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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Make the conscience decision -- happy or angry.  (Read 2580 times)
PDQuick
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« on: April 27, 2009, 07:19:02 AM »

I read these boards, and I love you guys, I truly do. I remember back when I first registered, and I remember all the emotions, all the hatred, all the anger and the fears that I possessed, and that lived inside of me. As I read here, its a common theme that runs rampant through the thoughts of many people. Its a natural thing, and it is to be expected.

We all want the same things in life. We want peace, happiness, comfort, and love. I ask you, can we have these things in the shadow of hatred, remorse, anger, and frustration? The answer is a resounding no. I never found any of it clutching the feelings of negativity in my life.

At some point, we have to make the conscience decision to either be happy, or continue with our negativity, and our toxic feelings. In order to embrace the greater things in life, we must first put down the negative things, or risk poisoning those fine things. At some point, we have to decide, anger or acceptance.

Just isnt right for me. Its a powerful sentence, and thought. It releases all of the quilt, possession, and wealth from any given subject and allows us to accept something as it pertains to us, rather than the world. Everything in life has value to someone, but it may not hold value to me. Trying to tear it down just because we dont care for it allows us to remain bitter, angry and hostile. Is that what we truly want out of life? Is it our goal? Of course not, so why allow those thoughts and feelings to continue in our lives?

It can work from everything from broccoli to past relationships. Life isnt black or white, its a multitude of colors, and grays. Something is never so evil that it doesnt have a useful place in this world. Everything has a purpose. There is no need to understand that purpose, as long as you understand your role within that object.

Religeon- wars have been started, millions killed because of a belief of a higher power. Notice I said belief, for noone truly knows for sure what awaits us in the afterlife. Wouldnt the world be a better place if a Muslim, looking at christianity, said to himself, that just isnt right for me? Then dismissed his feelings, and went about his life.

Relationships- Cant we realize that the person we fell in love with is capable of finding, and attracting a mate? Kinda like they did us? Why is it that we have to tear them down, even after the end of the relationship? That serves no purpose other than keeping us angry, and preventing us from moving forward with our lives. Its not that these people are totally unloveable, its just simply, they arent right for us.

Is there a reason we have to kick in the sandcastles before we leave the beach? What is it that we get from destroying the house we built once we have had to find a new place to live? Is there a purpose? Is there a meaning? Is there any finality in saying that there is no use for something, just because we are done with it?
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« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2009, 09:01:46 AM »

Hey there,

I agree with much of what you wrote... letting go, letting go of anger, embracing good.  Accepting where we have been and choosing how we will live the rest of our lives..

BUT...
Excerpt
Cant we realize that the person we fell in love with is capable of finding, and attracting a mate? Kinda like they did us? Why is it that we have to tear them down, even after the end of the relationship? That serves no purpose other than keeping us angry, and preventing us from moving forward with our lives. Its not that these people are totally unloveable, its just simply, they arent right for us.

If my Ex would move on and live his life I would be perfectly happy. Honestly.  BUT he continues to work to engulf or destroy his children. He continues to work to destroy me and my happiness.  He has been on a relentless campaign to control our middle child or destroy her and to manipulate our youngest child and alienate him from me.   Anyone who can treat children, esp his own children, as objects to own and control, or "subjects" to bow down before the King Dad is, in my not so humble opinion, incapable of true love and unloveable.   

I will stay only as angry as I need to, to protect my children from his horribleness.

Crystal
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« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2009, 09:19:57 AM »

Crys, I understand, and I say that those situations are known as "Extenuating Stinkums." 

If you keep your cool, the children will see your strength and will see his manipulations. As human beings, it becomes unnatural to keep "proving" ourselves to others, and we tend to want to be who we are, not what someone else wants us to be. Your children will see that "King Dad" doesnt want children, but pawns in his game of chess. Nevermind the fact that Kings can only move one space at a time, and Queens are capable of maneuvering the board completely in one move. A king is only important in his own mind, it takes the subjects to give him his persona. When the subjects finally see that the queen is all loving and accepting, the pawns checkmate the king, and the game ends.

I know you pretty well, and yet, for some strande reason, I dont worry about you. I know you will get what you need, and I know you have the wisdom and strength to see your dreams through to fruition. 
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« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2009, 09:33:04 AM »

It took me quite some time to rid myself of the anger towards my ex, and towards myself for having accepted less than what I deserve out of a marriage/relationship.  I now live in a house bought during the relationship, do I curse the home for it's part in the hurt, do I hate the place due to the demise of the marriage, of course not...if anything good came out of this marriage, it is the fact that now my children and I have a home, that is ours, something I dared not dream of many years ago.

I have re-evaluated my life, my relationships, my friendships and although I do still have those in my life that are "just not right for me", I am able to limit my exposure to them and control my reactions to them.

I think some waste so much time and energy in life with negative emotions...what a very sad waste of time/energy ... when there is so much life out there to experience and enjoy.  Lessons can be learned from every interaction we have and if we could just each take what good we find and hold onto that rather than the negative...we could indeed make OUR world a better place.

To destroy what we once built is hurtful not only to those who may seek shelter inside it's walls, it is in fact hurful to us because it negates all the work we put into it's building...

Finding all the positives we can in our own lives and keeping our focus there, does not allow the time to find the negatives elsewhere.

Thanks for this post Quick, an excellent reminder.

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.” - Paulo Cohelo
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« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2009, 09:33:38 AM »

As always, PDQ

Yeah, there comes a time when I have to release the hurt and stand alone and be okay with who I am, first.  Once the bonds are permanently cut and after the hurts and harm have been purged, I have to take the responsibilty to stop reliving them, carry the gifts of wisdom I've acquired from it all, and to place myself in, "just isn't right for me."

I don't want to carry the connection to pain into the rest of my life with me and pollute the world around me with it.  I have no kids so I'm free to choose this, now.

Thanks for this.  I'll carry it with me.

Peace, UFH
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« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2009, 09:37:34 AM »

PD, I agree with so much of what you suggest here.  What it takes is "emotional growth", ironically the very thing we so often tried to get our BPD to accept what was needed too.

So much of my own struggle was rooted in my own insecurities.  The "little child" in me wanted to "lash out" just as the BPD had repeatedly done to me.  This same "wounded child" in me, wanted to see her "hurting" for the hurt she caused me.  The healing process requires us to reach a level of "emotional acceptance and growth", before we can truly "let-go", accept it all as "it is what it is", and move ahead in life.

We all know the "right answers" when it comes to "moving on" and what we should do, but as "Morpheous" from the movie "Matrix" suggested:

"there is a difference between knowing the path and walking the path"...Walking the path is really what promotes our own growth, as difficult as that can be.

Peace
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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2009, 09:50:49 AM »



Idea

Dammit...I'm still looking for validation from someone I don't want in my life.  The reason what she does affects me is because I'm still not okay with me.

Way to make a feller think.

I feel frustrated but empowered.

Thanks again, UFH

Addendum:

Rewording...

The reason I ALLOW what she does to affect me...the reason I ALLOWED myself to self-re-engagement...is because I'm not yet okay with me and still seeking masochistic validation by asking other people about how messed-up SHE is.

Okay...who's messed-up here?

Hi.
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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2009, 09:56:00 AM »

When we love, why do we do so with stipulations? Isnt it better to give unconditionally, that to give with strings? Isnt that what we get upset with others for doing?

When a break-up occurs, why do we not want them to be happy, or not want them to have someone else? Why do we want to take the things we have given, and destroy them, so that noone is free to enjoy the fruits of our love? Just because the relationship didnt last, does that mean it was all in vain? Did we not learn anything, feel anything, or grow as an individual?

If we ultimately decide that it isnt right for us, why do we insist that it shouldnt be right for others?

Its an interesting series of questions to ask ourselves. It will provide alot of answers into what makes us unhappy with ourselves, rather than trying to place the blame on someone, or something else. After all, nothing hurts us unless we allow it.
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2009, 10:06:05 AM »



I still have a challenge with that whole unconditional love thing.

I have conditions by which a person will get the expression of my love.

Conditions:  Don't treat me like crap.  Don't hit me.  Don't lie and betray my fidelity. Don't rip me off.  Don't treat others like crap, hit them, lie, rip them off...things like that.

Somewhere inside of me there is something other than hurt and anger for this person but i have yet to identify...or even connect with, what that really is.  Love...or pity?

I do want her to be happy.  I just don't "want" her to take out her stuff on another human being as she did with me.  How do I know she will?  Nothing in the way she moves (a revision of the Beatles song) say anything different.

Oh well...not my problem anymore.

hmmm...just being honest
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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2009, 10:08:54 AM »

It's okay to be disappointed, feel let down, and declare our hurt.  But how we harness those kind of feelings and channel them is the ultimate key to our evolutionary growth.

Out of all the struggles with my situation, one of the hardest things I had to quietly reconcile was how my ex BPD husband demonized me (and he left me!).  I vowed never to get on board with that kind of thinking, although, I had every right to do so. And quite frankly, I was too busy licking my wounds to spend my time being angry and hostile to even act out.

I use to say to my ex, "it's okay that you fell out of love with me but it is not okay for you to fall into hate with me."

So...I never was one to kick the sandcastle down, I was always one of those types of people who used up way too much energy to preserve it, thought it should be a sacred shrine.  How was I to know there were more sandcastles to build?
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2009, 10:15:26 AM »

I use to say to my ex, "it's okay that you fell out of love with me but it is not okay for you to fall into hate with me."

 How was I to know there were more sandcastles to build?

Perfect...thank you
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« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2009, 10:23:40 AM »

Excerpt
I never was one to kick the sandcastle down, I was always one of those types of people who used up way too much energy to preserve it, thought it should be a sacred shrine.  How was I to know there were more sandcastles to build?

Love this.

Me too.

Crys
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« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2009, 10:24:09 AM »

Somewhere inside of me there is something other than hurt and anger for this person but i have yet to identify...or even connect with, what that really is.  Love...or pity?

OK UFH, Ill take a stab at that, being that I have already solved that in my own mind, regarding my own situation.

What I had was a hope, a false need, in my own mind, that she would eventually become 100% the woman that I liked 25% of the time. It was my hopes that she would become someone I needed her to be, rather than accepting her as she was. I thought of her as two different people, one that I loved, and one that I loathed. I wanted the woman I loved. What I failed to realize is that she is one entity, and inside that entity I drew the line, and seperated her into my likes and dislikes. It wasnt that I loved half of her, abd hated half of her, I wanted the half I loved, and wanted to discard the other half.

It was my internal struggle that kept me from accepting that she is who she is, and what she was was... not right for me as an entirety, but right for me in pieces.
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« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2009, 10:32:17 AM »



Yep.

Nailed it, PDQ.

It's not the first time this has resonated with me, either and I believe it was also you who had said this to me before.

Maybe this time I'll get it.

Obviously, I'm having a tough day. 

Just...thank you.

Another Addendum...Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

What I had was a hope, a false need, in my own mind, that she would eventually become 100% the woman that I liked 25% of the time.

Aye...there's the rub.

"Right for me in pieces" is still a pretty bitter fruit to chew but I'll be chewing it...slowly...cuz I know it's true...and I want to deny it.

~laughs~

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« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2009, 10:40:05 AM »

We are all human UFH, and we are driven by our fears. My fear was that I would never find that Ms Right, so I felt I had to make one for myself. It is only in my trial and error there that I realized, being that noone can change me from my core of who I am, I have no expectations of changing anyone else from the core of who they are.

I accept all people for who they are, and instead of trying to place them where I want them to fit in my life, I allow them to find where they want to be in my life, and feel thankful for them.

There is nothing but disappointment in being handed a rubiks cube, and tying a string to it, because its a yo yo that I want so bad.
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« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2009, 10:54:45 AM »

I accept all people for who they are, and instead of trying to place them where I want them to fit in my life, I allow them to find where they want to be in my life, and feel thankful for them.

There is nothing but disappointment in being handed a rubiks cube, and tying a string to it, because its a yo yo that I want so bad.

I used to think it was a control issue and she was all too happy to reinforce that and true enough some things about my part were very controlling (surviving).  It was also that false hope and non-acceptance...wanting the Rubiks, yo-yo.

I feel a better direction here...now.

This helps allot...radical acceptance indeed.

Time to go to work.

Thank you all.

Peace, UFH
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« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2009, 10:51:44 PM »



Been thinkin' about this thread all day. 

I can't make anyone more right or wrong or make what "is" anymore "is" by hanging on to my toxic feelings.  I can only make myself more bitter and I don't want that for my life.  It's actually pretty scary to consider that I'm allowed to choose a bitter life and nothing outside of myself will magically stop me from doing that.  It's even more frightening to consider that I can choose it and pollute other lives with it in the same insidious ways I would allow it in my own life...mindlessly, selfishly, and irresponsibly...and I don't want that.

It is heartbreaking...and I think this will be the first time I will articulate in font or out loud...

I'm heartbroken.

That's it and there doesn't need to be any more blame to make it any less broken.

Finally...I'm weeping.

back... ...My cat needed comforting...lord.  I'm crying and laughing at my darn cat at the same time.

I've realized today that it has been my attachment to the pain that I have clung to in order to keep me attached to her...my illusion of hope...false hope...not acceptance.

To accept this means I have to say goodbye.

I've filed the papers and set the boundaries but I haven't said goodbye.

Scuse me...more weeping.

I don't care if it takes all night I'm gonna finish this post.

Dear W,

We've been through some wild rides haven't we?  We haven't tried so hard to make anything work as much as we did with each other...didn't we.  Some of our life together was good.  Some of what we shared with each other was good.  I mean, it can be hard to look back through all our struggles to try to find the good things but we both know they were there...don't we.  Just not enough of them for either of us.  I want good things for you.

It doesn't mean that you're not enough or I'm not enough...it's just that together, we couldn't create enough...good.  We just weren't right for each other.  Some friends helped me to understand how, hanging on to my hurt and blame was my way of hanging on to you...but not you.  I was hanging on to someone I needed you to be and wasn't able to accept you as you are.  I'm sorry and I hope that you can find someone who can.  I want your happiness.

I want to thank you, W for the gifts that you brought to my life and I want you to know that they will always be a part of me.  If I hadn't known you...if I hadn't loved you...I wouldn't have them as they could not have come from anyone else.  I hope that may mean something to you someday.  It does to me.

I also want you to know that nothing about letting go of you has been easy...it's been really hard...it still is.  That's just to say how much you have meant to me...how much I have loved you.

You once said something to me about just needing to "find your way," and I want you to know that with all of my heart...nothing less, I hope that you find it.

I'm letting go of you now, sweetheart.  Please take the best of care for yourself.  You deserve nothing less.

Goodbye.

Love, P

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« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2009, 11:51:42 PM »

UFH- Your post made me cry while I read it.

I have been thinking about this thread tonight, and I know that I (and all of us) need to get to this place.  I'm not quite there, but feel I'm on my way.  I have anger still, not that we aren't together, but for the other verbal abuse/ devaluing/awful mean things that were said and done that would just break my heart.  Each day, it seems to lighten up and the anger comes and goes.

Which leads me to myself for a minute.  My heart is broken, and I think I have put his behavior and figuring it out before working on mending and healing myself.

Your letter you wrote and your post was just moving, thank you.  xoxox

B
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« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2009, 06:24:36 AM »

I couldnt be more proud to read a post in my 2 years of being here. Im really glad to read that as I sit here, on this beautiful morning, drinking a cup of coffee. UFH, I am humbled.  xoxox


The behavior in these relationships is often referred to as a dance. In mine, I felt terribly unaccepted as a person, because she always was wanting me to be who I wasnt. I am not a morning person, and take a while to get going. She jumps right out of bed like someone wound her up while she slept. She hit the floor runnng, I just hit the floor, and stopped.  Smiling (click to insert in post) She, in her frustration, tried to make me a morning person, and I, in mine, tried to make her more like a snail crawling across a floor covered in molasses. This is just a trivial example of some of the many things.

She tried to get me to love her in the way she needed to be loved, which I thought was kinda ridiculous, because of the way I needed to be loved, and the two were vastly different. I would get so frustrated with her in my frustration, that I would yell and scream when provoked by her, just because I wanted to be heard, and I needed her to love me. I looked at her behavior as abuse, but I did the same thing under the guise of validation. She felt the same way I did, invalidated, unloved in the ways she needed, and misunderstood. They only true differences between her and I is that I gave everything, even more than I had, and I never got physical with her. She took everything, and when she didnt get what she wanted, the physicality started quickly. It was here way of securing what she needed out of me, and to be totally honest, I taught her that if she did that, she would get it. So, physical abuse became just a tool for her to get what she needed from me.

She in her actions, and me in my actions were the same in intent. We were both trying to get what we needed out of each other. Neither one of us accepted the other for their strengths and weaknesses. I sliced a part of her persona, and wanted it all of the time, and she wanted a part of me all the time. We danced. We danced well. We danced for 13 years.

At some point, early on in the relationship, a shift happened. I have to say, it happened inside of me. I went from trying to get my needs met from a person, to trying to make a person meet my needs. Seems like a simple wordplay, but in all reality, it is a huge difference. Instead of looking for someone with the capacity of meeting my needs, I took a person incapable of meeting them, and tried to force them to be the person she wasnt. Thats all on me folks. My bad. Each time a fight erupted, I was more focused on getting her to meet my needs than actually having them met. I tollerated terrible things on a quest to acheive that. I tollerated it, because I had a goal, I was going to transform her into that person I so desperately wanted.

I was a treasure hunter, on a beach with a shovel. I actually knew that many had been there before me, but I was going to find gold in that sand dune, whether or not it was there. I dug and I dug, and with each push into the sand of my shovel, I got more frustrated. Eventually, I was standing in a deep hole, still without my precious gold. This is the personification of stupidity.

Now, Im out of that hole, and I am actively looking for where my treasure chest is. Im not going to dig, just to dig, and hope I get lucky. I realize that I am worth more than just breaking my back out in the hot sun, digging for something that isnt there. I dont blame the mountain for not having the gold, because that mountain has other purpose in life, and should be adored for the beauty it holds, not the beauty I want. One day, I will put the shovel to the ground again, and I will dig for what it is I need. Only this time, I will have reasonable knowledge that it exists below the surface. If I dig, and its not there, I took a chance, and will appreciate that spot for allowing me to try to find the things I yearn to find. It isnt that the spot is wrong, its that the spot is just...not right for me.
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« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2009, 07:50:34 AM »

UFH, your letter is amazing. I'm crying with bkay. I could feel your love for your ex from that letter. That's how we - nons - love. That's how we deserve to be loved in return, isn't it? This board gives me so much hope that there really are good, good people out there, with so much to give. Between UFH, and PDQuick - there is so much insightfulness. I'm truly touched by this thread. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

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« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2009, 09:44:27 AM »



Thank you for this thread PDQ (I deepy identify with your last post too) and thank you for your participation, everyone.  Thank you for bpdfamily.com...thank you bpdfamily.com.  I'm healing in ways that are both so new and profound to me.

These changes that are happening in me could not have happened any other way.

Through the pain we all share lie the gifts we can give and receive from our collective experience, compassion, each other, and former SO's.  I have received so many of them here.

I am truly humbled...and healing.

Just...thank you.

Love, UFH

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« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2009, 10:04:14 AM »

Thank you for this thread PDQ (I deepy identify with your last post too) and thank you for your participation, everyone.  Thank you for bpdfamily.com...thank you bpdfamily.com.  I'm healing in ways that are both so new and profound to me.

These changes that are happening in me could not have happened any other way.

Through the pain we all share lie the gifts we can give and receive from our collective experience, compassion, each other, and former SO's.  I have received so many of them here.

I am truly humbled...and healing.

Just...thank you.

Love, UFH

bpdfamily.com is truly a remarkable forum.  I could not agree more with your sentiments UFH.

I am glad you have had that shift in thinking where the cloud is being lifted from around you and you are experiencing "your" awakening.

None of us can do that, experience the gift of our own awakenings, if we are entrenched in bitterness and ill will.  It takes up too much energy and distracts us from our real focus, ourselves.

There are many things that are simply "just not right" with this disorder or even the person behind the disorder, we don't have to be one of them.   
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« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2009, 09:58:48 PM »



Thank you, OFO

This surrender...truly is an awakening and it is indeed my own...no other way to do it but "own it."

Ever since my first post in this forum, I was gently guided to look within and by those here who have the evidence of recovery.  I need recovery.  It's not just a want...it's a need as much as air or water is to my physical form. 

Everyone needs to vent, I understand that and I have vented as much as anyone here.  It's a way of discovery.  It's a way of connecting when I have felt so alone and without answers.  It has been a way to understand that I was not...am not alone in my confusion.  But it's not a place to stay.

As long as I keep participating in something that just isn't right for me, I'll never be right for anyone...not even myself.  As long as I stay in blame, I'll never see nor allow myself the opportunity to grow beyond the hurt and anger enough to simply say, I have a broken heart.

I've learned that defenses are a natural part, and even sometimes an essential part of survival but it took the gifts of my former wife along with the gifts that I have received here to get in touch with that most essential vulnerability.

In this thread initiated by PDQ and through every ones input I've learned how to take all the blame out and simply say...it hurts.  I've been able to understand how I have clung to false hopes and how I have also tried to make her "my needs" from that 25% place.  I have come to understand my own non-acceptance of her and also my own non-acceptance of myself and I can now re-accept in honest self appraisal.

Most of all...I learned how to lovingly say, goodbye.

So now I can grieve...so now I can grow and maybe someday I can bring the better parts of myself and what I am learning to someone and be an asset to her life.  Only by letting go and accepting everyone as we are do I have a chance for this...and I want that chance.  I want it from this place of life with all the things I'm learning and re-gaining that could have happened no other way.  I  needed to change.  I need this...change.

In the interim, maybe I can help someone here find their path to freedom too.  I would like that.

All things in time.

There's allot to be said for being in the right place at the right time.

I'm exactly where I need to be...right now.

Peace, love and blessings, UFH

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« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2009, 09:26:19 AM »

Wonderful post UFH.  Thank you for sharing...

Peace
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« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2009, 10:36:09 AM »



And thank you arjay.   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2009, 11:03:09 AM »

There is a liberrating feeling knowing that things dont have to have a blame attatched to them, just that they have affected us. We can feel emotion without pointing the fingers at someone, and in focusing on that feeling, we are able to figure things out about ourselveves, rather than focusing on something, or someone else because we want to distract ourselves from the initial feelings.

Im sure someone, somewhere, when hit by another person, instead of getting angry at the person hitting them, thought to themselves, "that hurt, I wonder why?"

Emotionally, we should all do the same things, and learn more about ourselves, because it will give us a better understanding of who we are, and what we ultimately want out of life. As I have started this process of thinking, I have figured out that the emotional hurts I have sustained arent so much about who hurt me, but more about fears deep inside myself.

Then, comes the realization that I have kept myself out of alot of things because I was afraid of certain things, like rejection. The fear of rejection kept me from meeting people, and once I did meet someone, It kept me in a toxic relationship, because I feared that I would never have anyone, simply because I was afraid to go meet people out of my own fears.

As I was just telling a dear friend of mine, if you want something in life, seek it out. Do the work, because it takes less time seeking, than it does waiting for the things to fall in your lap. If there is a fear in the way of this seeking process, deal with it head on, and go about your journey. Life is for those who do, not those who wait. Placing blame, distracting, and not looking to yourself are ways of waiting. Accept who you are, seek what you want, and never give into a fear, for it stands in the way of who you want to be.
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« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2009, 08:52:52 PM »

I have tried several times to write a response to this thread, failing each time to express what I was trying to say.  So, just let me say, thank you for this thread and for all the posts and thoughts.
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« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2009, 09:55:56 PM »



I've sustained my whole existence in my former marriage, after the idealization phase, on fear of rejection and instead of saying, "that hurt, I wonder why?" it was about, "that hurt, knock it off."  The difference between the two is so vast and resonates so deeply with me now.

One is looking inward for answers that bring better understanding of what makes me who I am and the things I can do about what doesn't work in me.

The other is looking outward for an immediate solution to something that I cannot control.

Is the eventuality of looking inward like this a path to becoming more empathetic, more validating, more accepting of what simply "is" and making better choices not only for me, but for the people that I love as well?

It certainly seems so.  Yes indeed it does as I follow the stream of this truth in my heart...indeed it does.

I'm reminded of a story here...


Two monks were walking down a path one day in silence when they came upon a well dressed lady standing before a mud puddle across the entire road.  It was obvious to them that the lady didn't wish to soil her fine garments by attempting to cross the mud puddle on her own so one of the monks offered to lift her and carry her across.

The lady accepted and the monk obliged while his brother followed behind.  Once on the other side of the puddle the monk set her down, she thanked him, and all went on their own way.

About 5 hours later, the brother monk spoke and asked the question, "Brother, you broke your silence to ask that woman if you could assist her across the puddle so that she wouldn’t soil her worldly attachment to her clothing.  Aren't we, as monks supposed to give no regard to such trivial matters?"

The monk responded, "I set her down 5 hours ago.  Why are you still carrying her?"


Peace, UFH

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« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2009, 08:04:59 AM »

Excerpt
At some point, early on in the relationship, a shift happened. I have to say, it happened inside of me. I went from trying to get my needs met from a person, to trying to make a person meet my needs. Seems like a simple wordplay, but in all reality, it is a huge difference. Instead of looking for someone with the capacity of meeting my needs, I took a person incapable of meeting them, and tried to force them to be the person she wasnt. Thats all on me folks. My bad. Each time a fight erupted, I was more focused on getting her to meet my needs than actually having them met. I tollerated terrible things on a quest to acheive that. I tollerated it, because I had a goal, I was going to transform her into that person I so desperately wanted.

Hi PDQ.  You said something similar in the control thread a while back.  I'm not sure I entirely understand.  Were you aware you were trying to do this at the outset?  I've thought of the situation as more of an awareness problem, rather than a control problem.  We have a perception of who someone is and have difficulty reconciling various behaviors with that image.  When there are deviations over time, we ignore, we cajole, we argue, etc. . . maintaining that image.  It then becomes fractured. . . good spouse, bad spouse, rather than a coherent whole.  Oddly enough, that seems to mirror the splitting mentality of the BPD.  So, perhaps, I should say it became fractured for me.  I saw my ex-wife as almost two personalities (a good and a bad).  I saw the good personality as the real her (the one that met my needs, so I thought) and the bad as some sort of stress-induced anomaly.  Over time, in the dance, that anomaly became more and more present and severe.  The split was a device, a method of maintaining the relationship.  Without it, I probably could have ended the dance much earlier.  In my own recollection, I could conceptualize my behaviors the way you have, as an attempt to make someone meet my needs.  But, I don't think I had enough awareness to understand the nature of the dance, while dancing (also about 13 years).  Did you know what you were trying to do?   


Btw, I think the premise of this thread is excellent. 
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« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2009, 08:27:57 AM »

I had no idea what I was doing. It was in that ignorance that it kept going.

When a relationship starts out, it progresses because the person in front of us is meeting our needs. It is a fact that as we progress, if our needs are getting met, we become closer to the person. It the nature of the relationship. With that being said, she turned around and started doing things that didnt meet my needs, but were rather against what I wanted and needed in a mate. Instead of seeing that with a clear vision, my mind drifted back to the woman that she was just before the shift, when she was meeting my needs. I wanted her back, not the woman that stood before me. I made that split, it was my twisted thinking.

We tend to see these disordered people as two entities, and that is our own fault. The ":)esireable" entity entices us, and lures us in. Its the entity that we fall in love with, and ultimately bond ourselves to. Once that disappears, and the other entity takes over, it is our processing of that which gets us into trouble. We dont look at them and think to ourselves "Hey, I am not liking what is happening here, and I am not getting what I need out of it" and gradually detatch from the relationship, we think "what happened to the person I bonded with, I want her back," and we start the process of trying to resurrect the previous entity. In doing so, our only tools in doing that are control, and denial. We try desperately to contol the person into being the person we bonded with, and in our frustration of that not happening, we not only mourn the loss of the person, and the relationship, we tend to view ourselves as failures of the mission, and our self esteem gets tanked along with it in the process.

The dynamic is one of a disordered one on the opposite side. They arent "whole" people, who tend to act the same way. They have no true sense of self, so their morals, behaviors, and actions will differ greatly depending on their immediate need. There is no concrete personality, only on that rises and falls, and floats on the river of need. If their need changes, so does their personality. Its quite simple if you really think about it.

Where we get into trouble, is we expect the person we bonded with to be the concrete person. We use that as a slide rule on calculating their future actions, thoughts, and behaviors. Thats where the division occurs. As we now know, there is not concrete, just floatability.

When we are hit with this division, most of us try to tether them to the person we bonded with, and we "want." We try to get them back to the person we want, but the river has changed direction, and the tides have fallen, and they have floated off on a raft of their own needs.

It is us who are to blame for our own tethering, because we cant either see, nor accept the dynamics of the person we bond with. In our own fear of losing the person, and the relationship, we try to hang onto them, and we HAVE to control them to be the person WE WANT them to be. That is where I said that I was trying desperately to get HER to meet my needs, rather than trying to have my needs met. There is a huge difference in the two. I cant make anyone in the world meet my needs, but what I can do is embrace those that do, and discharge those that dont. In my past relationship, I now know that I did neither of the two. I tried in vain to get control a person to meet my needs rather than accept that she once did, and now has chosen not to.
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