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Author Topic: How and why did I go back  (Read 6508 times)
20yearslater2022
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« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2022, 11:09:14 PM »

Good Evening All,

I'm not quite sure where to start as I have been lurking and learning here for the better part of a decade.  It is because of the wisdom, honesty, and vulnerability I encountered on this site so very long ago and consistently over the years that I am able to thrive today.

I still browse from time to time, especially when I need a selfcare reminder or validation.  The validation this site provides is extremely powerful, exclusive, elusive, and can be the difference between life and death, reality and fantasy.  These relationships can leave us at our lowest with an exaggerated feeling of worthlessness and an extremely warped sense of reality.

Please take everything you read here extremely seriously.  Listen to the advise and get help, (nothing has to be decided immediately).  Do the work, find out why you contribute to this dysfunctional relationship and take care of yourself.

I remember the first time I found this site, I was so relived, and so arrogant!  It felt like the weight of the world had been Iifted off my shoulders.  I was so excited, it explained everything, finally!  I was so excited to share and my new found knowledge with my wife, what a rookie mistake!

As you have read so many times before this resulted in my immediate devaluation, followed by multiple arrests, false allegations, and recycles over a five year period. 

It really is text book and just when you think it is over or cant get worse, look out!

As I dug deeper, I remember thinking these people on bpd family are so bitter!  No way you can predict a person reactions!  No way this will happen to me!  She loves me!  Nobody can predict the future!

It all happened!  Every story I read on here, right down to the police charges, the false abuse allegations, the cheating, and the charming.

15 years of verbal and physical abuse, multiple counsellors, friends, lawyers, girlfriends, and family members could not convince me there were serious issues with my wife, my marriage, and within myself.

I remember thinking these people are f****d.  They are jealous and jaded that they did not get a second, third, forth, tenth...chance.  They did not try hard enough!  They could not change! They could not adapt!  They could not work the tools!  They are turning their backs on their vows, etc...

I double down on my marriage.  Neglecting the wisdom and the knowledge I had studied and encountered here for so many years.


The second time I found this site it was in desperation for my mental health, my life, my children, and my finances after another devastating split in 2020.  The reality of the past 15years hit me all at once.

Thankfully due to my past experiences and education on this site I was able to recognize the issues and got help immediately.  Ultimately separating reality from the dysfunction and I was able to turn my positive attention to myself and my children.

I guess felt I should share as I have been reading a lot of new posts about reconciliation and hope.  I can absolutely assure you if you want to continue this relationship it is 100% in your control.  No matter how heart broken, worthless, replaced, or abandoned you feel at the moment. 

I suggest you take this very seriously, set your ego aside, and find the strength to understand your own needs, mental illness, the seriousness of your partners mental illness, and why you were willing to tolerate, participate, or fantasize this relationship in the first place.

This is where the real work begins and is the true key to recovery and happiness.  When you get here there will be zero desire to return to the dysfunctional dynamics of a BPD relationship and sacrifice an unlimited world of possibilities.

Thanks,


Just my opinion




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Andy1963
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« Reply #61 on: July 16, 2022, 04:41:29 PM »

I really do realise that she is playing me completely
She goes quiet for a few days then suddenly a message,  she knows I will respond
I feel like I'm I fly wrapped and in her web, she comes and prods me every now and again to check that I'm still responsive, she will decide when she wants to feast again
I actually feel like I'm in a living nightmare,  can't seem to shake myself loose
I know all the advice is to block and move on
Every bone in my body seems to be resisting that
Part of me actually thinks she is truly evil,  playing with my feelings, knowing I will respond
Feeling completely lost
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« Reply #62 on: July 17, 2022, 06:41:03 AM »

Hello Andy,

I've been following along on your thread for a little while now.  I hope you don't mind if I add a couple of thoughts.

I can see you are really hurting.  I was in a similar place once too.   Like many of us here I climbed up out of that hole.   You can too.   

I really do realise that she is playing me completely

maybe she is.    probably she is.     still, isn't the bigger question what do you want to do about it.   

you say you don't want to go No Contact.    Okay.   I never really went No Contact.   Not really my choice,  just the way things played out.   Lots of people here don't go No Contact.   They share children.   Or work together.   Or have some connection that they can not sever.

What do you want to do instead?    Here is what I know from my own experience.   We need to be 100% responsible for our own 50% of these relationships.   

There is usually a reason why we enter and stay in these dysfunctional relationships.    There is usually a reason why we tolerate so much bad behavior.    Those reasons have much more to do with us, not with them.

The way you describe her, you seem to be giving her all the power in the relationship.    and I don't think that is actually true.   I think you can make decisions.  I believe you are strong enough to go in any direction you want.

What I found to be true for me is that being trapped in the cycle of abuse meant the relationship became a cycle: waiting – hoping – hurting – being angry – forgiving – forgetting – and all over again.   It takes some internal strength to break the cycle of abuse.   And I know you can break free.   

Being in a relationship like this is like an addiction.    and the way to stop being stuck in that addiction is to make one decision.  one simple decision to do something differently.    just for today.    can you turn your phone off for an hour and go for a walk?       can you post here helping someone else?    can you turn your focus away from her and onto something else?   anything else?  can you start to look at why it is you actually do go back?   

there is usually a reason we enter these chaotic relationships and a reason we stay so long.    it's our job to figure out why we get so fixated on a relationship we know isn't healthy for us.    that's our stuff.     when I was first here, a very long time ago,  I used to get very upset to read that we pick partners that are a match for us in some way.    bothered me terribly to read that.    now after time I can see the truth in that statement.    I was so hooked on the idealization phase of the relationship.   I have never been loved like that in my whole life and I was willing to do almost anything, put up with almost anything to get that phase back.

what do you think?    can you turn your focus on to you and take a stab and figuring out why every bone in your body is resisting letting go?    what do you think is still available for you in this relationship?     and if there is something still available, what do you think is the best way to go about getting it?

'ducks

'du
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Andy1963
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« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2022, 03:27:07 PM »

Thankyou so much babyducks for that
It really resonates with me
I absolutely know that this relationship is bad for me, everyone around me has been telling that for years now
I never initiate the messages,  however I do respond and she knows I will
Im not even sure what part of what we had i actually want anymore,  there's a strong physical attraction,  she is a very attractive woman
So I do miss our intimacy,  but beyond that it was a very difficult relationship for me
Constantly walking on eggshells,  I know don't miss lots of things that made me uneasy and insecure,  her constant lies, cheating,  gaslighting
But you're right, I feel like I'm addicted to her
She knows exactly which buttons to press with me
Right now we are back in silent mode, this usually lasts a few days so I'm going to try not to think about her and if and when she does text, I will try to resist replying
I just want the pain to stop
But I know it will take time
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« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2022, 04:34:53 PM »

Upstream you mentioned a trauma bond and ptsd.  I understand what you are referencing.   Those are pretty common feelings for most of us.

When we are in these types of relationships we over focused on our difficult partners.    We become fixated on them.  Hypervigiliant and over identified with them.   It's a protective measure.   Subconsciously we try to keep our selves safe by pouring 100% of our energy into them.   

When they abandon us we feel bereft.    We keep trying to pour our energy into their empty bucket.   

What we often miss is that our bucket is empty and we should be pouring energy into it.

You are right of course.    Time will lessen the pain you feel.

What I would like to suggest is that you you consider being more proactive about your healing plan.

If you were to make a list, a no holds barred, the sky is the limit list of healing steps just for you, what would it look like?  If you were to put yourself first how could you go about that?

I'm sure people here would share how they healed.  The steps they took.   What worked for them.
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« Reply #65 on: July 17, 2022, 05:44:16 PM »

I have used the word bereft so many times when trying to explain how I feel
The bucket analogy is so pertinent to me
I felt after two years that I was emotionally and mentally drained, I had given absolutely every ounce of me, trying to maintain a balance
And yes, trying to rediscover that initial idealisation that made me feel like a million dollars
But I know now that was an illusion,  that person wasn't real
Yet today my rational brain can't make sense of that
I was always true, I was always me
Im struggling so much with my own self esteem right now, its crippling me
And its probably why I keep responding to her messages
Plus my sense of loneliness and isolation
Because I poured so much into her and us I cut myself off from other people,  family and friends who cares about me
I now feel tremendous guilt imposing on them now
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« Reply #66 on: July 17, 2022, 05:56:37 PM »

As far as my bucket is concerned
I feel it is completely empty
My codependency is a major issue
Ive tried to arrange therapy as I know its something I need to work on, but its becoming so difficult to arrange
I even reached out privately but nothing available
But I've started a journal,  to self therapise a little
And given myself some little personal goals
Its all I have control over
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« Reply #67 on: July 18, 2022, 12:01:39 AM »

hello again Andy,

I can't help but notice that some of the language you use to describe yourself is pretty stark.   do you think we can take a look at some of that?

you see, the way we feel about things comes from how we think about things.  the way we feel about any event comes from the way we talk about it to ourselves in our own heads.

I know this sounds weird.    but hang in there with me for a second.   

let's say a bunch of us are sitting on a park bench watching kids play on some monkey bars.    one kid nearly falls but at the last moment Mom catches him and the day is saved.

those of us on the park bench experience that differently.   one of us could be thinking 'wow that was close, that kid could have been badly hurt, that was frightening'.   

another could be thinking 'thank goodness Mom caught him at the last moment, I feel relieved that turned out so well'.

another could be thinking ' why do they make those stupid monkey bars so high like that,  that makes me angry'.

same event.  but the thinking about it frames the feelings the folks on the bench experience.   make sense?

the same is true for us.   the words we use to describe the experience to ourselves frames how we feel about it.    our feelings come from our thinking.

so if we describe things as a tangled web that we can never get out of, our words create our reality.   

let's look at this:

Only She Will Ever Make Me Happy.

I'm thinking that only she will ever make me happy.

I'm noticing that I am thinking again that only she will ever make me happy.

Each time I re-frame the thought I distance myself from it a little bit.   and every time I distance myself I feel less upset by it.     this is the core of ACT therapy. 

Acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT) teaches mindfulness skills to help individuals live and behave in ways consistent with personal values while developing psychological flexibility.

mindfulness skills and flexibility are good to develop.   inside of ACT is an idea called Cognitive Defusion – This is a mindfulness strategy that involves recognizing our psychological experiences objectively rather than perceiving them as perceived threats or realities. Our feelings, therefore, are simply feelings and not omens of impending doom. Thoughts are thoughts and not necessarily true, clever, or important.

you can google more if you are interested by the purpose of cognitive defusion is backing us away from the rigid thinking that causes us pain.    the amount of pain we experience about something is related to how rigid we are holding ourselves.    and that is true whether it is physically or mentally.   when you go get a shot at the doctor - what do they tell you - relax your arm it will hurt less. the same is true of our thinking,   the more we can relax our thinking the less fearful, the less uncomfortable we will be.

please understand that I am not saying this isn't difficult.   oh my it certainly is.   still the more we tell ourselves 'she knows exactly what buttons to press' the more we create a reality where she has all the power and we have very little.   if we can re-frame that to 'right now my buttons are being pushed but they are my buttons and I know I am in charge of them'   the more the power shifts back to where it belongs.     I know I am making it sound simple.   it certainly isn't.   most of us have inner voices that don't do us any favors.    and we are so used to living with a vicious inner critic that we almost don't pay any attention any more.   still the truth is we are in charge of our thoughts.   and we can move them.   a tiny litle bit at a time in a direction that is more friendly and kind to us.

what do you think?

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« Reply #68 on: July 18, 2022, 02:27:18 AM »

Once again thankyou for this
The last time we had a major breakup like this I came to this board and spent months learning, posting and trying to heal
I engaged in many mindfulness techniques to try to find peace and escape the pain
Looking back now at that time( I have reread many of my posts from then)
I can remember starting to feel better and stronger
I recognised the futility of the relationship back then and at that time I truly believed we were finished for good
But I had underestimated the reality of recycling
Because we hadn't had a long break before , I never imagined that it would happen after a break as long as that
So essentially,  I was doing well, healing, preparing for life without her and learning all the skills necessary for that
But then she caught me unawares,  I should have ignored the text asking to meet, I look back and think, what the hell, after all that work and progress, one text and I was back
So I suppose this time around, I'm just so conscious that I am right now very vulnerable to her advances and yes, I know I have to start taking major steps towards fully accepting that I cannot allow her to have any influence over me or how I think
A big part of my problem right now is that I live alone and spend quite a lot of time on my own, yes I have friends and family but essentially I am alone 90% of the time evenings and weekends
But I'm trying to fill that time and am conscious that I must find ways to avoid spending so much time alone
But once again, thankyou babyducks
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« Reply #69 on: July 18, 2022, 04:26:25 AM »

But then she caught me unawares,  I should have ignored the text asking to meet, I look back and think, what the hell, after all that work and progress, one text and I was back

what I am hearing you tell me is that you are pretty cognitively fused with the idea that she is completely in charge of your experience in the relationship.  that she is in charge of how this goes.     I'm suggesting that maybe this isn't true.      She isn't evil.   or magic.    of that powerful.

can I ask what may be a tough question?    every bone in your body is resisting letting go of the idea of her.     do you think that keeps you in this vulnerable space?

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« Reply #70 on: July 18, 2022, 05:49:00 AM »

Yes I believe that my inability to totally let go is giving her total control
I just cannot figure out how to change that thinking
Even though  I know I need to
Its a bizarre mental head melt
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« Reply #71 on: July 18, 2022, 07:11:58 AM »

What is it exactly that you can't let go of?
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« Reply #72 on: July 18, 2022, 07:26:45 AM »

The belief that she was truly the one, and that she loves me, despite all evidence to the contrary
It makes no rational sense, but I am still in love with her, or at least in love with a version of her
But that person doesn't exist, I know that
Thats why non of this makes any sense to me
I know the truth, yet I'm in denial
I constantly remind myself of the horrible things she said and did to me
She is actually not a nice person
When I caught her cheating that last time
I swear she actually smirked at me as I walked off
Absolutely no remorse whatsoever
So I actually don't know what I'm hanging on to?

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« Reply #73 on: July 18, 2022, 01:45:12 PM »

Feelings don't make logical sense.   Feelings aren't like a calculation where 2 and  2 equals 4. 

I vividly remember how loved and cherished my Ex made me feel in the beginning of our relationship.   It was the most exhilarating feeling I have ever experienced.    I was walking on air.

Coming to terms and accepting that those early days were just another symptom of BPD was a crushing disappointment.

The alternative was to live with in an illusion.   

Which is not to say I didn't try.    But in the end the relationship was not sustainable.

From what I hear you describing your relationship isn't even available to you.    She's moved on correct?

We invest a lot into our relationships.   I thought this was going to be the love that saved me.    In the end I could let go gracefully or I could watch the whole thing destruct.   Letting go gracefully was less painful for me.
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« Reply #74 on: July 18, 2022, 03:23:30 PM »

I feel for you Andy.  I am over two weeks into almost no contact (sent her a picture on IG that she reacted to but she ignores my posts and I have started to do the same).  It is really not easy and, my own situation, I have now idea what is going to actually happen.  A handful of people who know our history have told me it is a matter of time before she reaches out.  Naturally, nothing would give me greater joy but I have to treat it like it is over and focus on myself.  One plus side of mine, she is a good person and she never has actually painted me black.  She will split from me hard but she has never demonized me.  And she tries to better herself so the least I can do for myself is to the same for me.  That may not be of much help to you and trust me I have been in an incredibly dark place the past few weeks.  I also have a network but am alone more often than I would like to be these days.  Distract yourself as much as you can and stay productive in conjunction with that.
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« Reply #75 on: July 18, 2022, 04:16:58 PM »

Yes babyducks she has moved on, as she did 2 years ago for 5 months then came back saying she missed me and it had all been a big mistake
The guy she is with lives in a different country,  hes in the middle of a divorce,  she met him on a plane,  and her looking as she does caught his eye
Because we were off and on so much she latched on to him
She probably only sees him once per month
Its madness
So I expect at some point she will try to recycle me
And despite all the damage that will cause, right now, I would go back
Crazy I know
So I need to move my head away from that to avoid it
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« Reply #76 on: July 19, 2022, 04:51:28 AM »

Because we were off and on so much she latched on to him

how do you feel about this Andy?   what are your values and boundaries around her having multiple partners?     when she did this last time what consequences did she face for her behavior?     did you express a boundary about what you will and won't accept in terms of her coming and going?  do you think this is acceptable?

So I expect at some point she will try to recycle me
And despite all the damage that will cause, right now, I would go back

she might try to recycle you.    after all it's worked out for her in the past.   she's gotten what she wanted using these same behaviors before. 

the old saying is 'if you keep doing, what you have always done...you are going to get,... what you have always gotten'.

if she send you a message that says 'oh I made a mistake, I want to come back' what would you say or do?    what would be different this time to keep the both of you from repeating the same cycle again.   I'll be blunt.   nothing is going to change unless you change.   

even if she does reach out, a recycle isn't inevitable.    it's up to you.    like I said upstream,..we need to be 100% responsible for our 50% of the relationship we find ourselves in.    what do you want?      no one is going to judge you here.    it's okay to want to go back.  it's okay to want to get out.    it's okay to be undecided.

if you want to go back I would suggest you consider posting on another board.   and really learn the skills necessary to be in this type of relationship.    commit yourself to being the emotional leader.   learn to effectively introduce boundaries and the communication tools.    build your resilience and self esteem so you are not damaged by the emotional swings.

if you really want to get out, then I would suggest you switch the focus from her, to you.    really dig deep into what keeps you stuck in this spot, why do you tolerate this behavior.    figure out why this was acceptable for so long.  take responsibility for your own happiness.

it's okay to be undecided.  it is not so okay to be undecided for a long time.    remaining in limbo waiting for someone else to make a decision for you will probably lead you to being back here in 2 years time after a 5 month break sharing the same story.

Crazy I know
So I need to move my head away from that to avoid it

yes.   these are crazy making relationships.   we choose mentally ill people to become involved with.    crazy is part of what happens.    expecting rational behavior is not reasonable.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say you need to move your head away from that to avoid it?    I'm not sure what it is you want to avoid.    if it is the crazy you want to avoid, I have to be honest and say you can't.   it's very much part of how you two are together.    its not going to go away.     I would say that basically your choices boil down to two - walk away from the crazy and let it go.    or find ways to adapt to the crazy, accept that it is what it is,  and learn how to function with it, without being damaged by it.    that means you would have to change.   you.   not her.   that would be a tough road to go.     what you describe is a relationship that is pretty badly damaged.    and may not be salvageable in any real way.

still I would say the decision is up to you.   not to her.   this is on you.   what happens in your life is yours to decide.

'ducks

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« Reply #77 on: July 19, 2022, 06:35:39 AM »

I know exactly what you are saying ducks
The time before when we split for 5 months came after weeks and weeks of me setting boundaries and trying to get her to take responsibility for her actions and behaviours. I started to not allow many things that previously I had just tolerated. This led to many episodes of her splitting and getting angry with me
' you're not my Andrew anymore ' she would say constantly
I said, I'm still the same person you met, but I'm not accepting your behaviour or actions any more, you have to recognise these things and work to change
She often said during the first 2 years that we only stayed together because I was so patient and accepting,  ' you know how to handle me' she would often say
But then I became mentally and emotionally exhausted so needed to set boundaries as I knew that things couldn't go on like that, I was becoming a basket case
This triggered a major splitting for her and, because she had already identified a new source, she ended us
3 weeks later she was engaged to her new source
Thats when I came on this board and for months worked on learning everything I could to try to understand what had happened
But then, just as I was starting to heal, ping , she was back and we started over
So I truly understand now that doing the same again would be a recipe for disaster
I cannot put myself through that, why would I, just to end up back here in this world of pain?
So essentially I need to train my brain to accept that she can never again be in my life
I need to learn much more self respect and love
I really am trying hard
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« Reply #78 on: July 20, 2022, 07:26:07 PM »

Honestly the short term memory goes both ways. I wash over the abuse and spend evenings like this missing the simple touch.
     My ex would still reach out I am sure. Because the only thing I could provide was money in the end. And now she has plenty so I don’t hear from her now.
   So it’s my hurt and issue is me. I realize that. Comes a time when we can cry and a then cry and realize  we are being  human but wasting our time doing this pain. But we will for who knows how long. It’s damaging though. No doubt.
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« Reply #79 on: July 28, 2022, 01:26:12 AM »

Update
After a period of silence she has reached out to me
Asking for help with job application,  now her IT skills are limited , but she has other people she could ask, not least her current person
So reluctantly,  I met her
What followed was 90 mins of severe splitting and some really bizarre behaviour
She indicated,  subtly,  that cracks are beginning in her current setup
Signs of devaluation starting to show
Telling me she will always love me in one breath, and in the next getting angry that I had confronted her that day with him
Then, for the first time, an acknowledgement that what she had done was wrong and she was sorry to hurt me like that
The level of splitting during those 90 mins are actually quite concerning
I have thought for some time that she was becoming more and more unwell, well this confirms that
I left her thinking that she is heading for a complete meltdown
I'm spending time working on me, which I hope will protect me against the possibility of any re cycling  as I fear this is the start of that process
It actually helped me meeting her as it was a stark reminder of just how unwell she is
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« Reply #80 on: July 28, 2022, 09:11:56 AM »

came after weeks and weeks of me setting boundaries and trying to get her to take responsibility for her actions and behaviours.

Boundaries are not meant to change another person's behavior or actions.    Boundaries are made to change our behavior and actions.

Boundaries protect us.  Boundaries take care of us.   If my boundary is I won't be cursed at, then my action is to get up and leave when it starts.   She can still be cursing all she wants but I am not going to be there to be impacted by it.
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« Reply #81 on: July 28, 2022, 09:15:30 AM »


What followed was 90 mins of severe splitting and some really bizarre behaviour



The level of splitting during those 90 mins are actually quite concerning


Why did you stay for 90 minutes?   What did you get out of that?
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Andy1963
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« Reply #82 on: July 28, 2022, 11:07:36 AM »

I stayed because I was composing her CV
But in between there was conversation
It was actually quite therapeutic for me
With my involvement on here and all the information I've been cramming about BPD it was so in evidence
It reconfirmed everything I already knew and has really helped me accept that she is beyond help and impossible to be in a relationship with
There were glimpses if the person I fell in love with, but only glimpses
She is very unwell
It breaks my heart to see such a beautiful girl being that way
She could have been anything...
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« Reply #83 on: July 29, 2022, 04:49:49 AM »

Asking for help with job application,  now her IT skills are limited , but she has other people she could ask, not least her current person

I stayed because I was composing her CV

most of us are nice guys and nice gals.   we are nice people to our own expense.    over and over again.     we just have to ~help~.

but let's look at this help we provide.    are we truly helping or are we rescuing?   and is one okay and the other not so much?

we tend to get our feelings of self-esteem through helping, fixing, care taking.   we define our self-worth by how successful we are at taking care of someone else.   often that is something we absorbed as children.    and in the hyper intense world of BPD we try harder and harder to care take.

you understand that she has other choices about getting help for this task.   probably quite a few choices if we stop and list them out.    you are reluctant but override your own instinct and go ~help~ her anyhow.    the conversation goes off the rails but rather than say 'this doesn't feel productive to me, I am going to cut this short and go'.   you stay because you were composing her CV.   You are composing.    not helping her anymore but doing the work yourself?

we keep putting ourselves in these situations because we are getting something out of them.   

 for me, for a while, it was proving I was not the worst person.     it was a contest,   who was the better person,  who was the worst person, who was right, who was wrong, who was behaving poorly, who was acting healthy.    the only way to win that contest is not to play it.

being in these relationships meets a need we have.    the trick is to find ways to meet that need in a healthy way.    if we are hardwired to need to help, we need to be mindful of how to help in an appropriate healthy way.   ways that don't injure us and don't enable the bad behavior of someone else.

'ducks
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« Reply #84 on: July 29, 2022, 05:33:02 PM »

I really am struggling 'ducks'
I cannot seem to resist her and I know it has disaster written all over it
She has asked to see me again and go for drinks etc, yet she's still with this other guy, shes sending me pictures of herself knowing how stunning she is and knowing how attracted I am to her
Its like she has me under a spell
My brain is going to explode,  really really in a bad place
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« Reply #85 on: July 30, 2022, 07:38:29 AM »

She is with another man.
He chose him over you.
Own that.
Walk away. It's not your fault.
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« Reply #86 on: July 30, 2022, 09:15:22 AM »

I wouldn't say you are under a spell Andy.   I would perhaps suggest that you are emotionally dependent and enmeshed with her.    That's an entirely different thing.

You absolutely have the strength and the fortitude to not respond to her.   You can  free yourself from this dependency.

Its not her sending you pictures that is the problem.    the problem is your reaction to them.

Who is in charge of your reaction?

You are.

People have suggested that you block her.    and you haven't yet been able to tolerate that idea.     

Why have people said to block her?   because that will force some emotional and physical distance between you.     its all about becoming less enmeshed and becoming more a separate entity.

do things that will create that distance between you and her.   turn off your phone.   for an hour.    mute your ringer.    don't look at her messages immediately.    change her name in your contact list to 'do not respond'.  go do something else.    play basketball.    go for a hike.    visit friends you haven't seen in a long time and talk about what is going on in their life.    seek activities, ideas and people that resonate with you, that do not involve her.

there are ways to fight emotional dependency.   

nothing good is going to come from doing the same things that lead you here.

 what can you do today that is good for Andy1963?
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« Reply #87 on: July 30, 2022, 01:53:15 PM »

Thankyou ducks much appreciated
Yes I'm very conscious of my need to connect with her,  truth is we had an unbelievable connection,  but I'm so aware that it was real for me but not necessarily for her
She said some things during our chat that suggested  she realised what we had
She told me that she loved me and missed us
But her illness is very pronounced,  so much more than I ever realised, I do believe she loves me but she can never be what I need her to be
I'm stepping away from her and will try to heal, even though it completely breaks my heart

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« Reply #88 on: July 30, 2022, 02:06:38 PM »

Here are some options for a few different 12 Step meetings you can begin attending immediately either in person locally, or online via Zoom while you wait to get into therapy, and something to continue doing:

https://codauk.org/
https://slaafws.org/meetings/
https://adultchildren.org/
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« Reply #89 on: July 31, 2022, 07:03:12 AM »

I am really going to encourage you to follow some of the links that Couscous thoughtfully provided.   They might not be the 100% perfect thing right now but they very well maybe a good first step on your journey to healing.

Healing takes work.    active and sometimes difficult work.    No one here will tell you it's easy to let go of our past partners.   it's not.    I have vivid memories of taking long hikes where I would struggle to turn my thoughts away from the ruminations.    to replace obsessive thoughts of her with a more positive and relaxing thoughts.    it took time but I did it.   You can too.     

I am going to share another link with you.

https://www.choosingtherapy.com/narcissistic-abuse-syndrome/

It's a long article but I sincerely hope you will take the time to read all of it.   I shared it for this reason.   While the article is about narcissistic abuse, the link between BPD and NPD is very close.    In fact, so close they are often spoken of together.    Both are psychologically abusive relationships.   Inside the article are quite a few links to positive actions you can begin to start moving you away from what you are feeling.   

This is from the article:

Excerpt
Others’ needs and feelings are of little importance to them, unless they can be manipulated to get what they want. For the BPD/NPD partner, relationships are a means to an end, to obtain what they believe they deserve – in terms of status, admiration, authority, control and power.

People who present on the BPD/NPD end of the spectrum have insatiable needs for admiration, attention, affection, status, power, and control.   As is often said, we are a source of supply.    Because their needs are so intense, there can never be enough supply.

The amount of emotional trauma we go through in these relationships can overwhelm our brain's ability to process it.  What happens, in short, is that the brain is so overtaxed by the stress of the trauma, that it is not able to record the traumatic event(s) as having a beginning, middle, and—most importantly—an end.

Instead the brain records the trauma as having a beginning and middle – but no “end” – so we re-live it over and over again.   either in memory or by actually playing out the same roles and events, even while we understand that the outcomes will be the same.   

In this link about the stages of healing - what stage would you put yourself at?

Excerpt

Again - disregard the word narcissistic and look at it through the lens of your relationship.

I am looking for ways that this website can help you out of the cognitive dissonance and towards acceptance.

what do you say?
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