Indeed this is what I call "nuclear" escalation.  And you're right--it's a bully move.  Since the pwBPD in my life is a stepdaughter and not a spouse, she'd threaten suicide, not divorce, to get her way.  But I think it's the same sort of thing--a dire threat.  Maybe the threat is sometimes a bluff, sometimes a wish fulfillment, and sometimes serious.  I think in practice, it can be a mix of all these things, depending on the mood of the moment.  Maybe she's capable of following through, and maybe she's not.  I'd say if she's highly dysfunctional, actually following through a multi-step process like a divorce--hiring an attorney, finding somewhere else to live, actually moving out and living on her own--might seem implausible or impossible for some.  In other words, the practical realities of planning and execution might get in her way, because she's simply too reliant on others for day-to-day functioning.  But not all pwBPD are dysfunctional.

To get back to the spirit of the original poster's question, of whether some people seem predisposed to attract pwBPD, and are they more inclined to tolerate bullying and abuse more than others?  I just don't know if there's a personality type that is predisposed to that.  But I definitely think that pwBPD can "mask" their bullying tendencies when they want to, for example when they're in the beginning of a romantic relationship.  I'd say the masking isn't "intentional" or malevolent, but rather related to the general bliss of falling in love at first, with an emphasis on FALLING--a sudden, intense and almost carefree state.  I could see that many people would adore falling in love, succumbing to the most powerful force in the universe.  Yet for me, I think I wouldn't want to completely "lose myself" (lose control), just for love.  I guess for me, love is less about falling and more about growing.  I see love as starting out small, and with nurturing and care, growing into something bigger.  Maybe I'm just wired that way.

Finally, when it comes for tolerance of bullying and abuse, I think the question might hinge on options.  Some people might feel trapped (i.e. without options)--because of religious beliefs, financial constraints, age, love, employment situation, social status, kids, whatever.  But I happen to think that mindset is also important.  A "scarcity" mindset is sort of a fear-based mindset that resources like money, time, love, success are limited and fixed.  I think that many people who grew up amid scarcity tend to have a scarcity mindset.  But a "growth" mindset is basically the opposite, based on confidence.  I think that having a growth mindset creates options, and with more choices, there's typically a path to something better, whatever that might look like.

Wow I'm rambling today.

It does come as a huge relief when we finally realise that our partner acted the same way with everyone as they did with us. It's quite scary how we know deep inside that we're decent people who have been loving and caring, but we've been made to feel we're somehow the bad guys.

I think even the strongest of us might still have a little self-doubt at times and BPD - from a skilled manipulator - plays upon this massively. We ignore so many red flags too but that's how a BPD relationship can bewitch you, at least in the early stages.


A pity there wasn't an indicator light that comes on when a BPD is acting up, saying 'This is their illness doing this' or 'They know exactly what they're doing'.

... my money would be on the latter statement most of the time.

It may appear the children ignore the rants and rages - they are used to it - but they truly are impacted.  This is "normal" for them, all they know in their childhood.  Well, except for the time they do have with you.

One concern is telling your spouse too soon, before you have your plans finalized and secure, well, as secure as you can make it.  It gives him opportunity to sabotage and time to wear your determination down.

Be prepared that if it's worse than you hope for then you have an alternate place you can stay until you depart.

As others suggested, have your friends nearby for support and/or rescue.  Don't tell them you'll call them when your encounter is done.  That may be a bit late.  Ask them to call you or, better, show up so any negative reaction, whatever it is, is cut short.

Well, my daughter was relatively young when we got divorced; we fought around her, for sure (BPDxw had no qualms about exploding in front of family), but divorce didn't really come up in such instances.  Later in our marriage, as between her and I, BPDxw would threaten it as a bully move to end arguments.  For example, I'd say "My parents want to come visit for a weekend" and she'd pick a fight over that request and then say if I didn't like it, I should just divorce her. 

I don't know what her thinking was; I said to her a few times "If the only option you're giving me is divorce, what do you think is going to happen?"  That would enrage her more.  She didn't actually want divorce, and when I had moved out and filed, she begged me to reconsider and said she couldn't believe it was really happening.  I guess when making those threats, she felt like I wouldn't actually do it, or she could prevent it by seizing all our assets so I couldn't hire an attorney (which she did try to do on the eve of our final split).  Or maybe it just seemed to be not a "final" break.  In her own country her parents were divorced, but had done so only to shield assets from the people her father owed money to, and they still lived together (and fought constantly). 

I assume your mom felt the same way when threatening divorce: it was just another step up the escalation ladder, and not a real thing that could happen to her.  The fallout from it, the fear it provoked in her family, was not something she was concerned about, and maybe even would approve of, since fear meant it was an effective threat.

When I say I wish other people had been more supportive of a move to divorce, I'm thinking of a few occasions earlier in our marriage when family members saw her blow up and suggested to me that I should consider my outs; that our marriage might not work.  I did speak to a friend-of-a-friend who is an attorney, and he said she would "take me to the cleaners" which was nonsense (I've since learned he is not a very competent attorney).  So I felt like divorce wasn't an option at the time, or would be so ruinous that trying to make it work despite feeling in my gut that it was futile, was the better outcome.  I wish family members could've directed me to formally go speak with an actual family law attorney & given me some practical guidance on how I could manage it.  I think, if my daughter is ever in my same shoes, I'd be more proactive with her, so she knows how divorce works, and that she can count on me for support if she needs to leave someone.

It's a tough decision for sure, when your biggest support network is your family community & village, and they enable it. 

And these days, at least here in the States, the larger society you used to be able to flee to and re-establish yourself in is so predatory and exploitative that there's not an easy out.  Most 20-somethings can't just go get a job in the city, afford their own apartment and car (b/c you need the latter in most of the country to get around and go to work). 

oh my goodness, your story resonates with my ONGOING (8 years of this!) my granddaughter's mother is of NO relation to me (my son had a "fling"...my son no longer SEES his daughter, nor does he speak to my family, as we are still very much involved with his daughter, despite his DEMAND we go no contact (this was 8 years ago); the Mom states she has BPD (I have no proof of this, as her mother does not know (?) let me just say, she goes from hot to cold in MINUTES....the other day, I was taking the younger child (I refer to all of her 4 children as Gemma & consider them my grandchildren) and I arrived 7 minutes later than I said....the absolute gates of H opened, with her screaming, "you can take her to softball (1/2 hour from her house, with 3 of the children) but after this "get out of my life" (it makes me so sad that the kids hear this....they totally ignore it/her) it was so stressful my hands were shaking....I cannot even count how many times she has done something like this or not "allowed" me to see the kids, etc. (the longest absence was 3 weeks....I was very sad, but, toughed that one out...she eventually apologized....every time I see her phone number, if I am not scheduled to see the kids, my heart stops (she calls me many times a day) I think the kids act out (because of her) sometimes, I have to really dig deep to see them (which makes me feel guilty), you have my utmost sympathy; I think it is horrible for these parents to use their children as pawns....I very much hope your situation improves

This is what it appeared to happen with my father.

I think anyone in his situation would have felt like that. When BPD mother wanted something, she would escalate until it was impossible to resist. Rather than to go through that, it seemed better in the short run to just give in, and he did.

If appeasement improved the relationship, I would be all for it, but it didn't improve the relationship or my mother's BPD, and it took an emotional toll on my father, even if it did sometimes bring a brief momentary reprieve in her emotional distress. From what I have seen, I don't think appeasement is a solution, although it's a personal choice for each person to make.

To either stay in such a relationship or divorce is a complicated and difficult decision. I don't think anyone on this board considers divorce lightly. It's heavy and seriously thought about.  I also think we differ culturally, and religiously over that decision, and it's a very personal choice. Personally, I don't think someone is required to stay in an emotionally, verbally, or physically abusive relationship, or where their own sense of who they are can not co-exist with their partner. I think the posters here who have gone in that direction have done so after considerable effort has been made to avoid it, and did so because they believe it was their only better choice between two difficult ones. I don't blame anyone for choosing that, or for staying.

While you say you would have appreciated family saying something sooner about it and being supportive in that decision, my experience was different. BPD mother threatened divorce frequently. It scared me as a child. By the time we were teens, having seen the dynamics, the issues, and heard her say this- we thought "then just do it already". Truly, if that would have been the issue and she would be happier, then just do it. We all know now that this wasn't the problem, it was her own internal distress being projected, but we didn't then.

By contrast, Dad rarely vented, but when we were older, he'd reach a point where he had had enough and would say something. However, if I said something in agreement, shortly after this, he'd turn on me, angry for suggesting it, and bond with my mother. BPD mother also would flip from raging to that "good" persona. They'd be acting affectionate with each other. It fit Karpman triangle dynamics.

I saw that emotional bottomless pit of hers. It was pitifult. None of us wanted to see her emotionally suffer and we did what we could to help, but the pit was bigger than anyone could fill.

This is kind of what I’m dealing with at the moment. I’ve written about the current situation in my own thread.

As for the foo dynamics it’s a little easier in my case. My ex and I grew up in the same village, and her family go back many generations from that village. But our families generations are easier to look at because my wife had our first child at 19. Her mother had her at 19 and her mother had her at 18 so we had a 56 year old great grandmother in the family. That great grandmother had mental issues and was sectioned a few times, although she was from the side of my wife’s family that were not from the village. Her uncaring nature passed down to my ex’s mother, less in an uncaring way but it made her very strict with my ex when she was growing up, and she never hugged or kissed her children and never ever told them she loves them.

The problems at the moment are with my ex’s paternal side of the family, the side that has been in the village for generations. Ex’s cousin is not a very good character. I grew up with him and he was always lying, stealing, cheating on all his girlfriends. Then drug abuse, stealing from his family, then heroin addiction, then drug running and now currently keeping a low profile because he has drug dealers after him for a seriously large debt.
But his family have always given him a free pass. Brush it under the carpet and it’s not happening.

Now the same thing is happening with my ex. Drug addiction, lying cheating and now involving our kids asking them to go and get drugs for people. The family know I am angry. Not just the fact she asked our son to go and get drugs, the fact that when both I and her sister confronted her about it she lied, tried to make out my son was drink driving, taking drugs and saying it wasn’t her that asked him to get drugs, so throwing her own child under the bus to try and get out of it. She has rang him crying on the phone when he told her it was wrong of her to ask him to do that. She knows he is not mentally strong at the moment as he tried driving into a tree a little while ago because of his mental state. And her side of the family, well they just say stop being angry and forget about it, because that is the dynamic of that family. Their excuse, well they are adults. They won’t say anything because they are scared they will push her away and she will avoid them, because that is what she does, she can’t own her actions she either avoids them or blames someone else and denies it.

So they walk on eggshells around her, just as I did when I was in the relationship with her. Just like they have done with her cousin, but it hasn’t worked with him, and it won’t work with her.

...

From your descriptions of the situation, it sounds like he was thoroughly beaten down by her emotionally and verbally.  I think as men we're told that women are the "fairer sex" and we need to protect them, cherish them, etc. and in return they're there for us.  It can be quite jarring to discover you've got one that's not what was "advertised," and is instead intensely manipulative and focused entirely on her own needs at your (and everyone else in the family's) detriment.  and perhaps the more troubling part, how willing she is to escalate the behavior - up to and including public scenes, false allegations, etc. I could see a lot of guys just shut down at that point, and think "I'm out of ideas here."  If divorce is not an option for them, for whatever reason, there's really no other choice, unless one is  also willing to drop your own standards and fight fire with fire (and that's hard to do if you've been "raised right" and have a sense of shame!).

I at least had marital, and personal counseling to reach out to for support, and the internet for help.  I like to think I would have divorced eventually, maybe even around the same time I did, even without the internet, but certainly understanding the nature of BPD (or at least behavioral disorders, regardless of what BPDxw's issue was, since she was undiagnosed as far as I know) that it wasn't anything I was doing or had done that was causing the problem made it easier to walk away.  I had stopped thinking the situation was manageable if I could just do something to fix it by that point.  At the time of our last, abortive marital counseling sessions, which were a few months before the final break, I remember telling myself that if she did have a behavioral disorder as I was convinced, the counseling would be pointless, and I was only doing it for myself, so I could say I truly did all I could to anyone who asked.  Seems kinda absurd now, but I was still thinking like that. 

Some family members later confided in me (after I divorced) that they felt like divorce was the only option for me, after seeing BPDxw's behavior, and wanted me to get out, but didn't say anything because they didn't want to live with the idea that they caused me to get divorced.  I would not have blamed them though, I would've appreciated them giving me an extra nudge.  And probably what I needed more than anything else was a show of some financial support that they'd be there for me if I needed a couple months of living expenses to get over the hump.  Earlier in my career, it would've been difficult for me to maintain a home & pay child support and alimony, on top of the legal fees from a divorce.

right.  throwing something in a bottomless pit doesn't fill the bottomless pit. 

too many people get stuck in that endless loop, as by nature they trust that someone making a request genuinely wants what they're asking for.