Hi Rosanna,
I am a big believer in distancing yourself once a child has become an adult. I know that kids with BPD do not mature normally, but by 25 she can probably handle her own issues like this.
You did great in reminding/advising her to go back for treatment!

I would say that of course you don’t acknowledge her texts as she is in rage mode and it wouldn’t matter anyway.

Once she’s gotten past this issue (hopefully) and is calm, I would simply tell her that I am here for you, I cannot change most things, but I can advise you how to handle it.
And remind her of this after each event, so hopefully it will stick.

Keep reinforcing ideas to her, and hopefully someday she will remember. But try not to ever get angry with her.

I hope that helps!

Wishing you the best! OurWorld

How old- like recently- middle age. That is how well things were hidden when we were kids. As I said- it wasn't physical abuse or neglect. We had all we needed materially.

There were incidents but these relatives couldn't put them in context with the overall impression of our family. They knew BPD mother was odd but they thought she was eccentric.

But as they became more involved with her in her elder years- they began to see more of her behavior and the times where there were clues - where they could see we were afraid of her or she did something that didn't seem OK began to make sense.

So how could these family members make a difference even now?  I don't "need" parents in the way a child does but I think in general, not having the kind of affirmation from a parent leave a blank somehow. You have already filled the role of a motherly person for these children and that is huge. It may not seem like doing enough by your standards but if someone doesn't have that- it still makes a difference.

Whether or not this is deliberate gaslighting- growing up, it's confusing as we hear the explanations that our mothers tell us and often that is to blame us for our failure at not achieving the kind of relationship we wish we could have with a mother. So now, even decades later, they can provide some clarity and validation for the misperceptions.

Here's a lesson I've learned the hard way.  Focus on what you can control.  Let everything else go.

What can you control here?  You might think, "Not much."  But that's not true.

You can be a great dad and let your kids know that you'll always be there for them.

You can give physical, emotional, and financial support.

You can try to mend the relationship with mom for better/more open communication.

Again, that might not seem like much.  But to the kids, that's everything knowing that they always have a parent on their side.  Most of us took that for granted growing up because we had two great parents.  Others had a tougher time for whatever reason with one parent struggling.  Some had no parents and grew up hard.  But we were all looking for that rock in our lives, that source of stability...that's the most important thing.  So continue being that rock.

For the counseling part, you know that it doesn't work without a willing participant.  So tell your kids that.  If they ever want to talk things out with a professional, you know someone who is an awesome person.  Leave it at that...it's like leaving the door open or the light on.  That's what you can control so you offer it.

For the mom, you can only control your side of the communication.  This is a hard one because I'm in the exact same place.  Yet you must extend the olive branch and work on that relationship, to be supportive, etc.  It stinks, I don't like my ex as a person anymore and I don't want to be friends.  But I have to be because the kids always come first.  So I'm kind, I'm supportive, and I now get that same stuff back (to some extent).  If I need to pick up the phone and call my ex, she'll answer and we can have productive conversations.  That makes this 10,000x easier...even if I do have to play therapist sometimes.

Again, focus on what you can control.  Let go of everything else.  You've got this!

Thank you Jaded. It's so hard to care for someone who is also doing damage to you and themselves. He had my head so tied in knots I'm still untangling them in real time. The more I read others experiences on this board, the less isolating it all feels. This is truly a wonderful place, I'm so glad to have found it.

Thank you Tina, knowing there are others who lived on this weird alien world I inhabited the last decade is such a welcomed surprise. I thought I was the only one trapped on that hostile world.

Pook your reply to my post was like getting a lungful of air after holding my breath as long as I could. Someone got me. I feel so isolated and alone right now with my pain because others in my life can't fathom why I am worried about him, and why I miss him so much, while also being so relieved he's gone that I feel like I'm finally living in the "real world" again. The two emotions are in such conflict, they are why I tear up when I think about it.

Truth #1 - I know this deep down in my core. I've just been in survival mode for so long. Survival for me, for him, for the relationship, for everything. Just getting through each day was sometimes a knock down, drag out, battle. It got worse recently but it was just getting piled on so hard that each new day felt harder than the last, so you lose perspective on how bad things are getting.

Truth #2 - As I've read on here from others, it's very hard to get someone using substances or alcohol with BPD to understand how much worse it's making things. He was drinking a lot behind my back, having "a few beers" in the open but slamming 3-4 when I wasn't around in between. Up until the very end, I had no idea BPD was what he was facing, so I just took it as he was changing due to the constant intoxication, but mainly because of me, because I was the reason for all good and bad things to happen to him. I asked, begged, pleaded, put my foot down, and all that about the drinking, he wasn't having it. He leaned into it harder the last few months, pushing me to drink with him, and not just a beer but to drink heavily with him. When I explained to him each time that I have no desire to do this, I don't enjoy being drunk, he would just belittle me, insult me, call me a "pussy" for not wanting to drink. I hope he can get help. His release after being incarcerated for the final blow up we had, mandates he enter a drug/alcohol program, and get a thorough psych evaluation. He's been a steady marijuana user for as long as I've known him so getting off that and the alcohol is going to be tough, for his sake I'm hoping he completes the program and doesn't go to jail.

Truth #3 - This is the hardest one for me. Luckily he has yet to reach out or try to contact me. Part of his release/plea deal is he cannot have contact with me or come to our home. I extended that with an order of protection which caries a heavier penalty for initiating contact. This insures he won't reach out to me, and if I reach out to him, it negates the order (to my understanding) so I'm motivated to not do so. It's so hard because I am so worried about him and want to make sure he's OK. This is sadly the same theme that kept me with him for so long, my need to protect him and make things "OK" because he's had such a hard life. I am painfully realizing that nothing I was doing, could've done, or would do in the future, would've fixed any of this. He was always headed down the destruction path, I kept prodding him in the right direction to leave that path but he was just drawn back to it no matter how hard I tried.

My biggest fear is not him, it's myself. I am worried I'm going to miss him so much that I will break and contact him, reach out to him, try to fix him again or try to "make it better for him". Today, that is not something I want to do. I hope tomorrow it's not as well. I struggle with wanting to know how he's doing but also not wanting to have this back in my life. I hope with time that feeling of needing to "be there" for him will lessen.

It sucks and is expensive to be in the position where you need a lawyer. There is no way around that.

One thought is it's better to spend the $300-400 per consultation, on a few non-urgent consultations now, and then never need any of those lawyers, than to try to save that money now, and end up scrambling to find someone last-minute if she escalates.

Another thought that members have brought up is that phrasing is sometimes important. Lawyers might charge you for a consultation but not for an interview. If you ask to briefly interview a few L's over the phone that may be a less expensive way to go than asking to schedule a consultation in the office. Not 100% sure on that but worth considering.

Yeah, the trust issue is big. No sense just restarting with a new family T every 2 years because Mom won't stick it out.

Can you get D12 an individual counselor for the long-term (versus family counseling, which, like you said, Mom won't really stick with)? Would she be open to that/see it as helpful? Kind of accept that Mom is who she is and chooses not to participate, and stop doing abrupt family T start/stops because of Mom, and set up D12 with someone she really can connect with and trust for years? IDK -- it isn't easy stuff.

Direct cash payment might decrease the hourly rate.

Hi stingray,

Yes, udd and her boyfriend would Triangulate me too until I told them both that I couldnt do it anymore. Even now I feel it was the right thing to do and it put the responsibility back on udd and b/f. What I did notice though was that udd became even more secretive about all areas of her life. I guess that comes from the Black And White thinking of people being all or bad or all good.

Think about it this way- replace BPD with cancer or any physical illness.  Would you have the same viewpoint?

When I explain BPD to people who don't know anything about it, I say that it's a condition where someone has heightened feelings.  When they get upset or depressed, they tend to rely more on emotion and less on logic, so their moods can change quickly.  When they become unstable due to insecurity or fear of abandonment, showing them empathy and love makes them feel secure and helps them stabilize.

There are things your spouse deals with that you'll never understand...none of us will.  But it's very well-known how to help them get past these moments.  The negative behavior is tied directly to self-esteem and self-worth, so you soothe those emotions in the moment and help them get past it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, dealing with BPD is a lot better than dealing with cancer.  The immediate changes have to come from you though while the long term stuff comes from her.  Make sense?