IV. Writing an apology letter (Christian discussion)

[Fian]

On a more positive note about the apology letter i want to right the way i would like to set it out would be to first repent for the mistakes/sins of myself then explain how i think these impacted her and our relationship so she knows i understand what i did wrong and how it impacted her and then to lay out what i plan to do to change these things going forward so she knows i've thought a lot about each and every mistake/sin and understand what its done and how to change it.

I would recommend not doing the part in bold.  At this point she isn't interested in saving the marriage, so telling her your plan on how to save it is probably not the message to send to her at this point.  The only exception is if it is an area of your life that does not necessarily involve her.  If you felt God was working on you in the area of pride, and you were trying to be more humble in your daily life, that would be fine, but if it was something like servant leadership, which would obviously be practiced only on her, then she might feel that was pressuring her to reconcile.

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[understandBPD]

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[Skip]

Could people here who have read through everything point out anything else i may want to mention as sinful / apologize for ?

When the apology idea was first raised, we talked about a model something like this:

Which would you prefer to receive?

This...

.	I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. Forgive me for moving out. Please respect that things are broken and we need to give it time and see what happens. Please don't call me so that I don't hurt you more. Our lives will be better in the future.

Or this...

.	I'm sorry understandingBPD for not being a meek and obedient wife and not living up to my vows. You lived up to your side of our dream and I did not. I was selfish, and I hurt you and I hurt your mother. You have every right to be disappointed and angry. I let you down. I was wrong and I'm sorry.

The second example is 62 words. And, I think, it hits at the biggest concern you have about your wife "not being a meek and obedient wife and not living up to my [her] vows". It you received this tomorrow, I suspect you would feel heard. Would agree with that?

These 14 words are at its core: "not being a meek and obedient wife and not living up to my vows". It is much different than the first apology above. The first apology is hollow and self-referential. Would you agree with that?

What are the 14 words that should be at the core of your apology? What would make her feel heard?

Alright i think some of the areas i want to mention will be pride , stubborness , respect , videogames , job , taking her for granted , communication , hurting her emotionally , invalidating her feelings , being arguementative  would these be good areas to focus on based on everything i've said ?

These terms seem like more of the symptoms than the cause. Why are you prideful, stubborn, disrespectful, argumentative, etc? Having read all your posts here for content and observing how how you communicate with others, and assuming that there were elements of this in your relationship, I suspect she would want to hear something like

.	I'm sorry for letting my self-righteous behavior choke the love and compassion out of our marriage.

Short. Powerful. It will be read. She will feel heard. The first problem is that you probably can't say something like this right now. The second problem is that something of lessor statement of self-awareness is not going to break through the walls that have been built up over the last seven months and 20-30 unanswered emails.

I do hope you will at least "take this on board" and think about it rather than mounting a defense. I know its painful to read. I know anyone would fearful that this is too vulnerable. Maybe the real message is that you need more time to do what you told her you would do:

.	"process what happened" and "understand the difference between the man I am and the man I want to be".

As I pointed out earlier, you have written thousands of words since you started the apology discussion but there isn't anything that suggests that you are mentally in the mind space to face the magnitude of change that is likely needed if there is to be any hope of saving your marriage.

You recently said this:

A big part of me has regret for being so lenient with her to allow her to do things i knew weren't really good ideas for example if i said she isn't going to work and were going to start having kids now and went ahead with that this situation would of been very different. By trying to do what's right and made her happy it's turned out a disaster for me i now have a wife who's left me has no intention of returning and wants to divorce and being able to do so in a western country is relatively simple process especially without children.

Would you write this to her now? Of course not. Can you see the dichotomy here? Can you feel it? This is this very different than I'm sorry for letting my self-righteous behavior choke the love and compassion out of our marriage. Is one statement the man who your are, and the other statement the man who you need (want) to be?

If you are not crystal clear on "the difference between the man I am and the man I want to be" , take a little more time and talk it out here.

This is hard stuff. Good mental health is hard.

[understandBPD]

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[once removed]

it is a good first draft.

it says everything you want to say (probably not literally, but it gets it all down). it is heartfelt.

I don't think i can sum up everything in 14 words or less

i dont think the suggestion was to reduce your entire letter to 14 words. it was to focus on the core message - the part shes really going to hear (14 words or so).

your letter, in its current form, wont really achieve that in a focused way. its a list of wrongs you want to right, which is good. i would sit on it, and i would reread it, several times, with the goal of really internalizing what i put on paper.

the other immediate problem i see with the current form, is that while you dont ask her to take you back, and you went out of your way to avoid mentioning any marital obligations, if it were a letter that someone sent to me, and i imagine she would have a similar read, is that i would take it as "here are all the things i promise to do/not do if you come back".

lots of times, members come here, after being the ones to end the relationship. their ex will offer heartfelt apologies, and promises of change. there are all kinds of reactions to them. they may be tempted. they may feel validated. they may feel invalidated (sort of like "why now? why couldnt you see this before?). they feel conflicted on how, or whether to respond. but they always have a great deal of difficulty trusting it. the advice for them is usually two fold: 1. its probably not an issue of sincerity, but follow through, and 2. loss is a powerful motivator. change really has to come from a willingness within.

my point is not to compare you to someones bpd ex, but to, as always, consider how your letter will be heard, and to do that, you have to put yourself in her shoes.

my memory is really fuzzy about this, but my ex and i had a fight once. she was in a mood, and it was a bigger picture thing, but she had put down my christmas gifts to her, and essentially said that the ones she gave me were better, and more expensive. wow. even now, i cant resist the impulse to point out that not only was that not true, but her mother paid for them. i digress. it was not just hurtful, but pretty unattractive of her. some time later (months), we were talking, and i brought it up. she looked at me and said that it was a horrible thing to say, that no ones gifts are better than anyones, and that shed never do it again (less than 20 words). i didnt have to see any evidence. in that moment, i believed her. i knew she would never do it again, and she never did. she was also the most thoughtful gift giver ive ever met, and we had some pretty joyful christmases after that.

the core of your message has to come from that same place. where there is no leap of faith required, but the change is felt with conviction.

so, i offer these suggestions more as food for thought than specific changes to your letter. its a very good start. im glad you shared it, it will help immeasurably to have feedback when even a sentence or two could throw off what youre trying to say and how youre trying to say it. i do encourage you not to rush this. as much as you can, in a relatively small period of time, its important to actually live and experience the change for yourself. think of it this way: the 13, 23, and 33 year old versions of you would all have written very different things. there may not be much time, but the more time you do connecting with the 43 year old version of you, the clearer what to say will become.

[Skip]

I think once removed is right, your draft is a good start. It's really good to get all this down.

Question? Do you think she would believe you if you said you learned to play the piano in the eight days (since your last email)? Would she believe if you said you lost 30 pounds (in 20 days)? Of course not.

In the same way, it's not believable that you acted one way with fierce intensity for seven months and then suddenly changed - woke up one morning as a different human being. No words will convince her (or anyone).

At 90-150 days, it's credible to say you have started to change. Especially if you can point to things you have done like work in a domestic abuse shelter, complete a marriage bible study, enroll in a seminary class, close your gaming account, become a big brother, etc. Let her see that you have the right attitude and are doing the work.

To be credible, you must then handle the 90-150 days in an emotionally mature manner.

Life is a chess game, not checkers. You gave her an emotionally mature (probably shocking) response to her divorce email – that showed change, and it bought you some time. A month later, you can send a powerful/brief apology – that will also show change (probably more shocking) and buy you more time. This alone buys you 90 days of building credibility and 90 days to do something meaningful toward change.

Baby steps.

At 90 days, you could send a short note about how much you are learning in domestic abuse work – and maybe lament about one thing you are sorry about in the marriage. "You know, I realized something when I was volunteering today that reminded me of what happened between us with gaming. Dear, I was bind". Now you are at 120 days.

Your mom can tell her, "Johnny has really changed."

Hopefully, somewhere in all of this, she reaches out to you.

Baby steps.

And please don't think my examples here are anything more than just examples. You have to map out your own 150 days. And you have to decide if you are really interested in making a change.

It's certainly OK with all of us if you choose a different path. If you feel you have to send a 1,000 word "I've seen the light, Dear Jesus, and I have changed" letter tomorrow you should send it, and people here can help you tweak it. Maybe you are right. Maybe she is on the brink of jumping into bed with someone from Facebook, and this is your one-and-only chance to stop that.

But at least consider that your wife stayed a virgin until she was 26, is married, lives with her parents right now, is in therapy, and resides in a country where they lash adulteresses. This is not an environment likely (not impossible, but not likely) to germinate a meaningful new relationship.

Is your urgency real and you are making an emotionally wise decision? Are you struggling with depression/anxiety and the twisted thinking it brings?

[BPDFamily]

We split this discussion of the "The Bible and Marriage (Christian discussion)" from "IV. Writing an apology letter (Christian discussion)"

They are related topics but each each is important enough to command a dedicated thread.

[Fian]

Let me give an example, that I don't think is you, but I want to explain why an apology could be rejected.  Husband beats his wife.  Next day he feels bad, gives her a heart-felt apology.  She takes him back.  Next week he beats his wife again.  Maybe she gives him another chance.  But as the cycle repeats she eventually separates.  He then gives her another heart-felt apology, and she rejects it.  She doesn't believe that he is capable of change.

In your case, I don't see you apologizing to your wife much in the past - maybe I am wrong.  Certainly, not to this degree.  So, I think you have a much better chance for your letter being believed.  On the other hand, there is a huge amount of emotional inertia when it comes to making a decision to get a divorce.  It takes a lot to make that decision. She is going to be reluctant to open the door to a new direction.

As for what you wrote in your letter, the observation I have is the use of the word "repent."  It is a theologically charged word that I don't normally see in an apology between 2 people - normally between a person and God.  That doesn't mean you shouldn't use it, as the language should be your own.

I've worked very hard to break this addiction completely and do not want it to be a part of my life or ever be used as a way to cope with difficulties ever again it is gone and never coming back.

So, you have stopped playing video games?

[stolencrumbs]

It's really hard to post something that personal and have a bunch of people you don't know offer thoughts on it. Kudos for doing that.

I'll preface by saying that I have been teaching various forms of writing and composition for over 20 years, so some of this is just me looking at it the way I would look at any writing I was evaluating. But I also think what I'm going to say is maybe another way to get at some of what Skip and Once Removed are saying.

So my reaction when I first read your apology was that it was a little too cerebral, or a little rote. Or both. There are parts of it that didn't strike me that way (the parts about being heartbroken that you've hurt her and made her cry and that you think she's amazing and you're proud to call her your wife). But a good bit of it did strike me that way. I don't think it is being inauthentic or that you're not sincere with what you're saying. But it might be that living a bit more with what you're saying, and living what you are saying, would deepen how you're feeling and change the way that gets expressed.

I'm not sure if this helps explain how it currently strikes me, and I don't mean this as an insult at all. Writing is hard. Writing an apology is really hard. Writing a good apology is really, really hard. But I put a prompt into ChatGPT asking it to write an apology loosely based on your situation. The actual prompt I gave was two sentences with some basic information. This is what it gave me:

Dear [Wife's Name],

I hope this letter finds you well. I've spent a lot of time reflecting on the past six months, and I want to start by saying how much I miss you. Our separation has given me a lot of insight into my own actions and how they have hurt you. I understand that I've made mistakes, and I want to sincerely apologize for the pain I've caused you.

First and foremost, I want to apologize for my pride and stubbornness. I realize that my pride has often stood in the way of open communication and compromise in our relationship. I'm sorry for not always listening to your perspective and being so stubborn in my own ways.

I also want to acknowledge my addiction to video games. I understand that my excessive gaming has taken away time and attention that should have been devoted to you and our relationship. I'm committed to seeking help and making necessary changes to overcome this addiction.

I deeply regret being condescending towards you. It was never my intention to belittle or disrespect you, but I see now that my words and actions may have made you feel undervalued. I'm truly sorry for the times I made you feel this way.

Perhaps most importantly, I apologize for not cherishing you as I should have. You are a gift from God, and I failed to appreciate and cherish the amazing person that you are. I promise to work on being a better husband and showing you the love and respect you deserve.

I understand that apologies are just words, and actions speak louder. I'm committed to making amends and working towards rebuilding our relationship. I want us to grow together in our faith and as a couple.

I hope that you can find it in your heart to forgive me and consider giving us another chance. I miss you every day, and I long for the opportunity to make things right. Please know that I love you deeply, and I'm willing to put in the effort to restore our relationship.

I'm praying for guidance and strength, and I hope that God will lead us back to each other.

This isn't exactly like your apology, but it's not worlds apart from it. At the end of the day, I think you're going to need your apology to sound less like a large language model could've generated it. I think that's more likely to happen if you do some of the things Skip, once removed, and others have suggested.

[understandBPD]

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[Skip]

It's bit confusing because the book [Exemplary Husband ]tells me to Repent > Explain how it hurt her > Apologize > Ask for forgiveness but then on this board im being told to not ask for forgiveness as well im hoping she understands why i haven't asked for forgiveness.

The reason not to ask for forgiveness was to keep the focus on her. It was suggested not to be self-referential or ask for something in return for the apology. This is done so that the apology is not diminished by appearing as a means to get something in return.

In your draft, you have already gone beyond an apology and said that the problems are solved which implies getting back together ("I understand how they impacted and hurt you and what I've done to ensure they never happen again"). In this context, you could certainly go one more step and ask for forgiveness, too (i.e., let go of your negative feelings). You could go two more, and ask that she move back.

The question you have to ask is whether you are demonstrating the things you claim in your draft (empathy, emotional intelligence, validating, etc) or are you being stubborn and tone-deaf to send all this in response to her saying she is pursuing a divorce? An unencumbered apology has less risk of evoking a negative reaction.

[understandBPD]

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[Skip]

Often we write things at times like this that the other person feels they can't respond to without opening a can of worms. Gottman 4.

In your last email, there was a simple test question in it to see if she would respond. All it would require is a one word response "OK". Normally people would respond to that, especially in a situation like this. She didn't. That should give you some sense of how guarded she is right now.

If you are trying to get her to engage, you have to be careful not to overreach.

Thank you for writing to me.

I really wasn’t expecting this, but I hear you. I know this must be extremely difficult for you. I will pray for you to have strength and wisdom.

There are things we will need to discuss, but first I would like to take a little time to process this and all that has happened. I need to think about who I am and who I want to be. I hope that is OK with you.

I respect you. I want what is right for you.

[understandBPD]

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[Pook075]

Hey Understanding!  I write for a living so I want to give a different perspective here that might help.  Companies hire me to take their complex features of products and break it down into simple, straightforward content that their ideal customers could quickly relate to.  Usually, that's one short sentence at the top of a website or document.

Here's the thing though, the client usually says, "You have to talk about this, this, and this.  It all has to be there up front because it's the most important things!"  And I'll tell them, "Sure, that's the most important part to you, but your average customer could care less about that. They're focused on how it will make their lives easier."

So if you want to make a real impact here, stop thinking about what you want to say.  Instead, focus on what she needs to hear from you to reverse this.

If you go into extensive detail about all the things you've done wrong, that's going to make her think about...all the things you've done wrong.  We don't want to focus on that since it will almost surely backfire.  Instead, let's talk about what really matters to her, to someone struggling with mental illness and a failed relationship.

Off the top of my head, I can think of a few things that are more important:

- I love you and miss you dearly
- I was foolish and stubborn
- I took far too much for granted
- I am truly sorry

If we want to talk about how you've changed, then reflecting on the past is not the way.  Instead, focus on today and tomorrow:

- I have almost completely stopped playing video games. Instead, I spend that time doing <this> and <this>.
- I am planning to do <thing> this winter and maybe <thing> starting in the Spring.

These types of statements don't say, "Look at me and how I've changed!" This is actually showing her you've changed without it seeming like a brag about yourself. This way is more humble and also more effective.

Finally, we end every letter with a value statement, a big takeaway that will stay on the reader's mind.  My first thought here would be something very simple and straightforward:

- I love you and I will always be here for you.
- I'm so sorry for everything that's happened and I want you to know that I forgive you as the Lord forgives all of us.

Something along those lines.  I hope that helps!

[understandBPD]

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[Skip]

From my perspective there should be plenty of reasons why she should be conflicted or having a really difficult time going through with this for example her vowels , living situation , financial situation , the fact she hasn't given me a single chance , not even being able to see me face to face and have a discussion about the marriage and probably list of other things that could be done prior to divorce.

While i don't think divorce is even a real option if i was to put myself in her shoes and she feels strongly enough about a divorce i would think it should be the absolute last option after you've exhausted everything possible and you are absolutely certain this marriage cannot change or be improved at all that or some kind of unforgivable mistake has been made e.g adultery.

I don't believe for a single moment any of those conditions have been met nor can she confidently believe she's tried everything or even given me a fair chance to improve the marriage. I have hope at some point she is going to reconsider this or at least say hey i can at least talk to him hear him out and see what happens before i blow up our marriage permanently.

You have said the above repeatedly over the last 5 weeks and I assume for seven months in your emails to her. Don't you think she is not opening the door for this very reason -  because she knows you will "fight to the death" until she come back? Do anything, say anything to make it happen - pressure, guilt, shame, sweet talk, promise - that there is little possibility for an open discussion that would respect her desires, especially if those desires are to stay away and think for a while (without conditions) or exploring divorce.

This is basically my point she isn't going to engage i don't forsee anything i say in communication to her receiving a response. The only way i will get a response is if its unrelated to our relationship or if its something to do with divorce.

Perhaps i am wrong and you can correct me but the only way i forsee her ever actually engaging with me is if something i say resonates with her and makes her think about things and question her decision to continue pursuing a divorce.

If she sees this as the primary reason behind the apology, and you said she was smart, it will make things worse - more so because you are claiming you have changed and are a new man.

An apology is a wonderful gift to give someone who has been wronged. You care for her, do this for her. Don't undermine it with other messages.

“If you love someone, set them free; if they come back to you, it was meant to be.”

You face an important decision here. I pray for you to have strength and wisdom to make the right choice.

Weigh everything that has been said by the members here, your therapist, and the books you have read.

[once removed]

“If you love someone, set them free; if they come back to you, it was meant to be.”

It might be a helpful exercise to consider what you would want to say, if you knew that it wouldn't succeed, and that she would still go through divorce no matter what. If trying to change her heart or reach her were no part of your apology, what might that look like?

You don't have to answer this now, but consider it as you continue to approach this.

[Pook075]

Hello Pook,

Thank you for your advice i think its definetly helpful.

The problem is i've written her so many letters / emails saying things along the lines of i love you / i miss you / im sorry etc

Same goes for all the endings of my letters were along the lines of i love you , im always here for you , ill be waiting for you , im sorry for everything , please forgive me , please let God heal our marriage etc etc

So with the apology letter i was trying to avoid saying these things once again so its not similar to every other email/letter she's received from me.

The information about reflecting change is certainly helpful and i can look to reword things to convey that message better.

I completely get it because you say it so often, it can often feel generic.  Your goal here is to (1) show sympathy and understanding while also (2) showing you've changed.  However, you can't say "I've changed" because everyone says that in these situations.  So what you write has to be truly authentic and from the heart.

I'm not a Biblical scholar by any means, but this sort of reminds me of Moses speaking with God and saying, "What if they don't believe me?"  So God teaches him a few nifty tricks, like turning his staff into a serpent and back again.  That's not what did it though, it was Moses's walk with God that made all the difference.  Other parts of the Bible touch on this by saying a Christian walking by faith will have an undeniable aura about them, a change that sets them apart.  People will know the truth because they will see the truth, feel it even.  I've had those experiences since my break up and committing to God. 

It may seem tougher doing that in a letter, but now is the time to dig deeper and be truly vulnerable.  Don't say it- show it through your walk.  Let your wife see the changes in you through your actions and your focus.

With my ex, she was incapable of seeing it in me even though everyone else around her could.  And I'd cry out to God asking why?  Why is this happening?  What do I have to do to make this work? The answer came to me in time through understanding one simple verse- "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not in your own understanding."

You see, I wanted my wife back, but God wanted me to humble myself and witness to my daughters, my brother, and other family members.  Over our 13 months apart, the "God things" in my life just kept happening and people would ask me about the Bible or faith out of nowhere.  I touched so many people's lives through God's grace, and none of that happens if I had my will...it had to be God's will in command.

Now, I'm not saying this to discourage you.  It's quite the opposite in fact.  My point is that you can't do this without God, and that's who will determine whether your wife stays away or returns.  Right now you're in a storm and trying to think of anything you can personally do to right the wrongs of the past, but God calls us to live in the present and serve his will.  If God wants your wife to return, she'll return.  The reason He's waiting though has to do with both your heart and your wife's.

Maybe there's something left for you to do, or maybe your wife is not where she needs be in order to return to you with an open heart.  My best advice, my only advice, is to let God sort that out while you yield to His will.  And if you have to write a letter, then make sure it comes from the heart and aligns with all of God's principles.

[understandBPD]

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[stolencrumbs]

Just a quick note to clarify my comment about ChatGPT. My recommendation was to sound *less* like ChatGPT, not more like that. You don't want to sound like a large language model produced the words.

[understandBPD]

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[once removed]

Again i am open to hearing feedback and potentially changing this or not asking for anything but my reasoning would be

youve stated your reasoning. it makes sense, coming from your perspective, why you would want to try this approach.

we have each stated our reasoning, as to why it is doubling down on a failed approach, will not achieve your goals, and will work against you.

you dont appear interested in substantially changing approaches with your message. fair enough.

from where im sitting, if that letter is the approach you want to take, edits here and there will not make a difference. timing will not make a difference. you might as well send as is.

[understandBPD]

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[once removed]

Respectfully, we have all given substantial input. You have objected to all of it.

Furthermore, you have now included, in your updated draft, things that were strongly and unanimously suggested against.

There is no way that I see to turn this approach into one that will achieve your goals.

You seem confident that this is what you want to do. You know your wife best. You believe this approach will work, and that if it doesn't, you won't regret sending it.

OK.

[understandBPD]

You seem confident that this is what you want to do. You know your wife best. You believe this approach will work, and that if it doesn't, you won't regret sending it.

You're right.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to contribute.

God will decide the outcome.

[BPDFamily]

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