I know she's cheating, how do I confront her?

[DieseLx12]

TL;DR
How do you confront your undiagnosed partner wBPD about their cheating - in a healthy manner?
*You just recently realized your partner has BPD - and are not practiced in validation SET etc.*

I have just recently come to suspect/realize that my partner of 14 years has borderline personality disorder.  I have always know there was dysfunction, and it increased over time, but it wasn't until recently that it escalated into a whole new level.  My partner has become verbally abusive.

I have actively tried to get her to seek out therapy for years.  For the past six years I have tried the tact of couples therapy.  She has always made the excuse that it was I that needed the therapy.  I actually spent many years in my twenties with a psychologist working on personal and family issues.  Unfortunately that gave me the false impression that I didn't need any more work... I have spent the last three months seeking out a therapist and FINALLY found someone taking new clients.  My initial appointment is this Thursday - and I am glad to have a professional to use for reference going forward while dealing with all of this.

A few months ago I discovered that she has recently, on her own - and in secret - sought out a therapist and started therapy.  I was hurt that she hadn't told me initially (which I kept to myself), but elated that she had taken a step towards improving herself. 

Hopefully that is what is happening at therapy, but who knows... she recently relayed that her therapist has pointed out all my "Narcissitic tendencies".  I do not argue when she rages, I am overly conciliatory and apologetic.  I do not try to control her, though she regularly tries to exert control over me.  I realized long ago that arguing enraged her worse, that being calm and reassuring in tone of voice was more effective at defusing the bomb.  If the monster she sometimes thinks I am [a person who doesn't exist] is being described to the therapist, who knows how helpful any of it is???

During this same time I notice that her online presence [Instagram] has taken on a very ... sexual nature.  I am also aware that we have NO sex life, and haven't for a really long time.  The person I see interacting with the digital world, a giddy sexual being on the prowl, is not the angry raging lashing out/dejected disappointed person I see at home. 

She has also developed some new "friends" online that she is in ever increasing contact with.  She now spends the majority of her day, from first thing in the morning until about 1 a.m. on her phone, texting/messaging.

It becomes increasing obvious to me via the love poems being written on Instagram, and the body language while texting, the fervent checking of the phone... she is having an emotional affair with someone.  Eventually she is so brazen that she texts sitting beside me... I have occasionally seen the text messages intro flash on her screen as she sits next to me.  Two different women writing things of a personal, intimate, sexual nature... I try to stop myself from noticing her screen - it's really painful to watch someone actively disengage from you in real time while engaging with someone else.

The timeline of when she possibly starts cheating and the devolving of our relationship [it was bad, but not actively terrible] into active verbal and emotional abuse seem to overlap.  Her treatment of me has become quite volatile, and as I have been learning what I can of Borderline Personality Disorder I am scared to confront her about her cheating.  I plan on talking about this with my soon to be psychologist, but I wanted to see what others who have dealt with this thought.

At this point I feel dishonest for keeping this knowledge from her... this is probably the ridiculous co-dependence that has formed talking, but I still feel like I'm lying and keeping things from her.  Technically, I am.  I use private browsing to log onto this site.  I have stashed in my closet the books on BPD I have ordered and read, along with the notebook I started to write down key points in.

It has been tearing me apart emotionally to KNOW, for going on three months, and feel paralyzed on what to do about it.  Her cheating is unacceptable, but I don't want to end our relationship. I am hurt by her behavior, but I understand the need for human connection.  I am hurt that I am right here full of love for her, and she can't see it.  But I understand that she literally can't see it... and that is what ultimately drove her to cheat.  I want to work through our problems towards a healthier future.  I want to get myself to a healthier emotional space so that I can work on bettering my end of communications armed with new knowledge.  But I don't know where to start.


TL;DR
How do you confront your undiagnosed partner wBPD about their cheating - in a healthy manner?
*You just recently realized your partner has BPD - and are not practiced in validation SET etc.*
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[kells76]

Hi DieseLx12 and to the group. The "kind of hidden but kind of not" cheating sounds so painful and not at all what you wanted for your relationship. I'm sorry this is all hitting you at once.

Couple of questions and then a couple of brief thoughts on your situation --

-do you two have any kids (shared or not)?

-was the start of verbal abuse what led you to suspecting BPD? Or was there something else?

...

It's good to hear you're headed back to therapy. I totally get what you're saying about thinking you have your stuff resolved, then a whole new issue rears up. It happens -- it's normal as we grow and mature, to have new stuff come up, or to get a suddenly new perspective on old stuff. What's good is that you're open to going back to T and working on it.

While there are a lot of moving parts in your situation, I want to focus on this for a second:

A few months ago I discovered that she has recently, on her own - and in secret - sought out a therapist and started therapy.  I was hurt that she hadn't told me initially (which I kept to myself), but elated that she had taken a step towards improving herself. 

Hopefully that is what is happening at therapy, but who knows... she recently relayed that her therapist has pointed out all my "Narcissitic tendencies". I do not argue when she rages, I am overly conciliatory and apologetic.  I do not try to control her, though she regularly tries to exert control over me.  I realized long ago that arguing enraged her worse, that being calm and reassuring in tone of voice was more effective at defusing the bomb.  If the monster she sometimes thinks I am [a person who doesn't exist] is being described to the therapist, who knows how helpful any of it is???

You're not alone in having a pwBPD in your life who "tells you what her therapist said about you". This is really common here. I want to point you to a couple threads where we discuss this -- an excerpt from the first thread (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=356167.0) is here:

a lot of times, pwBPD tell us "this is what the therapist said", or "this is what my counselor told me". I'd suggest to anyone who hears that to take whatever follows with a grain of salt. We weren't in the room and we have no idea what got said, and as pwBPD struggle with shame, they may "adjust" what was said when they tell others, to make it less shameful and less like they're the problem.

So, when I read this:

From September 2022 to December she lived alone in a one bedroom apartment while her husband continued to live in the family home.
She started another relationship with a guy who was suffering with a number of mental health issues.  Her explanation was that her counselor told her to explore other people to see if her relationship with her husband was what she should stay with, or if she should move on (her explanation).

and this:

She tells me she cries most all day, can't sleep and that her psychiatrist diagnosed her with adjustment disorder. ...
She texted me yesterday that her psychiatrist recommended to her that she needed to get more sleep and prescribed sleeping pills.  Today she said that sleeping was the only advise her psychiatrist has given her.

I'm wondering if you and I are on the same page that she can say that the counselor/psych said whatever, but that might not really be what was said? Especially that first statement about "I recommend that you cheat on your H and date other people, to see who you like better" (essentially) -- yeah, I'd suspect that the C may have said something like "You may need to make some decisions about if you are committed to this relationship or if you are going to choose to move on" -- and that got... filtered, to justify her shameful actions to you.

and an excerpt from the second thread (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=356179.0) is here:

On the topic of violence, early on in the crisis, the few first draining talks we had had elements that sounded straight out of a guidebook, and later if not immediately she'd be transparent about her therapist warning her how usually men would react badly to this and that (rejection/attraction to other women/etc...).

During at least the first 6 month, her mantra that it would be better if I despised her seemed directed by her fear of me being too attracted by her (I still am...).

Many pwBPD struggle with intense shame. It is difficult for them to hear anything that even tiptoes near the idea of "maybe there's something going on with you... maybe it isn't everyone else causing problems". pwBPD struggle with a lack of sense of self (as you've seen) plus harmfully intense emotions, including self loathing. One coping mechanism that is often seen is blame/projection, or doing whatever it takes to not be the problem.

So I would maybe not take at face value "she was totally transparent about the T saying that men are the problem". She may be "adjusting" what was actually said in the session, to decrease her own feelings of shame, and to have an authority to point to so she can feel like "see, my T says that it's all men who are the problem, not me at all!"

Unless we are personally present in the session or hear it directly from the therapist, I would suggest that when our pwBPD tells us "My therapist told me...", we take it with a grain of salt.

...

As you start figuring out how you want to move forward, it might be helpful pause before taking her words of "what the therapist told her" to heart, and know that what your partner says to you about intense, emotional, possibly shameful stuff, may be filtered through the lenses of BPD. So, when you hear something like "my therapist swears to me that you're a demon from hell, you're the source of all my problems, you have three heads, and you have every personality disorder known, plus the unknown ones", is probably not what the T actually said.

...

The other thought I'm having is that it'll be important for you to know what your own personal values are, and to decide what choices you are willing to make in order to live out your values. One of the things we talk about here is how we can't change someone else, only ourselves.

It would make sense to want to have a serious talk with your partner about her infidelity, and to want that talk to be her "rock bottom" where she turns around her behavior and recommits to your relationship. That would be ideal.

She may or may not value fidelity as much as, or the same way, that you do, and she might define it differently than you. So if you guys end up having some kind of discussion and can get back on the same page, that's great, but if not, the choice is in your hands about which values are core values for you, and which values you are OK with compromising/modifying/replacing in service of the relationship.

I know there's so much more to talk about in your post, so I hope that's a starting place that can ignite some discussion and maybe help you get some clarity.

-kells76

[DieseLx12]

Thank you so much for the engagement

We do not have children. 

Early on in our relationship, I noticed ... irregularities in her emotional state.  I chalked it up to a rough childhood (alcoholic absentee father who virtually disappears in teen years, toxic enabling mother). 
My mother had rage issues, and I recognized the volatile anger as incompatable with healthy child rearing, which is unfortunate because the functioning portion of her would be a wonderful mother.  I grew up with that mother (when she was good she was very good, and when she was bad she was horrid), and didn't want that for any potential future children.  I have given many reasons over the years, self reflective style, and she being in her late 30's and I in my mid 40's are fairly clear of the child years. 

I have long suspected some emotional disordered thinking.  I couldn't tell you when I first stumbled upon BPD whilst looking up behaviors, but it was many years ago.  I at best thought she had some "tendancies".  Denial?  Less acute behavior?  Who knows, it's in the past now.

There were traumatic events (sexual harassment escalating to assault by a brother-in-law in a work setting) approximately six years ago, I'm guessing it was the stress that tipped the scales for her disorder, and things worsened noticeably.  She also has previous sexual trauma, a rape at 13. 

Looking back, she did her first major split then.  She abruptly moves out, a week later while talking I mention a potential first tattoo idea - her reaction is that it's proof I've moved on and don't love her anymore.  The complete lack of logic starts cropping up regularly in arguments that form "out of the blue".  The pattern of hearing a completely different conversation than the one I was present for starts being a regular thing.  Outlandish accusations, and major projection become more and more the norm.
It was six years ago I began to suspect borderline personality disorder ... but her depression and anxiety were the leading symptoms.  She has been withdrawn, while constantly blaming me for not being there for her (whilst pushing me away at every turn). 

I knew something was wrong, and gently suggesting a therapist (for depression and anxiety, I knew better than to name what I thought it was) got no traction.  She was quite resistant, and projected it back onto me, I of course am the source of our relationship, and therefore her woes, I need to fix me.  Couples counseling was my next aim.  Primarily to work on her (our) communication skills, as communication was a broken down mess by this point.  Secondarily, maybe we can ease her into individual therapy.

Therapy / emotional affair time frame kicked things into high gear.  The devolution has been steep and rapid.  I have lost 10-15 pounds due to stress.  The verbal aggression escalated rapidly into verbal abuse.  The verbal abuse rarely takes a break now.  She speaks to me with disdain at the drop of a hat.  I cherish the calm times (in an uncomfortably reminiscent manner to my childhood) 

Tomorrow morning is initial meeting with a new psychologist so here's to sorting out the swamp I've let myself sink into.  First on the docket is the infidelity and how to address it.

I know very well I can't change anyone but myself - but my portion of our relationship dynamic could work better...

[DieseLx12]

Had my initial appointment with a therapist, and she's a good fit so I'm feeling a little more hopeful with some support lined up.

As it was our first meeting, there was a lot to cover - we talked about ways to confront my partner over the emotional cheating.  I plan to address it with my partner later this week (she is sick at the moment, so not the best time).

Honestly, I'm scared at the unknown reaction, but realize I can't control what happens regardless so I really need to just "bite the bullet" and forge ahead.  The potential for her to just up and leave (and cut me off) terrifies me - and I realize that if that is what's going to happen, I really have no control over it.  Unpredictability has become my life, but it doesn't make it any more comfortable.  However, inertia isn't any more comfortable.

Also, thank you for the perspective (and links) on pwBPD potentially twisting what their therapist may or may not have said.  Curiously, I know to question her version of events normally, but somehow didn't think to apply that to her experiences with her therapist.

Here's to planning for the worst and hoping for the best

[EyesUp]

@DieseLx12

Sorry for what brings you to the forum. Your path here is remarkably similar to mine, and likely many others.

When I discovered my then-wife's online activity, I could not have predicted my response.  Like you, I was fearful of direct confrontation - I perceived that any direct approach would lead to conflict, and I simply was not ready to end the relationship.  If you had asked me before marriage or even a few years into marriage, "what happens if you discover that your wife is cheating?" I would have said that obviously the relationship would be over.  Breaking a marital vow is just that. Full stop. "But, what if it's just an emotional affair?"  Even with lots of caveats, explanations, circumstantial rules and qualifications... I still would have said that the relationship would end.

However...  When it happened to me, I had no idea that the relationship had become a sort of trauma-bond, and that my response was almost entirely guided by FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt).

To answer your question, here's how I attempted to address the situation in a healthy way at the time..

First, my uBPDxw had changed her dress and was actively socializing with new people. She was more confident in her appearance, and it was almost like she was flaunting it with me.

This was during the pandemic, and I was home all the time with the kids. My ex was stir crazy and often leaving the house. My kids were working on a project on the family computer, and both my ex and the kids were lazy about logins - so the kids were often logged in to my ex's account.  One day while she was out, the kids asked if they could work on their computer project - I called my ex to ask for permission for the kids to use the shared computer - she said yes.  When the computer clicked on, I immediately saw her facebook messenger comms...  I scrolled for a bit, immediately felt like I had violated some trust (ironically), and then logged out of my ex's account to get into the kids' account.  And then I sat with what I learned about my wife. Like you, I did not immediately confront her.  Like you, I perceived what I learned to be an emotional affair.

I decided to learn as much as possible. I don't mind admitting that I began to actively spy. I knew when my wife asked me to take the kids for an afternoon, it was so she could make plans. I also knew that going along with the plans might enable me to get evidence, e.g., footage on the home security cams. Ultimately, it did.

I slowly broached the topic with my wife by acknowledging changes in a positive way, e.g., "I like what you're wearing" and "is it my imagination, or is there a new you on social media?" - she often responded well and seemed to appreciate the attention from me - and everyone else. I made some jokes, like when she'd say that she was going to the gym, I'd say "wait, who's Jim?" and of course she'd just laugh it off.

However, as I alluded, she did host a guy at the house while I was out with the kids.  It wasn't until I saw the kiss on the camera footage that I allowed myself to understand that it wasn't just an emotional affair.

With the footage, I mustered the confidence to ask her directly, if somewhat gently, "with all these changes, I wonder if there's something going on?" - which she consistently denied.  I have to say that the lies were sometimes the most painful thing. 

Eventually, I told her that I knew she was having an affair, and that I knew who it was. Like you, I wanted to do this gently and somehow protect her and give her some agency, so I actually complimented her - "clearly you have no problem attracting a younger man" (her AP was in his early 30s, she was late 40s).  She broke down and admitted it.  It had been going on far longer than realized, and had been physical far longer than I realized (my then-wife and I were still regularly intimate throughout her affair... yuck).  What happened next was right out of the N/BPD affair playbook... uBPDxw said:

- I can't believe I'm the bad guy
- It wasn't my idea - he wanted it
- It's not my fault - he provided a lot of validation that I don't get from you
- It's not like our marriage was all that great in the first place
- You're financially abusive
- Lots of people have affairs, it happens all the time
- Man up, get over it
etc.

My uBPDxw stated it wasn't an exit affair, didn't want the marriage to end, and agreed to try couples' therapy.  In our 3rd session, the therapist pressed a bit and when my then-wife threatened self-harm, the therapist called 911 and my wife was involuntarily taken by ambulance for observation and evaluation. 

The next therapist was utterly ineffective. This was actually the 4th therapist we'd tried during the course of the marriage.

Like you, I discovered this forum around the time I started to look for answers - and that's when I started to learn about BPD and B-Cluster disorders, which broadly aligned with so many of my uBPDxw's behaviors during our relationship.

Ultimately, we were divorced less than 2 years after I discovered the affair.  In the process, I did peek at my wife's social media again - and I learned that while many messages were deleted, there were some that indicated another affair had occurred with a colleague a few years earlier, which preceded her otherwise inexplicable need to urgently leave that job...

In summary, my cautious / avoidant / strategic / gentle approach to confrontation obviously did not save the relationship - but it did provide time to come to terms with it, to avoid an "extinction event" blowup, and to ultimately separate with 50-50 shared parenting time, etc.

Between the time I discovered the suspected and later confirmed affair and the time my uBPDxw moved out, my weight dropped from 200 to 160lbs.  At times, navigating what was happening (or coming to terms with what had already happened) felt like a fulltime job. It can be consuming, and it will certainly impact your ability to give proper attention to other areas of your life.

There are others who have lived with - or continue to live - with infidelity and other forms of emotional abuse.  Coming to terms with this is like many other responses to trauma.  I will say that for me, it turned out that "radical acceptance" didn't mean that I had to accept my wife's infidelity - actually, I needed to accept that divorce, which I was strongly opposed to, was actually an excellent solution. When I came to accept this, a lot of things fell into place.

I'm glad that you've quickly found a T and I encourage you to engage the widest possible support system - friends and family, other professionals - as you navigate your next steps.  It will take time to get comfortable with what to share and how to share it.

Please take time for self care, and try to do things that bring you joy - independently - even if you don't feel particularly joyful. I'm a cyclist and I found that solo hours on the bike provided time to think and focus without constant rumination or study on the internet, etc.  Whatever works for you - long walks, hikes, drives - do it. 

I'm sorry my story probably doesn't have exactly the solution you're looking for - but hopefully there's something useful in there.

Good luck - And please keep us posted.

[DieseLx12]

So I finally found a window where her mood was stabilized enough to broach the subject of the emotional affair.  She has been sleeping at her apartment (again) the past few nights and I figured the physical space and time to think on things before we actually talk would help.  Here's to hoping.

I told her I was aware of the affair, have been aware of it for going on two and a half months.  I stated that it was very obvious, and has been for a while.  I told her that we need to talk about this, but I wanted her to have some time to think on it, and we should talk later.  I don't want a reaction, I want a discussion.   I told her I still love her.

Her reaction was - cold.  She almost dismissed it, kind of denied it - and then obfuscated while defending and justifying her behavior.  Translation: it's my fault.  Can't say I'm overly surprised. 

She immediately responded to me about a specific singular "her". 
She's been regulating it.  Literally used the word regulate (seriously odd word choice).  "I've been regulating it." 
"When she tries to cross a line (or was it push a boundary?), I don't let her."  Something to that effect.
She reiterated that type point, that she was keeping it neutral.  WTF does that even mean?
She (my uPWBPD) partner never did use the woman's name ... even though in the past she has openly gushed to me about this woman BY NAME.

She went into how she waited forever for me to get therapy, and how I waited too late.  She started therapy recently, but her wait isn't the same as mine.  Now that she's doing therapy, and found some friends, one friend in particular has shown her the right way she should be treated.  She deserves to be treated better (than anyone else - that part she doesn't say out loud).

She dropped a few more specific personal cuts and jabs - and I steeled my nerves and did not take the bait.  I said we should wait to talk, and PLEASE READ if I wasn't sticking to it.

I let her get a few sentences out, and as she launched into reasons I am to blame (for the behavior she is but isn't doing !?) I gently reminded her that I stated I wanted to talk later.  She balked, justified her justifying - and tried at it again.  I again gently reminded her maybe it was better to have some time to sit on it, and that I didn't want a reaction, but a discussion... and she backed down.

A few empty minutes as she gathered up what she needed for the night/morning before I drove her to the apartment.

We drove in silence to her apartment.  As I dropped her off I told her that I didn't think she was being completely honest with me or herself, this woman is most definitely more than a friend - it's quite obvious.

She was a bit haughty in her reply.  She didn't double down and obfuscate, which was pretty much the gist of her initial response.  She coyly remarked that she never said this person wasn't more than a friend - and yes she does have feelings for them.  PLEASE READing cold, and somewhat smug as she said it.

So she admitted it once pressed again - and yet she still denied the depth of the level of involvement.  She again emphasized she was keeping it neutral.

I unfortunately know for a fact, that is complete and utter bullPLEASE READ.  I saw the first line of a text as it's notification flashed across her phone.  I saw what it said - and it was blatantly sexual in nature.
Lies aren't a thing I've ever had to deal with regarding her... not until recently - as far as I know.  Maybe there were always lies... I've been questioning everything these past few months.  More lies aren't helping.

I drove home.  I got rage like angry for a whopping handful of minutes - but my anger shield didn't last that long.  I sobbed for a bit... I'm just bloody hurt.  Hollowed out and empty.  I knew this was a likely scenario, but I really didn't want to believe it was going to play out like that.  I knew it probably was, but how do you prepare yourself to get gutted?  Don't have that skill set... 

We still need to actually talk. 
But I finally told her I knew there was another woman. 

So - the elephant in the room has been addressed.  I felt a great anxiety stress weight lifting in the moments after I said it to her.  I knew I would - just had to get the courage to "walk off a cliff".

I'll be back after we talk - which I am honestly PLEASE READing terrified of.  I'm so not looking forward to the hurt that likely awaits me ... but I've waiting too damned long already, and the hurt isn't going anywhere unless I do something about it. 

[ForeverDad]

Whether she would ever be diagnosed with BPD or something similar is a total unknown.  Most here have to conclude for themselves whether the behavior seen matches the dysfunctional extreme of various typical traits.

We all have personality traits, none of us are identical robots off an assembly line.  There is a normal rage, but the ones indicating dysfunction and unhealthiness are outside the normal ranges, to extremes and often erratic though predictably unpredictable.

That said, most people would have an immediate reaction to offer Denial, at least at first.  But few reasonably normal people would continue the Denial or Blame Shifting - as in "No, it's not me, it's you and your fault."

I guess a good question to ask yourself is whether or how much infidelity is an issue for you.  It seems you suspect a couple instances.  So this is not a one time instance.  In addition, she's already pulled away.  Is there even a meaningful relationship left?