new directions and growth

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

you may feel them more acutely than the average person, though far from every person. that, in and of itself, is neither a good nor a bad thing; just a quality, just a difference between you and a given person like hair color. it can be overwhelming, for sure, but lots of things can be. lots of people need extra help, or a few re-tests, learning how to drive. youre learning now, to face them, to manage them, with help. in other words, as hard as this is, you dont have to feel at the mercy of it anymore.

side note: long story short, i had to take my driving test 5 times 

i have written about this aspect of my personality before. when I am happy, I smile and dance and feel like i sparkle. when I am sad, i am down on the couch watching reruns of my favourite tv shows and barely moving. my dad is like this. i remembered how, when business wasn`t going well for him, he would disappear into the basement and would barely talk to anyone. i would try to go cheer him up, hug him and bring food to him, but it was like he couldn`t see me. i think he was depressed. i think that i have these `moody` tendencies too. what this leads me to is that i need better coping mechanisms. or to ride the wave, because i always end up feeling better.

interestingly, my dad and my ex are the ones who noticed this about me (or at least brought it up) the most as well. they both would tell me how easy i am to read (ever since i can remember my dad would tell me `i can read you like a book` and i would think that isn`t too hard  ).

what if youd told him those things more often, and he respected you less?

a trap that so many of us fell into was remaining in these relationships long past their expiration date. when the dead end was there, and the writing was on the wall, many of us persisted, dysfunctionally, trying to change the other person.

it is a myth, that we "teach others how to treat us". we cant make others treat us how we want them to, and generally speaking , teaching other people how to behave is either for a profession, or the definition of codependency.

question: if you respected yourself more, how do you think the relationship would have played out?

i think that if i did start going down that path of keeping him in check over every little thing, there would be no end to it. when i did try to engage him in such conversations, they would be long and draining. i think it just wasn`t in his capacity to understand me or my perspective.

to answer your second question, i think about my best friend, who is a great model for me when it comes to healthy thinking and secure attachment. i would wonder how she`d handle the relationship. the thing is, she did find herself in a situation where a guy who showed some narcissistic tendencies cheated on her and wanted to remain friends. she tried that - for a month - and then cut contact with him. she met her current partner, who is kind and caring, not long after. all that to say, how do i think the relationship would have played out if i respected my more? i think i wouldn`t have tolerated this behaviour and i would have checked out sooner.

-----

i am feeling better today. i woke up with the song `thub thumping` playing in my head (i`m not making this up) which for anyone who isn`t familiar contains the lyrics `i get knocked down, but i get up again, you are never going to keep me down`. i am feeling inspired to change who i identify as. i think a lot of the conflict comes from the mismatch between the more low-level beliefs that i had for myself, and the person who i want to be. so, i say, i am someone who speaks up when someone else isn`t behaving kindly to me, and isn`t afraid to remove them from my life because i trust that better things are coming to me. i am someone who another person would want to apologize to and fight for to have in their lives, because i bring a lot of love and support and care that is unique to me. i don`t get down in the weeds over leaving behind people and beliefs that go against my value, and since that is the case with my ex, goodbye to him, i didn`t want that version of him in my life anyways, he annoyed the  out of me.

[tina7868]

you may feel them more acutely than the average person, though far from every person. that, in and of itself, is neither a good nor a bad thing; just a quality, just a difference between you and a given person like hair color. it can be overwhelming, for sure, but lots of things can be. lots of people need extra help, or a few re-tests, learning how to drive. youre learning now, to face them, to manage them, with help. in other words, as hard as this is, you dont have to feel at the mercy of it anymore.

side note: long story short, i had to take my driving test 5 times 

i have written about this aspect of my personality before. when I am happy, I smile and dance and feel like i sparkle. when I am sad, i am down on the couch watching reruns of my favourite tv shows and barely moving. my dad is like this. i remembered how, when business wasn`t going well for him, he would disappear into the basement and would barely talk to anyone. i would try to go cheer him up, hug him and bring food to him, but it was like he couldn`t see me. i think he was depressed. i think that i have these `moody` tendencies too. what this leads me to is that i need better coping mechanisms. or to ride the wave, because i always end up feeling better.

interestingly, my dad and my ex are the ones who noticed this about me (or at least brought it up) the most as well. they both would tell me how easy i am to read (ever since i can remember my dad would tell me `i can read you like a book` and i would think that isn`t too hard  ).

what if youd told him those things more often, and he respected you less?

a trap that so many of us fell into was remaining in these relationships long past their expiration date. when the dead end was there, and the writing was on the wall, many of us persisted, dysfunctionally, trying to change the other person.

it is a myth, that we "teach others how to treat us". we cant make others treat us how we want them to, and generally speaking , teaching other people how to behave is either for a profession, or the definition of codependency.

question: if you respected yourself more, how do you think the relationship would have played out?

i think that if i did start going down that path of keeping him in check over every little thing, there would be no end to it. when i did try to engage him in such conversations, they would be long and draining. i think it just wasn`t in his capacity to understand me or my perspective.

to answer your second question, i think about my best friend, who is a great model for me when it comes to healthy thinking and secure attachment. i would wonder how she`d handle the relationship. the thing is, she did find herself in a situation where a guy who showed some narcissistic tendencies cheated on her and wanted to remain friends. she tried that - for a month - and then cut contact with him. she met her current partner, who is kind and caring, not long after. all that to say, how do i think the relationship would have played out if i respected my more? i think i wouldn`t have tolerated this behaviour and i would have checked out sooner.

-----

i am feeling better today. i woke up with the song `thub thumping` playing in my head (i`m not making this up) which for anyone who isn`t familiar contains the lyrics `i get knocked down, but i get up again, you are never going to keep me down`. i am feeling inspired to change who i identify as. i think a lot of the conflict comes from the mismatch between the more low-level beliefs that i had for myself, and the person who i want to be. so, i say, i am someone who speaks up when someone else isn`t behaving kindly to me, and isn`t afraid to remove them from my life because i trust that better things are coming to me. i am someone who another person would want to apologize to and fight for to have in their lives, because i bring a lot of love and support and care that is unique to me. i don`t get down in the weeds over leaving behind people and beliefs that go against my value, and since that is the case with my ex, goodbye to him, i didn`t want that version of him in my life anyways, he annoyed the  out of me.

[seekingtheway]

Hi Tina, some interesting insights in this last post of yours - loving the way you rounded it up - it all sounds very strong and healthy.

Made me laugh about the thub thumping reference - I may have danced on a few tables in my time to that song. Was a staple song back in the day in the English pub scene! But it's an apt soundtrack for now. Good to keep the humour in all of this too.

i think that if i did start going down that path of keeping him in check over every little thing, there would be no end to it. when i did try to engage him in such conversations, they would be long and draining. i think it just wasn`t in his capacity to understand me or my perspective.

What you say here feels very spot-on - I think this is one of the major ways the balance of power gets tipped in the relationship, because there's just no way of being able to bring things up and resolve them. So you don't. Or if you do, it's so exhausting and upsetting and destabilises everything, you're no further ahead. Whereas in a healthy relationship, these conflict moments can actually be used to understand each other more and create better intimacy. It's a huge difference between a healthy relationship and a toxic one.

i am feeling inspired to change who i identify as. i think a lot of the conflict comes from the mismatch between the more low-level beliefs that i had for myself, and the person who i want to be. so, i say, i am someone who speaks up when someone else isn`t behaving kindly to me, and isn`t afraid to remove them from my life because i trust that better things are coming to me. i am someone who another person would want to apologize to and fight for to have in their lives, because i bring a lot of love and support and care that is unique to me. i don`t get down in the weeds over leaving behind people and beliefs that go against my value, and since that is the case with my ex, goodbye to him, i didn`t want that version of him in my life anyways, he annoyed the  Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post) out of me.

This could be a mic-drop moment?! I hope you do come back and read this in the months that follow... it's a great blueprint 

[tina7868]

Thanks for your reply, seekingtheway    . Lots of food for thought. You mentioning power balance makes me want to read more about manipulation, because behind the scenes I think I was under a weird spell at times.

I`ve been getting busy with work again, which is a nice change in pace. I`m also in the process of moving! A slightly bigger (and cheaper!) place opened up in my building, I went to see it and loved the flow! I got a deal on some of the furniture, so it`s less of a headache. I feel like this will be more of a place where I lay down my roots, at least for a while, and I look forward to decorating and creating a cozy space.

That being said, I do want take some time to check in with myself, as in the past I would go several days without feeling my feelings and then they would all `hit me` the moment I slowed down.

I had a great session with my therapist last week! I put a lot of effort into a big mindmap beforehand. To give an idea, I started with `decision-making Tina`, as in the version of me that decided to cut contact with my ex. I listed out my reasons, and also what I ultimately want: a better future. Now, that future may or may not include my ex, but the point was that as things were I was unhappy, and so I had a `take out the trash` mentality. Change what wasn`t working, let things settle, and give space for better.

Then, I listed out what tends to get in the way of this goal: OCD behaviours, anxiety, depression, and true love and care for my ex. What I learned was that compulsive behaviours are a (maladaptive) coping mechanism when it comes to avoiding facing difficult feelings. Compulsive behaviours can take on many forms. For me, I would engage in reassurance-seeking, i.e needing to hear that it wasn`t the end, that I would hear from him again. Of course, the cyclical nature of the relationship didn`t help - my brain is particularly attuned to patterns (there was probably also an addictive component to the whole thing).

It didn`t take much deep digging to identify what those hard truths that I was avoiding are: 1) the end of the relationship, 2) the fact that he loved and dated someone else (and wants to be with her), and 3) the unknown component of when if what will I hear from him again. We spoke about how I felt shameful that I still hadn`t gotten `over` it. I thought I had, but I was just convincing myself because I wanted to be there for him during his hospitalization, since, as I mentioned, I do genuinely care about him. My therapist was very kind about this point, saying that people process grief at their own pace. I mentioned that my ex would himself say that I should be over it by now, which contributed to my shame, and my T mentioned the concept of `correcting mechanism`. The idea is that, because he didn`t like the idea of hurting me (after all, most of us want to believe we are good people), he would `correct` my feelings in order to avoid feeling shame on his end over how he was treating me. She also pointed out that I tend to see things through `his lens`, which I had noticed too. It`s hard to get out of that mindset.

And so, I`m focusing on validating my feelings without resorting to coping mechanisms. And the truth is, I am sad! This relationship meant a lot to me! I don`t like that someone I loved has moved on. I don`t like the unknown in the future. It`s hard not to reason my way out of these feelings. I am taking walks in nature, listening to music, reading books about how life has both joy and sadness. I don`t have to like it - I can just accept it. I`m leaning into that. I have thoughts that I categorize as `what I dreamed of`, like waking up next to him, having coffee with him, holding his hand...those are hard to let go of too. They are painful in a different way, because I wanted them for so long, it feels like I am letting go of a part of me as well.

My friends have been showing up for me. They take the edge off by saying it`s okay to be sad, but also consider yourself free! And that it is a part of life. And that the way I loved him was unconditional and sweet and caring and I gained back my power of choice.

Someone asked me today if I am seeing anybody, and I replied `no, I`m healing`. They asked `from a breakup?`. I replied `I knew him for 8 years. We actually broke up a long time ago, but I was holding on. I stopped talking to him a few weeks back because I realized that it wasn`t good for me. `. I think that several years ago, I would not have imagined myself being so open and vulnerable and matter of fact in a casual way  . Here we are.

[jaded7]

I`ve been getting busy with work again, which is a nice change in pace. I`m also in the process of moving! A slightly bigger (and cheaper!) place opened up in my building, I went to see it and loved the flow! I got a deal on some of the furniture, so it`s less of a headache. I feel like this will be more of a place where I lay down my roots, at least for a while, and I look forward to decorating and creating a cozy space.

I had a great session with my therapist last week! I put a lot of effort into a big mindmap beforehand. To give an idea, I started with `decision-making Tina`, as in the version of me that decided to cut contact with my ex. I listed out my reasons, and also what I ultimately want: a better future. Now, that future may or may not include my ex, but the point was that as things were I was unhappy, and so I had a `take out the trash` mentality. Change what wasn`t working, let things settle, and give space for better.

Then, I listed out what tends to get in the way of this goal: OCD behaviours, anxiety, depression, and true love and care for my ex. What I learned was that compulsive behaviours are a (maladaptive) coping mechanism when it comes to avoiding facing difficult feelings. Compulsive behaviours can take on many forms. For me, I would engage in reassurance-seeking, i.e needing to hear that it wasn`t the end, that I would hear from him again. Of course, the cyclical nature of the relationship didn`t help - my brain is particularly attuned to patterns (there was probably also an addictive component to the whole thing).

It didn`t take much deep digging to identify what those hard truths that I was avoiding are: 1) the end of the relationship, 2) the fact that he loved and dated someone else (and wants to be with her), and 3) the unknown component of when if what will I hear from him again. We spoke about how I felt shameful that I still hadn`t gotten `over` it. I thought I had, but I was just convincing myself because I wanted to be there for him during his hospitalization, since, as I mentioned, I do genuinely care about him. My therapist was very kind about this point, saying that people process grief at their own pace. I mentioned that my ex would himself say that I should be over it by now, which contributed to my shame, and my T mentioned the concept of `correcting mechanism`. The idea is that, because he didn`t like the idea of hurting me (after all, most of us want to believe we are good people), he would `correct` my feelings in order to avoid feeling shame on his end over how he was treating me. She also pointed out that I tend to see things through `his lens`, which I had noticed too. It`s hard to get out of that mindset.

And so, I`m focusing on validating my feelings without resorting to coping mechanisms. And the truth is, I am sad! This relationship meant a lot to me! I don`t like that someone I loved has moved on. I don`t like the unknown in the future. It`s hard not to reason my way out of these feelings. I am taking walks in nature, listening to music, reading books about how life has both joy and sadness. I don`t have to like it - I can just accept it. I`m leaning into that. I have thoughts that I categorize as `what I dreamed of`, like waking up next to him, having coffee with him, holding his hand...those are hard to let go of too. They are painful in a different way, because I wanted them for so long, it feels like I am letting go of a part of me as well.

My friends have been showing up for me. They take the edge off by saying it`s okay to be sad, but also consider yourself free! And that it is a part of life. And that the way I loved him was unconditional and sweet and caring and I gained back my power of choice.

Someone asked me today if I am seeing anybody, and I replied `no, I`m healing`. They asked `from a breakup?`. I replied `I knew him for 8 years. We actually broke up a long time ago, but I was holding on. I stopped talking to him a few weeks back because I realized that it wasn`t good for me. `. I think that several years ago, I would not have imagined myself being so open and vulnerable and matter of fact in a casual way  . Here we are.

Tina I'm so glad to see you working on this so well in therapy. I like how you describe the way you loved him- unconditional and sweet. That is your heart, the real you.

I think we do need to let go of a part of ourselves too. The part we gave to them- physically, emotionally, even spiritually. This can feel like a real heavy loss, and that a part of us is 'missing'. That part is probably very much tied to the younger selves of us, that needed love and connection. Perhaps we didn't get that when we were growing up. Perhaps we (in my case) allowed ourselves to be really vulnerable and open, believing in they love they seemed to give us. Believing they saw us, in whole, and loved us.

[jaded7]

Writing out the previous reply, I had a memory that relates and I'll share here.

About a year into our relationship, after all the devaluation and anger had come out, I recall sitting in my place trying to talk to her when she was angry and attacking me. She had violated my boundary of not coming over, I said I'll call you when I'm done with work. She did not like that, at all. She had wanted to come over and 'connect', but to my credit I said that I don't think we are ready for that (after huge explosions in the week before and put downs and belittling), I'll call you when I'm done at my business. She ignored that three or four times, I said I'll call you three or four times, I said no don't come over.

She simply ignored all that and just showed up, then was inexplicably mad at me and blamed me for "taking her to the brewpub" with me and my clients, when "I know she hates brewpubs", when she just showed up against my clearly-stated wishes, and said yes when I asked her if she wanted to go to the brewpub with us. And she knew I went to the brewpub with my friends and clients every other Friday night after the event.

As we sat there in my place, her angry and attacking me, going around and around in circles. I said to her two things

-honey, you are really critical of me. I'm not critical of you, have you noticed that? "Well, I guess you're just a better person than me". Said with disdain and sarcasm
-honey, remember all the nice things you texted to your friend about me? They are all still true, I'm the same person as when you said that to your friend. "That's before I knew all this other stuff about you!" I said...what stuff?

They don't see us, they don't hear us. They have a narrative that serves them they project onto to us, then somehow it is our job to change who we are to repair that faulty narrative they have of us! How can we do this, especially when the narrative shifts to suit them?

[tina7868]

Thank you for your reply and for sharing your experience, jaded. You bring up great points. It does feel like I was a wall onto which he projected his feelings.

I thought that by showing him my heart, my real unconditional love, that he would recognize me. Instead, he disrespected and used me. These past few days, I`ve been feeling something new: disgust. I can see his actions for what they were. He put his needs first and completely disregarded my feelings. He demonstrated very low-level behaviours. I thought he had changed, but he isn`t ready for an honest and healthy relationship.

This is a new perspective for me. It almost feels like a lie because it`s so different than what I usually think. I`ve learned though that doubts tend to invade me when I start being self-assured. So, I`ll see where this feeling takes me.

I`ve been perusing the lessons section from this board. I realized that:

- I`ve been stuck in the `bargaining` phase of grief for a long time. I wanted to be his friend, his partner, his support...anything to maintain a connection. I have to face that in any way shape or form, he hurts me.
- I have had all of the `10 beliefs that keep you stuck`  . Every. Single. One. I had read them before! I think that I needed to come back to them a few times to see clearly just how stuck they made me.
- I wanted so much to believe in unconditional love and care for someone. But the line has to be drawn, I`ve come to learn, when someone is hurting you, because you need to give that unconditional love and care to yourself as well.

[tina7868]

Updates 

I feel like I`ve made more progress in the past few weeks than I have in years.

I oscillate between sadness and acceptance and hope, but feel done with negotiation. Who knew the best decision could be made in a moment after years of self doubt?

[SinisterComplex]

Updates 

I feel like I`ve made more progress in the past few weeks than I have in years.

I oscillate between sadness and acceptance and hope, but feel done with negotiation. Who knew the best decision could be made in a moment after years of self doubt?

Well....that is good news. 

Also, my dear Tina...the OCD aspect has been the main culprit most likely. You had to arrive at your own F it junction in your own way on your time. All that time spent over-analyzing and picking everything apart your mind finally got to the point of it was time to S or get off the pot!

ABP should be your go to acronym everyday. What does it mean? Always Be Progressing. 

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

Also, my dear Tina...the OCD aspect has been the main culprit most likely.

My therapist said something along the lines of `the pull of the cycle will be strong`. Which kind of sounds like something out of Star Wars  . I do feel it though. Wanting to `correct` the situation. The false comfort of what I now know are compulsive behaviours like checking if I am blocked. Especially in the mornings for some reason.

What helps is getting busy with work, talking to friends. I am in the process of furnishing my new place. I didn`t realize that couches were so expensive!

[tina7868]

Hello fam  ! I hope you`ve all been well. I`ve gotten busy with work (I seem to say that every post, but it`s true!). Unfortunately, so busy that I haven`t scheduled a therapy session in a while. But, I`ve been able to secure a couple of session so yay  !

Here is the update of my emotional state-of-being: okay  . I have had many ups and downs, and the trend over the past week has been down. I sense that my OCD is getting the better of me in many arguments that I have in my mind. I have tried challenging these thoughts when appropriate, validating them when needed, and reorienting them when they were negatively skewed. I`ve reached out to friends for support, gone on hikes, read books to take my mind off of things. And yet. I feel stuck in a place that I have been many times before. Stuck in a different way, since I know the truth now, that he didn`t love me.

Maybe this is just the way things are for now before they get better.

I am tired of wondering if and when I will hear from him, yet that seems to be where my mind wanders to again and again. My brain doesn`t like this role reversal it seems.

Keep your head up gang! I have had such a journey while posting here, and I hope that it will make more sense in the future.

[tina7868]

What I wish I had told him. Feeling like a lot of the pieces are coming together on my end  .


Hi,

I hope you`ve been well. I have been wrapping my head around what happened.

When we played the Friendship game, one of your questions was `what is something I don`t realize?`. I didn`t answer at the time. I regret that. I want to tell you about my experience.

While you were in a relationship, you said that you couldn`t talk to me because your girlfriend wasn`t comfortable with it. That was hard for me, but I understood and I gave you space. Several times, you then reached out to me. You needed love and validation, and I gave them to you. I read into it. I thought that you`d realize that you were coming to me because you had with me a level comfort that you couldn`t find in someone else. Even before your relationship, you would turn to me because you knew I`d be there for you.

You also have worried about not finding someone who will love you as you are. This hurt to hear, because I have played that role for you. You said that you were worried about still being friends with her, but you knew that I would be there. How did you know? That lead us to a conversation about what a solid basis of a relationship really is, and we spoke about how it`s that same support,friendship and trust, that is built on.

All that to say, I think what you didn`t, couldn`t or wouldn`t realize is that I offered to you everything you wanted and more. You took me for granted. The heart wants what the heart wants, and you don`t have to love me back and want a relationship with me. But given everything that happened, you either genuinely didn`t realize what you felt, or you did and knowing this you still used me to fulfill your needs when you had them. Both of these cases end up hurting me, and that is why I can`t accept this treatment anymore. 

[seekingtheway]

Hi Tina,

This reads like you have a lot of clarity... and you've distilled the situation into some very clear and simple realisations, and acknowledged the hurt that it's caused you.

How are you feeling about these words and realisations remaining unsaid to him at the time being?

[tina7868]

Thanks for checking in seekingtheway!

I wrote that letter about a week ago. In preparation for a therapy session, I went through my journal entries and messages to friends, and made a diagram that put everything together. I`m still adding to the diagram as I have more realizations.

The big points include that this journey for me has been one in 1) learning my boundaries and 2) managing my OCD. When it comes to learning my boundaries, I realize now that I felt in my body what I couldn`t at the time put in words. I was scared of letting go of a person that I didn`t even like. I`m only beginning to understand the full extent and importance of standing up for myself to him. Self care never leads away from our highest good, it leads towards it. Therefore, he is not for me, because everything in me was telling me that I had enough and couldn`t stand being around him.

How are you feeling about these words and realisations remaining unsaid to him at the time being?

I realized that he knew all along the underlying messages that he was sending to me by reaching out. He knew all the things that I thought he didn`t notice. He knew from the way that I responded that I still cared. It was obvious. He knew that he didn`t have feelings for me, but he kept me around in order to satisfy specific needs that he had. He acted against me. He used the confusion as a way to control me. I couldn`t see it, I thought that he didn`t notice who I was, but he knew, and you guys saw it, my friends saw it. Everyting was out there.

So I don`t need to say those things to him because he always knew. It isn`t necessary. I`m removing the power and hold that his confusion had on me. He doesn`t have the priviledge of knowing what I think anymore.

I fell for a younger, sweeter version of him who, yes, messed up (as did I), but that person would still own up to his mistakes. Over the past few years, he has grown into a more selfish and self-serving man. A man who only sees the people around him to the extent of what they can do for him and nothing more. I do not love this man. He repulses me. He steals (literally) and lies. He has changed. I changed too. I grew kinder and sweeter towards the people that I love. But I also got tougher. I do not want to play this game. I do not want to waste my time.

[jaded7]

Thanks for checking in seekingtheway!

I wrote that letter about a week ago. In preparation for a therapy session, I went through my journal entries and messages to friends, and made a diagram that put everything together. I`m still adding to the diagram as I have more realizations.

The big points include that this journey for me has been one in 1) learning my boundaries and 2) managing my OCD. When it comes to learning my boundaries, I realize now that I felt in my body what I couldn`t at the time put in words. I was scared of letting go of a person that I didn`t even like. I`m only beginning to understand the full extent and importance of standing up for myself to him. Self care never leads away from our highest good, it leads towards it. Therefore, he is not for me, because everything in me was telling me that I had enough and couldn`t stand being around him.

I realized that he knew all along the underlying messages that he was sending to me by reaching out. He knew all the things that I thought he didn`t notice. He knew from the way that I responded that I still cared. It was obvious. He knew that he didn`t have feelings for me, but he kept me around in order to satisfy specific needs that he had. He acted against me. He used the confusion as a way to control me. I couldn`t see it, I thought that he didn`t notice who I was, but he knew, and you guys saw it, my friends saw it. Everyting was out there.

So I don`t need to say those things to him because he always knew. It isn`t necessary. I`m removing the power and hold that his confusion had on me. He doesn`t have the priviledge of knowing what I think anymore.

I fell for a younger, sweeter version of him who, yes, messed up (as did I), but that person would still own up to his mistakes. Over the past few years, he has grown into a more selfish and self-serving man. A man who only sees the people around him to the extent of what they can do for him and nothing more. I do not love this man. He repulses me. He steals (literally) and lies. He has changed. I changed too. I grew kinder and sweeter towards the people that I love. But I also got tougher. I do not want to play this game. I do not want to waste my time.

Tina...wow! You are developing some real clarity and sense of who YOU are. Thanks for sharing this, I'm inching in the direction myself and it's helpful to read.

[once removed]

I was scared of letting go of a person that I didn`t even like.

its amazing how this can work.

i started speech therapy about three months ago. instantly became just out of my mind obsessed with my therapist. just endlessly miserable about it. i worked through it. its long gone. but it was, for a time, all consuming.

im talking about OCD in particular, but what you describe has happened in some form to most people. what can go into our feelings/attachment toward another person can be full of things that, nothing against them, arent really about them, and when that disappears, they can often suddenly seem dull in comparison. developing an insight into that can give you such an advantage in the dating world, or the world of human nature, for that matter.

[seekingtheway]

Great to hear your update Tina, you're clearly pushing through some really important work in therapy. And you do seem really clear in your realisations, and like you've spun the lens of focus from him and his needs to you and your needs, and this is where you start to become unstuck. It's been a really powerful season of progress for you.

These thoughts you have in terms of whether he saw what he was doing, and all the confusion that was created, I do agree with you. We put so much effort that goes into understanding someone who is not consistent in their behaviours, trying to figure out what things mean, how to keep them happy, how to keep things stable... and that is underpinned by our own fears of abandonment... that we totally lose sight of who we are, what we need, and why that relationship is not serving us at all.

I especially liked your comment about not giving him the privilege to know what you think about things any more. This is huge.

And to get to a place where you are ready to see that you didn't even like him towards the end - this is where you start to get your internal freedom and peace back.

I wonder if the younger 'sweeter' version of him was potentially being driven by the idea of being in love with you and not wanting to lose that. And once you'd shifted in his head to someone who was there to meet his needs but not someone he needed to commit to, you were just receiving a more true version of him?

[tina7868]

jaded, I`m so happy to hear that for you and look forward to reading about your insights! It`s definitely an ongoing journey that has its ups and downs, but I`m grateful for this space where we all get each other  .

onceremoved, I totally relate to all consuming thoughts. I used to think that my ruminations were so vast that there was no way for me to handle them. But once I started documenting them, I noticed that they all fell into one of 6 categories. The thing is, I had already thought about and drawn satisfying conclusions with most of these categories (all but 2 of them, which I am still working on!). It was very eye opening!

I have been making links between my father, the stressful situation I was in when the relationship was developping, my own desires for freedom...it is important to remind myself that I am safe now. I can choose to be free and not repeat the patterns of my past. I think about my children (if I ever have them), who would I want to be their father? I wouldn`t want to repeat the same traumas and experiences from the past.

seekingtheway, you ask some great questions. I am sure more clarity will bring to light what I felt for him at the time. The present situation holds no ambiguity though - he sucks and good riddance  .

I think I can only truly appreciate the hold the situation had on me as I let go of it. I now feel more free. I told him to let me go, to let me move on. At the time, I sort of thought I threw that in there to get him to leave, but it turns out that it was such a deep request on my part; I had been holding myself back because of the belief that we had some sort of connection. It kept me from engaging with real potential relationships. I feel myself more present, more attracted to and interested in others (in both friendly and potentially romantic ways!). And like I said, he knew what he was doing, and I believe that he is an unkind person for it. Just ew  !

[tina7868]

Hey fam  ! It`s been a while, at least for me, and I wanted to post an update.

I have been throwing myself into work and settling in to a new place, traveling, reading. I feel like I`ve gained a part of my brain back, the part that used to be so preoccupied with all things involving my ex, I weirdly even feel smarter than I have in years  .

I had several therapy sessions in a short period of time, and I really felt an improvement. I`ve been making a lot of connections when it comes to my past, the relationship with my ex, and even what I want looking forward. I`m finally looking forward! I`m contemplating how I want to love, who I want to show up as, what I`m looking for in a partner, and also how I want to generate my own happiness and be content in my little world.

There was a particularly meaningful moment where I was asking my therapist if my OCD diagnosis would be ongoing or if it was associated with this relationship. She said that it may be episodic, without a total relapse to where I was. But then she looked at me and said `the OCD was a part of why it was hard for you to let go, but the dynamics of this relationship were also very unhealthy. you were made to feel lesser than. and I want you to know that it wasn`t your fault. you didn`t go looking for that. it just happened this way.` Those words meant so much to me.

I tried some dating apps, but man is it wild  . People who were very keen on talking one day completely disappearing the next, people who turn out to be racist, people who seem way too invested too soon...oh well  .

Does all this mean I don`t think about my ex anymore? HA. Of course I do  . And it makes me sad sometimes. But the sadness is good sadness, it`s an acceptance of the end sort of sadness, or rather grieving for little Tina`s dreams and hopes that did not come true (and thank goodness for that). Technically, I could contact him. Well I might be blocked actually, but I could try to message him anyways and see if he has unblocked me. But then I think, what would there even be to say? Why would I want to do that? No way no thank you.

[SinisterComplex]

Hey fam  ! It`s been a while, at least for me, and I wanted to post an update.

I have been throwing myself into work and settling in to a new place, traveling, reading. I feel like I`ve gained a part of my brain back, the part that used to be so preoccupied with all things involving my ex, I weirdly even feel smarter than I have in years  .

I had several therapy sessions in a short period of time, and I really felt an improvement. I`ve been making a lot of connections when it comes to my past, the relationship with my ex, and even what I want looking forward. I`m finally looking forward! I`m contemplating how I want to love, who I want to show up as, what I`m looking for in a partner, and also how I want to generate my own happiness and be content in my little world.

There was a particularly meaningful moment where I was asking my therapist if my OCD diagnosis would be ongoing or if it was associated with this relationship. She said that it may be episodic, without a total relapse to where I was. But then she looked at me and said `the OCD was a part of why it was hard for you to let go, but the dynamics of this relationship were also very unhealthy. you were made to feel lesser than. and I want you to know that it wasn`t your fault. you didn`t go looking for that. it just happened this way.` Those words meant so much to me.

I tried some dating apps, but man is it wild  . People who were very keen on talking one day completely disappearing the next, people who turn out to be racist, people who seem way too invested too soon...oh well  .

Does all this mean I don`t think about my ex anymore? HA. Of course I do  . And it makes me sad sometimes. But the sadness is good sadness, it`s an acceptance of the end sort of sadness, or rather grieving for little Tina`s dreams and hopes that did not come true (and thank goodness for that). Technically, I could contact him. Well I might be blocked actually, but I could try to message him anyways and see if he has unblocked me. But then I think, what would there even be to say? Why would I want to do that? No way no thank you.

For what it is worth I will concur that OCD definitely played a big role for you. I understand all too well. I had trouble getting over a few relationships. I would say I am more OCPD than anything and that can be blamed on my background in sports and being an athlete...athletes are notorious for OCPD. However, I got over them and I view those moments and events in my past as stepping stones which led to me being the bad@$$ force of nature I am now. I've been through many hardships and currently dealing with plenty turmoil right now (not related to relationships) and what gets me through actually pertains to my mentality of being an athlete. I will not bow down, I will not be beaten, I will not be defeated...my opponent has to be willing to vanquish me absolutely. If I am defeated it just means my opponent won that day. I learn from it and make myself stronger. Failure only happens when I give into weakness and give up.

In order to succeed you must persevere and understand that the losses are a process of helping make you better and stronger. You are never a failure.

Having shared that Tina, I do not expect you to have as hardened or as intense of a mentality. However, I do suspect as time passes you may get to a place of indifference because the ocd side will start making you frustrated and make you go man this is such a waste of time, I do not have time for this crap anymore.

You have made dramatic progress and again...I am proud of you for that. Keep your head up and keep on the path you walking and good fortune will certainly come your way. Believe that!

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

Your words really hit home for me, SC. Thank you for sharing part of your own story - I feel in good company. I hope the turmoil in your life settles. I admire your mindset and will inspire myself.

Having shared that Tina, I do not expect you to have as hardened or as intense of a mentality. However, I do suspect as time passes you may get to a place of indifference because the ocd side will start making you frustrated and make you go man this is such a waste of time, I do not have time for this crap anymore.

Interestingly, the thought process you describe is super similar to what went through my mind when I kicked him out. I had the facts in front of me : he doesn`t like me, he wouldn`t be friends with me if we met today, he doesn`t have physical nor romantic feelings for me, he was just calling me when he had no one else...so, I thought, why.are.you.here? Why are you wasting my time? When I could be doing a number of other things more worthy of my attention, including being in my own company which is superior to being around someone who doesn`t even see me as a person?

I like this way of thinking - my ocd side has its benefits. I can be a stickler for consistency (and so you can imagine how my ex`s behaviour drove me crazy). I can be understanding, but to an extent if you say you`re going to do something and you don`t, I will hold you to that.

[once removed]

I tried some dating apps, but man is it wild  .

im glad that youre trying this.

it may or may not bring you love. but i suspect it can bring you a lot of trial and error that will help.

full disclosure: ive never tried online dating (yet). i think i created an account on tinder once, to look the app over.

ive heard a lot of things negative things about online dating, some of which i think completely miss the point, and others which i think reflect the changing times.

there is a whole lot of value in dating for the sake of dating, and even (if not especially) dating for the sake of experience, good or bad.

dating can help give you perspective. i think a lot of us here arrive without that. our relationships were crash courses in experiences that, while brutal, are not only very common in the dating world, but are all things we will see again. things that you can build a certain muscle for, and be able to bounce back from the experience of. youll meet selfish people. youll meet people that ghost you. youll meet people that you connect with, and then ghost you. youll meet people that overshare. youll meet people that develop feelings slower or faster than you. youll meet emotionally unavailable people. youll meet emotionally available people that arent the right fit, or maybe just arent the right time.

but dating in general, and the more you do it, will teach you about you, will teach you about others, and will teach you about you in relation to others. its how you learn what you like, what you dont like, and how to handle it either way.

there are a few hard truths about dating in general, and, from what i gather its like dating on the apps these days.

1. its a real look at the dating pool. the older we get, the more the dating pool of healthy candidates shrinks. youll see the worst of the worst. youll see great candidates that just arent the right fit or time. youll see people who are older and wiser, who have been through the wringer, and learned and grown from it (two of my best friends are divorced, you will see a lot of that). 100% of the people youll meet can teach you something about you or about people, or both. 95% of them, or more, will be a bad fit. frankly, thats the dating world.

2. it is simply how things are done these days. meeting people is hard. no one has time for it. it can be awkward when you do. if you eschew dating apps, and you go around asking men out instead, your experience wont be much different.

what i think online dating offers is the opportunity to meet lots of people, have lots of experiences, learn, and, possibly, if youre lucky, meet the right person.

what i think requires mentioning, is that these apps have changed in recent years. they favor subscriptions. they, reportedly, do things like hide attractive people behind a paywall. i was just reading how one of them will break your connection if one of you doesnt message within 24 hours. they want you to serial date, as a profession, and they have an incentive for you to not succeed, and they are actively mining that incentive.

so while dating is already a difficult thing, the most common source is getting more difficult.

if it were me personally, i wouldnt, necessarily, be using dating apps to find love. they are an avenue for it, by which you might, but like anything, they can be a crap shoot riddled with trial and error. i would be using it to meet as many people as possible, and have as many experiences as possible. for someone with OCD, it can give you perspective; you or i are less likely to obsess about one person when our options are open, or less likely to be wounded, at least long term, by experiences we deem commonplace.

in short, if you go on 1000 coffee dates, and never find your suitor amongst them, you can gain a lifetime of experience, perspective, and resilience, that will make you an even more ideal partner when you do meet that person. or, you may meet that person, that, like you, isnt super huge on this whole online dating thing, but is just trying to adapt, and you hit it off.

but your experience so far is not unique from what ive read. youll match - maybe no one messages, maybe they arent real, maybe they dont respond when you message them, maybe you hit it off and then they ghost you. some of this is the practical matter of navigating these apps these days. some of it is just a reflection of a limited, and limiting, dating pool. what they do offer is experience, good and bad, and if you let it, it can be, at worst, like "speed experiencing" if not "speed dating".

[tina7868]

Thanks for taking the time to write this reply, onceremoved! It`s definitely helping me shape my perspective.

dating can help give you perspective. i think a lot of us here arrive without that. our relationships were crash courses in experiences that, while brutal, are not only very common in the dating world, but are all things we will see again. things that you can build a certain muscle for, and be able to bounce back from the experience of. youll meet selfish people. youll meet people that ghost you. youll meet people that you connect with, and then ghost you. youll meet people that overshare. youll meet people that develop feelings slower or faster than you. youll meet emotionally unavailable people. youll meet emotionally available people that arent the right fit, or maybe just arent the right time.

I find these points especially interesting.

I will say that dating so far has improved my ability to ask questions, and get curious about someone`s life just for the sake of learning about different experiences. I joined a hiking group and felt the same openess and pleasure in meeting and spending time with these people with various backgrounds as I would if I was going on a date.

On another note, I notice that I am less patient when it comes to disrespect from others. At work, I received a call from a colleague who first said he was too busy to talk (then why did you call me?), and then started talking to someone else in his background while having me hold on the phone! I said `you can call me back when you are able to focus on this conversation` and hung up. Tina from a few months ago would not have done that  .

Although, I will say that it feels like two steps forward, one step back. As I progress, at times a deep sadness comes up from within me. A few months (or is it years now  ?) ago, in my posts, we spoke about the way I love : that I pride myself in being a loving and adoring partner, one that builds my partner up, one that will look past their flaws and love in spite of them, one that will tough out the hard times with them and enjoy their successes as though they were my own. My thoughts then turn towards my ex, who I gave my all too, who I moved accross the country for with the belief that the distance was the obstacle between us being together (I was wrong). And so I know I`m still grieving the loss of that investment, that dream, and I`m worried that I won`t be able to love like that again, fully invested and hopeful and true.

 

[seekingtheway]

I understand that you would feel that way - it is natural to feel that way, and there needs to be space for the grief of a lost dream...

But from my perspective, and with all this progress you've made, I think you'll be able to love in a better, more true and healthy way - a love that is boundaried, reciprocal, with space for your needs as well as your partners... without these things in place, I don't think it's possible to reach tap into true trust or intimacy, and I think most people who have achieved that within their relationships will tell you there's nothing better than that.

[tina7868]

I understand that you would feel that way - it is natural to feel that way, and there needs to be space for the grief of a lost dream...

But from my perspective, and with all this progress you've made, I think you'll be able to love in a better, more true and healthy way - a love that is boundaried, reciprocal, with space for your needs as well as your partners... without these things in place, I don't think it's possible to reach tap into true trust or intimacy, and I think most people who have achieved that within their relationships will tell you there's nothing better than that.

As time progresses, I have been feeling, overall, pretty peaceful. It really is a balance, between reflecting and noticing my feelings and emotions, and not `overindulging` in them to the point of getting in the way of living my life. I`ve been learning a lot about myself, both in relation to others (more specifically what boundaries I have to assure my own well-being within relationships) as well as who I am as an individual. I`ve been thinking about `energies` that I feel around certain people, in the sense that with some I get depleted very quickly, but with others (well specifically with my mom) I feel energized by her presence. I think it`s because she doesn`t `want` anything from me; she`s someone who generates her own happiness, and around her I can just be myself.

I am prioritizing rest, relaxation, chilling with friends, and cleaning  when I`m not working. As a result, I haven`t had as much time to go on dates, and I`m okay with that. I think my perspective is slowly shifting, in that I realize (as onceremoved mentioned) that there are so many options out there. I don`t feel rushed. I went out recently with someone who seems very sweet. I`m happy to take things slow, and it seems like he might be in more of a rush to get somewhere...but I know that I don`t have to follow suit, and I can communicate how I feel.

A lot has been shifting in the past few months, for me internally, even my friends have said that I am talking about the situation differently. Lately, I feel a bit down, almost like I am running out of gas. It`s like I can`t go back anymore (to how I used to think, to waiting to hear from my ex, to trying to contact him and being a doormat), but forward seems to require effort too (more reflection and healing), and so I am kind of `giving up` and staying stagnant.

[seekingtheway]

It's good to hear your update, Tina. So many positives that you just mentioned that show your path is taking you to new realisations and rabbit holes of thought and discovery. I'm really happy for you that you're feeling peaceful in where things are, even though a little down and stagnant. I think stagnant is okay at times, it gives space for a bit of grieving and sadness to come out, which is very normal... the forwards motion will come once again when you're ready for it.

I listened to 'Whole Again' recently, which I've seen recommended so many times, but hadn't gotten around to listening to. Overall I really loved it. Have you read it? He talked about the stages of healing, and that when you're a little bit further on the path of healing, you might find some ways of relating to people as a bit tiresome, i.e. when the dynamic requires a lot from you. So you noticing this about yourself is potentially a sign of some solid growth and the focus swinging back to you and what you need.

I have been noticing this exact thing myself, and it's funny because it's something I wouldn't have put a limit on as much before. I would have potentially seen it as 'connection', and that I had endless capacity for it, but I've realised that holding space for other people's grief and feelings... it comes at an expense to me. And I have only so much capacity for it. And I've also concluded that if there is endless space for someone's need to co-regulate or share their feelings, it doesn't give them the opportunity to figure out how to self-regulate or figure things out themselves, which is not actually a positive or helpful thing.

So this season has been about monitoring that capacity carefully and not going beyond what resources I've got spare, whilst not severing the relationship, which might otherwise be the knee-jerk reaction to a relationship that feels unbalanced. It's good to feel the confidence to set boundaries in terms of how much access people get to me, and also how much I have got to give before I get tired and resentful. Ultimately, this is the growth I need... I hope to commit long-term to this new direction!

I hope this last week has brought you some more peaceful moments!