I just feel so incredibly lonely and betrayed.

[blackorchid]

I tried but he wasn't interested.  He went on the balcony alone listening to sad love songs and a beer.

He wasn't chatty at all and nothing would engage him into conversation...  He seemed incredibly tired, which I'm not surprised at. he has been drinking and going to bed too late every day as far as i can tell since he left home

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

My hope is that you went and did whatever it was you were inviting him to do. 

Was he drinking any while at your house?

Best,

FF

[blackorchid]

Yeah I did but he just wasn't interested at all.

Yeah, he ordered beer from the market, I tried your line of "I'm not drinking right now" and stuck to it. But he carried on without me, but at least it was better than drinking spirits.

He was more respectful this time in that he did smoke on the balcony rather that in the house. But it was quite clear he didn't want me to sit there with him.  The last time he came in, he went to the bathroom and then to bed without saying anything to me.  From 9pm he was exhausted and I was encouraging him to sleep because I know he is on his last chance at work... (not from him, from his assistant manager)

When he came last week, he asked me to get something from his bag, and when I was getting it out I knocked a jewellery box...containing the necklace he gave me yesterday and matching earrings(of the Turkish evil eye).He arrived yesterday 10 mins early so I just grabbed the earrings that I had been wearing the previous day without thinking, they are also of the Turkish evil eye.  As we were sitting, he looked at me and said "Oh when did you get those earrings are they new?" I said no remember I showed you them when I got them on black Friday.  He went into the corridor, returned with the necklace in his hand and gave it me saying happy birthday.  Not in the nicest way...not nasty just a bit... off?
He didn't give it in the box or anything.  I don't know what it means, I'm guessing the earrings were still in his box.  I feel almost like he feels lost and not enough, which is why he is scrambling with ideas of new careers. Maybe he felt like his earring weren't as good as mine or was annoyed that I had something similar. But that's just tea leaf reading again.

I remember him being aloof in 2019 at a similar stage too, so I'm not trying to take it personally...

[formflier]

Does he contribute to expenses of the apartment? 

Best,

FF

[blackorchid]

Usually yes, no he's moved out,no.  Although he did pay the water bill and a bill for he dog last month

[babyducks]

Does he contribute to expenses of the apartment? 

Best,

FF

FF.  I am blocked from replying to private messages.    Not sure what is the issue.   

[babyducks]

I remember him being aloof in 2019 at a similar stage too, so I'm not trying to take it personally...

this is a long standing pattern you have as a couple.    You have literally been doing this for years.   

I see two sides to this dynamic.    He treats you poorly.   That's one side.   The other side is you don't have strong boundaries that help you be treated better.

If I am understanding things correctly you are broken up...his decision.   Still he is coming and going from the house as if it were another hotel.

We are always encouraged here to look at our role in relationship issues.    Can you see how the idea of being aloof has been created and allowed in the relationship?

[blackorchid]

this is a long standing pattern you have as a couple.    You have literally been doing this for years.   

I see two sides to this dynamic.    He treats you poorly.   That's one side.   The other side is you don't have strong boundaries that help you be treated better.

If I am understanding things correctly you are broken up...his decision.   Still he is coming and going from the house as if it were another hotel.

We are always encouraged here to look at our role in relationship issues.    Can you see how the idea of being aloof has been created and allowed in the relationship?

I don't quite know how to explain it, normally when he is at baseline he isn't aloof, he is warm and caring and interested. Dare I say, a "normal" partner.

When he becomes like this he becomes aloof, guarded maybe? Like he asks to come, he asks to see me, he asks to spend time together...yet, when he comes he is disinterested and shuts himself off.

I don't like to push him/question him when he is like this as I don't want to cause him to rage again and go back to square one, I guess.  I feel like maybe he is testing how he feels around me now, but keeps emotionally closed off..
I really can't explain it very well.

You're right we have been doing it for years and it's not a place I want to be in again. After the last episode in 2019 we had been doing so much better and he hadn't dysregulated like this again.

On Saturday his friend & girlfriend came when he was here. They didn't know that we had split, or that he had moved out. They asked if we had been able to do anything about the wedding...

He told them we're not together. He said "she told me to F off , so I F'd off"
This still seems to be a major block for him.

He then drew the family card. As he always does. I disrespect his family. I don't treat his family well. etc etc etc

His family have never treated me well.  Hell, they don't even treat him well. His brother and sister know he has been suicidal but don't call or visit, but yet again, as ever, I am the bad guy.   I had to leave the terrace and come inside because I couldn't bare hearing about it.

I don't know...could he be on the edge of unsplitting me but finding issues to keep me "black"?

[formflier]

I don't quite know how to explain it, normally when he is at baseline he isn't aloof, he is warm and caring and interested. Dare I say, a "normal" partner.
 

This makes total sense to me!

Here is the counter-intuitive thing and it was also quite scary for me.

Applying boundaries, avoiding invalidation and validating emotions all work hand in hand to help return them to baseline sooner. 

I was scared that boundaries would push them away...and yes there was a VERY STRONG reaction to my boundaries, but then FFw stayed and over time the acting out was less and less.

For instance, it comes through loud and clear that you like him (love him is likely more accurate) a bunch more when he is not drinking.  So...it would be entirely reasonable for you to have a value based boundary that you will spend time with him sober and he is not welcome in YOUR apartment if he decides to drink.

Now..if this is something you want to work on or think you can do, I would advise we work on this "back here" for a while before you try communicating this with him.

It is important that whatever boundaries you choose are going to hold, or that you will hold to them, even when he tries to push past them.

How does this sit with you?

Best,

FF

[blackorchid]

This makes total sense to me!

Here is the counter-intuitive thing and it was also quite scary for me.

Applying boundaries, avoiding invalidation and validating emotions all work hand in hand to help return them to baseline sooner. 

I was scared that boundaries would push them away...and yes there was a VERY STRONG reaction to my boundaries, but then FFw stayed and over time the acting out was less and less.

I guess I'm scared to start enforcing boundaries now when he is like this, as I don't want to
a)make him angry
b)push him away/reopen abandonment issues
c) leave myself open for an own goal of the style of, "We're not even together what are you talking about?"


I didn't know after he was saying to his friends on Sat again that I told him to F off ( in the middle of a very big argument, where I know I shouldn't have JADEd and got so mad) and so he has F off.  Maybe that needs a SET message or some validation around.

Or should I start with smaller boundaries first?

For instance, it comes through loud and clear that you like him (love him is likely more accurate) a bunch more when he is not drinking.  So...it would be entirely reasonable for you to have a value based boundary that you will spend time with him sober and he is not welcome in YOUR apartment if he decides to drink.

Yes, but I am deeply concerned with his drinking atm. My suspicion, along with his colleague, is that he is drinking every day. I don't think he would be willing rn to even consider not drinking. He won't even accept (according to the colleague) that getting caught drinking at work was the problem, even that somehow could be blamed on me.

The argument began due to drinking.  He raged that I'm not his parents, I can't tell him what to do, I can't control him, why am I always controlling him, if you don't like me drinking then I'll leave.  After rounds of this, was when I told him to F off and I left the room.

Part of me just thinks that this is a conversation that needs to wait for when we are in a better place...

Now..if this is something you want to work on or think you can do, I would advise we work on this "back here" for a while before you try communicating this with him.

It is important that whatever boundaries you choose are going to hold, or that you will hold to them, even when he tries to push past them.

I would be more than happy to work on them here, and am very grateful for the offer.

I know that alcohol is a very tough topic for me...hence me loosing my self control in the argument with him.  I tried to stop my parents drinking as a teen and young adult and lost the fight...my dad died of it. I have tried to get my mum to stop and also it has fell on deaf ears, so maybe that's why I put up with more surrounding this topic than other people.

Others have said to refuse to speak to him until he is not drinking, I guess my fear is that day won't come and that by doing so he will drink more and then do something stupid.


What do you think about him coming but then not interacting, have you experienced this with FFw?

[formflier]

The argument began due to drinking.  He raged that I'm not his parents, I can't tell him what to do, I can't control him, why am I always controlling him, if you don't like me drinking then I'll leave.  After rounds of this, was when I told him to F off and I left the room.
 

So...how often has "this dance" played out?  He drinks, you express disapproval, he claims not the boss of him, etc etc and you finally snap.

I'm guessing it has been going on for a while..right?  Can you even count how many times?  It's ok...I'm not trying to criticize you.  I am hoping you will see that "this way isn't productive".

So..even if you try something different and it falls flat..it's likely better than "f off"...right?

Yes..probably good for you to attempt some smaller things first.

What would you imagine those smaller things might be?

Best,

FF

[blackorchid]

So...how often has "this dance" played out?  He drinks, you express disapproval, he claims not the boss of him, etc etc and you finally snap.

I'm guessing it has been going on for a while..right?  Can you even count how many times?  It's ok...I'm not trying to criticize you.  I am hoping you will see that "this way isn't productive".

So..even if you try something different and it falls flat..it's likely better than "f off"...right?

Yes..probably good for you to attempt some smaller things first.

What would you imagine those smaller things might be?

Best,

FF

IT's happened far too many times, I know that and I know that it isn't productive but I have no idea what is or what would be better.

I feel like he is coming round...somewhat but something is still holding him back, so I don't know what to implement at the moment.

[Breakingpoint13]

blackorchid, please can you start working on yourself and knowing that you deserve so much better. Why do you believe you wont find better than this? We are only on this earth once, and we all deserve to have that filled with happiness and that stems from ourselves, no one else. When we realise how beautiful our souls and hearts are and that having empathy is a gift not a curse we all will find someone who appreciates that. You deserve a life not filled with happiness and security and admiration not this.

[blackorchid]

So, on Wednesday night he started messaging me asking me what I was doing, I said watching TV he replied, Ok Bitanem, which translates to my one and only. So its a very tender pet name.  It shocked me so much I didn't know what to reply.  He asked if he could come and see me... He started explaining about a big problem at work and that he was talking to work friends now, he'd come on the next service bus, which meant midnight... He had a day off on Thursday

He turned up drunk. Hugged me... got another pet name Hayatim (my life) and my love. He said he didn't feel well because he had drank so much and had ordered food. He then  passed out. When the food came, I unsucessfully tried to wake him. Then I just went to bed.

I left him sleeping on Thursday morning. It's clear that he has been drinking every night and not getting enough sleep... leading to the problems at work.

He started explaining the work problem and said they're right I have been drinking too much, hungover at work, late etc.  He then said (FINALLY) that he needs help and that he wants to stop drinking. He said he needs to see a psychiatrist and needs medication and can I help him. He went for a shower. I tried to get him an appointment but he said it was too expensive. Wouldn't accept any help. He looked at the state doctors but the nearest appointment was 13th August.  There were no appointments on a Monday which is his usual day off.

I'm wondering how to bring this up with him again and to make sure he makes and goes to an appointment...


He is obsessed still with the idea of this ex teammate getting him a job in England.  Saying lets go we can all live there with your mum! Yet, not having any conversation with me about where we are at.

He left to go to an appointment ... at the city football club, he's trying to become a football manager and had scouted a player for a tryout.

 I feel like he is jumping all over the place and scrambling at jobs...
 |--->a coach
 |--->a manager
 |--->his normal job
 |--->work experience in England
 |--->then he started talking about going to Ukraine in Sept to learn Russian, because he needs it in the hotel...

It's hard to keep up.


Later that evening he messaged me
Will I come home?
I said if you want to
He replied Maybe I will go to the work accommodation. I don't know yet
I said do you want to come here
He said I don't know, do you want me to?
Yes i said
he said, but i must go to the work accommodation.
I asked so why did you ask to come home
he replied, because I am indecisive, I always am.
I'll come another time

[blackorchid]

We spoke last night, messaging, calls and videos. He said he wanted to come home, that he loves me, can he come home. He said that we were ok, that we will be ok, That he misses me, wants us to be together.. etc etc etc

Today, he says that he was drunk and when he's drunk he will say anything.

He didn't seem drunk on the phone... or on the video calls...

I am beyond exhausted

[babyducks]

I am beyond exhausted

of course you are exhausted.   you have a lot going on.   and most of it difficult.

self care blackorchid.   lots and lots of self care.   what are you doing to take care of yourself...

[formflier]

I would like to hear about your self care as well.

Best,

FF