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Author Topic: Latest bpd meltdown involving small child…  (Read 675 times)
thankful person
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
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Formerly known as broken person…


« on: March 15, 2023, 06:12:10 PM »

Hi I just wanted to share the latest episode involving the children (thankfully they’re not too frequent, the last occasion being when my wife snatched an apple from D3 when I had given it to her against my wife’s wishes, that was a couple of months ago). I’m just after some feedback and advice if anyone has any. I know some of my behaviours are still caretaking/enabling but I’m trying to balance keeping the peace for the children’s well-being, with keeping firm boundaries and respecting myself.

It is nearly UK Mother’s Day and my wife and I need to get our cards in the post if they are to reach our mothers on time. So this morning I reminded her as I was writing mine and I handed her hers as she was sitting at the table with baby. My wife wrote her card, and D3 asked if she could draw in the card and my wife said, “no it’s from me to Nanny.” So I sat down to write my Mum’s card and D3 asked if she could draw in it. I knew that my wife would hate this and had announced this “rule” with her previous answer. I believe it to be because my wife knows that my mother would be delighted to get D3’s picture in the card, and my wife’s mother would not be that bothered and honestly seems to prefer cleaning the house to seeing her grandchildren.

So I immediately smiled at D3 and said, “yes, Granny would love you to do her a picture” and handed her the pen. I am proud of myself to no longer feel so intimidated that I can now make my own small decisions like this. A few years ago I would have “asked her permission” knowing that the answer would be no, and then I would do what she said. Anyway my wife immediately expressed how unfair it was that Granny gets a lovely picture and Nanny doesn’t, and I pointed out that she can still do a picture for Nanny. And my wife’s saying, the cards are supposed to be from us (not the children) and I’m saying, “yes so I can have what I want in my card”. And my wife’s saying, “why is she doing a card for your mum, she could be doing a card for us…” All this happened very quickly and D3 had only drawn a little face when my wife ripped up her own card and said the whole thing is ruined and D3 is like, “oh no!” And then my wife took my card from her and thought about ripping it up but didn’t. So I took the pen from D3 and said, “sorry” to her, “you can do it later”. And I calmly walked away and went and sat in the other room to calm down for a while, working on my breathing.

Eventually my wife kind of got over it and we went shopping and I pointed out that I need to get stamps and my wife took the hint reminder and she picked out a new card for her mum.

I wondered all day whether I was openly going to get D3 to draw in the card or whether I’d do it behind my wife’s back which may save drama but I don’t like the deceit.

In the evening I gently said to my wife, “are you going to write your card as I’m going to be leaving early if you want me to post it tomorrow?” And said, “would you like the children to draw in it?” And she said yes, so I gave them both our cards to draw in.

When my wife was upstairs putting the little ones to bed, I went about tidying up downstairs and D3 always helps me. I wondered what to do about the ripped up card which was still on the floor, whether I should leave it so I don’t get accused of interfering with her stuff, or would that just make a point where she had to remember and focus on it again tomorrow… I could leave it on the floor or put it somewhere safe, or…?

I suddenly realised that D3 had picked up the pieces of card and was putting them in the recycle bin. I have so much to learn from my precious children.
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Bella2798
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2023, 03:29:20 AM »

Of course I have no experience of having children and a family of my own (and also in BPD as you know) but I just wanted to say I wish I could handle the situations just like you did. I imagine myself in that place and I can already feel the anxiety coming to me.
While I was reading your post I thought this situation could lead to an explosion but Thankful Person seemed to have control over it! Smiling (click to insert in post)
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thankful person
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Formerly known as broken person…


« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2023, 05:51:33 PM »

Bella, thank you so much for this. It helps me to realise how far I have come in “keeping things under control” (or trying to). My wife is so much calmer and the children are barely aware of what is going on between us. However I am seriously struggling with the devaluation for months now so it helps to feel I’m not such a failure. There’s certainly so much to learn in what they call “not making things worse”.
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“Maybe I’ll get it right next time…” from “Estranged” by Guns N’ Roses
Bella2798
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2023, 05:59:31 PM »

You've been a great help to me since I came here, and it always seemed to me that you've got such a wisdom. Devaluation sucks, I totally feel you. You're far from a failure I think! Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Notwendy
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« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2023, 06:32:54 AM »

I think you handled this well. The dynamics with the child are concerning- but also familiar. Love and attention are not limited to one kind of relationship. One can love their partner, their child, their parents. However, for some reason that I don't quite understand, a pwBPD seems to act as if when their partner loves a child or parent, it's somehow that this person is getting something that should be only for them. I don't understand this as it doesn't make sense to me because if I love my kids, and my spouse, it doesn't mean I love my spouse less.

There were times where it felt that my BPD mother did not like it when my father paid attention to me, and she didn't like his family. If my father was discussing something like homework with me, she'd interrupt. When we spoke on the phone, she'd listen into the conversation. I think her fear is that we may be talking about her, but more likely we'd be talking about something else.

So here's my concern about what happened with your wife. Your child is three years old and already your wife is perceiving the child on the same level as another adult in competition for attention. This is not an appropriate role for a child and also completely inappropriate to put some kind of other meaning on the actions of a 3 year old, who only wants to color on a card because - that is what 3 year olds want to do. My BPD mother also did something similar. She tells a story about how when I was a toddler, I came into her room to throw up on her carpet on purpose. That's ridiculous. A toddler with a stomach ache will run to their mother for comfort, not so they can throw up on her rug, and yet, this is how my BPD mother perceived it.

Then there is this unfounded perception of competition, like the card needs to only be from her, and that the child should only be coloring mother's day cards for the mothers, not the grandmothers and then your mother should not get the coloring on the card if her mother couldn't.

It's not the role of a child to attempt to understand a parent's needs and feelings and to accommodate them. It's the parents' job to understand the child's developmental needs and to accommodate them. A 3 year old can only do and think like a 3 year old. The child wanted to color on the card with her mommy- she did nothing wrong and yet, the situation was turned into something wrong somehow and it was the 3 year old who tidied up the torn card.

Do you see a common theme here in your wife devaluing you and finding something "hurtful" to her in even innocent action? This is her own distorted thinking that does this and so she can perceive a "wrong" in situations where there's nothing wrong- and she did this with the actions of a 3 year old too. I know this is very frustrating as it's clear you have good intentions, your child has good intentions too. It can be difficult to not "buy into" this thinking or try to fix it. I think it's great that you had the courage to have the child color the cards with your wife and not go along with her or do it in hiding. You role modeled keeping calm and taking the adult role with your child.
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thankful person
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Relationship status: Married
Posts: 967

Formerly known as broken person…


« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2023, 05:36:48 PM »

Not Wendy, thanks for the valuable feedback. I was proud of how I handled the situation but as you know I’m also concerned about the effect these incidents could have on the children especially as they grow up. I know my wife has distorted thinking and she also respects me more when I respect myself more. I feel this was a little reminder that she can no longer forbid me from doing things and I don’t have to make the same choices as her all the time. I know they say shame is a huge part of bpd and I wonder if my wife would have regretted her actions that day. Unlike some pwbpd, she never shares any disappointment in herself (apart from her physical appearance), she never would say, “I wish I hadn’t said or done that…”
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Notwendy
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2023, 06:21:10 PM »

From my point of view, I think it does affect the children no matter what, however, having an adult who does love them unconditionally can help mitigate that. It's not that your wife doesn't love the children, it's that her thinking is disordered and her feelings are projected on to others. The children are not able to understand that.

A child wants to feel their parent thinks well of them, so when a parent finds something wrong when there's good intentions, it does affect the child. My self esteem was low, and I became a people pleaser, very much wanting people to like me and being afraid they wouldn't. If you don't feel secure in your parents' love, it's hard to feel secure.

As an adult, I can see it's absurd to think a toddler throws up on the carpet on purpose. BPD mother has all kinds of stories confirming her projections. I didn't share a cookie with my sibling, so I was selfish, and then there's all the things I did as a teen (that all teens do some kind of mischief) but not the good grades, the getting into college, the positive things I did. She'll remind me of all the ways I supposedly caused her to feel hurt that I had no intention of doing.

As much work as I have done  with this relationship, and knowing it's not about me, I can still cry over her comments to me. I recently visited her and did all kinds of things to help her, yet she phoned me up to tell me she was upset over one small thing I didn't do. And I cried for her that she felt this way and from frustration.

I know this may be hard to hear but- you can make a difference whether or not you stay with your wife, because even if you did separate, your children would still spend time with their mother. She's their mother and like my mother it isn't all bad. But when there's disordered thinking- it's about the person - so it affects all their relationships. It isn't just with me, it's with other family members, her home health team, and anyone else who is trying to help her- they somehow get into the position of being the ones to disappoint her and it's so sad that her thinking leads her to feel this way. But it's also not all bad. She was a good mother at times, and she has a neighbor who is a close friend of hers and genuinely cares about her. I am glad for that and glad she can make this connection with someone.

My father did make a positive impact but also he often took her side to keep the peace and so would get angry at me too. His family had a big influence on me because they loved me unconditionally. With my mother, I felt I had to walk on eggshells and behave perfectly in order for her to love me. One thing that was very different with my cousins on my father's side is that, they could get into mischief (regular kid stuff, not anything terrible) and their mother still acted loving to them. Yes, there were consequences but she remained calm and loving. When we visited them, I could be a kid without fear and I didn't doubt their love for me. You can be that parent and it will make a difference.

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thankful person
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 967

Formerly known as broken person…


« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2023, 06:48:01 PM »

Thank you not Wendy. I’m so glad I found bpd family and learnt all this stuff because I imagine how much worse everything would be for the children and the card incident was just one example. On an appeasing day I would have quietly but sadly accepted that I was not allowed to have the child draw in my mother’s card. I may have asked my wife’s permission, but would have gone with her instructions. On a more conflicted day, there would have been tears and shouting and slammed doors on my part. Then begging for forgiveness all day while she stone walled me.. And the child probably still wouldn’t have got to draw in the card. I have come a long way and I will be forever grateful to you and the others who’ve helped me.

Bpd is a very sad state to be in, I agree. Even though my wife criticises and verbally attacks me for which I am resentful, I am also able to feel so sad for her that she feels so threatened and believes I am choosing to treat her poorly all the time. I even bought her roses again last week but was accused of them being the wrong colour “you got them for yourself!”, and getting them from the supermarket “that’s not special!”, and “we can’t afford them anyway…” I also noticed that, (honestly I did buy the flowers because I thought she would like them!) I have made a conscious decision to enjoy looking at the flowers rather than them making me feel sad looking at them, or feel that I shouldn’t be looking at them.

I have been thinking lots about what you said about the distorted thinking and how, if my wife is taking her feelings out on our 3yo then I see what you mean, it isn’t just that I’m a huge problem round here. I will remember that. I know my children need me to be sane and strong.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2023, 07:18:28 AM »

Yes, it's not you, it's her way of thinking, unfortunately.
A relationship between two adults is one of equals so you don't have to be in a state of obedience to her. Being the child and having a BPD parent- I had to obey my mother. To me, the actual situation is that the child should comply with the parent's rules to do things like tidy up, do homework, come to supper, take a bath. But for us, it was more like being in a state of obedience to her emotional needs. There were the reasonable rules like for all children but we complied not out of a relationship based on love but on fear.

Visits are similar. They involve me doing things for her while she remains in control. It seems that inevitably I don't do something in the exact way she wants it. You mentioned flowers. It's been common that when we give her flowers she finds something she doesn't like.

I won't obey her requests that are not in alignment with my own boundaries and she gets angry about that. Usually, during visits, though, I just go along with her, as I am fearful and anxious when I am around her.

You are doing your best to make a difference and one difference is that my father enabled this behavior. He didn't know any other way as it was decades ago when they married, no internet and no access to information on BPD. He just did what he thought he should do and she's doing what she has been used to, and also doesn't know another way to relate to us. You are taking a different path by not enabling irrational requests and I hope that this will make a difference.

 
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