I haven't been called a narcissist (yet), but I've been called emotionally abusive, a neglectful parent, etc. In general, my xwBPD likes to accuse me of all the things she has been over the years. I guess it's that whole projection thing.

I think most people here probably ask themselves if maybe they have BPD/NPD -- and the act of asking themselves that likely rules it out.

Sorry you're having to go through this.

Sounds like a tough situation, but it seems like you are doing everything you can to look out for your child. So credit to you.

I don't have advice, but I can tell you that my older child (14) already wants to spend majority time with me and minimal time with my xwBPD. Once children get into the teen years and start to develop agency and a stronger sense of self, they become more aware of the distortions, emotional instability and general insanity of living with a parent with BPD. My older child also spends a lot of time at friends' homes, so he sees what functioning parents are like and is able to make that comparison.

So as your child gets older and develops more independence and their own social network, they may realize how dysfunctional the other parent is and began to emotionally or even physically distance themselves. (I'm not sure what it's like where you live, but in my area the courts will generally respect the wishes of a child over 12 when it comes to parenting time and where they want to be.)

Thanks for sharing the reading list. I've read Raising Resilient Children and Stop Walking on Eggshells and found them quite useful. Do you think any of them would be appropriate for a 14-year-old? I've been wanting to find something my child could read but haven't had any luck so far.

Ahhh, thank you for responding. Definitely feels like projecting her internal attributes onto me. “Accusations can be confessions….” Is a  perfect way of putting it!!!

Hi Justdrive and welcome back 

My H's kids' mom has many BPD-type traits, and is married to a guy with many NPD-type traits. Mom seems to struggle with identity via getting caught up in sociopolitical "causes du jour". It is not surprising to me that a person with a weak or lacking sense of self and continuity would try to find external sources of selfhood and would sort of hop through them without a sense of "gee, but wasn't I ________ last week"? So we have walked the path you are on. Yes, identity struggles/exploration began for both of H's kids around age 11-ish. It has been difficult and has stretched H and I quite a bit, for similar reasons: from our perspectives, it appeared that the kids were parroting Mom, but they weren't going to hear that from us.

Minor children, whether they can articulate it or not, seem to experience a "life and death" feeling of dependence on parents -- this is normal. Kids may not be able to describe why they do what they do, but they are so resourceful at getting needs met in unusual ways, including the most basic needs to feel accepted and cared for and "in the tribe". So again, it's not surprising to me that your D11 is "team Mom" in terms of interests -- D11 is being resourceful about getting attention and support.

I think you're right that 11 is young and that the coming years, especially how you interact with D11 (likely more so than exactly what you say), can make a big difference in how D11 sorts out who she is, and that there may not be anything legally actionable about the situation right now, despite the effect it is having on D11.

My H's kids are now 16 and 18 but for many years (like >10) I truly thought that SD18 would always be "team Mom and Stepdad". She began hitting her limit over the last couple of years, culminating in sharing some stuff with H and I a few weeks ago that were reportable and resulted in a CPS call and investigation. She never wants to have a relationship with Stepdad again but is struggling with deeply wanting her mom to love her. SD18 is at the point that she can call Mom's household abusive, and recognize that she wants long term therapy for herself, but she isn't quite at the inflection point of putting together the pieces of "oh, I felt really alienated from my body for all those years, and it isn't necessarily because I'm [insert identity here], but maybe because of my FOO issues". SD18 is still committed to wanting to transition and take hormones, and has a SO who is also a female who wishes to transition and take hormones. Being able to speak into that situation will require more deposits into the trust bank before making the withdrawal of asking her to hear some thoughts from H and I, but we have worked hard to be nonreactive, to listen genuinely, to not take things personally, to stay calm, and to focus on problemsolving, for many years, and it has built a foundation of trust.

She's an adult so the choices are in her lap, and I don't control her choices. My hope would be that she would be willing to consider the role and contribution of FOO dynamics into her self-experience, and explore that in therapy, before making permanent choices to change her body. I wouldn't be telling her why she feels what she feels, or that I have any say over her decisions, just hoping she would be willing to hear that perspective and treat it with respect.

SD16, too, wishes to make permanent changes to her body. I am working on empathy and compassion (after all, if I had to live with Stepdad, I'd want to permanently change parts of my body, too  ) and keeping in mind that she is 16 and may change her mind many times. I work on not reacting in big ways when she says "I plan to get _______ surgery" -- trying not to feed that with attention -- but not shooting it down, arguing with her, explaining why she's wrong, etc. I try to find parallel examples of working through/with body issues that are not so third-rail (I had an eating disorder as a teen, so I try to be open about that). Ultimately, though, where H and I have had to land is that we do not have control over what the kids choose to do with their bodies, and all we can do is keep loving them as they struggle to work with their pain.

All that to say, my thoughts in regards to your questions are:


If D11's mom is like H's kids' mom, she might escalate in psychologically manipulative ways if/when status quo is threatened or if/when more 3rd parties get eyes on the situation. You do seem to have a pretty good structure in place right now, with 50/50, good relationship with D11, and therapists involved.

When I made the CPS call the other week, it did feel like "this was my one shot" -- I'd held back for a while but it finally became abundantly clear that the escalation was needed and I was kind of backed into a corner. So my thought is that sometimes, if you aren't sure about changing status quo, that can be a sign that it isn't needed yet, and when it is needed, it can be pretty clear, not ambiguous. Maybe it'd be a good exercise to get down on paper what your "lines in the sand" are, or what situations might come up that you feel you can handle via conversation between you and D11, and what situations are beyond that.

If you have/had a lawyer, consider checking in with your L about what counts as "change of circumstances" in your area.


Lots of spending time focusing on shared interests, not identities. Praising the kids for diligence, helpfulness, kindness, etc, versus praise for any kind of sociopolitical involvement. Modeling doing sacrificial things to help the community (giving time/money/items), versus superficial "help" ("I wore a bracelet", "I put a sign in the window") that costs us nothing. Non-shaming responses when the kids bring up something they don't know much about (not "how could you not know Detail about Issue X", but "that's cool you're thinking about Issue X... lots of people don't know that actually, ______").

Lots and lots of parallel discussion versus hitting the issue head-on. SD16 especially is sensitive to confrontation and just shuts down -- we have to try to approach hot button issues kind of from the side. We have really pulled back from any kind of long lecturing -- she just is gone. It has to be small doses with her.

I truly hate social media but have worked hard to not get reactive about that with the kids. SD16 especially spends a lot of time on apps (Mom bought the phone, we did not have any say) so I try to cultivate an attitude of curiosity: "So how does it work to put a video on tik tok -- what do you do first", or "Wow, you almost have X number of followers, are you going to do anything to celebrate", or "any new favorite instagram reels, I'd love to see them", or "so how do you play that game on the discord server, I have no idea how".

Keeping the kids talking about their lives and interests, whatever I think about it, has been key. I try to find ways to support both of them with their interests that I can do while keeping my integrity. SD16 has an interest that I really don't like, but part of it involves sewing, so I do feel like I can meet her there and focus on how skilled she is at sewing.

I think our ratio of non-reactive listening to laying down the law has probably been something like 50:1. Lots of deposits in the "trust and listening" bank, few withdrawals.

Keep yourself grounded in remembering what it was like to be a teen/preteen. Maybe it's different for boys, but for girls, there's a big drive to be accepted and in a peer group, so she may be picking up various interests not only due to Mom, but also due to peers. Find ways to have some neutral discussions about those things with her, maybe raising a question at the end, but not intense: "Wow, tell me more about the crystals... what do you like about them? What do people say they do? OK, so you put that one in the corner, and that one by your bed -- is that how it works? What do you hope will happen?... How do people know if it worked or not?"

Really be clear to yourself about your hill(s) to die on. For us, SD16 also went through a crystals phase, and I have friends with 12 year olds also going through that phase. We definitely let that one go, though each family is different. We did "die on a hill" with clothing twice; once, SD18 (at 15) wanted to wear just her bra down to the local skate park. That got a No, and she was so mad (obviously we were prudes who were embarrassed of bodies and trying to control her). The other time was an international trip, where we said No, you cannot bring clothing with obscene, profane, anti-religious, or military markings. That went better. When it's a real safety issue we will "die on that hill"; when it isn't, we've had to let a lot go. SD16 is currently in a "punk" phase and wears many patches with offensive phrases. We are working hard not to make conflict over that a reason she won't spend time with us. I may try the "parallel" approach of "wow, if I heard someone say All ____ are ____, that just seems like making assumptions, and I know you hate it when people make assumptions about you", but it's hard to gauge.

Truly emotionally validating your D11 will be gold, as will the counterpart of stopping being invalidating, even inadvertently. Not sure if you've seen this book yet -- The Power of Validation (for parents) by Karyn D. Hall, PhD has been helpful for real-life scenarios.

...

Well, that was a lot! I should wrap this up. Feel free to click through my old posts; we've "been there done that" on the teen identity journey, too.

It sounds like D11 is cooperative about the parenting schedule (i.e., not saying things like "can't I just go back to Mom's", or threatening to walk away, etc)?

This is very common. I have been called a narcissist, I had a private session with the couples therapist. She told me I was 100% not as I was asking questions, and taking responsibilities for things I did wrong. She said a narcissist will not take responsibility, or question themselves. They are always right. Their truth is the absolute truth. Which ironically or not is how my wife is..

Remember accusations can be confessions with BPD/NPD.

Don’t tell her there is no baby, talk about things that help her to possibly realize it herself (hopefully).

Dear Gigi213,

This is heartbreaking, I’m sure you realize that she needs help. Is there anyone you think she could talk with or you perhaps?
I don’t think you should go against her ‘delusion’, because she may in fact think it’s real. I fear for her own safety, and definitely believe that she needs to be in a safe situation where she can be properly assessed and treated.

The question is how to go about it. If possible, I think you or someone she would talk with should go to her, she’s calling out in pain. Talk with her about her feelings, and maybe help her to realize that there is not a baby, and calmly take her to get ice cream or something  and take her to a prearranged facility. This might be someplace you get referred to after meeting with a professional about the situation. You might be able to go to a hospital and meet with a case worker who can help.

She needs help, not punishment.

Wishing you the best and praying for you both.

Good day, everyone. It's been a few years since I posted, but I've checked in at times over the years when issues have come up that I needed to research. I'm now asking for some perspective.

Recap: Divorced my ex-wife with quiet BPD traits in 2020. We have a daughter who is now almost 11. 50/50 custody, following a schedule that splits the week down the middle.

Current problem: Over time, I have realized that my ex uses our daughter as a prop to gain positive attention and perhaps to secure attachment to the ex's SO du jour. For example, whatever hobby or interest the SO has, D11 is expected to participate/show interest. When SO was into animals.... D11 wanted to be a big cat rescue habitat employee. When SO was LGBTQIA2+.... D11 was nonbinary.  Current SO is into pagan practices... D11 comes home wearing crystals.

Currently D11 is back to not knowing what she wants to do when she grows up. When she is with me, she identifies as female but nonbinary when she's with her mom.

I worry that D11's own developing sense of self is at risk.....and I don't know how to protect her. Nothing has happened that I can bring to court to push for majority or sole custody.

I have worked towards establishing a therapeutic relationship between D11 and a local counselor. Right now she checks in every couple of months; therapist tells me that she is as well adjusted as any of her other clients. Therapist understands the concerns about BPD (she's my therapist too...) and the rest of D11's medical team is on board. So I at least have that in my corner. D11 and I have a strong relationship as well.

My library includes Understanding the Borderline Mother; Surviving a Borderline Parent; Walking on Eggshells; Search for the Real Self; Borderline, Narcissistic and Schizoid Adaptations*; Raising Resilient Children with a Borderline or Narcissistic Parent; and a few others, but I haven't found any answers that deal with this particular scenario.

1) Do I keep on with the status quo, hoping that the coming teenage years will help solidify D11's sense of self?
2) If not, aside from therapy visits and giving D11 space to be her own person when she is with me....what else can I do? What have you done that worked for you and your children?

Thank you for your time.
-Justdrive

*By the way, this was the best book I found when I was trying to research BPD post divorce. I got a lot out of it as a layperson. 5 of 5 stars, would recommend.

Anyone run into this? 

My ex who is off the charts BPD and has traits of covert narcissism herself, has decided to start a narrative about me (she has many false narratives about me) and say that I am a narcissist.

I did take a look at myself and wonder if any of it was correct. Why not?  But I just don’t see it and nor do those around me.

Just seems like yet another tactic by her to project onto me. Has anyone ended here encountered this?

We're talking about mental health and every situation is unique, so there are no steadfast answers.  With that said, some do remain friends after a breakup and sometimes they will get back together...then break up...then get back together again.  The problem is the mental health aspect itself that causes the chaos; it's not the relationship itself sometimes.  Disordered thinking is what's behind all of this and it's impossible to predict how/why some things happen.