Help with wife

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Thank you Cat and Chief for your responses.

I think part of why it is so hard for me to just up and leave and leave for good is because of what you are saying Chief. The truth is no matter how horribly she treats me or what happens I still love her and I just want her to be happy. I just feel like right now I'm at the "all-in" point where I either have to decide to sacrifice my life (figuratively) and just give her what she wants or leave and risk that she will literally take her life. Earlier today she kept talking to me about how she is willing to compromise, and she'll have sex with a condom to prove it. I didn't want to do it but I felt I had no choice. I know from our past experience that if she feels she is "compromising" and I say I don't want to have sex right now it will go straight to you are rejecting me, everyone rejects me and I have nothing to live for. I then found a small hole in the condom wrapper and I hate saying this but I have no earthly idea if I am just seeing things because I'm scared and paranoid or if she is really willing to go that far. All I know is even with protected sex I ended up pretending to get there so it would be over and then just sat in the shower for a while before going to work.

Cat I'm really sorry to hear about everything that happened with your ex-husband and even with your neighbor I can only imagine how traumatizing that was. Thank you for sharing with me. When you were putting everything in motion with the divorce were you still living with your husband? How long did the divorce process take and when you told him it was happening how did you do it/how did he react?

Thank you both
Falcon

[Falcon2437]

Thank you Cat and Chief for your responses.

I think part of why it is so hard for me to just up and leave and leave for good is because of what you are saying Chief. The truth is no matter how horribly she treats me or what happens I still love her and I just want her to be happy. I just feel like right now I'm at the "all-in" point where I either have to decide to sacrifice my life (figuratively) and just give her what she wants or leave and risk that she will literally take her life. Earlier today she kept talking to me about how she is willing to compromise, and she'll have sex with a condom to prove it. I didn't want to do it but I felt I had no choice. I know from our past experience that if she feels she is "compromising" and I say I don't want to have sex right now it will go straight to you are rejecting me, everyone rejects me and I have nothing to live for. I then found a small hole in the condom wrapper and I hate saying this but I have no earthly idea if I am just seeing things because I'm scared and paranoid or if she is really willing to go that far. All I know is even with protected sex I ended up pretending to get there so it would be over and then just sat in the shower for a while before going to work.

Cat I'm really sorry to hear about everything that happened with your ex-husband and even with your neighbor I can only imagine how traumatizing that was. Thank you for sharing with me. When you were putting everything in motion with the divorce were you still living with your husband? How long did the divorce process take and when you told him it was happening how did you do it/how did he react?

Thank you both
Falcon

[uncleflo]

It’s just really hard when you have more than 30 years invested in a marriage and you really love the person with BPD.  I doubt I’d every really do it.

I hear you, Chief. The more time invested (and with kids involved), the harder it is to imagine actually indulging in that fantasy. I commend you for your love and dedication, my friend.

Lately, to be honest, I've been fantasizing about my pwBPD being the one to pull the plug and wondering what that would be like. The hiccup is the same though, as I love her to pieces, and either way you slice it, it would hurt.

[uncleflo]

I just feel like right now I'm at the "all-in" point where I either have to decide to sacrifice my life (figuratively) and just give her what she wants or leave and risk that she will literally take her life.

I feel for you, Falcon. My heart goes out to you and your wife, my friend. Sending you nothing but positivity, as well as to all those who are fighting similar battles here. We're in this together!

[Couscous]

Of course it’s your right to do whatever you want, but the bitter truth is that a baby will not heal her and your staying will not heal her. You just do not have that power.

And while it may be your right to sacrifice yourself for her, it’s most certainly not your right to sacrifice your future children. 

Here’s something from Jordan Peterson about self-sacrifice that I thought was brilliant: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aGEv4JwHZJc

[Cat Familiar]

. I just feel like right now I'm at the "all-in" point where I either have to decide to sacrifice my life (figuratively) and just give her what she wants or leave and risk that she will literally take her life.

I recollect feeling like that until one day I told myself that I was just waiting to die. At that moment, I realized that I didn’t want to spend the rest of my life *enduring* this marriage.

Earlier today she kept talking to me about how she is willing to compromise, and she'll have sex with a condom to prove it. I didn't want to do it but I felt I had no choice. I know from our past experience that if she feels she is "compromising" and I say I don't want to have sex right now it will go straight to you are rejecting me, everyone rejects me and I have nothing to live for. I then found a small hole in the condom wrapper and I hate saying this but I have no earthly idea if I am just seeing things because I'm scared and paranoid or if she is really willing to go that far. All I know is even with protected sex I ended up pretending to get there so it would be over and then just sat in the shower for a while before going to work.

We’ve heard similar stories on this board. I don’t think you’re being paranoid. Keep the condoms away from her.

When you were putting everything in motion with the divorce were you still living with your husband?

We were still living on the same property together but not cohabiting. He spent most of his time at the welfare mom’s place and then they would spend weekends away from her kids here. (We had multiple buildings at that time, but shared a kitchen.)

How long did the divorce process take and when you told him it was happening how did you do it/how did he react?

I dropped the ball with the divorce process because I was running my small business in addition to having another job, when my mother’s dementia became so apparent that I had to fly down to see her every couple of weeks and pack up her things, get her house ready to be sold, and buy her a house nearby. The divorce got put on the back burner. I had hoped we could do a collaborative divorce and had spoken with an attorney about property settlement agreements etc., as the land we owned was purchased through an inheritance I had received.

During the delay, my ex hired the most pit bull of divorce litigators in town, and had come up with a cockamamie quasi-legal theory about how he had an *interest* in my inheritance due to our marriage, despite the state law indicating otherwise.

When I told him I was done with the marriage, he didn’t believe it, and thought I’d forgive him for the umpteenth time. He tried to persuade me by being the husband he should have been always, but it was merely an act and a manipulation and I was no longer fooled.

It became apparent that I was not going to budge, then he immediately went into the *find a new woman* mode and even asked my opinion about certain prospects.

When he actually did find someone, I became public enemy #1 and he trashtalked me to her (I was told that by a third party who knew both her and me) and she soon hated me too. Ironically I was really happy at this point as he was mostly out of my hair and I tried to be friendly with both of them. When that didn’t work, I remained civil despite him breaking into my personal space and taking things that belonged to me.

The divorce got ugly and protracted with me trying to disprove ownership of things he claimed were his, and making me do deep dives into paper trails. Ultimately I basically paid him off to go away, and that was a bitter pill to swallow. In retrospect, it was a great deal as real estate prices have gone through the roof in recent years and I got away cleanly, with ownership of things that belonged to me.

My only regret was that I hadn’t ended the relationship years before.

[Couscous]

I thought this quote from the article below totally nailed it:

It’s Not Your Fault
You’re not a savior or a killer. It’s time to let go of this false narrative. You are not responsible for controlling the actions your partner takes.

We get to choose our narratives, and the narrative that you “saved” your abusive partner by acquiescing is as dangerous as the narrative that you “killed” your abusive partner by finally leaving. Before you buy into a narrative, ask yourself, “Is this helpful?”

The National Domestic Violence Hotline says that when a partner threatens suicide in order to control you, it’s best to maintain your boundaries and realize that their actions are not your fault: “Put the choice to live or die where it belongs — on your partner.”

https://betterhumans.pub/how-to-deal-with-coercive-suicide-threats-71a72e5cdab1

[Cat Familiar]

Awesome Jordan Peterson video, Couscous!

[Falcon2437]

This is going to be a lot, no worries if people don't read it I am just trying to leave for a third time and I need to write this stuff down and try to stay strong. I tried again yesterday and she somehow knew, called me to ask if I was leaving and when I said I was thinking about things all of the suicidal threats started and I spent the rest of the day trying to find her and calm her down. I know I can't keep chasing her like that. She has literally forced me into sex more times than I can count via threats including two days ago and I cannot live like this. I have started fantasizing about hurting myself (never killing myself and I wouldn't actually do it, but just the fact that I'm thinking about breaking an arm or something to sleep in a hospital bed is really scaring me) and I need to leave. These are some notes I wrote down over the last month or so.


Over the last four and a half years I have been lied to compulsively, threatened and abused nearly the entire time. I have been verbally, emotionally, physically and sexually abused in my relationship and in my marriage and I cannot take it anymore. As I sit here thinking about everything, any one of those sets of abuse should have been enough for me to run. Any one of the gigantic, elaborate lies to change my life should have been a red flag that scared me enough, but I either didn’t see it or didn’t want to see it because a happy marriage with the picket fence and wife and kids has been what I have wanted for so damn long. Well I see it now and this note is in a lot of ways to remind myself of what I have seen and been through when times get tough. And let me preface everything by saying what she has been through over the last two years with her dad, her health and the miscarriage is nothing short of hell, not to mention the type of abuse in childhood/teen years that she has told me about. But that doesn’t give her the right to treat me like this.


Sexual abuse

This is the most simple thing I will write here and it is also the hardest. No means no. It does not mean threaten, berate and scare until it becomes a yes. It does not mean keep talking for 20 straight hours until it becomes a yes. I have been extremely clear that I am not comfortable with having unprotected sex. She then threatens suicide until I cave and I say I will do whatever it takes to keep her alive. If I then don’t want to have unprotected sex I’m told I am a liar. So I have done it. Multiple times. I have done it and told her later that I felt taken advantage of and that I am not comfortable with it. Then the cycle repeats itself and she makes me do it again. I’ve struggled at times with how I can feel abused or raped when I’m a guy, I should be able to control what I want in that way and stop it if I’m not interested. The reality is I have been essentially held at gunpoint. But not with a gun to my head, with one held to hers, the woman that I loved and frankly still love. I have done everything I can to pretend to cum because I know us having a kid right now is not the answer. My wife is abusive and scary at worst, fake at best. She is a wonderful dog mom when everything is okay. But she also screams at me so much that our dog at times hides behind me or in corners and shakes. My kids will never see that. But I digress. Sex is not a bargaining chip. It is not an “I’ll go to therapy but only if you try to have a baby with me” it is not a “we have to do things we are uncomfortable with in a marriage.” No. If I say no that means no. And frankly if she says no to protected sex then that means no too which I have always respected. I don’t want to be having any kind of sex with her right now and I certainly don’t want to without protection. I have told her I don’t want to and she has told me “I need this” and threatened suicide without it. That is literally sexual abuse and I will not stand for it. Even if I do decide that we can try our relationship again that is a non-negotiable. When I say no it means no. Whether she thinks it is an overreaction or not I need to stop being scared of saying the word rape and be honest about how I feel. I feel like I have been raped. I have cried to myself in the shower after sex multiple times. I was forced into sex several times when I did not want to have it in a way I was not comfortable having it. That is rape. That is not okay. I don’t deserve that. No one deserves that.


Verbal abuse

I understand that different people fight or talk differently. I understand that in her house growing up there was a ton of yelling and name calling. I am so sorry she had to endure that and it is not my place to judge her for doing what she saw as a kid or doing what she feels she needs to in order to “be heard.” She has every right to yell or talk how she wants to. But I have every right to not be okay with it. I have every right to not stand for it or stay with it. I am at the very least scolded and at the worst screamed at nearly every day. I’m done with that. I deserve better than that. Over the last 4.5 years I have been called “asshole, piece of PLEASE READ, retard, PLEASE READ-up, idiot, stupid, dumb, brain dead, the biggest disappointment of my life, maliciously selfish” and many others. I have been threatened that I will be stabbed if I don’t let her get to the knives to kill herself and told to “rot in hell, PLEASE READ off, go PLEASE READ myself” and much more. I have been screamed at privately, I have been screamed at publicly in the streets, I have been screamed at in front of her family. That is not okay. I will not take that. I will not endure that. I will not live like that. She has also told me my mom is a “deplorable c*nt,” my sister is a bitch and many other horrible things about my family.


Physical abuse

Thankfully there has not been nearly as much physical abuse as verbal. I feel the verbal happens just about every day, physical only happens on bad days and it is rarely physical with me in the classic domestic violence from the movies sense. There are three times she has been directly physical with me. 1. She grabbed my arm breaking the skin to “demonstrate” how the police officer hurt her and grabbed her. I have no idea if the police officer really did that but if he did how in the world is it okay to “demonstrate” something that she calls traumatizing. She could have easily just told me he grabbed my arm and broke the skin. 2. She slapped my hand when I tried to put my arm on her shoulder to console her. This wasn’t super hard by any stretch and had no mark unlike the first instance but I will never forget how I felt. How scared I was. That is not okay even if it wasn’t all that hard of a slap. 3. She threw the rings at me. She missed and hit the wall but of all the times she’s thrown PLEASE READ that is the only time it was directly at me. That brings me to what most of the physical abuse has been which is not direct stuff but things intended to intimidate, scare or coerce me into doing what she needs so she’ll stop. Over the last year she has thrown and broken a drinking glass, a container of oats, broken a mirror on our bedroom door from slamming it too hard and broken her phone throwing it at the ground. I have watched her punch herself in the face at full force like the PLEASE READing movie fight club before I could stop her. She has punched the walls of our house, she has open hand hit my car several times. She has punched herself in the vagina. All of this she has done while telling me that this is how I make her feel. Telling me how I put her in so much pain that she needs a physical manifestation of it. I’m sorry I never want her to feel in pain and she knows that I will feel guilty when she says that but sitting here thinking about it that is NOT MY FAULT. She is the one making the choice to hit herself, not me.  
 

Suicidal threats

For six months I have been living under threat of death. Not my own, but hers. As I said when talking about sexual abuse I feel I have been living with a gun to her head. She has told me she will take pills, she has told me she’ll jump out the window, bash her head in, stab herself, drive into a tree, walk into traffic if I don’t “take the pain away” “help her heal” or flat out give her a baby. She has told me she’s watched a video on how to knock herself unconscious to get rid of the pain and then did it. That was the day I broke the bathroom door down and called the paramedics. And all of it happened because I went to see my family on Hanukkah. The truth is, she’s in unimaginable pain. She does feel cut out by my family and she doesn’t see her role in it. That is real. Her feelings and her pain are real to her. I will never tell her they aren’t. But I can’t live at gunpoint. After the Hanukkah incident I didn’t see my family for nearly two months because she told me not to and I was scared about how things would escalate if I did. Even now as I prepare to leave for a while I’m going to a friends’ place not my parents because I’m terrified of what she will do if she thinks I’m going to them.

The police have been to my house more than ten times now because it escalates to a point where I don’t know what to do. I don’t know how to keep her safe. At this point I don’t know if me staying is even helping or if it is just enabling her. All I know is I can’t live like this. I can’t wake up and go to bed scared every day.

Other threats

Writing down the non-suicidal threats she has given me is going to be very hard to do just like the verbal abuse because frankly there are so many I will never get them all. I guess I’ll start with divorce/calling off engagement/ending relationship because those are the ones I have endured the most and the longest. Once I was hooked in the relationship, about a year in, that’s when the threats to leave began. They were almost always tied to something such as these examples that all happened: “make more money,” “make better friends,” “give your sister a restraining order for me,” “follow through on things,” “go to therapy” or else she will leave. Some weeks it happens every day, some not at all but on average over the last three years I’d guess it happens at least once a week, likely twice. She threatened an annulment on our honeymoon. She has threatened to book a flight home early and then a split during every vacation we have taken since the marriage (honeymoon, San Diego, New York/Jersey and Boston). She has packed a bag several times, she has told me I had to pack several times. She has told me she is never coming home several times. She has told me if I don’t leave she will call the police. That brings me to the non-suicidal threat that scares me the most.

She has told me that she will lie to the police about me hitting her. That she will hit herself so there are marks and then tell the police I did it. That could result in me literally going to jail for beating my wife who I have never touched. Not once. She has told me she’ll call the police and tell them I’m hurting her emotionally in her own home if I don’t leave. This is a home that we bought together and I had already told her I would leave. She threatened to call the police as I was trying to walk out the door.

She has also threatened to sue my family. This ranges from restraining orders/orders of protection against my mom and sister to suing them for “emotional trauma and harassment.” How they can harass her when they are literally ignoring her because of how much they feel she’s abused them I will never understand but I guess if she files a lawsuit that is for the courts to figure out.

She has also threatened my job. She has previously told me about sending in complaints about other reporters to try and get them fired and one time after saying she was going to the police station to “file a report” (I still have no idea what she wanted to file because she never explained what I did) she made a not so veiled threat of enjoy this day of work because I’m talking to your boss tomorrow.


Lies

I will never be able to sum up all the lies she has told me. Hell chances are I only know 20% of them anyway but the two biggest I don’t think I’ll ever fully be able to get over. She told me how because of our relationship and because I never follow through and give her what she needs she was in therapy with a woman named Debbie. The therapist told her how the way I was acting was not okay and how I am the reason she needs to be on antidepressants and that I should be in therapy myself. She then gave me an ultimatum/threat that if I don’t go to therapy she will leave me. So of course I went and have been going to Kurt ever since. All of that was a lie. Debbie didn’t exist. The antidepressants didn’t exist. None of it did.

She also blew up the two most important relationships in my life with C and K through lies. Starting with C she told me how she heard through two different people how C talked PLEASE READ about her and said all these nasty things about her in press boxes. How she bullied her and made fun of her. That made me a little hesitant around C and as soon as she knew I was backing off she went on the offensive telling me “how could you be friends with someone who treats your girlfriend/fiance/partner like that, you should never be talking to her, etc” So I eventually cut her out of my life. She was my literal best friend here and I never even gave her the benefit of the doubt of having a conversation with her to find out what was real because the thought that my girlfriend (at the time) was lying never crossed my mind. She later told me she made those lies up because she knew C was “into” me and thought I was too. At the time C was dating her now husband and father of her child and I was completely in love with my girlfriend (now wife). C and I have never done anything remotely like that, she was essentially my sister. But even if there was some romantic tension there (and there truly wasn’t) then have a conversation with me. Don’t make up a massive lie about her to end it for me.

She made up similar lies about K telling me later she did it because she felt that he was holding me back in my career and making me do a worse job because I stooped to his level of non-work. Again if that is a problem or something you want to say to me then say that to me. I might agree, I might not. But making up lies to blow up a decade-long friendship is not okay.


How I feel currently

Fear. I feel complete and utter fear all the time. I can’t count the number of days I have stayed in my car a block away from the house at night for 10, 20, 30 minutes because I am scared to go inside. How many times I have stayed at work with absolutely nothing to do because I don’t want to go home. That is not the way I should be living. That is not the way I will be living. I feel hope that things can get better but I can not do this the way it is. Something needs to change.

I don’t truly think that she will kill herself but I am terrified that I could be wrong. I don’t truly think that she will sue me or my family but I am worried that I could be wrong. I do feel this is the best thing to do for both of us but I feel guilty knowing that she has told me so many times it is my fault she is in so much pain and that she is suicidal. Logically I know it isn’t my fault but that logic doesn’t stop me from feeling guilty.

I am also scared that I am making a mistake. If I’m being honest I do believe that the person she was for the first year was a complete and utter fabrication to hook me. But I am scared that the kind, thoughtful

[Cat Familiar]

If you don’t object, I’d like to move this thread to the Conflicted Board. Here on the Bettering Board, we discuss strategies to improve relationships. I think your list of abuses prompts a fuller discussion of these issues than is appropriate here.

Reading what you so precisely described, I’d like to ask you to do three things:
1. Read what you wrote from the perspective that your best friend wrote it.
2. Write a detailed narrative about how you would respond if he asked for your opinion.
3. Get a consultation with an attorney and show them your list of abuses.

[Falcon2437]

I don't mind moving it there at all. To be honest I really have a hard time navigating this website, is there anything I should do or can you just move it there?

I will do 1 and 2 tonight, thank you. I have already talked to an attorney about some of this stuff, his advice was for me to leave, file and never look back.

[Cat Familiar]

It’s like you are living a news story. This seems very dangerous on several fronts.

[kells76]

Hi Falcon2437, thanks for sharing your update with us. It's good that you were able to organize your thoughts and memories so systematically. That sounds to me like there is a strong, capable part of you that can handle taking steps to keep you safe.

Cat Familiar and I are seeing it similarly. You're in a dangerous situation. And again, it sounds like part of you knows that.

Just a couple of questions from me right now:

Could you agree that your safety is the #1 priority? After all, if you aren't safe, you can't help anyone else.
Tell me a little bit about tonight -- what are some things you think you could do to stay safe?
What's on deck for tomorrow -- are you headed back to work?

Keep us in the loop. Again, really glad you stopped back to let us know what's going on.

kells76

[Outdorenthusiast]

I thought this quote from the article below totally nailed it:

It’s Not Your Fault
You’re not a savior or a killer. It’s time to let go of this false narrative. You are not responsible for controlling the actions your partner takes.

We get to choose our narratives, and the narrative that you “saved” your abusive partner by acquiescing is as dangerous as the narrative that you “killed” your abusive partner by finally leaving. Before you buy into a narrative, ask yourself, “Is this helpful?”

The National Domestic Violence Hotline says that when a partner threatens suicide in order to control you, it’s best to maintain your boundaries and realize that their actions are not your fault: “Put the choice to live or die where it belongs — on your partner.”

https://betterhumans.pub/how-to-deal-with-coercive-suicide-threats-71a72e5cdab1

Excellent!  This should be regularly recycled and reposted time to time.  A painful reality that is hard to let sink in and separate from emotionally, and one I finally had to come to peace with after many years of struggling and self blame of “if I only.”

Saving someone from a burning building (normal human response) vs trying to save someone intentionally running into a burning building (un healthy). How someone chooses to live their life is not under our control.  It is their life - not ours, and not our fault. 

Suicide threats are extremely common emotional manipulation tactic used on caretakers by people with BPD because it works on us - until we stop allowing it to work.

There should be a separate workshop thread created on effective boundaries examples non’s could reference as I am sure I am not the only one that this was hard to navigate on what to say/do.

[Falcon2437]

Hi Kells,

I have had a really hard time putting my safety first because to me it feels like with the suicidal threats her safety is much more immediate. It has taken me a long time to process just how much my safety and mental state are at risk because when you compare to the threat of suicide it always felt like my problems were so minor. I now realize that they aren't minor at all and just because she throws up the most dangerous type of threat possible doesn't mean that my safety concerns and my pain aren't real. So now I do realize my safety needs to be an important priority too but idk if I can see it as #1.

I definitely do know that I am in a dangerous situation. It took a very long time for me to admit to myself that it is rape, but at this point I do know it and I know I need to have an escape plan.

My plan for tonight is to stay at work until it is relatively late so she will be 95% asleep. She won't be able to get pissed at me for not coming home because I'll be there before she's asleep but she also won't try to pressure me into anything that late. Then tomorrow I will go straight from work to a new couples therapist where I will meet her. We will be taking separate cars and in that session I am going to tell her with a witness and with some security that I am leaving for a while. I need that time. I need that space. I need that distance. And then I need to stick to my plan. I know she will bombard me with calls, texts and anything else ranging from begging me to come back to talking about how she is actively killing herself. My plan is if she threatens her life I will call the police but not go myself. I have gone more times than I can count and it always ends with things getting worse. So I will keep my boundary and rely on the professionals to help. If she can not respect that I need time and I need space and escalates then the police will have to be enough. I can not keep going back. After those couple of days/weeks I will re-evaluate next steps but unless something DRASTICALLY changes I know in my heart and in my head I will need to file for divorce because at this point I have two options 1. Leave 2. Stay forever and know that my life is essentially over I only live to make her happy and I am NOT ok with point 2.

[ForeverDad]

I’ll echo the others in saying that this volatility is not a healthy home to bring children into...

If you spend much time on this board, you will read countless stories about people regretting having children with mentally ill partners, and horror stories about custody issues. So please, trust your instincts here.

Yes, it is typical for an acting-out disordered spouse to pressure and cajole you into agreeing to have children.  But be forewarned this can start a lifetime of regret.  What better way for a spouse to believe you're locked into a long term relationship if there are children?  If life with your spouse is difficult now, it will almost sure worsen in years to come, and even worse, spill over onto any children.

If you don't yet have children together, then don't.  If you already have a child with her, then don't have any more.  Be the one in charge of birth control, you don't want to hear "Oops I forgot.  Guess what?"

We're not cruel, we're trying to save you from increased agony in the future.  Been there, done that.

The reality is that many here, if the disordered perceptions and behavior are severe enough, have separated and divorced, not regretting that decision.

[Amina]

If what you say is all too true, she is damn lucky to have someone that gives a damn so much.

[Amina]

Also, saying that to her might be ok rarely sometimes, but as we know as community it may or may not register.  Sometimes BPD love can handle my appropriate anger expressions, other times they can't even handle something benign or seemingly fun or calm, but fun calm times do happen.

[Falcon2437]

Thank you guys all for the support. I know what I have to do. I really think that having an impartial third party there tomorrow to serve as a witness and a layer of protection for me will be beneficial and then once we leave the therapist's office I just have to have to have to stick to my boundaries and what I need. The second I crack she will come back in and I'll be right back where I have been for the last year and in some cases the last 4+ years.

[Outdorenthusiast]

Falcon - you got this.  You are important, valuable, and your feelings matter. 

Keep us posted…

[Amina]

My ex-husband had no red flags for 8 months prior to our wedding night when he went into his first irrational rage over seemingly nothing in public.  He had traits of psychopathy and a predator, and was physically abusive unprovoked.  My current on/off again partner exhibited splitting and panic at intimacy from fairly early on, and despite him being more high functioning than my ex-husband, others could see a dark/off/disturbed quality to him pretty quickly, also.  I think when BPD has the presence of more co-occurring empathy disorders, it is more likely for them to be capable of charm and manipulation for a long time or a "long time" before revealing they are disordered.

[Falcon2437]

Amina I'm really sorry you had to experience that and I wish you nothing but the best!

Outdorenthusiast thank you for the kind words they really do mean a lot as I am trying to build up all the strength I have for tonight and the support means a lot.

[kells76]

Hi Falcon2437;

Hi Kells,

I have had a really hard time putting my safety first because to me it feels like with the suicidal threats her safety is much more immediate. It has taken me a long time to process just how much my safety and mental state are at risk because when you compare to the threat of suicide it always felt like my problems were so minor. I now realize that they aren't minor at all and just because she throws up the most dangerous type of threat possible doesn't mean that my safety concerns and my pain aren't real. So now I do realize my safety needs to be an important priority too but idk if I can see it as #1.

I definitely do know that I am in a dangerous situation. It took a very long time for me to admit to myself that it is rape, but at this point I do know it and I know I need to have an escape plan.

My plan for tonight is to stay at work until it is relatively late so she will be 95% asleep. She won't be able to get pissed at me for not coming home because I'll be there before she's asleep but she also won't try to pressure me into anything that late. Then tomorrow I will go straight from work to a new couples therapist where I will meet her. We will be taking separate cars and in that session I am going to tell her with a witness and with some security that I am leaving for a while. I need that time. I need that space. I need that distance. And then I need to stick to my plan. I know she will bombard me with calls, texts and anything else ranging from begging me to come back to talking about how she is actively killing herself. My plan is if she threatens her life I will call the police but not go myself. I have gone more times than I can count and it always ends with things getting worse. So I will keep my boundary and rely on the professionals to help. If she can not respect that I need time and I need space and escalates then the police will have to be enough. I can not keep going back. After those couple of days/weeks I will re-evaluate next steps but unless something DRASTICALLY changes I know in my heart and in my head I will need to file for divorce because at this point I have two options 1. Leave 2. Stay forever and know that my life is essentially over I only live to make her happy and I am NOT ok with point 2.

Good to hear your update again, and then to hear more from you today. It sounds like your plan of staying late at work was something you were able to follow through on -- that's great that you can think ahead of time of what would be a good move, then do it, then see that you made it through. 

You're in a place of being ready to part ways, and it's good that you are being proactive about when, where, and how to make that statement to her. Different cars to/from the appointment, witnesses, and some options for alerting authorities about any threats are smart moves.

Besides the therapist, anyone else (family, friends, coworkers) know about your plan this evening? I'm guessing you have another place to stay lined up?

One step at a time...

kells76

[Falcon2437]

I do have a place to stay. My family, a few friends and key people at work all know about my plan (some know more details than others). I also talked to the police today to make sure I am covered on that front and that if she escalates I can call them without going in person myself. I am trying to write down notes about how exactly I want to phrase everything and how I want to respond. I would love any other proactive ideas anyone here has!

I did read through my notes from the lens of a friend reading it and it just further hammers home what I need to do. There is no world where the things I have been put through are ok. She has been through hell for the last two years and really for the last 20 years and that is important to note, but it does not make what she has done to me ok. If I stay I will be forced into sex that I don't want. If I stay I will be lied to. I will be screamed at. I will be called names. This stuff has not changed for a long time and it is not magically going to change tonight.

[Cat Familiar]

Something you’re probably already aware of is that you’ve been enmeshed in this relationship through a trauma bond.  https://www.forbes.com/health/mind/what-is-trauma-bonding/

That you have empathy for why she has behaved the way she does and have wanted to save her from self harm is indicative that you are a very compassionate person—just the sort of person that can easily be targeted by an abuser.

Those caring feelings won’t go away overnight, even though your rationality argues that your long term safety is preeminent.

There will be a lot to grieve: the dream of what your relationship could have been (had she been an emotionally healthy woman). But with time, your stress level will stabilize and you will emerge stronger, and will be far more alert to signs of dysfunction in new potential partners.

There is life beyond abuse. I say this without hesitation, even though I married another man with BPD. However, this one is kind and at this point his dysfunction is only mildly irritating at times—a vast improvement from my previous spouse!

Best to continue in a therapeutic relationship and discover why you were originally attracted to this woman and learn what are your priorities and expectations of how you wish to be treated in future commitments.

[Couscous]

I also talked to the police today to make sure I am covered on that front and that if she escalates I can call them without going in person myself. I am trying to write down notes about how exactly I want to phrase everything and how I want to respond. I would love any other proactive ideas anyone here has!

So, what I'm wondering is that if she is able to contact you and threatens S, that your resolve may weaken and you may cave in again. What would you think about blocking her on your phone, (and inform her that you are doing so), and tell her that if she feels suicidal to call a crisis hotline/her mother?

[Falcon2437]

So I did it...as best as I could. I said in the therapy session that I needed time and space and I wanted to stay somewhere else. She pretty quickly went into the suicidal talk that she has done for the better part of a year. Once we left therapy I caved more than I wanted to and told her I would meet her at home and we could talk more. At that point she refused to come home and kept talking about how she was going to kill herself. I called the police and met them at our home. They heard her talk about hurting herself etc and eventually when she heard a radio she knew they were there and hung up on me. She called her mom, told her mom that she was going to a hotel to kill herself and that she "had everything she needed."

The police were able to find her along with the mobile crisis response team while she was still talking to her mom. The crisis team took her to a version of a mental emergency room and hopefully she is getting meaningful help there. She went once before but was released pretty quickly and nothing really changed. I was at the house waiting with her panicked like I always am. But this time I am done having my entire life dictated by her threats. I took our dog and left the house. I am not just going to wait around for her to come home furious and cursing/throwing stuff. If she wants to have a monitored and rational conversation with me I can do that. Threats and expletives and abuse I will not do. What I need has not changed and what I need is time and space.

I really hope I am doing the right thing.

[Cat Familiar]

I really hope I am doing the right thing.

You cannot help or change her.

You are doing the right thing for you.

[Notwendy]

I also think you did the right thing for her.

BPD is on a spectrum so relationship decisions need to be individualized but when this includes threats and attempts of S- of this kind, I think the person needs to be in the care of medical professionals.

Clearly you understand that choosing to dedicate yourself to your wife's wishes is not good for you, but I don't think it's good for your wife either because, it's enabling her behavior. She essentially is saying "do everything I want or else" and this has worked for her- she gets what she wants. This reinforces her behavior and also keeps her from learning other ways to behave.

All threats for S need to be taken seriously, as they mean the person needs help. But to give in to their demands out of this fear may seem like the best thing in the moment, but it isn't the help they need as it may also reinforce the behavior, and not address her mental health needs.

Your wife has frequently threatened the unthinkable and this needs professional help You are not her mental health provider. In addition, your giving in to these threats enables the behavior. You have referred her to the help she needs and now it's up to her to decide to follow through with it. Change, if there is to be change, is slow and long term with steady work.

A sudden dramatic change on her part is motivated by the immediate circumstances, and if it is to "get you back" then once you do that, the motivation isn't there. I know you want to see your wife feel better, but it just might be that not enabling her, and doing what you did, has been more effective. The rest is up to her now.

[Cat Familiar]

Notwendy has summed this up perfectly.

[Falcon2437]

Thank you Cat and Notwendy I appreciate it and I know that enabling her as I have done for so long does not help and ultimately this is what I need to do.

Update for now is the crisis team/mental health professionals are keeping her for a few days. I talked to her last night breaking my boundary/rule about how I needed some real, true space and distance because last night I was just so scared and when the call came from the hospital I felt I needed to make sure she was okay. She of course used that time to tell me and her mom how she wants to get through this but she "needs to know we are working towards a family and a future together" to get through it all. I understand she truly might feel that way but to me it is again her putting all of her hopes, dreams, prayers and potential future squarely on me as if she has no options if I leave.

Once I realized she was doing that I was able to take a step back again today and respect my own boundaries even if she won't. She has called me five times so far today and I have not answered. It is so f*cking hard to not answer because I just want to hear her voice, know she is okay and make her feel better, but I know I can't. I know the second I open the window everything will go back to the way it was and I can't do the way it was. I need a separation. And yet even as I want a separation and very possibly a divorce I can't stop feeling like an a$$hole because she and her mom are telling me how much she needs me to be the "hope" to move on with her life. Am I wrong for not answering the phone? Am I wrong for not wanting to be "the hope" ? I go back to something someone posted on this thread earlier that I am not her savior or her killer and if I decide I want space or a divorce or to be "all-in" either way it is not fair for all her hopes to be pinned on me as my responsibility.

Falcon