wanted to move back to this area to be closer to me and her parents. About a month later, she said she wasn't so sure about moving back and maybe the distance would do us good (fear of engulfment?). She went back and forth with this for a few months and ended up moving back to the area in June 2019. Our relationship lasted 10 months after she moved back here. The push/pull behavior occurred for basically the entire time.  At the time of the breakup, she said that she never wanted to live here and "wanted to move around and eventually leave and move to another state." This was after she told me several times that she wanted for us to be married and settle down. She stated that she wanted stability for her kids and said "No more moving around." Pretty much, I didn't know what I was getting from one day to the next. I don't miss that at all.

I know the cycle all too well, my friend, as does everyone else here. Take care of yourself.

 
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« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2021, 08:35:01 AM »

The thing my therapist pointed out with her relationship with my ex-wife and this instance is that she probably wasn't interested in repairing the relationship with my ex-wife and had already made my ex-wife the enemy. My therapist suggests she was likely testing my loyalties to see if I would side with her or my ex-wife. I believe the only part she heard of what I was telling her led her to believe I was siding with my ex-wife. What I in fact was telling her is that from what I can see they both feel the same way. She also told me my ex-wife waved at her in the store a few days earlier. When she told me this she was telling me that she felt like it was all forced and it took her saying something for my ex-wife to start trying to reach out. When we were talking that morning I assumed she didn't wave back. I think this upset her too and possibly made her think I was siding with my ex. She told me she had and I told her I didn't know that. I told her I'm not there to see the interactions between them so I don't know what all goes on.

So you think that she possibly sought out this guy because she was feeling stress in the relationship and anger from me? It does make some sense to me. Maybe a third person to relieve some pressure on?

What you say here about not chasing is quite interesting. My therapist told me something similar. One of the habits I have that he pointed out is when she starts getting quiet and pulling away and not saying I love you back, I can tell something is wrong. I start chasing. I start getting panicky knowing something is wrong and my fear of Abandonment starts kicking in. I start asking her what is wrong or what is going on or is she is okay or things like that. My therapist suggested that if I do get back together with her and this happens to put the responsibility back on her. He told me to go on like everything is fine. Let her come to me with her problems. Don't chase after her wondering what the problem is.

The fact that she is somewhat self-aware gives me hope that someday she will be able to fully figure out and work on herself. As for me, I was never aware of the things I had going on until I was with her. I do have to thank her (and I have) for making me aware of the things I need to work on myself.
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« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2021, 11:26:07 AM »


Excerpt
So you think that she possibly sought out this guy because she was feeling stress in the relationship and anger from me? It does make some sense to me. Maybe a third person to relieve some pressure on?

It could be that she added a third party because of she is triggered, boundaries are being set that she’s not used to and you’re following through your boundaries or maybe you are wanting a r/s and she’s not wanting a r/s at this time. You said that she wants a r/s but maybe there’s something that is making her have second thoughts, is there something that you can think of?

Excerpt
As for me, I was never aware of the things I had going on until I was with her. I do have to thank her (and I have) for making me aware of the things I need to work on myself.

Im glad to hear gratitude  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2021, 07:14:13 PM »

Thanks Brighter,

It is such a hard disorder for both Us and Them. Having both the fear of Abandonment and the fear of engulfment because of the fear of abandonment play Havoc. Self-fulfilling prophecy. A little over a year ago my ex BPD told me she thinks she hates herself. This honestly broke my heart.

All these years that we have been together she has never felt suicidal or had self-harming or suicidal thoughts like some BPD people do. She even told me this a few times in the past. She said she didn't see what the point of doing something like that would be. Just a few months ago she told me she was struggling and had a thought that she just didn't even want to be here. This is the first time I have ever known her to feel like this. She even told me she didn't know where it came from. She seemed surprised by it. Later she was angry at me and throwing it at me about that time saying she was basically having suicidal thoughts. I'm not sure if this is something new manifesting itself or a she did and never admit it till now. I also don't know how serious these thoughts have became. If it was just a momentary thing or if they're starting to occur with her now. I pray that they don't and she doesn't continue down that path.

It really is interesting how they seem to use the same Playbook. Reading some of your experiences remind me of exactly the same things that happened in mine. I have experienced the push-pull dynamic several times over the last few years with her. Mine told me not quite two years ago that she was afraid she was going to push me away. She has a very narcissistic side so anytime we break up it is always her that breaks up with me and it is always my fault to her. Mine had also asked me if I thought that we were both just addicted to each other.

I know in the past with her second husband she had moved to the other side of the country and lived in a few different areas. When we were first together she wanted to get married and live here and have a great life. Eventually it started coming up that she wanted to move out of state too. There have been times when we were broken up that when we started talking she told me she had been making plans to move out of state. She never has yet. Then a couple of years ago when we broke up and she was going to see where things went with another guy she was going to move to the city he lived in which is still in our state. It never got off the ground and she ended up not moving though. I tend to think that a lot of times when they want to move like she does they think that things are going to be better there. She wanted to move to another state where she goes to her retreat. Everybody loves her there and it's so nice to her. If she moved there and was around these people on a regular basis there's a good chance that history would repeat itself and she would turn against them.

Mutt,

I believe that what comes up for her is feeling like nothing has changed. She has even said this. I feel that things have changed and gotten better between us and she has agreed. Other times though I think some things trigger memories of our past for her (like when I became irritated with her on the way to my games). It makes her feel like we're in the past and going through the same thing again.

To me it is like she can see how much better we communicate and work through things and the huge improvements but then one little slip (like becoming irritated after being pushed repeatedly) and she doesn't see how much things have improved between us but instead she sees that we're just doing the same thing and nothing has changed.
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« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2021, 08:19:12 PM »

Well I wasn't sure if i was on the black list until tonight.

Last month when I ran into Walmart for a few things I went to self checkout like always and found out she was running it. Of course the checkout that opened up was directly in front of where she was standing. The whole time I was checking out she made it a point to look off to one side or another so she didn't look at me. I talked to her a few days later and apologized for overreacting when she was hanging out with the other guy on her lunch the one day. She said i did and we talked a little. I mainly stopped to warn her about what I had learned about his past. After that i hadn't seen her so I wasn't sure how things were between us. Tonight i stopped to get some groceries and i think she was down on the other end so I could just go in and out without running into her. I shopped and when I got up to self checkout she was standing there talking to a coworker. She turned to leave to go back to her checkout and had to walk directly  towards me. She glanced and seen it was me and looked away and turned just like I was someone she didn't know. She was maybe 6 to 8 feet away and knew it was me. It hurt.

It really made me want to go talk to her tomorrow and apologize for things and try to make things better. I hate having things like this between us. It seems to help in the past but then last summer it would anger her more. In December though she didn't get angry and was willing to talk. I know last summer staying away helped when she wasn't willing to listen but a few weeks ago she was. I also know Mutt said don't chase so would I be chasing or just letting her know I care and I'm sorry if I misread things. I'm beginning to think maybe she really wasn't interested in the other guy.

Not sure what the best thing to do is here.
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« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2021, 07:55:12 AM »

Carguy dear, you have come so far! Don't move backwards now. I know you don't want to shop somewhere else, but would you not consider it at least for a month? The truth is, you still care about her. It speaks volumes about what a nice man you are. But it also makes you incredibly vulnerable to her. On these boards we see time after time that closure is something you almost never get from pwBPD, especially if they are not in therapy. Unless she is committed to her healing the best you can hope for is another recycle that will bring you back to exactly where you are now. For your own sake,  focus your thoughts on the child abusing man who is now part of your triangle and shop somewhere else for a little while.
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« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2021, 08:01:04 PM »

Hey Khibomsis!

So I actually talked to her today. We had a really long conversation. I learned a lot. We did not get back together but I feel a lot better about things.  I think we are both reluctant to be in a relationship with each other. I did find out that she was never dating this guy. I didn't even ask. She brought it up and told me. He has no friends and was looking for friends. She was just befriending him. She did not bring him around her kids and told him a few times that they were not going to get together. She told me she was not willing to risk losing her kids or anything like that. In fact I got the impression they're not even spending time together anymore. I'm  relieved she isn't going to put her kids in that situation.

As far as us, the conversation went really well and I feel better about things between us now. I think at this point now I will keep my space and continue working on me and doing things I enjoy. Also I do believe I will shop at the other grocery store in our town. It's smaller and doesn't have a lot of things I buy plus it's a little more expensive so I think I will go back to what I was doing before. When I just need a few items I will go there but when I do a big shopping trip I will go to Walmart on the weekends because she doesn't work then.:-)
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 08:08:00 PM by Carguy » Logged
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« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2021, 01:45:09 PM »

Carguy you got it! I am glad for you you had a civilized conversation:) Now give your wounded heart a break for a month and you will be able to face her like a human. I know it is hard but you can do it!
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