Divorce First Step-Dissociative Amnesia

[boundriesrus]

Last night we had a couples therapy session, which has been ongoing for a few months now. Without going back and reliving some things from my previous posts, I finally was able to come forward and bring up a very painful event from 7-8 years ago, that ended up being her sexually assaulting me while we were trying to get pregnant at the time. The event happened so quickly and I physically removed her off of me while she was crying and screaming out of desperation to make a baby. I told her all this last night and that it had actually given me PTSD ( recent diagnosis a few months back now). She has had a history of (in very stressful events) of her having Dissociative Amnesia, specifically from her first marriage, which she has admitted to me multiple times throughout our relationship and I always encouraged her to see a specialist about that. She never saw it as an issue, until last night. Lots of tears were shed, both by her and me. She made an indication that she wanted to try and save the marriage, and that is when time was up for the session and we agreed to wait till next week before diving into that subject. The therapist did a great job at handling it, as I could tell she was terrified as to not knowing how her reaction was going to be. Essentially.... lots of silence as she was racking her brain trying to remember it. Also discussed with her, other behaviors of which were either met with silence or I thought I was doing the right thing because of an article I read in a magazine by making the first move type thing. But as I reminded her, this was going on for years with me saying no and to stop certain behaviors and she continued to do so, even when asking her one day, why do you continue to just grab my crotch without anything leading up to it, in hopes that I will jump on her to have sex. She replied back simply, "I hope one day that it will work" Even though I looked her in the eyes and said "Has it yet?...after YEARS? Her response "One day it might". She doesn't get it, seriously and last night was one of the saddest days of my life having to tell her this stuff. She has agreed not to try and touch me anymore, but still wants to "hang out" and watch movies together and co parent " of which I am fine with, until this morning the love bombing continued with her sending me "I love you messages" over text during her breaks and lots go heart gifs on my responses, doesn't matter what the response is...she "loves it". I did point out her "step ford wife" mode, of which was met with silence as well.

Honestly I was expecting a huge breakdown last night, and all that happened was that she seemed exhausted, tired, depressed, and sad. I do not blame her one bit, I do not think she is a bad person, but she has some major mental health issues, of which she needs to get addressed. I will be in the wings to support her, but at this point, only as a friend and co-parent, not as a spouse.

Mind you, she has not been diagnosed yet with BPD, but my guess would be High Functioning. I can't talk to her parents about this (her mom's head is filled with butterflies and cats) and her dad is selfishishly wrapped up in his new wife's vagina. Her brother doesn't speak anymore and most likely has AVPD. Her mother most likely has BPD as well given things her father said and having seen the condition of her house these days and her mental state. It would make sense.

Any advice on how best to proceed forward? Has anyone else witnessed this bad of a Dissociative state of mind from past traumatic events? I read some last night further on this, and most likely in these cases, if extreme dissociate amnesia moments like this, it is usually as a result of some form of sexual trauma as a child. Of Which I hope is not the case, as I really don't want her going down that rabbit hole if she doesn't have to.

[kells76]

That's a lot of weight to land on any relationship. It sounds like the CT session went as well as it could have, under the circumstances.

It's good that you two agreed to wait until next week to continue the "she wants to save the marriage" discussion. It might be worthwhile declining to talk about related topics until the next session, too. My thought is that this:

She has agreed not to try and touch me anymore, but still wants to "hang out" and watch movies together and co parent " of which I am fine with, until this morning the love bombing continued with her sending me "I love you messages" over text during her breaks and lots go heart gifs on my responses, doesn't matter what the response is...she "loves it". I did point out her "step ford wife" mode, of which was met with silence as well.

that is, the "pointing things out to her", might not be effective during this really tenuous time. If you are ready to end the relationship, then you won't be in a relational position for something like that from you to really get through to her. And if you are reconsidering, and are willing to try to save the relationship, then "pointing things out to her" may land as criticism or at minimum JADEing, also not effective for reconstruction.

Anyway, all that to say, you could give yourself permission not to respond to her. Pointing out that she's a Stepford wife is giving her engagement for her text bombing -- probably not your intention. If you do respond, maybe pause a beat, get into WiseMind, and consider something like "I'm open to talking about all these texts at our session next week".

Any advice on how best to proceed forward? Has anyone else witnessed this bad of a Dissociative state of mind from past traumatic events? I read some last night further on this, and most likely in these cases, if extreme dissociate amnesia moments like this, it is usually as a result of some form of sexual trauma as a child. Of Which I hope is not the case, as I really don't want her going down that rabbit hole if she doesn't have to.

One approach is to lean heavily on the therapist's lead.

Can you remind me if you want to save the relationship or if you are done? Does the T know your position?

Asking the T "What's the best way I can support Ms. boundariesrus right now" could help -- and again, if you have already decided to be done with the relationship, you could phrase it as "What's the best way I can support Ms. boundariesrus in her parenting/as a coparent right now".

No matter what, if there is unremembered abuse in her past, it's going to be her solo journey. Even "generally normal" persons (I use that broadly), when there's a hint or clue of unremembered abuse, don't jump in right away, saying "Wow, I'm so glad I got that clue, I'm really ready to fling that door open and see what's hiding back there!" Whether you stay together or not, patience on your end, letting go of feelings of "I have to participate in her healing/I have to convince her to get help", and taking the therapist's lead, seem like the way to go.

[Pensive1]

Here, I’m only going to address “Has anyone else witnessed this bad of a Dissociative state of mind from past traumatic events?”

Yes.

My ex-partner with BPD never displayed dissociative amnesia during the 25 years we were together. Three years ago, her son became addicted to meth and homeless, and she began to decompensate. Then an old lover of hers, from 40 years ago, began pursuing her, and she dumped me for him. It seems clear to me that he would meet the criteria for NPD. NPD-guy is married to someone else and is cheating on his wife.

My ex and this guy were lovers while in college, and then got together for a one night stand several years thereafter (at that point he was in another relationship and cheating on his then partner). Anyway – me ex has absolutely no memories of a sexual or romantic nature from when they were young. She has strong, clear, detailed memories of all their other interactions when young – going to concerts, hanging out with other friends, platonic interactions in her college dorm room, and all kinds of other stuff. But she has very selective dissociative amnesia for anything of a romantic or sexual nature with him. He showed her romantic letters she wrote to him, etc. and she has absolutely no memory of that. She has tried hard to remember, but none of it is accessible to her – at all. She apparently can remember sexual history with other high school or college-era lovers just fine.

When she got re-involved with him two and a half years ago, her BPD symptoms became far more severe, including with major dissociative episodes. One thing that didn’t help is that he told her he could serve as her therapist (even though he has absolutely no background in this area). I think playing the role of her “therapist” allowed him to gain more control over her and to f*ck with her head more.

There was a point about a year and a half ago when she decided to break up with him. A week thereafter, she told me that they were planning a vacation together, and I noted that she had told me she’d decided to end their relationship. When I said that to her, she was completely confused and shocked. She had no memory of her earlier decision and talking to me about it. But after considerable effort, she began to remember (albeit with disjointed, distant memories). But her memory block on their sexual/romantic history when young is absolute – nothing can be retrieved of that.

She did experience childhood sexual assault – that’s part of her trauma history. I think it’s quite possible or likely that her inability to remember any of her sexual/romantic history with NPD-guy is because something traumatic happened to her at his hands. Or at least, that something happened with him that has a major associated negative emotional charge (and she’s effectively protecting herself from distress by blocking it).

Totally separate from my ex – my best friend is a woman who, until a decade ago, had DID (dissociative identity disorder). DID has some symptomatic overlap with BPD, but it’s distinct. After a decade of therapy, she’s now fully integrated. I helped find a therapist for her, and she put in the work to heal. When she was fully DID she had separate alters (personalities) that didn’t share memory. The memory gaps were ubiquitous and very severe. Major dissociative amnesia. Again, the mental illness stemmed in large part from sexual abuse in childhood. I’ll also note something obvious – the fact that I have both these women in my life (i.e., my ex and my friend) says something about me – that I have a pattern of getting involved with women with severe mental health issues. I’m trying to alter that pattern of mine. It ultimately worked out in my friend's case, because she healed and now we're just good friends with a healthy friendship. But in my ex's case it worked out far less well - that breakup was shattering for me.

[ForeverDad]

When she got re-involved with him two and a half years ago... One thing that didn’t help is that he told her he could serve as her therapist (even though he has absolutely no background in this area). I think playing the role of her “therapist” allowed him to gain more control over her and to f*ck with her head more.

No responsible therapist would have a relationship with a patient, or be a therapist to an emotional partner.

A counselor is objectively and emotionally neutral.  Long ago I read "Get Me Out of Here".  I don't remember much about it except how it ended which emphasized why the role of a counselor was so helpful... it was not an emotional relationship.

This reminds me of a post I made recently.  This woman, after years of therapy, did recover from BPD but she emphasized her therapist always maintained a professional separation, no emotional strings.

Have you read Get Me Out of Here — My Recovery from Borderline Personality Disorder by Rachel Reiland?  It's a paperback account by someone recovered from BPD.  It was exceedingly tough for her, but it turned out well for her and her family.

What helped so much was that her therapist drew a strong line/boundary concerning their interactions.  Her therapist remained absolutely neutral emotionally, not even touching.  (That's why you bear so much of the brunt of her behaviors, because your spouse can't get past the past emotional baggage of the years of close relationship with you to really listen to you.)

That book ended on a high note.  Only when her therapy was completed, she got to hug her therapist for the very first and only time.

[boundriesrus]

Thank you Kells76 for the advice. always appreciated. I know it is particularly hard for me to "let go" of trying to help her (yes i have codependency issues, and am working on it) but I am more so doing this for my daughter, trying to ensure that she has a mommy that is not in the "hospital" or anything along those lines.

Stepford mode is still continuing via Text and in person in front of the child. When we are by ourselves she is very sullen looking and depressed. We still have conversations and she is respecting the don't touch rule. She does in bed try to get as close as possible without "breaking the boundary"

Therapist did say to put everything in a box and put it on the shelf until next session so we can continue the conversation.

The CT did go about as good as it could get sadly. I am not reconsidering  my decision as I really need to do better and break the co dpencednace cycle. My father has it married to my mother, his moth was also most likely BPD and my father and grandfather bent a knee to her on her every whim (waif) so yeah...i made the same mistake. shocking i know. time to course correct and hopefully set a better example for my daughter along the way.

 I seriously only truly was trying to help see if she could see what was going on. I am still a bit in denial about what is happening and feel awful inside that she has this horrid disorder. She is a good person at heart and one of the most caring individuals i have ever met. it's why i married her in the first place. but the way she acts sometimes is so polar opposite of what is going on and the worst thing of all is she cannot see it, or even remember it somedays. It really gets to me. Also i was just kinda on a roll during gate session selfishly looking for validation or another reason to help me go colder on her to make the decision to leave that much easier...but it didn't and I feel horrible to the fact of what is ultmatiely going to happen. Gotta jump now as I am finishing up my last bit of evidence gathering for the attorney tomorrow to for depositions against my former partners...who are...NPD and BPD and were embezzling from the company for years we co owned together and it's been 2 years since i left and haven't gotten a dime. So here is to retribution day tomorrow for them. Contradiction time!

[boundriesrus]

Pensive1

I am so sorry you had to go through that. That is a horrible situation and I greatly wonder if my wife went through something similar in regards to some early age sexual trauma. I hope that your ex wife ends up finding some peace. The NPD guy must really be in her head and gaslight the crap out of her. They have a way with that, as they LOVE BPD spouses. They feed off their enegery as we all know. My ex business partner did the same thing to his wife, who was BPD. Would use her as a weapon around the office in order for him the play the "good cop" sp people around the office would like him, then tell her they did something she didn't like and watch her TEAR into them like a rabid dog going after a baby bunny. It was horrible to watch.

I think this situation is only going to get sadder and sadder and sadder as it progresses. Again I am so sorry you had to experience that and I hope that you have been able to find some peace along the way as well. Thank you for sharing. I am still wrapping my mind around all this extreme trauma reactions and it just breaks my heart honestly. I am sitting here at my desk working on legal crap for tomorrow and am just in tears reading these stories and hoping that my wife is not fallen victim like these women have. Best of luck moving forward and keep your chin held high. Its tough to deal with this type of stuff and takes a strong person to recognize what is going on.