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Author Topic: Weekend Homework, I would like a locked thread when I get back.  (Read 759 times)
PDQuick
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« on: May 11, 2007, 04:46:49 PM »

Ok guys. I am going through some rough spots here on my road. I called my therapist today to talk it over with her, got her machine. She did call me back, and I talked to her about 1/2 hour. She wasnt surprised at all with my current dilema. Actually, she recalled my words that predicted this. Funny, I didnt remember. She did. Anyway, she said some things that untwisted my thinking, and got me back on track. Gave me new light so to speak, so Im comfortable in my thoughts right now. As she always does, and Lenny is guilty of this as well, she says things that open up my mind to a new process of thoughts. Here is the point of these thoughts.

The entire reason that we are involved with these relationships is because we feel comfort in them. Comfort has many different levels, and reasonings in this situation. I felt comfortable with her because she was demanding, yelled alot and needed me to do things for her. My mother was just like that through most of my childhood. But my mom was supportive, and showed me that she loved me often. This was the case with my ex, at times. So basically, I had replaced my mother with a woman that carried alot of her traits, and the codependency started from there. I was not codependent on mom. The reason once we get out, that we take them back is because we dont find a compatible replacement in time before the ultimate re-engaging comes back in. we dont think that we are capable of finding "love" because we didnt find one then.

Lets untwist this shall we? Why are we settling for the actions, reactions, and projections from these people? Do we not think we are worth it? My answer is yes, I think Im worth a good woman. Why do we seek out this type of personality in a mate? Why do we feel comfortable with them? Why do we fall back in? My answer to this is simple for me. I dont know any better. I never have had an intimate relationship with a "normal" woman. I have had plenty of relationships with normal women, friendships. Too boring for me really. Show me a woman with a little mental problem, and Ill show you a good time! I think Im addicted to all the drama. Usually, the BPD is addicted to drama, but did you ever stop to wonder that they are, and so are we? Im starting to think that this savior complex, that I have, is because where there is a savior, there is, or was drama. I may be way off base here, but my thoughts are my thoughts.

I am thinking that I dont know what a normal relationship is, and that I love drama. Ive been trying to get away from all of this drama, but let it start up, and Im like a puppydog at a water bowl after two hours of playing ball, Im licking it up. I dont like it, but I must.

Your homework is to post why you think you were drawn in, and why you think you stayed. Maybe we can all help each other out here by trying to pinpoint what it was inside us that kept us in it. Im leaving for Greensboro in about an hour, and I hope to see a full 7 pages when I return. Lets do something about us here, after all, we cant do anything about them, Right?
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elphaba
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2007, 05:49:09 PM »

Wow...PD - being all thought provoking as he exits... :-*

I think for me it is probably many of the same reasons as you stated, our "training" through our younger years...our relationships, shape who we are and what are EXPECTATIONS are...this at least I've learned thru therapy...

For me growing up with a violent father, a submissive mother didn't exactly give me high expectations for men I guess - and not a very high opinion of women, sadly - but, it also gave me the subconcious thought that I would NOT let it be this way for me (inner child, saying this)...my 1st marriage, a disaster...married too young, married a guy that would #1 - be exciting, new, different from anyone I'd been with, #2 would piss my parents off so, yup...I found him alright...my parents stopped speaking to me, I ended up beat up, homeless w/two kids and kicking a drug habit and trying to keep the crazy man from killing me or the kids...sounds fun, huh?  But, I'd gotten what I'd wished for hadn't I?  I stayed with him too long because it didn't seem that bad, I grew up this way...it was familiar...but at some point, that darn strong inner child piped up and said NO, you don't deserve to be treated this way!

Stayed alone, really alone for a few years, just me and my girls against the world, I was strong, I was a fighter, I had such a sense of self, but, I was lonely and needed a friend, I found that too...I fell in love and things were fine...then old habits kicked in, it felt like dejavu ... My inner child started to weaken, I let myself NEED someone,  and my new found man began to show his true BPD colors...

I let him, it was familiar, I took it just like I always had...

I have not spent enough time nurturing my inner child, finding my inner strength and holding on to it...I must or I will walk that same familiar road again...I can't it would kill me this time...

So...this is what I work on every day...this place has helped me to do that...you all have helped me to do that...my girls most of all have helped me to do that...

Woah...what a way to kick off a weekend...a little self realization..

Elphie out defying gravity!
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garyw
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« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2007, 07:35:16 PM »

Mine was 100% visual I believe.

I had been a photographer here in Peoria for quite a while.I hadn't been out of the country yet and got to a point where I had 7 employes. Things were going well.  I got this account where I needed modles for the job about every week so I went to a model agengy to go through their book.One of the owners Stephanie showed me her people and I said actually I would like you. She came to the studio and I had a meeting with  my VP and said I would like to hire her full time as my assistant. he didnt recomend it but I offered it to her anyway and she took it. A year later she took off and my heart with her :P.

I didn't take that well and disolved the corporation and pretty much gave it to the employes and just got in my car with a couple camers and lights and drove to Chicago. Called a make-up artist I knew and me and her opened a studio up on Mich Ave the next couple of days. next thing ya know I was in the wirlwind of Chicago fast lane shooting fashion and having a hell of a time. Im got to know many international modles and shooters and picked up a differant needed style and vision. I started having a fantsy about being in Europe and running up on a

peasant girl with big eyes and straight hair and that Eastern Euro look. Then Stephanie was doing a hair show in the City and I hooked up with her for a drink and got all screwie again.

Went back to Peoria after a couple years of the Chi gig and moved into my folks trying to decide what to do next. All of a sudden my mom woke me up on the couch and said,"Gary..do you realise you have been sleeping on this couch now for 2 years."

That kind of woke me up and I decided to get out and live some more. I went to a coffee shop and this waitress asked me if she could help me. I looked up from my paper and there she was...this peasant looking girl with big empty eyes and  long straight hair.

I asked her if I could do a head shot of her and the rest is all history :P
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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2007, 07:58:22 PM »

I have to agree with everything you said.  I feel almost the same way about everything.  I must like the drama.  My friends that have moved away, call me to catch up on whatever soap opera I'm into now.  I think one thing that attracts a mate is a challenge.  My ex BPD bf is definitely that.  Never know where he is, who he is with, if he is going to call, going to come over.  His on and off drives me nuts and keeps me begging for more.  Will I ever catch him, that was my mission.  He was devoted to me one minute and indifferent the next.  I am so with you on this, why? We must get something out of it.  My dad left when I was about 12, before that, I never saw my mom and dad have one conversation.  They never spoke.  He drank, yelled, cursed, threw things and we stayed away as much as we could.  My mom hated him and so did we.  I never saw a loving couple really growing up.  Never knew how to communicate lovingly.  I married young but my exhusband started cheating almost immediately.  Several years into it, I realized with the help of pastors, therapists, etc. that he had a sexual addiction.  Long story there.  I finally left him.  Not sure why I stayed so long.  I got myself together but then met a nice man at church, fell in love and the roller coaster ride began.  After a year of wierd things happening, I researched personality disorders and voila (sp?)  I don't really know and my friends and family don't know why I tolerate such bad behavior.  I do feel like I am worth it but I wonder if a nice man will ever think that.  I did meet one guy that seems nice about a year ago.  Genuinely nice, good looking, concerned about me.  Always advising me to dump BPD guy.  Always there when I call him but you know what, I'm not that interested.  I don't know if I like nice, I am with you...boring!
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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2007, 11:00:57 PM »

Hey PDQ, Hope your heart is lighter and your head clearer by the time you read these posts.

Hmmmmmm.  Well I AM in counselling with the kids and quite a bit of MY family of origin stuff is coming out.  Kind of hard to speak disparingly of Grandma and Grandpa but it is clear that the T knows where he is headed.

So in a nutshell, I was attracted to my partner because I saw him as some kind of redemption, some kind of conduit to help me belong in my own family. 

I was the oldest of 4 kids, mom was 18 when she had me, relied A LOT on me to help her with household/younger kids.   I was "her right arm" until I started rebelling... very strict father.  My dad was Southern Baptist, mom was raised Catholic...we were raised Lutheran.  My dad beat me until I had welts across my backside...yeah the school knew, my friends went crying to the principal after PE class...back then the laws were different as far as reporting. 

Anyway, by 16 they were saying if I was 18 they'd kick me out.  Met first boyfriend became sexually active age 14... Very traumatic break-up with him at age 16...he was having affair with married 30 yo neighbor(parents unaware of this).  I finished high school in 3 years, went to work full time/college full time.  Moved out at age 18 and never lived with them again.

So, finally I got away...and then I got my life together...NOT.  I had a good job and made good money but I was not very discriminate re: relationships.  Lots of alcohol and most drugs at least once.  I was involved off and on for 8 yrs with a man who was married/though separated, got very attached to his young son.

Was very LC with parents.  Would bring these guys home for holidays: met this guy in Mexico found that we lived 100 mi apart, the married/separated guy with his son.  You get the picture.  I told my mother that I wanted to get a tatoo for my 25th BD,  I never did but my brother always swore that I  was just trying to provoke her.  I had her in tears.

So anyway, I went back to school to do what I love and make even more money.  Met husband through a friend, we corresponded for 3 months before we ever saw each other.  We had a lot in common as far as family stuff(both of us grew up in homes where dad was self employed, business done from home, no real "down time". He was 6 y older, had suffered personal loss/life threatening events, had a house, good job.  I could not have imagined a safer partner.   He was sweet, he was kind.  He lived in another city, we were engaged before I even met his family(big mistake as he was enmeshed with NPD sister who was 11 months younger).

My parents immediately liked him.  Considered him the best thing that ever happened to me/what they had prayed for, etc.  We planned and paid for a simple, yet large(300 people) wedding, we joined the church that I had grown up in(my parents had left over some politics).  I rarely even thought of my relationship with my family during my marriage.  He was like a buffer.  They loved him.  He was a model son in law.  He was closer to them than I was and at one of our last MC sessions he said to the MT..."even her own parents have told me that they knew how difficult she was to live with".

We had been married less than a week when he said that he didn't feel sexually attracted to me because he felt that I had gained weight(less than 10 pounds).  By the time we got home, he revealed that he couldn't fall asleep if anything/one was touching him.  We worked opposite shifts as it was, so it was easy to deny these issues(well sort of).  We had our son, he was premature, we had our daughter a few years later.  We only had about 4 days off together per month for several years.

We lived a very traditional family life: church, neighbors, family gatherings, BD parties for kids, kids had music lessons, 4-H, Taekwondo, volunteered at school .  We BOTH worked part time for many years so that we could spend more time with kids/avoid daycare.  I thought I had everything and it never occurred to me that I could ask for more.

This is too much.  What do I want to say ?  I was drawn in because I thought I had been finally accepted by my family.  In the end, I felt like I was being punished for my earlier lifestyle decisions because my husband totally/suddenly went sideways on me: incurred large debt, alcoholism, deception, hypersexuality (that had nothing to do with me).  I felt shame that  I couldn't keep my own husband interested in me.  My parents are supportive of divorce yet I know they wonder if maybe I could have done something to keep him closer to home.  Now I am back to the same LC that I had with parents more than 20 years ago.

I stayed because it was the only time in my life that I ever felt like I belonged to someone/something. It was familiar.  It was predictable up until 4-5 yrs ago. 

That's all I can say right now.  I just stopped smoking 2 days ago, think I'm having some kind of nicotine withdrawal/catharsis.  Yeah...interesting what your T said about "not feeling capable of finding love".  I guess as we know better we will do better.  I hope it happens during my life time. :Smiling (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2007, 11:19:04 PM »

Why was I drawn in----- hmmm.

Well, I knew my x for about 2 years before we got involved.  He was the guitar player in my band.  Now I'm not the sappy, sentimental type, but when he played it was mezmerizing.  In fact, there were several times where I actually forgot what I was supposed to be singing because I was so drawn in by what I heard coming out of that guitar.  It was like there was a pain or a deep soul searching going on when he played.  It came from a place deep inside of him that was not exposed in any other way.

I would think to myself WHY is this person living so far beneath his potential.  He is talented, bright, funny, attractive -- yet he lives in poverty.  And not just financial poverty.  He was poor -- emotionally, mentally, spiritually, physically AND financially.

So -- he became MY project.  I, the great ME, was going to make a difference in his life.  I was going to show him what he looked like through MY eyes.  And what a marvelous awakening this would be for him.  What a crock of sht!

It went to hell very fast and I soon realized I was up against something I was completely unequipped to deal with. I stayed so long because I was afraid to give up on him.  I was afraid what would become of him if he were left on his own. I feared for HIS life and ultimately, I feared for my own life.

In the end, I did NOT make a difference in his life.  In the end...I became poor -- emotionally, mentally, spiritually, physically AND financially.  This whole thing sucked the life right out of me.  It still makes me sad to know that I will heal, but he will not.  Not my problem, not my fault, but still makes me sad.

I do think we repeat family patterns in our relationships.  My bio Dad died when I was 4 -- I found him dead on the floor in a pool of blood -- traumatic to say the least.  BUT --- my brother, who was 11 at the time, not only lost his "daddy," but he was all of a sudden saddled with a 4 year old because my Mother had to go to work immediately.  My father had no life insurance and there was no extra money.  My Mom couldn't afford day care so my brother got that chore.  I'm sure he was resentful of that and he took it out on me -- he was very abusive to me verbally, and somewhat physically.  This was who my "father" figure was.  I didn't know that wasn't how men were supposed to treat women until I was much older.  My Mom, being the God fearing woman that she is, was oblivious to most, if not all, of the abuse.  When my Dad died so suddenly, she pretty much abandoned my brother and I for God. Her faith was what got her through that horrible experience. I was at church almost every night of the week -- usually all day Saturday and all day Sundy. Church came before everything -- school, sleep, home, family -- everything.  You can't compete with God. 

Anyway, I ultimately sought out the abuser for a mate -- and abuse me he did! 

Turtle

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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2007, 01:09:02 AM »

Great Post PD and I relate to most everything you said.

I think the addiction to drama plays a huge role in these relationships for both the bp and the non. Before hooking up with my exbp, I spent seven years with a full fledged alcoholic and there was some great drama in that relationship too. Many nons kind of get their hackles up when the possiblility is raised that they might be addicted to drama, I know I sure didn't agree with that idea when I first arrived here. I think the defensiveness comes from not understanding what an addiction to drama really is. Some people take it to mean that we like being abused or that we enjoy unpredicatable rages that come out of nowhere and are directed at us. But that's not really how I see it. It's not that I liked how my exbp treated me, it's not like I was sitting there going "oh yes, please berate me and hurt me some more because I really love it when you do that". It's just that being raised the way I was, being around insane behaviour feels normal to me. It's comfortable and I feel secure in it. I become more uncomfortable and insecure when life is peaceful and sane because I don't understand peace and sanity or at least I didn't. For the past two years I've been committed to learning how to live in a healthy state of mind but it has been challenging. There are times when I just feel so blah! like there is no color in my world. I confess that I do miss the extreme highs in lows that come with being in a dysfunctional relationship but I'm hoping to overcome this once and for all.

Thanks for the thought provoking post PD.
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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2007, 01:26:22 AM »

Ok guys. I am going through some rough spots here on my road. I called my therapist today to talk it over with her, got her machine. She did call me back, and I talked to her about 1/2 hour. She wasnt surprised at all with my current dilema. Actually, she recalled my words that predicted this.  Here is the point of these thoughts.

The entire reason that we are involved with these relationships is because we feel comfort in them. Comfort has many different levels, and reasonings in this situation.

I felt comfortable with her because she was demanding, yelled alot and needed me to do things for her.

My mother was just like that through most of my childhood. But my mom was supportive, and showed me that she loved me often. This was the case with my ex, at times. So basically, I had replaced my mother with a woman that carried alot of her traits, and the codependency started from there.

I was not codependent on mom.

The reason once we get out, that we take them back is because we dont find a compatible replacement in time before the ultimate re-engaging comes back in. we dont think that we are capable of finding "love" because we didnt find one then.

Great post, I dove into this same thought- pattern, still processing it , Co dependant , co dependency is in truth a lot deeper then the general population actualy knows or admits to or even wants to talk about- perhaps because they are not co dependant or they dont want to or need to look this deep into them selves. For example , when I told my siblings I was co dependant with my ex- they agreed,  but not in the depths that I understand my self to be and that's ok as I see it now -recovery from co dependency is about me.

I have posted this before and it was huge with me and the biggest part of letting go of my ex BPD

One of the codependant traits- is fear of abandonment- kinda of scary to admit becuase it is a same trait as a BPD. after accepting my part of codependency allowed me in some way to let go of that insane constant thoughts of her.

because my ex is BPD and at first I did not know that, at the same time I did not know I was co dependant- did not matter- I became co dependant on her even with moments of clarity and moments of seperation, I went back- hence the co dependency dance.


The reason once we get out, that we take them back is because we dont find a compatible replacement in time before the ultimate re-engaging comes back in. we dont think that we are capable of finding "love" because we didnt find one then. This with all respect to all members I strongly disagree with, in my own opinion, I think the reason we take them back- if we are truly talking about co dependency, is we are codependant and we do not and did not take the time or energy or have the insight or this board and its staff/resources to open our thoughts in our own issues in our own time and take that time to understand or own red flags trust out gut so to speak to see clearly the red flags of our  BPD's not because of fate in finding another before we met our BPD.

Have a fun safe trip PD and thank you for the great post .

CM
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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2007, 07:35:02 AM »

PDQ my friend,

As you know my relationship/marriage to bp wife only lasted about two years. It is the DRAMA more than anything else that helped me realize what a mess my marriage was. I was dying a slow death because of the ups and downs and constant chaos.

I realize that I have some codependent traits and tendencies, but I don’t like nor do I want needless drama in my personal life. The outside world has enough drama for me. Just watching the news or reading the paper can be overwhelming. I want my close personal relationships to be a place of peace and a shelter from the storms all around us.

I have gained a lot by reading your posts. Thank you.

CH

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« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2007, 08:03:09 AM »

Hey everyone,

Nope, not the drama.  I hate drama.  he always promised me there would be none in our marriage, but as it turns out that was all I got.

I got drawn in a different way.  Growing up, I was always taught that my main focus in life should be to get married, have a family.  My mother never had a job in her life, she was financially dependant on him for her entire adult life.  School, careers were never encouraged for me, but they were for my brother.  I can remember clearly them buying him his first car, but not for me, my father said "you don't need a car", your boyfreind can drive you wherever you want.  So, that's pretty much what I did, had to keep a guy around at all times though.  What was stressed most of all to me growing up?  Looking good (that was a biggie), learning how to cook, clean, and take care of  your husband.

I never felt comfortable taking care of myself, all that training when I was young has never left me.  I was taught to give up all my power to a man, just make sure I look good doing it.

Now, when I met this nut job, in the beginning he was ever so interested in me.  How I felt, what I wanted and expected. He did everything he could to fit this image in my mind.  The family man (been divorced 4 times?), the breadwinner, loyal, capable, well, just about everything.  The worst of it all, I became financially dependant fairly quickly.  He took over everything I dreaded, billd, taxes, car repairs, everything.  I felt really comfortable with all that.  This all seemed normal to me.  And it got me hooked in but good.

Problem was, he had a mental illness that I did not see.  and all that came out when he had me hooked, convinced me to quit my job,to depend on him.  Every horrible BPD trait was thrown at me.  I was "tested" over and over. All of a sudden, everything he loved about me, was why he had to leave me.  I was a sponge (his favorite insult), I was ruining his life, ect.  Funny, but even after he left, he was still throwing money at me, still paying bills, keeping my health insurance, because he convinced me I couldn't so it on my own. And i have no one to blame for all this but myself.  I got hooked in for my own issues, and stayed far too long because of my inability to overcome them.

I still have a problem with becoming a strong woman, I just don't feel that in me.  It's not what I want, it;s something I am not comfortable with.  It's not that I couldn't, it's just not what I want.  I will not look for another relationship till I work out these issues of my own.  If I don't, all I see is another relationship ending the same way as this one did.
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« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2007, 09:25:52 AM »

Nope, for me this was always the uncomfort zone.  We were always in and out of therapy because of it.  I hate drama.  I grew up in a home where my parent's never argued in front of the kids.  They always discussed behind clossed doors.  We only saw the totally combined front.  Both parents have lot's of love and respect - still married and past 55 years.

For me it was visual and sexual and projection.  She was hot and was wild and we had the same religious background.  I really dug her gma.  So I projected a lot and denied a lot esp in the beginning.  She did work hard at first to mirror back to me.  Also, I was a workaholic.  I was often either on the road or working 6 days/week over 55 hours.  That also was a source for her discontent but I made up for it by lavishing her with gifts and dinners and trips.  In hindsight, knowing now about the illness, it hurts me to know that when she told she was struggling with my hours she really was struggling intensely.  I truly had no ability to conceptualize what the alone time did to her.  The voices that she heard and the emptiness she felt.   I am a fixer...I stuck in way too long.  As more crap unfolded, I thought hell, I fix crap for a living I can fix this.  What a stupid idiot I was.  Hubris doesn't even hit how dumb I was. 

PD, how come you don't have a white hat?  csandra, good luck with quitting!

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« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2007, 04:45:29 AM »

Well,

I met Cap'n at a crossroads in my life.

I had been living in NYC working and pursuing my dreams when I was struck down with a serious illness. I was hospitalized for 3 weeks and had to quit my job. I ended up back home living with my b/NPD father who is also an alcoholic. I spiraled into deep depressions and felt trapped living with my parents. I had always sworn that I would never live with that man again. After 2 years I met Cap'n he seemed to be the polar opposite of my father and I got hooked.

My childhood was spent walking on eggshells and although I hated it and swore I would never live that way again it plagued me anyway.

I would not say I was addicted to drama because I hate it. I like peace and don't get bored of it. But because I didn't really understand myself and spent so much time trying to avoid my father type I married one. I didn't ask myself what I wanted instead of what I didn't want.

I would say I wanted to be loved and have a happy family. I wanted to 'rescue' this poor brilliant creative man from himself. I thought I could love him until he loved himself. What I didn't know was how abnormal his behavior really was. His son was dying so I chalked it up to grief and depression. He was so sweet and needy and I needed to be needed. I also needed to get away from my father and to be rescued right back.

All of my life I had to fight for survival. Growing up I was the responsible one. I cooked meals, organized my family and never really had a childhood. I was the one that fought back and tried to protect my weak en mother and my little brother. I was admired for my strength. But inside I was exhausted from trying to be perfect.

I learned not to dare make a mistake or the wrath of my father would come down on me. I was conditioned to be hyper tolerant, to ignore my own instincts and to just try harder to please. My father seesawed between adoring me and then abusing me mentally and verbally.

I dated some decent enough guys but not one that I ever let my guard down with. I was always the 'heartbreaker'. I wasn't the type to stick around long if you weren't what I wanted. I was perfectly happy single and casually dating. Then I got ill had to move back home and it was a living nightmare.

I also began to want to settle down and have a family of my own.

I was just starting to make plans to go back to NYC for a grad degree when the man with the bass guitar entered my life. He told me all of the things I  longed to hear my father tell me as a little girl. I was hooked.

I think my inner child didn't want to let go. I was looking outside for what I needed to find inside.

It is late and I am not as articulate as I would like but I wanted to respond before turning inb/c the thread could be locked by the time I get back.

I think my father was running my life even after I left home. I was still living my life reacting to my negative/conflicting feelings about him. This past year I have grown up. Understanding that my father is not just a nasty jerk but a disordered individual helped me to better understand myself. I let him go. As I let him go I also let Cap'n go. I understand myself and my values better. I have learned SO much just coming here.

I can't say if I am/was codep totally or not. I don't think so but I surely had some traits.

I will tell you one thing I won't date for at least a year after my divorce.  :Fact:

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garyw
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« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2007, 07:20:14 AM »

Excerpt
I will tell you one thing I won't date for at least a year after my divorce. 

I think that is so key. Everyone should spend at least a year just with themselves weather they have come out of a bad relationship or not.
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« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2007, 10:12:56 AM »

Good Post PDQuixk.  I think Beanie had most of what got me involved.  I got divorced and she was waiting in the wings for a long time and in fact would e-mail me about things and ask how I was.  I now remember she rarely returned a feeling, only a sentence or two.  She worked at mirroring me a lot, did a lot manipulation and a few rages, but not as much of that.  I was lonely.  She was wild, sexy, and intense to begin with.  Then after about 6 months or so, she became hot and cold at times quite quickly.  I could never do enough.  My own neediness and desire to help her out and make her life better kept me there.  Until I began to realize, gee what happened to my life, my needs and when does she care about me and my feelings.  That was the key, she doesn't.  I even looked for new jobs partly because of her and instead of really just saying goodbye, I even still hung in there.  Of course when I had an interview in AZ, she freaked big time and really fell apart and of course then I am abandoning her and that was hard.  She clung tight for awhile, but another key was honesty could not occur in the relationship.  I did not want to set her off at times so I walked on egg shells.  What is with that?

   I grew up with a mom who was harsh at times and a very gentle loving dad.  When he died unexpectedly at 57, my world did not go well.  I love my mom and today she has mellowed a lot, but wow, I keep getting with people who have anger issues also.  I also get involved with people who have chased me first and it is not ever really a mutal experience.  That is why not being involved right now is ok and even though lonely at times, I need time to reflect on what I want and to have something that becomes a mutual growing thing, not being chased.  In fact I think being chased will be a sign right away that something is not right.  I truly want a friendship that develops over time.  My bp experience did not take longer than 3 months to get going.  Obviously not enough time and I was lonely and someone wanted to be nice to me...I have learned I can be nice to me and when I am there is not that deep need to be with someone in a needy way or fear of abandonment.  The only person I really abandoned was myself.  So me, myself, and I are getting reacquainted.  It is going quite well and I certainly after 6 months of NC don't want the crazys back.  I am just glad to have my life for the first time and I am really doing things to help make it better.  Sure I am lonely, miss the touch of a soft woman next to my skin, but and I mean BUT, I don't miss the mind bending crazy attitudes that went with it.  Everyone has been right here, time does really help and I don't get sucked in and in fact have really really taken NC serious and when no seeing her goes with that for a few weeks, I really notice how much better I feel at this point.  She is ill, she will always be ill and whatever toy she wants to marry fine.  It won't be me and I am thankful for that.  It still hurts to see her flaunting him in my face when she does and my anger is still there.  Yet it gets better as I take care of me and that is a real key!
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« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2007, 10:34:49 AM »

and after I read what Susan Peabody wrote I also know she chased but with the seductive witholder thing also.  That fits in perfectly with the NPD part that I always discuss.  I can't even find one of those little faces to express what I feel...it is sad, really sad, but no tears.  It just fits in so well it is sad. 
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« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2007, 05:01:16 PM »

gary-I know that is something that I will need just to heal and do more introspection. I know they say that in AA too and it seems appropriate in this case too.

Beach and beanie-I was also never a chaser and he chased me. Let's face it is flattering for someone to want you enough to pursue you. I know it felt good to my ego. THen the hot and cold starts.

It is like some science experiment in a lab where they figure out human responses using monkeys or something. Lavish the monkey with praise then take it away and repeat.

I didn't really trust men very much b/c of my father and having been molested as a child so I was not the type pushing for a commitment in my relationships. I didn't like having to rely on a man for anything. So when he broke down my guard by mirroring what he knew I needed I felt safe and cherished. I poured out my heart and he manipulated me with it.

I also think deep down he hates women and hates his BPDmother. I think he saw my strength and initially liked it but worked to destroy it. He needed to do to me what he couldn't/can't do to his mother. I walked into a doubly bad situation and ignored my inner voice.

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« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2007, 05:27:44 PM »

As I see my child hood problems were not with my mother she was very loving and supporting, I had problems with my father, in his eyes I could do anything be anything I wanted to be in life and then It was I could not do anything right unless I did what he wanted me to do exactly, I was called some names and allways compared to my siblings grades in school and thier good behavior,  I was spoke at not to. I know a lot of that is just learning and growing up but there is more. When I was young, very young 5 years old I  had a bad temper- with that fights with my siblings and at the time he thought he could beat it out of me, I did get spanked a lot and in one time so severe I heard my siblings out side the house- until 10 years ago I thought the sounds they were making was luaghter- they were crying - and could hear my screams while I was spanked very severely, to the day I only remember going into the room and the big sliding oak doors being shut, the first few swats, then it's a blank  , rarely did my father talk with me- I was talked at, I think with all that said, it effected my self esteem, my fear of confrontation and at this point always trying to impress him, and when I did do something good- I was told I could improve and do more if I just studied more work harder-did what he told me to do,  seldom was it enough, something was always bad around the corner, so maybe that is the co dependency tie- I do not know who knows what else I do not remember ?

I dont think I was chased, could of been-  I was re-engagementd a lot, with the back and forth make up break up.  dont know today is kinda of bad day thinking about my ex- she is a mom.


CM
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« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2007, 05:28:34 PM »

ThanK you all for your posts, and I will say that I was chased as well. Chased, and chased hard. I wonder if that is as common with all of these BPD's. I can identify with everyones point here, but especially you Beanie. I feel like I could have written that word for word. I am a work-a-holic as well. She still says that I drove her into other mens arms, and relationships. I drove her into this marriage. It is my fault that it is falling apart after only a month. When do they ever take any responsibility for their own actions?
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« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2007, 06:03:05 PM »

PD - in answer to your question...a resounding NEVER!

DB chased me for two years before I finally let him catch me...once he had me he knew he had me and now he is still sitting believing that it was my actions, my children's actions that DROVE him to act the way he did, he honestly believes that he is still some sort of white knight who tried to help me and my girls...he cannot see the damage he did and will never take responsiblity for it.

Their ability to twist things to fit their own agenda is absolutely amazing.

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« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2007, 03:12:52 AM »

Oh it is always someone else's fault.

I used to actually entertain this in the spirit of being fair but as soon as I realized that what he was really doing I could put his words into some sort of perspective.
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« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2007, 06:36:00 AM »

Why are we settling for the actions, reactions, and projections from these people?

Even after everything he's put me through, I still feel that I'm getting drawn into this 'game' - I have to take some responsibility for continuing to look for answers/expect a rational explanation/seek an apology when I know it's not going to happen.  All that ever happens when we get into these kinds of conversations is that I end up 'screwed'.

I was brought up in a loving environment, very church oriented, large extended family plus constant visitors.  It was chaotic and I left home determined to live a more organised, ordered life.  Wasn't getting married till at least 30, no kids etc.  Met uBPDh my first week at university and was married a week after graduation.  Did split up with him about 8 months after first going out as I didn't want to get serious about first boyfriend and he seemed very serious about me.  Didn't last long before we were back together.  He split with me several times when he had exams and came back next day.  He was the one who chased but he was also the one who pushed away.

None of the females in my family are 'girlie' - certainly not prone to public displays of affection (even on wedding days). I felt guilty most of married life that he seemed to love me more than I loved him.  I can just about laugh at this now as he is about to move in with the gf he started dating a week after ending marriage and I'm the one totally devastated!  He's certainly not following Gary's advice to take some time out after the end of a significant relationship!  Of course his take on it is that the marriage had been 'dying' for years so doesn't understand why everyone is amazed at how quickly he keeps jumping into things.

I am trying to work out if I''m devastated because I loved so deeply or whether I just can't cope with the unexplained rejection and instant replacement.  Makes it worse that we have some angry and confused kids.  I know that when he first moved out and then wanted back home almost immediately, I freaked.  I was so relieved having him out the house and not breathing down my neck.  I had for a long time wanted some space and I admit that when he first mentioned the new love of his life (hadn't met her, just heard about her and remembered her from years ago), part of me was hoping they'd get together!  So why am I so upset that he did?  It's the telling me he can't live without me and then moving on instantly that i think just has me insane. 

I'm also someone who despite being confident in many ways (and I'd say I didn't use to have self-esteem issues) is pretty good at taking the blame for stuff - at work, in family, at home etc.  I'm still apologising to kids for taking their dad back (when he just left again weeks later).  So I know that I have almost 'fed' the BPD because there has certainly been plenty of blame around to shift onto me and I've soaked it up even though I know in my head that it's not always my fault!



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« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2007, 07:36:54 PM »

Hello everyone, After the weekend with some time to think about this topic in this post based on my experience with my past, my ex BPD and my two post  I am of the mindset now, to just work on my codependency issues, read more , learn about my self improve my self and my life build my self esttem back up and just note date for a while.

Sometimes digging too deep takes control of me and that keeps me in the past, I moving to the future and what lies ahead deal with that  head on while learning more about making the right choices.

Thanks PD, GOOD POST!

CM



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« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2007, 07:47:27 AM »

pdq i am a fixer...,

i love ed mare and i could fix her... there was never anything i couldnt fix , expesially for myself...

i realized sometime down the road that sometimes there are things i cant fix...

how bout you?there are things you cant fix either...

and it goes deeper thatn her quick...when there are other factors involved it makes the choices harder...or you feel you dont have a choice...obligations maybe...

where do you want to go with this quick?how far can you go with this...

tony
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« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2007, 07:55:26 AM »

I was talking to t yesterday about feeling that I was treating uBPDh as child - I wouldn't abandon my children, I want to protect them, I want to make life easier for them etc.  Maybe the reason I'm struggling to let go of h is that I think of him as a child (not consciously and partly because he behaves like one!) and I still want to help him even though he is just about to move in with new gf!  I am willing to take him saying awful things to me but I can't do it back because I think it'll hurt him too much.

Something not right here!
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« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2007, 08:14:43 AM »

 i think the child thinking is important...

how many of you feel like you left a  40 year old child to go out in the cold hard world unprotected...if you left them

...even though they are ruthless and cunning creatures?

tony
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« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2007, 09:12:00 AM »

Arggggggggg, TonyC I just posted how I am a fixer but I was insane to continue to try and fix this...that was my insanity in the relationship.

I brought up the leaving the child thing in T - No, it can actually be good for them.  We are doing wrong by them by enabling their bad behavior.   They have the skills but manipulate us to do everything eventually.
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« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2007, 09:25:18 AM »

 yes being the fixer...is draining..., sure i would donate 6 hrs to  fix her current crisis... to only allow room for the next crisis...

while the words "why am i doing this "kept reapeatiing in my head...

you spend so much time fixing your BPD s/o that , you forget about yourself and eventually crash... and there is noone to help us,,,,

tony
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« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2007, 09:52:13 AM »

Yes, it is insane when we try to parent an adult.  More to the point, they get used to it.  I am very LC but since filing for divorce, my husband has more than once come to me with his problems...very indignant that I have let go of the rope.  Expecting my sympathy that things didn't work out with his new gf..."because it's just too soon, I just didn't want to be alone".  Again when a very distant friend of his lost his wife to cancer, I was not understanding enough that he would still be upset 3 months after her death.  Again when he had extended cold..."I don't expect YOU to care". 

Still, I feel guilty for checking out on him AND for putting myself on the pedestal as some kind of "Joan of Arc".  Yeah he is having quite an adjustment to not having my regular input on processing/solving problems of daily life.  His problems will ALWAYS be bigger than mine.  His problems will always be more important to him as it is always about them.  By not keeping better boundaries, I really did lead him on.  He had no reason to think that I WOULDN'T always be there for him.  Yeah, I can see why he might feel abandoned.
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« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2007, 12:05:44 PM »

Don't laugh, but I thought I'd found someone uncomplicated. I'd dated a great deal and had a 1 yr. teenaged marriage, lived alone 7 years, then a marriage I enjoyed, but he went back to his wife because he hadn't wanted that divorce and she took him back. So, I decided only to date bachelors from then on and I was 28, so I found someone younger who didn't even have much of a dating history due to his moving to a new city, he said. Eureka! He spent every moment with me when he wasn't working and I wasn't lonely anymore. He had no ex-girlfriend to go back to and he didn't have any kids or ex-wife either. He was family-oriented and although his parents lived apart in the same house, they seemed like friendly people in a family environment. All I wanted was to have the same nice home my parents had enjoyed and shared for many years. I wanted a family and house to take care of and I enjoyed the thought of it. He seemed to want a companion and he was always fun to be around. He had a job he liked and he apparently loved both his parents. Children were cute to him and he interacted well with them. This was the only true thing about him except for having no ex in his past.

After marriage, he caused some hurt feelings the first Christmas when he said we couldn't afford an instant camera I wanted. Then he went out and immediately spent the same amount on a third gun. Clue? He was jealous when we had a baby although he loved his son very much and enjoys having one. His job caused such stress when others were promoted over him, but he wouldn't study for advancement tests. At one time the good ole' boy network got him through, but growth changed procedures.

His parents got a divorce, a man moved in with his Dad and his mother and her boss each got divorces and married. He was not thrilled. More stress. I stayed because my H admitted what he was doing that was wrong, and he agreed to see anyone I wanted for some help. My mistake was that I applied logic and reasoning to fixing the problems as if he was able to do what was necessary to be happy. He kept promising and I kept believing because the framework for everything I'd ever wanted was there and it looked very good from the outside. So why couldn't we fix what was inside? He was smart and agreeable.

I didn't know what deep-seated problems were in him: the immaturity and repressed anger toward his mom for earlier abuses and her history of three nervous breakdowns when he was young. I just couldn't believe what I'd gotten into and I wouldn't walk away. Out of fear and then wanting to keep my same lifestyle and advantages. I pretended it was all right and created little pockets of happiness for myself.

Well, this should add some pages! I could go on, but it is pretty clear what happened. Lied to myself as much as he lied to himself. (edited this sentence)

AB

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« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2007, 04:14:22 PM »



PD,

I want to be part of the LOCK!

My intentions when I got involved with my ex were to change her life by showing her love.  I was sure that if I took care of her and showed her love, she would be happy and I would be her hero.

HA!

I always knew I had issues that at times would influence my behavior, but I was aware of them in my other relationships.  With this relationship, I didn't know what hit me because I did EVERYTHING for this person.  I was an   and she told me I was the  :evil:

Oh gosh, it just makes me nuts to think about the mean things she said to me.

I digress.

Anyway, I do have a fear of abandonment and that comes into play as far as trust goes in my relationships.  What I mean by that is, trust is more than just the other person being unfaithful.  It's trusting that they will accept you and support you through the good and the bad. 

I think I stayed because if I abandoned her, I would be doing what I was against. 

I can thank her for one thing, I learned so much about myself.

What a tough lesson!   

pizaluvr
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« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2007, 04:50:28 PM »

ya know sometimes some really great people need to see or confirm what they were thinking before...some dont get the opportunity, they wander around the rest of thier lives wondering if it them...with no solid closure ...

few get to see it wasnt them ...that they were a good person... the whole time... and the person , after a long hard second look ... is the same creature they left behind...

i would be proud of that person and proud to know that person had the strength to confirm what they already knew...that they are a great person...and come back a better person for it

tony

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« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2007, 05:23:36 PM »

Just been reading SWOE for millionth time - I like  to dip in now and again.  Reading bit about resolving childhood issues (p105).  Women are supposed to marrytheir 'father' but I think I married my 'mother'.  I would say I had a secure and loving upbringing on the whole (though mum suffered PND - I don't remember this period). My mother was ALWAYS helping others   - helping them move house, feeding the five thousand, supporting alcoholic friends and ex-cons, looking after other people's kids when they needed a break...etc.  Life was never dull. My uBPDh has always been in caring professions and I was often asked what it was like being married to a saint.  I always felt I was more selfish, materialistic etc and wanted to be a 'better person' - I was shocked recently to read in my journal written in the early days of our relationship that I felt I didn't deserve h at times, that he would see who I really was and not love me as much.  Few friends and family would ever describe me as insecure - I wouldn't have said it about myself until last two years of OZ - but it was there.

Piza talked about being grateful to BPDex for having learned so much and I agree with this.  Tony talks about a person knowing that they are great. I'm still in pain and angry and confused but I don't feel the same need for acceptance from parents/bosses/ex and this has been liberating.    And I should add that I actually like myself!

It's weird - I'd have said up until  recent traumas that I was 'comfortable in my own skin', that I had pretty good self-esteem but looking back there were insecurities underneath and a fear of really being myself in case others didn't approve.  I had to be the good girl.  thanks to OZ, my self-esteem has taken an absolute battering (and I've battered myself), I've lost a lot of confidence and my life has just been one whirlwind after another recently but in many ways I feel more of an inner peace and calm than ever before.  I know so much more of who I am and I'm happy with me.

Problem is, I'm so happy  Smiling (click to insert in post) with me that I can't understand why h would ever leave and replace me instantly!  Told him the other day that it was his loss.
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