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Author Topic: >Does this sound like BPD  (Read 1337 times)
Gutt3rSnipe
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« on: January 26, 2023, 11:58:55 PM »

Hello everyone! As someone who just got out of a relationship with a girl suffering with potential untreated bpd. I just want to share my experience with everyone and see what they think. To start, I’m a 30 year old man who met this 23 year old girl at my job and she immediately took a strong liking to me. She was very open about her life and told me things she probably shouldn’t have told someone she barely knew.

After long, she kinda pushed her way into making me drive her home after work every day. I found out during this time that she had a fiancé that she was in the process of officially leaving because their relationship was “toxic/abusive”. She would constantly tell me I’m perfect in her eyes and pretended to be interested in things I was interested in (found this out later). Things progressed, I really thought this girl was pretty amazing. We got along well and she was very affectionate and personable. I eventually asked her to be my girlfriend and she was overjoyed and accepted eagerly. Honestly, things were great and relatively normal aside from her testing me. She would tell me things like “I met someone new, I hope you don’t mind because I didn’t think we were exclusive” Or things about her how she might get back with her ex fiancé to try and she how I’d react. Annoying and a bit childish, but I put up with it. The obvious lies were a bit stranger though. I won’t go into detail but they were more than likely fake stories. No idea to this day why she decided to say some of those things. More testing possibly.?

That strangeness aside, things progressed really nicely. Me and her got along extremely well and could talk about anything with each other. We went on dates, hung out with her friends, and basically had a good time together. One of these times we were hanging out watching tv she told me she loved me. It was around the two month mark I believe.. Fast, I know, but it seemed so right at the time. I was overjoyed thinking I might have finally found true love, as I felt the same. She clearly had issues, she explained she had lots of baggage and warned me that some people thought she was crazy. It was said in a kinda joking way, so I just took it as a joke and brushed off her warnings. I thought to myself, this girl seems relatively normal to me, why would anyone say she’s crazy? (The testing and fake stories didn’t register in my mind for some reason during this time, love blind maybe)

Some time passed with little incident until things started changing for the worst. I started realizing something else seemed kinda off with her. She would get offended very easily, and threatened to ditch me once over something someone said about me trying to get with alot of the young girls at work. I calmed her down and explained that it was false. I still don’t know if she made that story up as another test.. She also got mad at me a couple of times and threatened to kick me out of her house on more then one occasion. Still despite this worrying behavior from her, I pushed on. Mainly because I was already in love with her, despite her increasingly bizarre behavior she was showing. Then came the suicide threats. She would  send me text messages saying how she was going to commit suicide because she always felt empty and depressed and she wasn’t getting any better. She stated she’ll always be with me in spirit. She got the cops called on her at work by her ex for sending him the same suicidal text messages to him a couple of days after she sent hers to me. These got her fired. I was terrified, I thought back on the times she said she was crazy..

After all that happened it seemed her depression and symptoms got worse.. She had a terrible spending problem and would online shop her money away. The money she didn’t spend on shopping was spent on weed and vapes. During this spiral she broke things off with me stating “her mental health was declining and she needed time to get healthy”. The weird part was that me and her still hung out and acted like a couple after that. We would cuddle, kiss, have sex, and tell each other we loved each other. Literally nothing changed except the title. All those red flags and for some reason I stuck by her side thinking she was just going through a stressful time in her life. I had no plans on leaving her. (Clearly LOVE BLIND)

About another month of this and things began to really take a sharp nose dive in our relationship. It all started when I forgot about a date that we had planned to make ginger bread houses together. I had a long day at work and had some personal things going on that day so I completely forgot. When I get home I decide to send her a text saying “I miss you”. Boy did she flip out on me. You would think she just caught me cheating on her with how she acted. Her whole demeanor & attitude towards me completely changed. I didn’t think this was a huge deal, little did I know it was just the beginning of the end. She said I played with and disregarded her feelings, and this missed date wasn’t the only thing I did to wrong her. The sad part is, this was the only thing, I literally have no idea what else I did wrong to cause this behavior shift. Things didn’t improve, I began to feel a coldness from her that was a far far cry from the person she showed herself to be during the start.

From that day onwards it’s been a gradual decline in our relationship. I increasingly was downgraded more and more each encounter it seemed. From her super man to just some guy she thought was psychically attractive, a disappointment,  just like every other guy she said. She told me “I thought you were different, but I was wrong again”. I didn’t understand what the hell was going on and couldn’t get a straight answer out of her. The text messages started getting colder and less romantic. Before she would use lots of emojis and hearts, now just plain, sometimes one word messages. The harder I would try the more she would push me away. There was glimpses of what we use to have, but very few and far in between. Before I knew it I was being openly “friend zoned”. She would constantly tell me I screwed everything up when we were together so she can’t be blamed. Her anger would turn to absolute rage at me for things that shouldn’t have warranted a response like the one she gave. I was a pos, bastard, gave off douche bag vibes, immature, etc when she got upset. Im not entirely sure why I took this verbal abuse like I did. In hindsight i shouldn’t have, but I was confused wanting that sweet and caring girl back again. Unfortunately, she never came back…

From then on everything between us got worse and worse until she finally decided we can’t be friends anymore because I’m too clingy/annoying. Me and her still text occasionally but it’s nothing serious like it use to be. In fact, I’m pretty sure she’s in the process of getting back with her “abusive” ex fiancé. Go figure. Honestly, this whole situation has left me utterly drained and depressed. This women went from “I love you so much, you’re perfect in my eyes“ to “I cant stand you, we’ll never work out, so stop trying a**hole” in 4 or 5 months. When I would try and bring it up on why exactly she broke it off to get some clarity, she would just curse me out and give me the same old answer. I’ve never been more dumbfounded. I went from soulmate to someone she could barely tolerate to talk to for…..nothing serious essentially..

Does this sound like borderline personality to you guys? It certainly does to me as I read up on it a bit. I know from her stories she told me that she was neglected by her mother and sexual abused when she was very young. Any insight would be very appreciated y’all. This whole thing has really taken a huge toll on me. Thanks.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2023, 03:20:29 PM by Gutt3rSnipe » Logged
Pook075
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« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2023, 07:45:13 AM »

Hi and welcome to the forums.  Many of us can relate to your experience, but I'd caution labeling it BPD and I definitely would not mention it to her since it would make matters much worse (for you and her).  In general though, she does check several boxes- fear of abandonment, suicidal ideation, low self esteem, the push/pull relationship dynamic, etc.

One other thought and you may not like this.  Are you sure the ex fiancé is abusive, or is she just saying that to get sympathy from you?  I wouldn't count that as a definite unless you've seen actual proof.  Once someone is "painted black", a pwBPD will say all sorts of nasty things about them to justify their warped viewpoints.  Many of us here have experienced that firsthand after 5, 10, 20+ year marriages...the things we get accused of is mind-boggling.

If this is BPD, it's very possible you were the rebound person and she does go back to the fiancé.  Probably not what you want to hear, but I think it's important for you to fully grasp the situation.  This does not sound like the start of a healthy relationship, even though it may have felt wonderful at times.  Please proceed with caution, my friend.

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PeteWitsend
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« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2023, 11:09:13 AM »

Welcome, @Gutt3rSnipe!

sorry you went through this... but yeah, I'd agree this sounds like a fairly clear case of BPD.  Like almost a textbook case, hitting all the criteria.

Be glad you found this out relatively early compared to some of us here.  And be very glad you didn't marry her, and be super extra glad you never had children with her.  In fact, pat yourself on the back.

I also agree with Pook's comment below, and will add...

...

One other thought and you may not like this.  Are you sure the ex fiancé is abusive, or is she just saying that to get sympathy from you?  I wouldn't count that as a definite unless you've seen actual proof.  Once someone is "painted black", a pwBPD will say all sorts of nasty things about them to justify their warped viewpoints.  Many of us here have experienced that firsthand after 5, 10, 20+ year marriages...the things we get accused of is mind-boggling.

If this is BPD, it's very possible you were the rebound person and she does go back to the fiancé.  Probably not what you want to hear, but I think it's important for you to fully grasp the situation.  This does not sound like the start of a healthy relationship, even though it may have felt wonderful at times.  Please proceed with caution, my friend.


... pwBPD are NOTORIOUSLY unreliable witnesses.  

Consider anything they tell you, especially about former lovers/spouses/partners to be untrue, unless you have objective evidence corroborating it.  

Also: nothing is ever their fault.

sometimes they rebound back and forth, but depending on how it ended, they may also just move on to new people, knowing that they wore out their welcome, and the Ex- was not willing to tolerate the "BPD experience" as I'd call it, anymore.  so they have to move on to someone new, who becomes their "rescuer"
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 11:15:55 AM by PeteWitsend » Logged
Gutt3rSnipe
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« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2023, 01:14:02 PM »

Thanks so much for the welcome and the replies! I have the utmost sympathy for you guys who’ve gone through this for long periods with your partners. A couple months of this and I’m spent emotionally.

Also, I forgot to mention on how she absolutely hated her appearance mosty.. For example, when we would FaceTime she would only show her forehead or the wall. When I would ask her why she’d always say something bad about her appearance. Another strange thing is how she would seemingly change her personality sometimes. Sometimes she would act “ghetto” (don’t know how else to describe it Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)) around me or her friend. and other times sweet, and drop the accent altogether.I was perplexed by both these behaviors until I learned about BPD.

As to the fiancé question and the supposed abuse. The only proof I have is a hurt hand/wrist she braced up after a psychical altercation they had. It did look bruised but who knows if she was lying about how it happened or not. He did seem controlling and aggressive in his text and calls when me and her were together. He eventually found out about me and her after she broke it off with him a couple months after. He threatened to fight me and had his sister (he’s not on Facebook) Facebook call me multiple times to try and find me/her. Other than that I have no real way of knowing if he’s abusive or violent to her other than what she’s told me.

I have come to the unfortunate realization that I probably was  just a side guy for her. I have no idea why she went to the lengths she did  to make me fall for her if that’s all I was gonna be though. She still claims she did love me until I messed it up. I’m not an expert on love by any means but I’m pretty sure that was the idealized version of me she “loved”. Once she realized I was indeed a human being with flaws and weaknesses she stopped.

 

« Last Edit: February 14, 2023, 12:38:57 AM by Gutt3rSnipe » Logged
Pook075
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« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2023, 01:27:17 PM »

Thanks so much for the welcome and the replies! I have the utmost sympathy for you guys who’ve gone through this for long periods with your partners. A couple months of this and I’m spent emotionally.

Also, I forgot to mention on how she would absolutely hated her appearance most of the time. For example, when we would FaceTime she would only show her forehead or the wall. When I would ask her why she’d always say something bad about herself. Another strange thing I forgot to mention is how she would seemingly change her personality sometimes. Sometimes she would act “ghetto”, other times sweet and innocent and drop the accent. I was extremely confused by both these behaviors until I learned about BPD. Is this common place in the disorder in your experience?

As to the fiancé question and the supposed abuse. The only proof I have is a hurt hand/wrist she braced up after a psychical altercation they had. It did look bruised but who knows if she was lying about how it happened or not. He did seem controlling and aggressive in his text and calls when me and her were together. He eventually found out about me and her after she broke it off with him a couple months after. He threatened to fight me and had his sister (he’s not on Facebook) Facebook call me multiple times to try and find me/her. Other than that I have no real way of knowing if he’s abusive or violent to her other than what she’s told me.

I have come to the unfortunate realization that I probably was  just a rebound guy for her. I have no idea why she went to the lengths she did  to make me fall for her if that’s all I was gonna be though. She still claims she did love me until I messed it up. I’m not an expert on love by any means but I’m pretty sure that was the idealized version of me she “loved”. Once she realized I was indeed a human being with flaws and weaknesses she stopped.

So sorry brother, we've all been there and it's gut-wrenching.  Whether you're the rebound or the new squeeze (LoL, couldn't think of a better term), it hurts us all just the same.

I did want to answer one question though- why she did what she did.  Her feelings for you were genuine the whole time- the love, the hate, the feelings of rejection.  Folks with BPD run 100% on feelings and they never shut off.  Combine that with a warped self image and an intense fear of abandonment, and you're starting to get a glimpse of why these relationships seem to fall apart out of nowhere.  For her, it was very, very real and way more intense that you ever realized.
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kells76
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« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2023, 01:31:07 PM »

Hi Gutt3rSnipe, I want to join with the others in welcoming you to the group  Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

You've certainly been through the wringer, with the fast-paced relationship, the other guy/fiance, the emotional intensity, and the rage.

Am I reading you correctly that you're very done with the relationship, and what you're looking for right now is a place to process, share, and learn, without going back?

If so, what I'll probably do for you is transfer this thread over to our "Detaching and Learning..." board -- you'll get more targeted feedback and discussion there for your particular situation.

Also, if you haven't had a chance to check out our Lessons section there yet, give it a look -- a lot of the lessons, especially the one on BPD behaviors, sound right up your alley.

Again, glad you found us;

kells76
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SaltyDawg
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« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2023, 02:04:48 PM »

Welcome to the BPD 'family'.

Sounds like you dodged a bullet and are trying to process the 'why's.  Consider yourself lucky, I am still in a 22 year prison of FOG - fear, obligation, and guilt.

I would like to add you may want to read section 1 of Randi Kreger's book "Stop Walking on Eggshells" 3rd edition as it has an assessment section on if she was a borderline, or even possibly NPD as they present in similar ways.
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Gutt3rSnipe
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« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2023, 10:38:33 PM »

Thanks for the welcoming! It feels good to know there’s others out there who understand the pain that this disorder can bring on those not even personally suffering from it.

Apart of me wishes she gets the help she needs to become healthy and we end up together some day. The other part of me, The realist, knows she’ll more likely go back and stay with her ex fiancé and boyfriend of 5 years. I mean If a persons main fear is abandonment it makes sense you’d stay with the safer bet that has already stuck it out with you for that long.

I have a question. Do pwBPD usually come back to a person they previously were involved with or do they search for new? I’m sure it’s case by case and depends on the person but I’m jw about your guy’s experiences in regards to that.

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yellowbutterfly
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« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2023, 10:44:40 PM »


... pwBPD are NOTORIOUSLY unreliable witnesses.  

Consider anything they tell you, especially about former lovers/spouses/partners to be untrue, unless you have objective evidence corroborating it.  

Also: nothing is ever their fault.
"

This is the most accurate statement I have ever read about dealing with a person with BPD. My stbx H uBPD was always the victim, and his version of reality was never accurate, nor true!!!! I even witnessed his distortions first hand. Everything in his life was a lie, and he was living in the reality he created. Scary.
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yellowbutterfly
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« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2023, 10:52:20 PM »

... She still claims she did love me until I messed it up. I’m not an expert on love by any means but I’m pretty sure that was the idealized version of me she “loved”. Once she realized I was indeed a human being with flaws and weaknesses she stopped.

I think you were really onto something here regarding the idealized version of you and then the devaluation phase. I also think that you should read the eggshell book. When I read it, it gave so much more clarity to what I went through. my stbx H always made everything in the relationship my fault, and that I had messed it up. I didn’t mess it up nor did you! Sadly we were both in relationships with partners who are likely mentally ill.

I’d suggest to read more here on the boards and in the book. It will help explain so much of what you are already catching onto.
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Turkish
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« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2023, 08:58:11 PM »


Apart of me wishes she gets the help she needs to become healthy and we end up together some day.

Nothing wrong with that. You still care about her.

As for BPD, 30 and 23 doesn't seem to me to be that much of a gap. I got together with my ex when I was just 37 and she was just 26 though we had known each other a few months. Don't discount emotional Immaturity. Yet what all you describe sounds BPD-ish.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-borderline-personality-disorder

Excerpt
I have a question. Do pwBPD usually come back to a person they previously were involved with or do they search for new? I’m sure it’s case by case and depends on the person but I’m jw about your guy’s experiences in regards to that.

There's no script, but be prepared. I was 41, my ex 31, and her beau 21 whom she left me for. At the time, our kids were 1 and just turned 4. Two of my friends told me she'd eventually want to come back. I thought they were nuts. My ex told me many of the things your gf did.  She married the guy and it later imploded. 4 years later she asked to come back, separated but still legally married.

These types of situations are inflection points where we need to look inward and value ourselves and what we want and need rather than being wrapped up in caretaking others at the expense of ourselves.

I said no.
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« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2023, 09:38:15 PM »

I have a question. Do pwBPD usually come back to a person they previously were involved with or do they search for new? I’m sure it’s case by case and depends on the person but I’m jw about your guy’s experiences in regards to that.

Look up the narcissistic love bombing cycle. This is also applicable to the borderline.

Love bombing ==> devalue ==> discard ==> rinse and repeat

The rinse and repeat holds true unless they find somebody else.

So you are that somebody else with her ex fiance of 5 years.  So, if the ex is available when she does the rinse and repeat with him, you will be discarded.  If the ex is NOT available, then you may become the attention of the 'rinse and repeat', or she can find some new 'toy' to play with.  That is the nature of the 2nd symptom of borderlines - unstable relationships.

Not worth it, IMHO.
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Gutt3rSnipe
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« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2023, 11:41:05 PM »

[
Nothing wrong with that. You still care about her.

As for BPD, 30 and 23 doesn't seem to me to be that much of a gap. I got together with my ex when I was just 37 and she was just 26 though we had known each other a few months. Don't discount emotional Immaturity. Yet what all you describe sounds BPD-ish.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-borderline-personality-disorder

There's no script, but be prepared. I was 41, my ex 31, and her beau 21 whom she left me for. At the time, our kids were 1 and just turned 4. Two of my friends told me she'd eventually want to come back. I thought they were nuts. My ex told me many of the things your gf did.  She married the guy and it later imploded. 4 years later she asked to come back, separated but still legally married.

These types of situations are inflection points where we need to look inward and value ourselves and what we want and need rather than being wrapped up in caretaking others at the expense of ourselves.

I said no.


I really do still care for her deeply. Honestly, I wish I didn’t care for her like I do because I now know the horror stories people with this disorder put people involved with them through. On a positive note, she’s apparently getting mental help soon so she needs to stick with it once she starts.

Thanks for sharing your story with me though man. You’re definitely strong for having endured all that with your ex wife.Good on you for saying no too!

 I am preparing myself for the day she try’s to reignite the relationship. I just don’t think I can deal with this rollercoaster again . If she does ever come back I just hope she’s in therapy. Like you said, we have to know our value and I value myself way too much to put my mind through the wringer again.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2023, 12:07:02 AM by Gutt3rSnipe » Logged
SinisterComplex
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« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2023, 02:25:03 AM »

Nothing wrong with that. You still care about her.

As for BPD, 30 and 23 doesn't seem to me to be that much of a gap. I got together with my ex when I was just 37 and she was just 26 though we had known each other a few months. Don't discount emotional Immaturity. Yet what all you describe sounds BPD-ish.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-borderline-personality-disorder

There's no script, but be prepared. I was 41, my ex 31, and her beau 21 whom she left me for. At the time, our kids were 1 and just turned 4. Two of my friends told me she'd eventually want to come back. I thought they were nuts. My ex told me many of the things your gf did.  She married the guy and it later imploded. 4 years later she asked to come back, separated but still legally married.

These types of situations are inflection points where we need to look inward and value ourselves and what we want and need rather than being wrapped up in caretaking others at the expense of ourselves.

I said no.

So what big brother Turk has said is the route I would go as in what do you really want? What do you feel you deserve? Instead of playing doormat and being a caretaker choose what you want to do in life because you want to do it! Also, realize you cannot save other people, only yourself, and other people's feelings and emotions are not your responsibility but their own as your feelings and emotions are your own responsibility.

Instead of wondering whether or not she will come back, etc focus on being indifferent about it...meaning you are not swayed one way or the other. This will lead you into what I try to help many discover...outcome independence.

Essentially what you will gather is that the ideal you want to aspire for is for relationships to become based on WANT and not NEED.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-
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« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2023, 11:25:56 AM »

... Her feelings for you were genuine the whole time- the love, the hate, the feelings of rejection.  Folks with BPD run 100% on feelings and they never shut off.  ....

When I first learned about BPD, I struggled with this concept, and also with the saying "feelings are facts."

There was so much outright dishonesty from BPDxw, that I couldn't square that with the idea that she truly believed the things she was claiming or the feelings that were driving her.  If she was honest about her feelings, didn't I then have a duty to try to accommodate them?

But the thing is, her feelings were irrational, and also shifted far more rapidly than a healthy adult.  And she would badly misjudge how I was feeling, or my motivations, making any attempt at accommodating her an exercise in futility.

I recall one time, on an otherwise happy occasion taking our child to visit her first school, when I checked my phone (it was a work day, and so I was getting work emails).  She flew into a rage, demanding to know who was "texting me," see my phone, and just kinda ranted at me, almost incoherently, as she followed me out the door and then slammed it in my face.

I guess she really did suddenly believe I was having an affair (???) and that was "proof," but it doesn't justify her behavior or excuse it.  
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Gutt3rSnipe
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« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2023, 05:42:09 PM »

From what I’m gathering learning more and more about the disorder is that delusional thinking is a characteristic of those suffering. That could be the reason why your ex acted the way she did? I’ve heard people that have bdp tend to overuse the part of the brain that controls feelings/emotions and under use the part that controls logical thinking. That explains the behavior.
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SinisterComplex
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« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2023, 02:56:37 AM »

From what I’m gathering learning more and more about the disorder is that delusional thinking is a characteristic of those suffering. That could be the reason why your ex acted the way she did? I’ve heard people that have bdp tend to overuse the part of the brain that controls feelings/emotions and under use the part that controls logical thinking. That explains the behavior.

You are kinda on the right track. BPD sufferers unfortunately are not normal and how their brains are wired are literally atypical. Now before any blanket assumptions are made not all BPD sufferers are the same. There may be similarities but they are still individual people with different genetic makeups and dispositions which would explain various different variables. That isn't to say their S Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post) behaviors are to be excused or accepted though. No, it is just a reminder that you cannot have the same expectations as you would with someone who is neurotypical.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-
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« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2023, 09:40:10 AM »

There are bits and pieces of information about BPD that seem consistent.  There's a genetic component, and also BPD-ers sometimes or maybe often experienced childhood trauma: abuse, abandonment or both.

To the extent their disordered behavior is not 100% genetic, I'd imagine growing up in a world where abuse and abandonment are present would condition a young, impressionable mind to live in a world where that's all they expect.  And they learn to do what they have to do to survive: manipulate everyone around them. 

In such cases, they never have the opportunity to mature emotionally, and learn the sort of patience, compassion and most importantly, TRUST, necessary to have healthy adult relationships.

And that seems consistent to me with what I saw and learned about BPDxw, her past, and how she reacted and behaved. 

All this also underscores how difficult it is to "treat" or recover from BPD: imagine how much therapy and help is necessary to overcome years of experienced trauma?  Especially since those years are often during childhood when the mind is most impressionable. 

That sort of therapy would be expensive, and from what I've seen, no "hour of talking to a bored psychologist for a $30 copay" is going to be anywhere near enough to even make a "dent" in the disorder.  And will probably be even worse... I know BPDxw would use her T sessions solely to validate her disordered claims and thoughts.  and if the T focused on her behavior, she'd just stop going.  Before she met me, she'd tell me her therapy sessions were about how her parents screwed her up and let her down.  After she met me, it was all about how I caused her grief by "not supporting her enough" or "betraying her trust."

And I imagine she's only doing that now with her new guy, except for the random times she sends me a bunch of angry texts about something (which I ignore).
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« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2023, 12:48:29 PM »

There are bits and pieces of information about BPD that seem consistent.  There's a genetic component, and also BPD-ers sometimes or maybe often experienced childhood trauma: abuse, abandonment or both.

To the extent their disordered behavior is not 100% genetic, I'd imagine growing up in a world where abuse and abandonment are present would condition a young, impressionable mind to live in a world where that's all they expect.  And they learn to do what they have to do to survive: manipulate everyone around them. 

In such cases, they never have the opportunity to mature emotionally, and learn the sort of patience, compassion and most importantly, TRUST, necessary to have healthy adult relationships.

And that seems consistent to me with what I saw and learned about BPDxw, her past, and how she reacted and behaved. 

All this also underscores how difficult it is to "treat" or recover from BPD: imagine how much therapy and help is necessary to overcome years of experienced trauma?  Especially since those years are often during childhood when the mind is most impressionable. 

That sort of therapy would be expensive, and from what I've seen, no "hour of talking to a bored psychologist for a $30 copay" is going to be anywhere near enough to even make a "dent" in the disorder.  And will probably be even worse... I know BPDxw would use her T sessions solely to validate her disordered claims and thoughts.  and if the T focused on her behavior, she'd just stop going.  Before she met me, she'd tell me her therapy sessions were about how her parents screwed her up and let her down.  After she met me, it was all about how I caused her grief by "not supporting her enough" or "betraying her trust."

And I imagine she's only doing that now with her new guy, except for the random times she sends me a bunch of angry texts about something (which I ignore).
My daughter has largely recovered from BPD.  She has a dual diagnosis with bipolar so it's hard to say which is which, but she used to hate her mom and I with a passion- her sessions were used to bash me and validate her feelings.  Yet many years later, we are close friends and share everything with each other.  I'm not her favorite person, but I'm probably in the top-3.  Her life isn't perfect and she still has some very rough days, but the overall improvements are mind blowing.

The thing is, my kid spent years and years saying it was someone else's fault...never herself.  But that changed maybe a year ago or a little more, she started putting in the work on herself and trying to move past all the trauma and anger.  Within 6 months she was a different person entirely- she's the kid I always wanted.

I shared that for everyone to make one critical point- therapy is useless if the person attending doesn't want to change.  But once they're ready, big changes can occur fairly quick.  My BPD wife is still in denial and there's nothing anyone can do.  She'll suffer until she realizes that she self-destructs on everything around her.

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« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2023, 04:50:10 PM »

yikes.

that's good to hear about your daughter's progress.  When was she diagnosed?  is that around when you saw her symptoms start?

Sounds like with a BPD mom it was probably genetic?
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« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2023, 01:34:07 AM »

From what I’ve read about the disorder it seems there is a genetic component, but the disorder stems from early childhood trauma.
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« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2023, 07:52:31 AM »

yikes.

that's good to hear about your daughter's progress.  When was she diagnosed?  is that around when you saw her symptoms start?

Sounds like with a BPD mom it was probably genetic?

For my kid, I knew when she was very young- maybe 7 or 8 years old.  A few of the little girls at her birthday party got into an argument (like little kids do), and I made them all apologize and make up.  They did, but my kid refused because she didn't know how- she was furious and couldn't let it go.  We ended up sending her to her room at her own birthday party, and told her she couldn't come out until she apologized.  It never happened.

She was unofficially diagnosed around 16...can't be official until 18 because it stays for life.  But from 15-20, she was on an incredibly destructive path and raged against any sort of authority.  Countless in-house stays, trips to the ER, running away from home, weak suicide attempts, etc.  And every step of the way, they told us the same thing- she's just manipulating everyone around her with no interest in getting better. 

I'm not sure if this is easier or harder for me going thru this with two people I love.  On one hand, I can ask my daughter how she feels about something and get invaluable insight into my wife.  My kid still can't forgive once she's painted someone black...she just doesn't know how.  They did this, this, and that and I hope they die.  I'm working on her with that still, but it's a very slow process since she has to get there on her own.  But she's done CBT (helped a little), some DBT (helped a lot), plus she's seeing a counselor regularly.

With my wife, I don't see any path to reconcile right now.  But there is a path there in time if I choose to wait it out.  I'm just not sure if I want that or not...waiting for someone to realize they need help is incredible hard.
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« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2023, 11:12:37 PM »

*Update*

I’m thinking she’s back with her ex fiancé again. He apparently made her show him her phone because he was angry she didn’t tell him that his cousin was trying to have sex with her.(probable lie) She called me and told me the whole situation. The next day she sends me a text and calls me too saying she has to block my number temporarily until his suspicions die down because he’s searching her phone constantly. She seemed sincere but who knows really.
  

 I know I should just cut ties with this girl and go NC. I’m finding it incredibly difficult to do so, after all, I did fall (unfortunately) for this girl..

All this being said, like one of the other posters already stated above, I have the nagging suspicion I’m on the back burner for her when her and her ex fiancé start inevitably fighting again.. Aka The other guy she can “recycle” if she wants.
 
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« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2023, 10:48:50 AM »

I previous said...
Excerpt
Love bombing ==> devalue ==> discard ==> rinse and repeat

The rinse and repeat holds true unless they find somebody else.

So you are that somebody else with her ex fiance of 5 years.  So, if the ex is available when she does the rinse and repeat with him, you will be discarded.  If the ex is NOT available, then you may become the attention of the 'rinse and repeat', or she can find some new 'toy' to play with.  That is the nature of the 2nd symptom of borderlines - unstable relationships.

I’m thinking she’s back with her ex fiancé again. He apparently made her show him her phone because he was angry she didn’t tell him that his cousin was trying to have sex with her. She called me and told me the whole situation. The next day she sends me a text and calls me too saying she has to block my number temporarily until his suspicions die down because he’s searching her phone constantly. She seemed sincere but who knows really.
  I’m leaning more towards believing her because we were back on good terms again (splitted white) the last couple of days prior. However, knowing how pwBPD are prone to use lying/delusion to achieve their wants so I’m not sold.

 I know I should just cut ties with this girl and go NC. I’m finding it incredibly difficult to do so, after all, I did fall (unfortunately) for this girl..

Dude,  I predicted this days ago.  Borderlines & Narcissists are so predictable in their cycles. 

Your logical mind tells you to go NC.  Your emotional mind wants you to stay; therefore, you find it very difficult due to the 'trauma bond' induced by this relationship and the emotional push-pull dynamic to leave - look up 'stockholm syndrome' if you want to know the technical reasons why are feeling this way.

It is very intoxicating when they split you 'white'; however, it is hell when they split you 'black'.  You are in a toxic relationship, please use your 'wise mind' to discern what is right for you.

With regards to your observation of being on the backburner, you are likely correct.  Borderlines have a fear of abandonment, so you are her 'supply' to prevent abandonment.  So, if she and her fiance split again, then you be 2nd fiddle, to fill the gap until she can once again reconnect with her fiance.

It is your life, you deserve better than 2nd fiddle for what is left over.  Only you can take care of you, so do take care of yourself.

Practice self-care, and take care.
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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2023, 12:13:49 AM »

I previous said...
Dude,  I predicted this days ago.  Borderlines & Narcissists are so predictable in their cycles.  

Your logical mind tells you to go NC.  Your emotional mind wants you to stay; therefore, you find it very difficult due to the 'trauma bond' induced by this relationship and the emotional push-pull dynamic to leave - look up 'stockholm syndrome' if you want to know the technical reasons why are feeling this way.

It is very intoxicating when they split you 'white'; however, it is hell when they split you 'black'.  You are in a toxic relationship, please use your 'wise mind' to discern what is right for you.

With regards to your observation of being on the backburner, you are likely correct.  Borderlines have a fear of abandonment, so you are her 'supply' to prevent abandonment.  So, if she and her fiance split again, then you be 2nd fiddle, to fill the gap until she can once again reconnect with her fiance.

It is your life, you deserve better than 2nd fiddle for what is left over.  Only you can take care of you, so do take care of yourself.

Practice self-care, and take care.

I previous said...
Dude,  I predicted this days ago.  Borderlines & Narcissists are so predictable in their cycles.  

Your logical mind tells you to go NC.  Your emotional mind wants you to stay; therefore, you find it very difficult due to the 'trauma bond' induced by this relationship and the emotional push-pull dynamic to leave - look up 'stockholm syndrome' if you want to know the technical reasons why are feeling this way.

It is very intoxicating when they split you 'white'; however, it is hell when they split you 'black'.  You are in a toxic relationship, please use your 'wise mind' to discern what is right for you.

With regards to your observation of being on the backburner, you are likely correct.  Borderlines have a fear of abandonment, so you are her 'supply' to prevent abandonment.  So, if she and her fiance split again, then you be 2nd fiddle, to fill the gap until she can once again reconnect with her fiance.

It is your life, you deserve better than 2nd fiddle for what is left over.  Only you can take care of you, so do take care of yourself.

Practice self-care, and take care.

Yeah you did predict it man. I actually kinda knew deep down even back when we were still together she still had feelings for him in some way. She would talk about him all the time and always compare things she didn’t like that I would say to stuff she said he would say. Granted, all the things she would say about him were negative. Still, I knew you don’t just talk about your ex as much as she did if you’re over him like she said she was. In hindsight it was foolish of me to continue the relationship. When I called her out on talking about him too much she apologized profusely and told me “it’s difficult when you spend 5 years with someone it’s hard to not to bring them up”. Bs

I appreciate the advice though bro, I know my value and I don’t deserve to be hers or anyone’s fall back plan. I think you’re right about the trauma bond thing you said though. Apart of me still wants to forgive her if she ever does decide to give “us” another chance. Idk man, this whole situation just really f’d with me. Like how do you love me head over heels one mouth and hate me for seemingly no specific reason the next. Craziness for real…

 
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« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2023, 11:14:55 PM »

Yeah you did predict it man. I actually kinda knew deep down even back when we were still together she still had feelings for him in some way. She would talk about him all the time and always compare things she didn’t like that I would say to stuff she said he would say. Granted, all the things she would say about him were negative. Still, I knew you don’t just talk about your ex as much as she did if you’re over him like she said she was. In hindsight it was foolish of me to continue the relationship. When I called her out on talking about him too much she apologized profusely and told me “it’s difficult when you spend 5 years with someone it’s hard to not to bring them up”. Bs

I appreciate the advice though bro, I know my value and I don’t deserve to be hers or anyone’s fall back plan. I think you’re right about the trauma bond thing you said though. Apart of me still wants to forgive her if she ever does decide to give “us” another chance. Idk man, this whole situation just really f’d with me. Like how do you love me head over heels one mouth and hate me for seemingly no specific reason the next. Craziness for real…

Re-reading what I posted, I may have been a bit on the harsh side, and should have softened the blow a bit.  I just wanted to 'keep it real' and be 'straight up' so you could see the situation for what it was.

If you aren't already in therapy, I would suggest doing some therapy to deal with what has just happened to you.  We always really want to think the best of our partners; however, when they do something like that, it really messes with your mind with all of the crazy making behaviors -- hence the reason why I am suggesting an individual T.

In addition to the T, this is my number one recommendation - do self-care, whatever it looks like for you, exercise outside [run/jog/bike ride/walk/hike/etc.], nice long hot shower, get lost in a movie/book/tv series, hangout with friends, or whatever like doing and can get emotionally lost in it.

Take care, and good luck.
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Pook075
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« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2023, 02:47:44 PM »

*Update*

I’m thinking she’s back with her ex fiancé again. He apparently made her show him her phone because he was angry she didn’t tell him that his cousin was trying to have sex with her. She called me and told me the whole situation. The next day she sends me a text and calls me too saying she has to block my number temporarily until his suspicions die down because he’s searching her phone constantly. She seemed sincere but who knows really.
  I’m leaning more towards believing her because we were back on good terms again (splitted white) the last couple of days prior. However, knowing how pwBPD are prone to use lying/delusion to achieve their wants so I’m not sold.

 I know I should just cut ties with this girl and go NC. I’m finding it incredibly difficult to do so, after all, I did fall (unfortunately) for this girl..

All this being said, like one of the other posters already stated above, I have the nagging suspicion I’m on the back burner for her when her and her ex fiancé start inevitably fighting again.. Aka The other guy she can “recycle” if she wants.
 

So sorry man, that may feel like the worst possible news but at the same time, it may provide a little clarity as well.  Why is she around him enough to where he feels like he has the right to search her phone?  That's not just a casual relationship, there's something still there.  Please be very careful and temper your expectations.

Also, remember that many here talk about the BPD loop they go through.  That feels like what's happening here, and you're inside your own loop as well.  Only you can choose to break that pattern, she doesn't get to choose that for you.  I wish you luck and I'm here for you. 

Sorry I couldn't reply earlier, was out of town for business the past 4 days.
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« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2023, 06:02:22 PM »

I appreciate your concern pook! I’m hoping clarity comes soon because this situation is effecting my mental pretty bad..Okay, there’s a big thing I didn’t mention for some dumb reason. I guess I was embarrassed on this situation seeming even more hopeless for me. In hindsight I don’t know why as I know you guys only want to help..

She has two young kids (2 year old and 3 year old) with this guy, her ex fiancé. That’s why they are in closer contact than they would be otherwise. They split time and have days were they both are together with the kids. I underestimated how much her children, and by proxy her ex would affect this relationship. I know, naive and short sighted on my part. The fact she had kids never bothered me, only that he would always be in picture as a result. That’s definitely something I should’ve taken into MUCH stronger consideration way back when I first found out. I could’ve saved myself a lot of pain and heartbreak. Spilled milk now..
 
I should break the loop and just be okay with her staying with her ex fiancé and their kids. Not only does she have untreated bdp and a fiancé she apparently bounces back and forward from. She also has two young children with the guy. There’s tons of reasons I should just move on and pursue a healthier relationship. The problem is I’m very much in love with this girl unfortunately. The time we spend together made me happier then I’ve been in a long long time. It’s hard to let that go.
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« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2023, 06:30:43 PM »

When I get home and sent her a text saying “I miss you” she flipped out on me. You would think she just caught me cheating on her with how she acted. She said I played with and disregarded her feelings and this missed date wasn’t the only thing I did to wrong her (it was the only thing, I literally have no idea what else I did wrong).

From that day onwards it’s been a gradual decline in our relationship. I went from super man to just some guy she thought was attractive. Slowly the text messages started getting colder and less romantic. The harder I would try the more she would push me away. There was glimpses of what we use to have but very few and far in between. She then progressively started friend zoning me and telling me I screwed everything up in this relationship so she can’t be blamed. Her anger would turn to absolute rage at me for things that shouldn’t have warranted a response like the one she gave. I was a pos, bastard, gave off douche bag vibes, immature, etc when she got angry with me. Im not entirely sure why I took this verbal abuse like I did. I guess I just was confused wanting that sweet and caring girl back again.

From then on  things got worse and worse until she finally decided we can’t be friends anymore because I’m too clingy/annoying. Me and her still text occasionally but it’s nothing serious like it use to be. In fact, I’m pretty sure she’s in the process of getting back with her abusive ex fiancé. Go figure. Honestly, this whole situation has left me utterly drained and depressed. This women went from “I love you so much, you’re perfect in my eyes“ to “I cant stand you we’ll never work out so stop trying asshole” in less than a year. When I would try and bring it up on why exactly she broke it off she would just curse me out. I’ve never been more dumbfounded.



ALL of this sounds very familiar to me, even one of the scenarios you describe here are nearly identical to my experience with my ex. I won't go into details here, but I was struck by the similarities.

Regarding the ex being abusive, same here in my relationship. The ex was "an abuser", "a narcissist" who "got his supply from their son", violent and dangerous.

She love this story, loved to constantly point out to me what a jerk he was, talked about him constantly. It was the main subject of our calls or topics on our walks or coffee dates. She even forwarded many, many of his emails and texts to her...to me. Had me read them and tell her/agree with her that he was an abusive a**hole.

Now, here's the thing. I never once detected abusiveness in his communications to her, and he had no way of knowing that others (me) would see them. Of course, he may have been careful since she could have used threats and lies against him in court (even though they had divorced years earlier and had a parenting plan). But I never ONCE saw anything in his communications to her that was even mildly abusive, or even hinting at being an abusive person.

I detected frustration with her- which I understand since she is very evasive and secretive- and I sensed confusion on his part about her behaviors and the way she tried to manipulate him through their son, which oh did she ever do.

So I don't really believe her that he was abusive. I think she made it up. She, on the other hand, is a textbook abuser/bully- name calling, explosive anger, lies by evasion and omission, straight out lies about what we did/said/agreed to, etc, putdowns, mocking, mimicking my voice when I was being yelled at by her, and accusations of things I simply did not do.

For example, she told me that I yelled at her in the car. This is something I never would do, and never did. It shocked me that she would say that, because then what else would she say I did? And who but me was in the best position to know if that was true? It absolutely wasn't, and it scared me that she would tell me I did that.

So, take her story of the abusive ex with a grain of salt.
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« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2023, 07:04:23 PM »

ALL of this sounds very familiar to me, even one of the scenarios you describe here are nearly identical to my experience with my ex. I won't go into details here, but I was struck by the similarities.

Regarding the ex being abusive, same here in my relationship. The ex was "an abuser", "a narcissist" who "got his supply from their son", violent and dangerous.

She love this story, loved to constantly point out to me what a jerk he was, talked about him constantly. It was the main subject of our calls or topics on our walks or coffee dates. She even forwarded many, many of his emails and texts to her...to me. Had me read them and tell her/agree with her that he was an abusive a**hole.

Now, here's the thing. I never once detected abusiveness in his communications to her, and he had no way of knowing that others (me) would see them. Of course, he may have been careful since she could have used threats and lies against him in court (even though they had divorced years earlier and had a parenting plan). But I never ONCE saw anything in his communications to her that was even mildly abusive, or even hinting at being an abusive person.

I detected frustration with her- which I understand since she is very evasive and secretive- and I sensed confusion on his part about her behaviors and the way she tried to manipulate him through their son, which oh did she ever do.

So I don't really believe her that he was abusive. I think she made it up. She, on the other hand, is a textbook abuser/bully- name calling, explosive anger, lies by evasion and omission, straight out lies about what we did/said/agreed to, etc, putdowns, mocking, mimicking my voice when I was being yelled at by her, and accusations of things I simply did not do.

For example, she told me that I yelled at her in the car. This is something I never would do, and never did. It shocked me that she would say that, because then what else would she say I did? And who but me was in the best position to know if that was true? It absolutely wasn't, and it scared me that she would tell me I did that.

So, take her story of the abusive ex with a grain of salt.

I’m very curious which of our stories were nearly identical haha. It’s strangely comforting when I see others have similar experiences to mine with their bpd partners. It reminds me I’m not alone in dealing with this nightmare.
That’s the thing I really love about these forums. It reminds me I’m not the bad person she painted me as for no reason. I’m not overly clingy or “constantly up her ass” as she put it. Or made to feel unworthy of her despite always being real with her and treating her right.

In one week she went from everything bad under the sun was my fault to “you shouldn’t settle for less, I’m less, we learned a lot from each other but you can do better than me”. So stressful how fast they’re opinions on things can change or get distorted.

As to the abuse claim, yeah I’ve come to believe she was fabricating most of the stuff she said about him. If he did hit her, I wouldn’t be shocked if she was the one who got violent first. (She admitted to me that she punched him before). Not that that justifies hitting her however. I just have a feeling she hasn’t been honest with me about a fair bit of things. It hurts man, and I really thought this girl was the one before all this mess started happening.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2023, 10:36:08 PM by Gutt3rSnipe » Logged
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