Exit plan: moving out after a dramatic incident

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Have you questioned your wife's ideas? ( not to her obviously, but just to yourself?). Her ideas about how men should behave, relationships, IMHO- what makes her the authority on what is loving for a man?

I know you are concerned for your kids. Kids learn about relationships from their parents. Your boys will one day be men, and they will grow up listening to her ideas about men.

One thing about my BPD mother is that her style of speaking to us is more like a lecture. Her ideas about things and what they need to be. She got a lot of them from the pop psychology of the current times. Often she will prompt me to agree with her. But what makes her the authority? She's only the authority if we give up our own judgment, but it's hard to hold on to that when she's talking at us.

I think you are correct about the "victim" status. My BPD mother prefers to be in victim position. If you show weakness, or even appear you are taking victim position, she becomes abusive. I think she sees this as a threat to her position.

[Notwendy]

Have you questioned your wife's ideas? ( not to her obviously, but just to yourself?). Her ideas about how men should behave, relationships, IMHO- what makes her the authority on what is loving for a man?

I know you are concerned for your kids. Kids learn about relationships from their parents. Your boys will one day be men, and they will grow up listening to her ideas about men.

One thing about my BPD mother is that her style of speaking to us is more like a lecture. Her ideas about things and what they need to be. She got a lot of them from the pop psychology of the current times. Often she will prompt me to agree with her. But what makes her the authority? She's only the authority if we give up our own judgment, but it's hard to hold on to that when she's talking at us.

I think you are correct about the "victim" status. My BPD mother prefers to be in victim position. If you show weakness, or even appear you are taking victim position, she becomes abusive. I think she sees this as a threat to her position.

[PeteWitsend]

...


One of the more strange results from last friday;

My wife says that she is so happy I left. She now feels like she can trust me more. She WANTS me to leave if we have a big fight again. It makes her feel validated that I don't stay and try to make her change her mind/mood - I take my responsibility and leave her alone. I'm not sure what to think about that.
...

That is an unusual response from her for sure.  Remember though, don't take everything a pwBPD says to you at face value.   

One thing that is consistent with them is inconsistency.

She may have some ulterior motive for you being gone.  Or be playing some sort of mental games.

That's not to say that removing yourself from a toxic situation was the wrong decision, just that you should not rely on her response to it, or take any meaning from it.

[FirstSteps]

I agree that the inconsistency will probably be the only consistent thing here.  But I also am deep in the middle of how complicated it is to get out of this situation or even see it clearly. For me, it's about enjoying the calm while also keeping my clarity.  These good days are good, and I get to rest and I get to hope she's changing for the better (because there are small signs of it).  But I'm still moving forward on taking care of myself and figuring out what I want.  And least that's what I'm telling myself as I don't leave  

[15years]

Now the latest development, yesterday she was calmly lecturing me about my behavior the recent days and I tried to not feed the fire. Eventually I ended up trying to present her my view and the discussion went on for too long. When I was about to sleep she wanted to share her feelings about something I did with my ex-girlfriend 16 years ago . I didn't validate her because I was irritated at this point. But I tried to de-escalate by bringing her a glass of water which ironically ended up poured over my face. But I think it helped to avoid more physical violence.

The talk switched to how much in shock she still is from the weekend and she tried to guilt me into calling in sick from work. This exact thing happened in nov-21 when I tried to leave her, "the shock" came a few days later, that time I did stay home from work three days. This time I didn't give that subject too much energy, instead I asked her if I should call her mother to ask if she could come and support her. That seemed to work as validation. I don't think she will ask her mother to come but either way is fine with me. It's nice to know I have this option to make her feel validated. I also asked her if she can take care of herself and our 2 yo. She told me "of course I can take care of him".

Interestingly she also stated somewhere in the middle of all this that "why don't you call someone this time!", and what she meant was, I have threatened to call the police and the social services a few times in violent situations, why wouldn't I call someone now when she was in distress. Does this mean something, that she is accepting the fact that she would need some help, mentally even? Or was it just to make me feel guilty (it didn't work if that was the case)?

She later was sad that she brought up the subject of my ex, and promised to never again in her life say her name. Because to her, that was one of the things she promised that she had forgiven me for this weekend. She wasn't asking me for forgiveness for breaking that promise, rather she was ashamed that she already broke that commitment.

[15years]

She still considers last weekend something I did to her. I mean, the 12 days before and including Friday, I've documented that she was physically violent 5 days, verbally or emotionally abusive (5)+4 days and calm 3 days. I guess I want to address how twisted that is and how strong the need to see herself as a victim is. And I guess it says something about me also.

And after the break that meant "now our relationship can start for real, I forgive you for everything", there was 3 peaceful days before the next physical attack...

[Notwendy]

I am going to address some of these:

Yesterday she was calmly lecturing me about my behavior the recent days

Eventually I ended up trying to present her my view and the discussion went on for too long.


When I was about to sleep she wanted to share her feelings about something I did with my ex-girlfriend 16 years ago . I didn't validate her because I was irritated at this point. But I tried to de-escalate by bringing her a glass of water which ironically ended up poured over my face. But I think it helped to avoid more physical violence.


She later was sad that she brought up the subject of my ex, and promised to never again in her life say her name.

Some possible suggestions for boundaries on your part ( you do them, you can't control her behavior)

Enough of the lecturing. You are not 5 years old. When the lecturing starts, either walk away or say "I don't wish to discuss this" and change the subject, walk away, do something else.
Eventually you tried to present your point of view. No, stop trying to do that. It adds fuel to the drama and it doesn't work in the moment.

When I was about to sleep No night discussions over controversial issues. That has to be a firm boundary, otherwise neither of you will get to sleep.

It's inappropriate to discuss who did what with who at age 15. Now that she has promised to not bring it up, your part is to also not discuss it and to hold her to this promise. Likely she will bring it up and your reply is "remember we are not going to discuss this topic" and that's all you say.

[Notwendy]

And after the break that meant "now our relationship can start for real, I forgive you for everything", there was 3 peaceful days before the next physical attack...

It's a cycle...

[livednlearned]

15years, are you meeting with your DV counselor today?

[15years]

Some possible suggestions for boundaries on your part ( you do them, you can't control her behavior)

I like these, thank you.

[15years]

15years, are you meeting with your DV counselor today?

Met with her on Tuesday, it was a good session where we addressed some of my guilt issues and I think I'm having a fresh perspective on them.

My guilt is one major thing that's keeping me from letting her take responsibility for her actions.

[livednlearned]

My guilt is one major thing that's keeping me from letting her take responsibility for her actions.

For some of us, feeling responsible = self worth. We like to feel like we're one up. It fuels a lot of the saver/rescuer/fixer types even if it's not something we are conscious of.

I didn't like being punished or yelled at, but I did believe my role was to perform at a higher level than my ex and fix/save/rescue because I had an outsized sense of my importance keeping the house and family intact.

When I look back now, it is laughable to think that was happening. I thought I protected my son from the worst, but in his teens he said to me, "I wish you protected me sooner." It was a gut punch.

The upside is that he recognized I protected him (by leaving). The downside was reckoning with the illusion that I was protecting him when he was little.

[15years]

For some of us, feeling responsible = self worth. We like to feel like we're one up. It fuels a lot of the saver/rescuer/fixer types even if it's not something we are conscious of.

I didn't like being punished or yelled at, but I did believe my role was to perform at a higher level than my ex and fix/save/rescue because I had an outsized sense of my importance keeping the house and family intact.

What steps did you go through to change your mindset? pwBPD doesn't enjoy this sense of importance, but ceasing to perform might also provoke them of course.

[livednlearned]

What steps did you go through to change your mindset? pwBPD doesn't enjoy this sense of importance, but ceasing to perform might also provoke them of course.

I had a reality check. Our home was so off the charts chaotic with my ex's alcoholism and my son's distress it was very obvious we were living in insanity. I was not able to fix or rescue or save anyone.

My ex was not violent like yours. He did what a therapist referred to as "environmental" violence, like throwing our dog against a wall or turning on/off light switches as I tried to sleep, hiding my purse, closing the door and crushing me in it as I passed through, throwing things near me that were meant to hit me, raising his hand as though he was going to hit me without doing so. When we met I talked about violence in my past, how I would respond as an adult and stand up for myself. But I didn't have an answer for this gray area violence and emotional/psychological abuse + substance abuse so that's where we stayed for a decade. We lived right up to my boundary, not an inch to spare and no further.

It was recognizing serious signs of distress in my son and trying to fix those issues within our family, and failing, that changed my mindset. I realized there were no options to parent him in healthy ways. His distress began to get the attention of teachers and others, so the sunlight started to shine on our dysfunction and that can be a Door A or Door B type of decision. Which one will you choose, the option that keeps the dysfunction in the dark, the living hell that any reasonable person could see is insanity, or the other option, the one that changes the script and brings in professionals who have therapeutic solutions.

I chose that door.

I put my son's needs first because I didn't know how to put mine first.

As your kids get older you will see the weight of their chaotic home life begin to express in troubling ways, most likely. If your wife doesn't allow sunlight into the home then you will have to find another way to get that light to your kids.

[15years]

As your kids get older you will see the weight of their chaotic home life begin to express in troubling ways, most likely. If your wife doesn't allow sunlight into the home then you will have to find another way to get that light to your kids.

Thank you for sharing your story.

It really makes me anxious to think about this. I kind of know where I'm headed, but I don't know how long it is before I'm ready. Meanwhile, both my wife and my oldest son is fantasizing about the possibility of another child.

[ForeverDad]

Enough of the lecturing. You are not 5 years old. When the lecturing starts, either walk away or say "I don't wish to discuss this" and change the subject, walk away, do something else.
Eventually you tried to present your point of view. No, stop trying to do that. It adds fuel to the drama and it doesn't work in the moment.

When I was about to sleep No night discussions over controversial issues. That has to be a firm boundary, otherwise neither of you will get to sleep.

Now that she has promised to not bring it up, your part is to also not discuss it and to hold her to this promise. Likely she will bring it up and your reply is "remember we are not going to discuss this topic" and that's all you say.

Ditto.  Happened to me.  I too had the late night ultimatums: "We are going to fix this tonight!"  Reality, it never got fixed.

One anniversary I brought home beautiful multi colored carnations.  The blooms were cut up and empty stalks displayed in the kitchen trash can.  How dare I not bring roses.

There were the months I relented and agreed to apologize.  So I did, virtually verbatim.  Then of course I missed including something.  So I repeated, but then missed something else.  I recall some instances where we circled around a half dozen times or more.  I saw it as so obvious, but she never noticed,she was that determined to get her apology, however meaningless it became.  Finally, I stated what I should have said before, I will apologize only when I see a need to apologize.  (Sadly, that was a countdown to my marriage's implosion and demise.)