40 years later: First love of my life has reappeared

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Is there any way you can go away with your son for a few days—somewhere far away, so that the territory isn’t familiar and you don’t have reminders of the past?

If you can do this, you will have some time and space to think clearly, which you currently are not doing at the present.

[Cat Familiar]

Is there any way you can go away with your son for a few days—somewhere far away, so that the territory isn’t familiar and you don’t have reminders of the past?

If you can do this, you will have some time and space to think clearly, which you currently are not doing at the present.

[2020]

Cat, that is a good suggestion. I don’t know what to do. I have been having a long text converstion about art and music with #1. She is recording a track and wanted my input. Creatively we are really hitting it off. And at the same time I told #3 I will visit her today. I will just have to play along as I really don’t know what else to do. I am seriously wishing if I were unconnected to anyone, my life would be way easier right now. But maybe this is just me avoiding things. I can’t run away. This is stressing me out. What is the universe telling me here? What are my lessons? And will I learn them? I feel doomed.

[Cat Familiar]

Someone is going to be upset, no matter what you choose. And you are being forced into a choice; even choosing not to choose is a choice. What do you truly want? That is the question you need to be asking yourself.

[2020]

Thanks Cat. This is going to be really hard for me. I’ve run around being a people pleaser, trying to fix other peoples problems. It is a terrible habit. You are right. I need to figure out what I truly want.

I wish it could have been better with my current partner. It has just got worse. And after ten years I am shell shocked. There has been too much bloodshed. The suicide attempts have been extreme. I have literally brought her back from the brink of death and afterwards, there is no follow up. Not for her or for me. Nobody bothered to ask me if I was ok; how I was coping. Infact her family blame me. I cant even have a relationship with my own sister or my sons. Every connection has been poisoned. I don’t know how I could turn that around.

And then there is girlfriend #1. She is being very kind to me. We have spoken about our past as kids and healed some major things which had been haunting us since the 80s. It has been worth it for that alone. I would like to keep seeing her but I am scared to cause trouble. She deserves to have someone ‘available’, and I can’t be 100% available because of my autistic son and my relationship with my current partner. And that has moved so fast. This has all happened out of the blue in the space of a few weeks.

As I keep saying, I am very confused. This is why I just want to run away. I think the best option might be to be alone for a bit. Maybe all relationships need to be off the cards for some time?

I am now going drive to see my current partner. There has been no itimacy for months and months. No sex, no touching, even a hug is rare. She knows I am very depressed and is going to try hard to fix this. I just think it is too late. Things have been left to rot and we are now at this point. I doubt even a short term fix will make this better.

I just wish this wasn’t so painful.

[SaltyDawg]

After being on this public forum for 5 years, I am coming to the realisation that the focus has to be on ourselves. We can’t fix these people. We need to fix ourselves. Because we are as much a part of the problem as they are. We might have even been the entire problem all along.

Mate, that is tremendous insight.  Good on ya.  NW & FD both offer up really good advice.  I will echo that too.  Take some time off, give yourself some space to think about this. 

The allure of #1 is extremely strong, it is clouding your judgement, as it is definitely moving too quick for a normal & healthy relationship - you were in the same bed, the 2nd evening... with someone who has been a stranger for decades, albeit having some familiarity from childhood.

I will circle back to this a little bit later on...  now for your most recent comments and thoughts...


I am in a situation which I don’t like. I have never behaved like this before, and I never imagined this would happen. I have a connection with two women at the same time now. You cannot juggle that type of thing. It is not fair.

Due to your people pleasing tendencies, you now find yourself wanting to please both of them, in their own respective ways, and this has muddied the waters for you - sooner or later something is going to break, and you could wind up losing both women.


Last night I found myself in text message conversations with both of them simultaneously. It is an impossible situation. I actually feel like crap. The woman I have been with now for a long time is very upset:

“I can not sleep and I am a nervous wreck…… you will not ring me or visit me to tell me what is honestly happening. After ten years you choose to break up with me after three days of ignoring me via an obscure text. This is cruel. This is not love. This is torture. You are playing me because you can not be honest and give me a definitive “ I am dumping you”.

#3 obviously senses that something is 'not right', borderlines, are finely attuned to your emotional state, I know mine is, and the smallest little thing that is out of place will set them off.


I have not said I am breaking up with her. I said I was very unhappy and needed some time to work on myself. She wanted me to see her today:

“How about you visit tomorrow night and we be intimate….. I really miss us making love”

She is suffering and so am I. Because things became so awful between us, I ran towards an escape hatch and I feel terrible.

Mate, I can see how are running to an 'escape hatch' especially as you said in one of your earlier posts, "What I do know is there has been nothing intimate between the two of us for months. She has told me she is never having sex with me again and that I repulse her.[/b]"

A borderline, will use this, sex, as 'love bombing' to reel you back in, she senses that you are pulling away.  If you do see her, make sure she cannot get into your phone, borderlines have no boundaries and they will snoop, mine wants a continually updated list of all of my passwords, so I keep nothing that would even remotely trigger mine on it.  You might want to rename her contact to your sister's name as that is the story you are using.  Make sure you remove all finger prints and only have your able to access the phone, likewise, change the PIN as well.


And then there is girlfriend #1:

“I have just been letting my other love interests know that I am not available at this time.  I hope that goes down ok. Maybe they won't care much..”

“ Its not everyone in the world fancying me, there are only two people I felt I needed to inform, gosh. I am feeling a lot more deeply about you. And its messy involving multiple people. I want to make things as simple and clean as I can, to give us the best chance.“

I asked her if it was wise ending connections with other people for me. We had only just reconnected. Then I said maybe I just said the wrong thing?

#1 is making moves to make the relationship between you and #1 exclusive.  That is a personal choice that she is making, and she is signaling to you that she is 'really in to you'.  You need to figure out if this is a natural form of idealization of rekindling your love from decades ago or one that is disordered - help from a therapist might be helpful in sorting out this question.  My recommendation is to 'tap the brakes'.


“Thinking maybe you feel bad about me letting my friends know I'm not going to continue flirting cos you have too much invested elsewhere yourself ? Is that true at all? And maybe you don't know whether you want to pursue things with me, despite strong feelings, which would be fair enough given such early days. Maybe I acted too soon.  But its ok. It doesn't mean I expect anything of you. I actually told you about it (ending connection with other interests) thinking it might be relaxing for you. But now seeing it might be the opposite”

#1 has a lot of insight, so this is not a but a .  This is a good thing, as a typical borderline would not be able to discern this with all or nothing thinking - this is shades of gray, although it is an off-white shade...


I just don’t know what to do about any of this. I don’t even know how to speak to these two women. They deserve respect from me! I wish I could simply run away.

You are incredibly conflicted right now - and this is a very difficult feeling to manage as you want to please both of them.


And this is my problem: Because I have never stood up for me in my entire life, I am now in this impossible situation. I don’t want to upset anyone, and now everone will be upset because of me. I will end up alone and miserable. I feel connected to both of these women. It is a horrible scenario. Everyone will hate me soon, if they don’t already! I am about to serve out the remaining years of my life alone, caring for my autistic son.

You are being way too hard on yourself, mate.  The only way you will end up 'alone' is if you make that your only choice.  As others have told you, you have 3 choices...

From what you have described on how you feel that you have 'never stood up' for yourself in your entire life is likely to be true in the present; however, you did leave #1, years ago, when she dated another.  You need to discern more deeply than she dated another - you may want to focus here for a bit...

... now for the 3 choices...

#1 - take the chance and pursue a relationship with #1, it will be new and exciting.  She is likely a codependent (similar to being a borderline) and if it isn't navigated well, it has the potential to being a disaster; however, on the flip side of the coin, it can be an incredible relationship.  This is the risk you will have to discern if you are open to it - right now - I am seeing 'analysis paralysis' in you, as you do not know where to turn.  A licensed therapist would be a good place to get some grounding in this matter.

#2 - take a break from both women, sort out your feelings for each one of them - make a list if you must, write down the positives and negatives of each one.  Sleep on it, for many days, preferably a week or more, then make up your mind.  Be tactfully honest with each woman, tell each one you are taking some space to figure things out, and tell them you will let them know in a week's or a month's time on what you are going to do - it would be unfair to drag it out longer than a month.  Perhaps use the "New Years resolution" as an excuse on why you are doing this as you don't want to be in relationship anymore where you are treated the way you had been.  In the meantime reconnect with your son, take time to do some self-care, whatever.  If you choose to stay in #2 either by choice, or 'analysis paralysis', and stay to take care of your son, it is not the end of the world.  Once you settle down into a new routine; you could check out dating apps, or find some friends and do other things rather than letting someone else rule your life.

#3 - You could go back to the familiar, #3, being mindful, not too long ago she dressed up and visited a crush at 3 AM, and didn't come home, if that happened to me, for me that is a big .  I would suggest that you re-evaluate your relationship with #3 based on what you have shared with us earlier as it sounds very toxic and unhealthy.

Likewise, #1 could be unhealthy; however, she has shown some signs of maturity; however, there are other signs that indicate otherwise.  Make a list.  Take time for yourself.  It is warm right now where you live down under, enjoy the great outdoors, and figure out what you want for yourself.  Sleep on it, don't be impulsive, for at least a week or up to a month, before making a decision that will affect the rest of your life.

I also understand not wanting to spend the rest of your days alone - I am 56, close in age to you, mate - I get it. 


There is a definite strong connection with girlfriend #1, but neither of us can figure out what it is.

I will take an educated stab as to 'what it is' - as I alluded to in my previous post, you have 'unresolved issues' between the the two of you, as there was a pregnancy, a mother who split you up, and then she dated another after you reconnected.  This is a spark that will fan the flames of passion - if it burns too quickly, it will get out of control, and can burn itself out quickly, or it can be the start of something wonderful - you are at this point now.


No doubt we had a really nice intimate weekend.

Cherish this memory; however, don't let it rule you.  Use 'wise mind' top of the tool menu, to figure out what you want to do.


It wasn’t bpd sex. It was on a completely different level. Maybe this is sex addict sex? I have never come across this before. It was like a climax from a single sex act frozen in ice and allowed to thaw over two days. And I am still feeling its echoes now. Was I just love bombed?

You did indicate she is a 'sex addict'.  This is a question best asked to a trained therapist.  Since you have asked the question, you need to discern an answer for this question before you choose to move forward with #1.


And the other aspect in regard to girlfriend #1 is this upfront directness. There is none of the outlandish accusations and gaslighting. For the first time in ages, I can relax and be myself.

  Love bombing starts off this way, borderlines and codependents have a tendency to 'overshare' in the beginning which I believe that you are describing as 'upfront directness'.  Gaslighting won't come until you are devalued, this hasn't happened [yet] and hopefully it will not happen. 


I need to be honest with myself first. I need to think very carefully about what I want in my life.

Yes, you do 'need to be honest with yourself first'. 


On our recent connection:

“Maybe part of it for me is actually the tension between you being so familiar, but also brand new. It was intense from the first moment. That recognition. I didn't expect to recognise you that much. Do you think we also recognised the starving in each other? Might that have created a magnetism?“

Here is somebody who analyses things and expresses themselves. There is no bpd raging or distortions….yet!  It feels nice to communicate with someone on this level.

But I do need to figure out a way through all of this. I need to think about me. I wonder if my connection with the current partner is me fulfilling a need by being this caretaker? Maybe there is a good dose of FOG keeping me there too, plus not wanting to hurt anybody.

You are asking some really good questions, and making some excellent observations about yourself - please take the necessary time to sort these out.


The problem is girlfriend #1 clearly would like to pursue something with me, or at least stay connected to me.  #3 is feeling very worried and abandoned right now. I feel very bad about this. I will have to see her today and try to figure out what to say to her. I will not be disclosing what has happened recently with #1. I just don’t know what to say. She can tell my behaviour is out of character and senses the end might be nigh. She is now trying to desperately repair things between us.

I think your assessment is a good one - you have the  knowledge - with this knowledge there is power - use it wisely and do what is best for you, 2020.


And there is this third option for me. I tell both these women that I have thought about this and really need to be single right now to get myself well again and be available fully as a partner in a relationship. I suppose that way I will be by myself and so will they. We all lose but perhaps it is the best option because the torture ends. I don’t want to juggle two women at once. It is not on in my books, and that is what I am doing right now.

I have four options: I juggle this current conundrum until it all falls down. I end things with #3 and get involved with #1. I end it with #1 and continue with #3. Or I just decide to be single.

Whatever the answer, this is moving way too fast. As exciting as it is with #1, I need to think with a level head and not with my  ! I have been living in an abusive relationship for a decade, that is true. Girlfriend number one pointed this out clearly to me on the weekend and also indentified the fact I am still in it. She gets it because she has lived it many times herself.

This is so incredibly complex. For once in my life I need to stand up for myself! But for some unknown reason I am frozen like a mouse looking into the open mouth of a snake.

You know what you are looking at.  Currently you have 'analysis paralysis' and need to figure out what you want for you.  Make a list, sleep on it, set a reasonable boundary if one or both demand an answer, a week, a month, but do take time to deliberately make a choice of commitment, one way or another; however, do not be impulsive in your decision.

I see that Cat has comment and you responded I will comment on that shortly...

...to be continued...

[SaltyDawg]

It has just got worse. And after ten years I am shell shocked. There has been too much bloodshed. The suicide attempts have been extreme. I have literally brought her back from the brink of death and afterwards, there is no follow up. Not for her or for me. Nobody bothered to ask me if I was ok; how I was coping. Infact her family blame me. I cant even have a relationship with my own sister or my sons. Every connection has been poisoned. I don’t know how I could turn that around.

If this is an active emergency, you need to ring up emergency services immediately at 000 - with her suicide threats/attempts - it is not your responsibility to save her.  My uBPDw would use her suicide gestures/attempts to manipulate me, in half of them she literally commented "you are not supposed to behave this way" after I diffused the situation by taking the instrument of death out of her hands.  This needs a firm, non-negotiable boundary, and that is to ring emergency services at 000 immediately. 

Additional help can be found here:  https://www.safetyandquality.gov.au/our-work/mental-health/emergency-mental-health-contact-details depending on where you are located, I suspect the east coast - I've been to Gladstone & Brisbane areas in my work in 1997 & 1999, great people there.


And then there is girlfriend #1. She is being very kind to me. We have spoken about our past as kids and healed some major things which had been haunting us since the 80s. It has been worth it for that alone. I would like to keep seeing her but I am scared to cause trouble. She deserves to have someone ‘available’, and I can’t be 100% available because of my autistic son and my relationship with my current partner. And that has moved so fast. This has all happened out of the blue in the space of a few weeks.

Tap the brakes; however, do figure out what is best for you, and your son. 

Can you share with us how functional your son is?  I am assuming he is somewhat functional as you felt good enough to take a 3-day, 2 night trip.


As I keep saying, I am very confused. This is why I just want to run away. I think the best option might be to be alone for a bit. Maybe all relationships need to be off the cards for some time?

Take some time, but not too much time, as an opportunity like this will only come along once.  You might have a dream - it could be 'happy ever after' or it could be jumping from the fire into the frying pan - read my previous posts for my analogy of this.


I am now going drive to see my current partner. There has been no itimacy for months and months. No sex, no touching, even a hug is rare. She knows I am very depressed and is going to try hard to fix this. I just think it is too late. Things have been left to rot and we are now at this point. I doubt even a short term fix will make this better.

If you get into a fight, be willing to leave and go back to your son as a boundary.  If she does a suicide gesture/attempt, ring 000. 

Take care.  Do self-care.  Let us know how it went.

SD

I just wish this wasn’t so painful.

Don't we all?

[Notwendy]

I think you got some good advice from Cat and SaltyDawg. I did notice some "awfulizing"- taking an extreme point of view when you said you'd be "alone forever". If it happens that you are with neither of them, and alone for a while- that doesn't mean forerever.

As to GF #1- she seems to contradict herself "we are not going to have sex" and then invites you to sleep in her bed. What does she think is going to happen? But with her history of SA, she may also have difficulty with boundaries and while that isn't her fault - it's something to pay attention to.

The message about breaking up with other suitors "but don't feel obligated" - that's exactly how you feel. She is saying she is doing all this for you. You've had one meeting in 40 years- and she's changing her life around already? And you, being a people pleaser, are feeling pressured.

Your current GF#3 senses you pulling away and is escalating her behavior.

Where are you in all this? Are either of these women concerned about your feelings? They seem to both be pulling at you. If you need some time to yourself- that isn't a break up- (that is also going to the worst conclusion). What is your support system? Counseling can help you learn to stand up for yourself.

There's an acronym in 12 steps "HALT" when we are feeling hungry, angry, lonely, tired- this is the time to examine our feelings, do some self care. If GF #1 hasn't been a part of your life for decades, you don't have to decide right now what to do. ( actually her response to you putting on the brakes could be telling- if she escalates, that tells you something).

[ForeverDad]

We all have moods and emotions. Even people with extreme Borderline behaviors (pwBPD).  This is human.  But people with Borderline traits do push what would be normal traits and behaviors to extremes, to the point of being dysfunctional and unhealthy.

Your GF#3 has over the years become used to you being willing to get pushed away and sit simmering on the periphery of her life.  That appears to be her "comfort zone".  However, she senses that zone to be threatened, to the point that she's even trying to tempt you with intimacy that she previously had forbidden for years.  The reality is that all too soon she will revert to her prior patterns, once her life is lulled back into the zone she prefers.

The question is whether you will accept this temporary pullback in her push-pull dance?  It's not a functional or healthy dance but it works for her.  What about you?  Will you choose to fall back into prior patterns you know will simply prolong your misery?  Or make a real choice to ponder the overview, all the factors, as though you were on the outside looking in, pondering from an objective rather than subjective perspective.

Setting aside whether anything happens with GF#1, you were already here on peer support with your GF#3 dilemmas.  That's the biggest issue to resolve.  Once that is done, the rest should resolve themselves in time.  (Perhaps while you're addressing your own issues in self-reflection and therapy too.)

Yes, it seems a dilemma, pulled from all sides.  But have you pondered these questions...

• If your story were being described here on the board by another member, what advice, counsel or perspective would you offer that member?
• You're looking right now at a mass of choices.  You're like a deer in the headlights, frozen with indecision.  Where do you want to be in 5 years?  In 10 years?  What are the first steps - admittedly tough ones - you need to decide to move forward and not sideways?

The first steps on a better path are difficult, like unblocking a log jam, but quickly they'll get easier and less daunting over time.

[SaltyDawg]

• If your story were being described here on the board by another member, what advice, counsel or perspective would you offer that member?
• You're looking right now at a mass of choices.  You're like a deer in the headlights, frozen with indecision.  Where do you want to be in 5 years?  In 10 years?  What are the first steps - admittedly tough ones - you need to decide to move forward and not sideways?

These are excellent questions to ponder whilst making out your list of pros and cons for each of the 3 situational choices you have identified.

Take care with self care.

SD

[2020]

Firstly, I want to express my gratitude to you all for the huge amount of time and advice you are giving to me. This is what makes this little space on the internet so valuable. We are all strangers, having never met in person, yet we share a lot in common.

I stayed at the current partner’s home last night and the evening was not as chaotic as it has been in the past. Nothing intimate of course. At best we are like siblings who don’t really get on. I am back home with my son’s now.

SaltyDawg, you wrote so much and I appreciate it. I might miss a few of your points, but briefly, my son is 22, a bit like a 8 or 12 year old trapped in a grown up body. He is very capable, with certain things. We lost everything in a flood in March 2022. He turned a $3000 government Back To Home disaster grant, into $33 000 in a year and a bit by ‘gambling’ with the Forex currency thing. He saved our  and bought us a home, so he isn’t THAT incapable. He can’t put a bin out or wash up, but he can do that.

He can survive by himself for days. I just run around after him like his personal assistant, which is the stuff I need to look at about myself. I read about others here who end up repeating the same relationships again. I think we need to figure out our own shortcomings. We get ourselves in this mess.

So I have spoken to girlfriend #1 today. She wanted to talk about the pace this is moving at and where it might be heading. She thinks we should slow this down a bit before we  it up. I agree. She was saying that we need to spend time with each other to see if we actually want to move into a relationship together, and we need to discuss how that would operate. She asked if I might find her boring because I would not have the constant drama. She said she likes regular sex and would that worry me if I am used to waiting months for it? We need to see if we are compatible. She has been very clear that we might have disagreements or fights, but we cannot abuse each other. There has to be honesty and respect.

There is a lot to like here. I spoke to my sister and she thinks I should consider these recent developments. She knows both women, and she knows how difficult this relationship has been for years. She did say I need to be honest with #1, which I have been, and that she would wait for me to detatch from #3. She thinks she would actually wait a year because she suspects this might have been on her mind for a lot longer than the sudden connection. Maybe she has a point.

I really want to answer you all, but I am so short of time, all of the time. I am reading and digesting everything.

It is the 51st birthday of #3 tomorrow so I will spend the day with her and take her to lunch or dinner. It has a new solemness to our meetings. It makes me feel sad. Sad for her, for what could have been.

I need to think about me. That is the advice I’d give another member here. Sad as it is, I can’t be doing this in 5 or 10 years time. I might be dead by then. Today it is looking like I am going to have to end my current relationship. I don’t know how I will do that just now, but I think if that were taken care of, the rest might fall into place, as has been suggested. I will be looking for a therapist ASAP.

Thank you all again for guiding me. You are great people with kind hearts. If you ever need a Character Reference, perhaps to give to the pwBPD in your life, message me! 

[Notwendy]

I think the consensus is to deal with the relationship with GF#3 and take care of your needs. Once this is done, you would be available to consider another relationship. GF#1 made a good point about going slowly and getting to know each other better but to do this properly and to be emotionally available, you need to take care of yourself and resolve the relationship with GF#3.

The other contingency is that if any woman is to be committed to you, this also includes your son. It seems to me that your son could do well if he were in a group home at some point. It might even be good for him to have his own "adult" space. They would also have rules such as cleaning up after oneself- which your son might be motivated to do in a peer setting. But he would be living close to you and be a part of your life and require extra attention from you. Financially, you will be making arrangements to assist him. Anyone who is in a relationship with you needs to also be accepting of this priority for you.

I think your sister has a point- if she still has feelings for you after all this time, then a little more time to make this right ( if it is going to happen) isn't an issue.

But that is for later. First is to take care of yourself and resolve the current relationship.

[SaltyDawg]

2020,

   You're welcome.  I will continue to reflect back your observation from an outside perspective so you can see your words in a different light...

I stayed at the current partner’s home last night and the evening was not as chaotic as it has been in the past. Nothing intimate of course. At best we are like siblings who don’t really get on. I am back home with my son’s now.

It is interesting that she offered physical intimacy on her invite, yet when you arrived it did not happen - was this your choice (after she initiated) or hers (through omission of her trying)?

It is curious you also describe the relationship as though you are brother and sister who really cannot get along, was it just an uneasy feeling, or did something happen?


my son is 22, a bit like a 8 or 12 year old trapped in a grown up body. He is very capable, with certain things. We lost everything in a flood in March 2022. He turned a $3000 government Back To Home disaster grant, into $33 000 in a year and a bit by ‘gambling’ with the Forex currency thing. He saved our  and bought us a home, so he isn’t THAT incapable. He can’t put a bin out or wash up, but he can do that.

He can survive by himself for days. I just run around after him like his personal assistant, which is the stuff I need to look at about myself.

Let's focus on your son for a few moments - from what you describe, he is 'special needs,' and is on the spectrum that needs some help and supervision.  I am in agreement with NotWendy, a group home type setting would be ideal for your son, as he will have autonomy, yet be supervised as an adult - this is something for you to consider as I think you are 35 years older than he is as you mentioned your age to be 57, sooner or later you will have to find an arrangement like this as you won't be around forever.

I also agree with NotWendy, that your son will be part of the 'package deal' for #1.  How that looks like will need to be worked out.  A group home would be ideal as a 200 km weekend visit would be 'doable'.  The alternative is to maintain a place to live for him, nearby, within 15-20 minutes or less, and you could visit him several times per week.  Another alternative is to have him as a lodger; however, then you are dealing with a lack of personal space for both him, and yourself and whomever you have a romantic relationship with.  This needs to be considered for your future plans.


I read about others here who end up repeating the same relationships again. I think we need to figure out our own shortcomings. We get ourselves in this mess.

I'm on my 2nd BPD relationship with my current and first wife - I jumped out of the fire into the frying pan with my uBPD/uOCPD wife.  My first BPD relationship was a rebound that found me on the Internet (I wasn't looking, I was on a fan chat server for a TV show in the 1990's as the www was brand new at the time).  She was a uBPD/uNPD/+(exgf) and made regional headlines a year and half later that showcased her mental illnesses - front page news of the largest newspaper in the 4th largest state.

Regrettably I will validate your opinion that if we do not identify what is wrong, 'our own shortcomings' with us, we are destined to repeat ourselves.


So I have spoken to girlfriend #1 today. She wanted to talk about the pace this is moving at and where it might be heading. She thinks we should slow this down a bit before we  it up. I agree. She was saying that we need to spend time with each other to see if we actually want to move into a relationship together, and we need to discuss how that would operate. She asked if I might find her boring because I would not have the constant drama. She said she likes regular sex and would that worry me if I am used to waiting months for it? We need to see if we are compatible. She has been very clear that we might have disagreements or fights, but we cannot abuse each other. There has to be honesty and respect.

Everything I put in bold are green flags...   

Slowing down is excellent especially considering how fast you guys connected, consider shifting your decision to a month or two, don't make it too long as that may lead to procrastinating in resolving relationship #3.

Before spending time with #1, in order to avoid the 'monkey branch' stigma, make sure that the emotional component relationship #3 has been resolved enough even though the physical component already has with a minimum of physical separation where you are no longer in #3's physical presence.  How to create space with #3 will require special planning, as no one likes to be 'dumped' especially a borderline who fears abandonment - once you are committed in going this direction, we can talk more about this in a follow-up conversation even though I made a suggestion below.

'Boring' is good.  I personally long for it, and enjoy it when I have it.  I  hate the drama, as it seems like one crisis leads to another and many of them overlap.  I attend many meetings as a peer, and I do interact with many who are in crisis, and with others I can deal effectively with their drama of crisis, and to me it feels like a worn, but well fitting glove since I have grown so accustomed to it.  It is exceptionally insightful that #1 mentioned this - I would hazard a guess that she herself has experienced this - you may want to probe into having an in-depth conversation with #1 on this fully explore that rabbit hole as this level of awareness is very unusual (in a good way), especially to those who have previously experienced it - she has the potential to help you with your 'drama withdrawal'.

Being sexually compatible - what are your thoughts on this?  Here is a not-so-fun fact, about 1/3 of men and 2/3 of women can care less if they have sex on a regular basis.  It sounds like she likes having regular sex - ask her how frequently she likes it.  If it is several times a day, this might be a , if it is 2-5 times a week, that is considered a healthy amount.  I know you are sex-starved right now, so your perception will be skewed; however, when you were being love bombed by #3 or #2 in the early stages of those relationships, what was your sexual appetite like? 

Disagreements & Fights - It takes incredibly good insight to talk about this upfront.  Everyone will have a disagreement - it is how you handle those disagreements and how they are resolved which is important.  Compromise is good, taking turns on who decides is good - it cannot be one-sided, nor can it involve any kind of abuse (yelling, psychological, physical, and/or verbal) and it must be respectful towards the other.

Based on what you have just shared, I see nothing to be concerned with, with the only possible exception on how much sex she wants vs what you want; however, due to the sensitive nature this has not been discussed yet.


There is a lot to like here. I spoke to my sister and she thinks I should consider these recent developments. She knows both women, and she knows how difficult this relationship has been for years. She did say I need to be honest with #1, which I have been, and that she would wait for me to detach from #3. She thinks she would actually wait a year because she suspects this might have been on her mind for a lot longer than the sudden connection. Maybe she has a point.

Thank you for sharing your sister's advice.  From what you have described, your sister 'has your back' - listen to her and put the most weight on her opinion as it sounds like a good one.  I normally don't suggest this; however, noting that you do not have a current therapist, use your sister as your confidante (therapist), as she knows you better than anyone else on this topic.   


It is the 51st birthday of #3 tomorrow so I will spend the day with her and take her to lunch or dinner. It has a new solemness to our meetings. It makes me feel sad. Sad for her, for what could have been.

If you think this will be the last time you will take her out, and you are going to end your current relationship with her, if it is not too far away, consider taking her to the place you and her had a meal together the first time you met - this will symbolize the irony of full circle of the relationship where it is ending where it started [that went nowhere].  I did this with my exgf who was uBPD/uNPD/+ after the 2nd time she tried to cheat on me.


I need to think about me. That is the advice I’d give another member here. Sad as it is, I can’t be doing this in 5 or 10 years time. I might be dead by then. Today it is looking like I am going to have to end my current relationship. I don’t know how I will do that just now, but I think if that were taken care of, the rest might [will likely] fall into place, as has been suggested. I will be looking for a therapist ASAP.

Yes, you do need to think about yourself, especially as #3 is not doing that for you, I will give you the same advice you would give another member and tell you to think about yourself - what is best for 2020 and his son?

Regarding a therapist, until you establish a good relationship with the therapist you choose, I would recommend using your sister's advice, as a confidante in this matter.  She is a woman and can advise you from a female perspective, she knows both of the women you are involved with, and her perspective on this issues with both, and she will be best person that is available to you to look after your specific needs in this situation.

I am going to wrap up this post with a reminder, especially in times of stress, I will continue to suggest to do self-care whatever that might look like for you.

Take care.

SD

[livednlearned]

He can survive by himself for days. I just run around after him like his personal assistant, which is the stuff I need to look at about myself.

Does he ask you to do these things?

How does taking care of him make you feel?

My son is also ASD and has some of the same range of abilities you describe.

Is it possible that prioritizing your relationship with him might be, in one sense, protecting you from worse abuse with current GF?

You are living separately and that is not insignificant given the level of abuse happening in your current relationship. 

[2020]

Thanks for the replies once again.

I drove out to see the current partner last night. I won’t go into too much detail. I lasted about an hour out there before she was throwing a box of chocolates I bought her, at me, as I beat a hasty retreat.

Spoke to girlfriend #1 later on the phone. Very honest conversation actually. She said that clearly I am still emotionally tangled up in a relationship with my current partner. She would love to take things further with me and see what happens. But while I am still with #3, then I am not really available. This made me feel sad, and I told her so. She said she will not tell me what I should do; that is for me to decide. She was quite nice about it, but really, I totally understand. She said obviously she has dreams we are compatible and live happily ever after. At the moment though, we are getting ahead of ourselves. She suggested perhaps a psychologist would help me.

So today I rang my doctor for a referal. I have found someone close by who I think I might get along with. He has experience with bpd I see.

Today it is the birthday of #3. She has sent many text messages how she never wants to see me ever again, how her family hate me, how she is now in hospital having her arm sewn up again. I don’t know whether it is true or not, but birthday or not, I don’t want to be around her drunken abuse again.

I asked girlfriend #1 how long have I got? She said it might take some time for me to clear up my current relationship, and she’s sorry but she can’t get involved if I am with someone else. She said she would love it if this was sorted this weekend, but she has waited 37 years, so a little longer would be fine!

The ball is in my court. Girlfriend #1 is taking a risk I think. She is going to really have to trust me, and I don’t want to violate that trust. The first thing is, I will need to end the relationship I have. After that, I will perhaps be able to look at something with #1. That is the plan. I will have to figure out drawing this ‘gothic drama’ to a closure.

[SaltyDawg]

2020,

I am going to make some very blunt observations, please read this entirely before taking any action.

I drove out to see the current partner last night. I won’t go into too much detail. I lasted about an hour out there before she was throwing a box of chocolates I bought her, at me, as I beat a hasty retreat.

Well, do you want to stay with your current partner if she throws things at you?


Spoke to girlfriend #1 later on the phone. Very honest conversation actually. She said that clearly I am still emotionally tangled up in a relationship with my current partner. She would love to take things further with me and see what happens. But while I am still with #3, then I am not really available. This made me feel sad, and I told her so. She said she will not tell me what I should do; that is for me to decide. She was quite nice about it, but really, I totally understand. She said obviously she has dreams we are compatible and live happily ever after. At the moment though, we are getting ahead of ourselves. She suggested perhaps a psychologist would help me.

Sounds like #1 has some good boundaries now, even if they were violated a few days ago.  I agree a psychologist would be helpful.


So today I rang my doctor for a referal. I have found someone close by who I think I might get along with. He has experience with bpd I see.

Can you share with #1 that you have done this?  Also, when are you going to see him - use this time to sort your feelings out before committing to #1 until after you meet the doctor.  I would suggest not to give #1 an answer until after you see your doctor, even if you have made a decision before that, as you don't want to come off as being too impulsive yourself.


Today it is the birthday of #3. She has sent many text messages how she never wants to see me ever again, how her family hate me, how she is now in hospital having her arm sewn up again. I don’t know whether it is true or not, but birthday or not, I don’t want to be around her drunken abuse again.

Well, right now you are looking a text from your current partner where she has literally broken up with you by text.  You say you don't want to be around her drunken abuse again - you have the text staring you in the face right now that can enable you to move on with those words of she never wants to see you ever again, if you choose to do so, this is up to you.


I asked girlfriend #1 how long have I got? She said it might take some time for me to clear up my current relationship, and she’s sorry but she can’t get involved if I am with someone else. She said she would love it if this was sorted this weekend, but she has waited 37 years, so a little longer would be fine!

Having it sorted by this weekend is a bit of a considering the weekend started a few minutes ago for you.  Definitely take a break to clear your head before moving on to number 1, at least wait until you have had the visit with the psychologist.  I am also going to encourage you to keep your sister in the loop too so she can give you some good advice as well since she knows you better than any of us do.


The ball is in my court. Girlfriend #1 is taking a risk I think. She is going to really have to trust me, and I don’t want to violate that trust. The first thing is, I will need to end the relationship I have. After that, I will perhaps be able to look at something with #1. That is the plan. I will have to figure out drawing this ‘gothic drama’ to a closure.

Mate, I am going to be very blunt with you right now, your current partner just dumped you by text - there is nothing to figure out, #3 has unintentionally and unwittingly given you this gift - this is the perfect opportunity to accept you being dumped by her so you draw this 'gothic drama' to a very quick closure - I know it is exceptionally impulsive (however you have been thinking about this for days, so it is not that impulsive); however, there is no really good time to do this, and this is a good an opportunity as it gets as #3 has made the threat, call #3 her bluff while she is still in hospital, so if she does something stupid there, the hospital staff will take care of her.

If she is currently in hospital right now, this is the time to text a simple "I accept your offer to never see you again, I agree with you that this relationship is no longer sustainable, take care" or something along those lines.

  However, if you have important papers (passport, bank records, etc.) at #3's place you may want to reconsider texting her now until you recover all of the important stuff - however, if all of that stuff is at your son's house, the ball is in your court, choose wisely.

... the ball is in your court - how are you going to play it?

[2020]

SaltyDawg, I appreciate your honesty! Yes, she did dump me. She dumps me every week! I have been told for years that we are not ‘in relationship’. I guess I take no notice of it anymore. I have not seen her on her birthday. She has been sending very rude messages and I can see no point driving there to be her punchbag.

Next week, maybe Wednesday or Thursday, I will meet up with #1. I am looking forward to spending time with her. The interesting thing about the appearance of #1 is that it shon a light on the futility of my current difficult relationship.

So I am thinking, I can’t really lose here. I clearly, sad as it is (and it is), need to stop this abuse. We fight constantly and it has become worse over time. I have been putting up with it for a very long time. I could have ended it ages ago; there were plently of silent treatments for weeks or months. I am in a slightly unusual situation. I have a woman interested in me and I am not totally single. I really wish I was! What opportunities have past me by?

Tonight I feel hopeful. I am not as confused as I was earlier in this unfolding event. If something works out with #1, that would be very romantic and I may even have some happiness. If it doesn’t work out, I am still better off. I will be single and free.

It is a decent virtue to be kind and giving, but we mustn’t be selling ourselves short, ever. I am looking forward to recovery.

[Cat Familiar]

I’ll echo SD. She broke up with you. What part of you wants to even consider a reconciliation? That’s the part you need to speak with and listen to with clarity. I’m talking about the part of you who is willing to put up with abuse. What does that part want? What keeps that part from moving on? How is it that you’ve given that part more weight than other parts of you who want to be loved?  And I’d agree with SD that you need to pursue therapy before you  up your relationship with your first girlfriend.

[2020]

Cat, as a little boy I watched my father abuse my mother. He called her names, put her down, told her she was stupid, made fun of her. I have a memory of being perhaps three or four years old. They are fighting. My mother is crying, my dad is angry, and I am running back and forth between the two saying, “don’t cry”.

I would watch my dad do things, put a new plug on a toaster, whatever. And he would say, “who’s the greatest”? And I would say “you are Daddy”! I myself, was never good enough. He raised the bar really high. I am a perfectionist and I have it pretty bad. I trained as an illustrator and graphic designer before computers. My work is incredibly detailed and very accurate. There is no room for error!

I think these things have made me who I am. My father is perhaps a narcissist. He could be autistic too? I was beaten up by him frequently as a child. He smashed everything I owned once and that day the beating was so extreme I thought I was going to die.

So here I am as an adult, 57 years old. I have had two long term relationships in which may have been modelled on my parents. I have been involved with people who behave like my father. I have confused abuse with love. If only I try harder, maybe they will love me? That could be what is holding me in the abuse, as well as feeling sorry for these people.

This is going to be really difficult to turn around.

[Cat Familiar]

You’re well on your way. You’ve identified the root cause of your willingness to tolerate abuse. 

Yes, with the tools you currently have, it will be difficult to turn this around.

However, you don’t have the toolset that a skilled therapist has. (Definitely get some good recommendations. There must be online reviews in your country for therapists.) In doing therapy, you will learn tools and strategies that will help you advocate for yourself, learn ways to exit abuse, and essentially repair your relationship with your self and learn to value and love yourself.

[ForeverDad]

I’ll echo SD. She broke up with you. What part of you wants to even consider a reconciliation?

Or even continuing being the Whipping Boy?  Do you know what is?  Look it up.  Whether it is a historical fact or not doesn't matter, it's a teaching tool for you to visualize that one person is acting out and the other person is getting punished.  How in the world is that anything other than dysfunctional?

Hint:  All you need to say is, "Fine, I agree with you, we are Over. You live your life, I'll live mine.  Good bye."  Then cut all ties.  Delete her email links, her phone number, everything.

If you try to wean yourself away slowly, GF#3 will surely work her way back into your life, continue your misery and make it even harder to call it quits.

And yes, psychologist is definitely needed here.  Not so much to help you decide what to do but to keep you moving forward in the decisions to which you need to stick.

Remember The Bridge
Remember The Backyard Black Hole

[SaltyDawg]

2020,

   It sounds like you have a lot of good stuff here, I will make a few observations again...

Yes, she did dump me. She dumps me every week! I have been told for years that we are not ‘in relationship’. I guess I take no notice of it anymore.

It has been so routine, it seems you don't even notice it anymore.  Take #3's word on this, show #1 the text that you are not in a 'relationship'.  I will 2nd the 'whipping boy' statement that FD made on this one.  You keep going back, only to be abused.


I have not seen her on her birthday. She has been sending very rude messages and I can see no point driving there to be her punchbag.

I have used almost the same exact words with my pwBPD - I will not be her 'punching bag'. 


Next week, maybe Wednesday or Thursday, I will meet up with #1. I am looking forward to spending time with her. The interesting thing about the appearance of #1 is that it shone a light on the futility of my current difficult relationship.

Sometimes, one doesn't realized they are being mistreated so badly, until someone comes along and treats them much better - you have had a rare opportunity to experience this - please learn from it and use wise mind in order to take the correct action for yourself - I think you are there.


So I am thinking, I can’t really lose here. I clearly, sad as it is (and it is), need to stop this abuse. We fight constantly and it has become worse over time. I have been putting up with it for a very long time. I could have ended it ages ago; there were plently of silent treatments for weeks or months. I am in a slightly unusual situation. I have a woman interested in me and I am not totally single. I really wish I was! What opportunities have past me by?

I am in agreement with you, you really have nothing to lose here, and a lot to gain.  If you do this, it will have a very good change of breaking the cycle of abuse you have been in for decades.  Give yourself permission to do this, for your own good.

Regarding your past opportunities that have passed you by - don't look backwards with regret, you have a golden opportunity, right now - don't let this opportunity pass you by.  If I were in your shoes I will take full advantage of this situation.  Mate, you are so 'worth it'!


Tonight I feel hopeful. I am not as confused as I was earlier in this unfolding event. If something works out with #1, that would be very romantic and I may even have some happiness. If it doesn’t work out, I am still better off. I will be single and free.

I agree fully with you on this, I am validating everything you just said.  You have a lot more than most here to be very hopeful.


It is a decent virtue to be kind and giving, but we mustn’t be selling ourselves short, ever. I am looking forward to recovery.

It is a decent virtue to be kind and giving; however, if there is little to no reciprocity you are being taken advantage of and you are definitely selling yourself short - what can you do so you are no longer being taken advantage of?


as a little boy I watched my father abuse my mother. He called her names, put her down, told her she was stupid, made fun of her. I have a memory of being perhaps three or four years old. They are fighting. My mother is crying, my dad is angry, and I am running back and forth between the two saying, “don’t cry”.

Wow, mate, this is an excellent self-awareness of your FOO (family of origin) issues, you were a parentified child at 3/4 years of age.  I know it is tempting to use #1 as your therapist; however, I would advise against this, even though she has her own 'baggage' that might be similar to yours - who doesn't?

Instead definitely use the psychologist for this, and on occasion, when the psych is not available, perhaps your sister too (only if she is open to this), especially if she shared the same experience as you did when you grew up together with her.


I would watch my dad do things, put a new plug on a toaster, whatever. And he would say, “who’s the greatest”? And I would say “you are Daddy”! I myself, was never good enough. He raised the bar really high. I am a perfectionist and I have it pretty bad. I trained as an illustrator and graphic designer before computers. My work is incredibly detailed and very accurate. There is no room for error!

Same as the previous paragraph, use the psych to do a deep dive into this.  If asked by #1, share a brief and shallow version of this, I know there will be a strong pull to use #1 as your therapist.  Let #1, lead the conversation, and share what she wants to know, but don't volunteer more information, as 'oversharing' can be overwhelming in this situation.


I think these things have made me who I am. My father is perhaps a narcissist. He could be autistic too? I was beaten up by him frequently as a child. He smashed everything I owned once and that day the beating was so extreme I thought I was going to die.

Since this has physical abuse in it, talk exclusively with the psych on this.  And if #1 asks (don't volunteer this information), answer using BIFF (briefly as possible).  You know about some of #1's abuse - it is good to inform, but not dwell on this information with one another - it is easy to overshare - let her lead the conversation on how much she wants to know.


So here I am as an adult, 57 years old. I have had two long term relationships in which may have been modelled on my parents. I have been involved with people who behave like my father. I have confused abuse with love. If only I try harder, maybe they will love me? That could be what is holding me in the abuse, as well as feeling sorry for these people.

I am very impressed with your self-awareness, talk to the psych on this as well.  We love what we learned as a child, if it is dysfunctional, our relationships are dysfunctional too.  I've noticed this with my D17's relationship too, both her and her bf are both parentified codependents with uBPD mothers.


This is going to be really difficult to turn around.

Mate, I am going to share something with you - you are years ahead of many on this board, as you are self-aware - this is the hardest part, and you have already done this part in this post.  The next step is getting treatment, identifying the areas you need to change are now easy in comparison (it's still hard, but not 'really difficult').

Make a detailed list for your psych, concentrate on how healthy a relationship with #1 might be, and also mention your FOO issues.  #1 sounds like she is fully aware her own issues, and has already been through a lot of therapy herself and will be much better than #2 & #3, although not perfect - everyone has baggage, she does, you do - as long as each of you can accept that baggage - 'warts and all', you should be okay, and have a comparatively healthy relationship. 

At least initially, since you are limited to 12 sessions per year, you may want to consider paying for a few extra sessions out of pocket, it will be money well spent at the beginning during this transition period.  You can always come back here and ask for advice too.

I do look forward to you updating us.

All you need to say is, "Fine, I agree with you, we are Over. You live your life, I'll live mine.  Good bye."  Then cut all ties.  Delete her email links, her phone number, everything.

If you try to wean yourself away slowly, GF#3 will surely work her way back into your life, continue your misery and make it even harder to call it quits.

And yes, psychologist is definitely needed here.  Not so much to help you decide what to do but to keep you moving forward in the decisions to which you need to stick.

I am in full agreement with FD - once you cut ties, don't look back, and keep moving forward in a healthy manner for you, your son, and possibly #1 too.

Have your sister support you too, and have her hold you accountable to make sure you stay on track for a much more enjoyable and abuse free future in your recovery from abusive relationships.

Even though it seems really hard right now, you need to take these first steps, and each subsequent step will be easier to take.

There are very few people here that I envy - you are one of them - you have a wonderful opportunity to escape with less emotional damage than most here; however, do take precautions to maximize your chances of success by starting and maintaining individual therapy until all of the issues you just mentioned are satisfactorily addressed, and ask your sister to hold you accountable for the new you, 2020.

Take care with self-care.

SD

[ForeverDad]

I believe you need some more 'reality checks' since I get the sense your inclination is to fade away in the threatened "ended" relationship with GF#3.  While that inclination is understandable, that's how we "co-dependent" sort of people want to be nice, that won't work well with people exhibiting BPD push-pull patterns.

If you stop appeasing and start pulling away, she's very likely to stop pushing you away and try to pull you back, even guilt you.  You've been an abused crutch for her, she may hate you but still want you to be inside her comfort zone.

The fact is that you just need to cut her loose.  Picture yourself out there in a boat trolling for something nice.  Instead you hooked a Great White shark.  Cut bait.  Don't quibble.  There's a mermaid out there somewhere.

Of those here who ended their BPD relationships, almost no one will tell you they had a nice 'closure' discussion or still keep in contact over the years.  If you want closure, you'll have to Gift it to yourself.  You won't get closure from GF#3, you'll get the opposite, guilting, blaming, etc.  If you think you can occasionally reach out in future months and years and say Hi, just to be nice and friendly, forget it.  It may go against your inner personality but it is for the best.

Those of us who had children with our disordered exes can't End all contact due to the shared children... but you can since you don't have shared children.

[SaltyDawg]

2020,

   I agree 100%+ with FD on what he said.  Please gift yourself the best gift you can ever give yourself - I know it seems daunting right now, you are likely scared of the unknown dynamics, it can only get better. 

    Take care.

SD

[2020]

You have all given me much to think about. I am listening to you and it is sobering. I am hearing some very clear ‘run’ or leave messages which I know is rarely suggested where I post usually. I never ever thought I would be ending my relationship, but that is what has to be done.

I have been on bpdfamily for five years and tried to manage the situation and during that time I have seen and experienced things only soldiers or paramedics see. It has taken it’s toll. I am feeling a mixture of sadness and relief. Had this person from my past not reconnected with me, I would still be dodging bullets in the trenches. I would be a fool not to seize the day.

Perhaps the thing with Girlfriend #1 won’t last, or maybe it might? I will be in a much better situation than I am now. I won’t be sitting in an abusive relationship.

It is worth thinking about, for me (and maybe you)… did I really need to wait for someone to come along and release me? I could have or should have done this ages ago. It is scarey how our minds work!

I have a big week ahead. Going to doctor monday to get psychologist referral. Going to get sexual health check up on the suggestion of Girlfriend #1. She has done this already this week. She said she hates being sensible, but needs to protect herself (despite the other night  ). And then I am going to drive up and see her.

Girlfriend #3 has gone missing, probably been rescued by her sister. I am going to have to figure out ending this properly and definitely. There cannot be any blurred edges at all. I appreciate the cold hard reality, ForeverDad.

I will return with update soon, no doubt. Thank you all for your valuable input.

[SaltyDawg]

You have all given me much to think about. I am listening to you and it is sobering. I am hearing some very clear ‘run’ or leave messages which I know is rarely suggested where I post usually. I never ever thought I would be ending my relationship, but that is what has to be done.

This is the 'conflicted' board where 'run' messages are often heard, unlike the 'bettering' board.  'run' messages generally do not occur on the 'bettering' board.  Unless there are children involved, or some other exceptional extenuating circumstance, 'run' is the recommended course of action, especially if there are little to no shared assets like a home mortgage, and so forth.

You must do what is best for 2020, and your son who benefits from your extended care.


I have been on bpdfamily for five years and tried to manage the situation and during that time I have seen and experienced things only soldiers or paramedics see. It has taken it’s toll. I am feeling a mixture of sadness and relief. Had this person from my past not reconnected with me, I would still be dodging bullets in the trenches. I would be a fool not to seize the day.

I can personally attest that it is easier to face the machine gun of a terrorist than it was to deal with the terror my wife gave me with six suicide gestures/attempts and six separate acts of domestic violence on top of countless instances of verbal and psychological abuses, until I took back my life from it being held hostage by my wife with her unreasonable demands and manipulations.  What you are describing it is part of the 'trauma bond' that you are experiencing with #3 - a talking point with the psych that should be explored in depth.

When you end the relationship with #3, for good, you will be grieving as it will be a loss of that relationship.  You already have likely experienced the loss of what the 'angel that she used to be,' it will extend to the physical loss of what you have grown to accept, the abusive relationship you have been in.  You may have experienced a similar loss when you were tossed out on your jack jones with #2.

From what you have shared, other than a $4000 caravan, you share no other finances with #3, as you have lost everything in a flood a few years ago.


Perhaps the thing with Girlfriend #1 won’t last, or maybe it might? I will be in a much better situation than I am now. I won’t be sitting in an abusive relationship.

From what you have described, both you and #1 have a strong probability that you are both co-dependents.  It could be absolutely wonderful, or you could be jumping from one bad situation to another - this is where your therapist (that you will soon have a referral to) and her therapist comes in.  They will help guide you to a healthier relationship dynamic for both of you.  As you are both self-aware of these issues, it is a matter of avoiding the pitfalls of such a relationship, and both of you will have good tools to do this.  I am 99% sure that this will be a better relationship than #3 and #2.


It is worth thinking about, for me (and maybe you)… did I really need to wait for someone to come along and release me? I could have or should have done this ages ago. It is scarey how our minds work!

I agree with you.  It took me several years of therapy to come to that conclusion which shifted the power balance for me - I have posted about this to others, lmk if you want a link to those posts, they are public. 

There is a big difference, is that I have two minor children living with us, and I am actively maneuvering the situation to reverse the damage that has been done, and is being done, and base on how strong willed my wife is, I do have a specific plan on when I will be leaving, I am also setting up for a 2nd career with one of my volunteer job as a trial run, and then post graduate school.

I have also taken steps to reduce financial loss, and the threat of false allegations she has made against me as well.  In my own way, I am making the best of a bad situation.

I have also learned how to setup firm and healthy boundaries, so my wife is being managed to the point where she no longer terrorizes me and there will be consequences for her bad behaviors.


I have a big week ahead. Going to doctor monday to get psychologist referral. Going to get sexual health check up on the suggestion of Girlfriend #1. She has done this already this week. She said she hates being sensible, but needs to protect herself (despite the other night  ). And then I am going to drive up and see her.

I agree that this should be done, especially since #3 most likely has already cheated on you - perhaps be glad that she has chosen to punish you with no sex, as you may not have had the opportunity to receive the *gift* that keeps on giving (a STD from #3's affair partner).  Both of you need to be sensible with this matter; however, I do urge you to take is slowly with sex, as that can so easily cloud our judgements, even though it feels so good, and right.


Girlfriend #3 has gone missing, probably been rescued by her sister. I am going to have to figure out ending this properly and definitely. There cannot be any blurred edges at all. I appreciate the cold hard reality, ForeverDad.

I agree, please consider doing a safety assessment, one of the best ones is free at https://www.mosaicmethod.com/ especially if you think #3 can become violent and/or suicidal - the chocolates being thrown at you qualifies her in this category, for 'female offender'.  It is free, and has just over 30 topics it will ask questions on.

Also, have a safety plan in place, check with the the psych or individual therapist once you see him/her.  https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/safety-first-dv-1.pdf especially if you don't know how she will handle the situation.

If you have any specifics on how to do this, the more planning the better, feel free to ask specific questions on this.

I look forward to your update.  Good luck.  Take care.

SD

[Notwendy]

Perhaps the thing with Girlfriend #1 won’t last, or maybe it might? I will be in a much better situation than I am now. I won’t be sitting in an abusive relationship.

From what you have described, both you and #1 have a strong probability that you are both co-dependents.  It could be absolutely wonderful, or you could be jumping from one bad situation to another - this is where your therapist (that you will soon have a referral to) and her therapist comes in.  They will help guide you to a healthier relationship dynamic for both of you.  As you are both self-aware of these issues, it is a matter of avoiding the pitfalls of such a relationship, and both of you will have good tools to do this.  I am 99% sure that this will be a better relationship than #3 and #2.


Our families of origin influence who we are romantically attracted to and who is attracted to us. In some ways, we "match" our partners emotionally-not necessarily with the same disorder- but a familar pattern and also with our boundaries. You have made the connection between the abusive situation you saw between your parents- with GF#3- not in the exact same way they did but in the pattern of tolerating it.

Codependency isn't the same as  BPD but I have read that pwBPD can have co-dependent traits. Many issues can overlap with other ones and also can stand alone and be on a spectrum. People are complicated. Codependent behaviors can exist on their own and also be learned behaviors from childhood-from growing up in a disordered family.

A difference to me is- whether or not the person is insightful and willing to work with a therapist and/or 12 step group- and takes ownership of what they need to work on. Just from the posts I see that GF#1 also has a history of abuse- but she also has been willing to work on it. You have told her about your situation and also are going to work with a therapist. So while one can point out possible issues- this seems to me to be a positive point too.

[seekingtheway]

Gosh, reading this through from start to finish has been a journey in itself. What a turn of events that has led you to really look at all the aspects of your life, and whether you are able to make changes that you need to a more free and happy existence.

I just wanted to add my support in terms of moving yourself away from what is clearly extremely abusive and hurtful behaviour. The advice I got on here was very useful in terms of encouraging me to find the space within myself to know what I needed to do... and I think that's always very useful advice. It would be very hard to hear any thoughts in your own head while you are stuck in a dynamic that challenging and where you are so low down the list of priorities.

I hope that the new woman on the scene can be supportive to you, knowing that this is a very complex emotional situation that you need to disentangle yourself from, and space, time and lots of professional support will be your friends to do that in a healthy way.

I'm really happy that you're allowing yourself to imagine a new way of being.

[2020]

I have an update.

I drove up to see Girlfriend #1 and stayed for three nights. We have met up twice now. Unlike a brand new relationship, we get along just like we used to 35 years ago, almost as if there was never that gap in time. In some respects we have not changed much at all. We talk non-stop about what we have done with our lives, we tell stories, we catch up on what happened to people. It is interesting that our individual opinions about current or recent global or societal events are aligned too.

There was a lot of intimacy. I can report the sex drought is clearly over  . She suggested that we are both probably starved which explains things. We are getting to know each other again. It feels nice to be loved I have to say. I keep telling her I am old and broken but she won’t have a bar of it.

She practices remedial massage and did some work on my shoulder for an hour or so. Felt good to be cared for. She took me out for coffee and bought me a delicious meal. Introduced me to two of her friends whom I liked very much.

It all seems like a dream. I was heading toward the grave not that long ago, but now I am resting and recovering. I am getting little to no BPD feelings about her. If she had not connected with me, I would probably never have been able to break out of my rut and would have died in it. This is a gift.

Having expressed this, I do feel very sad however. Whilst away, Girlfriend #3 messaged me. First she was telling me she isn’t a bad person, then she accused me of slandering her. I did not reply. Then on Wednesday she sent me a photograph of her wrist. All the scars of her previous suicide attempts, plus now a massive amount of bruising. Her arm looks purple. I am unsure what she has done to herself. She wrote “unfortunately, I will never be rid of you completely.”  I told her I can’t help her with this and urged her to seek professional help. She kept repeating “so, are we over?” I told her I was away and would speak to her when I got back.

Yesterday I messaged her and said I had returned. I suggested we talk. She asked me when was I going to dump her via text. I said I was not in the business of dumping people. I asked how she was going and she said she was broken. Blamed it all on my son. I got caught in one of those JADE situations but managed to tell her that I our relationship had deteriorated to a point where it is damaging us. My health has never been worse. I said I cannot be in a relationship with this abuse in it. I expressed I needed to focus on myself and needed to end it.

She apologised for her behaviour, saying she never wanted it to end up like this. I got the expected “have a nice life”, “I wish you and your family health and happiness”, and “all my love xxx”… I have not messaged her since yesterday.

I feel really very sad about it all. It makes me feel ill thinking about it. And I do miss her in all honesty. I am in limbo, in a grey area between two relationships. Girlfriend #1 is very kind to me, yet I feel a sense of betrayal with #3. I wish I could have had the good sense to end my abusive relationship years ago and been single for a while. It is a bit messy, all of this. When I think of all the drinking, smashing things, physical violence, mental torture and such, I feel leaving #3 is for the best. Yet I still feel very upset and sick in the stomach. I will miss her. It’s a long way to ‘happily ever after’ yet.

[SaltyDawg]

2020,

   Thank you for coming back and updating us.

   I am really really happy for you, that you were able to get out of the abusive #3 relationship, and the questions you are asking yourself, and the observations you are making of yourself seem really insightful, and it would seem that you are very surprised by your recent actions and behaviors.

   I will continue to reflect, and ask a few questions designed to make you think.  This time it will seem like I am playing 'devil's advocate' with you -  it is not my intention to upset you; however, it is my intention to shine a light on what is happening.


I drove up to see Girlfriend #1 and stayed for three nights. We have met up twice now. Unlike a brand new relationship, we get along just like we used to 35 years ago, almost as if there was never that gap in time. In some respects we have not changed much at all. We talk non-stop about what we have done with our lives, we tell stories, we catch up on what happened to people. It is interesting that our individual opinions about current or recent global or societal events are aligned too.

   You have 35 years to catch up on, everything is 'new and exciting' again.  Enjoy it, especially as you have similar opinions to each other.  I am trying not to poo poo on this; however, please be sure to take turns on this, my uBPDw also reflected to me what I wanted to hear during the courtship phase.  Let #1 lead for a while on her opinions and point of view, without giving her hints on what your opinion is.  If she ask you a specific question, ask her to express herself first on the topic, and compare your opinion to hers.  If she is asking you first all of the time, and insists you give your opinion first, and then she is agreeing with you, this might be a .  Let her lead with her opinions for a while.


There was a lot of intimacy. I can report the sex drought is clearly over  . She suggested that we are both probably starved which explains things. We are getting to know each other again. It feels nice to be loved I have to say. I keep telling her I am old and broken but she won’t have a bar of it.

This seems a bit fast; and the chemicals released in each of you will intensify your emotional bonding really fast - if this is healthy, it is great; however, if there are any flags, they can easily be missed right now as your mind is currently in a state of 'bliss' and will miss most warning signs except the most obvious ones.


She practices remedial massage and did some work on my shoulder for an hour or so. Felt good to be cared for. She took me out for coffee and bought me a delicious meal. Introduced me to two of her friends whom I liked very much.

She has done all of this for you, which is really nice.  However, what have you done for her?  A relationship should be 50/50 or pretty close to it.  Make sure you can give back to her, and this is not a one-way street.  If she gives you some really expensive gifts (a few hundred dollars or more), this might be a flag.


It all seems like a dream. I was heading toward the grave not that long ago, but now I am resting and recovering. I am getting little to no BPD feelings about her. If she had not connected with me, I would probably never have been able to break out of my rut and would have died in it. This is a gift.

It is a gift, and yes you have been able to break out of your rut.  I too was able to break out of a much worse relationship to be in my present one - I can say without a doubt, even though it too is with a pwBPD I am in a much better place than I was before - the warning signs that I could recognize in my current relationship didn't appear until 2 years 5 months into the relationship.


Having expressed this, I do feel very sad however. Whilst away, Girlfriend #3 messaged me. First she was telling me she isn’t a bad person, then she accused me of slandering her. I did not reply. Then on Wednesday she sent me a photograph of her wrist. All the scars of her previous suicide attempts, plus now a massive amount of bruising. Her arm looks purple. I am unsure what she has done to herself. She wrote “unfortunately, I will never be rid of you completely.”  I told her I can’t help her with this and urged her to seek professional help. She kept repeating “so, are we over?” I told her I was away and would speak to her when I got back.

I agree with what you did on this.  Also tell yourself:  I did not cause this, I cannot control this, and I cannot cure this.


Yesterday I messaged her and said I had returned. I suggested we talk. She asked me when was I going to dump her via text. I said I was not in the business of dumping people. I asked how she was going and she said she was broken. Blamed it all on my son. I got caught in one of those JADE situations but managed to tell her that I our relationship had deteriorated to a point where it is damaging us. My health has never been worse. I said I cannot be in a relationship with this abuse in it. I expressed I needed to focus on myself and needed to end it.

She apologised for her behaviour, saying she never wanted it to end up like this. I got the expected “have a nice life”, “I wish you and your family health and happiness”, and “all my love xxx”… I have not messaged her since yesterday.

I think you handled the final meeting quite well.  Do not let-on you have another woman in your life as that will enrage them, at least for a month, no need to volunteer this information, and if on confronted, avoid answering the question if you cannot tell a white lie.  Now is a good time to go NC (no-contact) as that will also minimize her asking about your personal life.  Now you must prepare for her to try and re-enter your life with h00vering, or a recycle attempt, probably a much more aggressive one than she has done before.  In my situation, it was months later; however, it could be hours, it could be days, it could be weeks, or even months down the road - and this will pull on your heart strings - you need to be 100% firm that you do not want to go back with her (in a kind way).


I feel really very sad about it all. It makes me feel ill thinking about it. And I do miss her in all honesty. I am in limbo, in a grey area between two relationships. Girlfriend #1 is very kind to me, yet I feel a sense of betrayal with #3.

This is 100% a natural and expected feeling, while this feeling will weaken with time, it will remain with you always.  Please address this in therapy with the psychologist that you are going to see.


I wish I could have had the good sense to end my abusive relationship years ago and been single for a while. It is a bit messy, all of this. When I think of all the drinking, smashing things, physical violence, mental torture and such, I feel leaving #3 is for the best.

Hindsight is nearly always 20/20 [pun intended ].  You are in a much better place now, even if you have mixed and conflicted feelings.  You have left the fire, and are now in the comparatively cool frying pan that has just been placed on the stove - just make sure the heat in the pan is not too hot and is something that you both can agree upon.


Yet I still feel very upset and sick in the stomach. I will miss her. It’s a long way to ‘happily ever after’ yet.

You will continue to miss her, the wound is fresh right now, and as time marches on, it will eventually become a distant memory that will leave a permanent scar on your soul.

Right now you are feeling a lot of FOG - Fear that #3 is going to hurt herself, and possibly kill herself, so you feel Obligated to stay with #3, to take care of her, and you are feeling Guilty that you are abandoning #3 - when combined this is making you feel very upset and sick to the stomach.  Please use 'wise mind' to work through this, as you know, logical mind that this is the right thing to do, even though your emotional mind you are racked with these feelings - this is something that you should work on with your therapist.

Keep in mind your 'happily ever after' wasn't even on your mind a month ago, now it is, you can see it, and it is now close enough that it is within your grasp, yet, you don't want to jinx yourself by thinking it is too far away to grasp.  It will take time to adjust to the new life of and for 2020.

Don't forget about your son, after a month, let him know (if you haven't already).  Ask your sister, to keep tabs on you to make sure this goes in an emotionally healthy direction, as it sounds like she has your back.  Do follow up with therapy, at least for the transition period, it will be well worth the investment in time and any payments you might make.

I personally think you have done an excellent job, your life is turning around for the better - enjoy the ride, wherever it may take you.

Take care.

SD

P.S. We are here for you if things go badly for #3, or even if there are issues with #1.  Please check-in from time to time, as just about everyone here wants to hear a success story, and yours is shaping up to be one.

[ForeverDad]

Now is a good time to go NC (no-contact) as that will also minimize her asking about your personal life.  Now you must prepare for her to try and re-enter your life with h00vering, or a recycle attempt, probably a much more aggressive one than she has done before.  In my situation, it was months later; however, it could be hours, it could be days, it could be weeks, or even months down the road - and this will pull on your heart strings - you need to be 100% firm that you do not want to go back with her (in a kind way).

Those of us with shared children can't go NC since there will always be parenting issues, weddings, grandchildren, etc.  You however can go NC.  In fact, that is is usually for the best.  Whether it is you or the ex, breaking NC brings back all the issues of the past that were unresolvable and still are unresolvable.

Sadly, NC is best.  Your ex will not Gift you any closure.  If you allow her back into your life the Blaming, Blame Shifting and Guilting will resume.  She's an adult, you've already pointed her to professional therapy, the relationship is 100% over, stick with that practical answer like a dog with a bone.  Because she almost surely will seek you out again.

Which is why I suggested, once it is ended, that you stop all contact.  Nothing good will come of letting her back into your life.

This is what I meant when I said to give yourself Time to Recover.  It became a negative part of your life and you can't recover all at once.  Ending the relationship is hopefully a single Event but Recovery is a Process.