Thank you ForeverDad!


I think this is really my trigger.  I empathized with the wife, feeling I have tried everything and fearing being blamed. I definitely have to work on accepting that.


It is a good reminder to me to not let one bad experience taint my perception of all. I definitely will explore others.


Thank you!  I have almost no knowledge of the divorce process and all of these insights are helpful!  I’m mainly learning that no matter the sequence or type of professional I engage, I need to feel they will have my interests, or at the very least remain neutral. So more interviews to come!

I wonder why you would want to share this- and how you think it might help?

Sharing with friends and family may help you feel supported, but it may not be as helpful to helping you to change. Friends and family may "take your side" but then, not point out your own behaviors that may be contributing to the dynamics. Venting to well meaning friends can help you feel supported but also keep you in the same pattern.

Or, they may not understand why you stay in this situation and tell you to leave- which is a well meaning but naive approach to these relationships. There's a reason we don't post run messages on this board- because, it's not that simple. These are complex situations and each person needs to arrive at their own choice over that.

I know from my own experience how "taking one side" is a form of Karpman triangle dynamics and risks both of them "siding" against me. In addition, sharing about BPD mother was against the "unspoken" rule to not say anything and not result in anything good. BPD mother perceived people as being on her side or not her side. My father would then be in the position to have to choose "her side" against them. Sharing with friends and family is not a guarantee of confidentiality. Your wife would see this as a betrayal.

Sharing with a counselor or Al Anon sponsor- they may not always take your side- they may turn the mirror on your behavior- because- that is the only behavior you can change. From this, real change might happen.

There was a time when my BPD mother "painted me black" to some of her family. I thought about "showing them the truth" but then it would put them in a compromised position- who to believe? PwBPD can act differently with peope outside the immediate family. Also, they may not want to know this information, they may want to stay neutral. It's also possible TMI. Some things I don't want to share.

It's also possibly triangulation- and doesn't focus on the main issue- your relationship with your wife and her behavior- and your part in it. Venting may help you feel better in the moment but it may also serve to keep you in the same situation.

IMHO, the best "friend" you could share to in your situation, in addition to your counselor,  would be an Al Anon sponsor, because, when you discuss an issue with your wife- they are going to turn the mirror on you, discuss what actions you can take to make changes in your part in this. They may not know all about BPD but they do know about alcohol use and enabling and the dynamics are the same for both.

To be clear, my wife doesn't try to stop me from meeting them. In practice she makes it a bit more of a hurdle than I think it should be, and I feel so bad about not being able to bring the children with me that I find it painful to meet them alone, so I mostly don't. Which adds to the self loathing...


You are reading it right, there's no reality-based reason to think the children would be harmed by interactions with my relatives. In her reality, it is a different case.

Forcing this issue seems to require one of two things. Either I argue that I have the right to take the children because she is delusional. Or that I ignore arguing and the question of who's grasp of reality is the sounder one, and just declare that I have the right to have my way and walk over her in this.

I don't expect any positive outcome from telling anyone they are delusional, especially when she goes out of her way to deny there could be anything wrong with her.

So it seems I'd need to stand firm in the knowledge that I know better, act accordingly, and ignore her twisted thinking. The thing is, that requires me to take away her agency to keep her children safe to the best of her ability. That's a horrible thing to do to a parent.


Whatever she can, I think. I can imagine her standing in front of the door to stop us from leaving, hiding the car keys, holding our son's hand so I can't carry him out, forbidding me using the car (it's not mine), screaming at me so that if I manage to leave, it's with a terrified crying toddler who wants to go back to mommy... Who knows what would actually happen.

Also, probably, making my life as much a miserable hell as possible for the week or two afterwards as a promise of what will always happen if I ever dare to do it again, and making it clear to our son that I did a horrible thing in taking him, and that it's an awful thing to do to go and visit those people and he shouldn't go along with it.


Mostly it's the children getting caught in the middle that horrifies me. By now I can handle all sorts of things directed at me... And if she breaks down completely and ends up in psychiatric care, that might even do some good, who knows... But involving the children, now that's something else.

Oh, and things can always get worse.

Of all the stories I've heard about someone telling someone else that they could have a mental illness (myself included), none of them ended favorably.  In many of those stories, it was the last conversation the two people had.

Why?  Because you're telling someone that there's something seriously wrong with them.  And all they tend to hear is, "You think I'm crazy!"

If you have suspicions of BPD, then talk to your doctor or a family therapist about it.  Get professional advice on how to proceed, and if they believe there's BPD there then they can share that diagnosis in a controlled environment.  Simply put, you're not qualified to have that conversation and it will completely backfire on you.

As CC suggested, getting your daughter into therapy is an excellent first step.  She'll build a relationship with that therapist and trust their opinion.  A diagnosis would be created over time and it will be presented without judgement or scorn.  That's always the best path and you can present it as something to help your kid with depression, anxiety, or whatever you want to say.

To be clear, this isn't about porn...it's about the ability to forgive.

If I looked back at every single thing my ex-wife did to me over our marriage and listed it all out here, people would think she's a monster.  Yet we could do that with anyone here...list out the worst things they did over the last decade...and they'd be perceived as horrible people.

I always forgave my BPD ex and in most cases, I wouldn't even remember it a month later.  But she was keeping tabs on my "sins" and never actually let any of it go.

It sounds like you have to have an honest conversation- can she forgive you or not?  You can't live under eternal judgement so she must decide what the next steps are going to be.  Nobody should live under that kind of double-standard though; your wife has done lousy things in the past as well (because we all have, every single one of us despite our best intentions).

Hello and welcome to the family.  CC43 is correct, just from your title, I pretty much guessed your story and how it was playing out.  It's incredibly sad that these relationships all devolve in the same way consistently.  Your story is my story as well.

I think you're correct in giving your kid some space and allowing her to figure this out on her own.  The new boyfriend likely caused this newest rift...not that he did anything wrong, but because he's currently her favorite person that can do no wrong.  So she's casting out everyone she doesn't need to focus on this new relationship.

It's incredibly unfair, but that's BPD in a nutshell.  Give this some time and focus on your own mental health as much as possible.  It's terrible not being able to see the grandkids but that's just for right now.

Hello and welcome to the family.  I completely agree with Sancho and experienced many of the same things with my BPD daughter.

I just wanted to re-emphasize that your mental health should always come first.  Emotional turmoil makes that physical chronic pain even worse, which you already know from living it.  There has to be healthy boundaries in your home so the abusive behavior stops (or she leaves).

I used to tell my BPD daughter, "I love you and you can stay at home as long as you want, but there are a few rules that must be followed.  Clean up after yourself and treat others with kindness and respect."

If she didn't follow the two rules, then I would tell her that it's time for her to leave...but I would make it plainly obvious that she's leaving because it's her choice.  She can follow the rules and stay, or not follow the rules and go live life on her own terms.  I'd love her no matter what she decided, but she had to clearly choose- live with dad and follow two simple rules, or leave and make the rules herself.

My kid left multiple times, and came back multiple times.  That's fine, it was all her choice.  But at the same time, I also got to choose for myself and my choice was that anyone living in my home would follow two rules.

It took several years but my kid finally "got it".  I wasn't asking anything outrageous and my two rules were so much easier than the alternatives in the world.

I hope that helps!

I could be way off here, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Raising a kid is tough, but it's so much harder today because of electronics and their instant connection to the outside world.  Everything good and everything horrible is only a few clicks away.

With my kids (one BPD), I was the tough parent while my ex wife (also BPD) couldn't imagine being the bad guy and having the kids mad at her.  She always caved because the BPD kid would punish her ever harder. 

An example, "We're not going to McDonalds because you didn't clean up your room."  So the BPD kid rants and terrorizes for two hours and BPD mom says to get it the car to get McDonalds so the BPD kid will leave her alone.

This obviously caused chaos in our home and taught bad behavior is rewarded, so I had to be even more of a strict parent 99% of the time.

Was it right for me to have to be the jerk?  No.  But the kids needed it regardless and I don't regret it...even when the mom would bad-mouth to me to the kids behind my back.

Here's the thing though, it takes a village to raise a child and mom/dad have to be on the same page.  One can be the "bad cop" or both can be, that part doesn't really matter.  What does matter is being on the same page and supporting one another.

If your wife said to limit the cell phone time, but wants you to be the bad guy for delivering the news, then she's not co-parenting in a fair way.  It can work that way, exactly like it did in my situation, but then you get those "throwing me under the bus" type of comments that are completely unfair.  Isn't your wife throwing you under the bus by asking you to enforce something that she won't enforce on her own?  It's a two-way street.

What helped me was focusing on the end goal, which was raising a balanced child.  So I never cared about being the tough parent if that's what had to happen, and if my wife objected then I found it really easy to say, "Okay, I'm sorry if that upset you...maybe you should handle it directly next time so there's no misunderstandings." 

In those situations though, she'd state what she believed was right, and when the child objected (the BPD kid or the other one), she'd say, "Well, go ask your father and see what he thinks."  I'd always try to back mom's opinion but it wasn't perceived that way.

My point here is simple; you're going to hurt your wife's feelings from time to time, no matter how noble your efforts.  And the reason why is also simple; she's mentally ill and takes things out of context from time to time.

I hope that helps!

Hopefully others have some recommendations, since I couldn't find any good ones with a search.  There was one I loved years ago but I can't find it.  Ideally though, you should be able to explain what BPD is in a few sentences- I think that's something that all of us have to figure out. 

I generally say, "BPD is a condition where someone relies heavily on emotions when they become upset, and it can send them spiraling through worst-case scenarios in their mind.  It causes them a lot of external pain and it's easy for them to see the world through a warped viewpoint that's not necessarily true, especially when it comes to relationships with those they're closest to."

At the same time though, you have to remember what you're trying to convey here.  It's not to say, "My spouse is crazy and impossible to deal with sometimes."  Because if that's how it comes across, then your spouse is going to pick up on those vibes and assume you told others the worst.  So I'd only be sharing this with people that have to know and understand.

I also understand that you want others to be able to relate to your experiences, but remember that's not a practical goal.  Survivors of serious trauma often feel like nobody can understand them and in a way, that's because others really can't unless they've walked a mile in your shoes. 

For example, think about someone that was in the World Trade Center on 9/11...I can't imagine what they experienced or how it affects them today.  That's why sites like BPD Family exist, it's one of the few places where we can find peer support and share our stories.

My (working to become my ex) wife with uBPD and I had a text... discussion... this evening, involving me getting my youngest off electronics for the evening. She told me to not throw her under the bus about telling him it was time to be done. (For context, I have had a past history of accidentally throwing her under the bus, never on purpose, and I have made significant progress in this regards). I asked her to give me some credit, and since texting loses tone of voice I added a smiley at the end.

Her response: "I am, <hurt emoji>".

I expressed my hurt at that. She expressed her hurt over having thrown her under the bus in the past and the betrayal of that, and how it takes awhile to regain trust. She also said I should think about why I'm feeling upset about this.

I told her I was pausing the conversation so I could think about what she said and see things from her perspective; I also asked her to try to think about my perspective, to which she responded "I do think about yours."

After thinking about it, I came back to the conversation and validated her feelings about having been blamed for things, and how it would take a long time to earn back that trust. I then expressed my own feelings that while she says she thinks about my perspective, she doesn't do anything about what she thinks about; that she says she gives me credit for my progress but she doesn't actually do so. I told her I didn't want to talk about it right now because I had a lot of feelings to sort through. Part of those feelings is reconciling the contradiction between understanding it can take a long time to rebuild trust and the desire for recognition for the progress I -have- made.

I need a reality check here, someone to tell me straight if I'm making excuses, or if I have a right to my feelings, or what.

Thanks in advance.