thanks for all of the support guys, she is moving back in with me next week. she is showing a lot of good supportive thing to me. lets hope we can make it work this time

I meant seeing family with the older child - with or without the baby.

I am glad you are holding your ground on seeing your family with the baby. Even if it doesn't work out the way you want, IMHO, it is still progress and still better than agreeing to not see them. Your wife probably will react but - to not let this reaction change your conviction is to not reinforce that behavior.

This situation was long term with my mother and my father's family. I think this was due to her feeling threatened by the relationship.

Why is this- for one, BPD affects the most intimate relationships the most- that is with the spouse- so the fears, the irrational thinking, are going to be with the spouse. Next, I would say the children- when they get older and more individualized.

Logically, it makes no sense. A person can love their spouse and their siblings, parents, children but BPD thinking is emotional.

Your behavior is different with your sister than with your wife. This is natural. We grow up with siblings and have known them our whole lives. It's not romantic. In most cases, it's a secure attachment. We have a history of getting along with them, sometimes picking on each other as kids. If the sibling isn't disordered, we are relaxed around them, not walking on eggshells. If someone isn't disordered, they understand the nature of this kind of closeness and it's not a threat but it may elicit jealousy in a BPD spouse.

One of my BPD mother's fears was that people would "talk about her". She masked her BPD well but if someone was on to her- that person would feel like a threat to her. She saw people as being on her side or not her side and my father was expected to align with her "against" that person. It's Karpman triangle dynamics- she was in victim perspective and he was expected to be her rescuer against a common persecutor.

BPD mother's relationship with my father's family was strained from the beginning. Still, we were allowed to spend time with them when we were old enough to visit on our own. She didn't visit.

My BPD mother was more interested in her family, however, she was always very concerned about what they thought of her. One thing I noticed that they did was to praise her a lot. It seemed odd to me as they'd praise her for small things, but I think at some point they must have known that this suited her emotionally. Dad's family didn't do this. They weren't critical but were more modest and so didn't tend to do this.

I mention this to encourage you that- this is for the long run. It's not only a one time visit- it's a first step to having a boundary that you will see your family and let them see the kids. Even if it all blows up- it's still one step in what is a long term connection with them, not only for you but for your kids. I don't know if it's possible to change your wife's feelings about your sister but it might help if your sister is very nice to her- complimentary to her- even if your sister is hurt and angry at her or thinks she's disordered.

I assumed once my father had passed away, that BPD mother would have nothing to do with his family. At one point they had a family reunion. They didn't include her. She had refused to visit them so why would they? If invited- she wouldn't have attended. When she heard about it, she got angry. It didn't make sense. I asked her- why- you don't like them and she replied "they should have invited me anyway as your father's wife".

Later, at a milestone birthday of hers- she invited them. So, it's hard to make sense out of what she was feeling. I think she wanted them to recognize her position as my father's wife, and possibly have some kind of relationship with her, so perhaps knowing this will help your sister when relating to your wife. 

NotWendy,

Thanks so much for all of the advice and sharing.  It helps more than you know.

I do need to speak to a lawyer about elder care and Medicaid.  And I am concerned about keeping my assets. 

I think right now, I’m still working through living with him in a peaceful, respectful and courteous environment.  I’m also still adjusting to finally being back to my old self, instead of being a scared little mouse who was solely focused on surviving the wrath of a monster. 

Now that he’s no longer abusing, (probably because he’s afraid he will lose me) I’m actually healing.  I’m taking back my power.  I feel good, in my own home.  I can say whatever I want to say, without fear of retribution. I am no longer afraid of him.  I have no qualms about calling our security team in our co-op or calling the police, should he become a problem again.  I have resources. It’s a good feeling. 

I’m not quite ready to take the next steps, but I’m sure I’ll get there.  One day at a time.

Thanks again.

Jazz

I sincerely appreciate the responses I’ve received thus far. He has admitted he believes he has BPD which is why he sought the Ketamine treatments. And understand therapist may not say anything to someone for obvious reasons. Just feels odd it won’t be mentioned by the therapist if my husband says he has BPD and she is aware. Of course, at times he tells me he doesn’t think he had BPD and that I have just gaslit him our whole relationship.

It is interesting what you say about the BPD person being resistant to relationship solutions. Want to say I read that somewhere before and had forgotten. Need to see if it is I. One of the books I have read.

He feels he has been used this whole time because he makes a significant amount of money more than I make. He has repeatedly held that over my head, although he says he has not or has not intended to come across that way. But, he elevated my lifestyle and I can’t afford to pay half of what we pay each month. But, I don’t have to have the thing we have either. Ha! I was not raised in the lifestyle to which we have become accustomed. It’s nice but not necessary for me to love him. He goes between wanting to combine our money to separating everything mainly because of my two children. Which, he is the one who insisted we meet at a bank to close our joint account and me open a separate account. It wasn’t my decision. Everything I have read says to keep money separate with a BPD spouse. This is just one more saga in our relationship. Ha!

Thanks everyone for the insights. Super quick reply here.


Thanks for the heads up. This is one of the things I am worried about. Thinking about it though - the elder child needs to be picked up, so she can't stop me from leaving for that. If the baby needs me, I will have to take him with me - and then I'll go with both children.

As to why I haven't planned to go with them both to begin with, it's exactly to stop her from sabotaging. She has the baby, so going with the baby requires her to agree to hand him over - not going to happen. I'd love to bring both children but I have to start with something that might work.

The other thing I am increasingly worried is that she will try to pick S3 up before I do. Even if I make it there before her, if she's there at the gate telling our son not to go with me, that could very well turn ugly.

As for when to let her know, I tried to tell her yesterday. She wouldn't have it, literally was putting on shoes to dash out of the door if I uttered another word about my sister. I even prefaced the talk by sending the most important points as a message to her phone, but she refused to read it if it had anything to do with my sister. So yeah, not great. Now when I'll let her know depends on the baby's nap times today.

Wish me luck.

It is what it is.  I write that in the sense that no matter how gently and politely you dance around the issue, your spouse is denying you your parental authority.  You are Father as much as she is Mother.

Sadly, she's not respecting you as a person or father.  If your relatives were criminals or child abusers, she would have basis to step in as Mama Bear to protect the children.  But for her to unilaterally castigate one of your relatives on the basis of a personal disagreement years ago is no basis to obstruct the children from visits - with either you or she supervising - with the relatives.

Yet that scenario - using the kids as leverage and weapons for a parent's perceptions and grudges - is all too common with BPD spouses.

Considering that this is the Divorcing board, it is obvious you realize that could be in your future.  You - and we too - wish it weren't but we've seen other situations like yours.  When this sort of discord and unreasonable perceptions common to Borderline PD traits becomes persistent over time it may very well be just a matter of time before some incident occurs that precipitates the sudden end to the marriage.  Are you sufficiently prepared, especially legally, should that occur?

As I understand the legal system, no long-time court order will block you or the children from contact with either parent's relatives unless they are criminals or considered child abusers.  So if/when you do divorce no order should restrict you from allowing your children to have contact with your relatives during your parenting time just on her say so.  However, you're still together at this time and so that is a consideration only in case your future heads that way.

So be very concerned and prepared to legally protect yourself since you may get "framed for mischief".  Many here had that happen.  My ex tried that too, making numerous unsubstantiated allegations about me, particularly leaning toward child endangerment and child abuse.  Nothing came of them eventually but all the legal chaos that caused even gave my own lawyer pause and look at me sideways in the early days.  And as a female and a mother, the court gave her default custody and parenting in the initial temp orders.  I had two temp orders, one for the separation and one for the divorce.

I agree and did believe I was the reason for my BPD mother's issues. In my teen years she blamed me for them. I actually believed that when I went away to college, the issues between my parents would be resolved and they'd be happier.

This of course wasn't true but kids think what they think. It was later when a sibling confirmed that the issues didn't change when I went to college that I knew they didn't.

But this doesn't mean walking on eggshells and not having boundaries to avoid the kids seeing the meltowns is the correct thing to do. Kids learn from their parents' behavior. Both parents are role models. My father, being the more stable one was the example I followed but he was also her enabler and those were the behaviors I perceived as normal but later had to work on. 

What you want to role model is that people are allowed to have boundaries and allowed to say no. We saw the meltdowns regardless. So trying to prevent them by walking on eggshells doesn't do that entirely.

Sometimes my BPD mother would go to a nearby beauty salon/spa that she liked. That gave Dad some time to himself.

It was important for my mother to feel people were paying attention to her. If Dad needed to get something done in the house, without distraction, the beauty spa was an option.

Later, in her elder years, we needed to move BPD mother to her assisted living and get her house cleared for sale. This whole effort was for her. The house needed to be sold and whatever profit was gained from it was to be put in her bank account. Relatives came to help me do the job.

But even though BPD mother was going to be the beneficiary of this effort- this wasn't visible to her so she didn't perceive it. We promised to meet her later for dinner and she agreed to meet us later,  but to her, being in her room at the assisted living while her family was doing something together was not going to work. So in the middle of moving she decides she's going to come to the house. She was visiting and chatting and nobody was able to get the job done. So some of her family went to the kitchen with her to have coffee, while I was able to pack things up. Their attention was focused on her while I and a few others were able to focus in the job at hand.

Mentioning this to add another consideration to the leaving your wife alone with the baby while you are paying attention to your sister, having a nice restaurant meal without her could be problematic. She may need to have some situation where attention is on her and she's not missing out. While my BPD mother was able bodied for most of her elder years and didn't need a caretaker in the physical sense, her emotional needs were greater- even in her younger years. It was similar to a young child who, if parents are on the phone or paying attention to something/someone else, might act up to get attention unless something is planned for them to do too.

If this plan doesn't work out, consider an alternative where your wife is getting attention and feeling special. The spa day is a great idea if she likes that, an evening out with her girlfriends. Rather than make it something you want to do without her- make it something special for her- "I'll watch the kids while you get a much deserved break" is more appealing.

Hi Pook,

Actually, in the past, I was always kind, respectful, and loving.  Now, after all the abuse, I no longer love him. Nevertheless, after my one big blowout,  I’ve continued to be my kind, gentle, courteous, thoughtful, and respectful self. I just don’t love him anymore.  And I’ve set firm boundaries — That’s why he’s walking on eggshells.  It just means I’m not going to put up with any more abuse — It doesn’t mean I’m being mean and unpleasant. 

I think it’s on him if he wants to try to rekindle what we had years ago.  Unfortunately, I don’t see it happening. He’s just putting up with not being able to abuse me anymore.  I can tell.  It’s the narcissist in him.  It’s all about him. He’s not going to make any romantic overtures, because I’m the “bad guy.”  I had he nerve to set boundaries.   If I need more from the relationship, I’m the one who needs to make overtures.  It’s not going to happen — not after all of those years of abuse, with me doing exactly that — making overtures, only to be hurt over and over again.  So that’s where we are. 

I do appreciate the advice though.  I wish we could himback to the way we were. But I don’t see him getting any better. 

Jazz