cPTSD and BPd

[jaded7]

I've been a member here now 2 LONG years. I posted a long story at the beginning, full of things that happened, things she said, things she called me, etc. etc. I was in the deep throes of rumination and looking for validation from others that a) I wasn't crazy b) her behavior was consistent with BPD c)I'm not a bad person.

I know you all can relate to that. The rumination can be absolutely horrible and debilitating. Mine still goes on, but not as bad as it once was. I still carry a notebook with me and write out things that happened so I can somehow convince myself that these things were mean, abusive, dishonest...

This is a hard road.

My ex told me she has cPTSD. She said it came from her ex-husband who was physically and emotionally abusive. She said she had worked through it with EMDR. But/And...she was very verbally abusive when she got mad, she was really critical (after about 5 months), she was evasive with me, ghosted me often, gaslighted like crazy, etc. etc.

She once told someone by text, then forwarded that text to me later about something else in it,  that her cPTSD caused here to "be hyper vigilant" and "caused problems with interpersonal relationships".

We never spoke about this. She never again brought it up. Several times, in a nice calm, loving tone, I did tell her that the ghosting was hurtful and confusing, I told her that she was really critical of me (and notice that I don't do that to you?), I told her that cancelling plans last minute, or pretending to not remember them, was confusing, I told her that I could not bear the yelling and a few other things. Pretty much every time I brought these things up I was attacked, she got really angry, then gaslighted the heck out of the situation until I was confused and thought I had done something wrong.

I've read a lot about BPD, and I've seen some academic and popular press articles that say cPTSD and BPD are really the same thing, that the behaviors in both are so similar that even clinicians can't really differentiate them.

On a ruminative afternoon, when I'm missing her and feeling bad about myself, I'm finding myself grasping on to this. After all, she TOLD me she has cPTSD, clinicians think they are mostly the same, therefore I'M not crazy, I'm not imagining these things that happened, I'm not bad.

And so on. Has anybody else run into this? Where the partner has cPTSD but for all the world the behavior and thinking looks like BPD?

[SinisterComplex]

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=352545.0

I did a breakdown here in this thread. Perhaps you'll find something useful.

Just keep in mind...cPTSD and BPD get confused pretty much all the time. cPTSD, BPD, and Bi-Polar are commonly misdiagnosed.

I'll check back in when I get a bit more free time. In the meantime continue to vent and ask questions.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[jaded7]

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=352545.0

I did a breakdown here in this thread. Perhaps you'll find something useful.

Just keep in mind...cPTSD and BPD get confused pretty much all the time. cPTSD, BPD, and Bi-Polar are commonly misdiagnosed.

I'll check back in when I get a bit more free time. In the meantime continue to vent and ask questions.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

Thank you so much. I'll read that thread now.

2 YEARS+, can you believe I'm still here, still writing in my notebook, still missing her? I know a lot of the people here get it.

It helps me sometimes to write out the names she called me:

 I'm a "PLEASE READty driver", a "PLEASE READty businessman", "my place is a pigsty", I'm a "PLEASE READty marketer", my business is "stupid", I "sit around all day at coffee shops doing nothing" (I owned a business with 9 employees and 25 classes/week, I did all the hiring, training, scheduling, partnerships, programming, payroll, marketing, emails with clients and employees and interested potential customers and partners, cleaning of the studio, repair of the exercise equipment, planning special events, getting up at 5:20am, etc. etc.) my "birthday gift to her was PLEASE READty", the card was "stupid" my Christmas gift to her was "PLEASE READty", my friend/client is "a pompous ass", I "eat PLEASE READty food", "I'm a fraud wellness professional", "a liar", I "contribute nothing to the community", I "have no friends", I "don't take part in popular culture", I don't "even follow Megan Markle" (?), I "don't ever cook anything", I'm "a child" (because I didn't have a Google calendar when we met- after months of gaslighting me that I "ruined an entire summer" by not having a calendar and missing events, not true at all, I never missed anything, I made a Google calendar at a coffee shop WITH HER for the next summer, shared it through Google with her,  and she promptly cancelled at the last minute the first event, cancelled at the last second the second event, and 'forgot' (or 'didn't see it', or 'thought it was only for the day', depending on the excuse she gave) about the third event a weekend we planned at my place, then promptly exploded at me when I asked why she was going home), I dress badly, my "underwear are old man underwear"- as I standing there changing next to her-"don't I wear nice underwear for you?"

[SinisterComplex]

Thank you so much. I'll read that thread now.

2 YEARS+, can you believe I'm still here, still writing in my notebook, still missing her? I know a lot of the people here get it.

It helps me sometimes to write out the names she called me:

 I'm a "PLEASE READty driver", a "PLEASE READty businessman", "my place is a pigsty", I'm a "PLEASE READty marketer", my business is "stupid", I "sit around all day at coffee shops doing nothing" (I owned a business with 9 employees and 25 classes/week, I did all the hiring, training, scheduling, partnerships, programming, payroll, marketing, emails with clients and employees and interested potential customers and partners, cleaning of the studio, repair of the exercise equipment, planning special events, getting up at 5:20am, etc. etc.) my "birthday gift to her was PLEASE READty", the card was "stupid" my Christmas gift to her was "PLEASE READty", my friend/client is "a pompous ass", I "eat PLEASE READty food", "I'm a fraud wellness professional", "a liar", I "contribute nothing to the community", I "have no friends", I "don't take part in popular culture", I don't "even follow Megan Markle" (?), I "don't ever cook anything", I'm "a child" (because I didn't have a Google calendar when we met- after months of gaslighting me that I "ruined an entire summer" by not having a calendar and missing events, not true at all, I never missed anything, I made a Google calendar at a coffee shop WITH HER for the next summer, shared it through Google with her,  and she promptly cancelled at the last minute the first event, cancelled at the last second the second event, and 'forgot' (or 'didn't see it', or 'thought it was only for the day', depending on the excuse she gave) about the third event a weekend we planned at my place, then promptly exploded at me when I asked why she was going home), I dress badly, my "underwear are old man underwear"- as I standing there changing next to her-"don't I wear nice underwear for you?"

Actually Jaded it doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Your experience certainly sucked for you. However to provide some solace...it is not out of the ordinary here. By all means I get it.

Please be kind to YOU and take care of yourself.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[babyducks]

And so on. Has anybody else run into this? Where the partner has cPTSD but for all the world the behavior and thinking looks like BPD?

Hello jaded

my partner was diagnosed bipolar 1 comorbid with another illness most likely BPD but it was never entirely clear.   

BPD is very close to cPTSD.   BPD is also very close to NPD.   and several other illnesses on the B cluster.    Since we really know very little about the brain, there is no way to diagnose with absolute accuracy.    Nothing in life is really 100% accurate right?

from my experience, what I observed was that the chief difference between BPD and cPTSD is the unstable sense of self, the variable identity.    people with cPTSD typically have a fixed identity.    pwBPD are chameleons, changing often to morph into a new persona.     my Ex legally changed her name, at least three times.   each time moving from one very ethnic name to another.   

what was true for me was there was a lot of comparisons in my relationship.  who was the better person, who was the worse person, who was right and who was wrong, who was healthier and who was not.

Yes it stings to be called names.    but for me, those names and those slights found fertile ground in some one who had very little self esteem.   I really took them on board and they lingered.

in a way this was a hard relationship for me to recover from because it hooked into some of MY issues.   making them both better and worse at the same time.

make sense?

'ducks

[jaded7]

Hello jaded

my partner was diagnosed bipolar 1 comorbid with another illness most likely BPD but it was never entirely clear.    

BPD is very close to cPTSD.   BPD is also very close to NPD.   and several other illnesses on the B cluster.    Since we really know very little about the brain, there is no way to diagnose with absolute accuracy.    Nothing in life is really 100% accurate right?

from my experience, what I observed was that the chief difference between BPD and cPTSD is the unstable sense of self, the variable identity.    people with cPTSD typically have a fixed identity.    pwBPD are chameleons, changing often to morph into a new persona.     my Ex legally changed her name, at least three times.   each time moving from one very ethnic name to another.    

what was true for me was there was a lot of comparisons in my relationship.  who was the better person, who was the worse person, who was right and who was wrong, who was healthier and who was not.

Yes it stings to be called names.    but for me, those names and those slights found fertile ground in some one who had very little self esteem.   I really took them on board and they lingered.

in a way this was a hard relationship for me to recover from because it hooked into some of MY issues.   making them both better and worse at the same time.

make sense?

'ducks

This is helpful, thank you. I recognize, now, with a lot of therapy, that she tapped into some deep issues in me with all the blaming and name calling, the anger, etc.

It's as if my internal self simply assumed that she was right. I remember thinking, geez...I must not have a very good picture of myself. And believing if she was angry at me, I MUST have done something.

Of course, my hundreds of clients thought I was GREAT, thought my business was the best of it's sort in the whole country (the creator of the type of exercise my studio did is incredibly famous world-wide, and he and his friends told me I was the best in the country, and he invited my down to his house in Montecito for a special invitation-only world premier of his new piece of equipment. 30 people from around the world attended. My partner told me he was a "loser", and "no women are ever going to want to come to your business if you partner with him"- he had trained and taught literally hundreds of thousands of women all over the world-and she refused to come to the event where I had a room at a luxurious hotel on the beach in Santa Barbara "why would I want to come down there and sit around when you're in meetings all day- ummm, it's a beautiful hotel on the beach?) I have many friends from all phases of my life, I was a valued professor at a top national liberal arts college (she told me "do I really want to be the kind of person that doesn't read?" ummm..I have bookshelves full of advanced books in my condo?

Anyway, then I would try to figure out how I had screwed up. I was very confused, though, as you would all recognize, because the story she was telling me never really added up. I mean, I have a brain, I could remember most of these things and they were not the way she was describing them- I didn't say what she told me I said, I didn't do what she told me I did. Or...I DID do what she asked me to do, etc. etc.

re: cPTSD vs BPD...well, she seemed to have a very stable sense of self. Very critical, acted like she was better than me, acted like I was not responsible or healthy...but stable sense of self.

cPTSD does include the outrageous anger I believe, the projection (omg the projection...I told her in our last call-she broke up with me on the phone-that she yells at me and accuses and blows up at me for doing the very things she does. She said, very angrily, "Like what?". Gently, I pointed out some things and she just got more and more angry. It includes gaslighting and evasiveness and ghosting, I believe. Name calling, put downs.

[jaded7]

Actually Jaded it doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Your experience certainly sucked for you. However to provide some solace...it is not out of the ordinary here. By all means I get it.

Please be kind to YOU and take care of yourself.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

Thank you SC. I really appreciate it.

I think I have been getting more ruminative in the last few days since her birthday is today. That never went well, as I'm sure you can guess- I gave her the sh**tiest birthday ever, I put zero effort and planning into her birthday, my card was stupid, my gift was sh**ty. She tore me to shreds on the phone.

Of course, she completely forgot my birthday 5 weeks before that- while I was taking care of her dog for 3 weeks in my place for free (to save her $600 in boarding costs) while she traveled in the UK, where she told me "my ex bf lives .25 mile from where I'll be staying in Edinborough, maybe I'll visit him", while I bought $30 of food for her dog and took her for walks 3 times a day. She didn't send a card during her 3 weeks of traveling, she didn't send a gift, she didn't drop off a card or gift before she left, she didn't call a restaurant for a gift card, she called me on my birthday from there and we talked for an hour and I finally had to say that I think you forgot my birthday. When she got home she didn't make me dinner, take me to dinner, bring me a card, or take me to lunch...she brought back with her a tin of cookies from London "these are penance for forgetting your birthday".

Yet, 5 weeks later I actually remember her birthday, got her a little gift and a beautiful card I had spent time picking out and writing a heartfelt message on (we were camping and I had taken 3 days off work running my business, which took a lot of planning and cost me a lot of money)...she f**ing tore me to shreds.

[SinisterComplex]

Thank you SC. I really appreciate it.

I think I have been getting more ruminative in the last few days since her birthday is today. That never went well, as I'm sure you can guess- I gave her the sh**tiest birthday ever, I put zero effort and planning into her birthday, my card was stupid, my gift was sh**ty. She tore me to shreds on the phone.

Of course, she completely forgot my birthday 5 weeks before that- while I was taking care of her dog for 3 weeks in my place for free (to save her $600 in boarding costs) while she traveled in the UK, where she told me "my ex bf lives .25 mile from where I'll be staying in Edinborough, maybe I'll visit him", while I bought $30 of food for her dog and took her for walks 3 times a day. She didn't send a card during her 3 weeks of traveling, she didn't send a gift, she didn't drop off a card or gift before she left, she didn't call a restaurant for a gift card, she called me on my birthday from there and we talked for an hour and I finally had to say that I think you forgot my birthday. When she got home she didn't make me dinner, take me to dinner, bring me a card, or take me to lunch...she brought back with her a tin of cookies from London "these are penance for forgetting your birthday".

Yet, 5 weeks later I actually remember her birthday, got her a little gift and a beautiful card I had spent time picking out and writing a heartfelt message on (we were camping and I had taken 3 days off work running my business, which took a lot of planning and cost me a lot of money)...she f**ing tore me to shreds.

Jaded, you need to continue to do this. I have thoughts, but I am just pushing you along in your catharsis. In essence, keep at it and get rid of all this S you have trapped inside. That negative weight needs to be released. I am here to help you and listen. We all are here.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[jaded7]

Jaded, you need to continue to do this. I have thoughts, but I am just pushing you along in your catharsis. In essence, keep at it and get rid of all this S you have trapped inside. That negative weight needs to be released. I am here to help you and listen. We all are here.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

Thank you SC. I have ruminated on this and written it down and told my therapist and typed it in here. It grabs hold of me sometimes.

I'm OCD in some respects, had an emotionally neglectful and not great childhood, with some physical abuse and lots of explosive anger in the home; a brother in the home who is diagnosed with BPD (explosive anger, unpredictability, didn't say that, etc) that I had to share a room with and whose behavior was always blamed on ME...why can't I be more tolerant, why can't you two get along; throw in some sexual abuse by a priest and the neighbor kid for good measure.

I was a GOOD kid. I was kind to everyone, had a special place in my heart for kids who were 'different' or bullied, was nice to everyone and thoughtful. I, even at a young age, had a very kind heart and wanted to help people feel ok. Because I knew I never had that.

Anyway, I was fu**ing primed for this relationship. All I tried to do is love her and be there for her.

She couldn't care less about my experience of things, yelled at me frequently, put me down and mocked me and my friends and business and clothes and handwriting and marketing and family and driving and interests and how I talked to customers and employees and my underwear and ...and...

I spent hours and hours listening to her talk about her life, her challenges, her struggles...wanting her to feel heard and understood. If I brought up things in my life? Cut off, told I don't have the time for this, "I though I told you to...", "you don't listen to me.." Or, better yet, just ignore my calls for days...but then call me to b*tch about your ex-husband again for an hour.

F**k.

[Couscous]

The diagnosis doesn’t matter. All that matters is that she is verbally abusive.

I was able to stop ruminating when I accepted my powerlessness over other people.

[jaded7]

The diagnosis doesn’t matter. All that matters is that she is verbally abusive.

I was able to stop ruminating when I accepted my powerlessness over other people.

Thank you Couscous. You are absolutely right. In fact, it is something I tell my good friend who is going through something similar with his partner, but it is much worse. Like many of us, he is stuck; confused, hurt, sad. I would tell him the exact same thing. But like us, he is trauma bonded, caught in intermittent reinforcement, in FOG.

I am powerless to get her to be able to see me, hear me, respect me. I am powerless to get her to see that I loved her. I am powerless to make her see that calling me names and putting me and everything else about my life is hurtful. I am powerless to make her understand that I have no desire to hurt her. I am powerless to get her to see that I'm a good person who works hard.

She has that power, she alone. And it is more important to her to tell herself stories about me that aren't true, to put me down and spurn my love, to see things that aren't there, to get angry at things I did not do, to tell me what I am feeling and what my intentions were.

I guess that is the nature of the cPTSD/BPD problem in a nutshell.

[SinisterComplex]

Thank you Couscous. You are absolutely right. In fact, it is something I tell my good friend who is going through something similar with his partner, but it is much worse. Like many of us, he is stuck; confused, hurt, sad. I would tell him the exact same thing. But like us, he is trauma bonded, caught in intermittent reinforcement, in FOG.

I am powerless to get her to be able to see me, hear me, respect me. I am powerless to get her to see that I loved her. I am powerless to make her see that calling me names and putting me and everything else about my life is hurtful. I am powerless to make her understand that I have no desire to hurt her. I am powerless to get her to see that I'm a good person who works hard.

She has that power, she alone. And it is more important to her to tell herself stories about me that aren't true, to put me down and spurn my love, to see things that aren't there, to get angry at things I did not do, to tell me what I am feeling and what my intentions were.

I guess that is the nature of the cPTSD/BPD problem in a nutshell.

So jaded my friend the best thing you can do for you is to practice learning the art of not giving a S ! I'm serious. Never ever let anyone have dominion over you. I think you know this, but you cannot put it into practice. Figure out what is blocking you from doing that. She does not have that much power over as you think. Only if you let her.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[jaded7]

So jaded my friend the best thing you can do for you is to practice learning the art of not giving a S ! I'm serious. Never ever let anyone have dominion over you. I think you know this, but you cannot put it into practice. Figure out what is blocking you from doing that. She does not have that much power over as you think. Only if you let her.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

Radical acceptance, know thyself, trust myself. Yes...

To be clear, she and only she has the power to change her thinking and her behavior, it is her misunderstanding and her verbal abuse...it is not mine.

I cannot let her define me or my intentions. I did give her that power, and it hurt me profoundly.

That's the nature of power I was talking about. I have the power to believe in who I am and what my intentions are.

One time we had a plan to go berry picking early one morning, I happily agreed and did some arranging with others to come in and open up my business so I could have the morning with her. I was excited and happy. She called last second and cancelled because it was misting out and she said that berry picking is not good in those conditions since the berries get wet or something? Didn't make sense to me, but I believed it and said "well, we're both up and free this morning, let's go get breakfast and coffee and go for a walk". She said "ok, let me take a quick shower and I'll call you".

3+ HOURS later, she calls. There was no need, then, for me to arrange someone to come in, I paid someone extra to come in, that person rearranged her schedule to come in, and I made my business look less than professional since there was only one person to check in and teach.

I told her on the phone, calmly, lovingly "honey, I'm a bit annoyed now. You said that you'd take a quick shower and call me, and it's been 3 hours and I didn't need to (all the above). I thought that was good relational communication, sharing calmly and not angrily how it felt to sit for 3 hours waiting for her.

She exploded. An hour long 'fight" ensued, one in which I was asking what the definition of the words "I'll take a quick shower and give you a call" meant, in the context of "hey, we're up let's go get breakfast and coffee since I'm free this morning". Deflection, denial, anger, accusations, etc.

The next day she said to me "I'm surprised you brought that up yesterday". As in, it's surprising to me that you would call me on my sh*t, it's surprising to me that you would stand up for yourself, it's surprising to me that you would risk telling me that something I did was hurtful or annoying.

No apology, no acknowledgement, no understanding. That should have told me something.