Another poster called this "hopium" "I know that-----but (another reason for the behavior)

and then the "she might" change her mind.

IMHO, it's this hope that if you do X, or Y happens- then that will be what leads to change. But her issues are not external. Going to school, a new house, a vacation- these are external things. They don't lead to internal changes.

So when does one not have hope? I think that is a difficult one. I think it varies. I saw this too in my own family- the hope placed on "this vacation is what we need", this ___________is what we need.

We rooted for BPD mother to have some interest and focus of her own too. She would start something but it didn't stick. She would do a volunteer job. We cheered her on. She got a certificate degree at a community college. Got almost all A's. But didn't pursue the occupation she seemed interested in doing.

She didn't have to work. Dad provided, but what we wanted for her was a focus, a sense of accomplishment. I don't know what she did all day when we were in school. We felt that not having a sense of purpose wasn't good for her but we couldn't make this happen for her.

Staying married- as you choose to do, to someone who is focused on her wants, her needs, and you have other ideas or needs- there's constant conflict. You care about your mother but you have connected your life to someone who doesn't care about her, or your relationship with her. This isn't a marriage where there's mutual consideration.

Thanks, ME88.

You’re right — The good times are fleeting.

But I have no regrets about blowing up.  No guilt.  I need to express my anger. Pushing it down, using tactics to deal with him because he lives in Crazy Town — None of it was working.

He deserves everything I said. It’s a drop in the bucket compared to what he’s done to me. He needs to know he’s made my life a living hell.

I think one day I will have to courage to tell him to get out. But first, I need legal advice.

Thanks so much.

Jazz

What I experienced, is that the good times are fleeting with them. They can be 'normal', whatever that mans. And then they get uncomfortable in the peace, since they are so used to chaos. So they'll bait you, they'll be avoidant, anything to get you to react. And we do, and it's unfortunate. And we say these horrible things, while possibly grounded in truth, are not delivered kindly and may not even be in line with the situation at hand.

Then we JADE. Which obviously never works. The full blame is put on you. Just stay calm. I know that's hard.

NotWendy,

Thank you for validating my feelings.  I simply could not hold back.  The dam broke.  I also felt safer, because he’s been acting “normal” lately. The irony is, because he’s been “normal” and I’ve had time to reflect on what a monster he’s been, all of my anger came out.

Thankfully,  I do NOT feel guilty. I feel empowered.  And I don’t think there is anything he can say to bring me down.  I hit rock bottom. I can only go UP.

Don’t know how this will work out.  I’m taking it moment by moment. 

Thanks again.

Jazz

Hello all,

Let this be a message that shows there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

I have been divorced now since 2021 and after weathering the extinction burst and attempted recycling find myself in a stable 3 year relationship and looking to the future. With my son about to turn 18 in a few months the legal end to her involvement in my life will come to an end.

Lessons learned for me: clear boundaries are vital, avoiding JADE behaviors and staying clear of invalidation and not only useful in working with BPD but in life overall and as such I am coaching my son in the same as he navigates his mother's ebbs and flows.

Life can be better, stability is out there and taking control of yourself and letting go of any attempt to fix the other has set me on this current better path.

You are only human and I have done this myself at times (yelled at BPD mother). The unfortunate thing is that- while it feels good in the moment, I would feel terrible about it later, and the response- from her- was not worth it.

How we feel bad about ourselves later is that- they may have instigated this but we are the one to lose control while they stay calm. Then, we are the ones who look like we are crazy.

And they see that they still have the power to get us to react. I sometimes felt my BPD mother has this "gotcha" sense of satisfaction that she could elicit an emotional reaction from me. Both positive and negative reactions are still positive reinforcement.

On your part, you felt what you felt and it's a lot of pain and anger. Your therapy session will help with this.

What your H did was "invite you to the crazy party". Keep in mind- if you get an invitation to the crazy party- you don't have to attend!  . We are all a work in progress so one option is if he does this again- leave the room, take a walk. It's understandable that you yelled.

It is important to notice what level of ability a person has to respect another person's boundaries. With an extremely disordered person with BPD and a close relationship involved like being the daughter of a mother with BPD, there is usually little chance that the mother will ever respect her daughter's boundaries if the mother is at the high end of the BPD spectrum. The boundaries in this type of scenario are about the daughter doing her best to set boundaries to protect her wellbeing the best she can, knowing that there will never be any kind of empathetic reciprocity from her mother.

It is also essential not to see the flying monkeys as all the same. Some will accept push back over a period of time. I have found a number of flying monkeys became more empathetic of my situation of being the scapegoat of my large disordered family, when they found themselves in situations that made them more able to relate to what I was going through. Most of the time the sudden change came from older people who all of sudden were dealing with key changes in their own family system, like both parents passing away, and the siblings acting badly because no parent was there to rein them in, like in my case.

Some flying monkeys hear something like: my daughter doesn't come to visit me, and believe this without verifying the facts. Sometimes a little push back can help, though perhaps it is not always worth it. I say that a person is not really a friend (or trustworthy as an acquaintance) until we have had a disagreement and see how we handle our differences.

It has helped me to realize that most people are uncomfortable saying anything negative about my family or anybody else's family, though some people really do get it, that the behaviors of the disordered family members are distressing and hurtful, they just don't feel comfortable telling me so. 

,

This is just a guess- as I can't predict what your wife wants or will do, but in my situation, what the "bully" wanted was control, not leaving. Like your wife, she could not have managed on her own. She was dependent on my father as your wife is on you.

This was a paradox. Dad earned the money, he was the more stable parent and yet, BPD mother seemed to be in control.

If the main reason is fear of your wife leaving you, it's possible that this fear is greater than what may actually happen.

For my father, there was an additional fear that could and did happen and it was the extreme reactions of my mother if people didn't go along with her.

Your wish- for your mother to see your children without rocking the boat in your marriage may not be realistic. It's weighing two consequences- one being your mother doesn't see the kids, or your wife reacts in a difficult way. These are two difficult choices.

Don't hold me to this- it's a wild guess- but I don't think your wife can manage on her own. She either may not actually leave you but if she did- I don't think it would last long. I don't think likely she'd find someone else willing to take on your role for her and the kids. Possible maybe but not so easy to do.

I'm not suggesting you bring up leaving as leverage. That isn't a helpful thing to do. However, if she threatens leaving, it might not have the leverage you fear it does.

BPD mother would bring up divorce, but I don't think she could have managed doing that.

I think it helps to keep in mind that boundaries are about us and our behavior. People connected to us may either be respectful of them or not. If someone has a disorder and doesn't respect boundaries, they may continue to challenge them.

As Zachira mentioned- a flying monkey may either choose to align with the disordered person and not respect boundaries or, decide for themselves. Our boundaries are still about us, whatever they do.

In Methuen's situation, the pwBPD still has BPD. They will likely continue with the same dynamics wherever they are. Being in assisted living, they will act out with the people there too.

My BPD mother complained about the food too. She kept snacks in her room. I don't know the rules in your mother's place. They advised her to drink supplemental drinks like Ensure. Residents had to buy their own but she did.

BPD mother also had an eating disorder. She didn't cook much. I was surprised at her dietary choices- both at home and at AL. She'd mostly want to eat cookies. She'd occasionally eat a hamburger.

The food isn't that great in any facility. By contrast though, my MIL did better, gained weight, ate better when she was in one than alone in her own home. She could cook but living alone takes some of the incentive away and she lost interest in cooking and eating much at home. She didn't have an eating disorder.

Another thing BPD mother did which was out of character for her was refuse to shower or bathe. For elderly people, some fear falling- so they have an aide there to help. She wouldn't take a shower even with that. She wasn't depressed or having a reason not to. She just refused.

As to boundaries- we can't control if a person eats or not. We can offer/provide food if we choose. Our boundary would be about that. When my mother told me she didn't like the Ensure drink, I decided to send her a case of another kind.

When I asked her about that, she said she didn't like that drink and decised she liked the Ensure. That's her choice- I sent it, but it's her chooice to like it or not.

My boundary? I wasn't upset about the case of drinks but I also don't like waste and asked if she'd donate it to someone else who likes it. I realized that if she didn't choose the Ensure drink herself, she won't drink it. So I didn't send her more of them. She still had funds to buy them.

Your boundary, Methuen, is what you choose to do. I know you already visit and bring food and snacks but on your schedule. They weigh the residents regularly and if she starts losing too much weight, they will probably suggest extra drinks like Ensure. Otherwise, she has the food they provide for her there.

I blew up at my H last night. .  I was so mad!  I was shaking.  I yelled at the top of my lungs, cursed him, and got a lot of anger out. 

It all started at dinner, when he began to “tease me” about a political figure I like.  It’s usually a gateway to a long, circular argument where I become a punching bag, and he gets meaner and meaner, so I got up from the table. When he saw that I was uncomfortable, the “teasing” escalated. 

I BECAME FURIOUS.  All of my suppressed anger came out.

I told him,

“Stop it! I’m NOT AFRAID OF YOU ANYMORE.  YOU TRIED TO BREAK ME, but it DIDN’T WORK. I’M STILL STANDING.”

I was beyond angry.   I told him he’s verbally abusive.  When he tried to deny it, and he put it back on me, making me the bad guy, I yelled at the top of my lungs,

“STOP! SHUT UP! You will NOT put this back on ME!”

“NO MORE GASLIGHTING!”

He shut up. 

Maybe I went too far when I said even his kids hate him, but I went there.  I told him he has destroyed our marriage, just like he destroyed other relationships with his family, and HE is the cause  of my deep-seated anger and pain. 

I told him I’m entitled to my anger.  He wanted  to make it like I was doing something wrong, because I was having my feelings.  For ONE NIGHT, I finally fight back for like 45 minutes , and he tells me I’m  not entitled to my anger.     He threatened to leave, because of the “terrible” way I was behaving. I didn’t care.

I said,

“YOU DID THIS! You’re the reason why I’m so angry! I’ve suppressed my feelings long enough. I can’t do it anymore.”

And I can’t.

I think since he has been peaceful at home for about  40 days now, I’ve had time to think about how cruel he’s been, and it all came pouring out. 

As I screamed at him, he made jokes. He played with his iPad. He was  accountable for none of it. .  He claimed he didn’t know what I was talking about.  There was nothing he could say to make me feel any lower than he’s made me feel in the past few years. The whole time I argued, he to invalidate my feelings.  Again, I told him the gaslighting wouldn’t work, and I was DONE with being a victim.

I am still angry beyond belief.  I mentioned how he’d been calm for the past 40 days or so, and it’s the reason why I’ve had time to think, instead of just being in survival mode.  He told me I was crazy, and that he hasn’t been different these past 40 days. 

I eventually shut up, and we both went to sleep.

I don’t know what today will bring.

I  don’t care what happens, as long as there is no violence.  I told him I’d get our co-op’s security team involved if he tried to put  his hands on me.   That made him angry.  I should’ve done it in the past, but I didn’t want to feel embarrassed.  Now, I would have no problem doing it. It’s self-care.

I’m DONE being abused by him. DONE. I just want to be able to fully be myself, in my own home. I am sick and tired of living with the enemy.  I almost told him to get out.
 

I cannot live in fear of him anymore. 

I don’t care about money, or the lack thereof.  I need peace.  I need freedom.  He’s had too much control over me. 

I need to get some legal advice.  I was going to wait until October, but now I will try to get an appointment with a lawyer  no later than next week. 

Thank God I have therapy today.

This is a lot.  I didn’t realize how much anger and pain I have inside.