I was blocked everywhere. The next day, she and her friend came to my house to discard me. Discarding is a team sport. Five years of friendship and relationship over in the blink of an eye. I pleaded, but she stood there with an empty stare and shook her head as her friend berated me. (Among other things: "You've been gaslighting her! You're done! Never contact her again! Have a nice life!") Then they were gone.

Like many people, I've put the pieces together as best I can after the event with as much confidence as speculation, rumination, and no accreditation can muster. Abandonment, engulfment, narcissistic defenses, and secondary psychopathy -- the whole shebang. I was invited in; I got too close; I met the abandoned inner child; and then I was "uninvited".

I have my own issues, of course -- people pleasing, low self-esteem, my own abandonment issues. I'm in therapy for the first time in my life, which bears richer fruit with every passing week.

93 days post-discard. 93 days No Contact. Some days still suck, but I've written myself a mantra for moving on, and I've memorized it.

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"I know what I’m worth. I know what I did, and I know what I didn’t do. I know that I was sincere in my heart. I know that I didn’t deserve to be met unenthusiastically after committing to her. I know that I didn’t deserve the push and pull behaviour that followed. I know that I didn’t deserve to be teased and devalued. I know that I didn’t deserve to be bullied on my own doorstep and humiliated. I know that I want a partner who can be intimate and talk into the night. I know that I want a partner I can fall asleep with in peace and security. I know that I want a partner who wants to see me and spend time with me. I know that I want a partner who can love me consistently. I know that I want a partner who works with me to solve problems privately. I know what I know, and that’s enough for me. The part that misses her is a young part of me. I need to talk to him, not her."
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Thanks for reading, and Happy Healing. 

Hello sbrmcd and a warm

You're truly not alone here; so many members have struggled with the blame, extended conflict, and circular arguments, too. So exhausting!

The first thing I thought of for your situation was our workshop on stopping circular arguments.

You aren't helped, she isn't helped, and your relationship isn't helped, when both of you engage in extended, unresolved (or unhealthily "resolved") conflict. Longer isn't better -- it can be damaging.

Effective communication with a pwBPD is often unintuitive; fortunately, we're here for you  to practice new approaches.

When you have a minute, I'd love to hear what stood out to you in the "circular arguments" workshop. Lots of good stuff there;

kells76

Just want to say from me, too -- glad you found us.

Like HurtAndTired shared, you're not alone in having to cope with escalating violence with a pwPD (person with a personality disorder -- diagnosed or not). These can be scary situations, so it's good you recognized that you wanted more support.

Just a few questions to get a better feel for your situation (details can matter in terms of the most effective and safest path forward):

*How long have the two of you been married?
*Do you have any kids? If so, how old are they, and has your W ever raged at/targeted them?
*Do you have any pets or animals in the house, and has your W ever raged at/targeted them?
*Do you work outside the home? Does your W?
*Have you stayed in touch with any of the "failed" counselors? Would any of them be able to work with you as an individual?

We recently had to call CPS about what my H's kids told us was going on at their mom's house (Mom has many BPD traits, Stepdad has many NPD traits). Their stepdad was raging, driving erratically, and throwing/breaking things while the kids were around. Things are kind of stable post-call, but very tense, and the investigation is still going on. All that to say -- we've been in a similar position as you.

These are such difficult circumstances, and I get where you're coming from of wanting more tools for when things escalate. I'll wait to hear more details from you, and you won't be alone here.

In the meantime, when you have a moment, you can check out our Domestic violence for men thread. Really important info and background in there.

Fill us in, whenever you get a chance;

kells76

... hit send too soon.

Was going to add, but sometimes the potential for conflict or a desire to avoid unpleasant conversations is more powerful than we'd like to admit.  And so we go down a path we later regret, having not confronted a problem when we should have... maybe on some level knowing that it would lead to the end of a relationship we were hoping would last longer. 

But - at least for me - having hope in such a situation showed a lack of maturity.  Life's too short to spend it hoping the other person wants the same things you do.

I think of a relationship I had more recently that went on far longer than it should have.

When we started to talk about living together and how to split expenses, she got really aggressive in shutting down my 60/40 proposal - uncharacteristically so - and it completely caught me off guard.  I wasn't prepared for that.  And we tabled the conversation and moved on.

But that was a HUUUUUUGE red flag, and a point that revealed to me how she would operate when she wasn't getting her way, and her sense of entitlement.  I shouldn't have let her squirm away from that outburst and should've really tried to nail her down.

Maintaining boundaries is perhaps the best advice here.

I've seen a few others note that point too about how manipulative people like to almost interrogate their potential partners. 

One challenge I've felt is how to recognize this sort of behavior when it happens. 

Too often I feel like I approach conversations with my proverbial "guard down."  And manipulative people sometimes know how to get you to relax and let your guard down, so that makes it extra challenging.

I hate to think one needs to be "always on" when dealing with other people, because that can be exhausting, but it's probably true in large part, especially when important discussions are happening.  You simply cannot afford to let things that trouble you go, ignore them or explain them away. 

Is this similar to how things played out the last time you attempted to leave?

Are you saying the narrative is: if it's treatable depression and perimenopause/hormones, then you should forgive her? (your wife's narrative).

That if this is true, then it's not an intractable personality issue?

38 pages is a lot. I would go through it with a therapist, and not alone.

If she apologized for physically abusing you and went to anger management classes, would that change things for you?

My ex did not make as much of an effort to keep the relationship together post-separation, but he did make attempts. If I did not agree with things he said to manipulate me back into old habits, his mask flew off quickly. I went from "you are the love of my life" to a "c&*t" in the span of 60 seconds. For saying "I can't imagine how you would treat me if you hated me."

I'm guessing your spouse is testing your limits not only out of desperation but also because she believes these new boundaries can be overcome.

Hello! Both me and my partner are young men (I'm a couple years older). I'm in the process of trying to figure out how to deal with his BPD episodes and I saw that validation is essential, but I struggle to understand how to apply it.

My problem is, sometimes he will get upset about something I did, and he will accuse me of things that are not true. If he will not accuse me, he will at least bring up things I have done in the past and talk badly about me which is still triggering to me.

I can not recall any example right now because all the arguments are wearing me down a lot and I struggle to remember anything, which if I told him this he would start saying things like "how convenient". I really don't think he believes me.

So, I read that validation can help, but I don't totally understand it:

Given this example I just gave, if I had to re-approach him and instead of defending myself when he accuses me of lying, I say something validating such as "that would be very upsetting if your partner lied to you by saying he's just not remembering", then:

1. Would I just ignore my feelings if I am upset about him falsely accusing me?
2. I really really would be lost as to what to do after validating his feelings. Let's say he says "yeah that would really suck" then what?
3. I'm afraid he would say I'm being unhelpful by just mirroring what he says, he did that in the past. When he's in these moods, he wants change or an apology from me. Maybe I'm doing validation wrong?
4. I'm afraid that if I validate him, then he'll get angrier and angrier with me. If I tell him something like "yeah it would really suck if your partner would go behind your back to cheat on you", I'm afraid he would take it the wrong way and actually get even more scared or think I'm actually cheating on him.

I'm really not good with emotions, and as I'm writing this I'm burned out. The arguments have escalated so much the past days... I had a bad anger outburst myself because he wanted me to reassure him, while I kept telling him that I am burned out and I need time and space, all he was worried about was himself and wanting reassurance which just made me explode at one point. I regret how I acted and I regret making him feel guilty.

Thank you for reading! <3

I need a little help. I know what’s happening. I’m getting g sucked into a sense obligation. Help me
To ensure I don’t make it healthy choices.

My wife is on me to see that all that PLEASE READ was her depression.
After refusing help and telling me it was me she on HRT and actively managing that. After refusing meds and meds hat Ritalin wasn’t an issue she’s off Ritalin on a high dose of Wellbutrin.  She says she’s written me 38 pages of answers to questions I’ve asked angrily such as how would I go to therapy with you when you aren’t accountable for physically abusing me, deny you have an anger management problem, criticized me for (list of some pretty awful PLEASE READ).

The HRT and meds are working. There are longer flashes of the person I fell for. But then there’s flights of anger unpredictably.

I feel an obligation to hear her out. It’s gnawing at me and it’s not healthy.

Thank you for your reply, seekingtheway . I can relate to the way you describe the anxiety. I recognize that it is this feeling that is at the core of my attachment, and what I most need help with. It`s easy when it is less prevalent to feel like I am `better`, but it inevitably comes back (sometimes in a matter of hours). Posting here, going to therapy and being overall busy with life have been game changers over the past few weeks. During my last session, we (well mostly my therapist) described my own cycle of `trigger-anxiety-compulsion` that I now realize is activated after almost every interaction with him. I remember when I was talking to him a few months ago, I was struggling with `picking up` the conversation when it had come to a natural end. I kept trying to keep it going. This was anxiety. It`s in the `in-between` moments that my pattern is activated, and I worry that I won`t hear from him, that it`s our last interaction, etc. My goal is to sit with this feeling for longer and longer periods, instead of acting from that place. This is where mindful activities, exercise, etc. come into play. I`ve been letting the conversation petter off, and haven`t been asking him how he is doing as often. I told myself that if I don`t hear from him after 3 days, I can reach out. I know it doesn`t sound like a lot, but it`s a start. As a result, I do feel like the relationship is a lot `lighter`, and so far, he`s reached out before the 3 day period that I set for myself.

Another goal is to weed out how exactly I view this relationship. There are certainly many good aspects to it; it makes me happy to help him when I can. I remind myself regularly that he is going to feel better and meet someone new inevitably, and probably distance himself, and that`s okay. I am writing about how our interactions make me feel. His (now ex) girlfriend came to drop off his stuff yesterday. I felt a peak of anxiety when he told me this, unclear as to why. I asked him how he felt, told him he is capable of handling the interaction with grace and strength, and told him that he could reach out to me if he needed support. We spoke for a bit, the conversation pettered off, and I didn`t check in later to ask how it went. This was very difficult for me!